From: "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" To: "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil" File: "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG0102D" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:15:09 -0600 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: First Fight 2/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol, Just read part 2 and am thoroughly enjoying this. keep it coming quickly merry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:22:26 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christy wrote: > However, that doesn't explain why they waited until they were married. Lois > didn't have a moral objection to pre-marital sex (unless she was experiencing > a so-called second virginity) and Clark didn't want to sleep with anyone > without sharing his secret. So what was stopping them after Lois knew the > truth? (I'm not saying that I find it out of character for them to sleep > together before marriage; I'm just wondering what made them decide to wait... > besides TPTB ;) Christy, I was about to ask this very question to the list, because it's been bugging me for some time. :) So thanks for bringing it up. What bothers me most about this is that Lois wanted to wait till her wedding night to make love with Luthor, and I think the consensus about that is that it was a subconscious sign that she didn't really love him, and was scared to jump over that intimacy threshold. But Clark was different. With Clark, she was *sure* she was in love, that he wouldn't betray her. He didn't pressure her into marriage like Lex did; actually, *she* ended up proposing to him in UW. I, too, was convinced they'd already made love, in WWW, or later in WHALTTA, or they would have in Chip Off the Old Clark or SuperMann if Jimmy hadn't interrupted. And I was completely sure they'd done it in BGDF. So yes, I was very surprised they waited. Well, not to mention that in Chip Off the Old Clark, that line where Clark says to his mother that he has dated was hinting that he'd done a little more than dating, if he had a kid, and Clark seemed rather shocked that his mother would say his having a child was completely impossible, as if she'd ruled out the possibility of him having ever made love (unless Clark thought kids are made by kissing, but I doubt that ). I understand that he wanted to wait for the right person, and even that he wanted her to know his secret, but that's exactly what he had with Lois. They were both consenting adults, very much in love, and the series never mentioned them being particularly religious, or having whatever kind of reason to wait for their wedding night. I discussed it with a friend last night and she told me that she thought it was due to Lois's fear to disappoint Clark, but in any case, they *would* have got to that point, since they were getting married, and actually, I think having their first time happen during the wedding night could just put more pressure on them. I guess that what really surprises me, like I said, is the fact that Lois wanted to wait with Luthor *and* with Clark, in two very different situations. So why did they wait (besides the TBTP reason )? What do you guys think? Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:18:37 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? In-Reply-To: <034601c09ca8$ee158380$cd7e9ec2@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Helene wrote: >They were both consenting adults, very much in love, and the series never >mentioned them being particularly religious, or having whatever kind of >reason to wait for their wedding night. I know many of you might disagree with me on this one, but I'll say it anyway. Think of Wendy's "Curtain Twitchers." Of Clark's assertion in SL&V that Superman can't lie. Clark may be the real man and Superman merely the disguise, but there's still a "larger truth": Superman should be a role model: in integrity, honesty, and yes, morality. Sheila Harper once commented on the mbs (and I know I told her at the time how much I liked the insight) that writers who concentrate solely on Clark, or solely on Superman, are missing the point. LnC is about them both - Kal-El of Earth, so to speak. (Okay, Sheila didn't say that. That's how I think of it. ) In that vein, I can't separate Clark's morality from that of Superman's. Wendy wrote in "Curtain Twitchers" of Clark's frustration that people think Superman ought to be sexless. Like Clark and Lois, I don't agree with that; but I *do* feel that Clark should take the high ground. It doesn't matter if it's socially acceptable nowadays (and I assure you, in my circles it's not!) to have a pre-marital relationship; as long as there are large numbers out there that feel otherwise, then Superman -- and, by extension, Clark -- should not have a relationship outside marriage. I must comment, though, that this is drifting way off the topic of the envelope. Even happily married, I don't want to read excessive details of LnC's active relationship. I'm a strong believer in closing the bedroom door. :) Hazel _______ "Lots of little Bigwigs, Hazel! Think of that, and tremble!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:24:27 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christy asked: > I'm also not sure what you mean by Clark's "attitude in Chip off the Old > Clark." Are you talking about what he says to Martha and Jonathan when they > suggest that his having an illegitimate child is preposterous? I have to say > that I believed Clark's response was more rooted in embarrassment and feeling > insulted that his parents don't realize that he *could* be having sex, than > in communicating his true beliefs about premarital sex. I interpreted his response as being hurt/embarrassed that his parents assumed he'd never had sex (of course, this was before VD in which we discovered that he *hadn't*). Thus, to me, this indicated that he certainly had no moral objections to having sex before marriage; if his inclination was to wait until marriage, why not indicate that? He seemed anxious to affirm his manhood, let's say. ;) Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:29:19 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hazel wrote: > Think of Wendy's "Curtain Twitchers." Of Clark's assertion in SL&V that > Superman can't lie. Clark may be the real man and Superman merely the > disguise, but there's still a "larger truth": Superman should be a role > model: in integrity, honesty, and yes, morality. Hazel, I do respect your opinion about this, but all religious beliefs apart, I don't see what's not moral about making love before marriage. If it's part of some religious beliefs (and I know it is), fine, and I completely respect those who do follow such a rule because of their religion, or because of whatever reason they want. :) I do seem to have a different view about morality, however, considering I'm agnostic yet I don't consider myself as an immoral being. ;) To me, morality starts with honesty, a real will to do the good, a true respect of people and of laws. However, I personally don't see lovemaking as something immoral when it's between two consenting adults, married or not. *Especially* when these adults are in a committed relationship based on love. Anyway, I do no wish to go into a religious debate here, since this isn't the place to do so, and that wasn't my goal at all in asking this question, especially since like I said, neither Lois nor Clark showed any specific attachment to a religion of any kind. So why did they wait? About Curtain Twitchers, I can't speak for Wendy, but I visibly understood her story in another way than you did. To me, Lois and Clark both laughed about the fact some people might think Superman was a eunuque or something. , but they didn't exactly approve, except that Lois thought she'd found a way to keep the groupies' hands off her husband's body . Actually, come to think of it, even if Clark wanted to wait because of Superman's morality, I wouldn't understand either. I know they're the same people, but Clark was always careful to keep both identities very separate. And if he'd made love with Lois, I don't think he'd have printed it in the Planet or something . All right, it would still mean he had, and Clark might see that as a lie, but I think he kept his Clark and Superman persona separate enough, especially after his marriage to Lois: Clark was married, Superman was single. Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:04:51 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hazel wrote: > Think of Wendy's "Curtain Twitchers." Of Clark's assertion in SL&V that > Superman can't lie. Clark may be the real man and Superman merely the > disguise, but there's still a "larger truth": Superman should be a role > model: in integrity, honesty, and yes, morality. > > [snip]It doesn't matter if it's socially acceptable nowadays (and I > assure you, in my circles it's not!) to have a pre-marital relationship; as > long as there are large numbers out there that feel otherwise, then > Superman -- and, by extension, Clark -- should not have a relationship > outside marriage. Yes, I do disagree with you. For instance, whose moral standards should Superman/Clark agree with? If there are large numbers who believe that homosexuality is wrong and immoral, as there seems to be, should Clark/Superman have to agree with them? If there are large numbers who believe that blacks are less intelligent than whites, should he have to support that? (some see their racism as religious, in that they believe God actually created greater and lesser humans). Many people believe the death penalty is a moral and just punishment, as well as being the law of the land. My interpretation of Clark/Superman is that he regrets it exists. And *he* won't kill, even where large numbers of people think he should. So it does come down to a question of 'whose morality', and I think pre-marital sex is far more of an individual choice when it comes to morality than is killing or lying, for instance. As I understand it in the series, for Clark and Lois it was *their* choice not to sleep together before they were married, and they certainly never gave the impression that it had anything to do with anyone's moral standards; just their own wish. As to *why* they made that choice, that's another matter, and I'll separate out my opinion on that into another post, so as not to confuse the issue. ;) Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:42:14 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hazel wrote: but I *do* feel that Clark should take the high > ground. It doesn't matter if it's socially acceptable nowadays (and I > assure you, in my circles it's not!) to have a pre-marital relationship; as > long as there are large numbers out there that feel otherwise, then > Superman -- and, by extension, Clark -- should not have a relationship > outside marriage. > Sorry, Hazel, but I have to add my disagreement here. This implies that only one viewpoint on this subject IS the moral high ground. I don't believe that's true. Or that it should be the case. Some time ago, on irc, (and do NOT ask me how the subjec arose because I was multi tasking at the time and have no idea ) someone mentioned that in some part of the world - I think it was Turkey but don't quote me - it is considered extremely unlucky for a woman to be a virgin on her wedding night. The custom is for her to visit a man who is paid to ensure that she is not. These men are highly regarded within the community and this is what they do for a living. I suspect that these people do not think they are any less moral than anyone who believes that pre-marital sex is a sin. I think they'd probably be highly offended if the suggestion was made to them. Secondly, I don't even believe that large numbers believe it's a sin either. There certainly isn't anything like large numbers on that side of the divide in the US. Or in the UK. But the US is where Clark/Superman resides so by default the majority should be the US majority I would postulate. I do think that this question is down more to individiual personal beliefs than to any quantifiable facts. There is no right and wrong here. Just what each culture and each individual deems right for them. I don't think any of us have the right to judge that, whatever side of the divide we are on. > I must comment, though, that this is drifting way off the topic of the > envelope. LOL. Doesn't it always? > LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:55:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: The weak point 5/5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah, thank you for that happy ending, Chiara! :) And Bravo, Martha! She's way scarier than Superman, I agree... -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ In America only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. -- Geoffrey Cotterell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:02:26 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nicole Wolke Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>So why did they wait (besides the TBTP reason )? What do you guys think?<< Actually, I had this discussion a lot of times on the German fanfic list. We discussed back and forth why they waited and who was responsible for that decision. You can read my personal theory in my vignette: "Virtually Destroyed: A missing scene". In short: I think that they waited because the marriage was just a few weeks ahead after VD. Obviously they weren't really ready for that step in VD already and since the marriage was planned just, I don't know five weeks later? Wouldn't it be natural to wait then to make the event a little bit more special? They couldn't know after all, that the marriage was going to be postponed for such a long time. Nicole -- AKA CKgroupie on IRC/AIM NKWolke@t-online.de Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain? And you don't have enough time to search? Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page" http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:04:25 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/22/01 12:26:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR writes: > A couple of reasons come to mind: --Clark, as Superman, has traditional values and the show wanted to continue portraying those values. I guess this could definitely turn into a debate....but I will leave it as a simple statement of opinion. --As intimated in some L&C scenes, the wedding night, traditionally, is meant to be the most special of all nights as newlyweds share themselves with each other for the first time, thus beginning the marriage in a beautiful and unique way, a celebration of life and love that makes their union sacred. "This is it, isn't it, when our lives truly begin", or "This was meant to be the most special night of our lives". That's what L&C did, they celebrated their marriage union in every way after finally coming together....and kept on celebrating ;). As I mentioned several years ago in another forum, I was thrilled that they waited, and set a great example for all the children watching. So real life, or not, on the show, there was no pre-marital sex, and thus it seems out-of-character for me, to have p.m.sex in fics.....the same for foul language. L&C is not real-life, it is a fantasy world that is a bit above RL, or tried to be anyway. (I even don't like watching the unedited blooper tape because it is out-of-character for the show that I love). Kate ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:17:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm suddenly finding this even more interesting. Would this fit under the > category of: Do you write a story to reflect your moral views of life, or to > reflect the way life is? Well, we all see "the way life is" through the prism of our personal beliefs, to one extent or another. Nicky and I agree that there's lots of premarital sex in the world, but she thinks it's fine while I think it's trouble So those attitudes are likely to creep into our stories. BUT ... what we really should be basing things on is series canon. We actually have a fairly good notion of both Lois and Clark's thoughts on premarital sex, and neither of them had *moral* qualms about it (they were reluctant for other reasons). So if I wrote Lois as a pseudo virgin saying it was wrong not to wait for marriage, I would be writing her out of character. But if someone else wrote her going to bed on the first date, that would also be out of character. (In Elseworlds, we have more freedom to redefine these, but they still strike us as very different, and need to be carefully explained/rationalized). I think we all need to be aware that Lois & Clark are not us and just because an action seems natural or unnatural to us, personally, doesn't mean they would or would not do it. I know I have to catch myself at times :) That said ... there seems to be a consensus in fanfic that it's not necessary for them to wait until marriage for sex ... even though that's what they did in the series. And I've done it too, more than once, so don't imagine I'm pointing fingers. :) I think that usually reflects the author's personal world view, combined with an impatience to get to the "good stuff" without the bother of writing a wedding (weddings have been done and done and done, and I think most of us are reluctant to go over that ground again). The great thing about L&C, really, is that there's enough justification in the series that an author can choose for them to have premarital sex, or not, as they please ... it can be in character either way, if it's done right. PJ whose moral standards for "real life" and fiction often diverge, with fiction having more leeway. -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ In America only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. -- Geoffrey Cotterell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:36:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helene said: > I guess that what really surprises me, like I said, is the fact that Lois > wanted to wait with Luthor *and* with Clark, in two very different > situations. Well, I remember being utterly convinced that they'd started sleeping together after OW (before that, the episodes usually ended with Clark leaving; after that, not so much...) so yeah, I was surprised to hear they hadn't ... I guess the idea is that Lois, with all her bad karma, wanted to wait til it was perfect -- besides the fact that their lives tended to be quite unsettled what with villains of the week and all ;) Maybe she thought of a wedding ring as a magic charm that would make things perfect. And Clark might still be a farm boy at heart, and just have the residual notion (not especially grounded in religious belief) that sex should wait til marriage. It probably wouldn't have stopped him if Lois wanted to go ahead, but since they were both willing to wait, they waited. I liked the idea of them waiting, because it is rare and refreshing these days, but the justification for it was a little thin. :) Christy mentioned, re COTOC: > I have to say > that I believed Clark's response was more rooted in embarrassment and feeling > insulted that his parents don't realize that he *could* be having sex, than > in communicating his true beliefs about premarital sex. That's how I saw it too. Even when someone chooses to abstain, it's insulting to imply that no one would *want* to sleep with them Especially for a guy, I think. -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ In America only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. -- Geoffrey Cotterell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:35:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh, there's so much I want to argue here (and I don't mean to single out Labby's post, but I like her idea of a new subject line so I'm using that) but I won't, because it's an explosive area and probably not really the pervue of this list. However, there seems to be some confusion over the meaning of phrases like "moral high ground" -- when I see people use "moral" my default assumption is that they're referring to traditional Judeo-Christian values, in a broad sense (details do differ but not in core areas). That means, no sex outside of marriage (pre- or extra-), taking responsibility for providing for and raising your kids, not hurting others, not standing by and letting others be hurt, being a good citizen, protecting children from 'adult' issues like sex and violence, either experienced or witnessed. That kind of thing. I perfectly understand that in many areas, this is no longer the norm. I'm not about to say that anyone who disagrees is an evil person, because I know a lot of non-religious people who are very nice (not to mention some 'religious' people who are jerks). But for a word to have meaning, it has to have a generally accepted definition ... if morality is individual and varies from person to person, it very soon ceases to have any solid meaning. I think "morality" is something that does have a religious base of some sort ... I think what some of you are talking about is "ethics", which is a code of behavior *not* based on religion, but on other principles. God gets to define morality; men define ethics. And I'm not making value judgements on either side here, just trying to define terms... To get back to the point: I think that Clark, with his small-town background, would have been brought up in an atmosphere of religion -- even if going to church was more of a social thing than a matter of sincere belief. Small-town America is generally a lot more puritannical and provincial than Europe :) I think some of that would have stuck with Clark, subliminally. > For instance, whose moral standards should > Superman/Clark agree with? If there are large numbers who believe that > homosexuality is wrong and immoral, as there seems to be, should > Clark/Superman have to agree with them? If there are large numbers who > believe that blacks are less intelligent than whites, should he have to > support that? Wendy, I have to say that this was an insulting and inflammatory paragraph, and way out of proportion to Hazel's theory. -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ In America only the successful writer is important, in France all writers are important, in England no writer is important, in Australia you have to explain what a writer is. -- Geoffrey Cotterell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:12:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Liz S Subject: Re: First Fight 2/? Carol, I also want to say how much I enjoyed Part 2 of "First Fight" (loved the constant name questions, should it be Lois Kent or Lois Lane), and am looking forward to part 3. Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:30:52 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Why they Waited - WAS Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helene asked: > >>So why did they wait (besides the TBTP reason )? What do you guys think?<< I suggested to Helene last night that part of the reason could have been Lois's fear of disappointing Clark: I see that as the reason for her skittishness. Well, she more or less admitted it in VD. It's possible, then, that with the wedding not *that* far off (as Nicky pointed out), they decided to wait as a means of taking the pressure off both of them. No more wondering, every time they spent an evening together, whether it would happen *that* night; whether and how they should be prepared for it to happen; whether they should be careful about what underwear they were wearing - just a certainty that they would make love for the first time on their wedding night. Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:38:40 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam wrote, quoting me: > > For instance, whose moral standards should > > Superman/Clark agree with? If there are large numbers who believe that > > homosexuality is wrong and immoral, as there seems to be, should > > Clark/Superman have to agree with them? If there are large numbers who > > believe that blacks are less intelligent than whites, should he have to > > support that? > > Wendy, I have to say that this was an insulting and inflammatory > paragraph, and way out of proportion to Hazel's theory. I'm sorry that you think it was 'insulting and inflammatory', Pam. It was intended as neither, but as a logical extrapolation of a 'theory' which I cannot and do not accept. I therefore reject your description of my argument. If you want to discuss this further, let's take it to private email. Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:44:43 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: First Fight - 3/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay - part 3!!!! Warning - there is a little violence here! Not much - just a little. ***** They took a cab to Marvin's place in silence, not even holding hands. They were greeted by an odd dripping sound. The door wasn't locked and Lois pushed it open. "Lois, let me look first," Clark said, feeling in his gut that something was wrong here. "Don't be silly, I've seen it all: war, crime, famine. Don't think you can boss me around just because you're my husband," she intoned in her best 'don't argue with me' tone. The room was dark and shadowy, with only one lamp turned on. She tried the switch for the overhead light, but nothing happened. "Mr. Marvin?" she called out, seeing that he was sitting in an armchair, his back to them. "Wait, wait!" Clark urged. "Look. On the floor." He pointed to a puddle on the left side of the chair. On the right side of the chair a hand hung down, a gun lying on the floor at the end of the outstretched fingers. Lois turned away in distress, leaning a hand against Clark's strong chest to keep her balance as her stomach twisted. Clark looked away momentarily with a grimace as he held Lois against him, then turned back again, stricken by the awful sight. This man, who Clark had never met, had died trying to give them information that would have brought down the President or some of his men. He should have been keeping an eye out for Marvin, keeping him safe. Perhaps he could have prevented this. They called the police and waited in silence, holding hands, for their arrival, Clark ridden with guilt and Lois trying to focus on what to do about the story now that Marvin was dead. The officers who came went through the motions of investigating the scene, but made up their minds pretty quickly. "Suicide? That's ridiculous!" Lois argued. "He's tried it before," Inspector Henderson replied in an almost defeated voice. "No sign of false entry, no sign of struggle, nobody saw anybody come in or out..." "But he was trying to tell us his story. We were going to prove... that something he was working on was right!" Lois protested. "There's just no way he --" "Hey, if a man's gonna shoot himself, he could at least use a drop cloth. Make our jobs much easier," an officer mumbled. That was too much for Clark to take. To hear a policeman make jokes about the tragedy was an outrage. He stood in front of the man, his face and angry eyes just inches from the cop's face, intent on intimidating this little man. "The man's name was Bob Marvin. He was brilliant and someone who cared about others. Under the circumstances, I don't believe that kind of comment is appropriate." Lois looked at him closely, worried that her husband was taking Mr. Marvin's death too much to heart. "Sorry, buddy," the officer said. Clark's glare was working. The officer was obviously intimidated and remorseful. "Really, I'm sorry." He moved away. "Are you okay, Clark?" Lois asked Clark in concern. "Hey, we should've known. We should have protected him." "How?" she asked reasonably. "I don't know, but we should have done something," he said helplessly, deeply saddened by the tragedy, by the waste of a man's life. "Look, Clark, all we can do now is try and prove him right. We have a lot of work to do." She looked at her watch. "It's only five-thirty. Why don't we try and get a few hours sleep and I'll come by for you about nine, okay?" Lois nodded briskly and left the building. She always found it easier to bury her emotions and concentrate on work. He ran to catch up with her. When he reached her side, he stopped her with a hand on her arm. "Lois, what about us?" She stopped and looked as crestfallen as he felt. "Oh, Clark. I *am* sorry. I'm not used to this whole marriage thing yet. I got sidetracked. But where can we stay? We went over this before. There isn't enough room for us at your place." "My dad wired me some money the other day. I have a little left. We can use it for a nicer hotel room. Not as nice as last night, but better than mine." He looked in her eyes. "I need to be close to you after all of this." "I know, Clark. I need you, too. I need for you to hold me in those arms of yours while I try to get some sleep. Last night was the best night I've had in a long time." She patted his arm affectionately. Clark grinned at her in spite of everything. "The best night? A long time?" "Sleep, Clark, sleep. Now let's go find us a place to stay." She slipped her arm around his waist and he wrapped his around her shoulder and they walked off, leaning on each other for support. ***** Clark couldn't sleep, even with Lois by his side. He wrestled with his feelings of guilt until the sun came up. He had never been able to stand by and watch someone get hurt if he knew he could prevent it, but he knew, too, the risks that involved, and what might happen if people knew about his powers. A possibility occurred to him, and he turned it over in his mind during the early morning hours. He took a shower while Lois slept, still thinking about his idea. Then, still damp and clad only in a towel, he called his parents from the phone in their room. He told them about the tragedy, unburdening himself. His mother was distressed that he was torn up about something that wasn't his fault. "I can't help it, Mom, I feel responsible," he said in reply. "If you could've helped him, you would have," Martha said calmly into the phone. Jonathan, on the extension, changed the subject. "Clark, what's this about a guy falling from a construction site? Your mother told me he recognized you!" "Dad, the workman was really out of it. I mean, nobody believed him when he pointed to me. Not even Lois," Clark assured them. "One of these days you're gonna pull one of your stunts and some nut with a video camera is going to --" Martha interrupted hotly. "Well what did you want him to do, Jonathan, did you just want him to let the man die?" She sighed, the sigh of a mother who didn't know how to help her child. This situation had come up many times before, but now that he was trying to put down roots, things could get complicated. "So how are your clothes holding out?" she asked her son trying to keep the conversation light. "Don't change the damned subject!" Jonathan said sounding like he had woken up on the wrong side of the bed, knowing that there were things more important than clothes. Clark stopped him. "Listen, I have been thinking about this, and maybe it's a crazy idea, but... Mom, how's your sewing machine, is it still working?" "I think so," she said, confused. "Well, I have a favor to ask. I think I need some kind of outfit," he said, still not sure about how this idea of his. There was silence. "Outfit?" Jonathan echoed. "What like tights or something?" "I don't know about that, but, you know, like a costume I could wear when things like that accident happen," Clark explained, growing more sure of himself. "I could --" There was a soft moan from the bed. "Oh, Mom, Dad, I gotta go, Lois is up. I'll talk to you later. No, we aren't at my hotel. We got a little nicer one until we can figure out where to live. I'll talk to you later. I love you, too, both of you. Bye." "Good morning, sleepyhead." Lois rolled over and took a good look at her husband. "A towel again, huh? A girl could get used to that!" She smiled as he sat down next to her. "What's that about a costume?" "You were eavesdropping, were you? Do you know what I do to little girls who eavesdrop? First, I tickle them," he poked her in the stomach, "and then I kiss them." He stretched out next to her on the bed and covered her lips with his. The kiss was just starting to get interesting when he pushed back and reminded her that they needed to get into the office before Perry had their hides. "You still haven't told me what you need a costume for. You're a little old for trick-or-treat; aren't you? And it isn't that time of year yet anyway." Clark sat on the edge of the bed and sighed. "Lois, it is one of those things that we need to talk about. Tonight, okay?" Lois nodded slowly. "Okay. But there are other things that I think I would rather be doing tonight," she added mischievously. "We were both too tired this morning. Not that either one of us was really in the mood after what happened. But tonight. Tonight is a whole new ballgame. And you *did* promise!" she added with an impish grin. "I promised if you were good. And you haven't proven anything yet, milady," he smiled at her. "But this talk HAS to come first, okay? And we need to try to figure out something a little more permanent for living arrangements. I don't want to sound rude, sweetheart, but I don't know, so I have to ask. How long is Lucy staying with you?" "I don't know, Clark. I'll talk to her today. If she is leaving soon, we can just stay at my place for now at least. But for now, we better get going." ***** Lois and Clark were walking along the street on their way to work. They stopped for coffee and tried to hurry but found that they were more interested in talking. "Lois, when are we going to tell everyone that we are married? We can't keep it hidden forever." "I know Clark." Lois sighed. "I don't know when or how to tell them. To tell anybody. I mean your parents know. But I don't even care if my parents ever find out." "You don't mean that." "No, I don't. But, that weekend? In Washington?" Clark nodded. "That was the last real conversation I had with my dad. He and my mom split up about that time and he was too busy for me and Lucy. The last real conversation we had was when he told me that he had to go to Seattle and I was driving back to Metropolis. All I could think about was you and how we weren't going to get to spend the day together. I didn't even pay that much attention to what he said. The conversation before that was the argument over the 'hick from Nowheresvile'," she smiled through the tears that were streaming down her cheeks. "And before that was at the Chinese restaurant when I ended up not quite in the bathroom." "Oh, Lois. I want to hold you and wipe those tears away. Will you let me? Please?" Lois sucked in a deep breath. "No, Clark. Not right now. We're in public. And no one knows yet. If anyone saw us, it would create more problems. How 'bout I let you hold me later?" "Fine. Later. Lois, is it always going to be later? I mean eventually, we are going to get caught. I can't not look at you during the day and I know that my feelings show through. I don't know how Perry hasn't figured it out yet." Clark was obviously frustrated. "And where are we going to live? Or ARE *we* going to live? Are we just going to have midnight trysts whenever we can sneak out the window and I'll try to give you a hickey behind the Dairy Freeze? Or at the drive-in?" Clark stopped and turned her so that she was facing him. "You are my WIFE, Lois. And I want everyone to know that. I want to hold you when you cry in private *and* in public. I want to be able to kiss you without worrying if someone is watching. I want to go home and share a bed with you. Share my life with you. There are so many things that we haven't even talked about yet. Things about my past that you need to know. Nothing illegal or anything, but things that make me, me. There are things about you that I don't know and I want to. I don't want to hide anymore. I don't have to hide my wedding ring anymore and I don't want you to have to hide yours in the flip of a notebook or a mug of coffee." Lois used her right hand and then her left to wipe away the tears that were flowing freely. Clark caught her left hand in his. "Where are they, Lois? Where are your rings? Are you ashamed of me? Of our marriage? Even though it isn't exactly conventional, it is a marriage. Why did you take them off?" "Clark, I just don't want to risk anyone seeing them. They're right here." She pulled a long chain out from under her business suit. "I am keeping it close to my heart until we can tell the world that we are together. Just like you keep mine." "It's not the same, Lois and you know it." "I know, Clark. I'm just not ready yet. Please try to understand." She looked at him imploringly. They stood there, their eyes locked for what seemed like an eternity. Lois was about to give in - she could drown in the chocolate pools that passed for the eyes of Clark Kent - when the spell was broken by Jimmy. "Lois? You okay? The Chief saw you two standing down here arguing and sent me to get you and tell you both to get to work." Lois turned away and wiped the tears from her face, putting the rings back inside the suit before she turned to face Jimmy. "I'm fine, Jimmy. It was a rough night and I didn't get much sleep. Clark, can we continue this conversation later?" "Don't worry," Clark said grimly. "We will." The three walked inside. ***** Later that day Jimmy had exciting news for the reporters. The three of them went into an empty conference room to talk. "This just came in the mail for me. I didn't understand why it came to me, but I am the one who saw Marvin yesterday. In here is everything that you guys need to write the story. It's not about the President. It's the Secretary of State. And, boy, he is as corrupt as the day is long!" Lois poked at him playfully, which he avoided with a laugh before leaving. Lois and Clark looked at each other with triumphant grins. Checking to make sure the blinds were closed, he pulled her into his arms. "He was right! Marvin was right!" she said exuberantly. She gave him a quick kiss and wriggled out of his grasp. "Now we can write the story," Clark exalted. "I can write the story," Lois quickly, still smiling as she corrected him. "With my help," he insisted. "With your help," she agreed, a little too quickly for anyone who knew Lois "Mad Dog" Lane. "And if we can convince people there was corruption, and who was behind it --" "We can stop them," Clark finished her sentence, his grin lighting the room. "Oh, God!" she cried, practically jumping into his arms. They both drew back a little bit to look at one another, a bit startled and a lot happy. Each of them felt something far more than partnership from working on a story and they were ready to get home to find out what it was. "Why don't we have dinner?" Clark suggested suddenly, hoping that everything was right between them again. "I haven't had dinner out with my wife since we got married. But if she'd rather, and we can find a kitchen, I could make her a good, old fashioned, home cooked meal" "You cook too? Well, that's good, because I don't. Oh, I don't know," she said quickly, feeling uncharacteristically off-balance. "I haven't had dinner out with my husband since we got married either. He did bring *the best* Chinese take out one night. *That* was delicious. I think that I might like for him to make me dinner." "We should celebrate our respective weddings then," he said persuasively, hoping to help her relax a bit. She hesitated, scared to take another dangerous step, yet knowing how wonderful that one step could be. *He has such wonderful eyes*, she thought with a pang. He truly wasn't like most guys, and there was an innocence, a naivete to him that made her trust that he wasn't going do anything to take advantage of her - even if he was her husband. "Okay, dinner, and then - just you and me," she said quietly, but hopefully. Suddenly a sense of euphoria swept over her, and she giggled. Maybe she would tell everyone, after tonight. Then reality came crashing through. "Oh, wait a second, what am I talking about? I can't. I have plans tonight. Clark, I completely forgot." The hopes that had lifted Clark's heart dropped, and his smile vanished. "Luthor?" he asked with a trace of bitterness and a hint of a challenge in his voice. "Yeah," she replied casually, but she knew there were undercurrents here that she understood and at the same time couldn't comprehend. "I don't trust him Lois. Not with you. My wife or not, I don't trust him." "Well, that's not for you to decide, Clark." "So you would put an *interview*," he spat the word out, "over an evening with your new husband. "This isn't just any interview, Clark. It's the first one-on-one interview with one of the wealthiest men in the world. And I made plans for it *before* we got married." She opened the door to the conference room and walked out. Clark followed her into the newsroom, losing control of his emotions. That was something that he rarely did. He ALWAYS had control of his emotions, but this was his wife, something he'd never had to deal with before. He took a deep breath and remembered the way Lois had looked at Luthor when they were dancing at the ball. *But that was before WE were married. Surely she wouldn't do anything like that.* He thought about it for another minute and shook his head. There was no way. "Tell me something," he asked confrontationally, speaking low enough that no one else would hear, "how far are you willing to push me away to get an interview?" He knew it was dangerous to confront his wife like that. They were on shaky ground as it was and he really didn't want to push *her* away. But the words were out before he could think, and there was no taking them back. "Push you away? *Push you away?* I am not trying to push you away," she hissed angrily, looking at the rest of the newsroom who had turned to stare, as they strained to pick up any thing said loud enough. "This is business. That's all." Her voice was as cold as the Arctic he went to when he needed to be alone, masking her hurt and anger. How could she have thought that Clark was any different from the rest of them? Just because she couldn't have dinner with him because she had an interview to do, he turned around and implied that she rather spend an evening on work than with him. She was his *wife* for crying out loud. Did he really think that she would jeopardize their marriage? What did he think? That she would cheat on him less than 72 hours after the wedding? Maybe that's what it was. She looked at him and blurted it out, trying to keep her voice low and failing miserably. "What? Are you trying to insinuate that I would *sleep* with Lex to get an interview?" She regretted it as soon as she said it. She knew that they desperately needed some time alone together to talk things out in order to figure this marriage business out; but not tonight, especially not after what she had just said. She grabbed her satchel from her desk and tried to make a dignified retreat. She had to get away from his eyes. When she looked at him, she could see his heart break. Clark just stood there. Silent. "Of course not. But," he couldn't just say nothing. "What is your problem, anyway? You've had a chip on your shoulder since the day I met you. You resented the fact-" "That Perry foisted an inexperienced --" "Snob!" She twirled around to face him, avoiding his eyes. "What?" "You are a snob, Lois," he said clearly. "Well, coming from Mr. Dinkyville, that's really --" She stopped. She could almost hear the shattering that she knew was taking place inside him. As much as she wanted to, she just couldn't let it drop, though, and turned on him, her dark eyes flashing fire, hurt and regret. She just couldn't stop herself. "I live by three rules. I never get involved with my stories, I never let anyone else get there first, and I never sleep with anyone I work with. *This* is business." And so that only he could hear, she hissed, "Don't wait up." With that she stormed up the stairs to the elevator, never looking back. As she stood in the elevator, she realized the implications of what she had just said. She could see the pain in his eyes, unable to look away, as the doors shut. Sure, those were her rules, but now she was married to one of her coworkers. And not only had she slept with him, but she couldn't imagine sleeping with anyone else for the rest of her life. *How would I know where you're staying?* With a sick, sinking certainty, Clark knew that he had made a big mistake. He had ticked off his wife, Mad Dog Kent. Mad Dog Lane. Whatever. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:24:42 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam wrote: > But for a word to have meaning, it has to have a generally accepted > definition ... if morality is individual and varies from person to > person, it very soon ceases to have any solid meaning. I think > "morality" is something that does have a religious base of some sort ... As my dictionary defines it, so do I follow ;) Moral - concerned with or relating to human behaviour, esp. the distinction between good or bad or right or wrong behaviour. Moral sense. 2. adhering to conventionally accepted standards of conduct. 3. based on a sense of right and wrong according to conscience: moral courage; moral law. [zipping several other definitions relating to moral victory, moral support etc] 9. principles of behaviour in accordance with standards of right and wrong. As you can see, not a religious connection in sight. To clarify, this was the definition of morals which my earlier posts was based on. And I can only disagree most strongly that morals or morality has any direct link to any religion. I did mean morals, not ethics. > Wendy, I have to say that this was an insulting and inflammatory > paragraph, and way out of proportion to Hazel's theory. I have to disagree here also. Wendy made a valid point, I thought, extrapolated out of Hazel's post. It seemed to me to be an entirely logical extension of the argument, nothing more. I didn't see it as being intended to be inflammatory at all. Wendy made a concerted effort to make it clear that her post was not intended to be argumentative or disrespectful of Hazel's pov. As none of us wish to bring religious debate to the list, however I would suspect, and there being few religious debates which don't turn at least slightly grumpy somewhere along the line, I would respectfully suggest that we save this debate for email or #lanekent before tempers inevitably become frayed. :) LabRat :) > > -- > > Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net > http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam > http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ > > In America only the successful writer is important, > in France all writers are important, in England > no writer is important, in Australia you have to > explain what a writer is. -- Geoffrey Cotterell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:24:31 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Labrat referred to an IRC comment: <> I wonder about this reference, perhaps because it's attributed to a Turkish custom and doesn't seem culturally consistent with that region. But it does kinda sound like a National Geographic fantasy thing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:46:02 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol wrote: I wonder about this reference, perhaps because it's attributed to a Turkish custom and doesn't seem culturally consistent with that region. But it does kinda sound like a National Geographic fantasy thing. Apparently well documented, wherever it comes from, Carol. Turkey sticks in my mind for some reason, but as I said earlier, don't take that as gospel. My memory works in weird ways its wonders to perform most days of the week - don't see why now should be any different. ;) If this wasn't entirely the wrong forum for it I could bring up as an example instead quite a few customs of sexuality and morals which are perfectly normal for the cultures involved and which would no doubt bring criminal charges here in the West. [g] I saw a documentary some years back about a particular tribe that would knock your little cotton socks off. ;) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:02:24 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fwding for Laurie :) L > In a message dated 02/22/2001 11:19:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > labrat@BLUEYONDER.CO.UK writes: > > << As you can see, not a religious connection in sight. To clarify, this was > the definition of morals which my earlier posts was based on. And I can only > disagree most strongly that morals or morality has any direct link to any > religion. I did mean morals, not ethics. >> > > Hmm, as I read several of the previous posts about morals, I kept thinking: > don't Aesop's fables all end in morals--like "the moral of the story is..."? > I don't think there'd be much disagreement over the right/wrongness of the > points of those stories, either, despite differences in culture and/or > religion. > > --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:11:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gerry Anklewicz Subject: Re: Why they Waited - WAS Re: Pushing the Envelope? In-Reply-To: <041901c09ce4$70f5b000$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have just had the opportunity to read a delightful nfic by ML Thompson looking at the issue of Why the Waited. It's called The Bet. Look for it at you local nfic site. Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:34:15 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? In-Reply-To: <037001c09cc7$a9131940$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Okay, I am now officially withdrawing from this discussion, as matters seemed to have gone too far. I don't care to continue in this vein, so I'll bow out while things are still technically polite. I will say just one thing, Wendy: I have never intimated that Superman, Clark, Kal-El, or what-have-you should police the world. I suggested that Clark Kent/Superman is put on a pedestal by the rest of the world, and should therefore seize the moral high ground for HIMSELF. As to the definition of morality: my definition is apparently quite different from many others on this list, and I don't care to define it in this forum. This isn't the place for it. I stay out of off-topic folders for the same reasons. Hazel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? Hazel wrote: >I will say just one thing, Wendy: I have never intimated that Superman, >Clark, Kal-El, or what-have-you should police the world. I know that, and I certainly didn't suggest that you did. I'm not even clear how what I did say could be interpreted in that light, though I don't want to bore everyone by revisiting the post. > I suggested that >Clark Kent/Superman is put on a pedestal by the rest of the world, and >should therefore seize the moral high ground for HIMSELF. And likewise, I have little difficulty with this statement. Where I do diverge from you is around some of the margins of that moral high ground. What I intended to show is that, where it comes down to private morality, there are many grey areas and differing opinions. Therefore the particular example you gave is not one with which everyone will agree, and yet they will have their own moral standards and boundaries. I do apologise if you read my earlier post in anything other than the light it was intended. I still don't think it was anything other than a reasoned argument, but I'm certainly well aware that words on a screen can be misconstrued. Had someone brought that possibility to my attention privately, rather than publicly in such a manner, I would certainly have posted a clarification of my intent, along these lines, earlier. >As to the >definition of morality: my definition is apparently quite different from >many others on this list, and I don't care to define it in this forum. This >isn't the place for it. Agreed, Hazel. There are many varying shades of opinion on this matter on this list, and I certainly very much respect other people's right to differ from me on such issues. I think, though, that some of us have started to feel that *our* right to a diverging opinion - one which is compatible with our own morality and, in some cases, religious views - is not always respected by some others in the community, and that has occasionally led to some degree of resentment. Wendy ------------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:39:47 +1100 Reply-To: "jenerator@ozemail.com.au" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jen Stosser Subject: ER L&C appearance? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm sitting here watching ER (2nd ep of the 7th season, called "Sand and Water" I think), and reading the backlog of LOISCLA posts, during the ads; (/me tries not to give away spoilers) someone takes someone else to a new house, and proposes to her there. It looks a hell of a lot like L&C's apartment on Hyperion Ave. Anyone know any more about this? Jen jenerator@ozemail.com.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage http//www.geocities.com/j_stosser Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:47:38 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Christy Landrum Subject: Re: Fanfic Question re. US phone system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/2001 10:28:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, rae@USXCHANGE.NET writes: << > Hmm, if I do that, it tells me the phone number rather than dialing it back. > And there is a charge for doing it. But many times I get a recording that > tells me that hte number is not available by that method--meaning that it's > either blocked, a telemarketer or possibly a cell phone (that's not on?). > > --Laurie >> Right after you call someone and you don't want them to be able to *69 you, then you can dial *67 right after you hang up. Very useful for prank calls. Christy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Re: Fwd: overlord instructions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks, Terry, I LOLed over this:) The real challenge would be to actually write a story according to the rules of these instructions....! Carolyn >I found this list hilarious, and quite a few of them are applicable >to L&C stories and/or episodes. >Terry > > >>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:42:17 -0800 >>From: Stephanie Vardavas >>Subject: overlord instructions >> >> >>From: http://www.angelfire.com/la2/bahumuth/warlord.txt >> >>If I ever become an Evil Overlord: >> >>1. My legions of terror will have helmets with clear plexiglass >>visors, not face-concealing ones. >> >>2. My ventilation ducts will be too small to crawl through. >> >>3. My noble half-brother whose throne I usurped will be killed, not >>kept anonymously imprisoned in a forgotten cell of my dungeon. >> >>4. Shooting is _not_ too good for my enemies. >> >>5. The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on >>the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the >>Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. >> >>6. I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. >> >>7. When the rebel leader challenges me to fight one-on-one and asks, >>"Or are you afraid without your armies to back you up?" My reply will >>be, "No, just sensible." >> >>8. When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill >>me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." >>and shoot him. >> >>9. After I kidnap the beautiful princess, we will be married >>immediately in a quiet civil ceremony, not a lavish spectacle in three >>weeks time during which the final phase of my plan will be carried >>out. >> >>10. I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely >>necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button >>labelled "Danger: Do Not Push". >> >>11. I will not order my trusted lieutenant to kill the infant who is >>destined to overthrow me -- I'll do it myself. >> >>12. I will not interrogate my enemies in the inner sanctum -- a small >>hotel well outside my borders will work just as well. >> >>13. I will be secure in my superiority. Therefore, I will feel no need >>to prove it by leaving clues in the form of riddles or leaving my >>weaker enemies alive to show they pose no threat. >> >>14. I will not waste time making my enemy's death look like an >>accident: I'm not accountable to anyone and my other enemies wouldn't >>believe it. >> >>15. I will make it clear that I _do_ know the meaning of the word >>"mercy"; I simply choose not show them any. >> >>16. One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any >>flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before >>implementation. >> >>17. All slain enemies will be cremated, not left for dead at the >>bottom of the cliff. The announcement of their deaths, as well as any >>accompanying celebration, will be deferred until after the >>aforementioned disposal. >> >>18. My undercover agents will not have tattoos identifying them as >>members of my organization, nor will they be required to wear military >>boots or adhere to any other dress codes. >> >>19. The hero is not entitled to a last kiss, a last cigarette, or any >>other form of last request. >> >>20. I will never employ any device with a digital countdown. If I find >>that such a device is absolutely unavoidable, I will set it to active >>when the counter reaches 117 and the hero is just putting his plan >>into operation. >> >>21. I will design all doomsday machines myself. If I must hire a mad >>scientist to assist me, I will make sure that he is sufficiently >>twisted to never regret his evil ways and seek to undo the damage he's >>caused. >> >>22. I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's >>just one thing I want to know." >> >>23. When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to >>their advice. >> >>24. I will require my legions of doom to attend target >>practice so that they will have some chance of actually hitting >>greatly outnumbered noble rebels. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:43:15 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found this amusing that just as this list is discussing morality, another list I'm on --of WEB DEVELOPERS!!! is also having this discussion (instigated by an article in our local paper about a woman who does a lot of not-for-profit work (on the web) who also manages an "adult" (porn?) site... --Laurie <Well Jeff's edgy jokes aside ;-)... this is actually a good >opportunity to initiate a discussion about business ethics. > >Do you separate business and personal politics? > >Some of us might say, "What was she thinking!?!" and that making a >business deal such as the one below is tantamount to selling your >soul: > >"There were some people willing to support and fund an adult site," >she said in an interview. "So we knew if we could get them to fund >an adult site -- which I really didn't want to have anything to do >with -- I wouldn't mind managing their business and their operation >for a revenue stream. That revenue stream feeds up to NetNights, >which helps support these other publications." > >Can you put your ethics on hold for business and leave your >reputation above reproach. > >I know that at WD, I couldn't separate the political from the >business. We turned down a large job for a gun manufacturer, because >I couldn't reconcile the work on that with my personal work on the >"Million Mom March". I know that some of my staff members did not >agree...their money was green so we should have done the work, but >the situation was too complicated for me....and represented too much >of a risk of backfiring on the rest of my endeavors. > >And how do you find the balance... or do you??? > > > >Kim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:55:57 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Lois' Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay -this is a stupid little thing that I threw together because I was sick of reading John Locke again. There is no plot - A, B or otherwise, really. Just needed something to write. So here it is. And I know the ending is stupid. CM ***** Lois took a deep breath and jumped off the building. She really didn't want to, but there was no choice. It was either jump or be pushed and she wouldn't give him the satisfaction. He wasn't a very good kidnapper really and Lois had been kidnapped by the best so she knew what she was talking about. He had tied her clumsily and she had easily escaped. He hadn't put tape over her mouth so that she couldn't scream. He was smart enough to bring Kryptonite along, but dumb enough to tell her about it early enough that she wouldn't call Superman. And then when he had taken her to the top of the building to make her call him - he had left it downstairs, in a lead lined room. This guy needed help. Lois had started in on him right away. She wouldn't stop talking. She ripped up every one of his kidnapping methods, telling him exactly what she thought of him and how horrible he was doing. Finally, he had enough and told her to jump off the building. She looked down, not really wanting to do it. He came closer and closer, waving a gun at her, threatening her continually. So she jumped. Down. Three feet onto the next building. Telling the kidnapper the whole time what a moron he was and how Superman was going to make him pay. That was when he remembered the Kryptonite. She hadn't brought that little mistake to his attention. But what could he do now? She was on the other roof and the Kryptonite was 15 stories below in an old bomb shelter. If he left to get it, she would disappear. If he didn't and Superman showed up. . .well, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. He jumped down and landed next to her. He pointed the gun at her and tried to find a way to get her back onto the other roof. Big mistake. Lois used one of her patented karate kicks on him. The gun went flying and Lois wriggled out of the ropes that had loosely held her. She picked up the weapon and held it on him. And she called for Superman. In seconds, he was there. He tied up the kidnapper and soon he was flying her home. The next day the headline in the Daily Planet read: "World's Dumbest Kidnapper Shows up in Metropolis: Kidnaps Lois Lane. An article by Lois Lane" Well, the headline was on page D37, right under Jimmy's update on nursing home food. But it was a headline, sort of. And Lois had the by-line. And she was upset that it was buried so far in the paper. She thought it should be a front-page story. But she always thought that. Whether it belonged there or not. Clark just grinned when he read it and realized there was no mention of Superman. So she wanted all the credit. He hadn't really done much so it was okay with him. He just pitied the next dumb kidnapper that tried to get Lois. She would find a way to make THAT front page news. THE END ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:56:16 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Lois' Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That was really funny! Thanks for sharing it. :) Mols ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:42:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Liz S Subject: Re: First Fight - 3/? ARGH! Now I'm left hanging over a precipice. I can't wait to read what happens next, Carol. I'm am really enjoying the way you have meshed your story in with the L & C timeline. Looking forward to your next post! Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:16:09 -0600 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: Lois' Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol nice little story keep writing more merry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been thinking about this discussion, and I'd like to clarify my previous post, 'cause I don't think I was making too much sense yesterday :) I guess my main problem is with the notion that everyone can define their own morality. When people are decent, considerate, and intelligent -- like the members of this list -- then they will come up with decent, considerate and intelligent moral codes. We may have theological differences, but for all practical purposes, we're on the same side, all trying to be good people. Please understand that I really do respect everyone who's been part of this discussion -- as far as I can tell, you're all very good people, whichever road you choose to get there. Sadly, however, there are all too many people in the world who are *not* decent, considerate, or even intelligent, and letting them set their own moral codes can lead to disaster for them and the people around them. Examples range from the fairly innocuous (trolling for flames on a message board) to the really really bad (killing someone in order to steal their high-top sneakers). Legal codes can only do so much to prevent willful bad behavior. That's the part that worries me, really. Wendy asked, whose morals do we choose. I took offense at her examples, as I saw a linking of religion with racism and violence, but the question itself is a good one. When we relax standards, we give more freedom to everyone. Sometimes this is a good thing, and most people can handle it ... but it also grants more freedom to behave badly, and I think we can see the effects of that all around us. I'll shut up now. -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:15:56 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: First Fight 4/4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the final part of First Fight. I am waiting on Missy and melisma to finish betareading the next story - First Flight, so when they are done - I will start posting it! Thanks for all the feedback! CM ***** Lois walked into the penthouse suite that was the home of Lex Luthor. She looked around, impressed with the plush surroundings. She thought it looked suspiciously like an attempt at a romantic dinner. There was a smallish table set for two near a roaring fire. There was no doubt that this was the finest china and crystal in Metropolis. The flatware looked to be actual silver and was engraved with the initials "LL" on them - Lex Luthor. Luthor invited her to sit down and as dinner was served, he made small talk. On one hand, if she hadn't married Clark two nights before, she probably would have enjoyed the romantic undercurrents. And on the other hand, there should have been a golden band to remind the world that she was a married woman. The undercurrents were making her more than a little uncomfortable. And she wasn't here on personal business. "Your mother and father both died when you were fourteen, correct?" she asked in her best reporter voice, her hand fingering the chain that held her rings around her neck. Lex tried to envelop her in his gaze, but he couldn't understand why it wasn't working. It had worked with so many other women. "Why don't I just have my office send you a biography?" A servant came and refilled their champagne glasses. "Well, because I don't want the standard line," she explained, really getting into reporter mode. "I mean, I want to know the real Lex Luthor. What makes you tick, what you strive for. What do you want?" "Pleasure," he said quietly. "The pursuit of pleasure." Lois looked surprised. "Hmm," she murmured as she made a note in that notebook that she kept in her purse at all times for reasons such as this. "Does that surprise you?" "I would've guessed you'd say power." "Power is a means, not an end." "You took over your first big company when you were twenty-one." She met his gaze, not about to be put off so easily. *He has nice eyes, I think, but they are no match for Clark's*. The look was making her even more uncomfortable. She looked down and asked her next question. "There were rumors that that buyout was coerced, is it true that the Board of Directors were given substantial --" "Was the food not to your liking?" he inquired effectively deflecting the question. "It was delicious," she said looking at her half-full plate. "It's just that when I work, I..." "All work and no play... Is that your credo, Lois Lane?" He moved his chair a little closer. Lois moved to the far side of her chair, eyeing him suspiciously. "I don't think that we should --" "Why don't we just enjoy the evening," he began, his voice smooth as silk, as he handed her champagne, "enjoy each other, let down your hair, loosen the tie." Their glasses clinked softly. "I'm don't wear ties," she pointed out, smiling uncomfortably and feeling very uncomfortable as well, almost like she *was* cheating on her husband. This Lex Luthor was *very* smooth. "But you're so tense. Why don't you just let your defenses down," he suggested in softly, his hand gently rubbing hers. His touch set off alarms in her head, and she withdrew automatically. "I think you've gotten the wrong idea about this dinner, Lex." The smile was gone in an instant and for a fleeting second, Lois saw something in his eyes that scared her. "Look, I hope you don't think that we're here merely because you're a beautiful young woman. It wouldn't speak very well for either of us. You want an interview, right? A scoop?" He closed her notebook and looked directly at her, whatever it was that scared her masked for the time being. "I understand that. Quid pro quo, let me tell you what I want. My talent in life is not making money, it's not juggling companies, it's character assessment, and I sense things about you. Possibilities, potentials... you have the intelligence, the spirit, and the vision to transcend the mundane." He picked up her hand and continued softly. "And, just so there are no misunderstandings - you *are* beautiful." Lois looked at the table and her half-eaten dinner. A few days earlier she would have been flattered, but now she was just uncomfortable to the point of having difficulty breathing. He could have any woman in the city and it seemed he wanted her. What potential was he talking about? What possibilities did he have in mind for her? It sounded like he wanted to date her, but at the same time she could see him wanting to hire her as well. It never ceased to amaze her when a man found her attractive. Claude had said he did, Clark definitely did, and now this. One of the most powerful men in the world thought that she was attractive. In other circumstances, it would have, and should have, been flattering and yet she was uncomfortable with that thought. She was married. Even though the marriage of her parents hadn't lasted, she believed that marriage was forever. She loved Clark and she had for over ten years. She was married to him and she was happy with that - although she wasn't ready to tell the world - she wanted more than anything to be his wife, completely. *I don't trust him Lois. Not with you. My wife or not, I don't trust him.* Clark's voice echoed in her head. She shook the thoughts away and as always, she took refuge in her work. "Lex, I have a story to write... tonight. I should get going." "No dessert?" he asked. "Um, no, I never have dessert." She looked uncomfortable as she lied and put away her notebook. "Really? You don't know what you're missing!" Lex said with a perverse grin that didn't quite reach his eyes. ***** The Rolls Royce glided to a stop in front of Lois' building. She quickly emerged from the car, not waiting for Asabi, the driver, to open the door. She needed to get away from the close confines of the car. She called a 'good night' to Luthor as she got out and was dismayed to see that he followed her. They stood on the sidewalk, Lois unsure of what to say, and Luthor enjoying a perverse pleasure in her discomfort. Clark approached silently, an almost murderous look in his eye. He didn't know if he could control himself if Luthor tried anything. He knew he should leave, before things got out of hand, but he couldn't leave Lois with that *snake* either. Dressed more comfortably than either of the two he was watching, he had come from his hotel to make sure she made it home and hopefully get a moment with her so they could clear things up. In spite of the fight, they were married and he felt the need to protect her. He let out a short sigh of relief when he realized that Lois had come home; in spite of her rules, he had been afraid that she wouldn't come home. He didn't think that she would stay with Luthor, but if she went somewhere else, he wouldn't have been able to find her. He watched as Lex adjusted the lapels of the coat she wore around her shoulders and spoke softly to her, and she smiled uncomfortably at him as she pulled away - Clark could tell that she knew something wasn't right. Then they walked up the steps. Lois went inside first, looking back at him as though willing him to not come in. Lex turned to nod slightly to Asabi before following Lois into the building. Clark found the alley that was next to her window and floated up. He was desperate to know whether Luthor was just seeing her to her door or staying for a drink, but he couldn't quite bring himself to use his superhearing to listen in. Lex didn't try to come in, for which Lois was grateful. At least Lucy was home so there was little chance of that happening. They stopped just outside the door to her apartment. *He's going to kiss me*, she thought, as he slowly leaned towards her. She had been wondering if he would, and wondering what she would do if he did. She closed her eyes, took a deep breath, and blurted out, "Lex. I'm married." She opened the door and quickly went inside, shutting him out. "Nice excuse, Lois. Until next time," Lex said softly, disbelief obvious in his voice and he turned and walked away, supremely confident. She listened to him leave, then made a noise somewhere between a whimper and a cry in her throat. She had blown the perfect opportunity - the one, if any, that reporters ever had - the chance to do the first exclusive interview with Lex Luthor. They had been virtually alone for the whole evening and instead of asking the difficult, probing questions that Lois Lane was known for, she had spent the evening feeling more uncomfortable than she had ever been in her life. What was the newsroom going to say? How could she face them tomorrow? How could she face Clark? Convincing herself that she heard a noise in the hallway, she opened the door to her apartment, hoping that Clark would be there, somehow knowing that he had been watching. When he wasn't, she slammed it shut behind her, shaking the pictures on the wall. She threw her purse and her keys down on the sofa, and spent some time struggling with her coat, too upset to take it off properly. She sat on the couch with her head in her hands. Lucy emerged from the kitchen, coffee in hand. "Well?" "Oh, I blew it! I didn't get the interview!" She was furious - with Luthor for blowing it for her *and* with Clark for letting her go and for being right. But she was angry mainly with herself for getting sucked in by a charismatic man, who though rich and powerful, could never own her heart. "No," Lucy said, setting down her coffee and trying to work the knots out of her sister's shoulders with a gentle touch of her hands. "Did he ask you out again?" "No, and I wouldn't go if he did!" Lois stood up, infuriated. How was she ever going to look at Perry and tell him that there was no story, because all Luthor wanted was a date and since she was married, she couldn't let it happen? Well, maybe she'd skip the dating/marriage part, but still. As for facing Clark, that was something that she *really* didn't want to do. "You wouldn't? Why not? Lex Luthor is the world's most eligible bachelor!" Clark was still hovering just outside the window, his back to the wall, leaning around slightly in the hopes of seeing and hearing more. Anyone walking past on the street would easily be able to see him. He knew he was being incautious, but he couldn't bring himself to leave just yet. "Mr. Right could be out there," Lucy told her, her finger pointing to the window that Clark hovered next to. "Oh, come back to earth, Lucy! This is reality we're talking about." Lois walked to the window. Clark flattened himself even more against the building. Lois looked a little wistfully down at the street, then up at the sky, fingering the rings on the chain around her neck. She spoke softly into the night air. "There is no Mr. Right for me." She sighed. *There is a Mr. Kent. I just hope I haven't ruined everything between us. Does he even want anything to do with me?* Dismissing the thought, she firmly closed the curtains. She rested against the window and whispered, "I love you, Clark Kent," not knowing that he had left silently a few seconds before. Clark felt disheartened. Lois didn't sound as though she was interested in a relationship with any man, be it a billionaire or a co-worker or a husband. Frustrated and unable to release his emotions, he flew straight up, careful not to make any sound. For a moment he was silhouetted against the moon. He looked down at her shadow as she closed the curtains in the window and whispered, "I love you, Lois Lane Kent." And then he was gone. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:17:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Lois' Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I liked it, Carol. :-) ~ Heidi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:57:11 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well put, Pam. Most of all we strive to adopt a moral code which encourages behaviour that does not harm others. I hope:) Carol ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:04:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Liz S." Subject: Re: First Fight 4/4 Oh, good, Carol! I panicked for a moment when I saw this was the last part of "First Fight", and thought that I'd have to end this delightful story. I'll now get to look forward to "First Flight". Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:44:51 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Missy Gallant Subject: Re: First Flight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey Carol, You snuck up on me and posted everything already :) I'll get working on First Flight right away :) I've finished Strangers II for the most part, still waiting on a BR to send it back, what is it about those BR's anyway? :) Let me get to work and I'll get it back to you this morning. Talk to you soon! Missy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:56:16 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Missy Gallant Subject: Re: Firts Flight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey everyone! I made a mistake and sent my post to the list instead. And please understand that I was pounding myself for not BR-ing quickly enough, not the wonderful person who is reading for me. :) So with this note, I will duck tomatoes and get to work. Missy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:32:02 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nicole Wolke Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Very well said, Pam :-) BTW: > I guess my main problem is with the notion that everyone can define > their own morality. I thought about that, too and I think I don't agree with Wendy and Hélène here. I don't think that morality is something individual. I think that they're moral values that are to be seen as "non discussable" and defined as moral in contrary to immoral for everyone. At least in our cultural (and undoubtely christian influenced) background and Superman *is* a member of that cultural background. Maybe I should even go further and say he was raised in the USA, and has claimed to "fight for the American way", so he's mainly to be seen in the cultural home of the USA (although that makes it difficult for me as a writer, since I don't live there). The problem is though that although there're a moral values that are generally accepted, like "you shouldn't kill each other" or "You shouldn't take each others property", the definition of morality is constantly changing. So my question would be: is premarital sex judged as something immoral, by a large majority of people in our cultural background, or if you take the circle closer, of people in the USA? As long as it is, I agree that Superman would "take moral high ground" as Hazel wrote. If it is not though, I think as a writer you can decide both ways and still feel you write Superman as a person with high moral values. Nicole -- AKA CKgroupie on IRC/AIM NKWolke@t-online.de Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain? And you don't have enough time to search? Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page" http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:11:16 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicky wrote: I don't think that morality is something individual. I > think that they're moral values that are to be seen as "non discussable" > and defined as moral in contrary to immoral for everyone. I think the latter statement is very true, Nicky and I agree with you entirely. Community and social morality exists, of course it does. But so does moral individuality, running alongside and parallel to it, imo. The former can give us a guideline on what is acceptable, but it is our own consciences which shape our individual morals and form the basis of our life choices as far as I see it. > So my question would be: is premarital sex judged > as something immoral, by a large majority of people in our cultural > background, or if you take the circle closer, of people in the USA? As > long as it is, I agree that Superman would "take moral high ground" as > Hazel wrote. If it is not though, I think as a writer you can decide > both ways and still feel you write Superman as a person with high moral > values. I agree completely with you here too. In fact I made this point in one of my earlier posts. There, however, it was my belief that the answer to the question is no. As regards pre-marital sex, the Moral Majority in the US, no matter how they name themselves, is still I believe the moral minority overall. So far no one has posted to claim differently, but I reiterate that this is only my belief of the current situation as I understand things in the US today and I could be entirely wrong. Lastly - just to clarify - the point of contention with earlier posts defining the moral high ground, as far as I was concerned, wasn't one of general morality, but rather that they appeared to be pinning the moral high ground solely to religious morality. As an agnostic, I quite obviously cannot accept this pov as being true. Otherwise I would have to assume that I am an amoral or immoral person. Which I disagree with, not unnaturally. ;) God - any God - has no part in my life choices or in defining my individual moral code. Only my life experiences, my conscience and the laws and social rules of my time do that. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:12:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Nicky wrote: >I thought about that, too and I think I don't agree with Wendy and >H=E9l=E8ne here. I don't think that morality is something individual. That isn't actually what I was arguing. To say that there is no one standard where morality is concerned is not actually the same as saying that everyone can define their own. Actually, even among those who define themselves as part of a mainstream Judeo/Christian religious tradition, there isn't complete agreement on issues of what I tend to call private morality. But there are certain standards which are generally regarded as universal: don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't hurt other people etc. >So my question would be: is premarital sex judged >as something immoral, by a large majority of people in our cultural >background, or if you take the circle closer, of people in the USA? As >long as it is, I agree that Superman would "take moral high ground" as >Hazel wrote. If it is not though, I think as a writer you can decide >both ways and still feel you write Superman as a person with high moral >values. Well, I do have a general problem with assuming that Superman *should* take a public stance on private morality. Yes, he should oppose murder, and not kill himself. He shouldn't lie. He shouldn't steal, even though we know that Clark did. (We also know, incidentally, that Clark held Superman to a higher moral standard than he did himself). But to consider that he should set an example in something so private as his sex-life, and privately as Clark as well as publicly as Superman, does go a lot further as a role- model than I want to accept. *That*, incidentally, was what Curtain Twitchers was really about. It was about Clark and Lois declaring that their sex life, whatever it was, was nobody else's business but their own. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Superman setting some sort of public stance on sex. And, while there are varying views among FoLCs on the issue of pre-marital sex, and varying explanations as to why Lois and Clark waited until they married, I do believe that their reasons for waiting didn't have anything to do with opposition to pre-marital sex, per se. Not with the evidence from VD and Super Mann, just to name a couple of occasions on which they almost 'did the deed', but were interrupted. That is why I have frequently written them as making love before they're married, though usually in my stories the first time is hand-in-hand with a formal declaration of commitment of some kind: a serious relationship, an engagement. And it's why I'll probably continue to do so. There are other writers who will continue to write them as preferring to wait, and that's equally consistent with canon because they *did* actually wait. Both scenarios work for me, and I'll read both with equal enjoyment. :) Wendy ---------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:28:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicole speculated: > The problem is though that although there're a moral values that are > generally accepted, like "you shouldn't kill each other" or "You > shouldn't take each others property", the definition of morality is > constantly changing. So my question would be: is premarital sex judged > as something immoral, by a large majority of people in our cultural > background, or if you take the circle closer, of people in the USA? As > long as it is, I agree that Superman would "take moral high ground" as > Hazel wrote. Well, he might, anyway. I'm not sure the majority in the US thinks of premarital sex as immoral, anymore -- although that varies a lot from place to place. I have to say it's not a big issue for me, either -- I didn't do it, but that's me. If I were going to get upset about sexual things, I'd choose adultery; I think it's much more destructive. Especially the way premarital sex is depicted in L&C fanfic -- 99% of the time it's in a loving relationship that's on its way to the altar, neither casual nor promiscuous. Heck, I've written that sort of thing myself so I really have no right to get all uppity about it now, even if I wanted to. :) Which reminds me... James wrote: > Due to our personal convictions we will not nominate or cast a vote for any > story that has premarital sex in it. Um, okay. That's your choice and you've a right to do that. I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to tell us, though... I'd like to think that most of us are adults with fully-formed value systems, and I hope no one would change their mind on something so important simply in pursuit of Kerth votes :) And anyway, this has strayed very far off the original topic, which didn't consider *what* L&C did so much as how much of it was described. Would anyone consider an off-stage pre-marital encounter more offensive than a center stage detailed married romp? Wandering aimlessly, Pam :) -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:40:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > Well, I do have a general problem with assuming that Superman *should* take > a public stance on private morality. Yes, so would I... who suggested that? As I understood things, Hazel was only referring to how Clark would make choices for his *own* life, not to any public stands. Superman can provide a role model, but I wouldn't want him preaching anything. > But to consider that he should > set an example in something so private as his sex-life, and privately as > Clark as well as publicly as Superman, does go a lot further as a role- > model than I want to accept. And I definitely don't want Clark to have to make public declarations about his sex life! For one thing, it's impossible; Superman wasn't the one who got married, so how could he explain waiting until then? All I'm saying is that it's a factor that he *may* or may not have considered. Personally, I don't think it would have made much sense; as I said, it wasn't Superman The Public Figure having sex, it was Clark Kent, private citizen. As long as that secret is secret, it's no one's business. > And, while there are varying views among FoLCs on the issue of pre-marital > sex, and varying explanations as to why Lois and Clark waited until they > married, I do believe that their reasons for waiting didn't have anything > to do with opposition to pre-marital sex, per se. Not with the evidence > from VD and Super Mann, just to name a couple of occasions on which they > almost 'did the deed', but were interrupted. Well, I could quibble here Yes, they were tempted to go for it, and showed no noticeable hesitation, but after being interrupted, they didn't get back to business later -- once the Nazis were taken care of in SMn, L&C went back to the idea of waiting. I'm not going to say this was evidence of moral qualms -- they had other issues, too, which could have accounted for it -- but I don't see it as concrete proof against them, either. > That is why I have > frequently written them as making love before they're married, though > usually in my stories the first time is hand-in-hand with a formal > declaration of commitment of some kind: a serious relationship, an > engagement. And it's why I'll probably continue to do so. There are other > writers who will continue to write them as preferring to wait, and that's > equally consistent with canon because they *did* actually wait. Both > scenarios work for me, and I'll read both with equal enjoyment. :) Agree with you 100% here :) Just to prove that it is possible ;) -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:46:48 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay - today I am reading Alexis de Tocqueville and needed a break! I tried to take an overdone scenario and put a new spin on it - but I really don't know if that was possible. Let me know what you think! CM ***** Lois sat down. There was no real emotion on her face. Just stunned shock. She knew that Clark and Superman were friends. The whole world knew that. Well, any of them with any sense anyway. But something just wasn't right here. Could Clark be Superman? Lois shook her head. It just wasn't possible. There was no way. But how could she explain what she had just seen. She had gone to Clark's house at 2 a. m. after another bad date. After trying chocolate ice cream and not felling any better, she decided to go see Clark. Clark always found a way to make her feel better. Usually he just let her vent and then held her when she cried, but that was always just what she needed. So she had let herself in when he hadn't answered her knock, figuring to wake him up. But he hadn't been there. His bed looked slept in, but it was cold so he had been gone for a while. She sat on the couch waiting for him, her reporter brain working overtime trying to figure out where he was. Finally, she started to doze off. The familiar woosh of Superman woke her up and she saw him land just inside Clark's apartment window. He didn't see her there, laying on the couch in the dark. She knew where he had been. She had heard about the earthquake on the radio and knew it would have been a long night for the Man of Steel. He did look tired. His head and shoulders were drooped and he started to peel off his suit. Lois gulped. She'd often wondered if it came off and now she knew. Superman pulled the top off so that he was naked to the waist and took the cape off. It must have been heavier than she realized because it attached to his shoulders and not the suit like she had always thought. He dropped the cape into Clark's laundry basket and walked into the bathroom. Lois breathed a sigh of relief. As often as she had wanted to spend her life with Superman, she didn't want to be a peeping Tom either. It made sense. She knew that Clark held onto to Superman's extra suits, so it only made sense that he would wash them here, too. She waited for him to get out of the shower, sure that he would notice her then. But he didn't. Apparently, the earthquake took so much out of him that he didn't even notice her. When he came out of the bathroom, he was wearing nothing but a towel. Lois started. His hair was falling over his face and he looked a lot like Clark. She always knew they had resembled each other slightly, but this was too much. And she HAD seen Clark in a towel before and the view was much the same. She shook her head waiting for Superman to notice her, but he didn't. She saw him spin and when he finished spinning, he was standing there in a pair of boxers with his hair dry and glasses in his hand. He looked at the glasses as though trying to decide what to do. He finally set them on the nightstand and crawled into Clark's bed. Lois was having difficulty breathing. Once he stopped that spinning thing, he had looked JUST like Clark without the glasses. Not that she'd ever seen Clark without his glasses. It was just too much. She waited to hear the even breathing that meant Clark was asleep, hoping Superman breathed the same way when he was asleep and not knowing what to make of the whole thing. She slipped out the front door, being careful not to make any noise. Lois sat down. There was no real emotion on her face. Just stunned shock. She knew that Clark and Superman were friends. The whole world knew that. Well, any of them with any sense anyway. But something just wasn't right here. Could Clark be Superman? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:39:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Cross posting re a change in my e-mail server Comments: To: LoisandClarkNAOS@egroups.com, deancainfans@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi FoLCs and Dean Fans and Friends: Apologies to anyone who gets this message more than once. I am cross-posting to most of the lists I am subscribed to just in case there is a problem. I hope I have hit all the major ones... I just found out that at 5 pm today, a change is being made in my e-mail server. A "gateway" is being closed to prevent Spam mail. Although it appears that this should not effect most of our server users, unfortunately, I am not certain whether this will affect my ability to remain subscribed and receive mail from all the lists I am on. I have sent an inquiry regarding list subscriptions to our technical support offfice and hope to receive a reply soon. I do not wish to un-subscribe at this time in case there is no problem. However, if the list parents tell me to, I shall un-subscribe. I do not wish to lose touch with you all:( I'll post again if new information comes to me, Thanks, Carolyn ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:20:12 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: JaT Subject: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) In-Reply-To: <3A969DCC.FE0A013D@bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Pam Jernigan wrote: > And anyway, this has strayed very far off the original topic, which didn't consider *what* L&C did so much as how much of it was described. Would anyone consider an off-stage pre-marital encounter more offensive than a center stage detailed married romp?< Off-stage or center stage pre-marital would put me off. A detailed marriage romp... It would still have no place on the Archive, imo, but it wouldn't bother me otherwise. I had not concidered nfic as being marriage based. (read narrow-minded religious zealot) I could be tempted to read any good nfic that is marriage based. Any suggestions? ===== World's Wisdom (a bumper sticker): He who dies with the most toys wins. God's Wisdom (Luke 12:15b): Be careful and guard against all kinds of greed. Life is not measured by how much one owns. NCV 7 Days of Superman-Finished!http://www.geocities.com/mr_d8a/7dos.htm WIP for Elisabeth: Story of a Lifetime-TOC http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003563.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:30:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: JaT Subject: Re: Superman's Shower In-Reply-To: <20010223.114652.-161875.4.cmoncado@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I like it! Very believable and well done. ===== World's Wisdom (a bumper sticker): He who dies with the most toys wins. God's Wisdom (Luke 12:15b): Be careful and guard against all kinds of greed. Life is not measured by how much one owns. NCV 7 Days of Superman-Finished!http://www.geocities.com/mr_d8a/7dos.htm WIP for Elisabeth: Story of a Lifetime-TOC http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003563.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:29:50 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nicole wrote: > I thought about that, too and I think I don't agree with Wendy and > Hélène here. I don't think that morality is something individual. It wasn't what I meant, nor do I think that was what Wendy meant, here. There *is* a general morality, that is common to every (or almost every) human beings, such as not killing, respecting the laws, respecting each other. However, when it comes to pre-marital sex (or, come to think of it, any sexual practice), we have different views because of our background, experiences, and most times religion does play a major part. I do not mean I'm not respecting the views of people who won't make love before marriage, but just that I don't think this can be taken into consideration when it comes to 'general morality'. I personally couldn't imagine marrying a man without having lived with him for some time, but that's *my* personal choice for life, and I don't wish to impose it on others. And I don't consider myself immoral because of that particular choice, nor do I want other people to consider me immoral because of that. That's why personally (and remember this is just my opinion, not a judgment on other's views), I don't think that pre-marital sex can be opposed to 'taking the moral high ground'. > I > think that they're moral values that are to be seen as "non discussable" > and defined as moral in contrary to immoral for everyone. At least in > our cultural (and undoubtely christian influenced) background and > Superman *is* a member of that cultural background. Yes, most of us have a Christian background, whether or not we're religious in the end or not. I'm an agnostic, yet I celebrate Christmas (although one could argue that Christmas is originally the winter celebration and became a Christian celebration afterwards, but that's another debate, and the whole celebration rituals that go with Christmas are connected to Christianity anyway). So yes, considering I live in a country which has been officially catholic during centuries, and that the separation between Church and State has been done barely a century ago, there's a strong Christian - and in the case of France, Catholic - influence. Does that mean that Catholic morality should prevalue and be made *the* reference when it comes to morality? Imho, certainly not. > Maybe I should even > go further and say he was raised in the USA, and has claimed to "fight > for the American way", so he's mainly to be seen in the cultural home of > the USA (although that makes it difficult for me as a writer, since I > don't live there). Well, actually, if I remember well, in L&C, Superman fought for 'Truth and Justice', and left the 'American way' out of the statement. But it's very true that he'll have been influenced by American culture and background. Pam wrote, re.missed occasions ;) > Well, I could quibble here Yes, they were tempted to go for it, and > showed no noticeable hesitation, but after being interrupted, they > didn't get back to business later -- once the Nazis were taken care of > in SMn, L&C went back to the idea of waiting. I'm not going to say this > was evidence of moral qualms -- they had other issues, too, which could > have accounted for it -- but I don't see it as concrete proof against > them, either. What bothers me about this is that neither of them seemed particularly religious, so I don't see why it would be a 'moral' issue for them to wait till their wedding night (and especially on Lois's part, since she wasn't a virgin - actually, my own assumption is that she probably slept with Claude early in their relationship, when she didn't know him enough, so that takes the possibility of religious reasons out, at least for her... but it could be one of the reasons why she wanted to wait, with Clark). Anyway, back to Lois and Clark and religion, it's true that they had a religious marriage, but that doesn't mean much any more these days (one of my friends is getting married next summer, and chose to have a Church ceremony, although she's more agnostic than Catholic as far as I know, and she's not an isolated case). Someone mentioned in an earlier post (sorry, can't remember who it was) that Clark would have a religious education considering he'd been raised in a small Midwest town. Yes, it's very true that there's a big probability that he was raised that way, and inherited some Christian values or traditions as a result. But I don't think that necessarily means he'll follow them all as an adult - and here, I'm particularly talking of pre-marital sex, because most people, even the very religious ones, don't *always* follow that side of Christian morality. Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:05:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Jury, Karen E." Subject: A canon question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi! My name is Karen and I'm new to the list (almost a month). I've been an LnC fan since the beginning, becoming particularly interested during the second season and subsequently slightly obsessed. My question is this--is Claude part of episode canon? I have seen every episode, most more than once, and I never heard of him until I read about him in fanfic. I remember Lois mentioning her previous encounters as "federal disasters," but I do not recall a name or situation attached to any. This question was prompted by Claude being in the Episode quiz on the annesplace page. Can someone give me an episode name/answer? Thanks a lot. I'm really enjoying being on the list and the obvious camaraderie between the fans. I had no idea there were so many. :-) Karen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:24:13 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Re: A canon question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Claude is mentioned by Lois in the second half of the pilot episode, when she and Clark are prisoners of Dr Baines. That's the only time he ever comes up. Nan Jury, Karen E. wrote: > Hi! My name is Karen and I'm new to the list (almost a month). I've been > an LnC fan since the beginning, becoming particularly interested during the > second season and subsequently slightly obsessed. > > My question is this--is Claude part of episode canon? I have seen every > episode, most more than once, and I never heard of him until I read about > him in fanfic. I remember Lois mentioning her previous encounters as > "federal disasters," but I do not recall a name or situation attached to > any. This question was prompted by Claude being in the Episode quiz on the > annesplace page. > > Can someone give me an episode name/answer? > > Thanks a lot. I'm really enjoying being on the list and the obvious > camaraderie between the fans. I had no idea there were so many. :-) > > Karen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:24:26 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Jury, Karen E." Subject: Re: A canon question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks Nan. That would explain why I don't remember. I'm least familiar with the first season. It seems the fanfic writers latched on to this and gave Claude a life of his own. Karen > ---------- > From: Nancy Smith[SMTP:deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 4:24 PM > To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU > Subject: Re: A canon question > > Claude is mentioned by Lois in the second half of the pilot episode, when > she > and Clark are prisoners of Dr Baines. That's the only time he ever comes > up. > > Nan > > Jury, Karen E. wrote: > > > Hi! My name is Karen and I'm new to the list (almost a month). I've > been > > an LnC fan since the beginning, becoming particularly interested during > the > > second season and subsequently slightly obsessed. > > > > My question is this--is Claude part of episode canon? I have seen every > > episode, most more than once, and I never heard of him until I read > about > > him in fanfic. I remember Lois mentioning her previous encounters as > > "federal disasters," but I do not recall a name or situation attached to > > any. This question was prompted by Claude being in the Episode quiz on > the > > annesplace page. > > > > Can someone give me an episode name/answer? > > > > Thanks a lot. I'm really enjoying being on the list and the obvious > > camaraderie between the fans. I had no idea there were so many. :-) > > > > Karen > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:38:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: A canon question Karen, welcome to the list! I think the reason fanfic writers have made such use of Claude is that it's very clear that he's at the root of much of Lois's problems with trust and with men. He used her and betrayed her: slept with her, made her believe he loved her, then left her in the morning having stolen her story; he won an award for the story too. So many of us see Lois's experiences with Claude as a very rational explanation for why she's so reluctant to get involved with Clark - or, in fact, with anyone. (Though why she accepted Lex is still somewhat beyond me!). She finds it hard to trust, and almost expects that men are only out to take advantage of her. Wendy ------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:45:49 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James wrote: > > I had not concidered nfic as being marriage > based. (read narrow-minded religious zealot) > > I could be tempted to read any good nfic that is > marriage based. > > Any suggestions? > Well, James, just off the top of the heads of the #lanekent crew: The Circle Game - Jude For The Greater Good - Wendy Richards A Shot in the Dark - Sheila Harper Walk In My Shoes - Sheila Harper Revisionist History - Kathy Brown When Day Breaks and Shadows Flee - Kathy Brown Whiskey Galore - FlakeyDom Most, if not all, of my own nfic vignettes are post-marriage: Moving the Earth; Mile High; Wet 'n' Wild; Hearts and Showers; Puppy Dog's Tales; Beach Bunnies; Inside Scoop; Hook, Line & Sinker; Challenge: Clark Moments - Shayne Terry There are bound to be many more and no doubt we've missed some excellent stories and authors we'll be kicking ourselves over later. But for now...as yea ask, so shall yea receive. ;) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:42:42 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Melisma Subject: Re: A canon question In-Reply-To: <002A36A550CFD311911400902745EE0856B1CE@winnie.susqu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karen, might I suggest you go to Rob's FoLC Archive (http://members.nbci.com/folcarchive/main.html) and find the downloads section. He has pretty much the whole of the pilot there, and you can watch the whole thing. Welcome to the list, BTW. Melisma (always happy to meet a new FoLC, here under her Rock) At 04:24 PM 23/02/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks Nan. That would explain why I don't remember. I'm least familiar >with the first season. It seems the fanfic writers latched on to this and >gave Claude a life of his own. >Karen Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:39:31 -0700 Reply-To: erink@ida.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Erin Klingler Subject: Looking for a WAV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all :) Does anyone know where I can find the wav's of 'Forever More' (the ABC promo) and 'Simple Truth'? I have the AVIs of each of them, but wondered if there were wav's of them out there somewhere. I was going to burn a CD today of some fav LNC songs, and the burner won't do AVIs. :P Thanks in advance! Erin __________________ erink@ida.net Visit my LNC/Kerth Website: www.ida.net/users/davek ***** "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen." __________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:22:34 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/01 9:44:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: > it wasn't Superman The Public Figure having sex, it was Clark > Kent, private citizen. As long as that secret is secret, it's no one's > business. > > Except to the TV viewing audience ;), which is the whole point to me....I watched this show with my 3 children and was pleased with the example Superman and Clark set in being very patient. Kate ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:25:16 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/01 11:20:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes: > I could be tempted to read any good nfic that is > marriage based. > > Any suggestions? > > > all of Sandy McDermin's great stuff....but you have to email her privately, I believe. Kate ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:36:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Except to the TV viewing audience ;), which is the whole point to me....I > watched this show with my 3 children and was pleased with the example > Superman and Clark set in being very patient. I agree. I watch with my children, too. :-) ~ Heidi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:34:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jill Melena Subject: Re: Fwd: overlord instructions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For anyone who really enjoyed the overlord instructions which Terry posted, I have an extended version. There are 231 instructions. Just email me if you'd like a copy; it's a *little* too long for this list! -Lena _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:59:36 -0000 Reply-To: Yvonne Connell Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: Fanfic Question re. US phone system MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A big thank you to everyone who replied to my question, both here and privately. It was both educational and useful, and most importantly, my beta-reader is now satisfied Yvonne (yvonne@yconnell.fsnet.co.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:57:48 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fwding for Kate I wrote: As regards pre-marital sex, the Moral Majority in the US,=20 no matter how they name themselves, is still I believe the moral = minority=20 overall.=20 Kate responded: That, I would disagree with. Most, if not all of my friends, family,=20 associates, PTA fellow members, etc., still believe in "old-fashioned" = virtues. I believe that mainstream America still holds to those = principles=20 of no outside of marriage sex. Granted, many stray, but still do not=20 consider it appropriate behavior.=20 Kate=20 And replying, since I'm here [g] Kate, I'm sorry, but much as I respect your right to your opinion, = this is purely anacdotal evidence and I would only, personally, consider = changing the behaviour/opinion of Clark/Superman on this subject in the = face of hard, statistical evidence that the majority of people in the US = are disapproving of pre-marital sex. =20 LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:40:07 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Elisabeth A. Tull" Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? As to the original question: Yes, it does bother me when specifics are dealt with on the fanfic board and in archive. I would prefer sex was handled off-camara. (I always enjoyed watching the old Hart to Hart series where the light switched off at the end of the day. "Oh, Jonathon!") And I do believe there has been some envelope pushing going on lately. Scenes are becoming longer, more detailed... As to the question of premarital sex: While I personally am opposed to premarital sex, I fully recognize that my viewpoints are not the generally recognized position of the list. Therefore, I am not surprised, disappointed, or offended when an author chooses to write that way. (Okay, so I am disappointed when an author gives us 28 pages of excitement, intrigue, and romance only to throw them into bed in the last five paragraphs. But it's not that I feel the envelope has been pushed too far. It's more like thoroughly enjoying a large piece of pie a la mode only to discover a dead bug nestled in the crust at the last bite. It's a let-down, to say the least.) Elisabeth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:56:24 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Pushing the Envelope? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/01 10:44:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, Attalanta@AOL.COM writes: > , so it was nice to see a smart, attractive couple decide > to wait for their wedding night and not be ridiculed for it. > I couldn't agree more. It was a lovely thing to see and to have young people see. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:28:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Margaret Brignell Subject: Re: A canon question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:42:42 -0800 Melisma said: > Karen, might I suggest you go to Rob's FoLC Archive > (http://members.nbci.com/folcarchive/main.html) and find the downloads > section. He has pretty much the whole of the pilot there, and you can watch > the whole thing. I was really excited to hear about this site. Thanks Melisma:) It should be noted that the version of the Pilot he Rob has recorded is the short version. It starts with the celebration of Lois' story by the newsroom staff, whereas the "real" (or International version) starts with a boy getting out of a cab, entering the Planet, and removing "his" makeup in the newsroom to reveal "he" is Lois;) Nevertheless, it's good to be able to see the episode again:) (I wore out my copy writing "Clark...who?") Margaret ****************************** Margaret Brignell brignell@sympatico.ca Ottawa, Canada %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% My fanfic now available at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/brignell/ ****************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:34:00 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Melisma Subject: Re: A canon question In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010223202859.007f3d30@pop1.sympatico.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >It should be noted that the version of the Pilot he Rob has recorded is the >short version. It starts with the celebration of Lois' story by the >newsroom staff, whereas the "real" (or International version) starts >with a boy getting out of a cab, entering the Planet, and removing "his" >makeup in the newsroom to reveal "he" is Lois;) I've never seen this version - unless it was shown the first time it aired in Oshawa, Ontario. (Which is where I was living during first season...) And, of course, I wasn't taping it then. Didn't start taping first run episodes until fourth season. So... Where can I find it??? Melisma (on hands and knees, begging under her Rock) Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:33:54 -0500 Reply-To: superj@bellsouth.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: John Robert Mizell Subject: LNC Script??? Comments: To: Lois and Clark - Yahoo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.fortress.am/maggin/lnc/ I apologize for anyone who gets this twice, but I just ran across it tonight and thought I would share. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know how good it is compared to all the great fanfic we get from you hard-working authors. :-) It's "supposed" to be a script by a well-known Superman author that was written for Lois and Clark, but never used. Well, catch ya' later! John ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:44:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: OT School project (From List Mom) Sorry that I didn't reply to this immediately. My server went down on Wed (yes, again) and I've been nearly 100% offline for the last two days. Add in some computer hardware problems and you have one very frustrated listmom! On to the subject at hand, though ... Please do NOT send forwards like this through the listserv. Hoax or real, posts of this type are not allowed on this list. If you personally have a school project that you want help with, write me with the particulars and we can discuss whether or not you can post it. But this message was not cleared with me, and if it had been, I would have denied permission. Thank you for your future cooperation, Kathy List Mom >>Class Project >> >>Hello! We are in the 4th grade at Oliver Beach Elementary School in >>Baltimore, Maryland. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:53:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Cross posting re a change in my e-mail server On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:39:09 -0500, Carolyn Schnall < cschnall@MED.CORNELL.EDU> wrote: >I just found out that at 5 pm today, a change is being made in my >e-mail server. A "gateway" is being closed to prevent Spam mail. >Although it appears that this should not effect most of our server >users, unfortunately, I am not certain whether this will affect my >ability to remain subscribed and receive mail from all the lists I am >on. I have sent an inquiry regarding list subscriptions to our >technical support offfice and hope to receive a reply soon. Let me know if there is a problem, Caroyn, but at least on the fanfic listserv side, there is no reason for you to lose touch with us. Many of us read the posts on the website interface. It's faster and more immediate than getting digests -- you see new posts immediately, and can read them whenever you have time. And you can easily read only those threads you are interested in, skipping those with subject lines that don't. Yet your mailbox doesn't fill up. If getting listserv email through your new system is a problem, please go to the website and set yourself to NOMAIL. This will enable you to still post from the website (or via email), but you will not get individual posts. If you decide you must unsubscribe for some reason, you should do this via the website as well. (That is, you don't have to write Farah to unsubscribe you -- you are able to do this yourself.) The website address is: http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/loiscla-general-l.html Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:53:58 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/01 3:51:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, labrat@blueyonder.co.uk writes: > this is purely anacdotal evidence and I would only, personally, consider > changing the behaviour/opinion of Clark/Superman on this subject in the > face of hard, statistical evidence that the majority of people in the US > are disapproving of pre-marital sex. > > And of course the opposite could be stated as well....the need for hard statistical evidence that the majority of the people in the US don't have a problem with pre-marital sex ;).... Labrat, you were very kind in your reply, I thank you, and apologize about the need to fwd, I thought that problem was over so I didn't even check before hitting reply. Kate who just got home from her son's Eagle scout board of review....he passed!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:50:13 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LabRat wrote: << Community and social morality exists, of course it does. But so does moral individuality, running alongside and parallel to it, imo. >> I definitely agree with you here, LabRat. If you examine them closely, probably no one has the exact same morality as anyone else. Even people who claim to strictly follow the moral doctrines of an institution (such as a church) probably have small differences in morality from other members of that same institution. I think this is especially the case if you look at smaller issues, ie instead of looking at the wrongness of murder, look at the wrongess of telling white lies. Some would see it as completely wrong, but others would see it as acceptable in certain circumstances. Helene wrote: << Does that mean that Catholic morality should prevalue and be made *the* reference when it comes to morality? Imho, certainly not. >> One of my problems with the phrase Christian (or Catholic) Morality is that there are so many types of Christianity, even different types of Catholicism. Without going too much into religion (which I realize we have already done), I was raised Catholic, though my family attended a liberal church (they do exist ;) The morality I was taught through that specific church (some of which I have personally encorporated into my life and some of which I have not) is very different from the morality taught in other specific Catholic churches. << Well, actually, if I remember well, in L&C, Superman fought for 'Truth and Justice', and left the 'American way' out of the statement. >> You're right there, Helene; he (actually Lois) did leave out that part of the famous phrase, which, IMHO, was a good decision. Even without considering the fact that the show was broadcast in other countries (and Superman was frequently shown performing rescues in other countries), I know many people who would define "the American Way" as imperialistic, capitalistic, McDonaldalized, etc. LabRat wrote: <> And Kate responded: < That, I would disagree with. Most, if not all of my friends, family, associates, PTA fellow members, etc., still believe in "old-fashioned" virtues. I believe that mainstream America still holds to those principles of no outside of marriage sex. Granted, many stray, but still do not consider it appropriate behavior. > Someone mentioned that the morality of premarital sex depends on location, religion, etc. I wanted to add age to that list. I am in my early twenties and most of the people I know (some of whom are religious, some of whom are not) consider premarital sex as perfectly acceptable. Even those who I know are planning to wait until marriage are doing so not for religious reasons but because they have decided they want a commitment first. So even though I think the majority of Americans are not morally opposed to premarital sex, I think that majority is still growing. Christy attalanta@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:19:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Miz Lab: Thanks for mentioning The Circle Game. I'm honored to be included on the same page with all these authors whose writings I admire and enjoy so much. :) Jude ----- Original Message ----- From: "LabRat" To: Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) > James wrote: > > > > I could be tempted to read any good nfic that is > > marriage based. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > Well, James, just off the top of the heads of the #lanekent crew: > > The Circle Game - Jude > For The Greater Good - Wendy Richards > A Shot in the Dark - Sheila Harper > Walk In My Shoes - Sheila Harper > Revisionist History - Kathy Brown > When Day Breaks and Shadows Flee - Kathy Brown > Whiskey Galore - FlakeyDom > Most, if not all, of my own nfic vignettes are post-marriage: Moving the > Earth; Mile High; Wet 'n' Wild; Hearts and Showers; Puppy Dog's Tales; Beach > Bunnies; Inside Scoop; Hook, Line & Sinker; Challenge: Clark > Moments - Shayne Terry > > > There are bound to be many more and no doubt we've missed some excellent > stories and authors we'll be kicking ourselves over later. But for now...as > yea ask, so shall yea receive. ;) > > LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:28:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:20:12 -0800, JaT wrote: >I had not concidered nfic as being marriage >based. (read narrow-minded religious zealot) LOL! Now this is definitely a case of assuming too much! I don't have any hard statistics (Dia, this sounds like a case right up your alley ) but I would venture to say that the majority of L&C nfic is marriage based. Maybe even the vast majority? Of my own stories, 4 are marriage nfic ... Camping with Clark, Giving Thanks, Revisionist History, and Until Day Breaks and Shadows Flee. Let me know privately if you want me to send them to you. They are all fairly short (all under 60K) so you could sample nfic without committing to a long story. For longer stories, I think almost all of Sheila Harper's nfic is post- marriage: A Shot in the Dark, Faster than a Speeding Bullet, and Happy Birthday are all excellent choices. (Her Mxysplit and Walk in My Shoes are probably not good choices for a not-quite-sure-yet nfic reader. Very well done, but they deal with less "vanilla" topics.) I know other people will have other suggestions, but the bottom line is: Most L&C nfic is marriage-based. :) Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:23:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) Since the "Pushing the Envelope" topic veered off into other areas (thanks to those who changed the subject line accordingly -- very helpful and appreciated!), I wanted to get back to Hazel's original post, or at least my reaction to it. Namely, why are the PG-13 stories in the Archive getting more and more graphic? Some of you will find this ironic because I am an nfic writer myself -- but I agree with Hazel, and I would love to see nfic conversions *stop* pushing the envelope when it comes to their descriptions. As the EIC of the Archive, I have seen the same trend, and to be honest, it often annoys me. It makes my job as EIC a lot harder -- we have so many converted nfics these days (unlike Hazel, I think that *is* a primary cause) that my GEs always have to be extra careful about things. Which means I'm forever getting emails from my GEs asking "are these lines OK?" and more often than not, my answer is no! I agree with the nfic authors who have said that the reason they write nfic in the first place is to be able to address more adult topics, and to not have to worry about "is this OK to say?", either in sexual descriptions or banter/dialog. This is why I write it, too. It's also just plain fun for those of us who enjoy reading/writing it. :) But what I don't understand is why it's so hard for nfic authors to convert their stories down to PG-13. Why spend all this time deleting a word here and there, cutting as little as possible, trying to see how far you can push the envelope, when the scene doesn't have to be there? Why not just remove the whole section? I'm not talking about obvious "snips" -- I find them insulting to the reader. But what's wrong with doing a little extra work to smooth out the scene into a 'fade to black'? I just plain disagree with the statement that graphic sexual descriptions are essential to the plot of a PG story -- having the characters making love might very well be, but the specific descriptions, more often than not, are not. Now granted, some nfic scenes *are* necessary to the plot; I have never edited my "Winners" story down to PG, despite many requests, for just that reason -- the story is *about* sex, and how a committed couple decides when to take that step. Sex scenes aside, there is a lot of discussion between the characters about their past experiences, and how it led them to make the choices they have. I don't feel these can be removed or edited without losing something from the plot, so I choose not to remove them. What's more, I recognize the writer's desire to get all of our words out there for as many people to read as possible. We get very attached to our scenes, and are often loathe to delete them. But IMO, a good author is one who knows when a scene is extraneous. That doesn't mean that we all don't have personal reasons for certain scenes (many people have found my Karyn character and her scenes with Lois in "Winners" extraneous, but I had my reasons for keeping them in). But in the case of sexual activity and graphic descriptions, I think that a lot of authors have been taking the lazy way out. My opinion -- If an nfic story is good enough to convert to gfic, it should be able to stand on its own without the graphic sex. If you can't take out the sex and be left with a decent story, I say the story has no business being converted to gfic in the first place. And if a story is worth editing down to PG-13 (which most are), then the author shouldn't be resistant to removing the detailed sexual descriptions. Understand that I'm not talking about removing all kissing or make-out scenes, or all romantic/sexual banter. I would think most of you would know my own PG-13 work well enough to know I don't mean that! But I think in most cases, scenes can fade out before we get into specifics. Tweaking a graphic sex scene so that it still contains all the action (but removes a few off- limit words) may satisify the letter of the law, but I believe it violates the spirit. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:52:32 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower 2/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay - I am tired and I really didn't want to use the whole list thing, but I did anyway - be gentle! CM ***** It was already after four in the morning and since it was Saturday, she was supposed to meet Clark at about ten so they could spend the day together. She thought about going home and getting some sleep, but she was too wound up. Lois, being the investigative reporter that she was, came up with a plan. She knew that Clark was usually up early, but since he hadn't gone to sleep until almost four, she figured she had some time. She would come back around eight and see if she could catch him before he woke up and dressed. She remembered that Superman was wearing green and blue plaid boxers. She had seen Clark in his boxers on several occasions, but she had never seen those. That didn't mean anything, not really. She would knock on his door between seven thirty and eight and see what he was wearing. If Clark was wearing the green and blue boxers he was Superman. If he wasn't, then, well, they just looked a LOT alike. If he was already dressed, then she didn't know what she was going to do. That's why she had to get there early. Lois went to a nearby coffee shop to think things over. She didn't want to just show up unprepared no matter what happened. Her sleep-deprived mind was trying to come up with plausible explanations either way. She took out a piece of paper. The best way to for her to think was with pen in hand. She made two columns. Clark is Superman and Clark isn't Superman. She sighed. It was crazy. First she went through all of the reasons why Clark wasn't Superman. They were so obvious that she didn't even write them down. Glasses vs. no glasses. The biggest thing of course was the whole alien superhero thing. Clark was a nice guy, but a superhero? It just didn't seem possible. If Clark wasn't Superman, and Lois was pretty sure he wasn't, then why was he sleeping in Clark's apartment? There were few possible answers. One was just he needed a place to crash. Clark and Superman WERE good friends. But then where was Clark? She couldn't come up with a good answer, so she just skipped it. The other side was a little harder to deal with. Clark as Superman. Could it be true? Lois thought about it. She had always prided herself on being able to look at things that seemed unlikely and find a way to prove them, at least theoretically. She decided to try to prove that it was at least POSSIBLE that Clark was Superman. THINGS THAT COULD MEAN CLARK AND SUPERMAN ARE THE SAME PERSON 1. They have the similar color hair and it's about the same length 2. They both have brown eyes (but Superman's are better) 3. They are both muscular (but Superman is more so) 4. They are both good looking, in different ways 5. The only time they have been seen together was at the news conference 6. Clark never seemed to be around when Superman did a rescue, but always knew the details 7. Clark and Superman both knew where to get the best food - Superman often from overseas, Clark never tells - could it be overseas too? 8. Clark can get a hold of Superman and no one knows how 9. They are about the same height 10. Superman is sleeping in Clark's bed right now Lois sighed. She had to admit it was possible. She looked at her watch. It was only six-thirty. It was too early to go to Clark's yet, so she decided to start a new list. WHY CLARK WOULDN'T TELL ME HE'S SUPERMAN - IF HE REALLY IS 1. He's dumb 2. He doesn't trust me - but I know he does - I think 3. He's a geek 4. He doesn't trust me - or didn't trust me 5. He's a moron 6. He's trying to protect me - geek 7. He's a bozo brain 8. He's trying to protect others 9. He's a dweeb 10. He didn't trust me and now he doesn't know how to tell me Lois looked at the two lists that she had made. Numbers six and seven seemed to be the most convincing on the why Clark is Superman list. If Clark really was Superman it would explain why he ran off all the time. Cheese of the Month. Please. How dumb did he think she was? Lois almost jumped as she realized that she was starting to think like Clark really was Superman instead of just an odd set of coincidences. She looked at her watch again. It was almost seven-thirty. Time to go. She gathered her things and headed back down the street - stifling a yawn as she went. This was going to be a long day. She walked up the steps to Clark's apartment. Lois took a deep breath and knocked on the door. She heard Clark call from the inside and she waited nervously. He opened the door. She glanced down quickly. He was wearing blue jeans. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:08:10 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christy wrote: > Helene wrote: > << Does that mean that Catholic morality should prevalue and be made *the* > reference when it comes to morality? Imho, certainly not. >> > > One of my problems with the phrase Christian (or Catholic) Morality is that > there are so many types of Christianity, even different types of Catholicism. Yes, I'm aware of that, and it wasn't my intention to make a generalisation, I'm sorry if that got misunderstood. My point was referring to the specific example of the French Catholic Church (I don't think there are several types of Catholicism, here, although I could be wrong), but what I meant was that even though France (and here again, that's a specific example, taken just to illustrate a point) has been officially Catholic during many centuries, and the Catholic Church has had a strong influence on French culture, I don't think *any* religious morality (Christian or other) should prevalue and be made the reference. Religion, imho, is a private thing, and it shouldn't enter the game when it comes to a wider, more general definition of morality. It's each individual's own business to lead their life the way they want, as long as they respect the 'general morality' (not killing, respecting the laws, respecting other people's freedom and opinion, and so on). Which is why (to link this back to the Superman debate ), imho, Lois and Clark can't have waited until their wedding night for religious reasons. If making love before marriage had jeopardised someone else's life, or had been a danger to Superman's ethics, then yes, I could understand that Clark/Superman would have considered it a matter of morality. But as far as I know, it was a private thing between Lois and Clark, and no-one but them was concerned by the matter. Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:08:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) Kathy, we discussed this on IRC last night; Sheila's ASITD is post-marriage in the PG version, but the original nfic is actually set during their engagement. Wendy ------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:26:16 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nicole Wolke Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They orShouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy Richards wrote: > Kathy, we discussed this on IRC last night; Sheila's ASITD is post-marriage > in the PG version, but the original nfic is actually set during their > engagement. Wendy, are you sure? I think I have read the nfic version of "A shot in the Dark" a zillion times and I've alsways assumed it post-marriage! They're living together and there's this scene where Clark flies to Smallville to talk to his father... Where is it mentioned that they're just engaged? Nicole -- AKA CKgroupie on IRC/AIM NKWolke@t-online.de Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain? And you don't have enough time to search? Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page" http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:30:11 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > But what I don't understand is why it's so hard for nfic authors to convert > their stories down to PG-13. Why spend all this time deleting a word here > and there, cutting as little as possible, trying to see how far you can push > the envelope, when the scene doesn't have to be there? Why not just remove > the whole section? I don't think nfic writers are trying to see how far they can 'push the envelope'. Imho, their main reason for keeping the gist of the scenes and replacing the 'offending' word or body part is the *need* of those scenes for the real depth of the story. It's not the case of every nfic out there, but lots of nfics (most of those that are - very skilfully - converted) have entire plot devices depending on the intimate relationship between Lois and Clark. Take Yvonne's wonderful 'Fear of Discovery III', for example. I've read the nfic version of this fanfic, and I know some of the themes Yvonne deals with are developed in graphic scenes, and *needed* to be dealt with that way. Cutting them completely would simply take a lot of meaningful and very interesting insights out of this fic, whereas what Yvonne wrote was a very in-depth study of Lois's and Clark's characters, their insecurities, their background, and how it affected them on every level of their relationship (including the intimate level). Yet should Yvonne have deprived the PG readers of this story, because it deals with adult themes? Imho, if people considered this fanfic not suitable for conversion, then many other fanfics (converted nfics or originally PG stories - probably including one of mines), would have to be taken out of the Archive and considered not suitable as well. I used to be a PG-only-reader, because I was convinced that nfic scenes weren't necessary to stories. However, I did enjoy (still enjoy) the occasional steamy scene in a PG-13 story, and the reason why I decided to read nfic was because I'd read a PG-13 story which featured very sensual and extremely well written foreplay (which was completely suitable for PG, I hasten to add). If I hadn't read this story, I probably still wouldn't read nfics, and knowing how well and tastefully some of our nfic writers handle such scenes, I'd be missing a lot. I'm not saying people who don't read nfic should do so, not at all. Just that steamy scenes in PG fics never shocked me, and I never thought the envelope was being pushed and some scenes were over the PG-13 rating (but then, this discussion has shown that many people have a different concept of the PG-13 limit). I know the problem is to know whether steamy scenes have their place on the L&C PG Archive. True, there are many fans who're under 18 on this fandom, and their parents expect the Archive to provide 'safe' reading material for them. But in the same vein, we could always wonder whether violent scenes have their place in the PG Archive. Even with a warning. Shayne's excellent 'Dear Lois' featured violence and if I remember well, it had a violence warning. But it wasn't gratuitous violence in any way, and it was part of what Shayne dealt with in his premise. Should it have been considered an adult fic only? Here again, I don't think so. Why would violence be any different than love scenes? When it's part of the story, and treated tastefully, without going overboard, I don't see why such devices should be cut out of the story, whether we're dealing with violent scenes or love scenes. Would a warning for 'steamy scenes', in the same way we have a warning for violent scenes, work? > I'm not talking about obvious "snips" -- I find them > insulting to the reader. But what's wrong with doing a little extra work to > smooth out the scene into a 'fade to black'? I just plain disagree with the > statement that graphic sexual descriptions are essential to the plot of a PG > story -- having the characters making love might very well be, but the > specific descriptions, more often than not, are not. Again, it depends on the fanfic. I'd agree with you on some stories (in which case I'll be more likely to read the PG version, because I don't like reading nfic scenes for the sake of 'sex'), but many stories involve in-depth plot devices that wouldn't possibly be dealt with something like 'He carried her to the bedroom and made senseless love to her' - fade to black. Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 06:33:11 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They orShouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read the nfic version of ASITD, and in it they're married. I believe you're thinking of FTASB instead. In the PG version they're married, but in the nfic version, they're just engaged. Nan Nicole Wolke wrote: > Wendy Richards wrote: > > > Kathy, we discussed this on IRC last night; Sheila's ASITD is post-marriage > > in the PG version, but the original nfic is actually set during their > > engagement. > > Wendy, are you sure? I think I have read the nfic version of "A shot in > the Dark" a zillion times and I've alsways assumed it post-marriage! > They're living together and there's this scene where Clark flies to > Smallville to talk to his father... > > Where is it mentioned that they're just engaged? > > Nicole > -- > AKA CKgroupie on IRC/AIM > NKWolke@t-online.de > > Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain? > And you don't have enough time to search? > Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page" > http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:43:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They orShouldn't They?) Well, we'd need Sheila to confirm this, but I remember that I read the nfic version after the PG one and was confused about the differences. Lois is still living in her apartment, and Clark goes home with her; they're talking fairly animatedly about something, and end up falling into bed together despite their resolve to wait. And then he flies off to save Prometheus. When Clark returns, three years later, he moves into Lois's apartment with her and their son. But they were certainly engaged rather than married; we discussed this on IRC last night and those of us who'd read both were all certain on that point. The timeline was shifted for the PG version to fit in with S5. Wendy --------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:46:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 - Clarification!! Sorry, sorry, sorry!!! I'm getting my Sheila stories mixed up! I said ASITD, when of course I meant FTASB (Faster Than A Speeding Bullet). No wonder you were confused, Nicky! Wendy (blushing) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:09:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) I've just read Helene's post, and I agree with what she says in relation to some love scenes being integral to the plot. But there's another point I want to make here too. Kathy, thanks for being honest about what you think: you're the Archive EIC and what you say goes in this area. Now you've said that you think some stories go too far in including scenes/descriptions/language which isn't quite PG13, I know I for one will be more careful, both as a writer and as an editor. But here's my biggest problem: *how can I draw the line, for myself and other writers, when I don't feel confident that I know where it should be drawn?* I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only editor, let alone writer, who feels this way. Several times in the past, people - myself included - have asked on the list where lines should be drawn. Kathy, among others, has tried to help, but I know I've still ended up confused and trying to rely on my instincts, which may or may not be right. (And I'm discovering that my instincts were *not* right in respect of the PG13 version of Faux Pas, currently being GEd). It really doesn't help to be told to imagine what could be shown on TV at around 8pm, as was suggested a couple of times: as several of us from various countries have pointed out over the last few days, standards vary enormously as to what can be shown. I simply don't know what would apply to US TV. And, much as I try to use L&C as a guide, there are those scenes which were edited out by the BBC for 6pm showings, and some of them contain quite explicit references. There's also the question of the written word as opposed to the filmed scene. Even if we're not describing a scene explicitly, is it okay to imply that a couple is naked on a bed? Or must we mention the sheet drawn carefully up around them? (Do you see why I'm confused? ). A couple of days ago on the message boards, I asked Jeff Brogden to give some examples of scenes which trespassed his own boundaries; I gave him permission to quote any of my own stories if he wished. He very helpfully dissected a couple of scenes from Just Another Undercover Assignment and explained why they bothered him. As it happens, I still didn't think any of the references he picked out went beyond PG13 (still don't, even after Kathy's post), but Jeff's explanation of his reservations certainly taught me a lot about why some readers are showing concern here. It's much easier to understand with concrete examples, rather than talking in the abstract. Jeff also made up a scene which he said would really trespass his personal boundaries; as it happens, I felt - and told him - that it wouldn't pass as PG13 anyway. (If anyone would like to read the fascinating discussion in that thread, and see Jeff's examples, it's here: http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/004895.html Jeff's examples start a little over half-way down the thread). Anyway, to sum up: I know it's very likely that I've crossed that line Kathy's referring to a few times. But I assure you, Kathy, tnat it's *not* from some sort of perverse wish to 'push the envelope'; it's simply from not being at all sure where that envelope should lie! (And, when I consider that someone said on IRC the other night that they'd been advised to use Debs Manning's Rubber Duckie as a guide - a story I know was added to the Archive in earlier days and which I'm sure I've heard Kathy suggest wouldn't be accepted in its current form now - it seems that I'm far from being the only one!). So - seeking help and understanding here, not condemnation! Wendy ----------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:27:05 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kate wrote: > > And of course the opposite could be stated as well....the need for hard > statistical evidence that the majority of the people in the US don't have a > problem with pre-marital sex ;).... Absolutely. Which is probably why, having done the considering I mentioned in my last post [g] over the course of last evening, I probably wouldn't make any changes in future fic even if such statistical evidence either way was produced. For two reasons I think. Firstly, I don't actually think that the world of LNC can be so firmly linked to ours. Metropolis never seemed to me to be entirely based on the contemporary world we live in. For one thing it's level of technology was often several years in advance of ours. So the opinions of the contemporary US on any subject, probably wouldn't influence me in any sense, having thought seriously about it. Now, if anyone could produce statistical evidence either way from Metropolis, that would be a different matter. ;) Secondly, because I don't believe there was ever any hint in the show that Clark or Lois had any particular views on the morality of pre-marital sex one way or another. They waited because it was right for them as individuals as far as I saw. Not through any deeply held moral or religious beliefs on the subject. This is, of course, only the way *I* intend to proceed at a personal level with my characters. And I don't necessarily expect any other author to follow suit. Or even agree. [g] > > Labrat, you were very kind in your reply, I thank you, and apologize about > the need to fwd, I thought that problem was over so I didn't even check > before hitting reply. > [No problem there, Kate. It's no one posting's fault that there's a glitch and it only takes a second to hit fwd on posts which accidentally come to me. Doesn't bother me at all. :) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:22:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: LNC Script??? This looks interesting, John, and I'll certainly read it when I get time. However, I was surprised to see this in Eliot Maggin's introduction: >>>I thought Dean Cain was terrific -- to my surprise and to that of the people who had first cast him as a last resort.<<< >From everything I've ever read, Dean Cain certainly wasn't cast as a last resort. He was cast, I believe, because, out of the actors on their shortlist, he had the best chemistry with Teri Hatcher. Now, I'm not an expert and could be wrong... anyone else? Wendy --------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:30:23 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jude wrote: > Hey Miz Lab: Thanks for mentioning The Circle Game. I'm honored to be > included on the same page with all these authors whose writings I admire and > enjoy so much. :) Jude Hey, don't thank me, Jude. This wasn't my list of personal choices. Not that I don't agree with it, I hasten to add. [g] Circle Game was one of the first fic to be mentioned by two or three people on #lanekent last night when I asked out of curiosity which fic would qualify. :) The list was from quite a few people. All that I did was jot down the names being yelled out and gathered them into a post. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:39:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 - Clarification!! On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:46:15 -0500, Wendy Richards < wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote: >Sorry, sorry, sorry!!! I'm getting my Sheila stories mixed up! I said >ASITD, when of course I meant FTASB (Faster Than A Speeding Bullet). No >wonder you were confused, Nicky! Whew! You had my head spinning, Wendy! I beta-read/edited both of these stories, and I *knew* they were married in ASITD. LOL! As for FTASB, you are right -- the original nfic had them engaged, then Sheila rewrote it as a post-marriage fic for S5. Since that's the version that came later, that's the one I was remembering. So to James or anyone else who wants to read married nfic -- Sheila's "A Shot in the Dark" is safe, but her "Faster That A Speeding Bullet" is not. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:43:05 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wanda McCants Subject: Re: Superman's Shower MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great writing. Wanda "What happens to a dream deferred? / Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun?" ......Langston Hughes Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:49:51 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > But what I don't understand is why it's so hard for nfic authors to convert > their stories down to PG-13. Why spend all this time deleting a word here > and there, cutting as little as possible, trying to see how far you can push > the envelope, when the scene doesn't have to be there? Why not just remove the whole section? I'm not talking about obvious "snips" -- I find them > insulting to the reader. But what's wrong with doing a little extra work to > smooth out the scene into a 'fade to black'? I just plain disagree with the > statement that graphic sexual descriptions are essential to the plot of a PG > story -- having the characters making love might very well be, but the > specific descriptions, more often than not, are not. > Well, I can only answer this one for myself, Kathy, but I suspect the answer is actually very simple if others are doing the same as I am. If there is an obvious nfic scene in one of my fic that can be deleted in its entirety then absolutely I'll cut it out. Why give yourself extra hassle trying to salvage any of it for a gfic conversion if it's not necessary to the plot, I say! Geez, it's hard enough as it is trying to balance what one reader will accept without blinking and another will run to send you a flaming email on. (Fortunately haven't had any of the latter so far. Phew.) Slicing out whole scenes - as I was mostly able to do with the conversion of Caped Fear for example - is the easy stuff. That's why it was my easiest conversion to date and the one which cost me the least time, headaches and hassle. I doubt that there are any authors out there deliberately taking the hard course! If there are they need to book in with Dr. Friskin. ;) But there are often scenes - at least in my nfic and I would presume the same applies to other authors too - which simply have to be pared down rather than deleted entirely. If for no more reason than they contain one line which is absolutely essential to the plot and would bring the entire fic crashing down into nonsense without it. And then there's the setup for that line...which may be surrounded by sexual banter or some sexual contact, so that has to be pared and amended and softened and the details removed without destroying the intent of the narrative...and so on and so on... Basically conversion is like building a tower of dominoes. Push one and the rest of the fic falls over. Remove one line, another becomes critical. Everything is interconnected, one moment leads into another, and it's hard to slice one instant at times without having to remove an entire three paras further along which are vital to the plot where the single line wasn't. > Now granted, some nfic scenes *are* necessary to the plot; I have never > edited my "Winners" story down to PG, despite many requests, for just that > reason -- the story is *about* sex, and how a committed couple decides when> to take that step. [And there will always be nfic which cannot be sufficiently pared and converted, this is true. But I still believe there are others than can fall between the two extremes with careful conversion.] > But IMO, a good author is one who knows when a scene is extraneous. That> doesn't mean that we all don't have personal reasons for certain scenes (many> people have found my Karyn character and her scenes with Lois in "Winners"> extraneous, but I had my reasons for keeping them in). But in the case of> sexual activity and graphic descriptions, I think that a lot of authors have> been taking the lazy way out. > [I would hope that I'm not included in that list, Kathy. I take an extremely firm view when converting and I never leave a scene in because I can't bear to delete it. If that was the case, the entire point of conversion would be lost as far as I'm concerned. My only problem with conversion is trying to figure out where the line is as it is so fluid depending on the individual reader. I follow the guidelines as far as I can and I'm diligent about removing as much as possible to make the gfic readable. As I've said earlier on this subject if my motivation was to try to get away with as much as I could and push as far as I could without repercusions that would be illogical imo. The entire point is to produce a fic that those who do not like nfic are happy to read. It seems a complete non sequitor to me to try to con them into reading by default. I'm not claiming that I always succeed, but I would hope that it would at least be recognised that I *try* my darndest to succeed and take the responsiblities inherent in conversion seriously. It is hard work, but I do it because I think it's worth the effort. Considering the time and hassle it takes, I certainly wouldn't appreciate being tagged as a lazy author in this regard. LabRat :) > My opinion -- If an nfic story is good enough to convert to gfic, it should > be able to stand on its own without the graphic sex. If you can't take out > the sex and be left with a decent story, I say the story has no business > being converted to gfic in the first place. And if a story is worth editing > down to PG-13 (which most are), then the author shouldn't be resistant to > removing the detailed sexual descriptions. > > Understand that I'm not talking about removing all kissing or make-out > scenes, or all romantic/sexual banter. I would think most of you would know > my own PG-13 work well enough to know I don't mean that! But I think in most > cases, scenes can fade out before we get into specifics. Tweaking a graphic > sex scene so that it still contains all the action (but removes a few off- > limit words) may satisify the letter of the law, but I believe it violates > the spirit. > > Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:07:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:30:11 +0100, Kaethel wrote: >I don't think nfic writers are trying to see how far they can 'push the >envelope'. Imho, their main reason for keeping the gist of the scenes and >replacing the 'offending' word or body part is the *need* of those scenes >for the real depth of the story. It's not the case of every nfic out there, >but lots of nfics (most of those that are - very skilfully - converted) have >entire plot devices depending on the intimate relationship between Lois and >Clark. As far as the adult situations/discussions are concerned, I agree with you, Helene. Emotional responses are usually integral to a story's plot. But what exactly is gained by a blow by blow of the entire sex act? For example, what does an author lose by saying "Lois pressed herself against Clark and he responded passionately" as opposed to describing exactly what she felt as she was pressed against him and where she felt it? Or by saying "they made love with a urgency they hadn't felt in months" as opposed to describing exactly what about their actions made things feel urgent? Keep the specific descriptions in the nfic version. So I disagree with you when it comes to detailed physical descriptions, at least not in the way we've been seeing them recently. A phrase or reference or sexual euphemism here and there isn't what I'm talking about -- they are fun and exactly what I would expect to see in a PG-13 story. But an entire detailed scene, where we see *everything* only without the specific "off limit words" is what I'm concerned about. To clarify, I am not against nfic. (I would think most of you would be laughing right now at the thought that I might be a prude. If you're not sure, read some of my NC-17 stories. ;)) Which is one of the reasons I've decided to express my opinion on this -- if *I'm* seeing a lot of things that make me uncomfortable/uncertain about a PG-13 story, what are people who are more conservative thinking? From the reactions on this thread (and the ones on the MB, which I caught up on late last night), obviously this is something that a lot of people have noticed. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: cdcherry@bestweb.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Cd Cherry Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) Comments: To: Lois@bestweb.net, and@bestweb.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Though I'm a dyed in the wool nfic reader, I have to say that if a more graphic scene can be cut completely from a story to lower the rating with nothing substantial lost from the story, I have to wonder why it's there in the first place, other than to titillate. On another list I'm on, someone posted their difficulty in writing more intimate scenes for their stories, and the responses were very interesting--especially in a fandom where the overwhelming bulk of stories are rated at least r. The main gist of the advice given was not to force those scenes, to think about what you're trying to portray by the lovemaking--is this more character development, insight into their relationship, or is it simply just... voyeurism. The voyeurism, well that can just fade to black as Clark carries Lois off to the bedroom, or the cave, or Perry's office, or wherever . But when an author has used their lovemaking to convey something more, that's when it's very difficult to tone it down to a PG rating. But right there, that's what I read nfic for. cerise >> But what I don't understand is why it's so hard for nfic authors to convert >> their stories down to PG-13. Why spend all this time deleting a word here >> and there, cutting as little as possible, trying to see how far you canpush >> the envelope, when the scene doesn't have to be there? Why not just remove >> the whole section? > >I don't think nfic writers are trying to see how far they can 'push the >envelope'. Imho, their main reason for keeping the gist of the scenes and >replacing the 'offending' word or body part is the *need* of those scenes >for the real depth of the story. It's not the case of every nfic out there, >but lots of nfics (most of those that are - very skilfully - converted) have >entire plot devices depending on the intimate relationship between Lois and >Clark. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:25:05 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << But IMO, a good author is one who knows when a scene is extraneous. >> I definitely agree with you here, Kathy, and this touches on something posted earlier in this thread when someone asked whether longer is better or just... longer. A writing professor once told my class that the hardest thing to do when writing is to remove a scene that you like, but which does not contribute to the story. Though I am not an nfic author, I think the problems nfic authors have in converting their stories to general audience fic is a reflection of the difficulty in deleting *any* scenes from a story. I know I've read several fics and wondered why particular scenes were included. At the point they appear in the story they *seem* unnecessary and I often reach the end of the story and realize that they *were* unnecessary, unless there was something extremely subtle going on there. And this probably isn't the case, I realized after a beta reader mentioned that I sometimes have a unique writing problem among folcs in that I'm too subtle ;) Wendy wrote: << It really doesn't help to be told to imagine what could be shown on TV at around 8pm, as was suggested a couple of times: as several of us from various countries have pointed out over the last few days, standards vary enormously as to what can be shown. >> And, even if you look at 8 pm TV in the US, standards have changed a lot over the past few years. I remember it being a big deal that Lois had to call Clark a "very patient man" rather than a "virgin" in VD. Now, though, I sometimes watch TV shows airing at 8 pm in amazement at the sexual references, descriptions, and jokes that are allowed to be left in. So even if writers do follow this 8 pm guideline, the depth of sexual content they show will likely vary depending on when they wrote the story. Christy attalanta@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) One of the interesting things about a broad thread like this is that everyone has their own "hot topics". For some, it's adult situations -- should stories dealing with war or rape or child abuse be considered nfic. For others, it's sexual euphemism and adult conversation. Neither of these concerns me at present -- so far, I haven't noticed many specific cases where I think people have gone too far, and I haven't received many complaints from readers. (Some stories have received violence warnings as a result of conversations with GEs and authors, and I feel this has been a good solution so far -- if anyone disagrees or thinks we missed a story that requires one, I welcome their feedback.) So to clarify -- *my* topic in this discussion is the detailed sexual descriptions. I have not found reason to be concerned about an increase in graphic dialog, nor in overall adult story-lines. What I have seen is a marked increase in sexual descriptions. So that's what I'm addressing. On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:09:24 -0500, Wendy Richards < wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote: >But here's my biggest problem: *how can I draw the line, for myself and >other writers, when I don't feel confident that I know where it should be >drawn?* And this is the crux of the problem, Wendy. Let me emphasize that, like Hazel, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular. I might have some scenes in mind, but that's mainly because it's the "question of the week" and not because it's the only incidence of it. This is also why there is inconsistency in the Archive itself -- I don't review every story, and each GE is going to have their own standard of what's "too much". As you yourself have expressed, it's hard -- impossible -- for me to publish exact guidelines because there are so many different situations. Context means too much! This is also why the opinions of the many non-US authors (here and on the MB) have been so interesting. I feel it's important for the Archive editing staff to recognize that what we consider "late night TV" might be seen during "prime time" (while kids are watching) in Europe. Or vice-versa. But I definitely feel that authors lately have been choosing to err on the "leave it until they make me remove it" side as opposed to the "if in doubt, take it out" side. And this is a more recent phenomenon; it just wasn't much of an issue a year or two ago, which is why it was brought up in the first place. >There's also the question of the written word as opposed to the filmed >scene. Even if we're not describing a scene explicitly, is it okay to imply >that a couple is naked on a bed? Or must we mention the sheet drawn >carefully up around them? (Do you see why I'm confused? ). This is why I say that context is important. If we say "no nudity", we're essentially saying no one can take a shower unless they are in a swimsuit -- ridiculous. If the couple has just finished making love, we can assume they are unclothed -- we don't need a detailed description of the fact. If they are cuddling afterwards and discussing something essential to the plot, does it matter if they are clothed or unclothed? If not, then there is no reason to mention it one way or the other -- let the reader use his/her imagination. But if it is absolutely essential that they be nude during the discussion and the fact that they are nude must be described in detail, I'd venture that this story may not be a good candidate for gfic conversion in the first place. It's not the fact that they are nude -- or are making love -- it's how detailed the author gets in describing the scene. And I simply don't buy the argument that detailed physical descriptions of sexual activity are essential to the plot. I think LabRat said it very well in her post -- the point of a conversion is to allow as many people to read the story as possible, *not* to trick them into reading an nfic by default. Leaving in the detailed physical descriptions feels like this to me, like using a loophole to ensure that readers see "everything but" the final specific act. >A couple of days ago on the message boards, I asked Jeff Brogden to give >some examples of scenes which trespassed his own boundaries; I gave him >permission to quote any of my own stories if he wished. He very helpfully >dissected a couple of scenes from Just Another Undercover Assignment and >explained why they bothered him. As it happens, I still didn't think any of >the references he picked out went beyond PG13 (still don't, even after >Kathy's post), I agree, Wendy -- I don't think the things he mentioned are beyond PG-13 either (by movie/TV standards, or by Archive standards), but regardless, his analysis was *fascinating*. As a parent myself, I understood exactly what he was saying. He did an outstanding job of explaining the sorts of decisions parents go through when "screening" material for their pre-teen/teenage children, and expressing that the things *he* wants to read in a PG-13 story (or an nfic) are not the same things he'd want to see in a story that his future 13-15 year old daughter would be reading. So I second Wendy's recommendation of this MB discussion ... very well done, Jeff. >http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/004895.html Jeff's >examples start a little over half-way down the thread). >(And, when I consider that someone said on IRC the other night that they'd >been advised to use Debs Manning's Rubber Duckie as a guide - a story I >know was added to the Archive in earlier days and which I'm sure I've heard >Kathy suggest wouldn't be accepted in its current form now - it seems that >I'm far from being the only one!). I'm not sure who told whom to use "Rubber Ducky" as a guide ... I don't recall doing it myself, but that's not to say I didn't at some point over the last 3 1/2 years. I haven't read it in awhile, but yes, I do think that if it were to be submitted today, I'd ask that it be toned down. Though maybe in comparison to some of the nfic conversions that have gone up over the last year, it might not be so extreme anymore. ;) Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:22:24 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurie wrote: > > I know I've read several fics and wondered why particular scenes were > included. At the point they appear in the story they *seem* unnecessary and Christy wrote: I often reach the end of the story and realize that they *were* unnecessary, > unless there was something extremely subtle going on there. And this probably> isn't the case, I realized after a beta reader mentioned that I sometimes> have a unique writing problem among folcs in that I'm too subtle ;) > While I take note of your point here, Christy and agree with it almost entirely, there is a small point I want to make here. Not sure if this will make any sense at all, but anyway... [g] Although I don't think this is what you're referring to per se here with your point I would just note that I for one do not always restrict myself to ensuring that every possible scene in a fic advances the plot or is necessary in this sense. Real Life doesn't come in that neat a package so I like to make my stories reflect that at times. Sometimes in RL a moment just happens. It has no reason to it, it just is. Sometimes I like to include moments like this in my fic too. It often irks me for example when a fic which deals with some kind of mystery has every single moment and every single scene devoted to providing some clue or red herring or other plot development. I hasten to add here that so far I haven't read such a fic in FoLCdom, but I have elsewhere in the past. Sometimes a scene is just a scene for me. It may have no other purpose than to deliver a particular moment that I wanted to explore. If I was publishing my stories for payment at a professional level I obviously wouldn't be able to indulge myself this way. But I'm not and so I feel no obligation not to, I'm afraid. > Now, though, I sometimes watch TV shows airing at 8 pm in amazement at the> sexual references, descriptions, and jokes that are allowed to be left in. So> even if writers do follow this 8 pm guideline, the depth of sexual content > they show will likely vary depending on when they wrote the story. > This is an interesting point, Christy, which I hadn't considered until you mentioned it. Also very true. I have been quite astonished at times watching the current seasons of Buffy and Angel as to what is being slipped through the net recently. I don't have any problems watching, but there has been a definite shift in adult banter and language in both shows which wasn't present before, to a point where I often sit open mouthed wondering where the US censor was that particular week. Even as I fall over laughing at the humour. ;) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:16:26 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/01 11:29:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, kathybrown91@HOME.COM writes: > : Most > L&C nfic is marriage-based. :) > Most definitely. The one writer whom I can think of who was left off the list was Menolly. Her lyrical nfics also deal with a married relationship. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:24:30 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > As far as the adult situations/discussions are concerned, I agree with you, > Helene. Emotional responses are usually integral to a story's plot. But what > exactly is gained by a blow by blow of the entire sex act? I doubt it ever happened, or if it did, I certainly didn't read any PG fic that featured a 'blow by blow' description of a sexual encounter. Sensual foreplay, carefully worded so that it's suitable for PG, and describing emotions and feelings, yes. But complete graphic description? No, I never saw any PG fic that was like that. > For example, what > does an author lose by saying "Lois pressed herself against Clark and he > responded passionately" as opposed to describing exactly what she felt as she > was pressed against him and where she felt it? Or by saying "they made love > with a urgency they hadn't felt in months" as opposed to describing exactly > what about their actions made things feel urgent? Keep the specific > descriptions in the nfic version. This is where I disagree. I'm sorry, but 'Lois pressed herself against Clark and he responded passionately' looks too physical to me. No emotions, and therefore no real need for the story. I'm not saying that it would be bad that such a sentence be included in a fic, just that if a love scene is the centre of a a major plot device (extreme cases like your Winners, or Wendy's Without Consent notwithstanding), then that sentence won't make be able to carry the meaning the author wanted to put in his/her scene. If you take the example of my Near Wild Heaven, which features a rather long foreplay scene, I didn't write the love scene for the sake of it, but because I thought it was important to the plot that readers knew exactly what was going on in Lois's and Clark's head as they got carried away. Without that scene, this particular plot device wouldn't make any sense. I couldn't have got away with a 'fade to black' thing, nor with only partial physical description. I needed to write about the characters' feelings and sensations as they started making love, because otherwise, readers could have wondered *why* they got carried away, considering their situation. Yet Near Wild Heaven is a PG fic, and not even a converted nfic. Or again, if you take Yvonne's Fear of Discovery III, the two main lovemaking scenes deal with Lois's emotional trauma and Clark's insecurities, and cutting them out just doesn't work, because it would have left lots of loose ends to the psychological aspect of the story. Over on the boards, there have been suggestions of specific ratings, but I believe they were specified for nfics, so as to allow fics that don't contain any sexual act to be posted as nfic. But like I suggested in my earlier post, how about having an Archive warning for steamy, the same way there's a warning for violence? Helene :) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:34:02 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann wrote: > > Most definitely. The one writer whom I can think of who was left off the > list was Menolly. Her lyrical nfics also deal with a married relationship. > Yes, Ann, Menolly's wonderful Dayzs series was the one we were all kicking ourselves over after I posted. I think it was precisely 2.5 seconds after I hit send that someone on channel said, "Hey, what about...?' LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 15:31:57 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: LNC Script??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/24/01 12:23:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: > >>>I thought Dean Cain was terrific -- to my surprise and to that of the > people who had first cast him as a last resort.<<< > > From everything I've ever read, Dean Cain certainly wasn't cast as a last > resort. He was cast, I believe, because, out of the actors on their > shortlist, he had the best chemistry with Teri Hatcher. Now, I'm not an > expert and could be wrong... anyone else? > Wendy, I've always heard and read the same thing as you have described. He did have to go through several auditions, I believe. I think I've read that another factor in his favor was that teenaged girls who saw him when he came to audition were all going crazy because he was so cute. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 14:37:21 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Before or After Marriage: Beyond PG-13 (Was Should They or Shouldn't They?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm very late getting on today so this discussion may be over, but just wanted to add a word or two. LabRat and the #lanekent crew (an appreciative thank you to them)were kind enough to mention The Circle Game on a list of nfics that James might want to read. It's the only nfic I've written so far and I did convert it to fanfic with the help of Sue Zabell and LabRat who consulted Kathy along the way. It was difficult to convert because of one scene which is crucial to the story. I re-wrote several descriptions for it and ended up liking the re-writes so much that I included them in the original nfic before I sent it to Joy for distribution. When LabRat and I were discussing the difficult areas, I explained to her that I had included some language, not because I wanted to push the envelope, but because I had no real idea of where the line was drawn, and wanted to have a clearer concept about it the next time. To be honest, Sue and Labby questioned some things that I didn't think were over the line, and Kathy okayed some things that surprised me. I'm still not sure where the line is but I have a better idea than I did before. I find it extremely hard to write graphic nfic and therefore look for original euphemisms to use, but, frankly, they're almost impossible to find. I don't know if I'll write any more nfic for that reason. I recently wrote and posted a fanfic, Married With Children, which has some very obvious places where it could be turned into an nfic. I tried to do it, and found that it just seemed forced and it still sits in my computer blinking and demanding to be finished as an nfic. Converting either way is not easy. My current story in production is a fanfic and will probably stay that way. Those who can write good nfic and then convert it to good fanfic have my greatest respect. Even in the nfic area, I have found some things that are disturbing to me. I recently read an excellent nfic which had an n scene that, to me, portrayed abuse disguised as caring. I'm quite sure the writer thought she was portraying love, but it made me very uncomfortable and, in effect, destroyed my enjoyment of the story. IMO, nfic writers need to be careful also that what they're writing doesn't leave an impression they hadn't intended. :) Jude ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:31:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: Debby Subject: What heros do Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm on a Superman chat list and there is a prolonged chat about Action comics #775 versus Kingdom Come graphic novel because the themes are similar. One list member wrote about what heros do thusly... "The hero is supposed to prevent the villain from getting away with his crime; return the money; defend the frontier; keep the bridge from falling; change the course of mighty rivers; build treehouses; discover cures; solve mysteries; expose frauds; repair dimensional rifts; imprison the villain; laugh at torture; foil plots; topple tyrants; block the bullet; see through the fake moustache; light the way; enlarge the shrunken city; find the lost treasure; swallow the grenade; hold the earth on his shoulders; ride the comet; pet the dog; and generally go about saying "Not this time, Luthor!". I added that it's nice if the hero/hera gets his significant other without much messing around by TPTB and then proceeds to lose his/her virginity to that person because he/she waited. I also want them to live happily ever after, after more harrowing experiences that make us doubt they'll survive :) Debby huitziln@cais.net (through 02/28/01) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:42:47 +0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Dom Melaragni Subject: Re: LNC Script??? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > >>>I thought Dean Cain was terrific -- to my surprise and to that of the >people who had first cast him as a last resort.<<< > > >From everything I've ever read, Dean Cain certainly wasn't cast as a last >resort. He was cast, I believe, because, out of the actors on their >shortlist, he had the best chemistry with Teri Hatcher. Now, I'm not an >expert and could be wrong... anyone else? I seem to recall that it had come down to two - Dean and Kevin Sorbo(?) who ended up being Hercules. I recall being told that Kevin was partly favoured because he had Superman's blue eyes and a stronger chin. But it was Dean who got the receptionists / secretaries and every woman in the casting office's attention - what taste they had! Dom ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:21:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Jury, Karen E." Subject: Re: LNC Script??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There is a detailed article about the history of LnC that I found at Jeff Sykes' site (a very nice overall site, btw, esp. for those seeking episode info.) It talks about Dean beating out Kevin Sorbo. Here's the URL: http://www.neumedia.net/~sykes/lc/index.html, then click on the L&C History at the top. I have my own personal observation about this to share. Look at Christopher Reeve, look at Kevin Sorbo. Look at Christopher Reeve, look at Dean Cain. It seems simple to me. Karen > ---------- > From: Dom Melaragni[SMTP:dom.mel@BTINTERNET.COM] > Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 6:42 PM > To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU > Subject: Re: LNC Script??? > > > > > > > >>>I thought Dean Cain was terrific -- to my surprise and to that of the > >people who had first cast him as a last resort.<<< > > > > >From everything I've ever read, Dean Cain certainly wasn't cast as a > last > >resort. He was cast, I believe, because, out of the actors on their > >shortlist, he had the best chemistry with Teri Hatcher. Now, I'm not an > >expert and could be wrong... anyone else? > > I seem to recall that it had come down to two - Dean and Kevin Sorbo(?) > who > ended up being Hercules. I recall being told that Kevin was partly > favoured because he had Superman's blue eyes and a stronger chin. But it > was Dean who got the receptionists / secretaries and every woman in the > casting office's attention - what taste they had! > > Dom > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:34:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:24:30 +0100, Kaethel wrote: >This is where I disagree. I'm sorry, but 'Lois pressed herself against Clark >and he responded passionately' looks too physical to me. No emotions, and >therefore no real need for the story. I think we keep talking in circles, comparing apples to oranges. I'm not talking about emotional reactions -- I'm talking about physical ones. I think a good author can convey what is going on in a character's head without getting overly specific about what body part is being touched and in what way. >If you take the example of my Near Wild Heaven, >I needed to write about the characters' feelings and >sensations as they started making love, because otherwise, readers could >have wondered *why* they got carried away, considering their situation. Yet >Near Wild Heaven is a PG fic, and not even a converted nfic. I haven't read it yet, so I can't comment on how it was done. Maybe I'll get a chance to look at it, though; it sounds like a good story. But if you described specific body parts and their "biological reactions", then probably I'd have the same concerns with your story as I'm expressing in general. If not, then probably not. > how about having an Archive warning for steamy, the same way >there's a warning for violence? In the past, we've never felt the need to do this, mainly because almost all PG-13 fics were rated that way because of the sexual content. Violence has always been quite rare in L&C fanfic, and I only felt the need to create a violence warning pretty recently, as it became necessary. But given that we may now have different "levels" of PG-13, a sex warning might be necessary as well. Personally, I'd prefer authors to do this (on their own or by GE recommendation) in their author's notes. But if that is not happening, maybe we need to consider this. My fear, however, in establishing another "rating" is that we will slowly move into allowing R rated stories onto the Archive, which is something we specifically do not want to do. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:50:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Genevieve Subject: L&C Tapes available -- First come, first served MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PLEASE REPLY OFF-LIST ---------------------------- A few weeks ago, my husband and I were going through our tape collection. Now my husband understands (sort of) why I have to have each Lois and Clark episode in SP, along with blooper reels and dailies, and all the other Superman-related tapes I have, but he did raise his eyebrows at the fact that I had *two copies* of a number of L&C episodes and sometimes three! "It's in case the VCR eats one of them," I told him, and he shook his head slightly, and didn't say a word. But my tape collection contines to grow. Anyone else watching Queen of Swords? (I'm a sucker for any secret-identity show.) And I've started buying Highlander tapes from E-bay, so my EP Highlander collection is being replaced by SP tapes, and well -- there is just no room for the extra L&C tapes. Then yesterday someone posted that they were not too familiar with the first season, and I thought -- Horrors! That's the season with Lex. (The real Lex, I mean, not that soulless creature who came back from the dead) So I've decided the time has come to offer these up. And I'd really like to give them to someone on this list, someone who might use them to write some great fanfic. Now, these are my extra tapes, and I haven't watched them in years, so I'm not going to guarantee the quality. But the price is right -- you can have them for the cost of the postage. These tapes can either be: 1) PAL--NTSC, SP copies of the PAL tapes sold in Britain. No commercials, but the color is a bit darker. Still very watchable, but I ususally adjusted my television brightness when I watched them. 2) JPN-- From Japan. SP copies of NTSC, SP originals. No commercials. Episodes in Japan aired in English, with no subtitles. although I will admit that it's a bit surprising to see "Dean Cain" in Japanese characters in the opening credits. 3) TNT--SP origninals from TNT. These have advertisements, I'm afraid. So here's what's available: ======================== SEASON ONE PAL - Pilot (long ver.), #3 (Strange Visitor), #2 (NeverEnding Battle) TNT - #2 (Neverending Battle), #3 (Strange Visitor) PAL - #4 (I'm looking through you), #5 (Requiem for a Superhero) TNT - #4 (I'm looking through you), #5 (Requiem for a Superhero) PAL - #6 (I've got a crush on you), #7 (Smart Kids) PAL - #8 (Green Green Glow of Home), #9 (Man of Steel Bars) TNT - #8 (Green Green Glow of Home), #9 (Man of Steel Bars) JPN - #10 (Pherome, my Lovely), #13 (Witness) PAL - #11 (Honeymoon in Metropolis, #12 (All Shook Up) JPN - #14 (Illusions of Grandeur), #15 (Ides of Metropolis) JPN - #16 (The Foundling), #17 (The Rival) JPN - #18 (Vatman), #19 (Fly Hard) JPN - #20 (Barbarians at the Planet), #21 (House of Luthor) SEASON TWO: JPN - #24 (The Source), #25 (The Prankster) JPN - #26 (Church of Metropolis), #27 (Operation Blackout) JPN - #28 (That Old Gang of Mine), #29 (Bolt from the Blue) JPN - #30 (Season's Greedings), #31 (Metallo) JPN - #32 (Chi of Steel), #33 (Eyes Have It) JPN - #34 (Phoenix), #35 (Top Copy) JPN - #36 (Return of the Prankster), #37 (Lucky Leon) JPN - #38 (Resurrection), #39 (Tempus Fugitive) EXTRAS: Lois and Clark Gag Reels, Season two and three Music videos and the Good Morning America Interview ======== You know, I'm smiling just typing the episode titles, and remembering the episodes. If no one wants these I'll just toss them, but I thought I'd offer them here first. PLEASE REPLY OFF-LIST. My e-mail address is nightsky@erols.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genevieve The World Wide Web has made it possible for anyone to find in five hours what a competent librarian can find in five minutes. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 01:15:01 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Bethy Em Subject: Re: NEW: Not Lonely (1/1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I just wanted to say thanks to Melisma, Marnie, Amparo and Rose for their nice comments on "Not Lonely." Melisma, I'm glad your speechlessness didn't prevent you from posting fdk! :-) Amparo, it seems that needing tissues was a common reaction -- half the people on Zoom's boards made mention of that! :-) I'm glad you liked it, Rose, but...shhh! Rose wrote: /me feels very sneaky for having let the cat out of the bag about Bethy's next story... Maybe the other people on the list will help encourage (beg) Bethy to write her next story faster.... They're not supposed to know about that! Well, actually, I think they figured it out when I asked a ton of questions on NASA and gravity then posted a story that had nothing to do with either! ;-) Don't worry all, that one is coming along. I'm not sure when it will be ready for posting, but I assure that it will be coming soon to a list near you! :-) Thanks again, Bethy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:27:37 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Melisma Subject: Re: NEW: Not Lonely (1/1) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:15 AM 25/02/2001 -0000, you wrote: >I just wanted to say thanks to Melisma, Marnie, Amparo and Rose for their >nice comments on "Not Lonely." > >Melisma, I'm glad your speechlessness didn't prevent you from posting fdk! >:-) :D Well, what you saw, was my trying to be semi-articulate while speechless. Sometimes it works. Other times, well... :) Melisma (having regained her powers of speech, at least for a while, here under her Rock) Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:21:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 2/? LOL, Carol, this is fun ... what a great ending line, too. Can't wait to see what you have in store. Lois's second list was hysterical ... I especially liked how she kept coming back to "he's a dweeb", etc. LOL! Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:45:01 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 2/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:21:47 -0500 Kathy Brown writes: > LOL, Carol, this is fun ... what a great ending line, too. Can't > wait to see > what you have in store. Me either! I wish I knew! > > Lois's second list was hysterical ... I especially liked how she > kept coming > back to "he's a dweeb", etc. LOL! Well, he is! I am glad you are enjoying it! CM > > Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 12:50:29 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Helene wrote: > >This is where I disagree. I'm sorry, but 'Lois pressed herself against Clark > >and he responded passionately' looks too physical to me. No emotions, and therefore no real need for the story. > Kathy responded: > I think we keep talking in circles, comparing apples to oranges. I'm not > talking about emotional reactions -- I'm talking about physical ones. I > think a good author can convey what is going on in a character's head without getting overly specific about what body part is being touched and in what way. > I'm not sure that we are, Kathy. In fact, I'm not sure on just about anything any more. I wasn't that confident on where the dividing line was to begin with, but the more I read on this thread the most confused I've become until I have no idea at all any longer. I agree with Helene - with this example there seems to be little point in including it in a story. It adds nothing to it. I'm also very confused about the 'blow by blow sexual act' example in your earlier post as I've never read any gfic that included such a moment and couldn't find anyone else I asked who had either. I would have wanted to track such a fic down, just to enable me to try to get a handle on what specificially had been included. And what hadn't. I understand your reluctance re. ratings. However I do think that if you feel there's a specific problem now, some guidance for authors and GEs would be welcome. I don't seem to be the only one who is now thoroughly confused as to what is permitted and what isn't. A suggestion was made to me last night that perhaps the solution is to have a FAQ for conversions, complete with examples of what would be permitted and what would not, in much the same way that the grammar FAQ includes DO/DO NOT examples. So that authors have something to work from. Such a FAQ would of course not be available on site, but only on request to authors or even just sent out to the GEs, so that they can guide authors when a conversion comes their way. I'm making no suggestions here, you understand, as to who would compile said FAQ ;) but simply advancing it as a possible solution. What do other authors/GEs think? Would this help clarify the boundaries for them? LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) Kathy wrote: >>>But in the case of sexual activity and graphic descriptions, I think that a lot of authors have been taking the lazy way out.<<< I've been thinking about this a lot since yesterday, and - while trying not to take the appellation 'lazy' in any way personally, being an author who has converted nfics - I really don't think that this is true. Honestly. A lazy author *would* just snip an entire scene, without checking to be sure that it doesn't harm the plot or character development in any way. What I, and other writers who have converted, have done is to go through our scenes with a fine tooth-comb. We don't just snip the odd word, or replace them with synonyms which aren't quite explicit. We try to keep the emotion, the dialogue, the character development, the essence of the scene, without going over the line. That takes a lot of time. And I know that many of us are extremely careful about it, getting second, third and even fourth opinions before posting. So if mistakes are made in this kind of process, it's *not* through laziness! However, I do think it's through, quite simply, not knowing where the line is drawn. Ask six different people, you'll get six different opinions. Ask the same person on six different occasions, and you might get six different opinions! So I definitely agree with the idea of an FAQ. Some of us work *extremely* hard to convert our stories without making PG readers wonder if they're missing an important element of plot or character development. If we get it wrong sometimes, we need to be told how to get it right. Wendy --------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:33:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok this has been fermenting in my mailbox for a while, the idea intrigued me but I just never had an inking of what I should do. Then today the muse struck, Wind roared past his ears as he plummeted at breakneck speed toward the pavement. Lex knew there was no do-gooding clown in spandex to save him because he had locked him into a radioactive cage. Superduper had escaped but Lex doubted that he had recovered, and that was fine with him. Lex scanned the crowd on the sidewalk as they neared and saw the final betrayal. Lois was in that wimp, Clark Kent's arms. Who did he think that he was? Who did she think that she was? She was his, her momentary lapse at the altar did nothing to alter that! The pavement was getting much closer now and Lex realized that whatever he thought was important was going to pretty much academic, in mere seconds he was going to be nothing more than a smear on the sidewalk and life would go on. How depressing... /thud/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:41:06 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cute! I got a nice chuckle out of this one. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:54:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Ann, I appreciate the fdk... i just was playing with ideas and I waffled between Jimmy and Luthor and Perry, someone without flight to plummet :) Did it work? Should I try the other two that I thought of? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann E. McBride" To: Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? > Cute! I got a nice chuckle out of this one. > > Ann > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:24:34 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL, Marnie. You really need to submit this as an Episode Tank Ending, I think. ;) Loved that 'thud'. LabRat :) > Ok this has been fermenting in my mailbox for a while, the idea intrigued me > but I just never had an inking of what I should do. Then today the muse > struck, > > Wind roared past his ears as he plummeted at breakneck speed toward the > pavement. Lex knew there was no do-gooding clown in spandex to save him > because he had locked him into a radioactive cage. Superduper had escaped > but Lex doubted that he had recovered, and that was fine with him. > > Lex scanned the crowd on the sidewalk as they neared and saw the final > betrayal. Lois was in that wimp, Clark Kent's arms. Who did he think that he > was? Who did she think that she was? She was his, her momentary lapse at the > altar did nothing to alter that! > > The pavement was getting much closer now and Lex realized that whatever he > thought was important was going to pretty much academic, in mere seconds he > was going to be nothing more than a smear on the sidewalk and life would go > on. How depressing... > > /thud/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 08:56:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: lcfic Subject: Message Board Index Update through February 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi FoLCs! Lots of new vignettes and stories, some new story parts, and a couple of completed stories all this week on Zoom's message board! Links at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/lnc.html New stories this week: FIRST FLIGHT: CAROL MONCADO LOIS' STORY COMPLETE VIGNETTE CAROL MONCADO THE MARRIAGE PACT COMPLETE VIGNETTE ERIN KLINGLER NEW MUSICAL THREAD (2) COLLECTION OF MUSICAL MOMENTS VARIOUS NOT LONELY COMPLETE VIGNETTE BETHY PROMISES COMPLETE VIGNETTE RANDI WARWICK THE WEAK POINT: CHIARA PRATO New part(s) posted: CATSPAW(REPOST): STARKITTY (AKA TARA SMITH) PURITY: YVONNE CONNELL TEMPTATION OR OPPORTUNITY: BRENDA Completed stories this week: FIRST NIGHT: CAROL MONCADO THE LONG WAY HOME: CHRISH New TOC's none Added to the Archive this week: Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt by Irene Dutchak Lifeflight - An Elseworld Story - Part III (51B thru 85) by Raconteur Till There Was You by Chris H. Enjoy! Dawn & the Index Crew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:11:58 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Nfic Archive Updated - 02/25/01 Comments: To: lcnfanfic@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Gang, The Nfic website has been updated today! First off we are adding two new authors to the site, one on the PG and on the Nfic side. Ann McBride brings us Growing Pains and A Triangle Built For Two. (PG) and ML Thompson brings us her first Nfic, It's a Bet. We also have a new showcase posted, so head on over to check it out! Anne ;) Visit the Lois & Clark Nfic Archive www.annesplace.net "If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck ... chances are pretty good it is a duck." - Lois Lane; Strange Visitor From Another Planet "...Grab a bottle, hunker down and pray for daylight!" - Karen Walker; Guess Who's Not Coming to Dinner ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:59:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Should They or Shouldn't They? (Was Pushing the Envelope...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I'm back from my weekend :) Fascinating discussion you guys have been having ... I've only two small things to contribute :) I speculated: > Well, I could quibble here Yes, they were tempted to go for it, and > showed no noticeable hesitation, but after being interrupted, they > didn't get back to business later -- once the Nazis were taken care of > in SMn, L&C went back to the idea of waiting. I'm not going to say this > was evidence of moral qualms -- they had other issues, too, which could > have accounted for it -- but I don't see it as concrete proof against > them, either. and Helene answered: > What bothers me about this is that neither of them seemed particularly > religious, so I don't see why it would be a 'moral' issue for them to wait > till their wedding night (and especially on Lois's part, since she wasn't a > virgin - actually, my own assumption is that she probably slept with Claude > early in their relationship, when she didn't know him enough, so that takes > the possibility of religious reasons out, at least for her... but it could > be one of the reasons why she wanted to wait, with Clark). So I thought I should clarify... I do not think that "morals" were the main factor here -- you're right, we're given no reason to think that either of them were seriously religious in any way, and their stated reasons for waiting never included religion or morality. I just wondered whether that might have been a minor contributing factor, given Clark's conservative background. Yes, he's traveled and I don't think he'd consider himself bound by the dictates of any particular church, but the things we're taught in childhood have a way of sticking with us in sneaky ways :) Personally, I think if Lois had been less skittish and encouraged him, he'd have been happy to go ahead ... but she had her own insecurities and when the heat of the moment passed, she was a little reluctant as well. In another message, Kate responded to something I'd said: > > it wasn't Superman The Public Figure having sex, it was Clark > > Kent, private citizen. As long as that secret is secret, it's no one's > > business. > > Except to the TV viewing audience ;), which is the whole point to me....I > watched this show with my 3 children and was pleased with the example > Superman and Clark set in being very patient. Ah, but that's a completely separate argument, Kate :) I was arguing "inside the box", pretending that L&C/SM were all real people in the real world, making their own decisions for their own reasons. This wasn't really true, of course, because they were characters being written by committee ... but that's a very different level of discussion. As it happens, I was pleased to see them wait, as well (surprised, but pleased). I suspect TPTB were a little cautious about upsetting anyone (given that Superman is a cultural icon & the show had a large percentage of families in the audience) and decided they'd offend the least people by waiting As we've all concluded, there was evidence in their character histories to justify it either way. -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:30:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Genevieve Subject: L&C Tapes available CLARIFICATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Genevieve wrote: Having re-read my original post, and answered questions from a number of you, I realize I wasn't very clear (to put it mildly!) when I described the tapes. ALL of these tapes are in English. ALL of these tapes are NTSC. They will play on machines in the U.S. and Canada; they will not play on machines in the U.K. or Australia. The tapes that I foolishly labelled "PAL" in the original post are not PAL, they are NTSC tapes made by converting the PAL tapes sold in the U.K. Because of the conversion process, the color is a bit off, but the tapes are still quite watchable. There are no commercials in these tapes. They are now labelled "UK" in the list below. Again, these are NTSC tapes that WILL play in US/Canadian machines. L&C was broadcast in English in Japan. No Japanese, no subtitles. The opening credits has the actors' names in Japanese. Other than that, they're just like they were taped off-air in the U.S. except that there are no commercials. (One of these tapes has the black and white photo-shoot as a bonus, but I don't remember which one.) Still available are: ======================== SEASON ONE TNT - #2 (Neverending Battle), #3 (Strange Visitor) UK - #4 (I'm looking through you), #5 (Requiem for a Superhero) TNT - #4 (I'm looking through you), #5 (Requiem for a Superhero) UK - #6 (I've got a crush on you), #7 (Smart Kids) UK - #8 (Green Green Glow of Home), #9 (Man of Steel Bars) TNT - #8 (Green Green Glow of Home), #9 (Man of Steel Bars) UK - #11 (Honeymoon in Metropolis, #12 (All Shook Up) JPN - #14 (Illusions of Grandeur), #15 (Ides of Metropolis) JPN - #16 (The Foundling), #17 (The Rival) SEASON TWO: JPN - #24 (The Source), #25 (The Prankster) JPN - #26 (Church of Metropolis), #27 (Operation Blackout) JPN - #30 (Season's Greedings), #31 (Metallo) JPN - #32 (Chi of Steel), #33 (Eyes Have It) JPN - #36 (Return of the Prankster), #37 (Lucky Leon) JPN - #38 (Resurrection), #39 (Tempus Fugitive) Again, please reply off-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genevieve The World Wide Web has made it possible for anyone to find in five hours what a competent librarian can find in five minutes. :-) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:38:24 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Why they Waited - WAS Re: Pushing the Envelope? Gerry, I've just finished reading ML's story, and you're right: it gets right to the core of that question, and in a delightful, funny and sensual manner. I loved it, and will shortly be writing to tell MaryLynn so. For those who read nfic, get on over to Annesplace *now* and read this terrific story! :) Wendy ---------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:38:45 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish to present a new rating system for fanfic ... ;) Squeaky Clean - Even dear old Walt (Disney) would be proud ... Slightly Soiled - Some innuendo, but no nookie. Hot Tamle - Hinting at Nookie, but leaving it to the imagination as we fade to black at the bedroom door. Come to Mama - Not for the weak at heart, only posted at the Nfic Archive and just about anything goes. ;) Will be marked accordingly: pre or post (marriage) I'm actually just poking a little fun at the topic that's been hot for the last week or so. Please do not take this as sarcastic or even flaming someone's personal beliefs. Please know that offending anyone is not intentional. I've been reading most of the emails coming through and while it's fun to see the list active, I honestly think that this is a subject that not everyone is going to agree on. And that we should agree to disagree. Since this has begun I've seen some really good arguments and I've seen some 'Wow, I can't believe that someone posted that.' I've also begun to sense that there might have been some hurt feelings along the way. As for how fanfic is written, I think most do follow the Lois & Clark cannon when it comes to this type of thing. I remember that there were people who, up until VD aired, believed that Lois and Clark were more intimate than we saw them. Even when during the curtain scene during the New Krypton arc (which aired after VD), many (including myself) thought since Lois and Clark knew 'in their hearts' that they were already man and wife, why not experience physically what they already knew emotionally. (I will point out, though, that KathyB does an exceptional job in Winners explaining why they still waited.) As far as personal beliefs and how they are written in to someone's fanfic, then that's fine too. But please keep in mind that they are personal ... I've felt through reading some of these posts that people are trying to lecture on what is right or wrong based on their own beliefs, whether they are intending to or not. Should I feel bad that I like reading Nfic? I don't think so. Whether they are written as a married couple or not, 99% of the nfic I have read deals with a Lois and Clark that are so emotionally involved with each other that no matter what happens, there will never be another love for either of them. That's a beautiful thing and it's something that I wouldn't want to see diminish. One last thing I will say is that, of all the fanfic in all the fandoms I have read, this is the only one that handles adult material in such a tasteful manner. Even in the few fics that seem to be kinky, the writer does an excellent job in presenting it. And it's yet one more reason why I like being a part of this fandom ... Anne ;) Visit the Lois & Clark Nfic Archive www.annesplace.net "If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck ... chances are pretty good it is a duck." - Lois Lane; Strange Visitor From Another Planet "...Grab a bottle, hunker down and pray for daylight!" - Karen Walker; Guess Who's Not Coming to Dinner ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:10:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Marilyn L. Puett" Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) I just read M.L. Thompson's first nfic, It's a Bet, which was posted on annesplace.net today. It's a wonderfully steamy story. But I just had to laugh when I read her postscript: "BTW, does anyone other than me find it ironic that I've written an nfic where no one actually gets laid? And does anyone other than me find it ironic that in order to write a story where no one actually gets laid, I had to write it as an nfic?" I wonder if she's been following the thread on this board and on Zoom's mb's as well? Marilyn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:27:37 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wanda McCants Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a great twist, I love that you used Lex instead of Superman or Lois as the main character. Thanks for sharing. Wanda "What happens to a dream deferred? / Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun?" ......Langston Hughes Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:49:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marilyn Puett Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Okay, okay...I'll admit it! I'm a voyeur and a hormone-ravaged female! Now that that's settled... ;-) I'm the one on IRC who mentioned "Rubber Ducky" as the standard being given for gfic. I can't remember who told me to use that. It was about this time last year; I had written my first story "Be My Smallville Valentine" which was nfic. I wanted to sanitize it and make it available to the Archive. So on IRC I asked for some general help and was directed to "Rubber Ducky." It's not surprising then that my initial submission was rejected by my wonderful GE, Erin Klingler. She did a great job of helping me get it to a standard appropriate for the Archive. With that experience in hand, the next conversion (Who Wants to Love a Millionaire) was simple. Then came the third story (A Million Reasons to Love You). When I submitted what I thought was a PG-13 version to Kathy, I got back a note from her that there was no way the story could be made PG-13 and still maintain the plot. And I agree completely. In my naivete, I just assumed that a nip here and a tuck there would achieve the desired result. Since then I've written some stories that were gfic (with no nfic version) because I felt there was no reason to "spice them up" so to speak. And there's "I'm in the Nude for Love" which is nfic because of the situation, not the sex (cause there ain't any). I recently posted a little romp (which I still have to finish, I know) to the Nfic folder on Zoom's board. Now that I've had time to sit back and look at it objectively, I'm seriously thinking that the completed version of the story will probably be a PG-13 version. The scene in the hayloft is integral to the plot, but the graphic description is not. And all this discussion has made me sit back and give serious thought to WHY I write the sex scenes. Is it because I think people expect them? Is it because they are necessary to the story? Is it pure ego because I think I'll have a better chance at a Kerth award on the Nfic side than on the Gfic side? (I'm being real honest here, folks.) And now I don't really know where this post is going. I think I'm beginning to babble so I'll shut up. But I did want to clear up the whole "Rubber Ducky" issue. /me raises her hand! Marilyn AKA Supermom >From: Kathy Brown >Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" > >To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU >Subject: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) >Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:23:40 -0500 > >Since the "Pushing the Envelope" topic veered off into other areas (thanks >to >those who changed the subject line accordingly -- very helpful and >appreciated!), I wanted to get back to Hazel's original post, or at least >my >reaction to it. Namely, why are the PG-13 stories in the Archive getting >more and more graphic? > >Some of you will find this ironic because I am an nfic writer myself -- but >I >agree with Hazel, and I would love to see nfic conversions *stop* pushing >the >envelope when it comes to their descriptions. > >As the EIC of the Archive, I have seen the same trend, and to be honest, it >often annoys me. It makes my job as EIC a lot harder -- we have so many >converted nfics these days (unlike Hazel, I think that *is* a primary >cause) >that my GEs always have to be extra careful about things. Which means I'm >forever getting emails from my GEs asking "are these lines OK?" and more >often than not, my answer is no! > >I agree with the nfic authors who have said that the reason they write nfic >in the first place is to be able to address more adult topics, and to not >have to worry about "is this OK to say?", either in sexual descriptions or >banter/dialog. This is why I write it, too. It's also just plain fun for >those of us who enjoy reading/writing it. :) > >But what I don't understand is why it's so hard for nfic authors to convert >their stories down to PG-13. Why spend all this time deleting a word here >and there, cutting as little as possible, trying to see how far you can >push >the envelope, when the scene doesn't have to be there? Why not just remove >the whole section? I'm not talking about obvious "snips" -- I find them >insulting to the reader. But what's wrong with doing a little extra work >to >smooth out the scene into a 'fade to black'? I just plain disagree with >the >statement that graphic sexual descriptions are essential to the plot of a >PG >story -- having the characters making love might very well be, but the >specific descriptions, more often than not, are not. > >Now granted, some nfic scenes *are* necessary to the plot; I have never >edited my "Winners" story down to PG, despite many requests, for just that >reason -- the story is *about* sex, and how a committed couple decides when >to take that step. Sex scenes aside, there is a lot of discussion between >the characters about their past experiences, and how it led them to make >the >choices they have. I don't feel these can be removed or edited without >losing something from the plot, so I choose not to remove them. What's >more, >I recognize the writer's desire to get all of our words out there for as >many >people to read as possible. We get very attached to our scenes, and are >often loathe to delete them. > >But IMO, a good author is one who knows when a scene is extraneous. That >doesn't mean that we all don't have personal reasons for certain scenes >(many >people have found my Karyn character and her scenes with Lois in "Winners" >extraneous, but I had my reasons for keeping them in). But in the case of >sexual activity and graphic descriptions, I think that a lot of authors >have >been taking the lazy way out. > >My opinion -- If an nfic story is good enough to convert to gfic, it should >be able to stand on its own without the graphic sex. If you can't take out >the sex and be left with a decent story, I say the story has no business >being converted to gfic in the first place. And if a story is worth >editing >down to PG-13 (which most are), then the author shouldn't be resistant to >removing the detailed sexual descriptions. > >Understand that I'm not talking about removing all kissing or make-out >scenes, or all romantic/sexual banter. I would think most of you would >know >my own PG-13 work well enough to know I don't mean that! But I think in >most >cases, scenes can fade out before we get into specifics. Tweaking a >graphic >sex scene so that it still contains all the action (but removes a few off- >limit words) may satisify the letter of the law, but I believe it violates >the spirit. > >Kathy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:33:00 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/25/2001 4:50:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << And all this discussion has made me sit back and give serious thought to WHY I write the sex scenes. Is it because I think people expect them? Is it because they are necessary to the story? Is it pure ego because I think I'll have a better chance at a Kerth award on the Nfic side than on the Gfic side? (I'm being real honest here, folks.) >> Interesting questions, Marilyn. In general, I don't care which version I read as long as I get to read a really good story. I want a good story that has a plot--in other words moves from point A to point B. What I am realizing is that I'm missing out on a lot of stories that are being raved about because they have not or will never be converted to gfic and end up at the archive. And few nfic authors are using Joyce's distribution system any longer. (Hey, can I help it if I prefer that the stories come to me rather than to have to go looking for them?) As for James realizing that some nfic stories are post (real) wedding and Pam mentioning that many fans assumed that L & C had "crossed the intimacy threshold" before marriage--until blatently stated otherwise on the show, do please remember that many nfics were written during that time period and were based on that assumption. --Laurie (who wants more good -- and long -- stories to read) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:37:55 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I wish to present a new rating system for fanfic ... ;) > > Squeaky Clean - Even dear old Walt (Disney) would be proud ... > Slightly Soiled - Some innuendo, but no nookie. > Hot Tamle - Hinting at Nookie, but leaving it to the imagination as we fade > to black at the bedroom door. > Come to Mama - Not for the weak at heart, only posted at the Nfic Archive and > just about anything goes. ;) Will be marked accordingly: pre or post > (marriage) I lol'ed aloud when I first read this and I don't know if its irreverent or not but I thought that this might be a better way of rating the fics on the archive and on Anne's site, more clear cut and to the point no matter how silly it sounds at first glance. Of course "Come to Momma" is restricted already but for the main archive...there would be no confusion for the international fans. I have seen in the discussion that bruised toes, that there are different ranking and moral systems and what is allowed and not allowed for the younger yrs to see and or read. And I also have to say that for the most part I agree with Anne on her other points, I think that we are a diverse group with many ways of looking at life and that there are inevitable clashes that will happen in such a group. Agree to disagree, let bygones be bygones and hope to whatever we hold dear that taste continues to hold out over crass anything. Marnie Rowe ~Pobody's Nerfect ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:43:21 -0000 Reply-To: Yvonne Connell Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, time to come clean - am I the only person on this list who a) didn't assume they were sleeping together before we were told otherwise, b) didn't actually assume anything, because I never gave it a second's thought, and c) if asked, would have said they weren't sleeping together, because I wasn't given any evidence that they were, and because the world they inhabited, and which I happily inhabited with them while I was watching the show, was American Family Entertainment's version of real life? Yvonne (yvonne@yconnell.fsnet.co.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:50:36 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Adam Labotka Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wouldn't have been really surprised either wya, but I never assumed they were sleeping together. I'm of the wait category myself, and while I don't think it's wrong not to wait, that might have influenced the way I looked at it. I really don't like when casual sex is portrayed in things, but as long as there is love and a committed relationship behind it, I have no problem with people being intimate, married or not. People are free to feel whatever way they want on the subject IMHO. Let's all respect others feelings on this (and no this isn't directed at anyone but maybe if you feel it is directed at you you need to examine the way you handle presenting your case.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yvonne Connell" To: Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) > Okay, time to come clean - am I the only person on this list who > > a) didn't assume they were sleeping together before we were told otherwise, > b) didn't actually assume anything, because I never gave it a second's > thought, and > c) if asked, would have said they weren't sleeping together, because I > wasn't given any evidence that they were, and because the world they > inhabited, and which I happily inhabited with them while I was watching the > show, was American Family Entertainment's version of real life? > > Yvonne > (yvonne@yconnell.fsnet.co.uk) > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:54:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Marilyn L. Puett" Subject: A Boo Boo I was made aware today -- in a nice manner ;) -- that I inadvertently posted a spoiler on the listserv today. It's in reply to Anne Ciotola's message "A Comic Relief." I apologize to anyone who had the story ruined for them. I just didn't think. It's as simple as that. And this should serve as a reminder to me in the future that I should be careful when I post a comment and put a spoiler space in the message. Marilyn AKA Supermom ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:33:42 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower 3/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is part 3 in the Superman's Shower story. Hope you like it. *BG* CM ***** >From Part 2 She walked up the steps to Clark's apartment. Lois took a deep breath and knocked on the door. She heard Clark call from the inside and she waited nervously. He opened the door, shirtless. She glanced down quickly. He was wearing blue jeans. ***** Part 3 Clark woke with a start, sitting straight up in his bed. The earthquake had taken a lot out of him, but he woke quickly when there was a noise in his apartment. He looked towards the sound and saw someone leaving his apartment. Using his vision, he realized it was Lois. He flopped back. How long had she been there? He had been so tired from the earthquake and the long day at the Planet, that he hadn't even looked to make sure there was no one in his apartment. He looked at the couch and noticed some indentations on the cushions and the pillows. She must have been lying on the couch when he came home. The question now was how much had she seen? He thought about what he had done since he got home. He flew in as Superman, undressed, took a shower, spun to dress, and went to bed. He looked through the door and saw Lois sitting on the steps. He could see her profile and saw a kind of stunned disbelief look. She was suspicious. What would Lois do if she was suspicious? Clark knew Lois better than anyone, even Lois. He thought about it. Lois was a list person; a pro/con list person. She would go somewhere and make some lists. She'd compare the Clark as Superman and the Clark isn't Superman lists and then decide which one was more likely to be the case. Lois wasn't dumb, Clark knew that. The question was, could she come up with enough plausible items on the list to convince her that Clark really was Superman. She wouldn't want to believe it, she'd want proof. She'd do some kind of experiment. Find some way to prove or disprove the Clark as Superman theory. He tried to put himself in Lois' place. The most obvious thing to do would be to show up early and see what he was wearing. He had answered the door for her in his boxers on several occasions, so it wouldn't be unusual for him to, but it wouldn't be unusual for him not to either. He set a pair of jeans on the end of his bed and resolved to sleep more lightly and to be dressed when she knocked. He smiled. He'd have jeans on anyway. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:52:41 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Randi .." Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Marnie Rowe >/thud/ LOL! How cheery! :) No, seriously, very funny, Marnie. I enjoyed it a lot. I especially liked the "Who did he/she think she was". .:) Randi ================================== "I'm not a praying man. I don't even know if you're up there. But if you are and you can hear me, Save me Superman!" -Homer Simpson =================================== _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:34:20 -0700 Reply-To: erink@ida.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Erin Klingler Subject: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! Comments: To: LNC list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone :) First, thank you again to everyone who sent in your nominations for your favorite fanfics of 2000. :) We had a really great turnout for nominations, and I appreciate everyone's participation! Next, let me send out a big "congratulations!" to all of you fanfic writers who made the shortlists this year. There were many, many tight races--yes, even in the nominations process!--and I just can't imagine anyone having to pick only one story in each of the categories come voting time. I whimpered and thought, "There's no way I could possibly pick only one of these!" So all of you do indeed have my condolences come voting time. But that just goes to show you the level of writing talent we have out there in FoLCdom. We should be proud. :) Before I post the list of finalists, however, I need to add a bit of good news! The Kerth committee has decided--yes, at nearly the last moment :)--to add one more category to the list! It's going to be 'Best Holiday Story.' We just had so many wonderful holiday stories nominated, and such tight races in so many of the categories, that we just decided (thanks, Pam! Wonderful idea!) to create a 'Holiday' category and move those top running holiday stories into one of its own, opening the door for some non-holiday stories in those other categories. :) We hope you all like the additon. Now remember, voting starts THIS COMING SATURDAY, March 3rd and lasts until Sunday, March 18th. That's not a lot of time, so get reading! And for your convenience, Genevieve has graciously offered (Thanks Genevieve! :)) to run her "one stop reading" Kerths webpage yet another year, so you can go there to read all of the nominated stories in preparation for voting! The URL for the 2001 stories is: http://users.erols.com/nightsky/Kerths/kerth01.html As for voting: We are planning on using the automated ballot again this year thanks to Lauren at the Archive, and that ballot URL will be posted on my Kerths voting page www.ida.net/users/davek/kerth_voting.htm later this week. Check back for that. So without further ado, here are our nominees for 2001! Congratulations to one and all. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BEST COMEDY: 48 Hours Without a Superman--Kathryn Ann Kent AOL: A Revelation Story of the Alternate Kind--Rose Pagimon--Tara Smith Saving Geckoboy--Debby Stark Seeking Asylum--Shayne Terry The Ultimate Drug--Hazel BEST VIGNETTE/SHORT STORY: Atom Bomb Lane--Jessi Mounts Between Floors 7 and 8--Jessi Mounts Clark.doc--SuperMom Tie Story--Chris Carr Yesterday's News--Tracey BEST WAFFY STORY: Moments--Shayne Terry My Mother Made It For Me--Chris Mulder Naked Truth--Kaethel The One That Got Away--Kathy Brown That Shocking First Kiss--Tracey To My Love--Jessi Mounts BEST HOLIDAY STORY: Be My Smallville Valentine--SuperMom Home for Christmas--Wendy Richards My Little Maccabee: A Lois and Clark Hanukkah Story--Carolyn Schnall The Spirt of...--Phil Atcliffe Stocking Stuffer--Tank Wilson Valentine Expectations--Gerry Anklewicz BEST DRAMATIC STORY: Connections: An Alternate Story--Carol Malo The Darkest Hour (Before the Dawn)--Erin Klingler Dear Lois--Shayne Terry Fear of Discovery III: Coming Home--Yvonne Connell Red Sky--Jenni Debbage BEST TEARJERKER: Ad Astra Per Aspera--Becky Bain Are You Lonesome Tonight...?--LabRat For the Greater Good--Wendy Richards A Love Well Worth the Wait--Tracey When Friends Become Lovers--Kathy Brown & Demi BEST REVELATION STORY: Shattered Illusions--Wendy Richards The Spying Game--Irene Dutchak Tales Out of Church--Irene Dutchak A Triangle Built for Two--Ann McBride Trust Me, I'm a Reporter--Yvonne Connell When Friends Become Lovers--Kathy Brown & Demi BEST EPISODE ADAPTATION: Are You Lonesome Tonight...?--LabRat Forget It...Not!--SuperMom Growing Pains--Ann McBride Love, Loyalty and Luthor: Learning Curves II--Chris Carr Strange Visitor Revisited--Irene Dutchak and Wendy Richards That Lois Lane of Mine--Rose BEST LOST EPISODE: Blind Man's Bluff--Nan Smith Dear Lois--Shayne Terry For the Greater Good--Wendy Richards A Lie of the Mind--Rose A Triangle Built for Two--Ann McBride BEST ALTERNATE UNIVERSE STORY: Connections: An Alternate Story--Carol Malo Fear of Discovery III: Coming Home--Yvonne Connell In Any Universe--Pam Jernigan Life in a Different World, part III--Mobile Richard Only You: Fantasy--Margaret Brignell The Other Woman, part 1&2--ML Thompson BEST ELSEWORLDS STORY: In the Beginning--Sheila Harper The Fugitive, part 1&2--Mobile Richard Lost and Found--Jeff Brogden Strangers--Missy Gallant Tryst--Pam Jernigan Universal Union, Book 2--Jenni Debbage MOST INNOVATIVE IDEA: A Certain Point of View--Hazel Hearts and Diamonds--Shayne Terry The 'Home' series: Home/Beginnings/Memories--Nan Smith Out of Time--ML Thompson Speeding Bullets--Zoomway Tryst--Pam Jernigan BEST VILLAIN STORY: The Darkest Hour (Before the Dawn)--Erin Klingler A Future Restored--Tank Wilson In the Beginning--Sheila Harper Love, Loyalty and Luthor: Learning Curves II--Chris Carr When Lightning Strikes Twice--Wendy Richards BEST EARLY YEARS/SUPER FUTURES: The Circle Game--Jude Dawn of Discovery/How I Spent My Summer Vacation--Cindy Leuch The Martha Chronicles 2&3: The Open Road; Metanoia--Christy Kubit Red Sky--Jenni Debbage So Strong a Foundation--Wendy Richards Solar Eclipse/Gale Force Winds--Irene Dutchak BEST SERIES: Dawn of Discovery/How I Spent My Summer Vacation/Professional Loyalities--Cindy Leuch A Future Revised/A Future Restored--Tank Wilson The 'Home' series: Home/Beginnings/Memories--Nan Smith The Martha Chronicles 2&3: The Open Road; Metanoia--Christy Kubit A Night in the Office/Strange Relationships/Best Laid Plans--Nan Smith Solar Eclipse/Gale Force Winds--Irene Dutchak BEST NEW AUTHOR: Kaethel Tracey Missy Gallant Cindy Leuch Ann McBride Shayne Terry BEST OVERALL STORY: Are You Lonesome Tonight...?--LabRat The Darkest Hour (Before the Dawn)--Erin Klingler For the Greater Good--Wendy Richards In the Beginning--Sheila Harper Tryst--Pam Jernigan When Friends Become Lovers--Kathy Brown & Demi >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin __________________ erink@ida.net Visit my LNC/Kerth Website: www.ida.net/users/davek ***** "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen." __________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:57:30 +0000 Reply-To: ampaes@etsii.upv.es Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Amparo Palacios Escrig Organization: Universidad Politecnica Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? I like it Marnie and I was laughing after the end. "How depressing..." lol Amparo ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:22:52 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed /me staggers around incoherently and falls flat on my face Wow. Um, no, I meant... wow. Actually, what I wanted to say was -- wow. Okay, I give up, I can't think of anything else. :) Thanks, Erin, for giving this morning treat to those of us on this side of the pond. And a BIG thank you to all of those who nominated my stories. I'm overwhelmed, if the "wows" didn't give it away! And congrats to all the other nominees too! Erin's right, voting is going to be *impossible*. Good thing I have less stories to worry about in two categories. ;) Hazel, who is still saying "wow" BTW, Erin: my reply gave me your addy in the "to" box. Looks like whatever happens with Labby's replies are infectious. :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:38:41 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to thank those who nominated my story. That was a very nice surprise to see this morning. There were so many excellent fics in 2000. It looks like it was quite a complicated task working through all those nominations, Erin. Thanks to you and your committe for having the patience to do that. And a good idea to insert that new category -- in it are several of the stories that I had nominated elsewhere so it seems to make things a little easier. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:00:49 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anne wrote: > I've been reading most of the emails coming through and while it's fun to see > the list active, I honestly think that this is a subject that not everyone is > going to agree on. And that we should agree to disagree. > Marnie concurred: And I also have to say that for the most part I agree with Anne on her other points, I think that we are a diverse group with many ways of looking at life and that there are inevitable clashes that will happen in such a group. Agree to disagree, let bygones be bygones and hope to whatever we hold dear that taste continues to hold out over crass anything. Anne, while I *did* appreciate your ratings system and it really made me laugh, I have to respond to the above quotes. It's really not as simple as agreeing to disagree on a point of contention. A serious point has been raised that affects how authors do nfic to gfic conversions in the future and the subsequent discussion has left most of us throughly confused as to how to go about that. Not to mention that if my mailbox is anything to go by half the GEs would no longer know WHAT to do with a conversion if it hit them. I know some authors who are talking about just throwing in the towel completely and not bothering to do conversions any more and I have to admit I'm one of them right now. Not from any kneejerk reaction of anger or bruised feelings or pique, but because we simply haven't the first clue any more as to where the boundary is or what gfic readers are prepared to accept or not accept. And GEs who are considering not handling conversions any more because they no longer feel confident about that boundary either. If I was still a GE I might be in that camp too. Whatever the reason or intention of the threads in the first place, the net result has been an awful lot of confused people out here. For that alone we need to get some consensus as to where the boundary lies. Difficult as that may be, I'll agree. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:59 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? In-Reply-To: <000f01c09f40$5a394580$eb1e8d18@hala1.on.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Marnie: >/thud/ LOL, what a tagline! I agree with Wendy: This deserves to a be a Tank ending for the ep. Well done! Hazel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:42 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to say a very big thank you to everyone who conspired to put Lonesome on the nominees list. [g] I have to admit that this was a big surprise as the competition is so fierce this year especially and there were so many wonderful, high quality fic that with such a crowded list I was convinced that Lonesome would be one of the ones squeezed out of the running if it was nominated at all! So, thank you for proving me wrong! And for the wonderful Monday morning surprise. Now for the bad news...just how on earth do I choose among so many of my favourites and vote? Gulp. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:10:13 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/26/2001 6:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, labrat@BLUEYONDER.CO.UK writes: << Now for the bad news...just how on earth do I choose among so many of my favourites and vote? Gulp. >> I have no answer for this one, as I feel I'm in the same boat! HELP SUPERMAN!!! --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:45:20 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kaethel Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I, too, would like to add my congratulations to all the nominees, and a huge thank you to the people who nominated me. :) It's overwhelming to see my name among those other writers I admire, and all those stories I've enjoyed so very much. :) And LabRat is right, voting is gonna be very hard, indeed! Nominating stories was already very difficult (I probably gave a nightmarish time to Erin with some categories where I just couldn't reduce the number of stories I loved - thanks for putting up with that, Erin :)) but now, how do you want me to choose only *one* story among those? Can we have ties? Please? ;) Though even with ties, there are some categories where I'd probably still be unable to pare my choices down to two . Helene :) (staring at the nominations list and scratching her head, already torn between several choices ) Kaethel@club-internet.fr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:54:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! I don't know what's happened to the list today, or if it's just me, but my email account has received no listmail since midday yesterday! So I didn't see any of this until I checked the web archive. First, THANK YOU so much to everyone who nominated my stories. I'm overwhelmed, embarrassed and delighted. Second, CONGRATULATIONS to everyone whose stories are nominated. I'm with Helene - in some categories voting will be impossible. Third, well done to the Kerth committee, who must have had an incredibly difficult job. I dread to think of the stories which almost made the Best Fic shortlist, or just missed being nominated at all; I know some of my own personal favourites must fall into both of those categories. However, we have a hugely impressive list to choose from - and is this the first time a New Author nominee has SIX nominations in total? That just shows the quality of the new authors we have this year. Great new category as well, though - as I commented on the message boards - when Erin mentioned it first I thought it referred to stories in which L&C go on holiday (vacation) together! On this side of the Atlantic, we'd tend to refer to the stories in that category as festival or special occasion stories. :) Congratulations and good luck, everyone! Wendy (looking at the shortlist and muttering, "Well, if I vote for that there, I can vote for this one here and that other one over there... oh, darn, I still can't vote for that fantastic story... this is a nightmare!) --------- w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:14:10 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow, what a list! I didn't nominate in every category because I haven't read nearly enough fics, so I was surprised to realize just how many good stories there are in each. I'd better start now if I'm going to read enough stories to vote in each category :) I also wanted to thank everyone who nominated my Martha stories/series. I feel very honored to be included among such an impressive group of authors. Kudos to Erin and all the other nomination counters for their quick work... and creating another category, too- wow, I'm impressed! Christy attalanta@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:01:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Marilyn L. Puett" Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! Add me to the list of nominees who are completely blown away! You always think about it when you're writing. And you hope that somehow it just might happen. And when it does, you keep looking at the post over and over and over again, expecting your name to disappear off the page because it was a mistake or your eyes were playing tricks on you. But it's still there and you feel proud just to be among such a great group of writers. Congrats to all the other nominees. I know I'm gonna have a tough time deciding (except of course in the three categories that I'm nominated in ). Marilyn AKA Supermom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:21:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gerry Anklewicz Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, Marilyn, ML doesn't read the list. But, I guess I'll we can let her know the html address (which I've lost btw). Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:37:09 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Amy Linnea Lauters Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! Comments: To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@indiana.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII WOW!!!!! What an amazing list of nominated stories and authors. Congratulations to all the nominees! Amy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:41:51 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Re: Cross posting re a change in my e-mail server In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thanks, Kathy: I really appreciate the information and I will keep this message for future reference but am happy to report that I seem to be getting my mail!!! If you all could see how poorly written the original announcement was, you would all cry out "EDITOR!!!!":) Still, our techies are supposed to give me an update, which I will pass along. Thanks to all for your patience:) Carolyn >On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:39:09 -0500, Carolyn Schnall < >cschnall@MED.CORNELL.EDU> wrote: > > >I just found out that at 5 pm today, a change is being made in my > >e-mail server. A "gateway" is being closed to prevent Spam mail. > >Although it appears that this should not effect most of our server > >users, unfortunately, I am not certain whether this will affect my > >ability to remain subscribed and receive mail from all the lists I am > >on. I have sent an inquiry regarding list subscriptions to our > >technical support offfice and hope to receive a reply soon. > >Let me know if there is a problem, Caroyn, but at least on the fanfic >listserv side, there is no reason for you to lose touch with us. Many of us >read the posts on the website interface. It's faster and more immediate than >getting digests -- you see new posts immediately, and can read them whenever >you have time. And you can easily read only those threads you are interested >in, skipping those with subject lines that don't. Yet your mailbox doesn't >fill up. > >If getting listserv email through your new system is a problem, please go to >the website and set yourself to NOMAIL. This will enable you to still post >from the website (or via email), but you will not get individual posts. If >you decide you must unsubscribe for some reason, you should do this via the >website as well. (That is, you don't have to write Farah to unsubscribe you >-- you are able to do this yourself.) > >The website address is: > >http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/loiscla-general-l.html > >Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:49:03 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Irene D." Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thank you to everyone who nominated my stories. I'm having a hard time keeping my feet on the ground after that!! Congratulations to all those who have been nominated. It truly is an honour. Finally, thanks to Erin and Kathy and Pam and their committees for all their hard work! Irene ===== www.originalequestrianmusic.bigstep.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:21:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Everyone:) I'm speechless . . . and I'm supposed to be a writer. But it just is so great to see that I've been nominated this year. Thank= s to everyone who nominated my stories and congratulations to all the other= nominees. With so many wonderful stories, it's going to be such a hard j= ob to vote for just one in each category. I'd also like to say a very big thank you to Erin and all her helpers for= their terrific organisation. Good luck to all the nominees.:)) Yours Jenni Debbage ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:18:47 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower 4/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay here is part 4. And since I am a victim of FDK addiction (yes, I have spent most of the morning reading Kerth nominations! Congratulations to everyone! Maybe next year. . .), I have decided to go ahead and post part 4 instead of waiting. Have a great day everyone! CM ***** Lois just stood there. Blue jeans. No boxers, no way to prove or disprove her theory - unless. . .an idea began to form in her devious little mind. Clark tried hard to suppress a grin. He had her. She had been expecting green and blue plaid boxers perhaps? "Lois, you're early." "Sorry, I couldn't sleep." She pushed passed him. "Do you have any coffee made?" "No." Clark shut the door and turned to catch up with her. "I can make. . ." He stopped as Lois started pulling the coffee can out of the cabinet. "Or you can make some?" Lois just made the coffee. Her mind going a mile a minute. As soon as the coffee was ready. . . She grinned a little grin. If Clark wasn't Superman, then he'd forgive her. If he was Superman, then it wouldn't matter. "I came by last night and you weren't here. I knocked and knocked." "I was sleeping." Clark wondered why she didn't tell him the whole truth. He figured that she didn't know that she woke him up leaving. "Well, usually you wake up." "I was tired." That was the truth. "Want to talk about it?" "No." "Are you sure?" "Yes." "Okay." He sat at the table and she stood next to the coffeepot. It was almost ready. She poured herself a cup of coffee. "You want some?" "If you're pouring." Lois fixed a cup of coffee for Clark as well. It was going perfectly. She carried the cups over to the table. As she neared, she tripped. It was a controlled trip and both cups of coffee ended up on Clark's calves. It was scalding coffee. Clark tried to remember that he should be in pain. Lois stood up quickly and turned on reporter mode. "Clark, we have to get you out of those jeans." She, completely unselfconciously, pulled Clark to a standing position and started unbuttoning his jeans. "LOIS!" So this was her new plan. "Clark, your legs will get burned. Take the pants off now!" "Fine, but I can do it myself." Clark turned and headed towards the bathroom, trying to remember to limp. Lois followed, doggedly. "Clark, put your legs under cold water." "Lois, you really don't need to watch me." "I've seen you in your boxers before. Now off with the jeans." Clark sighed and took his jeans off, hoping that Lois wouldn't notice that the coffee hadn't bothered his legs at all. He stuck his legs under the cold water running into the tub. Lois took a deep breath. He was wearing boxers. Bright purple boxers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:36:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 4/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awww Carol, This isn't nice. I want MORE!!! LOL. I'm really enjoying the series. Excellent job. ~ Heidi > Okay here is part 4. And since I am a victim of FDK addiction (yes, I > have spent most of the morning reading Kerth nominations! > Congratulations to everyone! Maybe next year. . .), I have decided to go > ahead and post part 4 instead of waiting. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:32:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also have to thank everyone who nominated my stories ... it was an extremely tough year so I'm especially honored to have made it alongside such marvellous competition! Voting will be nearly impossible. I'd also like to thank all the folks who so graciously help us out, every year ... Genevieve, Lauren, Diyan, Hazel & Wendy, everyone who nominated, everyone who will vote, and all the people who will be helping us with the IRC ceremony :) Without you guys, the Kerths wouldn't even exist. Oh yeah, and authors are kinda important, too ;) Congrats to everyone who made the final cut ... I think one category was pretty self-evident, but the rest were jam-packed with terrific stories -- even the ones which didn't make it to the ballot were fabulous! I hate to think how many 5 and 6 way ties we're going to have :) -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 4/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL, Carol This is a very funny little series; you have a gift for comedy! Can't wait to see where your devious little mind takes this next -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:56:37 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Missy Gallant Subject: Strangers II: Becoming Partners - Epilogue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed First of all, I send out a huge THANK YOU! to Kath Roden for her faithful and excellent BR-ing on this story. I appreciate her help very much. I also need to thank JoMarch and Avia for helping with this ending. Thanks a lot! Also Ann McBride, Paul Weiner and Helene for their reading contributions along the way. Epilogue ********* Landing in the alleyway behind the corner cafe, Clark let Lois's legs drop to the ground. The time spent in the clouds with Lois meant the world to him; it was a very poignant and moving experience to finally know that he was on the verge of having all the aspects of his life coming together at last. Of course, there were sure to be a few bumps along the way - he still had the media and the Miracle maniacs to deal with. It probably would still be a few days before he knew where his position with them stood, but he was sure to get the preliminary feedback tomorrow, or even tonight if he watched the news on television. Although he had tidied up his desk there earlier, the Daily Planet was so close that he might stop in to see what kind of reports were coming from around the world about Superman. And whatever this *thing* that was going on between him and Lois... well, he was ready for the ride. While they were drifting back to the city, a huge peace settled over him. He was ready to take whatever Lois could give him at her own pace and he would be happy with it. Heck, what they had between them right now was pretty special. If after only three encounters of spending time together created *this* - this wonderful connection that seemed to spring up whenever he was in her presence - then who knew what a substantial amount of time could produce for them? It was time to get back to the real world, Lois thought as her feet touched the ground. She hoped she hadn't wasted too much time in getting back here. Even though it seemed liked it was a leisurely trip, if she had taken a taxi back from EPRAD, she'd probably still be out there. From up in the air, she saw the massive traffic jam coming out of the government's property, and was thankful that she had waited for Kal to take her back. And she wouldn't have missed walking on air with her friend for anything. She recovered her balance, then straightened her skirt before looking at Kal. "I guess this is it... " "Yeah... for now," Clark said reluctantly. He shuffled his feet slowly. Why was it so hard to say good bye to Lois? He knew he'd be seeing her again, probably really soon, but it felt like he was leaving the planet. What a special time he did have leaving the planet with Lois today - having her float with him side by side, feeling her head on his shoulder, and having her actually agree to his helping her out. Helping her out? He suddenly realized he was supposed to give her some money. "Hey! I almost forgot!" Clark fished around his back under the cape and drew out his wallet. He opened it up, but didn't see the gleam in Lois' eyes as she took note of the billfold in his hands. Clark had his back turned partially from her and didn't see her sneak around his back until she had snatched the wallet from his hands. "Hey! Whattaya doing?" he exclaimed, trying to grab for the wallet. "You said," she claimed, smiling at him, "that if I found out who you were, then you would let me know. So I'm just finding out." Lois lifted her head at him triumphantly, then proceeded to open his wallet. "Hold it there, Miss Sticky Fingers! I didn't say that you could *take* the information. You have to play fair!" He grabbed her around the waist with one arm, reaching for the wallet with the other. She ducked under his arm, flashed a dazzling smile at him, then opened up his wallet. Clark's face went pale when he realized that she intended to rifle through his personal identification. Old instincts flared up to protect his identity, and he put on a bit of super speed to take his wallet back. Lois held on tightly and his two credit cards *and* his Daily Planet press pass came falling to the ground. Clark grabbed them before they could hit the pavement *and* before Lois could get a good look at them. He stood up in relief, then noticed the frown on Lois' face. "I'm not going to believe that you still don't trust me; because I can't for the life of me figure out why it scares you so much to have me know your real name." She stared up at him, twinges of hurt flickering in her eyes. "I'm sorry, Lois! You deserve to know who I am; it's still all those old fears rearing their ugly heads again. Please forgive me." "Kal, it's ok. You don't have to tell me, I *think* I understand. Who am I to criticize someone for their fears? I have enough for both of us, but... " She sighed, reaching back into her memories to look at her own shortcomings. It always seemed to boil down to trust - trusting and being trusted - she never could reach a balance between the two. Kal had confided *so* much to her since they had known each other; now she had pressed him too much. She couldn't expect him to tell her everything about himself - not after the reasons they both had laid out the other day when they had first met. Still, a part of her had been hurt when he had defensively scrambled for his credit cards. He didn't trust her enough yet to reveal his secret; but surely their friendship had deepened now that they had gotten to know each other better. They'd been through so much already. Oh no! He'd hurt her without realizing it. Was it *that* important to keep 'Clark Kent' from her? That first night it was, but now? Clark suddenly yearned to tell her everything about himself and to erase the wounded look from her face. But to reassure her of his trust was only one reason why he wanted to share his real identity with her. Those fears seemed unreasonable now; he was on the cusp of something he had only dreamed about. If he were to keep building her trust, what more could he do, than let her know who he really was? Clark set his free hand on her shoulder to draw her attention. When she didn't lift her eyes up to him, he turned her face toward him with the back of his hand. Bestowing on her a heartfelt smile, he said sincerely, "I trust you completely. I never meant for you to think that I didn't." "I thought so, " she said, still eyeing him a little doubtfully. "Anyway, I think it might be easier if you knew my real identity, then we wouldn't have to sneak around like we're doing something wrong. I'm still concerned for your safety; personally knowing Superman could set you up as a target, but we've been flying around all day without being discovered. If you knew who I was, then we could be normal friends, instead of worrying about who was coming around the corner." "You think so?" she asked, her face lighting up a few watts. "Uh huh," he replied, then thought he would tease her a bit. "But you know Lois, we ran into each other today in this huge city. There's always that possibly again, especially since I might even work in this part of town. And I *thought* we had a bet." "Bet?" Lois thought for a moment. "Ohhhh! That bet, the one where I would recognize you. Well, stranger, I still think I could." "But you don't have to; I can tell you who I am now. But we'll never know, will we? You give up?" He held out his wallet for her to take, then threw out a hint about himself for her to bite. "It's not like you are some *investigative reporter* or looking for a job in that area." "Wait a minute! You don't think I can do it, do you?" "I didn't say that," Clark answered quickly. "But you implied it, and that's just as bad." "Lois, I don't care about that bet anymore. I never made it in the first place. Here, take the wallet and find out. Or just let me tell you. I'm Cl.." She clamped a hand over his mouth. "Don't say it, Kal," she contended. "Like you said, we ran into each other today; it will happen again. Only when I see you as whoever you really are, I'll know it." Clark grinned beneath the fingers covering his mouth. "Okay, okay!" he murmured, then continued after she'd removed her hand, "But in light of your refusal to accept my peace offering, this is your final chance to find out from me; otherwise, you're just going to have to be a little *investigator* now, aren't you?" he teased, still holding out the wallet, waiting for her to take it. Why was he harping on about her being an 'investigator'? Maybe he didn't think that she could really recognize him. Or did he know more than he was letting on? Couldn't be. He was just goading her, that's all. "I will be, you'll see. Then after I win this bet, *you* get to take me out to the best restaurant in Metropolis." "And what happens if you don't recognize me? Say... I see you on the street and you walk right by me, how long do I wait until letting you know who I am? One minute... two?" "You are really being smug." "Two weeks?" "Not gonna happen..." "What do I get if I win?" "Nothing. Because as you said before, it's not your bet." "So I can just stay quiet, knowing that I've won, and that will be enough?" "If that's what blows your cape, have at it." "Hmmm... private gloating. Now where's the fun in that?" "I guess you'll never find out." Clark squelched a hearty laugh into a distorted chuckle as he enfolded her in his arms for a brief hug. He had no doubt that this woman could talk a zebra out of its stripes if she wanted them badly enough. "Hurry up and find me, because I can't wait to take you to this restaurant I know. It has the best raspberry chocolate cheesecake I've ever eaten," Clark said, amusedly. "That is, *after* you've caved in and demanded to know who I am." "In your dreams, fly boy." "Always, Lois." Clark's attention to Lois was interrupted as he felt a vibration in his pocket. He pulled his cell phone out of another pocket hidden behind his back. "Hello!... Yes, that's me." Clark answered after flipping open his phone. It seemed so natural to do this in front of Lois in light of his decision to let her know who he was. "What?.... Where?" The shock on his face startled Lois. She assumed he was talking to his boss, but what could have him looking so upset? "I see... thanks for letting me know. No problem." Clark snapped his phone shut and looked at Lois grimly. "Sorry, but I need to leave right away. Something's come up." He opened his wallet and pressed a few bills in Lois' hand. Looking apologetically at her, he said quickly, "I hate to just shove money in your hand and run, but please know that this day, between spending time with you and becoming Superman, has been the best day I've had since I've learned I can fly." "I've enjoyed it too," Lois replied. "But what's so..." "I *really* have to go," Clark said urgently, giving the hand with the money in it a gentle squeeze. "I'll talk to you soon." Lois watched him speed down the alleyway, then a second later heard a sonic boom roaring from the sky. What could he have going on in his life that would cause him to bolt like that? She'd have to ask him the next time she saw him. Maybe she should have taken that wallet, she thought as she walked out of the alleyway onto the street. But now it was time to see about that job again. She gripped her bag with the written article a little more firmly, and headed down the street to the Daily Planet. ******* For the third time that day, Lois sat in Perry White's office waiting for his decision to hire her. She had been lucky enough to catch the editor in his office, though it was highly probable that he was always there at this time of day. As she sat there waiting for him to read her article, the day's activities began to creep up on her. It had been nonstop since arriving that morning except for the break she had while waiting for Kal at EPRAD. She was hungry and tired and desperately wanted to leave this evening with a job. And she had to meet Bobby Bigmouth in about an hour down at the docks. She hoped she could find the energy and the mental stamina to keep going. Mr. White had been stunned to see her again that day and reluctantly agreed to read what she had penned about the arrival of Superman. Finally, the old editor peered out from over her handwritten article and smiled at her. Her stomach tightened into a knot as she waited for him to speak. "Lois, can I call you that?" She nodded her permission and held her breath. The older man sighed and gave her a weak smile, then spoke, "Lois. You've been in here an awful lot today for someone who is not even working at this newspaper and I really appreciate the hard work that you've done today. There is no doubt in my mind that you would work just as hard for me if you were employed here." Perry cleared his throat, and continued, "I think both of us can agree that human interest stories are not your strongest point. You've got a nose for hard journalism; I've read your stuff from 'The Journal', and now this article you wrote about this new guy Superman is excellent. The first hand account that you've described is first class; an editor couldn't be prouder if one of his own had written it. But here's where the problem lies, honey; my top reporter has going to press at this very moment, a personal interview with this Superman. He was there too; he saw everything unfold like you did." Perry flinched as he watched the disappointment and shock flood Lois' face, but he needed to say the rest. "I can't hire you yet, darlin'. I need my reporters to get the news first. It doesn't make a difference how well it's written or if you've got the hottest story of the decade; if someone else goes to print first, it's old news. I can't use this article because I already have one with the same content." "Yet. You said yet. Does this mean I still have a chance?" Lois said with a bit of hope in her voice, but lump in her throat was almost overwhelming her. He sighed, then said with a smile, "The deal was, you get me something I can print and you have a job. You keep trying, Lois. Get out there tomorrow and keep trying." He handed her a tissue to dry the moisture that was welling in her eyes. In the name of all that was Elvis, he hated to let her go like this, but he had to see what she was made of. If his suspicions were correct, this woman had enough grit and fire to set the whole news room on its ear - not to mention what she could do teamed up with one Kerth winning reporter. "Mr. White?" "Call me Perry." "Perry? Can I ask you something?" "Sure darlin'. What is it?" "Who was the reporter who got the interview with Superman?" "Oh! That's Clark Kent, my top reporter. Surely you've heard of him." Lois sucked in her breath between her clenched teeth. "Yes, I've heard of him." Unfortunately, she thought. The phone rang and Perry waved at her as she got up to leave. Perry pounded his fist on the top of his desk enthusiastically. "Now get out there and prove yourself!" He dismissed her with his hand and turned his attention to his phone call after Lois had left his office. "Yeah! Whaddya got Clark?" he answered. "Dead? Found floating where?" "Great shades of Elvis! Hobb's Bay again! Are they sure it's Samuel Platt?" Lois leaned against the wall outside of Perry's office and listened to the editor's one-sided conversation. Hobb's Bay? Again? Did this mean that Bobby was right about all those bodies he said were somewhere in the bay? Could this be related to *her* story? "Get down to those docks and start nosing around." "Yeah, that's too bad. Later, Kent." She couldn't believe that Kal had given his first interview to this Kent guy. How could he do this to her? Of course, Kal had no idea that *she* was a reporter, at least she didn't think so. Those taunts of his a little earlier were somewhat suspicious, but how could he possibly know? When had he found the time today to talk to Kent? He did say that he had left for a few moments to take care of something. He could have been interviewed while she was writing her article. That must have been the time he met up this 'reporter'. There was one thing she knew and that was that 'Clark Kent' was not going to horn in on her investigation. This reporter was becoming a real thorn in her side, first he had interviewed Kal, and now he had his nose in on her story down by the docks. The audacity of that smarmy, self-serving jerk, she thought, remembering her distasteful encounter with him and Cat that morning. She would just have to be smarter and quicker than he; at least she had the advantage of knowing who was the competition and she could plan accordingly. This wasn't journalism; this was war, and she had just declared it on Clark Kent. ***** The end... for now. To be continued in Strangers III.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:53:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Labby, I was not saying that nfic authors should give up on gficing their stories or that it was not confusing. I actually was trying to get across that there was no way that we could all agree. I think that no matter how tame nfic writers were to make the nfic turned gfic, that a lot of the time the content of the fic itself is more adult. That is hard to dumb down without ruining the story. And I personally like having adult stories about the characters without the graphic sex. Marilyn wrote a story that had no sex in it, but it had to be placed on the Nfic board due to subject matter alone. Maybe we should have an *adult* section for the archive where its not about sex but about adult matters. I know that certain stories that I have read are not likely to be appreciated by children even if they are gficed, but they would be appreciated by adults who just don't want the sheer graphic nature that creeps into nfic most other times. We could get suggestions written in for what ppl would like to see and what they would rather not see. For example, I do not need to know much beyond a hint of actual lovemaking, i do like banter and innuendo, I just can do without the actual graphic blow by blow accounts of the bedplay. I really don't want to know how moist her center was, or how hard and insistant his sword of love is, or how he skewers her with it. If she melts agaist him as he pulls her close and they make their way to the bedroom to take joy in each other is fine by me, not for a kid but for me its fine. I would have to say that I am not your best choice to ask tho because i just skim the parts that I am not too interested in, but others would have to chime in and say for certain what they are not interested in. Is it the adult nature of the story itself or the sex? Marnie ~Pobody's Nerfect ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:13:01 -0600 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Congratulations to all the nominees. merry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:11:31 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/26/2001 12:49:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sirenegold@YAHOO.COM writes: << Thank you to everyone who nominated my stories. I'm having a hard time keeping my feet on the ground after that!! >> It was such a struggle to figure out which categories you didn't fit into this year . You hit so many of them. :) --Laurie (Irene's #1 fan) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:26:00 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! In-Reply-To: <3A9AA159.D51F34F8@bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:32 PM 26/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >Oh yeah, and authors are kinda important, too ;) Er, yes, I would think so. :) As an aside: SuperRob's site (http://fly.to/folc-archive) is uploading the eps right now once a week for a two-week running, and I just downloaded "Wall of Sound." I find it incredibly amusing that he should put that particular ep on his site on the same day Erin posted the nominations! It was an interesting ep, BTW. Lois was very warm and friendly to Clark... until, of course, he shot himself in the foot by visiting her as Supes. :) And tell me, how many people thought that the rose Lois gave him was from a bouquet that *he* had given *her*? ;) Hazel, who loves the opportunity to see more eps :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:46:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gerry Anklewicz Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! In-Reply-To: <20010226174903.5889.qmail@web906.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks from me too for nominating my story and thanks for opening up a new category to fit my story in. I'm not a prolific writer, so I thought my story would get buried under all the other great stories. Congratulations to the other nominees. I do love reading your fics. Gerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:43 -0700 Reply-To: erink@ida.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Erin Klingler Subject: Kerth Nominations Correction--Episode Adapt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A quick note... One of the stories shotlisted in 'Episode Adaptation' was mistyped. Chris Carr's story in 'Ep Adapt' should've been 'Learning Curves,' NOT the second part, 'Love, Loyalty and Luthor' which appears in 'Best Villain.' I'm making the changes on my webpage as we speak. Sorry, Chris, for the oversight, and sorry, Genevieve, for giving you corrections for your great site. My tired eyes at 2am didn't catch that oversight as I was typing early this morning. But gosh, sitting up with a sick baby and typing a list of nominees was a little tricky...I'm just glad to hear that it's the only 'oops' there. Well, so far. Sorry again for the oversight! Erin (off to try to bribe the three kids who are home from school to take some quiet time in their bedrooms so I can try to nap. Shyeah, right. ) __________________ erink@ida.net Visit my LNC/Kerth Website: www.ida.net/users/davek ***** "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen." __________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:40:54 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must add my congratulations, too, to all the nominated authors, and basically everyone who wrote a story last year. Several stories I nominated didn't make the list, but I still loved them. :) Keep up the great work! Mols ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:20:37 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: 2001 Kerths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What a surprise! Many thanks to the kind FOLCs who honored my story, The Circle Game. It's really special in light of the high calibre of stories eligible and nominated this year. Congratulations to all of the other nominees and a really big THANK YOU to Erin and the rest of the Kerth crew for their hard work. Oh dear. I guess this means that I'll finally have to learn how to get on IRC. :) Jude ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:54:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Wow! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm really new here -- I joined to get a feel for fanfic and those who write it because I've been "playing" with my own. I've been reading the Kerth award nominees this afternoon and all I can say is WOW! These are excellent pieces. I am VERY impressed. Good job all! ~ Heidi <--going back to real life since dh just got home and I don't DARE let him see me teary-eyed from reading some of these, LOL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:46:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Chris Carr Subject: Re: Kerth Nominations Correction--Episode Adapt On Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:54:43 -0700, Erin Klingler wrote: >A quick note... > >One of the stories shotlisted in 'Episode Adaptation' was mistyped. Chris >Carr's story in 'Ep Adapt' should've been 'Learning Curves,' NOT the second >part, 'Love, Loyalty and Luthor' which appears in 'Best Villain.' I'm making >the changes on my webpage as we speak. Sorry, Chris, for the oversight, No problem! I couldn't quite understand what LLL was doing as an episode adaptation. Suddenly, things make much more sense! :) Could I please just take this opportunity to say thank you to those kind people who nominated this, and my other stories. Thanks Chris (back to lurking) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:49:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessi Mounts Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh. My. Gosh. Wow. I wish you could have heard my shriek upon reading the nominations. I wouldn't be all that suprised if some of you did. I know I'm supposed to be doing the dignified author thing here, but, just, wow! I'm nominated for Kerth Awards! I'm getting little statues next to my stories! I'm in the same category as Chris Mulder! I'm in complete and total shock. Thanks so much, everyone, for the nominations. I haven't got a clue how I slipped in there with some authors who I'm thorougly convinced are the best anywhere, but it's certainly going to narrow down the voting in a couple categories. The others, on the other, are going to be just plain impossible to choose between. Congratulations to all the wonderful writers. Thanks for making Kerths such a difficult decision. :) Jessi jessi914@mail.com ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for nominating me! I hope to be back on line and able to get on IRC when the award show is, um, broadcast :) Debby huitziln@cais.net (til the end of 03/31/01<--just found that out( ...wishing my nomination, 7 Days of... had gotten on the list... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >BEST COMEDY: > >48 Hours Without a Superman--Kathryn Ann Kent >AOL: A Revelation Story of the Alternate Kind--Rose >Pagimon--Tara Smith >Saving Geckoboy--Debby Stark >Seeking Asylum--Shayne Terry >The Ultimate Drug--Hazel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:16:16 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: StarKitty Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you, everyone who nominated my story! I know how many good stories mine was measured against and I'm frankly stunned that mine made the list of nominees! And congrats to all the others who were nominated! Tara ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:31:35 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marnie wrote: > I was not saying that nfic authors should give up on gficing their stories > or that it was not confusing. I actually was trying to get across that there > was no way that we could all agree. Oh, I understand that, Marnie - there was no intention to accuse anyone of taking it too lightly in my earlier post. I know it may look as though I'm banging on this drum just to be pedantic , but for reasons which I don't want to go into at the moment, it just so happens that it's important I figure out where the boundary is, beyond the need to get it right as an author doing conversions. But I disagree. We had consensus in the past - things have rolled along just fine for as long as I've been a FoLC with regard to conversions and the Archive. If we were able to have a consensus before that most people were happy with, I believe it should be possible to get to the stage where we have a concensus again. Not necessarily an agreement - you may well be right there. But at the very least an accomodation and a system that most are happy with on both sides of the divide. It's worked up till now, why not in the future? I think that no matter how tame nfic > writers were to make the nfic turned gfic, that a lot of the time the > content of the fic itself is more adult. That is hard to dumb down without > ruining the story. And I personally like having adult stories about the > characters without the graphic sex. Marilyn wrote a story that had no sex in > it, but it had to be placed on the Nfic board due to subject matter alone. > [Yes, I addressed this issue in a thread on the nfic mbs and I agree entirely.] > Maybe we should have an *adult* section for the archive where its not about > sex but about adult matters. I know that certain stories that I have read > are not likely to be appreciated by children even if they are gficed, but > they would be appreciated by adults who just don't want the sheer graphic > nature that creeps into nfic most other times. We could get suggestions > written in for what ppl would like to see and what they would rather not > see. > [I think the concensus on that particular thread was that there was no real need to make any great changes in the way things are officially done, but there is an unofficial concensus that all adult themed fic, be it containing sexual content or not, is welcome to be posted on the nfic forum on the mbs. ] [Anyway, after doing some serious thought on the subject today, I've come to the conclusion that I'm being unnecessarily skittish, and that I'll be able to sort it all out in the wash with some private email discussion and at least work out an accomodation of my own on the subject that I feel comfortable with. :)] LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:25:15 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! - Many Thanks!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/26/01 2:26:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, zis-s@ACTCOM.CO.IL writes: > And tell me, how many people thought that the rose Lois gave him was from a > bouquet that *he* had given *her*? ;) > Obviously, I did, because I used that in "Triangle Built for Two." Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:39:41 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Bethy Em Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey Marnie, thought I'd let you know again that I loved your ficlet! And here's my contribution: Wind roared past his ears as he plummeted at breakneck speed toward the pavement. "Geez, I gotta quit doing this. It's getting kinda old," he thought as he added a burst of speed. He strained as he went, hoping to make it before they hit the ground. Almost, almost, just about there... Got 'em! Grinning, he changed his angle and swooped back up to the sky. In his arms, Lois glared at him as she tried to fix her hair, which had flown into her eyes as he went on that crazy chase. She opened her mouth and he braced himself for a tirade, knowing at the same time that he deserved whatever she thought fit to say. It wasn't as if this was the first time he'd done this. He really ought to have learned by now. "That's it, Clark! From now on, I carry the keys when flying!" (My mom LOLed, but my sister said, "Huh?" Y'all get it, right?) Bethy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:50:19 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Becky Bain Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! In-Reply-To: <200102261321_MC2-C6E6-5711@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed **sent this out this morning, but accidentally sent it only to Erin! Oops...** I have to say, it's a real honor to be included in such august company! Wow. And many thanks to the Kerth committee for what is obviously a great deal of hard work! Now I have to go reread all those terrific stories... Becky rbain@qwest.net "Anxiety is the handmaiden of creativity." - Chuck Jones, Warner Brothers animator ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:11:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Liz S Subject: Re: First Flight Hi Carol! I am anxiously awaiting "First Flight" for whenever you post it. Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:16:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Liz S Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 4/? Carol, I just had to chuckle over this part, when Lois didn't react at all to Clark's fear of her noticing him not getting burned, and, instead, all she noticed were his purple boxers! Can't wait for part 5. Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:10:54 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower, 5/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Clark sighed and took his jeans off, hoping that Lois wouldn't notice that the coffee hadn't bothered his legs at all. He stuck his legs under the cold water running into the tub. Lois took a deep breath. He was wearing boxers. Bright purple boxers. ***** Clark heard her sharp intake of breath. He smiled. He hadn't wanted to put on bright purple boxers, but he hadn't done laundry in a while. He wasn't even sure where he got them; they probably came in a package with some others. Lois didn't know that he had boxers as crazy as some of his ties! He knew that he ought to just tell her that he was Superman, but he had kept the secret for so long, and he had never actually told anyone else, that he didn't know how to tell her. Of course, she probably wasn't ready to hear that he was totally, completely, head over heels in love with her either. "Lois, look. I'm fine." Clark pointed to his wet legs. "There's not even any red marks. The jeans must have soaked it all up." "Clark, that's not possible. I've been burned before, through a pair of jeans. And it hurt like the dickens." "Well, for whatever reason, my legs don't hurt at all, and they aren't even red." He toweled off his legs and walked into his room. He rummaged through his drawers and pulled out another pair of jeans and a T-shirt. Lois watched him, looking closely at his legs. They weren't red at all. She knew that the coffee should have burned him. She knew that if he was Superman, he should have been wearing blue and green plaid boxers. He was wearing purple boxers. She didn't know why he owned a pair of purple boxers; maybe his taste in boxers was as eclectic as his taste in ties. But the coffee hadn't burned him. Could he have known that she was there? Could she have woken him up when she left? If he was Superman, then he could have seen through the door and known. That was one explanation. The other was that he wasn't Superman, and that somehow he really didn't get burned from the coffee. Lois sighed. What was she going to do now? She still didn't really know that he wasn't Superman. It was still possible. The question was how was she going to prove it now? She'd come up with something. She had to. ***** After Clark dressed, they sat down to new cups of coffee. "So, Lois, now that you've tried to scar me for life, what do we plan on doing today?" "Oh, I don't know. How about skydiving or something?" "Feeling adventurous, are we?" Clark grinned. She must be trying to come up with a new plan to prove he was Superman and knowing Lois as he did, it would probably involve putting herself in danger. He couldn't let that happen. He'd sacrifice everything to keep her from getting hurt. He'd even tell her that he was Superman. Maybe he should. Maybe he should just tell her. But, then he'd never see her again. But if he really wanted to spend his life with her, and he did, then he'd have to tell her. Soon. ***** Finally, they decided to spend the day at the park. Clark packed a picnic lunch for them and they took a frisbee, a soccer ball, a baseball, and a basketball. Maybe they could play a little one-on-one later. Clark grinned when Lois made that comment. They walked to the park, enjoying the sunshine, and the company. Lois forgot about trying to prove that Clark was Superman and just enjoyed being with Clark. They spend the next couple of hours playing soccer and throwing the frisbee. It was no surprise to either of them when the obviously overmatched Lois won their little soccer game. Laughing, Lois sat on the blanket that Clark brought as he chased down her latest attempt to throw a frisbee in his direction. They were both laughing hysterically as it sailed to the other side of the park, nowhere near Clark. Lois watched him. *If you aren't careful, Lane, you're going to fall for him.* Was that such a bad thought? Clark was her partner and her very best friend. She loved him, she knew that. But what kind of love? Was it friend love or was it romantic love? Did she LOVE love him? Was she capable of loving someone like that? She hadn't loved Luthor like that, and certainly not Claude. Clark had told her he loved her sitting on that bench, right over there. And she knew he meant it, no matter what he said later. And what if he was Superman? If he really was, then why hadn't he told her? And could she really trust him? Trust wasn't easy for her and Clark knew that. If he was Superman, he needed to tell her and tell her soon. "Dollar for your thoughts?" Clark sat down next to Lois on the blanket. "Huh? Dollar? I thought it was a penny." "It is, but you looked like your thoughts were worth more than that." "They are." Clark dug in his pocket and fished out a dollar bill. "So, what are they?" Lois took the dollar. "None of your business." "Then give me my dollar back." Clark reached for it, but Lois laughingly held it out of his reach. He reached for it again, but she held it even farther away. He reached for her middle and began tickling her. "Clark, that's not fair!" Lois had to struggle to get the words out as she struggled against the firm grip that Clark had on her. She managed to wriggle out of his grasp long enough to roll off the blanket and stand up. Clark grabbed her ankle, careful not to hurt her. She tried to get away, but was unsuccessful. Finally, in her attempts to run, she fell to the ground, laughing. "Clark, let me go!" "Never. Now give me my dollar!" Clark pulled himself towards her. Lois had an idea. The whole point was no longer about keeping the dollar but having some fun. She stuck the dollar inside her bra. "Let's see you get it now." "Watch me." "You wouldn't." "Wouldn't I?" Lois looked at him nervously. He just might do it. She couldn't have that. She struggled against him again. Clark held her down, tickling her some more. They were both laughing so hard that even Clark was losing his breath. Lois somehow managed to get out from her position halfway underneath his muscular body. "Turnabout's fair play!" She started to tickle him. Clark didn't know if he was ticklish. He had been as a child, but once he had started getting super powers, he hadn't had anyone tickle him. Lois was the first. And he couldn't help laughing, even though he wasn't really sure it tickled. It was just being with Lois. Clark easily managed to get away from Lois. "Watch out!" he growled. Lois stood up and started to run across the open field in the park, laughing the whole way. Clark stood and gave chase. He was careful not to catch her too quickly, but he soon had her in his grasp. He wrapped his big arms around her and easily lifted her off the ground. Lois' legs kicked the air. "Put me down!" "Give me my dollar." "Never. Put me down!" "Never." Clark swung her ups so he was carrying her in his arms instead of around her stomach and carried her to the fountain. "I'll drop you in," he threatened. "You wouldn't." "I would." He looked. The water wasn't that deep. She'd be fine. "Give me my dollar, or you're going swimming." "No!" Lois wasn't known for her negotiating ability. "Your choice." Clark dropped her into the fountain. Lois spit and sputtered as she sat up. Her eyes were full of wicked fun. "I give. I'll give you your dollar." She reached out a hand to him. He laughed, feeling quite proud of himself for getting the better of the indomitable Lois Lane. He grasped her hand to pull her out of the fountain. Lois gripped his hand and pulled. Clark was caught off guard and fell in, right on top of Lois. He pushed up onto his elbows as Lois tried to force him off of her. He looked at the soaking wet, absolutely gorgeous woman there. Their lips were millimeters apart. There was a kiss coming - they both knew it. And they waited. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:02:39 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Bethy Em Subject: Fanfic question on Amnesia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed More questions. Okay, I've got a character with recent amnesia. L&C are trying to find out how far the amnesia extends, and are asking questions. I know (or think, at least) in ASU, Lois took Clark to the Planet, and showed him stuff, asking if he remembered anything. That won't work in this case. Oh, and L&C don't know the person, if that makes any difference. (IE They can't ask any leading questions like: Do you remember who Martha Kent is?) So, my question is: What questions would they ask? Any and all ideas welcome, even if they are crazy. Who knows, crazy might work. ;-) Reply to the list or to jextra42@hotmail.com Thanks, Bethy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:04:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: A Comic Relief (was all the other topic's recently ;) On Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:38:45 EST, Annette Ciotola wrote: ]>Squeaky Clean - Even dear old Walt (Disney) would be proud ... >Slightly Soiled - Some innuendo, but no nookie. >Hot Tamle - Hinting at Nookie, but leaving it to the imagination as we fade >to black at the bedroom door. >Come to Mama - Not for the weak at heart, only posted at the Nfic Archive Cute, Anne. :) Another FoLC and I were playing with the "S-L-V-D" ratings the other day and came up with some similarly funny suggestions -- like "STD" for unprotected intercourse (ok, ok, an nfic designation), "LI" for lengthy introspection, and "AF" for "angst free". LOL! :) As for the suggestion that something like this be used on the Archive -- aren't we doing that already? I mean, IMO, the above descriptions are words that could definte G, PG, PG-13 and nfic, respectively. :) >Since this has begun I've seen some really good arguments and I've seen some >'Wow, I can't believe that someone posted that.' I've also begun to sense >that there might have been some hurt feelings along the way. I haven't read the MB side of this thread in a day or two, so maybe you are refering to some hurt feelings on that side. I hope there aren't any here -- I've felt everyone has been doing a good job at expressing themselves without getting personal. Disagreement doesn't mean "I don't like you" or "I don't respect you". It just means we disagree. And there have been a number of very good points raised -- most of us don't see all sides of an issue until these things are debated, and I know at least in my case, I almost always gain new insight from the debates/discussions we have here. I know I have in this case. Of course, this might just mean that you all are talking about me behind my back and aren't expressing your full upset on the list ;) but I guess that's what I get paid the big bucks for ... er, wait ... I do this for free. Why am I doing this again??? Guess it's time to quit. ;) Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:52:45 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) Trying to combo post to address some of the points raised in this batch of posts ... Wendy: re "laziness" -- you're right, it was a poor choice of words. What I was refering to was the lack of desire to "rework" a gfic instead of just cutting certain words out of an nfic, say to add back in some internalization or narrative that was integral to the plot but would have to be deleted along with an nfic section. In my MB post, I had clarified my statement to add "or maybe doing more work that necessary" to describe the process of going through the story with a fine tooth comb, but I did not bring that up on this listserv. (The problem with carrying on two parallel conversations -- hard to remember what you said where!) I agree with you that most nfic writers (I say most, because I know it's not all -- you haven't seen the stories that have been submitted that were rejected outright) work very hard at conversions. I didn't mean to insult anyone or their work in that area. But remember, too, that I'm seeing a lot more of this than any one GE is -- each GE might edit 1 or 2 nfic convertions for every 10 that I see. An individual GE might see a few cases of "too much" in a long story and not think it's a big deal. But multiply that by 10 GEs and you realize that I'm seeing dozens of these lines. Yet a year or two ago, I saw hardly any. LabRat: re being more confused than ever -- I'm sorry (and surprised) to hear that authors are talking about refusing to do conversions anymore. It wasn't my intent by bringing the problem up (nor was it Hazel's, I'm sure), though it seems like these rumblings start every time a disagreement comes up. Personally, it seems like an extreme reaction to me, and not a very productive one, but everyone has to make that decision for themselves. To be honest, I don't see this as being as complicated as others seem to. All I'm asking is that nfic authors be a bit more conservative when deciding what can and can't stay in. Yes, that's vague, and obviously we all have different standards about what's PG-13 vs R. But there have definitely been cases of people submitting stories with lines/descriptions in there that aren't even close, and it's getting more and more frequent. So now that the subject has been raised, hopefully authors will give their choices some more thought before they submit their stories. I don't think that's a lot to ask, but it's clear that many authors are stymied. To respond to your suggestion of a conversion FAQ -- very good idea! Any volunteers to put it together? I think it would be a good resource to have, though you're right about not linking it directly from the Archive since it would have to contain nfic or nfic-like descriptions to be helpful. Helene: re specific examples of "blow by blow sex scenes" -- I haven't gone through the Archive to come up with racy examples, in part because I didn't want to single anyone out or put anyone on the spot. But you are right that it is hard to debate something without examples to point to. However, I must mention that one of the reason you haven't read any gfic with "blow by blow sex scenes" is because the Archive editing staff has the author delete them before they get uploaded! Part of what I'm refering to are scenes that no one besides me and my GEs have seen -- those scenes/lines that the GEs copy to me in an email saying "I think this is over the line; what do you think?" and my eyes pop and I say "Yes! They must take that out!!" And as I said above, I'm seeing ten times as much of this as any individual GE is. Unfortunately, this makes me look like I'm over-reacting, since no one else is seeing things to the extent I am. As for my example line of "Lois pressed against Clark passionately" not being enough to convey the point of an author's paragraph, please recognize that I was 1) making up an example completely out of context and 2) purposely not writing the nfic alternative to stay within the PG confines of *this* list. Does that clarify things? Or just confuse the issue more? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Fanfic question on Amnesia On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:02:39 -0000, Bethy Em wrote: >More questions. Okay, I've got a character with recent amnesia. L&C >are trying to find out how far the amnesia extends, and are asking >questions. >So, my question is: What questions would they ask? The classic that I've always heard used is "Who's the President?" (for an American character, natch). Coaches ask this of sports players who have been knocked out on the field, for example, too. If the person remembers some stuff, but not recent things, asking "what year is it?" would help tag how many years they've lost. You said they can't ask leading questions about people in the victim's life, but what about current events or media? Maybe naming some famous movie stars to see if the person knows who they are? (Even Lois knew who Charleton Heston was -- even if she thought *he* was the President. ) Are these the kinds of Q's you are looking for? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:11:31 +1100 Reply-To: Patricia Walpole Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Patricia Walpole Subject: Re: 2001 Kerths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am just catching up on everything here. Better late than never! Congratulations to everyone whose story was nominated. The standard=20 of stories is fantastic. Voting for one per category will almost be = impossible. A big thank you to Erin and the Kerth committee for all their hard work. Good luck to everyone! Tricia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:33:23 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This one seems a bit of a long shot to me, but on the other hand members of this list have come up with some pretty obscure answers in the past! So here goes: Does anyone know about INS procedures in respect of validating a marriage for naturalisation purposes? In particular, I'd like to know whether, when visiting a couple at home, the INS officers would make an appointment, or just turn up unannounced. I could see arguments for both! (And yes, I have checked the INS website. I got a lot of technical information from there, but the site doesn't cover the procedures at all). Thanks in anticipation... Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:36:53 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > > LabRat: re being more confused than ever -- I'm sorry (and surprised) to hear> that authors are talking about refusing to do conversions anymore. It wasn't> my intent by bringing the problem up (nor was it Hazel's, I'm sure), though> it seems like these rumblings start every time a disagreement comes up.> Personally, it seems like an extreme reaction to me, and not a very > productive one, but everyone has to make that decision for themselves. > [I think, Kathy, that really the GEs and the authors are simply looking for a little guidance on this one. I am not at all surprised that they are confused. Many of them thought they knew where the boundary was, now with each new post to this thread everyone seems to have a different idea where it is. I don't think that it's too much for them to vocalise that confusion and expect some support in figuring it out. None of them *want* to give up doing conversions. But they don't want to offend anyone either. As I said in my earlier post, they aren't thinking about not converting any more because of any extreme kneejerk reaction but simply because they are no longer clear on where the line is drawn. It seems better to err on the side of caution and do nothing, than get it wrong. Your post here seems to be of the opinion that this is a 'Well, stuff them then.' reaction (rumblings/extreme reaction), so I'd like to clarify that this is certainly not the case from anyone I've had mail from on the subject. If you've garnered that from my earlier posts then I apologise for the confusion. Not at all. No one has expressed anger or pique re. this thread. Not to me anyway. Bewilderment is the word I would use for the reaction I've heard from fellow authors and GEs. Nor is anyone 'refusing' to do conversions. I said 'thinking of giving up' I think. Or words to that effect. Which is an entirely different thing. There are just quite a few people out there at the moment who are pretty lost on the entire subject. If I had a penny for every email I've had saying, 'Well, I *used* to know what the difference was, but now...'.... > To be honest, I don't see this as being as complicated as others seem to. > All I'm asking is that nfic authors be a bit more conservative when deciding > what can and can't stay in. Yes, that's vague, and obviously we all have > different standards about what's PG-13 vs R. But there have definitely been > cases of people submitting stories with lines/descriptions in there that > aren't even close, and it's getting more and more frequent. So now that the > subject has been raised, hopefully authors will give their choices some more > thought before they submit their stories. I don't think that's a lot to ask, > but it's clear that many authors are stymied. [Just the guidance we were looking for. Thank you. I'm sure that this new information will help clarify the subject enormously. It certainly does for me. :) As I read them, your earlier posts had seemed to be implying that these examples of extreme nfic were already on the Archive. Now that I understand you are talking about pre-drafts before the GEs get their hands on them ;) I understand where you're coming from a lot better.] > > To respond to your suggestion of a conversion FAQ -- very good idea! Any> volunteers to put it together? I think it would be a good resource to > have, though you're right about not linking it directly from the Archive > since it would have to contain nfic or nfic-like descriptions to be helpful. > [I have no objection to putting together such a FAQ. Perhaps in connection with another project I'm going to be involved with soon. ;) Watch this space.] > > Does that clarify things? Or just confuse the issue more? > [Clarifies them for me at least. Thank you. :)] LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:42:40 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Adam Labotka Subject: Recent writing challenge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok I woke up with an idea for the challenege recently sent out here and = just had to do it ;) so hear it is: The wind roared past his ears as he plummeted at breakneck speed toward = the pavement. Clark squeezed his eyes as he watched the pavement rush = up to meet him. Try as he might he couldn't do anything about his = decent. It's as if his powers had just vanished. As the pavement grew = near, his last thoughts were of Lois and how he never got to say = goodbye. Clark suddenly sat up, his head nearly hitting the ceiling. Glancing = around he found himself floating several feet about his and Lois' bed. = Calming himself, he gently lowered himself back to the bed and the form = of his sleeping wife. He hadn't had a nightmare about falling in a long time, not since after = he started getting really good at flying. 'No more swallowing bombs = right before bed' he thought to himself with a chuckle. He settled in = and went back to sleep. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Writing Challenge, Anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "That's it, Clark! From now on, I carry the keys when flying!" > > (My mom LOLed, but my sister said, "Huh?" Y'all get it, right?) LOL. Yes, I get it. Very cute. Is your sister married? If not, that would explain why she didn't get it. ~ Heidi ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:54:39 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Kerth Nominations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to say thanks to everyone who nominated my stories for the Kerth Awards. I'm incredibly flattered! Nan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:25:25 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower, 6/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is part 6 - hope you like it! CM ***** >From Part 5 Their lips were millimeters apart. There was a kiss coming - they both knew it. And they waited. ****** Part 6 Clark was absolutely breathless. Lois was right there, so close. All he had to do was move his head just a fraction and they'd be kissing. Lois had stopped laughing as she went under the water, not realizing that she was going to pull Clark right on top of her. As she pushed herself out of the water and pushed Clark away, she was intensely aware of his closeness. Of her desire to kiss him. She saw him move almost imperceptibly. Then his lips were on hers. It was a soft kiss, a gentle kiss. An amazing kiss, not for its passion, but for its lack of demands. A kiss for the sake of the kiss, not a kiss for the sake of pressuring for something more. Somehow, it was even better than Lois had thought it would be. It was even better than kissing Superman. *SUPERMAN!* Clark stopped as he heard Lois' quick intake of breath. He rolled off to the side, but was unwilling to move too far from her. He propped himself up on his side and just looked at her for a moment. "I'm sorry, Lois. I shouldn't have done that." Lois looked at him. His hair was wet and his glasses were skewed. "Clark? Can I ask you something?" "Sure, Lois. Anything." "Are you Superman?" Clark looked at her, somewhat stunned. He hadn't figured that she'd come right out and ask. "HEY! OUT OF THE FOUNTAIN!!" A police officer was walking by and saw what was happening. Clark helped Lois to her feet. He looked at the officer. "Officer Doze, we're, ah, sorry." Officer Doze, who had worked with Lois and Clark on several occasions, was one of the many, many people they knew who were a part of the Daily Planet pool on when they would get together. His date wasn't for two more weeks. But he didn't mind losing his ten dollars if it meant these two were finally together. "Lois. Clark. I didn't realize it was you two, but you still need to get out of the fountain. Otherwise, I'll have to write you up for a 795, kissing in a fountain without proper permits." Lois stepped out of the fountain, using Officer Doze's hand for support. "That's a law? Can you get a proper permit for kissing in a fountain?" "Sure, they're available at City Hall and the DMV. You just have to apply three days in advance." Clark smiled, at the law and at the dripping Lois. "Next time, we'll remember to go get that permit." Lois shot him a look. She wasn't sure what to make of this whole thing. "Who says there's going to be a next time?" Clark looked disappointed and Doze just laughed. "Well, you two kids better go get dried off." Doze looked at his watch. "It's time for my lunch break." Clark looked at Lois. "Well, our picnic lunch has probably been carried off by ants by now. Shall we go check?" "Sure. Let's go." Lois started to walk off. "Bye, Officer Doze. It was good to see you." Clark followed Lois. "You promised to give me my dollar back." "I lied." Lois shrugged it off. Clark rolled his eyes. They walked back to their blanket to find everything just as they left it. Clark pulled out an extra blanket. "I know it's not a towel, but it'll help you dry off." "What about you?" "Me? I'm fine. I don't get sick, remember?" Lois started. She realized that in all the time she had known Clark, he had never been sick. Superman didn't get sick. "Clark, you didn't answer my question." "What question was that Lois?" Clark tried to pretend he had forgotten. "Are you Superman?" ***** *VEG* Did you really think there would be closure, did you? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:50:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Vicki Krell Subject: Re: Superman's Shower, 6/? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carol, you're killing me!! I want more, and I want it NOW!! :) I'm loving this, keep it coming, please!!! Vicki ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:30:10 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Wendy: I don't know if this will help. My daughter married a South Africa national here in the USA. They had met in South Africa and he came here on a visitor's visa. After they married he had to get a green card to work. To my knowledge they were never visited at home but went to the immigration office to answer questions, show their marriage certificate, fill out forms etc...I think that unless the circumstances are suspicious or someone has reported an attempt at fraud, this would suffice. They have been married almost 6 years but he has not attempted naturalization because he has dual English and South African citizenship with ties to both places and doesn't want to give those up. There are certain advantages to having 3 different passports in the family when they travel. I don't know if there are different circumstances when becoming a citizen. However given the large numbers involved, I would guess that, again, unless there are strange circumstances it would just be a matter of paperwork. It also depends on the immigration officers involved. A few years ago a young responsible married family man was deported from this area because he had not registered for military selective service even though we no longer have the draft. He was not aware that he was required to do so as an alien. Other INS officers indicated that they thought that was a little extreme even though it was absolutely legal. Hope this helps a little. I can pursue it with my daughter if you would like to see if she has more info. :) Jude ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Richards" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:33 AM Subject: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation > This one seems a bit of a long shot to me, but on the other hand members of > this list have come up with some pretty obscure answers in the past! So here > goes: > > Does anyone know about INS procedures in respect of validating a marriage > for naturalisation purposes? In particular, I'd like to know whether, when > visiting a couple at home, the INS officers would make an appointment, or > just turn up unannounced. I could see arguments for both! > > (And yes, I have checked the INS website. I got a lot of technical > information from there, but the site doesn't cover the procedures at all). > > Thanks in anticipation... > > > Wendy > > -------------------------- > Wendy Richards > w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:34:10 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jude, thanks for that really helpful reply, which has given me one or two more ideas. Let's say that, in the circumstances I have in mind, there is every reason for the INS to believe that the marriage has taken place for the sole reason of helping an alien gain permanent residence. This is why the INS may want to visit the couple at home. So if anyone else knows anything about this, I'd love to hear your thoughts! Otherwise I'll make it up... Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:07:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Re: The 2001 Kerth Award Nominees! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010226112034.00aa3c30@actcom.co.il> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi FoLCS; So there I was at 12:35 am, looking at a two inch stack of messages from the last three or four days (nearly 200 of them) and I knew I was too tired to read the stack. So I took a glance through for specific items and came across the Kerth Nominations post from Erin. Now, I will always give a post from Erin priority, , (Hi Erin!) so I glanced at it. And there, in the new category was my name!!!!!! I nearly dropped all 200 messages! I just wanted to express my gratitude for the nomination. To be in such company is a total thrill:) I certainly did not expect it:) Thanks Erin and all the others for your hard work. No matter the outcome, it made my night, day, week.....:) Carolyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:17:44 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: Recent writing challenge In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Very cute one, Adam. :) Hazel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:24:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy: I Forgot to mention the film Green Card which deals with this situation in what I suppose is a factually based way. I have no real knowledge of how dramatically or comedically enhanced it is but it is a resource. Featuring Andy McDowell,it's several years old and readily available on videotape. As for making it up yourself, that's always more fun anyway. Am looking forward to reading it when you post it! :) Jude ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Richards" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation > Jude, thanks for that really helpful reply, which has given me one or two > more ideas. > > Let's say that, in the circumstances I have in mind, there is every reason > for the INS to believe that the marriage has taken place for the sole reason > of helping an alien gain permanent residence. This is why the INS may want > to visit the couple at home. > > So if anyone else knows anything about this, I'd love to hear your thoughts! > Otherwise I'll make it up... > > > Wendy > -------------------------- > Wendy Richards > w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:49:07 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Cross posting re a change in my e-mail server: no problem after all! Comments: To: LoisandClarkNAOS@egroups.com, deancainfans@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi FoLCs and Dean Fans and Friends: Apologies to anyone who gets this message more than once. I am cross-posting to most of the lists I am subscribed to. OK, it appears that there is no problem with lists subscriptions and my e-mail server. Our technical staff even went so far as to admit that the original message regarding the closing of the "gateway" was very poorly written.....:) Sorry for the annoyance and I am glad I didn't lose touch:) Thanks, Carolyn ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:16:45 -0600 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy A friend of mine is getting married to a girl from Viet Nam. He had to go to Viet Nam and had to have a coming out type of engagement with families etc... party. He had to apply for papers here, wait 6 months before above mentioned party. Then he had to wait for our counselate (sp) to approve it. (this is the stage he is in now). Once approved - she applies for exit paper in Viet Nam. Once she gets them, she comes here, and they have to marry within 90 days. Our counselate told him it would be better that they marry here. Don't know any more that that. merry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:35:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lesley Hilliard Subject: Re: Superman's Shower, 6/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been enjoying this little romp Carol. Hope it doesn't end too soon. Lesley in Brampton On ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:59:54 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/01 4:35:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: > Does anyone know about INS procedures in respect of validating a marriage > for naturalisation purposes? In particular, I'd like to know whether, when > visiting a couple at home, the INS officers would make an appointment, or > just turn up unannounced. I could see arguments for both! > I would imagine that the INS would merely require that the couple show a valid marriage certificate. I know that when my brother married a German citizen, they had to fill out a lot of forms at the American consulate in Berlin to get her resident alien visa. (green card) I don't think anyone ever visited them at all. If the marriage took place in the US, (they got married in Berlin) I would imagine that one would go to the nearest INS office and fill out reams of paperwork. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:08:06 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy, go watch the movie Green Card. I think they deal with the situation in that. But it's been so long since I saw the movie, I can't remember what happens. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:44:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Natascha Kortum Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi Wendy, Sorry I don't have much time since I am at work but I do know some of this stuff. ;) If a person comes to the US with the purpose of getting married, they can apply for a fiance(e) visa. This visa allows them to enter the US and stay for 3 months. However, the person has to get married within the 3 months, otherwise the visa expires and the person would have to leave the country. Have you ever seen the movie "Greencard?" In the movie, the married couple knew that the INS would send people to check on them. They wanted proof that they were actually living together etc. For one of my research papers I found out that the INS looks for phone bills and/or rents that are under both names. If hte newly married husband or wife applies for citizenship, there will be several follow-up interviews. As far as I know they are one on one intervies in the INS office. In the movie they tried to find out how much the couple actually knew about each other etc. Hope this helps at all. If you need more info I can dig out my old research. :) Natascha _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 17:20:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation Tasha, Ann, Merry, thanks for your comments! Lots of you have referred me to the film Green Card. I do know about that one, and have seen it - it's relevant in more ways than you know to this story! But it didn't altogether answer my question. But thanks to you all anyway. I think I now have enough to be able to make up something credible! Wendy ----------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 01:54:53 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Xylo Xenophon Subject: writing challenge: the last drop filled the barrell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ... "Ieeek ..." the eerie shreak of a creature facing inevitable death ruptured the night in metropolis with cruel certainty. This was it - again. The quite attractive woman tried to stay calm, but her mind raced at light speed and if she had been missing out on one thing in her young life then it was to find love. Not just any love, but true love, love so sweet and yet so strong - shared with that special, caring, gorgeous, not from this earth - makes your heart hurt racing - - knight on a black stallion, super man with blowing cape in the wind - just that special man that lets the butterflies romp in your stomach just as if you were dropping from a scyscraper. Unfortunately her last association reminded her of her situation and in a blink of an eye she was so full of angst as the pavement rushed towards her in a reckless speed that she was no longer able to maintain coherent thoughts and so her very last impressions as a living beeing were: "Oh no, my hairdo is falling apart ! Oh please, i bet my nails are going to break too... " "Six" Cat let out a sharp breath, "I feel shattered. totally demolished. That is soo depressing," she thought to herself. "But nobody is going to stop me. Not me, Cat Grant. I am an investigative reporter and if Lane says that dropping from a scyscraper just is part of the job - so be it" she said aloud stubbornly and turned once again to the more and more startled concierge of the famous Lexor. "Don't bother," she warned him, "by now i know the way up." and turned to the one elevator whose cabin was still waiting on the ground floor. However this man just had no tact - how dare he speak up: "But, Ma'm ! The..." She just had to retaliate him for him rising his hand and even trying to address her in an unduely manner so she added with a menacing fire in her eyes: "Yes, down also. And don't dare you ask !" She stormed into the elevator cabin and pressed the button for the penthouse, once again radiating self confidence with every breath she exhaled. "Luthor, you're mine ..." she thought with determination, but a sudden sound broke her trail of thoughts - a sound not quite unlike the breaking sound of a rope supporting an elevator cabin. On her way down she had the unique chance to experience zero-g for the first time in her life. She quite enjoyed those few seconds floating and wondered how it might be to... share that feeling - but unfortunately she lacked the super man for that kind of experience and so she could not help her bitternes as she said her famous last words while looking at her lipstick and all the other inhabitants of her purse floating cheerfully around her: "Ok Bernie, you were oh soo right. So what ?" "Five." Cat grumbled, "That's for the fifth time now. And i didn't got to like it - yet. Sure they say it hurts just a bit for the first time, but by now... I really wonder what Lois gets out of this..." Cat put herself together and opened the doors of the elevator cabin to the reception just to walk into the concierge who still had to finish his one liner: "... out of commision, ..." As if she had failed to uncover this fact by now. By all means, she was a true investigative reporter. Top notch, Daily Planet brand. How did this man dare to give here only facts she already knew ..." Cat ranted in her thoughts as she left for the stairs. ... "Three" "Don't dare you ask !", she snarled as the the concierge dared to rise an eyebrow in wonder. ... "Two" ... "One," Cat remembered talking to herself. "So this is the final countdown. Perhaps i should have better taken off for europe touring with that pop band, but no, i had to prove that i am an investigative reporter. Cat, you old tiger, just show your claws and let's get things right for this time - just once, ok ?" Once again she entered the Lexor, and this time she walked right up to the concierge and with her most cat like purring voice she exhaled: "I need to speak to Lex Luthor. Would you ask him to meet me in the lounge, would you, please ?" Oh how clever she was. Finally her deadly tiger instincts would prove to be effective. So unnoticeably subtle, she thought in pride about herself, she was so alluringly but yet absolutely innocently asking the proud mile high canary to join here down in the cat's lounge. The concierge looked at Cat's rather deranged self licking her lips like she was just about to swallow him as her claws - err - her fingernails slowly scratched the surface of the reception in anticipation and he could not help but think that somehow he was missing out on the other half of the conversation. "I am sorry", he had to tell her, "Mr. Luthor is in Gotham attending the annual conference of evil overlords," and with pride he continued: "and rumors are that he might even be honored for his life time achievements !" That was it. Finally, she, Cat Grant, world class investigative reporter had turned up the final, so long missing clue. Now Perry, Clark, Henderson, Mayson and all those others - even Lois ! - just had to believe her that were was something fishy about that philantropic tycoon. And it had been her, solely her to see through this mighty cloak. ... Cat entered the Daily Planet's newsroom, just like every day, confident and full of pride, but this time it was also all so special as she relished every single breath of success she took. And the headline on the frontpage: "The 8th drop caught Luthor, by Cat Grant" had been hers, hers alone. Finally, Lois Lane walked up to her, waving the newest edition of the planet in front of her and congratulating Cat with honest admiration to her first scoop. "Cat, What a story, " she said, "You know, i might really like the idea of tough competetion for the kerths this year..." "So Lois, with you and me both being top notch investigative reporters, you might answer me one thing: What do you get from dropping from a scyscraper ?" Lois's answer was just one sentence: "I get to fly in superman's arms - and that's just so... " hear voice betrayed her to transport the intensity of such an exquisite experience. Now, that aspect of the man in tights had never before occured to her. With her own countdown down to one she might as well give it a try - the next time around. .... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:04:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) On Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:36:53 -0000, LabRat wrote: >Your post here seems to be of the opinion that this is a 'Well, stuff them >then.' reaction (rumblings/extreme reaction), so I'd like to clarify that >this is certainly not the case from anyone I've had mail from on the >subject. If you've garnered that from my earlier posts then I apologise for >the confusion. Not at all. No one has expressed anger or pique re. this >thread. Not to me anyway. Good to know ... after your message and Anne's, I got the impression there was definitely something more going on than what I've seen expressed here on this list. Reading the two posts within a few minutes of each other must have got my mind working in that direction, so I'm glad to hear it was just a misunderstanding. :) Thanks for clarifying. >[Just the guidance we were looking for. Thank you. I'm sure that this new >information will help clarify the subject enormously. It certainly does for >me. :) As I read them, your earlier posts had seemed to be implying that >these examples of extreme nfic were already on the Archive. Now that I >understand you are talking about pre-drafts before the GEs get their hands >on them ;) I understand where you're coming from a lot better.] Or drafts that GEs get, but don't make it onto the Archive. As I said, I don't read the full stories before assigning them; I just get the emails from the GEs that quote passages that have me leaping for the keyboard. But I am glad that seems to help ... I know it's not specific enough (but maybe an FAQ in the future will be!), but clarification is always desireable. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:29:35 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit or -- what about making a claim as a political refugee? I know this isn't what you were looking for, Wendy, but it just crossed my mind and I wondered if it might be useful. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:36:02 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol wrote: > or -- what about making a claim as a political refugee? I know this isn't > what you were looking for, Wendy, but it just crossed my mind and I wondered > if it might be useful. Now *that's* a very interesting suggestion, Carol! I hadn't thought of that as an option at all, but it does give me a rather intriguing possibility for the story in question - as you might well have guessed! Wendy (hurrying to make more notes on the story file...) -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:10:33 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Deleting scenes (converting nfic to gfic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > Good to know ... after your message and Anne's, I got the impression there > was definitely something more going on than what I've seen expressed here on this list. Reading the two posts within a few minutes of each other must > have got my mind working in that direction, so I'm glad to hear it was just a > misunderstanding. :) Thanks for clarifying. > Nope. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And a list post a list post. ;) These two were entirely independent. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:57:47 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: That earthbound anti-gravity room idea... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A week or two ago a writer asked if there were such thing as an earthbound antigravity room. Today I came across the following article on a UFO list I'm on. List members chimed in and determined it to be a hoax (the newspaper denied running the story and Los Alamos representatives denied any such invention), but it might be true in the world of Metropolis.... Debby, huitziln@cais.net (thru 03/31/01) who notes that "Sangria de cristo" (sweet red wine of Christ) mountains noted in paragraph 4 below should be "Sangre de Cristo" (blood of Christ)... A real article in such a well known paper would get that right. **** Source: The Sacramento Bee January 11, 2001 LOS ALAMOS, NM - Scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory are celebrating a major scientific breakthrough amongst themselves today. The $1.5 billion dollar "Zero G Room" was demonstrated to specially invited guests to the 7,000-feet-high mountain plateau nuclear weapons research laboratory, 45 miles Northwest of Santa Fe. "Los Alamos is a multidisciplined research facility" said laboratory Director John Browne. "Sure, we design our nation's nuclear weapons here as does Lawrence Livermore Lab", Browne said. "But we also design non-lethal weapons, do medical research such as finding a cure for AIDS and cancers of various types. We're dedicated to finding and improving alternative methods of energy production, and helping private industry to be more productive. We also work very closely with NASA in developing space technology, which is the reason for this demonstration today." Los Alamos was built in the Sangria de cristo mountains in 1943 by the Manhattan Project, a U.S. crash program to develop an atomic bomb to end World War II. It was once home to the "Los Alamos Boys School" before the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers bought the land and began to build the laboratory under top secret conditions. Roads were built, housing was constructed, laboratory buildings erected and filled with the "cream of the crop" in nuclear physics for that time: Hans Bethe, Richard Feynman, Neils Bohr, Edward Teller (who would later go on to invent the "super" or H-bomb with Stan Ulam), Luis Alvarez, James Tuck to name a few. The facility was under the direction of Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer who along with Army General Leslie R. "Dick" Groves rode herd over the scientists, engineers and technicians to produce three bombs in 1945: "The Gadget" was an implosion-plutonium test device detonated on July 16, 1945 at "Trinity Site", a remote portion of what today is the vast White Sands Proving Grounds, 300 miles from Los Alamos; "Little Boy" was a "gun method" uranium bomb that was dropped over Hiroshima Japan on August 6, 1945; "Fat Man" was a weaponized version of "The Gadget" and was detonated over Nagasaki Japan on August 9, 1945, effectively bringing the war in the Pacific to a conclusion. "Today we go beyond the technical feat performed back in the laboratory's early days. In those early years we learned how nature bonds atoms together and how to release that binding energy to produce enormous amounts of useful power to help mankind and also to destroy mankind," Browne said. "Ever since the Buck Rogers days mankind has sought to overcome the electomagnetic force known as gravity. Until now, this zero gravity state was only experienced in space and for short times in special aircraft that made parabolic dives from high altitudes. Today I am proud to announce the "Zero G Room" here at Los Alamos." "The "Zero G Room" is still a classified project and I can only comment on some of the achievements the room has made. First, the square footage is well under 300 feet but can produce antigravity or negative gravity as we call it, with enough force to enable a 250 pound object to levitate. The room has not yet been tested with humans." "I can only say that we're using some really leading edge science to do this. Magnetic forces are being used in the Zero G Room that 10 years ago would have been thought impossible to produce. The size of the magnetic equipment is still too large to fit in a space vehicle, but we're confident that the size should be down to a manageable size within 2 to 3 years. We'll also need to miniatureize the magnetic super-cooling system", Browne said. "With such technologies come added discoveries. Along the research path to the "Zero G Room" our scientists confimed the existence of a new element that can produce energy a million times over current special nuclear materials. What I am referring to is the "Buck Rogers" part, that being a Matter Anti-Matter reaction." It has been rumored that President Elect George W. Bush has asked Los Alamos to study the new element for use in military weapons. Neither Browne or the Bush Administration would comment on that subject. Former Los Alamos researcher Robert Lazar says he feels that a load has been lifted from his shoulders. Lazar claims to have witnessed "reverse engineering" research of captured alien space vehicles commonly reported as "UFO" or "flying saucers." During those claims Lazar mentioned a new element discovery and "matter-anti-matter" power sources. "The technology behind the "Zero G Room" on the Hill (Los Alamos) is based in part on those gravity amplifiers we worked on in Nevada. The new element is produced by an alien technology that is so classified that not even the President of the United States knows much about it", Lazar said during an interview last week. Lazar added, "What worries me is now that they (Los Alamos) know how to tap this energy source, how long will it be before they turn in into another weapon of mass destruction? That weapon, if produced, would certainly be capable of rendering our planet to a burned out cinder in a microsecond. And that really bothers me." No public demonstration of the "Zero G Room" is expected for several years, but Congress is viewing the spending of $1.5 billion dollars from the "black budget" fund with concerned eyes. One Senator who requested to be annonymous stated, "We've reduced our military spending, closed down military bases, our men and women in uniform are horribly underpaid, and here some crackpot scientists are squandering away a billion and a half dollars on an amusement park ride. Aside from satisfing their own intellectual curiosity, what in heaven's name will we use it for?" A General Accounting Office audit is expected. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:14:12 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/28/01 5:38:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: > what about making a claim as a political refugee? > Now *that's* a very interesting suggestion, Carol! I hadn't thought of that > as an option at all, but it does give me a rather intriguing possibility for > the story in question - as you might well have guessed! > The only problem with that option is that to claim to be a political refugee, you have to be from a country that the US government has declared is a country with political refugees. This is why people from Haiti for a very long time couldn't get refugee status. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:44:03 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann wrote: <> Who in the American system has the power to do that? I'm assuming it would be a federal responsibility, but does it lie with Congress or could the President use his power of executive order to make such a declaration? Josh Bartlett certainly would. I'm assuming here that a city's declaration that an outsider is an 'honorary citizen' wouldn't have much legal standing. But, what would happen if it did, and then the federal government disputed it, leading, of course to a court challenge? Are municipal governments the constitutional creatures of the state governments as they are of our Canadian provinces? Could that then lead to a federal vs states' rights conflict in court? Then wouldn't the current American Supreme Court likely rule in favour of states rights? ) I know I've wandered some distance from Wendy's story-line :), unless, of course she totally changes her story-line into A West Wing crosssover. But Ann did get me thinking. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: writing challenge: the last drop filled the barrell MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lol, this was quite funny, I never even thought of Cat as a character....guess that was cause of her leaving the show after the first season like she did. Marnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xylo Xenophon" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:54 PM Subject: writing challenge: the last drop filled the barrell > ... > > "Ieeek ..." the eerie shreak of a creature facing > inevitable death ruptured the night in metropolis > with cruel certainty. This was it - again. > > The quite attractive woman tried to stay calm, but her > mind raced at light speed and if she had been > missing out on one thing in her young life then it was > to find love. Not just any love, but true love, love so sweet > and yet so strong - shared with that special, caring, gorgeous, > not from this earth - makes your heart hurt racing - > - knight on a black stallion, super man with blowing > cape in the wind - just that special man that lets the > butterflies romp in your stomach just as if you were > dropping from a scyscraper. > > Unfortunately her last association reminded her of her situation > and in a blink of an eye she was so full of angst as the > pavement rushed towards her in a reckless speed > that she was no longer able to maintain coherent > thoughts and so her very last impressions as a living > beeing were: "Oh no, my hairdo is falling apart ! > Oh please, i bet my nails are going to break too... " > > > > "Six" Cat let out a sharp breath, "I feel shattered. > totally demolished. That is soo depressing," she > thought to herself. > > "But nobody is going to stop me. Not me, Cat Grant. > I am an investigative reporter and if Lane says that > dropping from a scyscraper just is part of the job - so be it" > she said aloud stubbornly and turned once > again to the more and more startled concierge of > the famous Lexor. > > "Don't bother," she warned him, "by now i know the > way up." and turned to the one elevator whose cabin > was still waiting on the ground floor. > > However this man just had no tact - how dare he > speak up: "But, Ma'm ! The..." > > She just had to retaliate him for him rising his hand > and even trying to address her in an unduely manner > so she added with a menacing fire in her eyes: > "Yes, down also. And don't dare you ask !" > > She stormed into the elevator cabin and pressed > the button for the penthouse, once again radiating > self confidence with every breath she exhaled. > "Luthor, you're mine ..." she thought with determination, > but a sudden sound broke her trail of thoughts - > a sound not quite unlike the breaking sound of a rope > supporting an elevator cabin. > > On her way down she had the unique chance to > experience zero-g for the first time in her life. > She quite enjoyed those few seconds floating and > wondered how it might be to... share that feeling - > but unfortunately she lacked the super man for > that kind of experience and so she could not > help her bitternes as she said her famous last > words while looking at her lipstick and all the other > inhabitants of her purse floating cheerfully around her: > "Ok Bernie, you were oh soo right. So what ?" > > > > "Five." Cat grumbled, "That's for the fifth time now. > And i didn't got to like it - yet. Sure they say it > hurts just a bit for the first time, but by now... > I really wonder what Lois gets out of this..." > > Cat put herself together and opened the doors > of the elevator cabin to the reception just to > walk into the concierge who still had to > finish his one liner: > "... out of commision, ..." > > As if she had failed to uncover this fact by now. > By all means, she was a true investigative reporter. > Top notch, Daily Planet brand. How did this man > dare to give here only facts she already knew ..." > Cat ranted in her thoughts as she left for the stairs. > ... > > > > "Three" > > "Don't dare you ask !", she snarled as the the > concierge dared to rise an eyebrow in wonder. > > ... > > > "Two" > ... > > > > "One," Cat remembered talking to herself. > "So this is the final countdown. Perhaps i should > have better taken off for europe touring with that > pop band, but no, i had to prove that i am an > investigative reporter. Cat, you old tiger, just > show your claws and let's get things right for this > time - just once, ok ?" > > Once again she entered the Lexor, and this time she > walked right up to the concierge and with her most > cat like purring voice she exhaled: > "I need to speak to Lex Luthor. Would you > ask him to meet me in the lounge, would you, please ?" > > Oh how clever she was. Finally her deadly tiger > instincts would prove to be effective. So unnoticeably > subtle, she thought in pride about herself, she was so > alluringly but yet absolutely innocently asking the > proud mile high canary to join here down in the > cat's lounge. > > The concierge looked at Cat's rather deranged > self licking her lips like she was just about to > swallow him as her claws - err - her fingernails > slowly scratched the surface of the reception > in anticipation and he could not help but think > that somehow he was missing out on the other > half of the conversation. > > "I am sorry", he had to tell her, "Mr. Luthor > is in Gotham attending the annual conference > of evil overlords," and with pride he continued: > "and rumors are that he might even be honored > for his life time achievements !" > > That was it. Finally, she, Cat Grant, world class > investigative reporter had turned up the final, so > long missing clue. Now Perry, Clark, Henderson, > Mayson and all those others - even Lois ! - just > had to believe her that were was something fishy > about that philantropic tycoon. And it had been her, > solely her to see through this mighty cloak. > > ... > > Cat entered the Daily Planet's newsroom, just like every > day, confident and full of pride, but this time it was also > all so special as she relished every single breath of > success she took. And the headline on the frontpage: > "The 8th drop caught Luthor, by Cat Grant" > had been hers, hers alone. > > Finally, Lois Lane walked up to her, > waving the newest edition of the planet in front of > her and congratulating Cat with honest admiration > to her first scoop. "Cat, What a story, " she said, > "You know, i might really like the idea of tough > competetion for the kerths this year..." > > "So Lois, with you and me both being top notch > investigative reporters, you might answer me one > thing: What do you get from dropping from a scyscraper ?" > > Lois's answer was just one sentence: > "I get to fly in superman's arms - and that's just so... " > hear voice betrayed her to transport the intensity > of such an exquisite experience. > > Now, that aspect of the man in tights had never > before occured to her. With her own countdown > down to one she might as well give it a try - the next > time around. > > .... > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:11:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Liz S Subject: Re: Superman's Shower, 6/? Hi, Carol. Liked this part, I enjoyed how the officer was in on the Planet pool on when Lois and Clark would finally get together! LOL! Looking forward to the next part! Will Clark give Lois the answer she wants? Liz S. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:29:30 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/28/2001 9:44:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ccmalo@AOL.COM writes: << I'm assuming here that a city's declaration that an outsider is an 'honorary citizen' wouldn't have much legal standing. But, what would happen if it did, and then the federal government disputed it, leading, of course to a court challenge? Are municipal governments the constitutional creatures of the state governments as they are of our Canadian provinces? >> Oh, fun questions! "honorary" has no legal standing. It's more a gesture of love and appreciation--like being give the 'keys' to a city. Naturally, cities aren't locked up behind walls that you actually have keys to... The constitution of the U.S. does the greatest part of the job of defining the responsibilities and rights of the federal and state governments. Much of the rest has no doubt been set by legal precedents. States have rights and responsibilites that are defined that city and local municipalities cannot legislate. For example, only a state government can legislate on issues that impact on interstate commerce; county governments cannot do that. (That one I know first hand from back when Suffolk County, Long Island was trying to ban certain types of plastic packaging. The opponents kept saying that Perdue will still be allowed to sell its chicken in styrofoam trays. The answer was that since they were not packaged inside the county, the county could not legislate anything regarding them.) I'm sure some of our lawyers on this list will answer this more thoroughly and more cogently. ;) --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:27:51 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marilyn Puett Subject: Re: That earthbound anti-gravity room idea... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://www.escribe.com/science/keelynet/m9685.html Looks like this might be a hoax. >From: Debby >Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" > >To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU >Subject: That earthbound anti-gravity room idea... >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:57:47 -0700 > >A week or two ago a writer asked if there were such thing as an earthbound >antigravity room. Today I came across the following article on a UFO list >I'm >on. List members chimed in and determined it to be a hoax (the newspaper >denied >running the story and Los Alamos representatives denied any such >invention), >but it might be true in the world of Metropolis.... > >Debby, huitziln@cais.net (thru 03/31/01) >who notes that "Sangria de cristo" (sweet red wine of Christ) mountains >noted >in paragraph 4 below should be "Sangre de Cristo" (blood of Christ)... A >real >article in such a well known paper would get that right. > > **** > >Source: The Sacramento Bee >January 11, 2001 > >LOS ALAMOS, NM - Scientists at Los Alamos National Laboratory are >celebrating a major scientific breakthrough amongst themselves today. > >The $1.5 billion dollar "Zero G Room" was demonstrated to specially invited >guests to the 7,000-feet-high mountain plateau nuclear weapons research >laboratory, 45 miles Northwest of Santa Fe. > >"Los Alamos is a multidisciplined research facility" said laboratory >Director John Browne. "Sure, we design our nation's nuclear weapons here as >does Lawrence Livermore Lab", Browne said. "But we also design non-lethal >weapons, do medical research such as finding a cure for AIDS and cancers of >various types. We're dedicated to finding and improving alternative methods >of energy production, and helping private industry to be more productive. >We >also work very closely with NASA in developing space technology, which is >the reason for this demonstration today." > >Los Alamos was built in the Sangria de cristo mountains in 1943 by the >Manhattan Project, a U.S. crash program to develop an atomic bomb to end >World War II. > >It was once home to the "Los Alamos Boys School" before the U.S. Army Corps >of Engineers bought the land and began to build the laboratory under top >secret conditions. > >Roads were built, housing was constructed, laboratory buildings erected and >filled with the "cream of the crop" in nuclear physics for that time: Hans >Bethe, Richard Feynman, Neils Bohr, Edward Teller (who would later go on to >invent the "super" or H-bomb with Stan Ulam), Luis Alvarez, James Tuck to >name a few. > >The facility was under the direction of Dr. J. Robert Oppenheimer who along >with Army General Leslie R. "Dick" Groves rode herd over the scientists, >engineers and technicians to produce three bombs in 1945: "The Gadget" was >an implosion-plutonium test device detonated on July 16, 1945 at "Trinity >Site", a remote portion of what today is the vast White Sands Proving >Grounds, 300 miles from Los Alamos; "Little Boy" was a "gun method" uranium >bomb that was dropped over Hiroshima Japan on August 6, 1945; "Fat Man" was >a weaponized version of "The Gadget" and was detonated over Nagasaki Japan >on August 9, 1945, effectively bringing the war in the Pacific to a >conclusion. > >"Today we go beyond the technical feat performed back in the laboratory's >early days. In those early years we learned how nature bonds atoms together >and how to release that binding energy to produce enormous amounts of >useful >power to help mankind and also to destroy mankind," Browne said. > >"Ever since the Buck Rogers days mankind has sought to overcome the >electomagnetic force known as gravity. Until now, this zero gravity state >was only experienced in space and for short times in special aircraft that >made parabolic dives from high altitudes. Today I am proud to announce the >"Zero G Room" here at Los Alamos." > >"The "Zero G Room" is still a classified project and I can only comment on >some of the achievements the room has made. First, the square footage is >well under 300 feet but can produce antigravity or negative gravity as we >call it, with enough force to enable a 250 pound object to levitate. The >room has not yet been tested with humans." > >"I can only say that we're using some really leading edge science to do >this. Magnetic forces are being used in the Zero G Room that 10 years ago >would have been thought impossible to produce. The size of the magnetic >equipment is still too large to fit in a space vehicle, but we're confident >that the size should be down to a manageable size within 2 to 3 years. >We'll >also need to miniatureize the magnetic super-cooling system", Browne said. > >"With such technologies come added discoveries. Along the research path to >the "Zero G Room" our scientists confimed the existence of a new element >that can produce energy a million times over current special nuclear >materials. What I am referring to is the "Buck Rogers" part, that being a >Matter Anti-Matter reaction." > >It has been rumored that President Elect George W. Bush has asked Los >Alamos >to study the new element for use in military weapons. Neither Browne or the >Bush Administration would comment on that subject. Former Los Alamos >researcher Robert Lazar says he feels that a load has been lifted from his >shoulders. Lazar claims to have witnessed "reverse engineering" research of >captured alien space vehicles commonly reported as "UFO" or "flying >saucers." During those claims Lazar mentioned a new element discovery and >"matter-anti-matter" power sources. > >"The technology behind the "Zero G Room" on the Hill (Los Alamos) is based >in part on those gravity amplifiers we worked on in Nevada. The new element >is produced by an alien technology that is so classified that not even the >President of the United States knows much about it", Lazar said during an >interview last week. > >Lazar added, "What worries me is now that they (Los Alamos) know how to tap >this energy source, how long will it be before they turn in into another >weapon of mass destruction? That weapon, if produced, would certainly be >capable of rendering our planet to a burned out cinder in a microsecond. >And >that really bothers me." > >No public demonstration of the "Zero G Room" is expected for several years, >but Congress is viewing the spending of $1.5 billion dollars from the >"black >budget" fund with concerned eyes. One Senator who requested to be >annonymous >stated, "We've reduced our military spending, closed down military bases, >our men and women in uniform are horribly underpaid, and here some crackpot >scientists are squandering away a billion and a half dollars on an >amusement >park ride. Aside from satisfing their own intellectual curiosity, what in >heaven's name will we use it for?" > >A General Accounting Office audit is expected. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:30:41 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay here is the finale from Superman's Shower. HOpe it works for you! CM ***** >From part 6 "Clark, you didn't answer my question." "What question was that Lois?" Clark tried to pretend he had forgotten. "Are you Superman?" ***** Part 7 Clark sat down on the blanket next to the picnic basket. His clothes were still soaking wet and while he knew he wouldn't get sick, he was kind of uncomfortable. "What makes you think I'm Superman?" "Just answer the question." Lois wrapped the other blanket around herself after attempting to use it to dry off. She sat down next to Clark. Clark stared at the ground in front of him. "I didn't know how to tell you. I wanted to, really I did, but I just didn't know how." "So you are Superman?" Lois asked softly. "Yes." Clark answered simply. "Then dry me off real quick, would you?" Lois stood up and dropped the blanket from around her wet clothes. Clark pulled down his glasses and stared at her intently. Seconds later, she sat back down next to him, dry as a bone. "Are you mad at me, Lois?" "I don't know. Maybe. I should be. But I don't know if I am. I made some lists this morning." "I figured you would. Let's see. There was the Why Clark isn't Superman list." "Yes." "And you didn't even write anything down, did you? The answers were too obvious." "Right." "And there was the Why Clark is Superman, but I don't really believe it list." "Yes." "Let's see some things that would be on that list - They both have muscles, but Superman is stronger." Lois had the good grace to blush some. "Yes." "What else? We both know where to get great food?" "Yes." "I can always get a hold of Superman on a moments notice?" "Doesn't it bother you talking about yourself in the third person?" Clark shrugged. "It used to, but I've kind of gotten used to it. Sometimes it bothers me, especially around you. And then you made a list of reasons why, if I really was Superman, and you weren't sure that you actually believed it, why I hadn't told you." "Yes." "And on that list you called me things like dumb, and a geek, and a sleazeball." "I didn't call you a sleazeball." "You didn't?" Clark was incredulous. "No. I called you a bozo brain." Clark laughed. "That works better, I guess. Are you okay with this?" "Why didn't you tell me, Clark? None of the reasons I came up with were really all that great." Clark turned to face her and took her hands. "When I first met you, I knew you were special and I knew that I wanted to get to know you better, but you wouldn't give me the time of day. You thought I was some hack from Nowheresville and you hated Perry for saddling you with me." "I'm sorry, Clark." "It's okay, Lois. It's behind us. I had just created Superman, with the help of my parents, and I didn't know if it was going to work. You were this fiery, all business, no nonsense reporter who would do anything for the story. I didn't really know if I could trust you not to write the story. Once I got to know you and you got to know me, there just wasn't really a good way to tell you without you getting really mad at me for keeping it a secret. So, I never told you." "That's why Superman didn't believe me when I told him I would love him even if he didn't have superpowers." Lois stated without any trace of emotion in her voice. "Do you understand why? You had just told me that there was no way that you could be in love with me." "And you were Superman without the Superpowers." "Right." "So what do we do now? Do you trust me now?" "Lois, of course I trust you now. I have trusted you for a long, long time. I just didn't know how to tell you." "Then why did you tell me that you really don't love me? That you just said that to get me to not marry Luthor?" "What?" "Clark, you told me you loved me. And then you took it back. Why? We both know that you are in love with me." Clark sighed. "Lois, I have loved you since the moment you walked into Perry's office during my interview. I just knew that you didn't feel that way about me, and I didn't want you to pull away from me because you didn't feel the same way about me." "Clark, tell me again." "Lois, I'm Superman." "No. Tell me you love me," Lois said with a smile. Clark looked deep into her eyes, his eyes full of love and hope. "I love you, Lois. I always have and I always will. I can't imagine my life without you. Someday, I want to ask you to spend the rest of your life with me. I want to give you all of me, both sides of me, and I want you to love me back." "I do, Clark." "You do what?" "I love you, Clark. Not Superman. Clark. I bet you would say something like, 'Clark is who I am, Superman is what I can do', right?" Clark smiled. "That's how I justify it. Are you sure, Lois? You love me? All of me?" "When you kissed me in the fountain, you know what I thought?" "'I wonder if I'm kissing Superman?'" "No. I thought 'this is even better than kissing Superman'. You know why?" "No." "Superman is a great friend and nice to have around if there are terrorists and nuclear weapons involved, but I never really knew him. You are my best friend, the only person who really understands me, who is always there for me. That's why it was better. You know me and I know you and that is why..." Lois leaned across their clasped hands and kissed him gently on the lips. "...I love YOU, not Superman. But you know what?" Clark was still a little stunned. "What?" "I get the best of both worlds." "How do you figure?" "Not only am I someday going to marry - I said someday - my best friend, every woman's dream man, Clark Kent, but I get to marry every woman's fantasy, Superman. And I love them both." "Do you really mean that?" Lois didn't respond. She just moved to sit on his crossed legs and kissed him again. Long minutes later, Clark mumbled into her lips, "I guess you do." Lois smiled and answered back softly, "Do you think we need a permit for this?" "Who cares?" And he kissed her again. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:46:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carol ~ What timing! I'm on my way out the door and will have to wait til I get home to read this. Booooo! ~ Heidi mailto:President@ImpressionsWebPageDesign.com/ Impressions Web Page Design http://www.ImpressionsWebPageDesign.com/ ...make an Impression ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol L Moncado" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:30 AM Subject: Superman's Shower 7/7 > Okay here is the finale from Superman's Shower. HOpe it works for you! > > CM > > ***** > >From part 6 > > "Clark, you didn't answer my question." > > "What question was that Lois?" Clark tried to pretend he had forgotten. > > "Are you Superman?" > > ***** > Part 7 > > Clark sat down on the blanket next to the picnic basket. His clothes > were still soaking wet and while he knew he wouldn't get sick, he was > kind of uncomfortable. "What makes you think I'm Superman?" > > "Just answer the question." Lois wrapped the other blanket around > herself after attempting to use it to dry off. She sat down next to > Clark. > > Clark stared at the ground in front of him. "I didn't know how to tell > you. I wanted to, really I did, but I just didn't know how." > > "So you are Superman?" Lois asked softly. > > "Yes." Clark answered simply. > > "Then dry me off real quick, would you?" Lois stood up and dropped the > blanket from around her wet clothes. > > Clark pulled down his glasses and stared at her intently. Seconds later, > she sat back down next to him, dry as a bone. > > "Are you mad at me, Lois?" > > "I don't know. Maybe. I should be. But I don't know if I am. I made > some lists this morning." > > "I figured you would. Let's see. There was the Why Clark isn't Superman > list." > > "Yes." > > "And you didn't even write anything down, did you? The answers were too > obvious." > > "Right." > > "And there was the Why Clark is Superman, but I don't really believe it > list." > > "Yes." > > "Let's see some things that would be on that list - They both have > muscles, but Superman is stronger." > > Lois had the good grace to blush some. "Yes." > > "What else? We both know where to get great food?" > > "Yes." > > "I can always get a hold of Superman on a moments notice?" > > "Doesn't it bother you talking about yourself in the third person?" > > Clark shrugged. "It used to, but I've kind of gotten used to it. > Sometimes it bothers me, especially around you. And then you made a list > of reasons why, if I really was Superman, and you weren't sure that you > actually believed it, why I hadn't told you." > > "Yes." > > "And on that list you called me things like dumb, and a geek, and a > sleazeball." > > "I didn't call you a sleazeball." > > "You didn't?" Clark was incredulous. > > "No. I called you a bozo brain." > > Clark laughed. "That works better, I guess. Are you okay with this?" > > "Why didn't you tell me, Clark? None of the reasons I came up with were > really all that great." > > Clark turned to face her and took her hands. "When I first met you, I > knew you were special and I knew that I wanted to get to know you better, > but you wouldn't give me the time of day. You thought I was some hack > from Nowheresville and you hated Perry for saddling you with me." > > "I'm sorry, Clark." > > "It's okay, Lois. It's behind us. I had just created Superman, with the > help of my parents, and I didn't know if it was going to work. You were > this fiery, all business, no nonsense reporter who would do anything for > the story. I didn't really know if I could trust you not to write the > story. Once I got to know you and you got to know me, there just wasn't > really a good way to tell you without you getting really mad at me for > keeping it a secret. So, I never told you." > > "That's why Superman didn't believe me when I told him I would love him > even if he didn't have superpowers." Lois stated without any trace of > emotion in her voice. > > "Do you understand why? You had just told me that there was no way that > you could be in love with me." > > "And you were Superman without the Superpowers." > > "Right." > > "So what do we do now? Do you trust me now?" > > "Lois, of course I trust you now. I have trusted you for a long, long > time. I just didn't know how to tell you." > > "Then why did you tell me that you really don't love me? That you just > said that to get me to not marry Luthor?" > > "What?" > > "Clark, you told me you loved me. And then you took it back. Why? We > both know that you are in love with me." > > Clark sighed. "Lois, I have loved you since the moment you walked into > Perry's office during my interview. I just knew that you didn't feel > that way about me, and I didn't want you to pull away from me because you > didn't feel the same way about me." > > "Clark, tell me again." > > "Lois, I'm Superman." > > "No. Tell me you love me," Lois said with a smile. > > Clark looked deep into her eyes, his eyes full of love and hope. "I love > you, Lois. I always have and I always will. I can't imagine my life > without you. Someday, I want to ask you to spend the rest of your life > with me. I want to give you all of me, both sides of me, and I want you > to love me back." > > "I do, Clark." > > "You do what?" > > "I love you, Clark. Not Superman. Clark. I bet you would say something > like, 'Clark is who I am, Superman is what I can do', right?" > > Clark smiled. "That's how I justify it. Are you sure, Lois? You love > me? All of me?" > > "When you kissed me in the fountain, you know what I thought?" > > "'I wonder if I'm kissing Superman?'" > > "No. I thought 'this is even better than kissing Superman'. You know > why?" > > "No." > > "Superman is a great friend and nice to have around if there are > terrorists and nuclear weapons involved, but I never really knew him. > You are my best friend, the only person who really understands me, who is > always there for me. That's why it was better. You know me and I know > you and that is why..." Lois leaned across their clasped hands and kissed > him gently on the lips. "...I love YOU, not Superman. But you know > what?" > > Clark was still a little stunned. "What?" > > "I get the best of both worlds." > > "How do you figure?" > > "Not only am I someday going to marry - I said someday - my best friend, > every woman's dream man, Clark Kent, but I get to marry every woman's > fantasy, Superman. And I love them both." > > "Do you really mean that?" > > Lois didn't respond. She just moved to sit on his crossed legs and > kissed him again. > > Long minutes later, Clark mumbled into her lips, "I guess you do." > > Lois smiled and answered back softly, "Do you think we need a permit for > this?" > > "Who cares?" And he kissed her again. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:37:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Jury, Karen E." Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carol, this story has had me so entertained!! It's midterms week here at my school and I totally needed this for stress relief. Thanks so much for sharing. Karen > ---------- > From: Carol L Moncado[SMTP:cmoncado@JUNO.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:30 AM > To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU > Subject: Superman's Shower 7/7 > > Okay here is the finale from Superman's Shower. HOpe it works for you! > > CM > > ***** > From part 6 > > "Clark, you didn't answer my question." > > "What question was that Lois?" Clark tried to pretend he had forgotten. > > "Are you Superman?" > > ***** > Part 7 > > Clark sat down on the blanket next to the picnic basket. His clothes > were still soaking wet and while he knew he wouldn't get sick, he was > kind of uncomfortable. "What makes you think I'm Superman?" > > "Just answer the question." Lois wrapped the other blanket around > herself after attempting to use it to dry off. She sat down next to > Clark. > > Clark stared at the ground in front of him. "I didn't know how to tell > you. I wanted to, really I did, but I just didn't know how." > > "So you are Superman?" Lois asked softly. > > "Yes." Clark answered simply. > > "Then dry me off real quick, would you?" Lois stood up and dropped the > blanket from around her wet clothes. > > Clark pulled down his glasses and stared at her intently. Seconds later, > she sat back down next to him, dry as a bone. > > "Are you mad at me, Lois?" > > "I don't know. Maybe. I should be. But I don't know if I am. I made > some lists this morning." > > "I figured you would. Let's see. There was the Why Clark isn't Superman > list." > > "Yes." > > "And you didn't even write anything down, did you? The answers were too > obvious." > > "Right." > > "And there was the Why Clark is Superman, but I don't really believe it > list." > > "Yes." > > "Let's see some things that would be on that list - They both have > muscles, but Superman is stronger." > > Lois had the good grace to blush some. "Yes." > > "What else? We both know where to get great food?" > > "Yes." > > "I can always get a hold of Superman on a moments notice?" > > "Doesn't it bother you talking about yourself in the third person?" > > Clark shrugged. "It used to, but I've kind of gotten used to it. > Sometimes it bothers me, especially around you. And then you made a list > of reasons why, if I really was Superman, and you weren't sure that you > actually believed it, why I hadn't told you." > > "Yes." > > "And on that list you called me things like dumb, and a geek, and a > sleazeball." > > "I didn't call you a sleazeball." > > "You didn't?" Clark was incredulous. > > "No. I called you a bozo brain." > > Clark laughed. "That works better, I guess. Are you okay with this?" > > "Why didn't you tell me, Clark? None of the reasons I came up with were > really all that great." > > Clark turned to face her and took her hands. "When I first met you, I > knew you were special and I knew that I wanted to get to know you better, > but you wouldn't give me the time of day. You thought I was some hack > from Nowheresville and you hated Perry for saddling you with me." > > "I'm sorry, Clark." > > "It's okay, Lois. It's behind us. I had just created Superman, with the > help of my parents, and I didn't know if it was going to work. You were > this fiery, all business, no nonsense reporter who would do anything for > the story. I didn't really know if I could trust you not to write the > story. Once I got to know you and you got to know me, there just wasn't > really a good way to tell you without you getting really mad at me for > keeping it a secret. So, I never told you." > > "That's why Superman didn't believe me when I told him I would love him > even if he didn't have superpowers." Lois stated without any trace of > emotion in her voice. > > "Do you understand why? You had just told me that there was no way that > you could be in love with me." > > "And you were Superman without the Superpowers." > > "Right." > > "So what do we do now? Do you trust me now?" > > "Lois, of course I trust you now. I have trusted you for a long, long > time. I just didn't know how to tell you." > > "Then why did you tell me that you really don't love me? That you just > said that to get me to not marry Luthor?" > > "What?" > > "Clark, you told me you loved me. And then you took it back. Why? We > both know that you are in love with me." > > Clark sighed. "Lois, I have loved you since the moment you walked into > Perry's office during my interview. I just knew that you didn't feel > that way about me, and I didn't want you to pull away from me because you > didn't feel the same way about me." > > "Clark, tell me again." > > "Lois, I'm Superman." > > "No. Tell me you love me," Lois said with a smile. > > Clark looked deep into her eyes, his eyes full of love and hope. "I love > you, Lois. I always have and I always will. I can't imagine my life > without you. Someday, I want to ask you to spend the rest of your life > with me. I want to give you all of me, both sides of me, and I want you > to love me back." > > "I do, Clark." > > "You do what?" > > "I love you, Clark. Not Superman. Clark. I bet you would say something > like, 'Clark is who I am, Superman is what I can do', right?" > > Clark smiled. "That's how I justify it. Are you sure, Lois? You love > me? All of me?" > > "When you kissed me in the fountain, you know what I thought?" > > "'I wonder if I'm kissing Superman?'" > > "No. I thought 'this is even better than kissing Superman'. You know > why?" > > "No." > > "Superman is a great friend and nice to have around if there are > terrorists and nuclear weapons involved, but I never really knew him. > You are my best friend, the only person who really understands me, who is > always there for me. That's why it was better. You know me and I know > you and that is why..." Lois leaned across their clasped hands and kissed > him gently on the lips. "...I love YOU, not Superman. But you know > what?" > > Clark was still a little stunned. "What?" > > "I get the best of both worlds." > > "How do you figure?" > > "Not only am I someday going to marry - I said someday - my best friend, > every woman's dream man, Clark Kent, but I get to marry every woman's > fantasy, Superman. And I love them both." > > "Do you really mean that?" > > Lois didn't respond. She just moved to sit on his crossed legs and > kissed him again. > > Long minutes later, Clark mumbled into her lips, "I guess you do." > > Lois smiled and answered back softly, "Do you think we need a permit for > this?" > > "Who cares?" And he kissed her again. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:49:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's delightful, Carol Thanks so much ... and you should do these more often! -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ The difference between journalists and other people is that other people spend their lives running from violence, tragedy, and horror and we spend ours trying to get in on it. --P.J. O'Rourke ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:29:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Heidi A. Bingham" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Heidi A. Bingham" Organization: Impressions Web Page Design Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Okay here is the finale from Superman's Shower. HOpe it works for you! And it was well worth the wait. Excellent Carol. :-) ~ Heidi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:04:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lesley Hilliard Subject: Re: Superman's Shower 7/7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Awww. What a nice way to end a wonderful story. And to think it started out as a diversion from some boring class. Lesley in Brampton On ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:41:30 -0000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Bethy Em Subject: Re: That earthbound anti-gravity room idea... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Debby, >A week or two ago a writer asked if there were such thing as an earthbound >antigravity room. That was me! And thanks for the article, I think it will really help. Marilyn -- Debby said that it was a hoax, but it could be possible in Metropolis! And the fact that it was such a good hoax, that it *seemed* to be true, means that I can make it float in my story. ;-) Debby, thanks again, Bethy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:59:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: JaT Subject: Which Episode was it? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What was the name of the Episode that had Lois and Clark at a military demo where a general was killed. I was thinking of using this as a backdrop for a JAG crossover. James ===== World's Wisdom (a bumper sticker): He who dies with the most toys wins. God's Wisdom (Luke 12:15b): Be careful and guard against all kinds of greed. Life is not measured by how much one owns. NCV 7 Days of Superman-Finished!http://www.geocities.com/mr_d8a/7dos.htm WIP for Elisabeth: Story of a Lifetime-TOC http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003563.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:17:47 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Re: Which Episode was it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that was Operation: Blackout. Nan JaT wrote: > What was the name of the Episode that had Lois > and Clark at a military demo where a general was > killed. > > I was thinking of using this as a backdrop for a > JAG crossover. > > James > > ===== > World's Wisdom (a bumper sticker): He who dies with the most toys wins. > God's Wisdom (Luke 12:15b): Be careful and guard against all kinds of greed. Life is not measured by how much one owns. NCV > > 7 Days of Superman-Finished!http://www.geocities.com/mr_d8a/7dos.htm > WIP for Elisabeth: Story of a Lifetime-TOC http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003563.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:29:45 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: JaT Subject: Re: Which Episode was it? In-Reply-To: <3A9D6AFB.FD7A583@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks --- Nancy Smith wrote: > I think that was Operation: Blackout. > > Nan > > JaT wrote: > > > What was the name of the Episode that had > Lois > > and Clark at a military demo where a general > was > > killed. > > > > I was th __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:34:47 -0000 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Which Episode was it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Operation Blackout. LabRat :) > What was the name of the Episode that had Lois > and Clark at a military demo where a general was > killed. > > I was thinking of using this as a backdrop for a > JAG crossover. > > James > > > ===== > World's Wisdom (a bumper sticker): He who dies with the most toys wins. > God's Wisdom (Luke 12:15b): Be careful and guard against all kinds of greed. Life is not measured by how much one owns. NCV > > 7 Days of Superman-Finished!http://www.geocities.com/mr_d8a/7dos.htm > WIP for Elisabeth: Story of a Lifetime-TOC http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003563.html > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 19:06:44 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Restaurant Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, when Lois and Clark wanted to go to a nice dinner, say with Ellen Lane, where would they go? Isn't there THE restaurant in town that everyone goes to? One where they would need (or have the option to get) reservations? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks! CM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:34:44 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: Question about US Immigration and Naturalisation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/28/01 9:44:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ccmalo@AOL.COM writes: > Who in the American system has the power to do that? I'm assuming it would > be a federal responsibility, but does it lie with Congress or could the > President use his power of executive order to make such a declaration? > Josh > Bartlett certainly would. > I could be wrong, but I believe it is the Department of State that decides something like that. I know that it supposedly has a lot to do with the political system in the other country -- human rights problems, secret police, things like that. I have a sneaking suspicion that it also has a lot to do with whatever interests we are trying to protect though, which is why at times people from various countries can't claim refugee status despite the same situation as that of people in some other country. > I'm assuming here that a city's declaration that an outsider is an 'honorary > citizen' wouldn't have much legal standing. But, what would happen if it > did, and then the federal government disputed it, leading, of course to a > court challenge? Are municipal governments the constitutional creatures of > the state governments as they are of our Canadian provinces? Could that > then > lead to a federal vs states' rights conflict in court? Then wouldn't > thecurrent American Supreme Court likely rule in favour of states rights? Only the federal government can confer real citizenship on a person. The rights of cities basically are granted to them by the states. The states have all rights not given to the federal government by the Constitution. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:33:52 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Restaurant Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/28/2001 8:14:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, cmoncado@JUNO.COM writes: << Isn't there THE restaurant in town that everyone goes to? >> Metropolis is a big town. There might be several: THE Italian eatery, THE Chinese eatery, etc. BUT Clark is likely to know some really great more out of hte way places. Then, there's always Uncle Mike's cafe... --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:44:03 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carol L Moncado Subject: Re: Restaurant Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Metropolis is a big town. There might be several: THE Italian > eatery, THE > Chinese eatery, etc. BUT Clark is likely to know some really great > more out > of hte way places. Then, there's always Uncle Mike's cafe... > You know what I mean! *BG* Italian would be good - does anybody know the names of some of the restaurants? Maybe the one from their real first date. And did I miss something? Uncle Mike's cafe? I know who Mike is from the wedding - but a cafe - is this some fanfic thing that us newbies wouldn't know about? Thanks! CM