From: "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" To: "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil" File: "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG0009B" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 05:34:33 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Red Sky Part 24 (Final) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Just thought that I'd take this chance to say thanks for the feedback. I= 'm glad you liked the story and thought it was worth the wait. :) And Lorie, it's lovely to know that you have no negative fdk . . . please= don't apologise. For those of you who have asked, I do hope to send Red Sky to the archive= very soon. Oh, and all your questions will be answered in the next story= in the Family Kent series. Now on to Universal Union 3 . . . but first = I need a rest and to acclimatise myself to living on Krypton. Yours Jenni Debbage ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 07:45:49 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Yet another Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/07/2000 10:20:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET writes: << Married, With Children only has 3 parts, but it has undergone some changes. The final version should show up in the Archive any time now. Thanks for wanting to read it. >> I was hoping to get some answers to what happened to all of these. :) --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:43:26 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Charlotte Fisler Subject: Re: Yet another Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/7/00 8:22:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes: << People like MR D8A ;), who posts irregularly, we would probably wait until it was completed. >> Ah, but James you'll miss so much. That guy is such a good writer. Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:50:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Whither 'Tank Endings'? On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:36:30 -0500, Wendy Richards < wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote: >Second, where could they be stored? Might the Archive be appropriate? >Kathy, could this be akin to another Theme - a Tank Endings section? Is >there another possible site? The Theme page is not an all-inclusive listing of stories; it was set up to be a sampling of stories to get new readers started on the Archive. We no longer add new stories to the Theme lists, and haven't done so for some time now (at least two years -- the Kerth list acts as our unofficial "recommended" list these days.) We do add new links -- for example, the latest Kerth winners/nominees -- and we will be adding a Fanzine page this month. But those are major projects in L&C fanfic and as much as I loved the silly revelations, I don't consider them to be in the same category, as say, a full list of Kerth winners. If someone wants to create a website with the "Tank Endings" and the "Silly Revelations", we can add a link to the site from the Archive. Alternatively, if the authors wish to submit their work, we can put them up as usual. My personal opinion -- the silly revelations, if someone were to compile them, could easily be put into one file, containing all the stories. We could list it under "various authors" and include a list at the beginning of the file of those authors, in the order in which the revelations appears in the file. I think this would be cute and would probably even be eligible for "Best Comedy." The Tank Endings would probably do best as their own website, which we could link to, since as someone suggested, a link to the original story would be helpful. Alternatively, if Tank (or a group of authors, if the endings are not all written by him) would like to compile all of these "endings" into one document and submit that to the Archive, I would be happy to treat it as a regular submission. We would not link to the original stories, but the file could easily reference them. If there are more "endings" written the future, authors could periodically add a "Tank Endings, part 2", etc. So bottom line, if we ever get our "keyword search" project off the ground, these would be good keywords to add. But I can't see adding a new theme to the Archive for a relatively small amount of stories. Kathy _________________________________ Kathy Brown Editor-In-Chief Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive: kathybrown91@home.com OR kathyb@lcfanfic.com KathyB on IRC _________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:59:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: kubitc Subject: Re: Lapses in Time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all of you who answered my question about writing time lapses into stories. I was most concerned that a large time lapse would be jolting and annoying to the reader, but that doesn't seem to be the case. That's a relief since it's looking like such a lapse is going to be needed to fit the story together Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." -Michaelangelo ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:20:38 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: L&C Fanfic Writing Session: Saturday, September 9, 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone: Our long hiatus is over and we hope you can join us Saturday, September 9, 2000, for our online fanfic writing session. Our premise this week: An Elseworld story: It's second season and after a great first date (and with no Scardino on the horizon) Lois and Clark have started changing their relationship from partners and best friends into something *more*. But a sudden airline disaster and a series of mishaps threaten to destroy not only this developing romance but their friendship as well. We will meet Saturday starting at 3:30 PM EDT and will try to start writing fairly soon thereafter. You can come and join the fun at any time, since we are usually there for several hours. As any one of the regulars in the peanut gallery can tell you, writing a story takes time ;). A note on procedure here ;) : When people need to be caught up on the story in progress after being bounced off IRC or just joining the session late, please try and avoid pasting the story directly into the channel window. Please do that in a private message or dcc-chat window instead. Hope to see you all there! Cheers, Eileen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:26:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Melisma Subject: Re: L&C Fanfic Writing Session: Saturday, September 9, 2000 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eileen, please clarify which channel we will be in? Thanks :) Melisma (under her rock, excited that round robins are finally starting again, and hoping everyone else will be there, either to write or to be in the peanut gallery) Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 20:24:16 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: Re: L&C Fanfic Writing Session: Saturday, September 9, 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/8/00 7:31:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, melisma@INTERGATE.CA writes: << Eileen, please clarify which channel we will be in? Thanks :) >> L&CFanfic on the IRC. Cheers, Eileen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I asked on this list earlier this week about the possibility of getting a =91permanent=92 home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations and the like, and= whether anyone was interested in seeing this happen. There has been quite a bit of interest, expressed publicly and privately, and Anne Ciotola has offered space on annesplace to store the stories. (Thanks, Anne! You=92re wonderful!). So here=92s what I suggest. In relation to the Silly Revelations and Episode Tank Endings, since these are all together in the same folder(s) on the Message Boards, I will simply download them from the website, remove comments and formatting, and get them ready to be uploaded on Annesplace in a single file - or possibly more than one, in the case of the Silly Revelations, and will give them a quick edit for spelling and grammar. If anyone does *not* want their Silly Revelation or Episode Tank Ending uploaded in this manner, please email me at the address below and I=92ll remove it from the file. In relation to the Story Tank Endings, if authors would like these to be uploaded to annesplace, the onus is on *you* to send me the Ending. If you don=92t have a copy on your hard drive, you should be able to find it using the Message Board Index: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/lnc.html Please send me your Tank Ending in the following format: - as text in the body of an email or as a plain text attachment - no RTF or commercial software formats, please - spellchecked, please - with your name, the title of the story to which it=92s a Tank Ending, and a URL where the original story can be obtained - eg Archive, annesplace, your own website etc I=92m also willing to do a quick spelling/grammar edit on these, if authors wish - though that shouldn=92t be seen as a substitute for doing it yourself= first! If you=92d like me to edit before sending your Ending to Anne for uploading, please say so, and also indicate whether you=92re willing just to= let me make whatever corrections are necessary rather than referring them back to you. Is this okay with you, authors? Wendy ------------------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 12:13:24 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rich & Dawn Subject: Message Board Index update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi FoLCs! The following stories were updated in the index tables at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/lnc.html this week: AN EXTRAORDINARY MAN: KRISSIE (AKA CHRIS CARR) BEGINNINGS: DEIMOS1 (AKA NAN SMITH) DEAR LOIS: SHAYNET FEAR OF DISCOVERY: YVONNE CONNELL GROWING PAINS: AERM1 (AKA ANN) HIDING IN THE SHADOWS: IRENE DUTCHAK JUST ANOTHER UNDECOVER ASSIGNMENT: WENDY RICHARDS LOST AND FOUND: JEFF BROGDEN PERSONAL LOYALTIES: CINDY LEUCH THE EXODUS: THANATOS THE MARTHA CHRONICLES 3: ATTALANTA (AKA CHRISTY KUBIT) TRYST: PART PAM JERNIGAN Completed stories this week are: RED SKY: JENNI DEBBAGE T&W CHALLENGE NO. 4 - DON'T TELL MOM THE BABYSITTER'S HURT: WENDY RICHARDS & TANK WILSON New stories started this week are: TANK ENDING CHALLENGE VARIOUS W&T CHALLENGE NO. 5: MYX AND MATCH: TANK WILSON Enjoy! The Index Crew ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:10:35 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Question about old fanfiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone remember the stories "Losing Faith" & "Saving Grace" written by Shelly? They were originally from the old AOL fanfic boards from years ago. The email address in the stories (Jerrica76@aol.com) is no longer available. I am trying to get in touch with Shelly. At the end of Saving Grace, she talks about a continuation to the story called "New Hope". I was wondering whether this story was ever completed, and if so is it available anywhere, because I would love to read it. Thanks for any help. Melody ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 15:18:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations Need some help here - I'm trying to catalogue the Silly Revelations by episode, but *someone* (/me slaps Kathy ) used the egg-frying teaser as her hook. Anyone know what ep that's from? I really don't want to go through my entire S1 collection to watch the teasers... too much distraction! Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:01:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Dennis Arendt Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Individual Responsibility ----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy Richards To: Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations > Need some help here - I'm trying to catalogue the Silly Revelations by > episode, but *someone* (/me slaps Kathy ) used the egg-frying teaser as > her hook. Anyone know what ep that's from? I really don't want to go > through my entire S1 collection to watch the teasers... too much > distraction! > > > Wendy > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:24:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations Thanks, Brenda, but I'm pretty sure it was S1. The IRC FoLC reckon it was PML... any other guesses? Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:45:14 -0500 Reply-To: bbmedos@booksanctuary.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "B. B. Medos" Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations In-Reply-To: Wendy wrote: << Thanks, Brenda, but I'm pretty sure it was S1. The IRC FoLC reckon it was PML... any other guesses? >> I can think of two times where Clark was cooking something Season 1. One was when his dad came to visit in Ides of Metropolis and the other was Man of Steel Bars, I think. Wasn't he cooking something when Lois showed up to "feed" Superman. Or was he just putting a pot of water on? Beverly :-) bbmedos@booksanctuary.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:50:25 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/9/00 5:24:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: << The IRC FoLC reckon it was PML... any other guesses? >> Yup, Wendy, just double-checked and it is definitely PML. Kate ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:57:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Question about old fanfiction On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:10:35 EDT, No Name Available wrote: >Does anyone remember the stories "Losing Faith" & "Saving Grace" written by >Shelly? They were originally from the old AOL fanfic boards from years ago. >The email address in the stories (Jerrica76@aol.com) is no longer available. >I am trying to get in touch with Shelly. The only place I know of that has some of the old AOL stories archived is: http://members.aol.com/beth012400/fanfic.htm I have no idea if these stories are there or not, though. The titles don't ring any bells with me. Can you provide a summary of the plots to give us a bit more to go on? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:03:13 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:50:25 EDT, Kate Crane wrote: >Yup, Wendy, just double-checked and it is definitely PML. >Kate Thanks, Kate. I was sure it was S1, but I couldn't remember the episode. And the night I posted it, no one on IRC was sure either. So I'm glad to finally get official confirmation. :) Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 22:50:06 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: Re: Permanent home for Tank Endings, Silly Revelations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're welcome, Kathy. Kate ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:11:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers As some of you know, I was in Canada last month and was privileged to meet two Canadian FoLC and talented writers while there - Irene Dutchak and Karen Ward - as well as our very talented and highly organised ListMom, Kathy Brown. I've uploaded some photographs from that trip to Zing, so if anyone's interested you can find them here: http://www.zing.com/album/? id=4293642517 Click on the thumbnail images for a larger photo plus full caption. Wendy ------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:19:51 GMT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Camilla Håkansson Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The adress you wrote didn't work for me. Can you please post it again? Camilla >As some of you know, I was in Canada last month and was privileged to meet >two Canadian FoLC and talented writers while there - Irene Dutchak and >Karen Ward - as well as our very talented and highly organised ListMom, >Kathy Brown. I've uploaded some photographs from that trip to Zing, so if >anyone's interested you can find them here: http://www.zing.com/album/? >id=4293642517 > >Click on the thumbnail images for a larger photo plus full caption. > > >Wendy > >------------ >Wendy Richards >wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:37:56 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Renate Ziegler Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kansson wrote: > The adress you wrote didn't work for me. Can you please post it again? > > Camilla It didn't work, because the addie wasn't on one single line. Try: http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4293642517 Ren ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:47:14 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/ Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Camilla, the URL was broken into two lines, which is probably why it didn't work... try this: http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4293642517 It worked for me... and FOLCs never look the way I picture them in my head, I wonder why that is... (for the longest time, I thought Kathy was blonde ;) -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:25:06 -0500 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nice pics Wendy thanks merry Wendy Richards wrote: > As some of you know, I was in Canada last month and was privileged to meet > two Canadian FoLC and talented writers while there - Irene Dutchak and > Karen Ward - as well as our very talented and highly organised ListMom, > Kathy Brown. I've uploaded some photographs from that trip to Zing, so if > anyone's interested you can find them here: http://www.zing.com/album/? > id=4293642517 > > Click on the thumbnail images for a larger photo plus full caption. > > Wendy > > ------------ > Wendy Richards > wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:35:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:47:14 -0400, Pam Jernigan wrote: >http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4293642517 > >It worked for me... and FOLCs never look the way I picture them in my >head, I wonder why that is... (for the longest time, I thought Kathy was >blonde ;) LOL, well, when I was in Kindergarten ... But I know what you mean, Pam. I had pictured Karen as a blond, too, though I couldn't say why! Thanks for putting the photos up, Wendy! Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:42:03 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a daughter-in-law names Wendy, with long, blond hair, so I found myself thinking of Wendy R as blond. Silly, I know... Nan Kathy Brown wrote: > On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:47:14 -0400, Pam Jernigan > wrote: > >http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4293642517 > > > >It worked for me... and FOLCs never look the way I picture them in my > >head, I wonder why that is... (for the longest time, I thought Kathy was > >blonde ;) > > LOL, well, when I was in Kindergarten ... > > But I know what you mean, Pam. I had pictured Karen as a blond, too, though > I couldn't say why! > > Thanks for putting the photos up, Wendy! > > Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rich & Dawn Subject: NKerth2000 Ceremony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi FoLCs, There is only about a week left until this year's NKerth Ceremony! The ceremony will be next Saturday, September 16, at 6 pm Eastern time on the undernet IRC channels #nkerth for the ceremony and #nkerthchat for audience participation. Hope to see you there! The NKerth Crew ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:22:21 -0500 Reply-To: cdmorris@mail.wf.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Cheryl Morris Subject: Re: Question about old fanfiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both the stories you mention are available at her website. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4765/loisandclark.html Kathy Brown wrote: > > On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:10:35 EDT, No Name Available wrote: > > >Does anyone remember the stories "Losing Faith" & "Saving Grace" written by > >Shelly? They were originally from the old AOL fanfic boards from years ago. > >The email address in the stories (Jerrica76@aol.com) is no longer available. > >I am trying to get in touch with Shelly. > > The only place I know of that has some of the old AOL stories archived is: > > http://members.aol.com/beth012400/fanfic.htm > > I have no idea if these stories are there or not, though. > > The titles don't ring any bells with me. Can you provide a summary of the > plots to give us a bit more to go on? > > Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:11:00 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Singin Drew Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wonderful pictures! I have to say, everyone is exactly how I pictured them! Well, Kathy I already had the pleasure of meeting, but the rest of you, I hope to meet you soon! And that's a wonderful pic of you and your husband Wendy! Kristin PS- Where can I get my own Clark? He was adorable!!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Marilyn L. Puett" Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers Thanks Wendy for the chance to see what you and the others look like. It's always fun to be able to put a face with the name you see online. About the website you used...Zing.com. Is that for anyone to use? Do you have to have a digital camera or can you just upload photos you scanned? That would be great for doing pictorials for the family and friends for Christmas, graduations, weddings, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:12:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pat Subject: Re: Red Sky Part 24 (Final) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenni Debbage wrote: >Now on to Universal Union 3 . . . but first I > need a rest and to acclimatise myself to living on Krypton. Those words are music to my ears, Jenni :) At LAFF, during a long drive through the canyons on a *very* winding road, I told Jenni how much I'd enjoyed the first two parts of Universal Union (highly recommended reading in the archive) and that I was anxiously awaiting the rest of the story. Thanks so much for letting us know that project is in the works! Pat (wondering which SPF sunscreen works best for a red sun ;) peabody@mcs.com pattijean@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:45:50 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: StarKitty Subject: Re: Red Sky Part 24 (Final) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I finally managed to find the time to finish reading this. It's great! I can't wait for the sequal (there is going to be one, right? ) Tara ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Debbage" <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM> To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:29 PM Subject: Red Sky Part 24 (Final) Title : Red Sky ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:53:17 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rowan Fuller Subject: Re: Time Elapsed 18/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone I'm away so much at the moment that I have to catch fanfic as and when I can. Anyway the Time Elapsed series has caught my attention as the installments always seem to be long enough for my time period and then I go away again and come back just in time for a little bit more. Anyway what I really want to ask as well as praise the story. Has there been anymore since Part 18? Part 18 is the last one I have found in my mail box and as I have been away for about a month, I didn't want to have lost any. Thanks in advance Rowan :) -- -- -- LaneKent@aol.com Lois & Clark: Over 200 Links, News & Information About the TV Show and Its Cast: http://members.aol.com/laneken t For news of updates to my site: http://www.onelist.com/commun ity/LaneKent Other Pages: D ean Cain T he Many Faces and Talents of Teri Hatcher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:29:41 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Marilyn, > Thanks Wendy for the chance to see what you and the others look like. It's > always fun to be able to put a face with the name you see online. Isn't it? I have mental pictures of so many people, and it's fascinating to see just how wrong I can sometimes be! > About the website you used...Zing.com. Is that for anyone to use? Do you > have to have a digital camera or can you just upload photos you scanned? > That would be great for doing pictorials for the family and friends for > Christmas, graduations, weddings, etc. Someone on the boards told me about Zing. It's very user-friendly - even an idiot like me can get pics uploaded in seconds! And any scanned pictures can be uploaded. There's a facility to order pictures into albums, and even, should you wish, to create a slide-show with musical accompaniment! www.zing.com - just create an account and you're off! It's all free too... Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:47:38 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Yet another Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Coming belatedly to this... > > 1. How many of you wait until a WIP is finished > and in the archive before you read it? Hmmm. I wish I had the willpower to do that! Nope, I devour every instalment of the stories I'm reading as soon as I see them on the boards! > 2. What WIPs are you waiting for? Looong list... Yvonne's Fear of Discovery - she tortures me still further by letting me beta-read! Irene's Hiding in the Shadows, for the same reason! Traceylynn's A Love Well Worth the Wait - and she delays as long as Yvonne between instalments! Chris Carr's An Extraordinary Man - been a little long between instalments, Chris! ShayneT's exciting and insightful Dear Lois Raconteur's long Elseworld saga, Lifeflight and more... and stories not on the boards, such as Helene's Near Wild Heaven and LabRat's Lonesome, both of which I've read between a third and a half, and am absolutely gripped! Thankfully, I can say that I'm *not* being driven crazy waiting for the final Tryst, since I read it last night! So come on, authors, put a poor demented reader out of her misery! Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: alauters Subject: Re: Time Elapsed 18/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rowan -- Time Elapsed 18 was, indeed, the last part posted so far. I'm glad you're so interested! It will be probably a week or so before more is posted; my thesis proposal is due this week and I've been working on that, instead :) Amy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:22:34 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rowan Fuller Subject: Re: Time Elapsed 18/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/09/2000 14:12:56 GMT Daylight Time, alauters@CSD.UWM.EDU writes: << Rowan -- Time Elapsed 18 was, indeed, the last part posted so far. I'm glad you're so interested! It will be probably a week or so before more is posted; my thesis proposal is due this week and I've been working on that, instead :) Amy >> Good luck Amy. I'm away now for at least a week so even if it doesn't come I wouldn't be able to read it. Just glad I haven't missed any. Its almost been like old times when waiting for new episodes of the show to air, while waiting for installments. Its fun. Rowan :) -- -- -- LaneKent@aol.com Lois & Clark: Over 200 Links, News & Information About the TV Show and Its Cast: http://members.aol.com/laneken t For news of updates to my site: http://www.onelist.com/commun ity/LaneKent Other Pages: D ean Cain T he Many Faces and Talents of Teri Hatcher ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:26:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: alauters Subject: Re: Time Elapsed 18/? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <,Its almost been like old times when waiting for new episodes of the show to air, while waiting for installments. Its fun.>> I'm glad you're enjoying it! Amy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:40:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Question about old fanfiction On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:22:21 -0500, Cheryl Morris wrote: >Both the stories you mention are available at her website. > >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4765/loisandclark.html I just went there and Geocities gave me the ole "this page does not exist". Is the URL incorrect, or perhaps the link was an old one? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:47:38 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question about old fanfiction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4765/loisandclark.html > > I just went there and Geocities gave me the ole "this page does not exist". > Is the URL incorrect, or perhaps the link was an old one? It worked for me a few hours ago. Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:43:56 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wanda McCants Subject: Re: OT: Pictures of FoLC writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/00 10:35:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > About the website you used...Zing.com. Is that for anyone to use? Do you > have to have a digital camera or can you just upload photos you scanned? > That would be great for doing pictorials for the family and friends for > Christmas, graduations, weddings, etc. Wendy, Thanks for sharing your trip with us. The pictures were great. Not just great pictures, but a "new " website to share them on. Boy the things I find out by being a part of this list. :-) " Old soldiers never die; they just fade away." Wanda ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:48:47 +0100 Reply-To: "yconnell@ukf.net" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: yconnell Subject: Question for a fic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know what happens if you're invited to be interviewed on a current affairs-type TV programme? a) Would they send a car to pick you up? b) Would the interviewer talk to you beforehand, or would you just go in cold? c) Presumably you'd get make-up, whether you were male or female? d) Would you share a dressing room with others; would you even have a dressing room? e) Who would be your main behind-the-scenes person - some kind of hospitality official? f) Presumably the producer would introduce him/herself to you at some point, but would they have any other interaction with you? Answers to any or all of these questions will help me write the next bit of FoD :) Thanks, Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:46:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Question about old fanfiction On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:47:38 +0100, Wendy Richards < w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK> wrote: > >> >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/4765/loisandclark.html > >It worked for me a few hours ago. Just tried it again and it worked this time ... glad we have our answer. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 05:40:55 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question for a fic Yvonne, I've never been interviewed on current-affairs TV programme, but I have been on such types on the radio, and I have colleagues who've done the TV sort. Essentially, the answer to your questions is largely dependent on how important you are! If you're a celebrity, definitely... if you're Joe Soap, mostly no. With the people you're thinking of... I'd say no car, no massive fuss. If there's a separate room in the hospitality suite, that may be more to do with keeping her/him/them separate from other guests. Someone will talk to the guests about the format of the show, but that may not be the producer - depends on the show's budget and the size of its staff! Could be a production assistant. And yes, make-up... a colleague of mine was interviewed for Newsnight, although they recorded it at a local studio in Stoke rather than bringing her to London. She'd done her own mak- up (as she always does) but they touched her up a little. It's more to stop the cameras glaring or finding shiny spots on the guest's faces than to make them look beautiful, I think! Does this help? And I'm really looking forward to the scene in question! Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: Question for a fic Wendy, that's very useful, thanks :) One question you didn't answer was whether the interviewer would talk to you beforehand or not. I'm guessing (hoping, actually ) not, but I don't want to start setting any precedents here! Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:12:34 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Question for a fic On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:27:44 -0500, Yvonne Connell wrote: >Wendy, that's very useful, thanks :) One question you didn't answer was >whether the interviewer would talk to you beforehand or not. I'm guessing >(hoping, actually ) not, but I don't want to start setting any >precedents here! Ah, sorry! Missed that one. Again, depends on the programme, the production budget, the number of guests that night, the importance of the individual guests... Someone would certainly talk to you about the likely questions and your likely answers, so that the interviewer has an idea of what you may be likely to say, but that could be done by a researcher who will then prepare a briefing for the interviewer. Of course, if the guest(s)in question are there as a surprise for another guest, it's very possible that he/she/they will be kept somewhere private and not be contacted at all by the interviewer, so that their presence isn't detected. Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:41:01 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: kubitc Subject: Re: Question for a fic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yvonne, I spent my summer working at a PBS affiliate. I was in the Educational Services Dept., but I worked a great deal with Production, too. I can answer some of your questions, but I think the answers vary depending on the show. >a) Would they send a car to pick you up? Depends on the show. If you were flown in to be a special guest (such as for a big-budget national show), they would probably send a car for you. If you lived nearby or if the show was local, you would likely have to get there yourself. >c) Presumably you'd get make-up, whether you were male or female? Yes, if only to make sure you showed up well on-camera, as Wendy said. >d) Would you share a dressing room with others; would you even have a dressing >room? Though we did shoot some of our own programming (local interview shows, station breaks, cooking shows), our station did not have dressing rooms for guests. I would guess most local shows would not, and most national shows would have some sort of green room, shared by all guests. >e) Who would be your main behind-the-scenes person - some kind of hospitality >official? >f) Presumably the producer would introduce him/herself to you at some point, >but would they have any other interaction with you? Probably a production assistant (PA) would perform these functions. You *might* be introduced to a producer at some point, depending on how busy the set is, but the PA would be responsible for your comfort, for making sure you're in your seat on time, etc. I don't know who you're planning on making the show's guest, but if the person's a celebrity, the producers might *want* to be introduced to him/her, if they were fans. Hope that helps. Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." -Michaelangelo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:49:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: International (English) vocabulary differences This is a question, or topic for discussion, which I'm bringing up here in response to something which arose in a thread over on the message boards. I'm shifting it here because, apart from not wanting to detract any more from Ann's entertaining story, I wondered how members of this list felt about the subject. My question, or issue, is: to what extent do we, or *should* we, as writers, take account of the fact that our readers are an international audience and might not understand certain cultural or vocabulary differences? To what extent should readers expect writers to be aware of international differences? Now, first, let me clarify that I am not seeking to 'suck the soul out' of individual narrative styles. Nor am I suggesting that all readers are lazy and can't be bothered to look up words they don't understand. Nor - to pre- empt another objection - am I ignoring the fact that L&C is set in the US, and fanfic based on the series is therefore going to have certain cultural influences. That is not my point at all. There are words and phrases which have no meaning outside the US. There are words which mean something different outside the US (pants = trousers in the US, for instance, while in the US pants are an item of underwear). I'm not suggesting that US writers should not use vocabulary with which they're familiar. *But* at times I know I get the impression that Americans - readers and writers - aren't aware that there are English-speaking people in other countries, or that there are vocabulary differences. This came up because I queried the word 'candystriper' in a story; the term meant nothing to me and I was genuinely lost. Often when that happens I can figure out the meaning from the context. In this case, I couldn't, so I asked; I also raised the general question of using cultural-specific terms in stories. Probably not surprisingly, the general question has elicited responses suggesting that people should simply go away and look up the unfamiliar word, instead of asking authors to think about their language usage. That argument has appeal... except that it doesn't appear to work both ways. Most of you know that I'm based in the UK and write in UK English. One of the very first pieces of feedback I got began 'Arrrgh! Not another XXX Brit!', and went on to complain about UK-English spellings - amazingly, the (US-based) writer intended her message as a compliment. I have been criticised, mostly in private emails but once publicly on this list, for use of UK-English terms in narrative; on this list, I was taken to task for using 'homely' to mean a welcoming home environment, which *is* what it means in the UK and Ireland. I have made a number of adjustments to vocabulary in my writing, in narrative as well as dialogue, to cater for the US audience, which I certainly didn't mind doing if it meant that readers would have less occasion to be 'jolted out of the story' by an unfamiliar word. This is probably turning into a self-pitying rant, which is not what I intended! I know, and do appreciate, that those who responded to my query on the boards are well-intentioned, and that there is good sense in the 'look it up' suggestion. However, we *are* an international audience in FoLCdom, and I do wonder whether we do, as both readers and writers, consider that. Okay, I've put my flame-repellent suit on now, so fire ahead! Wendy ------------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadow.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LaNita Cornwall Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wendy, I started reading English mysteries (Agatha Christie, etc.) long, long ago. Most of the time I understand what the author is trying to say, even when the usage may be unfamiliar, based on reading those books and the context of the word in the story I'm reading. And I enjoy the regional, national, international cultural differences these vocabulary differences point out. I get much more frustrated by references to television shows I don't watch or products that I don't have a clue what they are, than just different word usages. Why not add a glossary at the bottom of a fic to explain some of the odd words (if you know they are odd) for people who might not understand what they mean? And why should anyone get upset about an honest request for clarification of a word used in a story? Or expect people to totally revise their vocabularies to accommodate people somewhere else? Yes, L&C is an American show, but so what? BTW, I call my underwear panties and my jeans, pants. quinn -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Richards [SMTP:wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK] Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:50 AM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: International (English) vocabulary differences This is a question, or topic for discussion, which I'm bringing up here in response to something which arose in a thread over on the message boards. I'm shifting it here because, apart from not wanting to detract any more from Ann's entertaining story, I wondered how members of this list felt about the subject. My question, or issue, is: to what extent do we, or *should* we, as writers, take account of the fact that our readers are an international audience and might not understand certain cultural or vocabulary differences? To what extent should readers expect writers to be aware of international differences? Okay, I've put my flame-repellent suit on now, so fire ahead! Wendy ------------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadow.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:39:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy, as a canadian we use more of a hybrid of uk english and us english. plus we have a bunch of slang that does not translate well into international fic, i would not be upset if someone needed clarification on something that i had wrote and i would also be very willing to change any obscure wordings to make it easier or i would find a way to define the term in the actual fic if there was a reason that I was using the particular phrase, so I do not see a problem with asking for clarification or even editing ..... Marnie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:52:43 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ***Warning, Will Robinson! Warning! Personal Opinon Approaching! Danger! Danger!**** Wendy wrote: > This is a question, or topic for discussion, which I'm bringing up here in > response to something which arose in a thread over on the message boards. > > This came up because I queried the word 'candystriper' in a story; the term > meant nothing to me and I was genuinely lost. Often when that happens I can > figure out the meaning from the context. In this case, I couldn't, so I > asked; I also raised the general question of using cultural-specific terms > in stories. Probably not surprisingly, the general question has elicited > responses suggesting that people should simply go away and look up the > unfamiliar word, instead of asking authors to think about their language > usage. Well, Wendy, you already know my pov. ;) And you've already rebutted most of my points, which are on the mbs anyway, so I won't repeat them here, except to generally reiterate that I do personally believe that the onus is more on the reader than the writer. > > That argument has appeal... except that it doesn't appear to work both > ways. Most of you know that I'm based in the UK and write in UK English. > One of the very first pieces of feedback I got began 'Arrrgh! Not another > XXX Brit!', and went on to complain about UK-English spellings - amazingly, > the (US-based) writer intended her message as a compliment. I have been > criticised, mostly in private emails but once publicly on this list, for > use of UK-English terms in narrative; on this list, I was taken to task for > using 'homely' to mean a welcoming home environment, which *is* what it > means in the UK and Ireland. I have made a number of adjustments to > vocabulary in my writing, in narrative as well as dialogue, to cater for > the US audience, which I certainly didn't mind doing if it meant that > readers would have less occasion to be 'jolted out of the story' by an > unfamiliar word. > However - I would like to make it clear here that my opinion does work both ways. I don't limit it to US specifics and I would definitely agree with you that, in general terms, imo US readers should be just as willing to check out new terms and phrases as any other nationality. I'd go so far as to say that imo that piece of fdk was just plain rude. Although, from what you say the author simply didn't realise what a back handed compliment it was. I would have been vastly irritated to have received such fdk myself. I don't remember the incident to which you refer here on the list, but if I could have at the time I'd have defended your right to use whichever terms you thought fit! If I didn't enjoy using US language myself, I wouldn't trim my narrative one little bit. An example of a UK author who doesn't, I believe, is Menolly. I don't know whether she's had fdk like yours, but if she has it doesn't seem to have dissuaded her any. I say, use the words you feel comfortable with. If you get email querying a phrase give the explanation. But don't be pressured into abandoning your native language simply because you confuse a reader or two and don't for one minute accept that your writing is somehow less because you are not using US terms. Everything is of equal worth. That turned into a general point along the way there, just in case you all thought I was still talking to Wendy. ;) > This is probably turning into a self-pitying rant, which is not what I > intended! I know, and do appreciate, that those who responded to my query > on the boards are well-intentioned, and that there is good sense in > the 'look it up' suggestion. However, we *are* an international audience in > FoLCdom, and I do wonder whether we do, as both readers and writers, > consider that. Well if that was a rant, this one is too. ;) I agree that it is often forgotten. But I'm still of the opinion that is is easier and makes more sense for the reader to do the work of conversion. There are more of them than authors after all. And, as I said over on the mbs, no one author can take all possible countries and languages into account and would be bound to miss something. I figure creating is hard enough. If I had to spend all my time fretting on whether a word was going to be understood by someone in Brazil or Krypton I'll never get anywhere. > > Okay, I've put my flame-repellent suit on now, so fire ahead! > Interesting discussion point as always, Wendy. :) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:55:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Thanks for your comments, Rat - for the most part, I agree with you (now there's a surprise! ). LaNita, Marnie, I wasn't actually suggesting that people shouldn't ask for clarification of unfamiliar words, or that I would not do so myself - in the case in question, I did! I was raising the more general point of awareness of our own cultural imperialism. LabRat wrote: >>>***Warning, Will Robinson! Warning!<<< /me scratches head... Huh?? Is this another cultural stumbling-block? Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:19:53 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > >>>***Warning, Will Robinson! Warning!<<< > > /me scratches head... Huh?? Is this another cultural stumbling-block? > > LOL. Another 'Lost in Space' reference, Wendy. Remember that irc conversation a time back? Will Robinson was the kid, the robot used to flail its arms around and repeat something similar to warn of approaching danger. ;) Don't ask me what - not that you were about to, right? ;) - I was never that big a fan of the show. I know, I know - that was more information than you wanted or needed. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Wendy wrote: > This came up because I queried the word 'candystriper' in a story; the term > meant nothing to me and I was genuinely lost. Often when that happens I can > figure out the meaning from the context. In this case, I couldn't, so I > asked; I also raised the general question of using cultural-specific terms > in stories. Probably not surprisingly, the general question has elicited > responses suggesting that people should simply go away and look up the > unfamiliar word, instead of asking authors to think about their language > usage. I haven't read the thread in question on the MB, so I'm not sure in what tone the responses were given. "Simply go away and look it up" sounds to me like you were told that non-Americans have no right to even ask the question. I strongly disagree with this, and if I occured in this way, I find the suggestion quite rude. There are words that I don't know, and if it seems like something I should know, I will look it up, yes. But certain terms are simply not going to be in the dictionary -- cultural terms, in particular -- and asking for a definition from the author/message boards *are* how you would "look it up". But the second part of your statement "instead of asking authors to think about their language choices" implies a very different dynamic. This implies that the author was not simply asked for the meaning, *but told to change the word*. To me, they are very different things. (And in fact, it is directly related to the "feedback" discussions we had here recently -- namely, that asking someone a question about something that confused you in their story is not the same thing as saying "you better change this or your story will suck!") In other words, were you argued with because you asked what candystriper meant, or because you told the author that it was a poor word choice? The former is rude, the latter is debatable. > That argument has appeal... except that it doesn't appear to work both > ways. Most of you know that I'm based in the UK and write in UK English. > One of the very first pieces of feedback I got began 'Arrrgh! Not another > XXX Brit!', and went on to complain about UK-English spellings Rude people live all over the globe. ;) Seriously, just because some Americans feel that way doesn't mean that everyone does. Of all the hundreds (if not thousands) of Americans that have read your stories, Wendy, how many have complained on this to you? A dozen? Two dozen? I've probably seen close to that many Europeans and Canadians complain that Americans spell "flavour" (flavor) and "centre" (center) wrong! >*But* at times I know I get the impression that Americans - > readers and writers - aren't aware that there are English-speaking people > in other countries, or that there are vocabulary differences. Again, your implication is that only Americans do this, and I don't think that's a fair statment. Are you saying *all* non-Americans know there are differences? There are readers and writers at all abilities and knowledge levels in this and every other fandom. >I have made a number of adjustments to > vocabulary in my writing, in narrative as well as dialogue, to cater for > the US audience, which I certainly didn't mind doing if it meant that > readers would have less occasion to be 'jolted out of the story' by an > unfamiliar word. OK, so why did you choose to do this? Or to put another way, if 80-90% of the readers of your stories were European English speakers, would you have even considered adjusting your word choices? My guess is that if you were writing for a UK television show, and a few Americans questioned your word choices, you'd explain what it meant and move on. And I don't think you'd be wrong for doing so. >To what extent should readers expect writers to be aware of international >differences?" Personally, I think that may be the wrong question. How can someone be aware of something they aren't aware of? Were you at fault for using "homely" instead of "homey" when you had no idea the meanings were different in America? Should you have been *expected* to know? I don't think so. I think the more logical topic to debate instead should be "how should a writer *react* when informed that their word choice might not be understood by 100% of their readers?" The answer to that question is, of course, going to be subjective. It's going to depend on the author, I think, and what their desire is to make their work as univerally understood as possible. And it's going to depend on the composition of the audience itself -- what percentage should be accomodated? 2%? 10%? 20%? At what point does an author start "dumbing down" their story to be sure that *everyone* -- from English speakers of all ability levels, from 8 year olds to 80 year olds -- understands? But it's also going to depend on the word itself and how easily an equivilent term can be found. The word "candystriper" evokes a certain image very quickly; "teenager working at the hospital going room to room seeing it there is anything she can do to help a patient cheer up" is, let's admit it, a bit cumbersome. ;) Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:19:53 +0100, LabRat wrote: >Wendy wrote: > >> >>>***Warning, Will Robinson! Warning!<<< >> >> /me scratches head... Huh?? Is this another cultural stumbling-block? >> >> >LOL. Another 'Lost in Space' reference, Wendy. Remember that irc >conversation a time back? Will Robinson was the kid, the robot used to flail >its arms around and repeat something similar to warn of approaching danger. >;) Don't ask me what - not that you were about to, right? ;) - I was never >that big a fan of the show. Well, I *was* a big fan of that show, and I was ROTFLMAO when I read it in your post, Lab. Thanks for the smile on my face! Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: Question for a fic Thanks, Christy. Good to get the info from someone who's actually worked in the industry! And thanks again, Wendy, especially for those extra subtle little hints . Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:47:00 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: <> As the writer who used the term in question, I would like to say, that A) I was not upset that Wendy questioned what candy stripers were [although at least one response on this thread sounds like someone thought I must have been ] and B) I try very hard to avoid using terms which are extremely cultural in nature. As I explained over on the message boards, I have a UK based beta-reader who did not question my use of the term, and thus I thought it would be understood on the other side of the Atlantic. <> This is very true. Unfortunately, we don't always know which terms aren't the same, or which terms would be unknown in other countries. Even in the US, there are terms which vary in meaning from region to region. Sometimes context clues one in, sometimes not. The term "soda" for example. On the East Coast, it refers to a carbonated soft drink, i.e. Coca Cola. Where I grew up, in the Midwest, a soda is a combination of vanilla ice cream, flavored syrup, and seltzer water. If I write that someone is drinking a soda, it means entirely different things to different people in the US. <<*But* at times I know I get the impression that Americans - readers and writers - aren't aware that there are English-speaking people in other countries, or that there are vocabulary differences.>> I'll agree with you on that one, Wendy. As a long-time foreign language teacher, I've been battling the isolationist attitude of Americans for over 20 years. But as I said above, even if we know that vocabulary differences exist, that doesn't mean we necessarily know which ones there are. <> Again, the problem is, how does one know in advance which terms won't be readily understood? <> Hw bizarre, not to say rude! << I have been criticised, mostly in private emails but once publicly on this list, for use of UK-English terms in narrative; on this list, I was taken to task for using 'homely' to mean a welcoming home environment, which *is* what it means in the UK and Ireland.>> This seems to me to be the same situation. You probably had no idea that "homely" means unattractive in the US. <> Okay, I've put my flame-repellent suit on now, so fire ahead! Well, as a writer, I try to avoid cultural specific terms. Obviously, it didn't work in this instance. I am curious as to what you think is the solution. If I had explained in the text of the story what candy stripers are, it would have taken away the effect I intended it to have. So, what is the answer? A gloss at the beginning perhaps? Of course, we still need to know what needs glossing. Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:07:45 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy wrote: > I haven't read the thread in question on the MB, so I'm not sure in what tone > the responses were given. "Simply go away and look it up" sounds to me like > you were told that non-Americans have no right to even ask the question. I > strongly disagree with this, and if I occured in this way, I find the > suggestion quite rude. There are words that I don't know, and if it seems > like something I should know, I will look it up, yes. But certain terms are > simply not going to be in the dictionary -- cultural terms, in particular -- > and asking for a definition from the author/message boards *are* how you > would "look it up". > [Well, at the last count, Kathy, there only were two responses and one of them was mine. I basically said what I did here on the list. Not sure if there were others as I haven't been back to the thread since. Or the mbs come to think of it. What my suggestion had been was that with the advent of the net, such terms could be looked up there fairly easily. I wasn't thinking of a dictionary. There are lots of US-UK translation sites available these days, for example, so it's easier to get through any cultural barriers than it certainly used to be in the old days. And most authors have an eddress attached to their fic, so a confused reader can always mail them. The responses that I've seen weren't saying that Wendy shouldn't have asked on the mbs. They were in response to her more general point - that her pov is that authors should consider cutting out terms that would be unfamiliar to an audience outside the US or putting in explanatory notes when they use them. I disagreed and said so, for the reasons I've already gone into here. Although not so eloquently as you just did with your candy striper explanatory note. That was what I was trying to advance as my pov, but failed on, I think. I see it as something that would be very cumbersome for an author to do. Which is an entirely personal bias. But the second part of your statement "instead of asking authors to think > about their language choices" implies a very different dynamic. This implies > that the author was not simply asked for the meaning, *but told to change the > word*. To me, they are very different things. [I agree. ] > > In other words, were you argued with because you asked what candystriper > meant, or because you told the author that it was a poor word choice? The > former is rude, the latter is debatable. > [Wendy may have another pov or other knowledge if other posts have since been added to the thread, but not as far as I'm aware. I made a joking reference to Wendy not asking me what candy striper meant when I used it in Caped Fear, but it *was* a joke, nothing more. Other than that, my response and I think the other, although I'm less certain on the specifics of that one, were on the more general point that Wendy had advanced. That authors should be sensitive to international audiences and perhaps think about tailoring their fic accordingly. Wendy can give you the specifics of her opinion though far better than I can. Apologies for the paraphrasing, Wendy.] > Rude people live all over the globe. ;) Seriously, just because some > Americans feel that way doesn't mean that everyone does. Of all the hundreds > (if not thousands) of Americans that have read your stories, Wendy, how many > have complained on this to you? A dozen? Two dozen? I've probably seen > close to that many Europeans and Canadians complain that Americans spell > "flavour" (flavor) and "centre" (center) wrong! > [LOL, ain't that the truth. As several irc debates are testament too. ;)] > Again, your implication is that only Americans do this, and I don't think > that's a fair statment. Are you saying *all* non-Americans know there are > differences? There are readers and writers at all abilities and knowledge > levels in this and every other fandom. [A very good point, Kathy. It's sometimes hard to take off the blinkers on all sides of the Pond. So long as it remains a subject for mild teasing between the UK-US divide, I have no problem with it. I've had a lot of fun 'debates' on irc on the question, although Wendy - with cause - generally places me in the enemy camp. . But when it becomes a case of someone saying, you aren't using US terms, that makes what you're doing wrong - or vice versa - then my hackles rise. It's not a case of right or wrong, imo. It's a case of different. Pure and simple. IDIC. (Wendy that's a Star Trek phrase ;) - Infiinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.) And isn't a little diversity what makes these things exciting? Is for me.] > [Deleting the remainder of your comments as this rapidly heads towards a 'me too' post. Oh - too late. ] LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:08:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences More misunderstandings here, I think... probably more to do with limitations of the written word as opposed to anything cultural! Kathy wrote: >I haven't read the thread in question on the MB, so I'm not sure in what > tone the responses were given. "Simply go away and look it up" sounds to > me like you were told that non-Americans have no right to even ask the > question. No, not at all. The term *was* explained. The 'people should look it up' response came to my general point - and it was a point for discussion, not an attempt at issuing a directive - that perhaps writers should try to be aware of language specific to their own environment, which might not be understood by others. >But the second part of your statement "instead of asking authors to think >about their language choices" implies a very different dynamic. This > implies that the author was not simply asked for the meaning, *but told > to change the word*. No, no, no, absolutely not! I wouldn't dream of doing that. I *did* make, as I mentioned above, the general point that culture-specific words make little sense outside their context and can jar people out of a story, and that this might be something writers might consider bearing in mind. That's a suggestion, not an instruction, and no-one is under any obligation to bear it in mind. >In other words, were you argued with because you asked what candystriper >meant, or because you told the author that it was a poor word choice? The >former is rude, the latter is debatable. Neither. I didn't - and wouldn't - make such a statement in any case. >Seriously, just because some >Americans feel that way doesn't mean that everyone does. Of all the > hundreds(if not thousands) of Americans that have read your stories, > Wendy, how many have complained on this to you? Well, when GEs query my word usage because it's a word or phrase they've never heard of, that might make me pay a little more attention! Seriously, I want people to be able to understand my stories without being jolted out of them by language they - as English speakers - don't understand. It's not the same as an American reading Agatha Christie or Georgette Heyer, since these were writing in the early part of the twentieth century for a British audience, and probably had no idea that their books would at a later date become popular in the US. (And, in fact, one of Agatha Christie's plot points rests on the fact that US numerical date format is different from the British; that's something which would only fool British readers, since an American would read the date 'correctly' from the start). >>*But* at times I know I get the impression that Americans - >> readers and writers - aren't aware that there are English-speaking people >> in other countries, or that there are vocabulary differences. > >Again, your implication is that only Americans do this, and I don't think >that's a fair statment. Okay, so maybe I exaggerated a bit. But I don't think I've ever had vocabulary or spelling challenged by a non-American. (unless a Singaporean who herself writes in American English, and took it upon herself to 'correct' all my UK-English spelling and usage, counts ;)) >>I have made a number of adjustments to vocabulary in my writing,[snip] >OK, so why did you choose to do this? Or to put another way, if 80-90% of >the readers of your stories were European English speakers, would you have >even considered adjusting your word choices? My guess is that if you were >writing for a UK television show, and a few Americans questioned your word >choices, you'd explain what it meant and move on. And I don't think you'd > be wrong for doing so. Are you saying that 80 - 90% of L&C fanfic readers are American? I have no knowledge with which to agree or disagree with you here, but I do see this as very much an international fandom. >>To what extent should readers expect writers to be aware of international >>differences?" > >Personally, I think that may be the wrong question. How can someone be aware >of something they aren't aware of? Were you at fault for using "homely" >instead of "homey" when you had no idea the meanings were different in >America? Should you have been *expected* to know? I don't think so. Yes, but the point is that I know *now*. I also know now that Americans don't know what a 'duvet' is, and that you go for takeout instead of takeaway, and a multitude of other differences. I don't 'Americanise' my writing to the point that someone like LabRat does, simply because I don't want to; but once I know a word is unfamiliar to a large part of my audience, I avoid it. Because I *know* that, while some people are prepared to find out what it means, others are not; others will make a point of mentioning the 'strange' word and, in some cases, pointing out that it's not 'American.' Sometimes, when it's GEs telling me this, I'm even grateful because it helps me to increase my knowledge of the language differences. >I think the more logical topic to debate instead should be "how should a >writer *react* when informed that their word choice might not be understood >by 100% of their readers?" Yes, that's a better question. Or a better-worded one, since it's close to the question I intended to ask. :) > At what point does an author start "dumbing down" their story to be sure > that *everyone* -- from English speakers of all >ability levels, from 8 year olds to 80 year olds -- understands? Now, this is not what I meant. I hope I'd be one of the last people on this list who could be accused of wanting to 'dumb things down.' It's got nothing to do with dumbing down, and everything to do with promoting understanding and making an international audience feel welcome. And I'm here talking about an international *English-speaking* audience; I know there are further problems with readers whose first language is not English, and I don't pretend to have any solutions there. >The word "candystriper" evokes a certain image very >quickly; "teenager working at the hospital going room to room seeing it > there is anything she can do to help a patient cheer up" is, let's admit > it, a bit cumbersome. ;) It evokes the image quickly to *you.* In my case, it left me baffled. I knew it had to be some sort of nickname as opposed to genuinely having anything to do with painting stripes on candy, but - given the context - I was imagining anything from autograph-hunters to paparazzi. But isn't 'teenage volunteer' just as easy to say? (And please, do *not* interpret this as a request for Ann to change the word in her story. I am merely using it as an example). Even if I was writing a fic set in the UK, in this fandom, I still wouldn't refer to the WRVS, which is the only sort of equivalent we have here, because it wouldn't mean anything to many readers. Wendy --------------- Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:22:52 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ann wrote: > As the writer who used the term in question, I would like to say, that A) I was not upset that Wendy questioned what candy stripers were [although at least one response on this thread sounds like someone thought I must have been ] and B) I try very hard to avoid using terms which are extremely cultural in nature. As I explained over on the message boards, I have a UK based beta-reader who did not question my use of the term, and thus I thought it would be understood on the other side of the Atlantic. [Oooops. That was me, FoLCs. You know that honestly never occurred to me at any point as a drawback, Ann. Maybe it should have. I've been in love with the American language since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Over the years, I've picked up a lot of phrases and words from US TV in the main and other sources that I pepper my own speech with constantly and have done since I was at primary school. Wendy - be warned! I'm going to drive you crazy when we meet. ;) I didn't query candy striper because I knew what it meant. Have done for years. I used it, as I've said, in Caped Fear. It should have perhaps occurred to me that others in the UK wouldn't have. Apologies! Although, having said that, given my opinion on the subject in general, even if it had occurred to me I probably still wouldn't have queried it. (insert that evil kid icon here. ;) ) It's a US term used in a fic set in the US, written by a US author. Fair enough it seems to me. :)] > > This is very true. Unfortunately, we don't always know which terms aren't the same, or which terms would be unknown in other countries. Even in the US, there are terms which vary in meaning from region to region. Sometimes context clues one in, sometimes not. The term "soda" for example. On the East Coast, it refers to a carbonated soft drink, i.e. Coca Cola. Where I grew up, in the Midwest, a soda is a combination of vanilla ice cream, flavored syrup, and seltzer water. If I write that someone is drinking a soda, it means entirely different things to different people in the US. [Hoo boy and don't I just know it. Try sending your fic to 3 different US beta readers and having them all come back with opposing opinions on what the correct translation of a UK phrase should be. But, again, for me, that's what makes it all fun.] > > Well, as a writer, I try to avoid cultural specific terms. Obviously, it didn't work in this instance. > I am curious as to what you think is the solution. If I had explained in the text of the story what candy stripers are, it would have taken away the effect I intended it to have. So, what is the answer? A gloss at the beginning perhaps? Of course, we still need to know what needs glossing. > [And /me shudders in horror at the thought. It might be a solution, but it would be a complete turnoff for me, personally. Along with Kathy's candy striper explanatory note and long lists of notes at the bottom of the fic, nothing would be guaranteed more to jolt me out of the fantasy woven by the author. I recognise that I'm biased - thanks to all that osmosis all these years, I probably don't have as much of a recognition problem as many others in the UK. Although, heaven forbid that I should suggest I know everything about the US culture and language. Not in the slightest! But I'm pretty happy with the status quo - if you hadn't guessed that yet ;) ] LabRat :) (shutting up now...) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:42:56 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I know what I said. But it's an interesting discussion. You wanna shut me up - drown me out with your own pov. ;) > Okay, so maybe I exaggerated a bit. But I don't think I've ever had > vocabulary or spelling challenged by a non-American. (unless a Singaporean > who herself writes in American English, and took it upon herself > to 'correct' all my UK-English spelling and usage, counts ;)) [ROTFL! Ah, the joys of multi-cultural fdk. ] > > It evokes the image quickly to *you.* In my case, it left me baffled. I > knew it had to be some sort of nickname as opposed to genuinely having > anything to do with painting stripes on candy, but - given the context - > I was imagining anything from autograph-hunters to paparazzi. But > isn't 'teenage volunteer' just as easy to say? (And please, do *not* > interpret this as a request for Ann to change the word in her story. I am > merely using it as an example). Even if I was writing a fic set in the UK, > in this fandom, I still wouldn't refer to the WRVS, which is the only sort > of equivalent we have here, because it wouldn't mean anything to many > readers. > [And - imo only - you'd be wrong, Wendy. If Lois and Clark were in the UK? Sure you should use WRVS! If they met anyone from the organisation, why not? It's a valid term used in the country in question.Course, you would have an advantage in that circumstance. Since Lois would be completely at sea, you could get away with Clark explaining it to her. Something our American cousins don't have the opportunity to do. Equally, for me, teenage volunteer goes back partly to my pov as expressed on the mbs. For me it would leach the character and color - ooops, colour ;) - out of the fic. But I am aware that what is one FoLC's 'flavour' is another's vast irritation. ;) Back to diversity. Of opinion as well as writing choices. ] LabRat :) ( who is reminded all over again that *this* is why she loves FoLCdom - and who is now signing off as dinner is ready. So, you're safe. For a time at least. ;)) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:44:05 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fwding this for Kate. I *think* it was meant more for her than my mailbox. Sorry, Kate. Looks like the glitch is still in force this week. LabRat :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences > In a message dated 9/12/00 11:00:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > > << It's not a case of right or wrong, imo. > It's a case of different. Pure and simple >> > > From an American non-writer reader, that would be my opinion too. Everytime > I read "programme" instead of "program", or "going to hospital" instead of > "going to the hospital", or "going to university" rather than "going to the > university", I must admit to a brief moment of irritation. After all, L&C > does take place in the U.S., right? But then I realize, that's pretty > narrow-minded and stupid of me and I should just be grateful to be reading > wonderful, free, stories about the characters I love. > > Now, here's a possibly ridiculously time-consuming suggestion: have an > American version (proof-read by an American reader) for picky Americans and a > rest of the world version. Even as I type that, I think it's pretty silly. > > Kate, > who spent a year in England and is familiar with most of your Britishisms, so > maybe all the Brits and Canadian authors need to have a foreign exchange year > with American authors...anyone ready to set up the program(programme)? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:42:56 +0100, LabRat wrote: >> who herself writes in American English, and took it upon herself >> to 'correct' all my UK-English spelling and usage, counts ;)) > >[ROTFL! Ah, the joys of multi-cultural fdk. ] Ah... wondered what you meant there for a minute, then realised. Nope, that one wasn't actually feedback. :) >[And - imo only - you'd be wrong, Wendy. If Lois and Clark were in the UK? >Sure you should use WRVS! If they met anyone from the organisation, why not? >It's a valid term used in the country in question.Course, you would have an >advantage in that circumstance. Since Lois would be completely at sea, you >could get away with Clark explaining it to her. Something our American >cousins don't have the opportunity to do.] Well, Rat, you've just answered Kathy's question. *That's* how to explain unfamiliar terms: within the fic, using a device like that so that it doesn't detract from the story. One of my favourite (US) writers, Emma Jensen, uses occasional Scots and Irish Gaelic in her novels, and she always provides a translation for the reader, usually within a couple of lines of the usage, and in such a way that it becomes part of the story. Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:00:19 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/12/00 2:09:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: << Okay, so maybe I exaggerated a bit. But I don't think I've ever had vocabulary or spelling challenged by a non-American. (unless a Singaporean who herself writes in American English, and took it upon herself to 'correct' all my UK-English spelling and usage, counts ;)) >> And you wouldn't, because British English is considered the standard in foreign language teaching throughout the world, just as the French of France is the standard for that language. I would no more teach Canadian French to students in the US, than an English teacher in France would teach the American version of English. It's the same thing with German -- Germany's version is taught throughput the world, not Austrian or Swiss. So readers in France, Italy, etc. would be used to the British spelling and vocabulary, not the American. (Which is why my friend Martine, having spent a year in graduate school in Virginia, went back to France and promptly failed her English exams -- her accent and idiom were "too American." ) Ann Ann ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:05:26 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fwding for Nan. :) LabRat :) > > > > I think there is no ideal solution to the difficulty, and each writer is going > > to have to make up his or her own mind about what to do. I personally, am > > going to do the best I can and not worry about it. If someone has a question > > about a word or phrase I use, they can ask and I'll be happy to explain, but > > if I have to worry about whether or not some word I use is going to be > > comprehensible to everyone all over the world, I might as well not even try to > > write. I'd spend so much time on petty details that I wouldn't even have the > > time or energy to bother to create the story. As for putting in a glossary, > > please! :) How am *I* supposed to know if someone in New Zealand or Germany > > is going to understand some term I use or not? Being only a dumb American, I > > won't. > > When I read a story by writers from other countries than the US, I expect to > run across terms that are > unfamiliar to me. If I can't figure it out from the context, or locate the > meaning in the dictionary, I'll ask. I don't figure it's wrong, just > different. And that's fine with me. :) That's the nice thing about this > group--we are so diverse. It gives us a chance to learn about other customs and > other cultures. That's a good thing. Being too homogenous is dull. > > Nan > > > > > > > Well, as a writer, I try to avoid cultural specific terms. Obviously, it > > didn't work in this instance. > > > I am curious as to what you think is the solution. If I had explained in > > the text of the story what candy stripers are, it would have taken away the > > effect I intended it to have. So, what is the answer? A gloss at the > > beginning perhaps? Of course, we still need to know what needs glossing. > > > > > [And /me shudders in horror at the thought. It might be a solution, but it > > would be a complete turnoff for me, personally. Along with Kathy's candy > > striper explanatory note and long lists of notes at the bottom of the fic, > > nothing would be guaranteed more to jolt me out of the fantasy woven by the > > author. I recognise that I'm biased - thanks to all that osmosis all these > > years, I probably don't have as much of a recognition problem as many others > > in the UK. Although, heaven forbid that I should suggest I know everything > > about the US culture and language. Not in the slightest! But I'm pretty > > happy with the status quo - if you hadn't guessed that yet ;) ] > > > > LabRat :) (shutting up now...) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:08:36 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > Well, Rat, you've just answered Kathy's question. *That's* how to explain > unfamiliar terms: within the fic, using a device like that so that it > doesn't detract from the story. One of my favourite (US) writers, Emma > Jensen, uses occasional Scots and Irish Gaelic in her novels, and she > always provides a translation for the reader, usually within a couple of > lines of the usage, and in such a way that it becomes part of the story. > > Yes, but as I also stated in that post - that only works for UK. In a US fic, Lois would not be confused, neither would most other characters, Clark would have no cause or need to explain and therefore it makes such incidental explanations much more difficult on the US side of things. I agree with you in principle. This is much how I prefer to insert any explanatory notes into a fic. As smoothly as possible, wherever possible. But it's not always easy to do or possible at all and I think we have to acknowledge that. LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:07:45 +0100 Reply-To: "yconnell@ukf.net" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: yconnell Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Interesting topic as usual, Wendy :) You said regarding 'candystriper': ***But isn't 'teenage volunteer' just as easy to say? (And please, do *not* interpret this as a request for Ann to change the word in her story. I am merely using it as an example). Even if I was writing a fic set in the UK, in this fandom, I still wouldn't refer to the WRVS, which is the only sort of equivalent we have here, because it wouldn't mean anything to many readers.*** I may be reducing things down to specifics, but here, the unfamiliar word was used in speech, and thus I would expect a writer to have her character use the vocabulary which comes most naturally to her ('she' being a nurse in a US hospital), not use words which are there merely to serve an international audience. On the other hand, in narrative, I believe things are less clear cut. Where narrative is actually the implied thought processes of a character, should we use vocabulary suitable to that character's nationality? We would probably strive to express their thoughts in that character's idiom (or would we?), so is not the logical extension of that to use an appropriate vocabulary too? I don't know the answer to this question! Conversely, if one can clearly identify (and here's the rub) passages of narrative which are the author's voice, then I think it's perfectly legitimate, and desirable, that the vocabulary and idiom used are native to that author. Wendy also commented that she had the impression that US-based readers and writers don't always appear to be aware that there are other versions of English being spoken and written around the world. Kathy, you countered by pointing out that perhaps the same could be said of those other English-speaking peoples. I think what we have to accept is that although L&C fanfic readers are an international audience, there is still a strong US bias within this population. I admit I don't have any factual evidence to support this claim; it's just an impression I have. However, if I'm right, then it's only natural that a US-centric viewpoint will prevail. This, I'm sure, is borne out by the fact that Wendy's is often the lone voice asking for clarification on a US term, against a volley of enquiries from the US readership asking the opposite question. Now, lest Wendy should get the impression that I'm arguing against her , I think it's good international relations (on ALL sides) to do as much as possible to counteract the US-centric viewpoint. Please don't start putting glossaries of terms in fanfic unless you're using very obscure language (for example, Anglo Saxon); that would suck the life out of fiction - at least, in my opinion! I'm quite happy to stumble over the odd word I don't understand, or even misconstrue, as long as I can get the gist of the piece as a whole. Where I do get frustrated, and I apologise for repeating what someone else said, is when there are liberal references to local personalities and TV programmes etc. Used badly, these really can render passages utterly incomprehensible, or at best, what was intended as a witty reference can fall on very deaf ears ;) Finally (I can hear the cheer from here), I read the first part of the 'candystriper debate' and was most frustrated by the response "ask away; we're happy to explain if you don't understand". The point of the debate wasn't whether authors would be willing to explain the words they used, but whether they should have used the words in the first place, given their audience. But I probably should have said that over on the boards and not here, so I'll shut up now. Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:40:03 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Dennis Arendt Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am mostly a lurker here, while I tend to run off at the mouth on the MBs. But I just had to respond this time. I am responding as a reader only!!!! As far as I am concerned, there is no vocabulary barrier. I read all and I do mean all the fics and nfics that I can get my hands on and if I find a word that is unfamiliar to me, well I research it. Whether by asking the author, a friend, the computer or just using my brain. I love the differences....and I thank the authors for writing the way that is comfortable for them. Just think, if they had not, would I know about prams, trams, lifts, boot, etc. It is interesting, very unique. I haven't (so far) had a problem with any one word. But I am sure if I ever do, then like Wendy I would go to the author and all my questions would become a learning experience. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: LabRat To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences > Wendy wrote: > > > Well, Rat, you've just answered Kathy's question. *That's* how to explain > > unfamiliar terms: within the fic, using a device like that so that it > > doesn't detract from the story. One of my favourite (US) writers, Emma > > Jensen, uses occasional Scots and Irish Gaelic in her novels, and she > > always provides a translation for the reader, usually within a couple of > > lines of the usage, and in such a way that it becomes part of the story. > > > > > Yes, but as I also stated in that post - that only works for UK. In a US > fic, Lois would not be confused, neither would most other characters, Clark > would have no cause or need to explain and therefore it makes such > incidental explanations much more difficult on the US side of things. I > agree with you in principle. This is much how I prefer to insert any > explanatory notes into a fic. As smoothly as possible, wherever possible. > But it's not always easy to do or possible at all and I think we have to > acknowledge that. > > LabRat :) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:14:20 -0400 Reply-To: Kath Roden Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kath Roden Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I heartily agree Bren! I can't tell you how may times I've asked Lab, what some word or phrase meant... And I know from experience that what I call a 'bubbler' is someone else's water cooler, or my cabinet is their frappe, or shake or ice cream soda, and 'grinder' is a hoagie or submarine or poorboy! But isn't that part of the fun! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Arendt > I am mostly a lurker here, while I tend to run off at the mouth on the MBs. > But I just had to respond this time. I am responding as a reader only!!!! > > As far as I am concerned, there is no vocabulary barrier. I read all and I > do mean all the fics and nfics that I can get my hands on and if I find a > word that is unfamiliar to me, well I research it. Whether by asking the > author, a friend, the computer or just using my brain. I love the > differences....and I thank the authors for writing the way that is > comfortable for them. > > Just think, if they had not, would I know about prams, trams, lifts, boot, > etc. It is interesting, very unique. I haven't (so far) had a problem > with any one word. But I am sure if I ever do, then like Wendy I would go > to the author and all my questions would become a learning experience. > > Brenda ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:49:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: James Tull Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:40:03 -0700, Dennis Arendt wrote: >>As far as I am concerned, there is no vocabulary barrier. I read all and I do mean all the fics and nfics that I can get my hands on and if I find a word that is unfamiliar to me, well I research it. Whether by asking the author, a friend, the computer or just using my brain. I love the differences....and I thank the authors for writing the way that is comfortable for them.<< I have to disagree. I know I'm going to get yelled at here but here is another reader POV. Over the years, Elisabeth and I have always loved reading FOLC fic. Especially after the Kerths. Imagine being able to have a say in something that can affect people across the globe. It is a heady experiance at times. And darn frightening at times. But I am 'tangecising.' We enjoy reading the stories out loud to each other whenever we get the opportunity. But mostly we read to ourselves. (Elisabeth averages 3 pages to my one in silent reading!) Sometimes we come across the story that is obviously not written by someone familiar with the US English standard. Usually it's nothing big, and we blow right over it. Who cares if it is 'centre' or 'center.' Big whoopy ding! But the characters need to sound right. An author can say that Lois got something out of the boot of her car or switched on the wireless as a description without taking away from the story. However, to hear Lois say, "Turn on the wireless," or "get the spare out of the boot," just throws you right out of the story. That being said, we have loved the stories based in other countries. Wendy's East Enders/Doctor Who and Jenny's Kent family in England, just to name a few, were, as some of you say, smashing. There I have said my piece. Hey, Wendy, do you have room under that flame resistent tarp of yours? James ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:44:47 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Chipmunks Subject: Mistranslations From Around the World In-Reply-To: <003e01c01de4$657836a0$68512581@k4x6e3> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, With the current discussion of differences in English usage, I thoght this might amuse some of you. Enjoy! Doris forwarded message: A sign in a Swiss hotel "Because of the impropriety of entertaining guests of the opposite sex in the bedroom, it is suggested that the lobby be used for this purpose." A sign at a Thai donkey ride "Would you like to ride on you own ass?" In a laundry in Rome "Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon having a good time." From a letter in response to an inquiry about accommodation "Dear Madam: I am honorable to accept your impossible request. Unhappy it is, I have not bedroom with bath. A bathroom with bed I have. I can though give you a washing, with pleasure, in a most clean spring with no one to see. I insist that you will like this." A sign in a Paris hotel "Please leave your values at the front desk" In a Bangkok dry cleaner's "Drop your trousers here for best results" A sign in a hotel across the street from a Russian cemetery "You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers are buried daily except Thursday." A sign in a Japanese hotel "You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid." A sign in a Swiss hotel "Because of the impropriety of entertaining guests of the opposite sex in the bedroom, it is suggested that the lobby be used for this purpose." A sign at a Thai donkey ride "Would you like to ride on you own ass?" In a laundry in Rome "Ladies, leave your clothes here and spend the afternoon having a good time." From a letter in response to an inquiry about accommodation "Dear Madam: I am honorable to accept your impossible request. Unhappy it is, I have not bedroom with bath. A bathroom with bed I have. I can though give you a washing, with pleasure, in a most clean spring with no one to see. I insist that you will like this." A sign in a Paris hotel "Please leave your values at the front desk" In a Bangkok dry cleaner's "Drop your trousers here for best results" A sign in a hotel across the street from a Russian cemetery "You are welcome to visit the cemetery where famous Russian and Soviet composers, artists, and writers are buried daily except Thursday." A sign in a Japanese hotel "You are invited to take advantage of the chambermaid." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:41:32 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: International (English) Vocbulary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As usual I'm late weighing in on this, but I'd like to advance an opinion that no one else has touched on (I think). From a reader's perspective, I would suggest that one of the greatest joys of reading is to learn about things foreign to your own existence. To read about cultures that are different from my own, and in words that are often unfamiliar is enlightening and broadening, and I welcome the opportunity. New vocabulary is a delight and a challenge. If I can't figure it out, then I ask. That is one of the reasons this list, with its many international contributors, is so fascinating. For a writer to try to figure out what I might or might not know about his/her language and then have to multiply that concern by a number of other readers in other countries would just distract him/her from concentrating on what's important--creating a well written story. I believe that a writer should write about L&C in the way that he or she best can. A compelling story is going to be read even if there are some language problems. Seeing how L&C are perceived in other countries is delightful not disconcerting. I will not speak or apologize for a generalized American attitude toward other cultures in the world. I think that it's a mistake to assume that the Americans on this list can be generalized. I've seen too much diversity displayed here. There are insensitive boors and unthinking clods in every country and I daresay even a few on this list. I don't think writers should be writing to placate them. BTW, Wendy, I love the language as spoken by the English and many of your spellings are preferable to ours. One example, which I just used last night as I was writing, is the color which you Brits spell g-r-e-y. To me this word is much more evocative of its meaning than the American g-r-a-y. So even though my Auto Correct insists that I change it, it will stay grey. As for a glossary at the end to explain words and phrases? As Ann noted, it's impossible to know what those are, and sometimes they can be very patronizing. My bottom line? Let's all write smashing good stories, have jolly good discussions and stop crabbing because somebody writes something we don't completely understand. Just ask; we'll tell, if you remember to play nicely. Jude ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:46:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:07:45 +0100, yconnell wrote: > The point of the debate >wasn't whether authors would be willing to explain the words they used, but >whether they should have used the words in the first place, given their >audience. But I probably should have said that over on the boards and not >here, so I'll shut up now. First off, please don't "shut up" here, Yvonne, because this discussion -- and your viewpoint -- has just as much validity and right to be expressed on the listserv as it does on the MB. Plus I'd guess from some things others have said that *this* is where the main discussion is taking place, not the MB! Secondly, I agree completely that "whether they should have used the words in the first place, given their audience" is the point of the debate. In fact, "given their audience" is what prompts my opinion. I do not have any concrete statistics to back up my numbers, but my feeling is -- having been involved with FoLCdom and L&C fanfic for five years now -- that 80% American is a reasonable guess. During the show's run, it seemed more like 90%, but now that FoLCs are made up of the "die hard" fans, 80% seems a better number. So you know why I say that, I'm basing my percentage on extropolations from the number of active FoLCs in the fandom -- those that post/posted on the MBs, on the listservs, come on IRC -- and also on the writers that submit fanfic to the Archive. (Though with Wendy's list of stories, she might make up that 20% all on her own. ) Obviously this isn't scientific -- who's to say there aren't many more European lurkers than North American lurkers out there who read fanfic? But since lurkers are, by definition, silent members of the audience, it's impossible to know exactly who they are so we can write for them, so it's kind of a moot point for the sake of this argument. Also to clarify: I'm not sure whether Canadians would fall in the 80% or the 20% in my estimate, though since, as someone already pointed out, Canadians speak a hybrid of American and UK English, it would probably be safe to assume that they make up a proportional amount in each category. When I say "American", I really mean "American-speaking/understanding readers". It's been a long time since anyone has conducted a poll of "where are you from?" in FoLCdom, and I'm not sure how scientific that would be either. As I said, I can only base my numbers on what I perceive to be the make up of the active fans. Oh, and James, no need to duck flames on your viewpoint that dialog for L&C should be American -- I have expressed that same opinion (vehemently) many times. I'd have to say that yours is the prevailing opinion of experienced L&C fanfic writers on both sides of the pond! Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:48:24 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: International (English) Vocbulary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/12/2000 11:43:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET writes: << One example, which I just used last night as I was writing, is the color which you Brits spell g-r-e-y. To me this word is much more evocative of its meaning than the American g-r-a-y. So even though my Auto Correct insists that I change it, it will stay grey. >> Hmm, and I always thought I'd picked up the spelling g-r-e-y from my Crayola crayon when I was quite young... (and yes, for all you youngsters, I know that those crayons say g-r-a-y now). --Laurie (who types stuff that's used round the world and so has to think consciously about centre or center especially when it's part of the name of a place) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:59:47 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: kubitc Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >But the characters need to sound right. An author can say that Lois got >something out of the boot of her car or switched on the wireless as a >description without taking away from the story. However, to hear Lois >say, "Turn on the wireless," or "get the spare out of the boot," just >throws you right out of the story. I agree with you here, James. The characters of the TV show Lois & Clark are Americans, and it sounds off to me to hear them speak British English. Likewise, I would expect British characters (even if written by an American author) to speak British English. Also like James, it doesn't seem off to read British English in a passage of non-dialog, or to read British spellings (even in dialog), because spellings wouldn't be apparent when hearing the characters talk (which is all we got while watching the show; most of the show's viewers never saw the script and never knew *how* Metropolitans spell 'color.') When I write (fic and non-fic), my goal is to stay true to my story. If my story is going to take place in another country, I have to educate myself in that other country's customs and words in order to make the story ring true. In the past I've attempted to write a Lois and Clark/Avengers crossover (I've since put it aside due to lack of A plot ;) I watched and rewatched tapes of the Avengers, a British series, and made a glossary of British terms used on the show, in order to get them right. So in the Avengers sections of the fic, I used the terms and slang used in that show. Likewise, if I were to write a story about a professional bowler, I would arm myself with the slang used by professional bowlers, in order to make the story sound real. Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." -Michaelangelo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:36:39 +1100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <00c001c01ce9$6e45cdc0$814030d5@land> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:17 PM, Kate wrote: > > Kate, > > who spent a year in England and is familiar with most of your > Britishisms, so > > maybe all the Brits and Canadian authors need to have a foreign > exchange year > > with American authors...anyone ready to set up the program(programme)? Well, perhaps not for a year, but I would like to take the opportunity to mention that the fold-out couch at Stately Stosser Manor, in Melbourne, Australia, is available for visits from FoLCs, so long as you can prove to Joe's satisfaction that you are not an axe-murderer (and haven't murdered any axes recently ) Jen jenerator@free.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318 Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:40:22 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: StarKitty Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:27 AM Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences > On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:19:53 +0100, LabRat wrote: > > >Wendy wrote: > > > >> >>>***Warning, Will Robinson! Warning!<<< > >> > >> /me scratches head... Huh?? Is this another cultural stumbling-block? > >> > >> > >LOL. Another 'Lost in Space' reference, Wendy. Remember that irc > >conversation a time back? Will Robinson was the kid, the robot used to flail > >its arms around and repeat something similar to warn of approaching danger. > >;) Don't ask me what - not that you were about to, right? ;) - I was never > >that big a fan of the show. > > > Well, I *was* a big fan of that show, and I was ROTFLMAO when I read it in > your post, Lab. Thanks for the smile on my face! > > Kathy > Well, I wasn't a big fan of the show (I thought it was silly when I saw reruns) but I was laughing, too. 'course, the movie was cool Tara ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:12:15 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: StarKitty Subject: Re: Mistranslations From Around the World MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ROTFLMAO!! This is hysterical! Thanks for posting it! Tara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chipmunks" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:44 PM Subject: Mistranslations From Around the World > Hi, > > With the current discussion of differences in English usage, I thoght this > might amuse some of you. > > Enjoy! > > Doris >snip some really funny stuff< ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:15:04 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: StarKitty Subject: Re: International (English) Vocbulary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "No Name Available" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:48 PM Subject: Re: International (English) Vocbulary > In a message dated 09/12/2000 11:43:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET writes: > > << One example, which I just used last night > as I was writing, is the color which you Brits spell g-r-e-y. To me this > word is much more evocative of its meaning than the American g-r-a-y. So > even though my Auto Correct insists that I change it, it will stay grey. >> > > Hmm, and I always thought I'd picked up the spelling g-r-e-y from my Crayola > crayon when I was quite young... (and yes, for all you youngsters, I know > that those crayons say g-r-a-y now). I've always used grey when I wrote. I just like grey better than gray. I don't know why. > > --Laurie (who types stuff that's used round the world and so has to think > consciously about centre or center especially when it's part of the name of a > place) > Tara ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:52:44 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And fwding this for Tara ;) LabRat ----- Original Message ----- From: StarKitty To: LabRat Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 9:03 AM Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences > Can I poke my nose in here? Cool. Thanks :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LabRat" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 11:44 AM > Subject: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences > > > > Fwding this for Kate. I *think* it was meant more for her than my mailbox. > > Sorry, Kate. Looks like the glitch is still in force this week. > > > > LabRat :) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:17 PM > > Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/12/00 11:00:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > > labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > > > > > > << It's not a case of right or wrong, imo. > > > It's a case of different. Pure and simple >> > > > > > > From an American non-writer reader, that would be my opinion too. > > Everytime > > > I read "programme" instead of "program", or "going to hospital" instead > of > > > "going to the hospital", or "going to university" rather than "going to > > the > > > university", I must admit to a brief moment of irritation. After all, > L&C > > > does take place in the U.S., right? But then I realize, that's pretty > > > narrow-minded and stupid of me and I should just be grateful to be > reading > > > wonderful, free, stories about the characters I love. > > I don't really notice things like that. As long as it makes sense, I don't > really pay attention to whether it's written in US format or UK. Unless I > run across a term I've never seen before, it doesn't bother me. Of > course, when I do run into a term I don't know, I usually email the author > to ask them what that is. > > > > > > > Now, here's a possibly ridiculously time-consuming suggestion: have an > > > American version (proof-read by an American reader) for picky Americans > > and a > > > rest of the world version. Even as I type that, I think it's pretty > > silly. > > That'd definately be time-consuming. And silly, too :) That's ok, > though--we don't mind > > > > > > Kate, > > > who spent a year in England and is familiar with most of your > Britishisms, > > so > > > maybe all the Brits and Canadian authors need to have a foreign exchange > > year > > > with American authors...anyone ready to set up the program(programme)? > > > > Hmm, that'd include a US author going over to the UK, right? That could be > interesting. 'specially since I've never been out of the US. > > Tara ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:16:05 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've read with interest the various responses to this thread which came in overnight. It seems that perhaps I need to clarify a few things, though. I never said, nor would I say, that I don't want Lois and Clark to sound American, and I certainly make every effort to ensure that my own dialogue is authentic (and welcome suggestions where I haven't succeeded, which is where the message boards are extremely useful). Nor did I suggest a glossary of unfamiliar phrases - other than in Phil's S6 SoulMates story, I can't think of a story where that wouldn't seem ridiculous. Nor am I asking whether writers should avoid all Americanisms - far from it! In many ways, 'American' and not English is the international language. Nor did I ever want this to turn into a debate about 'right' spelling! (Oh, and I don't know why anyone would see this discussion as a reason to describe themselves as a 'dumb American'!). Back to the question, as clarified very helpfully by Kathy: How should a writer *react* when informed that their word choice might not be understood by 100% of their readers? Well, speaking personally, my reaction has been to *change* the word, or otherwise ensure that it's understood. But then, I write in UK English, which I *know* is a minority language among FoLCs. Kathy, when you recommended that I change 'rucksack' to 'backpack,' and 'car park' to 'parking lot,' I did so. Not because Lois and Clark is set in the US; this was in narrative, not dialogue. I did it because I recognise that the majority of L&C fanfic readers speak American English - not only those in the States, but Canada (the spelling may be mostly UK English, but the vocabulary is largely US), and in South America and other non-English speaking countries, where the version taught is US English. So I also avoid obviously UK-English words such as 'lift' instead of 'elevator,' 'motorway' instead of 'freeway' and so on. For one reason only: to aid understanding. But in *this* particular case, I was talking about a culture-specific term, not a difference between UK and US English language. I have no idea whether 'candystriper' is known beyond the US - eg whether it's also used in Canada. It was a word whose meaning I couldn't guess from the context. Now, I have no problem at all in asking what it means, but my point in this discussion has been, as Yvonne recognised, should we require people to have to ask? No, I know writers aren't mind-readers. This is where Kathy's point becomes relevant - should there, or even can there, be a response beyond, 'well, okay, this is what it means'? once we're told that a particular term is meaningless outside its cultural context? Especially when many of us now post unfinished stories in instalments before a final version is uploaded to the Archive. I note Rat's point, in relation to using devices to explain unfamiliar terms, that "that only works for UK. In a US fic, Lois would not be confused, neither would most other characters, Clark would have no cause or need to explain and therefore it makes such incidental explanations much more difficult on the US side of things." ... but I disagree. It makes it more difficult; it doesn't make it impossible. Let me give an example. Supposing I was writing a novel set in Ireland. I would use Irish vernacular. But I would also be aware - and if I wasn't, my publisher would ensure that I was - that the book is likely to be sold in other countries. So I would use vernacular, but ensure that it's intelligible. Supposing I made one character ask another to "Call the Guards!" I could then continue in a couple of different ways: "She dialled 999 with shaking fingers." [Okay, I know it's 911 in the US/Canada, but I believe the 999 variant is sufficiently well known] or The police car arrived within minutes. "Oh, Guard Hannigan, thank heaven you're here!" she greeted the sergeant. You all now understand what the 'guards' are? And yet I don't think I beat anyone over the head with it. Remember, I'm not here talking about US versus UK English; I'm talking about very culture-specific vernacular. It's also very possible that someone from Britain wouldn't know that the Gardai is the Irish police. Could such a translation for non-Americans be done in other cases? I'm going to take Ann's story as an example again, and I apologise in advance to Ann for doing this - and please, no-one take this as any suggestion on my part that Ann should change her story at all. I merely want to demonstrate that it is possible to ensure that someone *can* 'figure out the meaning from the context,' as Nan suggested should be possible. (It isn't always!) This isn't a spoiler. The relevant portion of dialogue reads: ^^^^^^^^ "We'll try to keep all the candy stripers away, okay?" "That would be nice," he replied. "I'm not sure that I could cope with too much attention right now." ^^^^^^^^ Without breaking the flow of the exchange at all, the response could read as follows: "That would be nice," he replied, grateful that he wasn't going to get mobbed by teenage volunteers. "I'm not..." Non-Americans could then understand the point of the exchange, without losing any 'feel' for the colour and richness of the vernacular. Anyway, that's simply my POV on the subject. By the way, while on this topic, can anyone tell me what the heck a 'firefly' is, other than an insect? I've watched Wag the Dog three times, and am still confused. The President had a 'firefly' in the Oval Office?! Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:32:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:46:44 -0500, Kathy Brown wrote: >First off, please don't "shut up" here, Yvonne, because this discussion -- >and your viewpoint -- has just as much validity and right to be expressed on >the listserv as it does on the MB. Plus I'd guess from some things others >have said that *this* is where the main discussion is taking place, not the >MB! OK, Kathy, I'm following your instruction and coming back for more . My 'shut up' remark was just me being my usual self-depreciating self, but you probably knew that :) You also said: > >Secondly, I agree completely that "whether they should have used the words in >the first place, given their audience" is the point of the debate. In fact, >"given their audience" is what prompts my opinion. > >I do not have any concrete statistics to back up my numbers, but my feeling >is -- having been involved with FoLCdom and L&C fanfic for five years now - - >that 80% American is a reasonable guess. During the show's run, it seemed >more like 90%, but now that FoLCs are made up of the "die hard" fans, 80% >seems a better number. > Looks like we're agreeing here, Kathy :). Here's what I said: ***** I think what we have to accept is that although L&C fanfic readers are an international audience, there is still a strong US bias within this population. I admit I don't have any factual evidence to support this claim; it's just an impression I have. However, if I'm right, then it's only natural that a US-centric viewpoint will prevail. ***** However, I still stand by my remark that it's good international relations (on ALL sides) to do as much as possible to counteract the US-centric viewpoint. > >Oh, and James, no need to duck flames on your viewpoint that dialog for L&C >should be American -- I have expressed that same opinion (vehemently) many >times. I'd have to say that yours is the prevailing opinion of experienced >L&C fanfic writers on both sides of the pond! > Absolutely, Kathy! We don't always succeed, but all the writers I know, wherever they are, want to write idiomatic US English for their US characters. In fact, can we take this as a given? The issue, I believe, is within the narrative of a story. Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:43:52 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > I note Rat's point, in relation to using devices to explain unfamiliar > terms, that "that only works for UK. In a US fic, Lois would not be > confused, neither would most other characters, Clark would have no cause or > need to explain and therefore it makes such incidental explanations much > more difficult on the US side of things." > > ... but I disagree. It makes it more difficult; it doesn't make it > impossible. > Not at all in disagreement with you on this point, Wendy. I agree entirely - that's the type of explanatory note that I would like to see too. And what I would try to use in my own fic if presented with such a situation. I wouldn't like to see anything more heavy handed, but your examples would be fine. That's what I meant when I used difficult, rather than impossible. Exactly as you note here yourself. Although I should have clarified, of course, that when I said 'only works for UK' I meant more in the sense of working simply and easily, not only working full stop. That was a confusion that slipped through. I really should look over these posts more carefully when I'm meandering along, musing aloud. ;) Getting lost in the train of thought and losing sight of the specifics is all too easy. Where I had a varying pov from you, initially, was in your original post on the mbs on this topic, where you suggested that perhaps authors should consider 'avoiding' the useage of terms altogether that might be unfamiliar to an international audience in the interests of being sensitive to the fact that not all readers were from the US. Paraphrasing slightly there, but I don't think I've misrepresented your comment any. If I have apologies. I disagreed with that particular pov - and still do - because I feel, personally, that it would leach the colour and flavour out of a fic if readers took to avoiding everything they felt might be a little on the less than crystal clear side of things. It's just not a solution that I, personally, would like to see at all. But, as I've tried to state frequently in all of my posts on this subject - this is merely my pov and opinion and I'm aware that it doesn't work for all. And I certainly have no objections at all to the solution you suggest here. Works for me. [g] LabRat :) (who found this a very enjoyable and interesting debate) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:40:07 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rat wrote, in response to me: > I > wouldn't like to see anything more heavy handed, but your examples would be > fine. That's what I meant when I used difficult, rather than impossible. > Exactly as you note here yourself. And you did, of course. My apologies for not reading your post carefully enough! > Where I had a varying pov from you, initially, was in your original post on > the mbs on this topic, where you suggested that perhaps authors should > consider 'avoiding' the useage of terms altogether that might be unfamiliar > to an international audience in the interests of being sensitive to the fact > that not all readers were from the US. Yes, having seen the opposing arguments, I would now be more inclined to agree with you that 'avoiding' is too strong. But I would certainly like to see more effort given to aiding understanding - and I agree entirely with Yvonne here. Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:59:55 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > And you did, of course. My apologies for not reading your post carefully > enough! No, no apology necessary on this count, Wendy. I confused the issue by not being careful enough with the 'only works in the UK comment. Entirely my fault. > > Yes, having seen the opposing arguments, I would now be more inclined to > agree with you that 'avoiding' is too strong. But I would certainly like to > see more effort given to aiding understanding - and I agree entirely with > Yvonne here. > Absolutely. No argument there either. Hey, from disagreement to agreement in five easy steps! Boy, I love this fandom! Think we can teach the trolls this process? ;) LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:11:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: James Tull Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:59:47 -0400, kubitc wrote: >>In the past I've attempted to write a Lois and Clark/Avengers crossover (I've since put it aside due to lack of A plot ;) I watched and rewatched tapes of the Avengers, a British series, and made a glossary of British terms used on the show, in order to get them right. So in the Avengers sections of the fic, I used the terms and slang used in that show.<< Oh Christy, write it! Write it! I loved the Avengers growing up. I thought Steede and Perty ??spelling?? where tops! James. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Yvonne Connell Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Wendy and Rat, will you two *please* stop apologising to each other! Yvonne (apologising for going OT) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:52:29 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yvonne wrote: > Wendy and Rat, will you two *please* stop apologising to each other! Sorry, Yvonne!! Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nancy Smith Subject: Re: International [English] vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been reading this discussion with a great deal of interest, and I agree, that when you're not sure that others will understand a term, that an explanation should be offered ( Wendy's example in a previous post is a good one), but I think I made the same point albeit a little differently in my own post. When I write, I will do the best I can, but there are going to inevitably be words that I miss. I've lived in a couple of other countries than the US, as well as all sections of the United States, during my formative years, and know from experience how a word can unexpectedly mean something to others than it means to you . (Been there, done that, more than I like to think). The fact is, we should certainly make an effort to explain, when possible, but not at the sacrifice of the story. And I hate to say it, but sooner or later, every writer is going to guess wrong. That's something I can say with absolute certainty, because none of us knows every idiom from every country, and none of us is a mind reader. (I, for instance, would never have guessed that "candy striper" was unfamiliar to the residents of England.) Like Jude, I regard it as a chance to learn. That's part of the fun. Nan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:03:52 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International [English] vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nan wrote: > (I, for > instance, would never have guessed that "candy striper" was unfamiliar > to the residents of England.) ...or Scotland, or Wales, or Northern Ireland or the Channel Islands; nor also to the residents of the Republic of Ireland. Jenny, is it used in Australia? Irene, in Canada? ;) > Like Jude, I regard it as a chance to learn. That's part of the fun. Of course, as LabRat has said all along. And I now have learnt a new expression, and with it a cultural variation - we don't have teenagers doing voluntary (volunteer ) work in our hospitals; it tends to be older women who have either retired or never entered the paid labour market who do such work. But we can make it a little easier for people to learn, which was why I gave some examples as to how expressions which we, as writers, are told are unfamiliar can be explained. Wendy -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:47:13 CDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessi Mounts Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > From an American non-writer reader, that would be my opinion too. >Everytime > > I read "programme" instead of "program", or "going to hospital" instead >of > > "going to the hospital", or "going to university" rather than "going to >the > > university", I must admit to a brief moment of irritation. After all, >L&C > > does take place in the U.S., right? But then I realize, that's pretty > > narrow-minded and stupid of me and I should just be grateful to be >reading > > wonderful, free, stories about the characters I love. > > > > Now, here's a possibly ridiculously time-consuming suggestion: have an > > American version (proof-read by an American reader) for picky Americans >and a > > rest of the world version. Even as I type that, I think it's pretty >silly. > > > > Kate, > > who spent a year in England and is familiar with most of your >Britishisms, >so > > maybe all the Brits and Canadian authors need to have a foreign exchange >year > > with American authors...anyone ready to set up the program(programme)? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:12:44 CDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessi Mounts Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sorry about that last email. My lovely computer decided it was time to send entirely without my permission. Okay, on to what I mean to say. > > From an American non-writer reader, that would be my opinion too. >Everytime > > I read "programme" instead of "program", or "going to hospital" instead >of > > "going to the hospital", or "going to university" rather than "going to >the > > university", I must admit to a brief moment of irritation. After all, >L&C > > does take place in the U.S., right? I know this has already been covered and covered and covered... but I've got throw my two cents in anyway. As far as "programme" vs. "program" goes, I disagree very much. Yes, L&C takes place in America, but the writing all the writing of fanfic doesn't. There's no reason why someone should have to change their spelling just to cater to an American audience, unless Lois, for some reason, feels the need to spell out "p-r-o-g-r-a-m". The same goes, I think, for British words or phrases *in the narration*. The narration is the author's voice. They shouldn't have to change it to sound more American, even if the audience was 90% American. (And I seriously doubt that's true. Someone really should take a survey some time to find out.) Wendy, I say if we've got duvets in America, go ahead and use "duvet". I want to know what a duvet is. The only complaint I've got with Britishisms is that I know you're going to get me in trouble in school sometime. My spelling keeps leaning toward things like "honour" and "theatre". ;) I wouldn't say the same thing for Lois or Clark or any other American character speaking. It is jarring to hear Clark say something like "going to hospital". Or another example I've seen some of is the word "reckon". >From in commone usage in the UK. But in my part of the country, anyway, that's very much a hillybilly word. I don't know if that's true everywhere else, but I know Clark never used that word on the show. That's something I would have remembered. So I guess my point is (Yep, I've got one. ) keep using whatever ever spelling or phrases you want, just as long as everyone's in character. And if the occasional non-American word slips out of an American character's mouth, that's okay with me too. I love learning new words. Jessi jessi914@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:33:05 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yvonne wrote: > Wendy and Rat, will you two *please* stop apologising to each other! > > Yvonne > (apologising for going OT) Don't worry, Yvonne. I've said the last I intend to on this subject. LabRat ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:28:11 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessi wrote, as part of a very well-argued post: > Wendy, I say if we've got duvets in America, go ahead and use > "duvet". I want to know what a duvet is. Okay, for all those who never knew, a duvet is a quilt. *But* not a quilt as Americans know it. It's usually plain white and comes in different weights, and the idea is that you put it inside a *duvet-cover* - so that you wash the cover, not the duvet. (Well, okay, you might wash the duvet itself occasionally, but not every week or two as you would the cover!). Duvet-covers come in a wide variety of colours and patterns, with matching pillowcases, undersheets, valances, curtains, cushion-covers... you name it. I've seen American-style comforters, and it doesn't *look* to me as if the nicely-patterned covers come off so that they can be washed. In department stores, I saw comforters complete with patterned cover - neither appeared to be sold separately. So do you have to dry-clean your comforters all the time? Or find a *very* large washing machine they'll fit into? Puzzled, Wendy (who still wants to know what a 'firefly' is ) -------------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:39:09 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/00 12:31:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: << who still wants to know what a 'firefly' is >> A little harmless bug whose butt lights up ... usually bright green. Use to smoosh them on my clothes when I was little ... made my clothes turn florescent green. Anne ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:43:18 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > << who still wants to know what a 'firefly' is >> > > A little harmless bug whose butt lights up ... usually bright green. Use to > smoosh them on my clothes when I was little ... made my clothes turn > florescent green. > > Anne Yesssss.... I mean the 'firefly' referred to in Wag the Dog! :) Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:49:52 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kate Crane Subject: vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/00 9:31:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: << I've seen American-style comforters, and it doesn't *look* to me as if the nicely-patterned covers come off so that they can be washed. In department stores, I saw comforters complete with patterned cover - neither appeared to be sold separately. So do you have to dry-clean your comforters all the time? Or find a *very* large washing machine they'll fit into? Puzzled, Wendy (who still wants to know what a 'firefly' is ) >> Actually, Wendy, we have both forms of comforters. I have comforters on my guest twin beds that are all one piece and can be washed in my extra large giant ultra capacity washer. I also have seen (in nicer catalogues) comforter covers that can be removed from the liner and washed in a machine, which sounds very much like your duvets. As far as a firefly, the only one I know is what is also known as a lightning bug, the insect you referred to....so I don't know that it is a common American term for anything else. Your guess is as good as mine. Jessi said (in response to my earlier post): < but I've got throw my two cents in anyway. As far as "programme" vs. "program" goes, I disagree very much.>> I was trying to say that it did not matter to me either, and I hope that came across in the rest of my statement: << But then I realize, that's pretty narrow-minded and stupid of me and I should just be grateful to be reading wonderful, free, stories about the characters I love.>> Reading these little differences just reinforces to me the nature of worldwide folcdom and how the love of this show, it's characters and stories, cuts across multinational and cultural boundaries. Heck, some of my favorite authors are not American....Anne Perry, Rosamunde Pilcher, Irene Dutchak, Wendy Richards ....:). Kate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:02:16 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/13/2000 12:51:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KCrane1865@AOL.COM writes: << Heck, some of my favorite authors are not American....Anne Perry, Rosamunde Pilcher, Irene Dutchak, Wendy Richards ....:). >> LOL!! I agree, having read all I could get my hands on of E Nesbit when I was a kid. -Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:03:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:43:18 +0100, Wendy Richards < w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK> wrote: > I mean the 'firefly' referred to in Wag the Dog! :) I've only seen "Wag The Dog" once, and don't remember the reference you are questioning. The only firefly I know of is the bug, same as you. You'd have to give me the context to see if that jogs my memory. But maybe it was an inside thing, a phrase they used among themselves that didn't have any meaning outside of the characters? Or maybe it was code for something else? A code name for a person, maybe, since it was a political movie (kind of)? As for a duvet, yes, Wendy, we have them here ... I'm actually surprised so many people have said they've never heard of them. They are not as common as what we call comforters, and usually more expensive, but they can be found in any better department store. My parents have one that is down, for example, which can't really be washed (at least not easily), so they use a duvet cover for it. They've had it for years; it's nothing brand new on the market. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:14:53 +1100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <010601c01d7c$63f00b40$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:16 PM 13/09/2000, Wendy Richards wrote: >"She dialled 999 with shaking fingers." [Okay, I know it's 911 in the >US/Canada, but I believe the 999 variant is sufficiently well known] An anecdote: Recently, a friend came over to drop off his son to play with our kids while he went to pick up his new wife from hospital after a minor operation. Joe and he were chatting on our front doorstep, when suddenly our friend collapsed, hit his head on our bluestone driveway and cracked his skull. Joe trained many years ago as a volunteer ambulance officer, so he knew exactly what to do in those circumstances, but he yelled out to me to call an ambulance. This (luckily?) is the first time in my life that I've had occasion to call them; for some totally unknown reason, I dialled 911, before reason set in, and I realised I really should be called 000 ! Gee, maybe I've been influenced by watching too much William Shatner? Jen jenerator@free.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318 Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:19:25 +1100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: International [English] vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <01a501c01d8b$72b99b00$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:03 AM 14/09/2000, Wendy Richards wrote: >Nan wrote: > > > (I, for > > instance, would never have guessed that "candy striper" was unfamiliar > > to the residents of England.) > >...or Scotland, or Wales, or Northern Ireland or the Channel Islands; nor >also to the residents of the Republic of Ireland. Jenny, is it used in >Australia? Irene, in Canada? ;) Nope. never heard of it. The phrase made ME think of the sign outside a barber shop. (Not having read the story in question yet, I didn't recognise the context either.) Jen jenerator@free.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318 Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:29:53 +1100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:12 AM 14/09/2000, Jessi Mounts wrote: I know this has already been covered and covered and covered... but I've >got throw my two cents in anyway. As far as "programme" vs. "program" goes, >I disagree very much. Yes, L&C takes place in America, but the writing all >the writing of fanfic doesn't. There's no reason why someone should have to >change their spelling just to cater to an American audience, unless Lois, >for some reason, feels the need to spell out "p-r-o-g-r-a-m". The same >goes, I think, for British words or phrases *in the narration*. The >narration is the author's voice. They shouldn't have to change it to sound >more American, even if the audience was 90% American. (And I seriously >doubt that's true. Someone really should take a survey some time to find >out.) Wendy, I say if we've got duvets in America, go ahead and use >"duvet". I want to know what a duvet is. What they call a "duvet" in the UK, we call a "doona" here in Oz. Mostly. David (my 8 year old son) thought it was called a "blanket" until I explained to him that a blanket is wool, and often has a satin binding at the top edge. A doona is a polyester fibre filled, or if you can afford it, a duck down or feather filled quilt, onto which you put a "doona-cover" which in his case has pictures of Thomas the Tank Engine, to match his pillow case. I have NO idea what you'd call it in the US. By the way, harping back to a favourite series of mine, Diana Gabaldon explains in her "Outlandish Companion" book that when her first book Outlander (in the UK it was called Cross Stitch) first appeared in the UK, some lovely editor had changed most occurrences of "skein dhu" to "sock knife" (the little dagger that I gather kilted scots carry in their ... um... leg wear (I didn't want to say stocking, although I think that's what they might call them; for me, "stockings" means old fashioned nylons that you hold up with a suspender belt, whereas "socks" are what school kids and men wear.). I believe the lovely editor may have also changed one major character's name (only having read the UK edition, I can't be sure of this) making Colum MacKenzie into Callum. Jen jenerator@free.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318 Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:45:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: OT: Wag the Dog - WAS International (English) vocabulary differences Kathy, you asked for context for my Wag the Dog query. The reference is from a scene near the start of the film, where the Presidential aides are at an airport and they see a TV news about a sex scandal at the White House. Apparently a group of teenage girls (Firefly Girls?) were on a White House tour and the President had one of them in the room behind the Oval Office. It's not spelt out, but the inference is of, at the very least, sexual impropriety. The newsreader refers to the 'firefly,' or perhaps 'firefly girl', and the incident is subsequently referred to as the firefly incident. At least, I'm pretty sure that the word I heard was 'firefly'! Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:30:04 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Elizabeth Reid Subject: mIRC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I've finally taken the plunge and downloaded mIRC. Could anyone give me = some information on when most people go on the lanekent# channel?=20 I live in Ireland, which is basically 5 to 6 hours ahead of the East = Coast, and 9 hours ahead of the West Coast. Any information would be = appreciated. Thanks, Liz ereid@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:51:01 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "MoesyL47 L." Subject: Re: OT: Wag the Dog - WAS International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/00 3:46:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: << The newsreader refers to the 'firefly,' or perhaps 'firefly girl', and the incident is subsequently referred to as the firefly incident. >> Coming out of lurkdom ... As far as I know, there's no actual group called 'Firefly Girls,' but there is an organization in the US called 'Camp Fire Girls' -- probably along the lines of Girl Scouts/Girl Guides. I don't imagine 'Wag the Dog' would have been allowed to use the name of the real orgnization for that reference. :-) Maureen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:14:52 -0500 Reply-To: msberard@earthlink.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Brazil Red Subject: Re: vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, half the time I don't notice the differenace between UK English and American English....but then I've read so many books that were in meant for the UK audiance first and foremost and anywhere where else was just gravy for the publisher. So all I have to say is write away. Kate Crane wrote: > > Jessi said (in response to my earlier post): > < but I've > got throw my two cents in anyway. As far as "programme" vs. "program" goes, > I disagree very much.>> > > I was trying to say that it did not matter to me either, and I hope that came > across in the rest of my statement: > > << But then I realize, that's pretty narrow-minded and stupid of me and I > should just be grateful to be reading wonderful, free, stories about the > characters I love.>> > > Reading these little differences just reinforces to me the nature of > worldwide folcdom and how the love of this show, it's characters and stories, > cuts across multinational and cultural boundaries. Heck, some of my favorite > authors are not American....Anne Perry, Rosamunde Pilcher, Irene Dutchak, > Wendy Richards ....:). > > Kate ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:21:07 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: mIRC Hi Liz! > >I've finally taken the plunge and downloaded mIRC. Could anyone give me some information on when most people go on the lanekent# channel? Any evening, you should find some people there. If you try around 10.30 or 11pm on weeknights, you'll find some Euro-FoLC and maybe a couple of US/Canadians; after midnight/1am our time it gets busier. On Saturday nights, and sometimes Sundays, it'll be busy-ish from around 10. This Saturday, because of the nKerths, we'll mostly be in nKerthchat. >I live in Ireland, which is basically 5 to 6 hours ahead of the East Coast, and 9 hours ahead of the West Coast. Any information would be appreciated. Dia dhuit to a fellow Irish FoLC - I'm Irish by birth and upbringing but now live in England. Just to let you know, Irish/UK time is five hours ahead of East Coast and eight hours ahead of West Coast. The confusion may be because we're on Summer Time still, as are the trans-continentals, but 'official' sites still tend to refer to GMT as the standard time, with BST in brackets. GMT is, of course, currently six hours ahead of EDT. Anyway, see you on #lanekent some time, I hope! Wendy ------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:23:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: OT: Wag the Dog - WAS International (English) vocabulary differences On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:45:44 -0500, Wendy Richards < wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote: >Apparently a group of teenage girls (Firefly Girls?) were on a White >House tour and the President had one of them in the room behind the Oval >Office. It's not spelt out, but the inference is of, at the very least, >sexual impropriety. If you're sure it was "Firefly", my guess is that this was a take off or parody of "Campfire Girls". I have no idea if they even exist anymore, but think Girl Scouts. The term "Firefly" in this context doesn't mean anything outside the context of the movie. There isn't a cultural reference not to get; it's just a parody of the Girl Scouts, etc. For example, in the old Brady Bunch shows, didn't the girls belong to something like the "Sunflower Girls"? Again, it didn't exist -- it was just a generic name for those kind of "scouting" groups that kids belong to. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:39:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: New FAQs! After much time and effort, the new FAQs are up for both the L&C Fanfic Archive and for this LOISCLA-GENERAL-L listserv! The new versions are long overdue, so this is very good news. Although the listserv isn't officially associated with the Archive, its FAQ didn't really have a home (we couldn't include it on the website interface, for example), so we decided to give it one on the Archive. (I guess there are certain economies of scale gained by having the same person run both forums!) Obviously, we've tried to include as much as we can in the files, and catch all the typos and bad links, but I would like to enlist the help of this listserv to make sure the FAQs are up to date and correct. Please visit and follow the links to the new FAQs. The Archive and Listserv ones are the main documents -- they reference the Critique, Grammar, and Ratings documents, though each of those can be linked to separately as well. Can you think of anything we've missed? Did you find any typos or bad links? Feedback is appreciated, public or private. We're planning to compile all the corrections and make them all at once, so anyone who has time to review the files this week would be most helpful. Thanks! Kathy _________________________________ Kathy Brown Editor-In-Chief Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive: kathybrown91@home.com OR kathyb@lcfanfic.com KathyB on IRC _________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:43:44 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/13/00 12:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: << Yesssss.... I mean the 'firefly' referred to in Wag the Dog! :) >> LOL you weren't specific! Anne ;) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:48:01 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > Okay, for all those who never knew, a duvet is a quilt. *But* not a > quilt as Americans know it. It's usually plain white and comes in different > weights, and the idea is that you put it inside a *duvet-cover* - so that > you wash the cover, not the duvet. (Well, okay, you might wash the duvet > itself occasionally, but not every week or two as you would the cover!). -----A question about this custom. When we were last in England, we slept in a couple of B&B's that gave us quilts in duvet covers to sleep under, but no top or covering sheet which is the custom in the US. Other B&B's had both the quilt in duvet cover and a top sheet. What's the normal custom there? Have puzzled over this for months, and now, amazingly, her on the L&C list I have the opportunity to ask the question. Where else could this happen? Jude ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:51:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: OT: Wag the Dog - WAS International (English) vocabulary differences On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:23:03 -0500, Kathy Brown wrote: >The term "Firefly" in this context doesn't mean anything >outside the context of the movie. There isn't a cultural reference not to >get; it's just a parody of the Girl Scouts, etc. > Ah, okay! And here I've been wondering whether this was some sort of weird Washington schoolgirl club! Thanks, Kathy. :) Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:54:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Vicki Krell Subject: Re: mIRC MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I really need to learn how to get onto IRC sometime.... Vicki Krell Sponsored Projects Officer Office of Research and Creative Activities Arizona State University (480) 965-2171 (480) 965-1703 - fax Vicki.Krell@asu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Richards [mailto:wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:21 PM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: mIRC Hi Liz! > >I've finally taken the plunge and downloaded mIRC. Could anyone give me some information on when most people go on the lanekent# channel? Any evening, you should find some people there. If you try around 10.30 or 11pm on weeknights, you'll find some Euro-FoLC and maybe a couple of US/Canadians; after midnight/1am our time it gets busier. On Saturday nights, and sometimes Sundays, it'll be busy-ish from around 10. This Saturday, because of the nKerths, we'll mostly be in nKerthchat. >I live in Ireland, which is basically 5 to 6 hours ahead of the East Coast, and 9 hours ahead of the West Coast. Any information would be appreciated. Dia dhuit to a fellow Irish FoLC - I'm Irish by birth and upbringing but now live in England. Just to let you know, Irish/UK time is five hours ahead of East Coast and eight hours ahead of West Coast. The confusion may be because we're on Summer Time still, as are the trans-continentals, but 'official' sites still tend to refer to GMT as the standard time, with BST in brackets. GMT is, of course, currently six hours ahead of EDT. Anyway, see you on #lanekent some time, I hope! Wendy ------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:24:05 -0500 Reply-To: bbmedos@booksanctuary.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "B. B. Medos" Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <010601c01d7c$63f00b40$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk> Okay, I can't resist. Wendy wrote: << Back to the question, as clarified very helpfully by Kathy: How should a writer *react* when informed that their word choice might not be understood by 100% of their readers? >> Politely? Beverly :-) bbmedos@booksanctuary.com Beverly's Book Sanctuary http://www.booksanctuary.com Check out the changes beginning with Bev's Notebook! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:21:15 +0100 Reply-To: "yconnell@ukf.net" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: yconnell Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----A question about this custom. When we were last in England, we slept > in a couple of B&B's that gave us quilts in duvet covers to sleep under, but > no top or covering sheet which is the custom in the US. Other B&B's had > both the quilt in duvet cover and a top sheet. What's the normal custom > there? Have puzzled over this for months, and now, amazingly, her on the > L&C list I have the opportunity to ask the question. Where else could this > happen? Jude I'd say the usual custom in the UK is a duvet inside a duvet cover and nothing else - it's certainly what everyone I know does. BTW, anyone else heard the term 'downie' for a duvet? Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences Some hotels will put a sheet under the duvet cover, on the basis that they'll change the sheets every day but only change the duvet cover when a guest leaves. I think maybe some people, in their homes, will have a sheet as well on the basis that they won't have to change and wash the duvet cover so frequently; that wouldn't work for me, since my cat makes sure that the top of the cover also gets dirty! Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:35:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/ Subject: NEW: Tryst (13/14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Title: Tryst Author: Pam Jernigan Rated: PG Part: 13 of 14 Feedback: Let it all hang out ;) -- anything goes Summary: Not even Lois's death in the Congo will keep our favorite couple apart for long, in this Elseworld tale... This part picks up after Clark has tracked Lois to where she was in a coma, in a mission; she woke up briefly but soon fell asleep again. **** Clark sat quietly by the bed, watching Lois sleep. Although his watch said 9:00PM, it was much later by local time -- the middle of the night. Lois had been sleeping for hours, briefly waking twice, only to fall back asleep without comment. A healing sleep, the sisters had called it, although Clark suspected that it was at least enhanced by the pain killers she was receiving in her IV. Still, he accepted that she needed the rest, and the latest nurse had discontinued the medicine; it was time for her to wake up a bit more, so they could check on her condition. Time hardly seemed to matter; he was focused on the steady beat of her heart and the soft rise and fall of her chest as she breathed. She might be awake at any time during the night, between shorter naps. Clark was fully prepared to spend the night by her side. He'd come too close to losing her to miss a moment now, and besides, he hated to think of her waking up and finding herself alone. During his uneventful vigil, he'd studied her. At first, he'd been content to memorize her face, comparing it to the pictures he'd seen, and speculating on how much lovelier she'd be when the scrapes and bruises healed. It was hard to tell, but he suspected the photos hadn't done her justice. And no matter what she looked like, it was wonderful simply to be able to *see* her. After a while, though, his attention had wandered, and curiosity had overtaken him. He'd checked the chart kept on the foot of her bed, and then, he had taken his own, private, x-ray survey of her injuries, careful to preserve her modesty. He'd been reassured to find that the Sisters had been thorough in treating her, and that her broken bones were all in the process of mending. Which left him giddily contemplating the concept of a real, live girlfriend. He'd not had much experience at this sort of relationship, between his travels and his differences. He wasn't yet entirely comfortable with sharing his secret, but on the other hand, it felt so blindingly right that he refused to worry about anything. It was much more fun to contemplate the future's wonderful possibilities. He had sometimes doubted that he would ever find a woman to love, and who could love him, but the connection that he felt to Lois was like nothing he'd ever imagined. He looked forward to introducing her to his parents; Dad would be a little protective, but Mom would surely welcome her with open arms. And after they got married... Lois stirred on the bed, gaining his hopeful attention. In sleep, she had been much less corpse-like than in the coma; the restless sighs and fleeting grimaces had kept him calm. She stirred again, and attempted to roll over, but stopped, wincing, as she inadvertently jostled her injured collar bone. "Ow," she mumbled, then blearily opened her eyes. For a moment, she searched the room, looking bewildered at her surroundings, then her gaze fell on Clark. She smiled sleepily. "You're still here." He smiled back. "I'll always be here for you, Lois." He paused, seeing her eyes widen slightly as she woke up further, and wondered if he'd sounded too intense. "Just try not to make hospitals a habit, okay?" Her smile faltered as she shifted on the bed. "I'll try not to -- this hurts too much." Clark leaned forward slightly. "Can I help?" "No!" she replied quickly, her heart rate temporarily increasing. "Just get a nurse, okay?" She smiled up at him, but the smile didn't quite seem to reach her eyes. "I just have to ..." she gestured vaguely, looking embarrassed. "Nature's calling, kinda urgently." "Oh, right." Clark stood, looking around for the nearest nurse. As the sister approached and took over, he discreetly faded away, letting Lois attend to her needs in private. He hoped that her discomfort had been purely physical, but old doubts were stirring in his mind. Lois hadn't seemed to mind his differences before, but then, she hadn't been precisely normal, herself. Perhaps now that she was back in the land of the living, with her choices expanded, she wouldn't want him anymore. When he saw Lois was alone once more, he returned to her side. They had helped her into a sitting position, he saw -- she was looking more awake and less pleased about it than he'd yet seen her. She was scowling at his approach. "You know how they say that whatever doesn't kill you, makes you stronger?" she demanded. "Yeah, I've heard that..." It hadn't seemed to apply to him, so he hadn't really spent much time pondering it. "Well, they lied." She adjusted the sheet with a savage little twitch. "When I was dead, I felt great, but now that it *hasn't* killed me, it just hurts like hell." Clark ached for her pains, but he was also reluctantly amused by her convoluted sentence structure. "Yeah, I bet it does," he agreed. "But you'll be better soon, I hope." "The sister told me I need to keep my right arm in this sling for at least another few weeks," she reported gloomily. "That's my writing hand!" "Can you move your fingers?" he asked, concerned about nerve damage. She demonstrated, conceding grumpily, "They already checked -- I should recover completely. It's just going to be a pain in the butt for awhile." "Don't worry about it then. I'll be glad to help you out." Again, her eyes widened a bit, and her heart fluttered, and he was forced to conclude that he made her nervous. "We'll all help," he generalized it. "Everyone's missed you -- your parents will be in town, even." She rolled her eyes. "Yeah, a lot of help they'll be," she grumbled, but her voice softened as she added, "I'll be glad to see Lucy, though. Maybe she can stay for a few weeks." "There ya go," Clark agreed, sitting back in the chair and firmly suppressing his urge to hold her hand. "So tell me about Carpenter," she changed the subject. "I want to know how the twerp liked being arrested." "He didn't, much." Clark grinned briefly. "Henderson had a few other cops with him, and they looked impressive going into the building in a group like that. Carpenter was cool as a cucumber at first, sticking to his story -- when he wasn't glaring at me. He was a little put out when Henderson showed him the phone records--" Clark paused to make sure she caught the significance of that, and she didn't disappoint him. "Calls to Qtun City, right?" she asked, a gleam in her eye. He nodded. "And to Andresson, at the docks. And then when the search warrant was mentioned, he got really upset, and called his lawyer. He didn't really lose it completely, until the uniformed cops found his secret safe. That's when he started yelling about confidential business information, corporate espionage, and lawsuits." She frowned. "He won't be able to slither out of this, will he?" Clark shrugged, understanding her worry, given her history with the man. "Henderson didn't think so. They should have everything they need to prosecute him for smuggling, at least, and they may be able to get him for attempted murder, too. And his deal with the rebels here has completely disintegrated." Lois looked savagely pleased. "Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. That'll teach him to tell everyone I've *botched* a story. I may have to visit him, when I get back, just to see the look on his face when he sees that I'm alive." "Hmm, yeah, that should be fun," Clark murmured, but his heart wasn't in it. Lois was obviously retreating from him, just as she'd done at least once before now. And he'd have to let her go. At least before, he'd had the advantage of being her only human contact. Now, however, she wasn't so dependent on him. Not that he wanted her to be dependent; he wanted her to have all the choices in the world ... all the same, he wished she would choose *him*, and he had the terrible feeling that she wouldn't. He'd have to give her all the space she wanted. Surely he could still be her friend ... unless his very presence would remind her of such an unsettled time in her life? The worry grew that she would ask him to give up his job, and he had worked years to end up at the Planet -- could he give that up, even for her? Then again, what good was a job, if it would make both of them miserable. He sighed, and realized that conversation had been halted for a few minutes. He glanced at Lois, and found she was nervously picking at the bedsheets with her good hand. Perhaps in response to his sigh, she glanced up, her eyes sliding away from his almost before they made contact. "I'll probably have to testify, won't I?" With an effort, he jerked his mind back to the case in question. "Yeah, you might." She grimaced. "Just another reason it was more fun to be dead." Clark couldn't help himself; he reached forward to touch her hand. "Hey, I happen to think it's better that you're alive." She froze, looking at his hand on hers. "Ah, yeah, well ... about that, Clark ..." She took a deep breath, then rushed into tumbling speech. "When I was dead, I said some things, well, I mean, a lot of things, really, but a couple of *important* things, and I think they were probably at least influenced by the fact that I was, you know, *dead* ... it was just easier, then, but now..." Clark eased his hand back. "I understand." He tried to keep his voice level. "It's probably best that we talk about it. There were exceptional circumstances. You weren't..." his throat suddenly dry, he had to swallow before managing to finish his sentence. "You weren't really in love with me." Lois raised her eyes to his, finally, with an expression almost of pleading. "Well, they were exceptional circumstances, and things are different now, a lot different, and I just want ... I mean, I think it's only reasonable--" "It's okay, Lois," he cut her off, looking away, unable to hear her blunder on about getting rid of him. "I won't hold you to it -- in fact I won't bother you at all." "Clark!" she said sharply, reaching for his hand. "I just meant ..." she faltered, and unwillingly, he met her gaze. Her barriers were down; she looked vulnerable, frightened, beautiful, and altogether lovable. "We got to know each other really fast, and it was great, believe me." She tightened her hand on his in emphasis. "It wasn't exactly normal, though, and I don't really trust myself about this stuff, but I want to try ... so I just thought ... we could maybe try ... dating?" Clark sat stunned, slowly processing that she didn't want to get rid of him, and the cold knot in his stomach began to dissolve, melting under the warmth of her gaze. He smiled. "Yeah, I'd like that." She smiled back, relaxing for the first time since she'd woken up. "Good. Think your Aunt Opal would invite me over again?" Clark laughed. "I'm pretty sure she'd be delighted. And I'd like to introduce you to my parents, too -- when you're ready." Lois made a face. "Oh, god, parents -- mine will be in Metropolis, for the funeral." "Oh, no -- the funeral. We have to stop that." He glanced at his watch, which was still on Metropolis time. "It's late Friday night now, but if you know what number to call, we should probably take care of that." "As fun as it might be to crash the party ... yeah, I guess we should." She frowned for a moment, considering that, then looked up with a gamine grin. "You wouldn't happen to have my Rolodex handy, would you?" **** "Les Etats-Unis, s'il vous plait..." Lois watched Clark try to persuade the international operator to find Perry White's number, and make the connection. He'd worked his way through three languages, so far, but he'd been unfailingly polite. He was probably much too good for her, but she selfishly hoped he wouldn't notice. She was still boggled to realize that he'd thought she wanted to get rid of *him*! On the one hand, it was good to know that he'd have been willing to give her that freedom ... but it scared her to think she'd come that close to losing him over a misunderstanding. Suddenly, the phone appeared, and she recalled herself to the present. "You got through?" He smiled. "It should be ringing now." Hastily, she put the phone to her ear, reminding herself that while she had seen Perry just this morning, he hadn't seen her for a week. "Hello?" Perry answered the phone, his voice clogged with sleep. "Hi Perry -- are you awake?" "Of course I'm awake," he grumbled, then suspicion sharpened his tone. "Who is this?" "Brace yourself, Chief," she warned happily. "This is Lois -- reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated." There was a stunned silence on the other end of the line. "Perry? Are you okay? I didn't know how to break it to you gently..." "Lois?" he bellowed, joy winning out over disbelief. "Lois, honey, if you're alive, I'm happier than a preacher in a month of Sundays!" She laughed, and winked at Clark to let him know it was going well. Although come to think of it, he was probably listening in to both sides of the conversation, she thought with a grin. "Yep, I'm alive -- I was injured, but I'm on the mend now; I'll tell you all about it when I get home. So," with another wink at Clark, "did you hold my job for me, or have you hired my replacement yet?" "None of your sauce, young lady," Perry said sternly. "You're just lucky I haven't fired you for not calling in before now!" "Well, I would have, Chief, if it weren't for the coma." His voice softened somewhat at the reminder of her injuries. "Ha! Well, I suppose I'll forgive you this once. Never mind all that, honey, are you well enough to travel? When can you get home? Where are you, anyway? I can send you another transatlantic ticket to get you home." That brought her up short; she'd just assumed that Clark would fly her home, but she couldn't very well tell Perry that. She looked up to meet his eyes, and saw that he was looking a bit alarmed, himself. Her brain kicked into overdrive. "No, it's okay, Perry. I'm at this mission, and there's, um, a pilot here; he's got his own plane and everything. Anyway, don't worry, I can get home by myself; I'll call you when I get in." "Is this one of those things I don't want to know about?" Perry drawled. "No, don't even answer that. Call me the second you get into town, darlin'; I don't care what time it is. I can come get you at the airport, or whatever you need." Lois silently checked with Clark, who was nodding. "Okay, Chief, I'll do that. Thanks. I don't know when I'll be getting in, but not until tomorrow sometime, I'm sure. Can you spread the word, tomorrow, and cancel the funeral and everything?" She saw Clark wince, and belatedly, she realized she shouldn't have known about the funeral. "Unless you had it already, I mean," she added quickly, making it sound like a joke. "I know Ginny's pretty efficient about that sort of thing." He snorted, and didn't seem to notice her slip. "No, you guessed it right, honey; the funeral's set for tomorrow. Don't you worry, though, I'll take care of it. You just concentrate on getting better, and getting home in one piece." "Ah, don't worry about me, Chief. I told you I'm always careful." She looked over at Clark again, and smiled. "And I'm in good hands. I've got to go, Perry. I'll talk to you tomorrow, when I get in." "All right, fine. Take care, and Lois..." Perry paused for a moment, then added gruffly, "We missed you." "Thanks, Perry. I know I'll be glad to be home! See you tomorrow." She hung up the phone, and gestured for the nurse to take it away. When it was gone, and the nurse safely out of earshot, she sighed noisily. "Well, that was fun." Clark quirked an inquisitive brow. "You handled it okay." "Well, thanks, but it was trickier than I'd expected. You do know that we can't tell anyone you were here?" He smiled, faintly. "I know -- I'm just glad you figured it out. For a second there, you had me worried." She frowned at him. "Clark, I'm not about to endanger your secret. But it would be awfully handy if you had some way to make more use of your powers, don't you think?" "Yeah," he admitted, "but I can't quite see how to do that." "Well, I've been thinking," she said, glancing around the room to make sure they were functionally alone. "And *I* think what you need is some sort of outfit..." **** -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:35:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/ Subject: NEW: Tryst (14/14) Conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Title: Tryst Author: Pam Jernigan Rated: PG Part: 14 of 14 Feedback: Let it all hang out ;) -- anything goes Summary: Not even Lois's death in the Congo will keep our favorite couple apart for long, in this Elseworld tale... **** ...one week later... **** Lois's real return to the newsroom was much more enjoyable than her ghostly return had been, just two weeks before. This time, everyone noticed her, and most had a smile or a happy greeting. She took her time talking to everyone, not at all anxious to return to the days when it was normal for her co-workers to ignore her. She looked around the crowd, searching for Clark's friendly smile. They'd spent a lot of time together, this past week. The more she got to know him, the more she liked him, which was unusual enough -- but even stranger was the fact that he seemed to like her, too, even in real life. She wasn't used to that yet, but she liked it, and she was looking forward to working with him. They had spent a lot of time deciding what their work relationship should be, since no one at the Planet had any idea they'd met before today. Telling the full truth was out of the question, but pretending not to know one another held no appeal. Together, they'd worked out a story that bore some resemblance to the truth, and should adequately explain their sudden friendship. Of course, that only took care of the business side of their relationship. On the personal side, he was maddeningly diffident, treating her as a friend, but no more. It had been disconcerting at first; she had worried that she had finally managed to drive him off. But then she'd realized that he was just being considerate, thinking she wouldn't welcome his affection. She had tried to flirt and drop hints, but he was stubbornly remaining a gentleman. Stronger measures were clearly called for ... but first they had to get through the work day. "Lois!" A familiar voice from behind made her turn -- carefully, as she still had her right arm in a sling. Her smile flattened a bit as she realized the greeting came from Bertie, who had always enjoyed making snide remarks about everyone. "Lois, I'm glad you're back," Bertie said earnestly, and for once her smirk was missing. But then it returned full-force as she steered Lois around the corner. "I've just got to introduce you to our newest reporter. Lois, meet Clark Kent." The startled look on Clark's face told her clearly that he hadn't been expecting this; judging from Bertie's smirk, the woman expected *something* entertaining to happen from this meeting. "Clark, this is Lois," Bertie continued smoothly, ignoring the silence of her two victims. "Lois, Clark has been very interested in you," she confided, as Lois began to realize what she was up to. "I think someone has a little crush..." she sing-songed, eyes glittering in malicious glee. "Bertie," Clark began, looking exceptionally embarrassed, but Lois raised a hand to stop him. Bertie was no doubt looking for some of the famous Lois Lane verbal venom, which had been used before now to cut men off at the knees. She smiled pleasantly at Clark, pretending to ignore Bertie. She'd explain their official story to Perry in a few minutes, but for the moment, she intended to have fun messing with Bertie's head. "Hello, Mr. Kent, pleased to meet you." She raised her left hand for an awkward sort of handshake. After a beat, Clark caught on, and smoothly raised her hand to his lips for a barely-there kiss. "The pleasure is all mine. I've been looking forward to working with you." She caught her breath as the faint kiss made her skin tingle deliciously. "Likewise, Clark. Until this arm of mine heals, I may need some extra assistance -- we'd have to work ... closely ... together. Interested?" She raised a cool eyebrow, wondering how far he'd be comfortable taking this pretense. From the corner of her eye, she could see that Bertie's mouth was hanging open. Unfortunately, some others had also noticed their conversation, and were moving surreptitiously closer. "It would be an honor," Clark replied, his eyes dancing. "But I believe Mr. White is looking for you...." She grinned. "Yes, I'm sure he is." She was almost disappointed he hadn't wanted to flirt further, but he was clearly reluctant to step out of bounds -- even at her instigation. "Nice to meet you," she stated demurely before walking away, her head held high. That glimpse of Bertie looking dumbfounded was making it very difficult not to laugh. She reached Perry's office, and greeted Ginny again. "Is he in there?" "Yep, he's been waiting impatiently for you," Ginny grinned. "But he didn't want to let everyone know how much he missed you." Lois smiled. "I understand." Quietly, she opened the door to the office, and slipped inside. "Hey, Chief, I've got this great idea for a story..." she began, trying to lighten what suddenly felt like a very emotion-laden moment. "Ha!" Perry growled, but couldn't disguise his happiness at her return. When he'd picked her up at the airport, a week ago, he'd actually hugged her, but today he was more restrained, remaining in his chair. "Are you sure you're ready to come back to work? You've got more than enough sick time coming, on top of workers' comp and I don't know what all else. You don't need to force yourself into anything you're not ready for." She shrugged, carefully, settling herself on the couch. "The doctor says as long as I don't stress my collar bone I should be okay. And I'm going crazy at home, Chief." Which was true enough. "Well, I'm going to make sure you don't overwork yourself." He eyed her speculatively for a moment, then said, "I've been thinking ... while you're recuperating, you could use a partner." Lois frowned, wondering what he was up to. Of course, she intended to ask to work with Clark, but she'd never worked well with others in the past, and she distrusted Perry's hesitancy on the issue. "It's only temporary," he hastened to add. "And if you can't stand him, you just let me know; we'll find another way to help you out. But he's good, and he's new, and I think you could work well together." Lois felt a smile building, and tried to tamp it down. "You're thinking of partnering me with a new hire?" she asked, trying to sound insulted. "Temporarily," Perry restated. "He's got experience elsewhere, but he needs that Daily Planet polish, and I know you can help him out there. And he can help you with research, taking notes, carrying files, that sort of thing. Honestly, he was acting a little flaky the first week, and he's been hard to keep track of this past week, but I think he'll work out okay once he settles in. His name is--" "Clark Kent," Lois supplied, taking pity on him and moving smoothly into the official version of their first meeting. "I already met him. He came by the apartment last week, wanting to apologize for packing up some of my belongings -- he explained everything." Perry was staring at her, with an expression almost akin to Bertie's. "You've ... met him?" She smiled serenely. "Yes. He's very nice. I'm looking forward to working with him -- he showed me the story he'd done on Carpenter and the gun-running story; it was good work." "Ah, well ... yes, of course. Well, good then. Okay." Perry searched for some papers on his desk, clearly taken aback by her easy acceptance of what he'd thought would be a hard sell. Carefully, Lois stood, an exercise that had gotten easier with practice, and as her various aches had faded. "Well, if that's all ... I have a story I want to track down." Perry looked up, his grouch-mask firmly back in place. "You'd better be talking about Superman." She grinned. "I am." Clark had made his public debut two days ago, but so far he'd revealed very little beyond indicating his name. She and Clark would rectify that in their upcoming interview, which should educate Metropolis on her newest hero. Still smiling, she left Perry's office and headed for her desk. Of course, the Superman story wouldn't take very long, but she also had a follow-up to the Carpenter story in mind, and she was eager to introduce Clark around to her network of sources. "Kent!" she barked, seeing everyone in the newsroom watching her in fascination. Clark walked up, looking alert and amused. "Yeah, Lois?" "You're with me -- we're going to get the scoop on Superman." Grabbing her purse, she started towards the elevator, knowing he would follow. Behind her, she heard Ginny laugh. "Oh yeah," she commented, "Lois is definitely back." **** Opal heard the front door open and put down the pot lid. The stew, once started, didn't require a lot of attention, which was why she'd chosen to make it tonight for Clark and his new friend. Leaving the kitchen, she walked down the main hall as quickly as she could, observing them from the relative dimness of the hall. Clark and Lois were standing close together, she noted, seeming remarkably comfortable with each other. Lois was very pretty, apart from the sling on her arm, Opal decided approvingly. "Hello, Clark," she greeted him warmly as she entered the foyer. She gave Clark a quick peck on the cheek before turning to his companion. "And you must be Lois." Clark smiled proudly, keeping one arm along the small of Lois's back. "Yes, this is Lois Lane. Lois, this is my aunt, Opal Jenkins." Opal extended a friendly handshake. "I'm so glad you're here." Up close, she could see that Lois still bore half-healed scrapes on her face, but all in all she looked to be in excellent shape for someone who'd been pronounced dead so recently. "I'm so pleased to meet you, Mrs. Jenkins," Lois replied, with a wide smile. "Clark's told me a lot about you." Opal laughed softly. "He hasn't told me a lot about you, but what I have heard has been very intriguing! And of course I've read your work, so it's a pleasure to meet you finally. Please come in, both of you." She steered them towards the front parlor and asked Lois, with a touch of humor, "I assume you're the reason I've scarcely seen Clark this week?" Clark winced. "I'm sorry, Aunt Opal, I didn't realize I was spending so much time away." She waved a dismissive hand at him. "Pish tosh. I'm sure you've had your reasons." "It is partly my fault," Lois confessed, "although the whole Superman thing has been hectic, too." That decidedly ambiguous comment made Opal pause. She hadn't had much chance to talk to Clark this week, particularly after Superman had begun making himself conspicuously helpful. As far as she knew, Clark had never shared his secret with anyone outside his closest family; would he have revealed himself to a woman he'd only just met? And an award-winning reporter, at that? On the other hand, he was looking completely besotted, whether he knew it or not, which may have affected his judgement. She found herself wishing that she'd returned Martha's call today, daytime rates or not. She arched an eyebrow at Clark, hoping he would clear up this confusion. "I suppose you've been trying to get the story there, have you?" Lois grinned. "We got the definitive interview today -- it'll be tomorrow's front page news. Personally, I think he's a hit." Clark was looking concerned. "Aunt Opal, did my mom call you? I thought she was going to." Opal sighed. "There was a message, last night, but I haven't called back yet -- I knew I should have." "Ah, well ... Lois knows all about Superman." He shuffled his feet guiltily. "The costume was her idea, actually." Opal took that in silently for a moment, and considered being annoyed at having been left in the dark. Of course, it was partly her own fault, for being stingy with her phone bill. Besides, it was about time Clark put his gifts to good use. She turned to Lois with a smile. "Thank you, my dear. I think it's a splendid idea." Lois smiled wryly. "I'm glad you think so; Jonathan about spit when we first told Martha and him about it. But then, he wasn't too happy about me knowing about Clark, either -- at least not at first." Clark reached out to hold her hand. "He's always been protective of me," he explained quietly. Lois looked at him, lacing her fingers through his. "I know that, Clark; it's okay." She laughed briefly. "I'd have probably been a lot ruder, in his place! And your mother was great." "So you've met them?" Opal asked, eager to hear all the details. Lois nodded. "Yep, Clark flew us to Kansas the other night -- see, that's the reason he hasn't been home much lately. Between work, and Superman, and babying me, he's been booked up." "Not to mention side trips to Kansas," Opal commented dryly. "Well, only the one ... we needed someone who could sew, and Clark said his mom used to do good Halloween costumes when he was a kid." "Yes, she's always been handy at that sort of thing," Opal replied vaguely; although that sort of hand work had been much more emphasized when she was growing up, she had never taken to it, and had in fact always striven to avoid it. "I take it things went well." Lois grinned. "Eventually. We had a few rejected designs." A blush began to stain Clark's cheek at the memory, to Opal's vast amusement. "Did you help out, dear?" "I was, ah..." her lips twitched as she sought the right term to use, "a technical consultant." "Yes, she helped," Clark stated firmly, clearly anxious to move the conversation to less delicate matters. "But we finally got the right costume, and even Dad thought it looked pretty sharp. And now that I have a disguise," he glanced at Lois, "I can go flying more, which is pretty great." Lois glanced sideways to meet Clark's gaze and grinned slyly. "Yeah, flying is pretty incredible ... shame I can't do it myself. Still, flying with Clark definitely has certain compensations." Opal smothered a knowing smile. "Yes, I'm sure it has, dear." She paused, then decided to risk a delicate inquiry. "You two seem very ... close." Clark ducked his head. "We're friends," he explained. Lois was less reserved. "We're dating, he means. And we're working together, too, starting today." "You're working? But your arm..." Opal gestured to the sling. Lois shrugged. "I can deal with it. And Clark helps. He made me take it easy all last week, but now I'm feeling much better." "You're telling me," Clark teased. "Today, she ran me ragged out there, I swear..." "Yeah, save it for someone who doesn't know you so well," Lois retorted, leaning towards him, and the look that passed between them was almost a kiss. Opal averted her eyes so as not to invade their privacy. "Well, shall we have dinner? It's right this way. And then afterwards," she added, unable to resist the hint, "Clark will have to show you the view from the roof." **** True to her word, after dinner, Aunt Opal gracefully withdrew, urging her guests to explore the rooftop for as long as they liked. Clark led the way, holding Lois's hand, just to remind himself that she was fully here, this time. As they walked out onto the small porch, Lois looked around happily. "So this is the view you were supposed to show me ... seems like the same view as last time." "With one major improvement," Clark couldn't resist adding. He hadn't wanted to pressure Lois at all -- taking their time to get to know one another was very sensible -- but he'd found to his delight that she enjoyed a teasing flirtation. She grinned at him, then turned to lean on the railing, looking out over the city. "It is better, this time," she admitted. "I mean, I really do miss the flying; that was amazing ... but all in all I think I'd rather be alive." "No argument here," he agreed, content to stand beside her and survey the lights of Metropolis. By now it was a habit to approach her from her uninjured left side; he fleetingly wondered if that pattern would continue long after she healed. The thought, and the assumptions contained in it, made him smile. After a second, she moved closer to him, resting her head on his shoulder, and his right arm reached up to encircle her waist. "It's peaceful tonight," she observed, then slanted a glance upwards at him. "Right?" For a moment, Clark expanded his senses, listening more than looking for trouble. "Everything seems quiet," he reported in satisfaction. "Mmm, that's good." His lips twitched. "Are you sure you're an award-winning journalist? I thought you were supposed to hate it when nothing was happening." Lois laughed. "If it continues, yeah ... but I think I can manage to enjoy an evening off, now and then. It's been a busy week ... it's nice to have some time just to relax." "True." For a moment longer, he surveyed the view, until curiosity began nagging at him. "I've been wondering ... what was the deal with that whole ghost thing, anyway? I mean, I've read a little bit about psychic projection and astral voyages, but I got the impression that you had to do that on purpose." "I don't know," she admitted. "I've been thinking about it, though. All my life, I've had a pretty good intuition. I mean, part of it was self-defense, because I had to know when Mom was going to be drunk, just so I could take care of myself and Lucy ... but sometimes I've known things, and I didn't know how. Mostly I just told myself was reporter's instincts, and didn't spend too much time worrying about it." A stray memory surfaced, and he frowned, trying to remember more clearly. "You know, there was something ... when I first started, Ginny was telling me a little bit about you ... she said that she thought you were psychic. I thought she was kidding." "Hmm." Lois let that pass without comment. "Well, all I know is, when I thought I was dying, the thing I wanted most in the world was to get back to Metropolis. I guess when my body went unconscious, my spirit took off ... or maybe it took the coma to do it, I don't know. I think I was still drawing on my body's energy, which is why I kept blacking out -- I'd just exhaust myself." Clark leaned his head towards hers, just enough to rest his cheek lightly on her hair. "It always scared the heck out of me when you'd fade out. I was afraid you wouldn't come back." "I didn't like it much, myself," she admitted. "You know, I think I could have come out of that coma days earlier, if I'd only known." "Really? Why didn't you?" "Because it would have hurt. And I didn't realize that was what was going on. By the time I figured it out, it was almost too late." They shared a shiver at that dreadful prospect, but Clark found that he didn't want to dwell on their near-miss. A world without Lois was too empty to contemplate. "I guess we'll never know how it happened, will we?" "Probably not," she sighed. "Hey, maybe your Aunt Opal had it right all along ... maybe it was a miracle." "Maybe it was, at that." He wasn't sure what to think, and he tried to resign himself to never figuring it out. "Well, whatever it was ... I'm glad it happened." She smiled up at him briefly. "Me, too." Another companionable silence fell. "So, think you could do the out-of-body thing again?" he asked, curious in spite of himself. "I still don't know how I did it in the first place. And besides ... I mean, some of it was pretty fun, but ... I'm not sure I'd want to risk it." "Hmm, good point." Lois turned in his arms, resting her side against the railing, and he turned to face her. "Never mind that, let's talk about something more fun." He grinned. "Your wish is my command." "Well, we agreed to do the dating thing...." She looked down, then up again through her lashes. "So when do we have our first real date?" Clark felt his pulse rate quicken at the invitation he saw written on her face. "You mean, like when we both dress up and I take you out to the nicest restaurant in the city? Name the time, Lois; I'll be there." A smiled played on her lips. "Well, actually, I think tonight was pretty nice. Your aunt is a good cook, and the view *is* spectacular..." Clark began to smile. "Can't argue with you there ... Lois, I haven't wanted to pressure you--" She cut him off by touching her fingers to his lips. "Clark, I'm a big girl; I can make my own boundaries. And I happen to think that after a nice dinner in a nice place, a relationship could pick up a little speed..." She removed her fingers, placing her hand on his shoulder instead as she leaned in, and, illustrating her point, kissed him. The kiss was gentle, almost tentative, nothing like the desperation-tinged caress they'd exchanged during their mutual flight. Taken by surprise, Clark barely had time to respond before she pulled back, just far enough to see him. Her eyes searched his face, seeking reassurance. Clark smiled. "I see what you mean," he murmured, raising a hand to caress the side of her face. "Good idea." He leaned in and kissed her back, opening his mouth to deepen the kiss as she responded enthusiastically. Clark reminded himself to be careful of her injured arm, but thought was becoming difficult as the sweetness rapidly warmed up to passion. Dredging up the reserves of his willpower, he broke the kiss before he lost all control, and rested his forehead on hers. "Let's ... not get carried away." Lois shifted in his arms, trying to move closer, but then winced. "Damn broken bones," she muttered. "Okay, maybe we can hold off for a little while." He smiled tenderly. "Hey, we don't have to be in a hurry -- we have the rest of our lives." For a moment, he tensed, remembering too late that she was wary of any such permanent declarations. Her wince faded into a dreamy smile. "I can't believe I'm saying this ... but I like the sound of that." He relaxed, pleased at their mutual progress. They still had a long way to go, but now he was certain they would get there, in the proper time. "Well, let's just enjoy the moments, as they happen." "Hmm, good plan." Carefully, she moved closer to him again, and they found a way to hug without disturbing her injuries. Clark looked out over the city, cherishing the feel of the woman in his arms. He knew this couldn't last; he might have to leave at any time to be Superman, and she would have to go home to sleep pretty soon, in any case ... but for the moment, he felt privileged just to hold her, secure in the knowledge that this time, she wouldn't just disappear. THE END -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:44:29 -0500 Reply-To: cndcherry@mindspring.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: --- Subject: Re: OT: Wag the Dog - WAS International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy, you'll have to take this with a grain of salt, because I haven't seen the movie. But it sounds like to me that they are using 'firefly girls' as a fill-in for girl scouts (brownies, cadets, etc) or bluebirds (Are there still bluebirds?) --a youth organization for volunteer work and instilling good values and so forth. I assume the producers did this to avoid nasty lawsuits and all, because of course any real organization along the lines of the girl scouts organization would probably strenuously object to even a fictional member being involved in sexual misconduct. at least that's my take on it cerise At 9/13/00 2:45:00 PM, you wrote: > >Kathy, you asked for context for my Wag the Dog query. The reference is >from a scene near the start of the film, where the Presidential aides are >at an airport and they see a TV news about a sex scandal at the White >House. Apparently a group of teenage girls (Firefly Girls?) were on a White >House tour and the President had one of them in the room behind the Oval >Office. It's not spelt out, but the inference is of, at the very least, >sexual impropriety. The newsreader refers to the 'firefly,' or >perhaps 'firefly girl', and the incident is subsequently referred to as the >firefly incident. > >At least, I'm pretty sure that the word I heard was 'firefly'! > > >Wendy > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:57:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:21:15 +0100, yconnell wrote: >I'd say the usual custom in the UK is a duvet inside a duvet cover and >nothing else - it's certainly what everyone I know does. Ah, this makes more sense then. At the risk of sounding like a total slob -- which I don't think I am -- I really blinked when Wendy said she washed her duvet cover every week or so. We wash our sheets that often, but not the comforter! That gets washed ... well, gee, not that often. But again, you never really touch it with your body, because the top sheet is always there. (As for the top, we don't allow the dog on the bed, and we don't really use our bed for much except when we're in it! I might occasionally sit on the edge to watch television, and I'll use it as a table when sorting and folding laundry, but that's about it.) Also there is another term for something slightly different -- a "bedspread", which can be more decorative than useful. They are usually thinner than a comforter and not as soft and cuddly. This is what most American hotels use -- they have a top sheet, a soft blanket or two, and then the bedspread on top. I usually just push the hotel bedspread away and don't use it as a covering unless I'm cold. Some of this may be semantics -- as has been aptly pointed out, even with the US, there are widely different meanings for the same word (e.g. soda) -- but if you've traveled through the US and stayed in hotels, you've probably come across these and have noted they are not the same as a comforter. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:01:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: mIRC On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:54:20 -0700, Vicki Krell wrote: >I really need to learn how to get onto IRC sometime.... Yes, Vicki, you do. I'm pretty sure I've expressed that same sentiment in our private emails. :) /me coaxes ... this weekend would be a perfect opportunity ... Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pat Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James wrote: > Oh Christy, write it! Write it! I loved the Avengers growing up. I > thought Steede and Perty ??spelling?? where tops! Perty? What about Peel? I was about to say that Mrs. Peel was on the *original* series, until it occurred to me that there might be some Honor Blackman fans on the list ;) Pat (who can't believe she's really forgotten the name of Honor Blackman's character, and had to look it up :p ) peabody@mcs.com pattijean@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:33:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: kubitc Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Oh Christy, write it! Write it! I loved the Avengers growing up. I >> thought Steede and Perty ??spelling?? where tops! > >Perty? What about Peel? I was about to say that Mrs. Peel was on the >*original* series, until it occurred to me that there might be some >Honor Blackman fans on the list ;) I wish I had time to finish it, but I don't write strong A plots and the story, the way I was envisioning it, really needs a strong A plot. Most likely I will finish it some day, but I'm engrossed with Martha Chronicles 3 right now, and don't want to think too much about A plots, or it'll ruin my concentration It is Steed and Mrs. Peel (at least it is in my fic). I know Steed had other partners and I'm not sure of their names; I only discovered the TV series after the (icky) movie was released a few years back, so I've just seen the Mrs. Peel episodes. Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." -Michaelangelo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:35:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Marnie Rowe Subject: Re: NEW: Tryst (14/14) Conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam, I did not notice any flaws and I just wish that you had elaborated more on the *story* that they had prepared for knowing each other more and well I wanted more humiliation of Bertie... I am vicious what can I say Anyway I liked this very very much and hope to see more from you in the future. Marnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pam Jernigan" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 8:35 PM Subject: NEW: Tryst (14/14) Conclusion > Title: Tryst > Author: Pam Jernigan > Rated: PG > Part: 14 of 14 > Feedback: Let it all hang out ;) -- anything goes > Summary: Not even Lois's death in the Congo will keep our favorite > couple apart for long, in this Elseworld tale... > > **** > > ...one week later... > > **** > > Lois's real return to the newsroom was much more enjoyable than her > ghostly return had been, just two weeks before. This time, everyone > noticed her, and most had a smile or a happy greeting. She took her > time talking to everyone, not at all anxious to return to the days when > it was normal for her co-workers to ignore her. > > She looked around the crowd, searching for Clark's friendly smile. > They'd spent a lot of time together, this past week. The more she got > to know him, the more she liked him, which was unusual enough -- but > even stranger was the fact that he seemed to like her, too, even in real > life. She wasn't used to that yet, but she liked it, and she was > looking forward to working with him. > > They had spent a lot of time deciding what their work relationship > should be, since no one at the Planet had any idea they'd met before > today. Telling the full truth was out of the question, but pretending > not to know one another held no appeal. Together, they'd worked out a > story that bore some resemblance to the truth, and should adequately > explain their sudden friendship. > > Of course, that only took care of the business side of their > relationship. On the personal side, he was maddeningly diffident, > treating her as a friend, but no more. It had been disconcerting at > first; she had worried that she had finally managed to drive him off. > But then she'd realized that he was just being considerate, thinking she > wouldn't welcome his affection. She had tried to flirt and drop hints, > but he was stubbornly remaining a gentleman. Stronger measures were > clearly called for ... but first they had to get through the work day. > > "Lois!" A familiar voice from behind made her turn -- carefully, as she > still had her right arm in a sling. Her smile flattened a bit as she > realized the greeting came from Bertie, who had always enjoyed making > snide remarks about everyone. "Lois, I'm glad you're back," Bertie said > earnestly, and for once her smirk was missing. But then it returned > full-force as she steered Lois around the corner. "I've just got to > introduce you to our newest reporter. Lois, meet Clark Kent." > > The startled look on Clark's face told her clearly that he hadn't been > expecting this; judging from Bertie's smirk, the woman expected > *something* entertaining to happen from this meeting. "Clark, this is > Lois," Bertie continued smoothly, ignoring the silence of her two > victims. "Lois, Clark has been very interested in you," she confided, > as Lois began to realize what she was up to. "I think someone has a > little crush..." she sing-songed, eyes glittering in malicious glee. > > "Bertie," Clark began, looking exceptionally embarrassed, but Lois > raised a hand to stop him. Bertie was no doubt looking for some of the > famous Lois Lane verbal venom, which had been used before now to cut men > off at the knees. > > She smiled pleasantly at Clark, pretending to ignore Bertie. She'd > explain their official story to Perry in a few minutes, but for the > moment, she intended to have fun messing with Bertie's head. "Hello, > Mr. Kent, pleased to meet you." She raised her left hand for an awkward > sort of handshake. > > After a beat, Clark caught on, and smoothly raised her hand to his lips > for a barely-there kiss. "The pleasure is all mine. I've been looking > forward to working with you." > > She caught her breath as the faint kiss made her skin tingle > deliciously. "Likewise, Clark. Until this arm of mine heals, I may > need some extra assistance -- we'd have to work ... closely ... > together. Interested?" She raised a cool eyebrow, wondering how far > he'd be comfortable taking this pretense. From the corner of her eye, > she could see that Bertie's mouth was hanging open. Unfortunately, some > others had also noticed their conversation, and were moving > surreptitiously closer. > > "It would be an honor," Clark replied, his eyes dancing. "But I believe > Mr. White is looking for you...." > > She grinned. "Yes, I'm sure he is." She was almost disappointed he > hadn't wanted to flirt further, but he was clearly reluctant to step out > of bounds -- even at her instigation. "Nice to meet you," she stated > demurely before walking away, her head held high. That glimpse of > Bertie looking dumbfounded was making it very difficult not to laugh. > > She reached Perry's office, and greeted Ginny again. "Is he in there?" > > "Yep, he's been waiting impatiently for you," Ginny grinned. "But he > didn't want to let everyone know how much he missed you." > > Lois smiled. "I understand." Quietly, she opened the door to the > office, and slipped inside. "Hey, Chief, I've got this great idea for a > story..." she began, trying to lighten what suddenly felt like a very > emotion-laden moment. > > "Ha!" Perry growled, but couldn't disguise his happiness at her return. > When he'd picked her up at the airport, a week ago, he'd actually hugged > her, but today he was more restrained, remaining in his chair. "Are you > sure you're ready to come back to work? You've got more than enough > sick time coming, on top of workers' comp and I don't know what all > else. You don't need to force yourself into anything you're not ready > for." > > She shrugged, carefully, settling herself on the couch. "The doctor > says as long as I don't stress my collar bone I should be okay. And I'm > going crazy at home, Chief." Which was true enough. > > "Well, I'm going to make sure you don't overwork yourself." He eyed her > speculatively for a moment, then said, "I've been thinking ... while > you're recuperating, you could use a partner." > > Lois frowned, wondering what he was up to. Of course, she intended to > ask to work with Clark, but she'd never worked well with others in the > past, and she distrusted Perry's hesitancy on the issue. > > "It's only temporary," he hastened to add. "And if you can't stand him, > you just let me know; we'll find another way to help you out. But he's > good, and he's new, and I think you could work well together." > > Lois felt a smile building, and tried to tamp it down. "You're thinking > of partnering me with a new hire?" she asked, trying to sound insulted. > > "Temporarily," Perry restated. "He's got experience elsewhere, but he > needs that Daily Planet polish, and I know you can help him out there. > And he can help you with research, taking notes, carrying files, that > sort of thing. Honestly, he was acting a little flaky the first week, > and he's been hard to keep track of this past week, but I think he'll > work out okay once he settles in. His name is--" > > "Clark Kent," Lois supplied, taking pity on him and moving smoothly into > the official version of their first meeting. "I already met him. He > came by the apartment last week, wanting to apologize for packing up > some of my belongings -- he explained everything." > > Perry was staring at her, with an expression almost akin to Bertie's. > "You've ... met him?" > > She smiled serenely. "Yes. He's very nice. I'm looking forward to > working with him -- he showed me the story he'd done on Carpenter and > the gun-running story; it was good work." > > "Ah, well ... yes, of course. Well, good then. Okay." Perry searched > for some papers on his desk, clearly taken aback by her easy acceptance > of what he'd thought would be a hard sell. > > Carefully, Lois stood, an exercise that had gotten easier with practice, > and as her various aches had faded. "Well, if that's all ... I have a > story I want to track down." > > Perry looked up, his grouch-mask firmly back in place. "You'd better be > talking about Superman." > > She grinned. "I am." Clark had made his public debut two days ago, but > so far he'd revealed very little beyond indicating his name. She and > Clark would rectify that in their upcoming interview, which should > educate Metropolis on her newest hero. Still smiling, she left Perry's > office and headed for her desk. Of course, the Superman story wouldn't > take very long, but she also had a follow-up to the Carpenter story in > mind, and she was eager to introduce Clark around to her network of > sources. > > "Kent!" she barked, seeing everyone in the newsroom watching her in > fascination. > > Clark walked up, looking alert and amused. "Yeah, Lois?" > > "You're with me -- we're going to get the scoop on Superman." Grabbing > her purse, she started towards the elevator, knowing he would follow. > > Behind her, she heard Ginny laugh. "Oh yeah," she commented, "Lois is > definitely back." > > **** > > Opal heard the front door open and put down the pot lid. The stew, once > started, didn't require a lot of attention, which was why she'd chosen > to make it tonight for Clark and his new friend. Leaving the kitchen, > she walked down the main hall as quickly as she could, observing them > from the relative dimness of the hall. Clark and Lois were standing > close together, she noted, seeming remarkably comfortable with each > other. Lois was very pretty, apart from the sling on her arm, Opal > decided approvingly. > > "Hello, Clark," she greeted him warmly as she entered the foyer. She > gave Clark a quick peck on the cheek before turning to his companion. > "And you must be Lois." > > Clark smiled proudly, keeping one arm along the small of Lois's back. > "Yes, this is Lois Lane. Lois, this is my aunt, Opal Jenkins." > > Opal extended a friendly handshake. "I'm so glad you're here." Up > close, she could see that Lois still bore half-healed scrapes on her > face, but all in all she looked to be in excellent shape for someone > who'd been pronounced dead so recently. > > "I'm so pleased to meet you, Mrs. Jenkins," Lois replied, with a wide > smile. "Clark's told me a lot about you." > > Opal laughed softly. "He hasn't told me a lot about you, but what I > have heard has been very intriguing! And of course I've read your work, > so it's a pleasure to meet you finally. Please come in, both of you." > She steered them towards the front parlor and asked Lois, with a touch > of humor, "I assume you're the reason I've scarcely seen Clark this > week?" > > Clark winced. "I'm sorry, Aunt Opal, I didn't realize I was spending so > much time away." > > She waved a dismissive hand at him. "Pish tosh. I'm sure you've had > your reasons." > > "It is partly my fault," Lois confessed, "although the whole Superman > thing has been hectic, too." > > That decidedly ambiguous comment made Opal pause. She hadn't had much > chance to talk to Clark this week, particularly after Superman had begun > making himself conspicuously helpful. As far as she knew, Clark had > never shared his secret with anyone outside his closest family; would he > have revealed himself to a woman he'd only just met? And an > award-winning reporter, at that? On the other hand, he was looking > completely besotted, whether he knew it or not, which may have affected > his judgement. She found herself wishing that she'd returned Martha's > call today, daytime rates or not. She arched an eyebrow at Clark, > hoping he would clear up this confusion. "I suppose you've been trying > to get the story there, have you?" > > Lois grinned. "We got the definitive interview today -- it'll be > tomorrow's front page news. Personally, I think he's a hit." > > Clark was looking concerned. "Aunt Opal, did my mom call you? I > thought she was going to." > > Opal sighed. "There was a message, last night, but I haven't called > back yet -- I knew I should have." > > "Ah, well ... Lois knows all about Superman." He shuffled his feet > guiltily. "The costume was her idea, actually." > > Opal took that in silently for a moment, and considered being annoyed at > having been left in the dark. Of course, it was partly her own fault, > for being stingy with her phone bill. Besides, it was about time Clark > put his gifts to good use. She turned to Lois with a smile. "Thank > you, my dear. I think it's a splendid idea." > > Lois smiled wryly. "I'm glad you think so; Jonathan about spit when we > first told Martha and him about it. But then, he wasn't too happy about > me knowing about Clark, either -- at least not at first." > > Clark reached out to hold her hand. "He's always been protective of > me," he explained quietly. > > Lois looked at him, lacing her fingers through his. "I know that, > Clark; it's okay." She laughed briefly. "I'd have probably been a lot > ruder, in his place! And your mother was great." > > "So you've met them?" Opal asked, eager to hear all the details. > > Lois nodded. "Yep, Clark flew us to Kansas the other night -- see, > that's the reason he hasn't been home much lately. Between work, and > Superman, and babying me, he's been booked up." > > "Not to mention side trips to Kansas," Opal commented dryly. > > "Well, only the one ... we needed someone who could sew, and Clark said > his mom used to do good Halloween costumes when he was a kid." > > "Yes, she's always been handy at that sort of thing," Opal replied > vaguely; although that sort of hand work had been much more emphasized > when she was growing up, she had never taken to it, and had in fact > always striven to avoid it. "I take it things went well." > > Lois grinned. "Eventually. We had a few rejected designs." > > A blush began to stain Clark's cheek at the memory, to Opal's vast > amusement. "Did you help out, dear?" > > "I was, ah..." her lips twitched as she sought the right term to use, "a > technical consultant." > > "Yes, she helped," Clark stated firmly, clearly anxious to move the > conversation to less delicate matters. "But we finally got the right > costume, and even Dad thought it looked pretty sharp. And now that I > have a disguise," he glanced at Lois, "I can go flying more, which is > pretty great." > > Lois glanced sideways to meet Clark's gaze and grinned slyly. "Yeah, > flying is pretty incredible ... shame I can't do it myself. Still, > flying with Clark definitely has certain compensations." > > Opal smothered a knowing smile. "Yes, I'm sure it has, dear." She > paused, then decided to risk a delicate inquiry. "You two seem very ... > close." > > Clark ducked his head. "We're friends," he explained. > > Lois was less reserved. "We're dating, he means. And we're working > together, too, starting today." > > "You're working? But your arm..." Opal gestured to the sling. > > Lois shrugged. "I can deal with it. And Clark helps. He made me take > it easy all last week, but now I'm feeling much better." > > "You're telling me," Clark teased. "Today, she ran me ragged out there, > I swear..." > > "Yeah, save it for someone who doesn't know you so well," Lois retorted, > leaning towards him, and the look that passed between them was almost a > kiss. > > Opal averted her eyes so as not to invade their privacy. "Well, shall > we have dinner? It's right this way. And then afterwards," she added, > unable to resist the hint, "Clark will have to show you the view from > the roof." > > **** > > True to her word, after dinner, Aunt Opal gracefully withdrew, urging > her guests to explore the rooftop for as long as they liked. Clark led > the way, holding Lois's hand, just to remind himself that she was fully > here, this time. > > As they walked out onto the small porch, Lois looked around happily. > "So this is the view you were supposed to show me ... seems like the > same view as last time." > > "With one major improvement," Clark couldn't resist adding. He hadn't > wanted to pressure Lois at all -- taking their time to get to know one > another was very sensible -- but he'd found to his delight that she > enjoyed a teasing flirtation. > > She grinned at him, then turned to lean on the railing, looking out over > the city. "It is better, this time," she admitted. "I mean, I really > do miss the flying; that was amazing ... but all in all I think I'd > rather be alive." > > "No argument here," he agreed, content to stand beside her and survey > the lights of Metropolis. By now it was a habit to approach her from > her uninjured left side; he fleetingly wondered if that pattern would > continue long after she healed. The thought, and the assumptions > contained in it, made him smile. After a second, she moved closer to > him, resting her head on his shoulder, and his right arm reached up to > encircle her waist. > > "It's peaceful tonight," she observed, then slanted a glance upwards at > him. "Right?" > > For a moment, Clark expanded his senses, listening more than looking for > trouble. "Everything seems quiet," he reported in satisfaction. > > "Mmm, that's good." > > His lips twitched. "Are you sure you're an award-winning journalist? I > thought you were supposed to hate it when nothing was happening." > > Lois laughed. "If it continues, yeah ... but I think I can manage to > enjoy an evening off, now and then. It's been a busy week ... it's nice > to have some time just to relax." > > "True." For a moment longer, he surveyed the view, until curiosity > began nagging at him. "I've been wondering ... what was the deal with > that whole ghost thing, anyway? I mean, I've read a little bit about > psychic projection and astral voyages, but I got the impression that you > had to do that on purpose." > > "I don't know," she admitted. "I've been thinking about it, though. > All my life, I've had a pretty good intuition. I mean, part of it was > self-defense, because I had to know when Mom was going to be drunk, just > so I could take care of myself and Lucy ... but sometimes I've known > things, and I didn't know how. Mostly I just told myself was reporter's > instincts, and didn't spend too much time worrying about it." > > A stray memory surfaced, and he frowned, trying to remember more > clearly. "You know, there was something ... when I first started, Ginny > was telling me a little bit about you ... she said that she thought you > were psychic. I thought she was kidding." > > "Hmm." Lois let that pass without comment. "Well, all I know is, when > I thought I was dying, the thing I wanted most in the world was to get > back to Metropolis. I guess when my body went unconscious, my spirit > took off ... or maybe it took the coma to do it, I don't know. I think > I was still drawing on my body's energy, which is why I kept blacking > out -- I'd just exhaust myself." > > Clark leaned his head towards hers, just enough to rest his cheek > lightly on her hair. "It always scared the heck out of me when you'd > fade out. I was afraid you wouldn't come back." > > "I didn't like it much, myself," she admitted. "You know, I think I > could have come out of that coma days earlier, if I'd only known." > > "Really? Why didn't you?" > > "Because it would have hurt. And I didn't realize that was what was > going on. By the time I figured it out, it was almost too late." > > They shared a shiver at that dreadful prospect, but Clark found that he > didn't want to dwell on their near-miss. A world without Lois was too > empty to contemplate. "I guess we'll never know how it happened, will > we?" > > "Probably not," she sighed. "Hey, maybe your Aunt Opal had it right all > along ... maybe it was a miracle." > > "Maybe it was, at that." He wasn't sure what to think, and he tried to > resign himself to never figuring it out. "Well, whatever it was ... I'm > glad it happened." > > She smiled up at him briefly. "Me, too." > > Another companionable silence fell. "So, think you could do the > out-of-body thing again?" he asked, curious in spite of himself. > > "I still don't know how I did it in the first place. And besides ... I > mean, some of it was pretty fun, but ... I'm not sure I'd want to risk > it." > > "Hmm, good point." > > Lois turned in his arms, resting her side against the railing, and he > turned to face her. "Never mind that, let's talk about something more > fun." > > He grinned. "Your wish is my command." > > "Well, we agreed to do the dating thing...." She looked down, then up > again through her lashes. "So when do we have our first real date?" > > Clark felt his pulse rate quicken at the invitation he saw written on > her face. "You mean, like when we both dress up and I take you out to > the nicest restaurant in the city? Name the time, Lois; I'll be there." > > A smiled played on her lips. "Well, actually, I think tonight was > pretty nice. Your aunt is a good cook, and the view *is* > spectacular..." > > Clark began to smile. "Can't argue with you there ... Lois, I haven't > wanted to pressure you--" > > She cut him off by touching her fingers to his lips. "Clark, I'm a big > girl; I can make my own boundaries. And I happen to think that after a > nice dinner in a nice place, a relationship could pick up a little > speed..." She removed her fingers, placing her hand on his shoulder > instead as she leaned in, and, illustrating her point, kissed him. > > The kiss was gentle, almost tentative, nothing like the > desperation-tinged caress they'd exchanged during their mutual flight. > Taken by surprise, Clark barely had time to respond before she pulled > back, just far enough to see him. Her eyes searched his face, seeking > reassurance. > > Clark smiled. "I see what you mean," he murmured, raising a hand to > caress the side of her face. "Good idea." He leaned in and kissed her > back, opening his mouth to deepen the kiss as she responded > enthusiastically. > > Clark reminded himself to be careful of her injured arm, but thought was > becoming difficult as the sweetness rapidly warmed up to passion. > Dredging up the reserves of his willpower, he broke the kiss before he > lost all control, and rested his forehead on hers. "Let's ... not get > carried away." > > Lois shifted in his arms, trying to move closer, but then winced. "Damn > broken bones," she muttered. "Okay, maybe we can hold off for a little > while." > > He smiled tenderly. "Hey, we don't have to be in a hurry -- we have the > rest of our lives." For a moment, he tensed, remembering too late that > she was wary of any such permanent declarations. > > Her wince faded into a dreamy smile. "I can't believe I'm saying this > ... but I like the sound of that." > > He relaxed, pleased at their mutual progress. They still had a long way > to go, but now he was certain they would get there, in the proper time. > "Well, let's just enjoy the moments, as they happen." > > "Hmm, good plan." Carefully, she moved closer to him again, and they > found a way to hug without disturbing her injuries. > > Clark looked out over the city, cherishing the feel of the woman in his > arms. He knew this couldn't last; he might have to leave at any time to > be Superman, and she would have to go home to sleep pretty soon, in any > case ... but for the moment, he felt privileged just to hold her, secure > in the knowledge that this time, she wouldn't just disappear. > > THE END > > -- > > Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net > http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam > http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ > > "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? > Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. > We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: > X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" > --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) > > The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:57:06 +1100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <01C01DD9.A823C880.yconnell@ukf.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:21 AM 14/09/2000, yconnell wrote: >I'd say the usual custom in the UK is a duvet inside a duvet cover and >nothing else - it's certainly what everyone I know does. BTW, anyone else >heard the term 'downie' for a duvet? > >Yvonne >(yconnell@ukf.net) No, but Downia is a brand of Doona, here in oz. J jenerator@free.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318 Photos of David (8) and Megan (5) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:15:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Judith Williams Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Yvonne and Wendy for solving this mystery for me. The guidebook told us how to pronounce Mousehole but not why our lovely B&B hostess there didn't give us a top sheet. Kathy B. wrote: > >I'd say the usual custom in the UK is a duvet inside a duvet cover and > >nothing else - it's certainly what everyone I know does. > > Ah, this makes more sense then. At the risk of sounding like a total slob -- > which I don't think I am -- I really blinked when Wendy said she washed > her duvet cover every week or so. We wash our sheets that often, but not the > comforter! That gets washed ... well, gee, not that often. But again, > you never really touch it with your body, because the top sheet is always > there. -----Right you are, Kathy. I have 2 huge down comforters stuffed into duvet covers. The idea of removing them to wash the covers and stuffing them back again every week exhausts me just thinking about it. Sheets are much easier. Jude ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:47:48 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Hazel Subject: Re: New FAQs! In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Wow, Kathy, *very* impressive! The hard wsork definitely shows. One question: (Perhaps the same information as in the Archive section, but including the Archive) The above sentence is at the beginning of the listserv FAQ, right after all the hyperlinks. I'm not sure what it's doing there, or even what it's sposed to mean. Was it a note to yourself that should've been taken out? :) One observation: You might want to include, on the archive FAQ, a comment that the "Themes" page is not only a very small sampling, but also a much older one. Simply adding, in parethesis, the last date the Themes page was updated ('98, I think?) would be sufficient. One comment: I am awed at the thoroughness of the Critiquing FAQ as I was when Demi first posted it. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, I imagine that most people won't bother to read the whole thing in its entirety. :( It's pretty long, after all. I'm not sure what can be done to alleviate the problem, though. One suggestion: Could you add a link to Labrat and Dawn's excellent index to the fanfic on Zoom's message boards? I think the best place would be right next to the link to the boards themselves. And finally... :) ~lots and lots of applause~ What a super job. Clark would be proud of all of you. :) :) Hazel _______ "Lots of little Bigwigs, Hazel! Think of that, and tremble!" ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:22:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences Just a final clarification... Kathy, yeah, bedspreads are over here too... the posher hotels certainly use them, and have sheets and blankets instead of duvets. And we have a bedspread on our bed! Oh, and Jude... I can promise you, stuffing duvets inside covers every couple of weeks gets very easy with practice! And when there's two of you doing it - essential with a six-foot bed - it's a doddle. :) Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:28:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences The *New* Avengers - the only incarnation I ever saw - had John Steed, Purdey (that's how it's spelt, James; we don't pronounce 't's like 'd's and 'e's like 'u's over here ;), and Mike Gambit. Joanna Lumley played Purdey; as far as I remember, the character never told anyone her first name. Sounds like an interesting idea, Christy! Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:32:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: New FAQs! On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:47:48 +0200, Hazel wrote: >One question: > >(Perhaps the same information as in the Archive section, but including the >Archive) > >The above sentence is at the beginning of the listserv FAQ, right after all >the hyperlinks. I'm not sure what it's doing there, or even what it's >sposed to mean. Was it a note to yourself that should've been taken out? :) Oops! I recognise that! I remember writing that! Kathy, how did I miss it when I checked them the other day?! Oh, I endorse Hazel's suggestion about including a link to the Message Board Index; many newbies on the boards, and those who are looking for parts of old stories not on the Archive, have said they find it extremely useful. Wendy ------------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:07:29 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: New FAQs! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hazel wrote: > Wow, Kathy, *very* impressive! The hard wsork definitely shows. > [I'll second that.] > Could you add a link to Labrat and Dawn's excellent index to the fanfic on > Zoom's message boards? I think the best place would be right next to the > link to the boards themselves. [And don't forget The Lurker, who set up and maintains that wonderful website. :) Thanks, Hazel. GMTA - Kathy has already generously agreed to this for the next update of the FAQs. ] > LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:13:02 +0100 Reply-To: LabRat Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: LabRat Organization: LabRat Subject: Re: New FAQs! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy wrote: > Oh, I endorse Hazel's suggestion about including a link to the Message > Board Index; many newbies on the boards, and those who are looking for > parts of old stories not on the Archive, have said they find it extremely > useful. > This'll teach me to read all list messages before firing off replies. ;) Thanks for the endorsement, Wendy. Yes, it has been phenomenally successful and a lot of fun to maintain. Hopefully, with a link in the FAQs, newbies will become aware of its existance *before* they trawl through several dozen boards to find part 3 of X, rather than after! LabRat :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:14:04 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Nicole Wolke Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Folcs, I'm probably way too late to join the fascination discussion, but I just *had* to respond to something Wendy wrote: > Now, this is not what I meant. I hope I'd be one of the last people on this > list who could be accused of wanting to 'dumb things down.' It's got > nothing to do with dumbing down, and everything to do with promoting > understanding and making an international audience feel welcome. And I'm > here talking about an international *English-speaking* audience; I know > there are further problems with readers whose first language is not > English, and I don't pretend to have any solutions there. As a member of the non-native-speaking group of Folcs, I have to say that IMO there's no solution necessary, since actually there's no problem at all. Since we don't know a lot of terms anyway, it makes no difference if the writer uses UK or US english. I admit, most of the time, I can't even tell the difference . I know that there're spelling differences and have my own spell-checker turned to american english. I also know that my vocabulary is probably more american, since I got most of it by watching American movies and reading Lois and Clark Fanfiction, but the fine differences between using "homely" and "homey" or "pants" and "trousers" would probably totally slip my attention, since I don't read stories like a native-speaker anyway. Since I never translate stories in my mind and never use my dictionnary, not even when I'm writing myself (okay, I'm too lazy to do that ) I'm pretty much used to read over a few words without really knowing what they mean and I'm used to just put them into context and read on. If I read them often enough I get the meaning someday and start using them myself and if not, I'll just forget about them. I'll probably never know what a candystriper is, for example , unless there will be a lot of candystriper-stories in the nearer future. ;-P As a non-native writer I must say though: Don't ever think about trying to change your writing language out of a sense of politeness to the audience! I *know* what it means to have limited language abilities to write and I can tell you, it can be very frustrating. An english story of mine will never be as good as it is in German, since my english, though I think it's not bad, will never be my native language. Creating the images I want my readers to see, by using *my* words though, is the most exhilerating part of the writing process though, so willingly putting any limits on your language, for me, feels very wrong. Of course all dialogues have to be "in character" though, not matter where the author comes from. Lois and Clark talking british is just out of character and IMO if they talk it should be *their* words and not the author's anyway. BTW, Lois and Clark talk very american in most of the German stories I know, too, and if they don't I tend to frown or to stop reading the story. Nicole -- AKA CKgroupie on IRC NKWolke@t-online.de Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain? And don't you have the time to go and find them? Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page" http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:24:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/ Subject: Re: NEW: Tryst (14/14) Conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LOL, Marnie! Sorry I wasn't more bloodthirsty for ya ;) (It's Clark's fault; he's just too polite!) As for their cover story, I think the less said, the better ... they met, and they hit it off ... the possibility is there that they've spent a lot of time together (which of course, they have) so any little conversational slips they make shouldn't be a big deal... But I'm glad you enjoyed this ... and I will definitely be writing more, I just don't quite know what, yet. :) -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:45:58 -0500 Reply-To: truitt22@flash.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: timothy truitt Organization: tnt technical services Subject: Re: New FAQs! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Thanks for all your hard work. merry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:45:05 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Vicki Krell Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Should I even ask what a "doddle" is? Vicki (ducking...) Vicki Krell Sponsored Projects Officer Office of Research and Creative Activities Arizona State University (480) 965-2171 (480) 965-1703 - fax Vicki.Krell@asu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Wendy Richards [mailto:wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 2:22 AM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences Just a final clarification... Kathy, yeah, bedspreads are over here too... the posher hotels certainly use them, and have sheets and blankets instead of duvets. And we have a bedspread on our bed! Oh, and Jude... I can promise you, stuffing duvets inside covers every couple of weeks gets very easy with practice! And when there's two of you doing it - essential with a six-foot bed - it's a doddle. :) Wendy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:21:24 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/ Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Back to the question, as clarified very helpfully by Kathy: How should a > writer *react* when informed that their word choice might not be understood > by 100% of their readers? Chiming in late, as per usual... I think questions about specific words should be considered the same way an author handles all other questions, be they about plot points, characterization, etc. I think up stories to amuse myself; I write them and post them in order to *communicate* -- when someone has to ask, I presume that it's because I haven't been as clear as I could have been. So, I need to further explain the character's actions, give more detail to the plot, or modify a culture-specific word or phrase (either by changing it entirely, or explaining it within the story, as in the examples already given) ... I do sometimes look at a question and decide that, no, I like it how it is, but in general, I *want* to be understood by the greatest amount of readers possible. I am American (although I enjoy picking up phrases from everywhere) so the way this issue usually affects me is less culture-specific things, than "big" words. In one fanfic, I used the words "efficacy" and "physiology" in the same sentence I may have been talking over some reader's heads, but I think the meaning was clear in context, and I don't recall ever getting any questions about it. I have been challenged on some other occasions, though ... I don't want the reader to have to stop reading and run for a dictionary; that sucks all the fun out of the story. On the other hand, I like those big words, and sometimes they fit perfectly, and if the meaning can be figured out around them... I like leaving them in. There, I admitted it. :D -- Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/ "Here is the end of the alphabet, see? Just three little letters left: X, Y, and Z. We need these three letters, says Larry, to say: X-ray the Yellow Zucchini today!" --Bob & Larry's ABC's (a Veggiecational book) The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:15:18 +0100 Reply-To: "yconnell@ukf.net" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: yconnell Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pam, give me "big" words any day! Yes, don't scatter them too thickly, because then it becomes a chore to read if you happen not to know the meaning of them, but the odd well-chosen, unusual word is very welcome from my point-of-view. If I don't know what it means, and I can't get it from the context, I'm happy to scuttle off to the dictionary and expand my vocabulary. Usually, anyway, I can get the general idea, and it's just the more subtle nuance of the word which may escape me. So, keep rolling out those delicious words which make a story a joy to read :) Yvonne (yconnell@ukf.net) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:08:45 +0100 Reply-To: dom-mel@dial.pipex.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Dom Melaragni Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.0.20000914165639.00c1e880@imap.free.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > At 09:21 AM 14/09/2000, yconnell wrote: > > >I'd say the usual custom in the UK is a duvet inside a duvet cover > >and nothing else - it's certainly what everyone I know does. BTW, > >anyone else heard the term 'downie' for a duvet? I think 'downie' is a peculiarly Scottish term for a duvet. A 'doddle' is an informal term for 'something that's easy to do' Personally, I have the just the duvet inside its cover *but* I've been told by our Bedlinen buyer (because we're about to put them on our website), that's it's currently *the* thing, to have a sheet under and a blanket over it. The blanket should be folded over the bottom half which seems a little pointless to me but it's a style thing apparently. I think it's very difficult to know what words are in common use in any country around the world - or rather what's *not* in common use. Even as a Scot living in London, I manage to confuse people on a occasionally by using words which are perfectly common where I gew up but which I'd never considered particularly Scottish. The one that springs immediately to mind is 'skelf' for a small splinter that embeds itself in a finger. I think Wendy's suggestion of trying to describe an unfamiliar word is good but knowing which words are unlikely to be familiar is the difficulty. I do recall reading an amusing novel called 'Shadowy Horses' set in the Borders of Scotland where an English characer bought a Scots dictionary to figure out what was being said. My problem was that what the author said the words meant, wasn't always how I define or use them! Now to turn the focus back onto US terms, can someone please tell me what 'riding the pine' means? I keep seeing it in fantasy football reports and I'm presuming it means to keep the player benched for the week but I could be doing entirely the wrong thing! Dom ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:15:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:08:45 +0100, Dom Melaragni wrote: >Now to turn the focus back onto US terms, can someone please >tell me what 'riding the pine' means? I keep seeing it in fantasy >football reports and I'm presuming it means to keep the player >benched for the week but I could be doing entirely the wrong thing! LOL! And here's another example of even within the same country, not everyone uses the same terms. I've never heard this one. But I think your guess of what it means from the context is a good one. I'd assume the same thing from your description! That's a funny one. Anyone else? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:24:31 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Vicki Krell Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have no clue! Maybe this is because I don't like football?? Now if you ask me baseball terms, those I can probably explain. Dom, thanks for the definition of "doddle." I figured, from the context Wendy used, that it meant something like that, but the bratty side of me couldn't resist sending that silly post. :) V Vicki Krell Sponsored Projects Officer Office of Research and Creative Activities Arizona State University (480) 965-2171 (480) 965-1703 - fax Vicki.Krell@asu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Brown [mailto:kathybrown91@HOME.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 2:16 PM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: Fw: International (English) vocabulary differences On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:08:45 +0100, Dom Melaragni wrote: >Now to turn the focus back onto US terms, can someone please >tell me what 'riding the pine' means? I keep seeing it in fantasy >football reports and I'm presuming it means to keep the player >benched for the week but I could be doing entirely the wrong thing! LOL! And here's another example of even within the same country, not everyone uses the same terms. I've never heard this one. But I think your guess of what it means from the context is a good one. I'd assume the same thing from your description! That's a funny one. Anyone else? Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:45:50 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:15:18 +0100, yconnell wrote: >Pam, give me "big" words any day [snip] Oh, me too! I couldn't argue with that, since I'm the writer who taught a Washington-based quasi-political-industry person the word 'psephology' Yep, that's the study of voting trends. :) As for Pam's comments on her response to someone telling her that they didn't understand a culture-specific term, that's just the kind of thing I was hoping for when I raised this discussion. :D Interesting post, Pam. Wendy (who, through asking, has learnt the meaning of 'candy striper', 'packing peanuts', 'SUVs', and many more :)) ------------ Wendy Richards wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:43:04 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Vicki Krell Subject: Re: mIRC MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Okay, I just downloaded it here, and I have to do that at home, but now what channel do I go into?? Help!! LOL Vicki Krell Sponsored Projects Officer Office of Research and Creative Activities Arizona State University (480) 965-2171 (480) 965-1703 - fax Vicki.Krell@asu.edu -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Brown [mailto:kathybrown91@HOME.COM] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:02 PM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: mIRC On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:54:20 -0700, Vicki Krell wrote: >I really need to learn how to get onto IRC sometime.... Yes, Vicki, you do. I'm pretty sure I've expressed that same sentiment in our private emails. :) /me coaxes ... this weekend would be a perfect opportunity ... Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:02:35 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Lorie Y. Crisp" Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 09/13/2000 7:16:31 AM Central Daylight Time, w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes: << "She dialled 999 with shaking fingers." [Okay, I know it's 911 in the US/Canada, but I believe the 999 variant is sufficiently well known] >> Hmmmmmm......I did NOT know that.....lol. Oh well, learn something new everyday, I suppose :-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:52:38 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Ann E. McBride" Subject: Re: International (English) vocabulary differences MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/14/00 5:12:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dom-mel@DIAL.PIPEX.COM writes: << Now to turn the focus back onto US terms, can someone please tell me what 'riding the pine' means? I keep seeing it in fantasy football reports and I'm presuming it means to keep the player benched for the week but I could be doing entirely the wrong thing! >> Well, "riding the pine" actually means a player doesn't get to play. Frequently it refers to a player benched for the week, or a particular game (perhaps due to some infraction of team rules, or poor play or attitude) but it is also used to refer to players who sit on the bench (typically made of pine) just because they have fewer skills and less talent than other players on the team. In my part of the US, the expression is used in any team sport in which there is a bench; so football, soccer, volleyball, baseball and basketball could all have players "riding the pine." Ann