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Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:54:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Marnie Rowe <Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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Why write... well so many ppl have already said a lot of the things that I
was going to, but I always liked to re vamp novels that I was reading and I
always had a fasicnation with the other than normal types of situations and
ppl.

Yes I am a Superhero fanatic from WAY back <g> I saw the original Superman
movie with Christopher Reeves with my father and two sisters when i was just
the tender age of eight. i was hooked from there, and then the different
shows i would watch religiously, those that I could get out in the boondocks
with no cable available...

But what prompted me to write was that I had some truely wincing moments
while watching the show and I had to at least try to fix them, but then I
saw all the fanfiction, i stumbled onto it after I had written some of my ep
rewrites and so i scrapped them as had been done.

 But since by  then i had some new ideas and decided that I would try to put
them on paper so to speak. i was very upset when the show ended when it did
and how it did, i am not fond of the end of season cliffhangers and that was
the absolute worst thing to happen in my mind, I need closure if you
understand that.

 I may not write what other ppl are interested in but I get some feedback to
make me feel pretty good. I am another that firmly believes in all feedback
being positive, after all if you are not sure about a plot point and you do
not get the 'wait and look, I am not sure...' then how are you going to know
what to change. Feedback has the benifit of being a distancer for the
writer, you get too close to the story and you cease to see the flaws, kinda
like your nose goes numb after a bad smell bombards you for a while<g>
 I don't know if this will make sense to the other ppl on this list but
there you go

Marnie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:33:42 +0930
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Jill Kaye <tjmckaye@OCTA4.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
In-Reply-To:  <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L%2000082809562937@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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>On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT, Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:
> Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
>>show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
>>Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
>>screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.
>
>OK, this is when we need Zoom. <g>  Maybe if I send her a copy of this
post,
>she'll be able to answer. <g>
>
>Kathy

"Flying Superman Express" was used on the show. I can't remember exactly
when, but I think Clark was saying that he was going to get Lois' parents
by "Superman Express".
~Larissa~
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:06:03 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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Wendy you really do come up with interesting questions.  Like Yvonne I ca=
n
hardly be considered a new writer; has it really been 2 years since I fir=
st
started writing fanfiction?  =

I began writing, like some of the other L&C writers, to fill in the void
that the cancellation of the show created for me.  But unlike many of the=

other writers I have never written a re-write or a revelation story; so
many other writers do that so well.   What motivated me was to continue t=
he
story of the lives of Lois & Clark where the series ended and so my 'Fami=
ly
Kent Series'.  =

I recognise too that I am more a plot orientated writer.  I find that I c=
an
write action/drama pieces much better than I can introspection and though=
t
provoking stories.  So far I think that most of my ideas have been
original, but someone out there might know differently.  But I expect tha=
t
it's easier with 'next-gen' stories to come up with new ideas.

I'm not sure whether I can answer the question of where my plot lines com=
e
from.  Quite often I wake up with an idea in my head which I can't shake
and very quickly the plot developes.  Then too I find when I'm writing th=
at
my characters suggest side plots which are woven into the main storyline.=
 =

Which is the reason why my stories become fairly involved and usually qui=
te
long.  I love working out the intricacies of a plot.  =

I  enjoy developing the main characters as they grow older and face
different challenges but still keep them true to their original selves as=

they appeared in the series.  I'm not sure if I do this successfully, but=

that is my intention.

But I also find it a challenge to invent new characters and I'm
particularly pleased if the readers find these new characters interesting=
.

As some of you will know, I have started a new series which takes our
favourite couple into a totally elsewhere world, the planet of Krypton.  =
I
was thrilled to find that you readers liked my world and the people who
lived there.  In this story the only premise I set myself was to keep the=

characterisation of a younger Lois and Clark, but other than that I could=

let my imagination take flight.  Thankfully most folcs seemed to enjoy th=
e
trip and I promise to return to Krypton very soon.

So I write because I have found that for a time I am transported out of m=
y
own lifestyle with its highs and lows and I become involved with other
problems and challenges where the only boundaries are my own imagination.=
 =

And a wonderful bonus is when readers take the time to send fdk.

Yours Jenni Debbage =

   =
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:15:55 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Grammar Question (and her own question :)
In-Reply-To:  <NDBBJNGDOLAFBFIDNGLDCEGPCLAA.erink@ida.net>
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Washington State University, the University of Alberta - yes, you are
right, that's when you capitalize it... But it has to be part of a name.
And 'the' is not capitalized.

On another topic - can this list accept attachments? I was riding the buses
today and lo and behold, there was the 'Kent House' - I grabbed my camera
and got a picture, and would like to share it with the list, once it's
developed, if attachments are okay. If not, I'll post it on my website, I
guess...

Melisma (grinning maniacally, here under her rock)

At 01:36 PM 28/08/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>I know some of you said you hated these grammar questions on list, but I'm
>sorry, I can't help it.  <g>
>
>When do you capitalize 'university'?  I'm thinking that it wouldn't be
>capitalized if you were generalizing:  a university, which university...,
etc.
>But if it has 'the' in front of it (i.e. corruption in the university...),
>then it would be capitalized, right?
>
>If anyone can help me out with this, I'd appreciate it.  :)
>
>Erin  :)
>__________________
>erink@ida.net
>Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
>             *****
>"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
>__________________
>
>
Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:45:14 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      What is your favourite type of story?
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Wendy's 'why write' question has gone over really well
with lots of responses to it, so I thought I would ask
another.

What is your favourite type of story and why?  What
ones do you skip over and why?

And, I guess if I want others to answer this, I better
do the same.

I have a lot of favourite type stories.  I enjoy
stories that focus on the secondary characters in new
and unusual ways, for example, Christy Kubits
wonderful series about Martha and how she came to
marry Jonathan.

I like episode rewrites as that's a way that episodes
that I really don't like very much suddenly start to
make a lot more sense - Chris Carr's 'So That's What
You've Been Hiding' which rewrites part of
Resurrection springs to mind as an example.  And of
course, there's Wendy's 'That Super Man of Mine' and
'It Happened One (Super) Night'.

(Actually any of Wendy's stories are favourites of
mine!)

Alt-stories are definitely favourites, and there are
so many good ones of this type - Jeff Brogden's TUFS
episodes, Hazel's 'The Mirror Cracked', Zoom's 'Always
Something There to Remind Me', Georgia's 'Alt Shook
Up' and so many more.

I like next-gen stories (which is a very good thing as
I've written so many of them!).  Christy Kubit and
Jenni Debbage's next gen stories spring to mind as
good examples.  Also, Cindy Leuch's stories and she's
a brand new writer as of this summer.

Stories that I don't enjoy - deathfics on the whole.
There are exceptions to this like Tank's wonderful
Future series and Becky Bain's newest (the name
escapes me at the moment, sorry.)

I don't particularly enjoy cross-overs as much of the
time, I have no idea what the other show is all about.
 Again, there are exceptions as in the excellent
'Timeless' by Becky Bain.

I tend to skim over or avoid stories set on Krypton or
New Krypton.  I'm not really sure why.

This has been very long so I'll stop now.  I'm looking
forward to reading others' responses to this.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:46:24 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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Well, there have been so many fascinating responses, that I thought I'd toss
in my two cents, too.  <g>

 Wendy asked:
> So... leaving aside the question of how it is that our new authors are
just
> so *good,* what I want to know is what motivates new authors to write. I
> mean, here's a TV programme which has been off the air, apart from
repeats,
> for three years. Most people, aside from the fandom, will have forgotten
> about it and moved on to the next new show.
 So what gave you the incentive to start writing? Had you written in other
fandoms and decided to try your hand here?  Or was this your first
introduction to fanfic writing, or indeed any fiction-writing?

I'm not really sure what started me on writing originally.  I know I started
reading science fiction and fantasy when I was fairly young (mom can tell
you how young--I don't remember!) and I vaguely remember these writing
assignments that my teachers would give us for our English lessons.  I
always got high marks and was always in the 'advanced' groups.  Then I
started plotting--and it was so much fun!  I think the first real story I
wrote was a short science fiction thing called Company Coming (which is
desperately crying to be rewritten)--with Mom's help.  Then I just kept
writing.  It got so that I was scribbling scenes in my school notebooks
during class (bad Tara! <slaps self lightly on wrist>)  Then finally, Mom
discovered either the Archive or the Message boards (I'm not sure which) and
she started talking about the writers and the stories and how she thought
she could write like that (btw, she's been writing since she was about my
age--maybe younger!).  So I dared her.  She wrote her first LnC story and I
started thinking "What if there was another Kryptonian about, like in that
Supergirl movie?"  Finally, on one incredibly slow day at that awful pizza
place I used to work at, I started writing.  <g>  When I posted the first
part, I was scared to shaking.  Then, after I'd posted it and the responses
started showing up, I was stunned by the amount of reaction.  I'd never
shown anyone but my best friend and my Mom and my teachers anything I'd
written before, so to get such positive responses from complete strangers
was truly wonderful.  It put a grin on my face for at least a week after.

 >

> And another question. We have 1400 stories on the fanfic archive, and more
> in development over on the message boards. Now, there's always a new
angle,
> as we know, <g> but do you have difficulty coming up with story ideas?
> There are hundreds of revelation stories already, dozens of alt-universe
> ones, plenty of next-gen stories, lots of episode rewrites, heaven knows
> how many falling-in-love ones... does the possibility that your idea might
> have been done before bother you, or do you just write it anyway? (I'm not
> making a judgement here; I'm simply curious).

Not really.  I've never written a revelation story (and currently have no
real plans to do so--not unless I can come up with a truly original way to
do so.  It's been overdone, imho).  I'm not sure if I'm ever going to write
an alterniverse story or an ep re-write.  Definately not a falling-in-love
one (I'm not really good with the emotions yet--I'll have to work on it a
bit).  From what I've seen, there haven't been many stories that introduced
a new Kryptonian--especially not like I did.  Next-gen . . . does 1000 years
into the future count as next-gen?  (Ok, I'm not sure exactly how far
forward Legacy'll be, but it'll be awhile in the future.)  And I know for a
fact that there isn't currently another ST:Voyager x-over (ok, so there
aren't many who've been reading that.  So what?  Some do!)  And if I do
write a story that's similar to another, well, it doesn't bother me really.
It goes back to that "only new angles" thing again.

Um, I just realized I've babbled on enough (and probably bored everyone to
sleep), so I'll let you go back to your scheduled dose of Lois and Clark
<bg>

Tara

---
"Because you can't cotton to evil.  No sir.  You have to smack evil on the
nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say, 'Bad evil. Bad, BAD
evil.'"      - The Tick

Senior Master Sergeant StarKitty
 Team: SG-6 - Search/Rescue
 Unit: Sorcerers of the Tau`ri
 (at www.stargatesg-1.com)
 starkitty__@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:16:43 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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As Zoom used to say, I'm a low-maintenance fan.  I will read almost anything
on the archive if it is well written.  (one can usually tell within a few
paragraphs if it is worth the read).  I will read anything from an author
that I know I like, and anything recommended by this list, because I trust
your judgement.

I do tend to stay away from the action fics involving other superheroes,
unless recommended.  I like the story to focus on my favorite hero, not the
others.  I used to avoid next generation stories, but there have been such
great ones, that now I will read them if they fill the above criteria.

The MB's are so busy that I tend to only read something that catches my eye
from a favorite author, or if the feedback is so prolific that it indicates
something worth reading.

Kate
who is patiently waiting the continuation of Red Sky.....subtle hint.....
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:57:28 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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In a message dated 08/29/2000 3:31:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sirenegold@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< I'm looking
 forward to reading others' responses to this. >>

Well, I'd say my tastes are quite similar to Irene's (good thing as I'm her
#1 fan). <g>

But I also tend to skip over stories that are mainly song lyrics or those
that are very short (so I like your long involved ones, Jenni).

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:06:51 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: Grammar Question (and her own question :)
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> On another topic - can this list accept attachments? I was riding the
buses
> today and lo and behold, there was the 'Kent House' - I grabbed my camera
> and got a picture, and would like to share it with the list, once it's
> developed, if attachments are okay. If not, I'll post it on my website, I
> guess...
>
Sorry, Mel, they aren't. They can cause havoc for many list members. I'd
love to see it though, so, yes, please post it on your website. :)

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:52:35 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?

Good question, Irene! (though I still want to see more responses from our
newer writers).

When I first found the Archive, I was like Kate: read every single story on
there, some several times. Until recently I'd still have been able to claim
that I'd read every story, but now I'm getting just a little more choosy -
probably because the volume of fic is getting greater, so that allows me to
avoid story types I don't care for, such as Superman/Wonder Woman pairings.
<g>

Type of story I love... can I just say Chris Carr's Learning Curves is a
perfect example of the genre I love most? Set early, as Lois and Clark are
still getting to know each other, lots of angst and introspection, but some
danger and thrills as well (and a revelation <g>). So, yes, I like the angst
and unresolved sexual tension of pre-relationship stories. And I've been
really lucky there this year, with Kathy and Demi's 'epic' as well as a few
other long stories in that genre, including one by Traceylynn which is still
unfolding over on the boards.

I'm also a sucker for alt-universe stories, which is why I'm crazy about
Yvonne Connell's Fear of Discovery series, as well as other excellent
alt-stories by other deservedly popular authors - I was fortunate enough to
beta-read Carol's Connections.

Unlike many people, I do enjoy a good weepie! So deathfics are fine by me
*if* they're well-written and there seems to be some sort of purpose to them
(apart from the author exercising her/his own wish to play the martyr).
Becky's Ad Astra Per Aspera wasn't a deathfic, but still got me crying, and
I loved Tank's Future series. Christy Kubit also wrote a very touching story
set several decades into the future. Then there's episode rewrites,
revelation stories, next-gen stories, post-marriage stories, adventure and
dramatic stories... I like them all!

Actually, apart from crossovers with programmes like Star Trek (which I
dislike intensely) or others I may never have watched, my main criterion for
enjoyment of a story is 'is it well written?' By that I mean, partly,
whether the author has taken sufficient care to spell-check and use correct
grammar - a technically poor story will put me off very quickly. More
important - since stories on the Archive are edited - is the question of
whether the plot, characterisation and motivation all make sense and whether
the story flows well. If all that's right, I could read any type of story
and enjoy it.

Enough from me! Thanks for the question, Irene.

Wendy
--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 05:03:12 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Wendy Richards
<wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote:

> Becky's Ad Astra Per Aspera wasn't a deathfic, but
> still got me crying,

Ack!  Of course, Becky's story isn't a deathfic!  I
can't believe that I wrote that it was.

Sorry, Becky.  Blame it on my insomnia.  I can be
pretty out of it at 3 in the morning.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:15:03 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Fw: Attachments from lists[WAS:Re: Grammar Question (and her
own
              question :)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Forwarding this as it seems to have been intended for here and not personal
email to me, which was where it ended up. Looks like it's my turn this week,
Yvonne. <G>

LabRat :)

>From Doris Schmill:

> I find attachments from lists problematic as they take up badnwidth when
> downloading and for me personally are difficult to locate and delete.
>
> I would much prefer those files to be posted to a website where everyone
> has a choice if and when to view and download them when so desired.
>
> Just my 2 cts. <g>
>
> Doris
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:15:32 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Medical Question
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What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a concussion.  Say
striking a force field at 20 times the speed of sound...

James, who has some ideas on the next 7 parts except for the one that is
supposed to be next, argh!

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

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Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:31:54 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Marnie Rowe <Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
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Ahhhh...I believe someone hitting a force field at 20 times the speed of
sound would not result in a concussion but the melon hitting pavement
condition...just my humble opinion <g>
Other than that there is swelling in the brain cause of it rattling around,
so headache, nausea, extreme tiredness, pupils different sizes from the
other, dizziness and that is all that i can remember at the moment
Marnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "JaT" <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:15 AM
Subject: Medical Question

> What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a concussion.  Say
> striking a force field at 20 times the speed of sound...
>
> James, who has some ideas on the next 7 parts except for the one that is
> supposed to be next, argh!
>
> =====
> The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
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> Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:14:04 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Marilyn L. Puett" <no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?

When I was in high school, every English teacher had an assignment to write
a short story.  And every time I failed miserably.  Oh, I got a good grade,
but the stories were horrible.  I dabbled in poetry a bit my senior year,
but it ended after that.  It seemed that I was destined to life the life of
a reader rather than a writer.

Right after graduating from college, I got married, and my husband's new
job required him to travel a great deal.  Well, we had this silly idea that
newly married couples should be together, so I travelled with him.  We
literally were gypsies.  Everything we owned fit into our car and we would
just rent a furnished apartment wherever his next assignment was.  He was
assigned to the Atlanta field office of the government agency that he
worked for, and they published a quarterly newsletter.  So just for fun, I
wrote a little article about our unique lifestyle.  The regional manager
thought it was wonderful and asked me to polish it a bit and submit it to
the agency's quarterly journal, published at the Washington, D.C.
headquarters office.  I think he really wanted to make the mucky-mucks in
D.C. more aware of how the field operated, and this was the way to do it
without putting an employee's job in jeopardy.  After all, I was just
someone's wife!  So, thus began my writing career.  And with the exception
of a couple letters to the editor printed in TV Guide and Cosmopolitan,
thus it ended until 1990. For family financial reasons, I left the comfort
of my home and entered the corporate workforce.  I was hired initially to
be an administrative assistant.  But when the boss found out I could spell
and put thoughts together cohesively, he assigned me to handle the weekly
report that went to NASA headquarters.  And from there, I started writing
departmental procedures and developing procedural improvements.  It was all
very technical, but it honed my computer skills and introduced me to the
internet for the first time.  In 1996, I was able to retire from that and
come back home and be a "domestic engineer" once again.

I never saw Lois and Clark in its first run.  I found it on TNT, several
months before the SuperBowl marathon they had -- was that in 1998?  I got
hooked.  I'd enjoyed the George Reeves series as a kid.  And I'd seen all
the Christopher Reeve movies.  But those were about "Superman."  Lois and
Clark was about...well...Lois and Clark.  It was the relationship between
those two that hooked me.  The movies were about a superhero who developed
a disguise as a mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper.
LNC was about a mild-mannered reporter who developed a disguise as a
superhero.  Then, being the internet junkie that I am, (although I wasn't
as heavy a user then!) I started searching for information on the show.
>From the TNT site I followed links and found several sites that I liked
(this one and Zoom's being my favorites).  And then I discovered
fanfiction.  And even better.........nfic!!!  Call me a dirty middle-aged
woman, but these stories really developed that relationship I had come to
love.

Still not thinking that I could write a story of my own, I threw out
the "What If" list -- ideas that I wanted to see pursued by writers whose
works I'd read and admired.  And people actually came through.

Then suddenly, like a bolt from the blue (no disrepect to Resplendant Man
intended), the idea for my first story, "Be My Smallville Valentine" came
to me.  Perhaps I'd finally read enough fanfic and watched the episodes
enough that the characters were familiar enough that I felt comfortable
writing about them.  Somewhere, probably Zoom's MB, I made a plea for help,
and received several offers of editing services.  Those ladies have become
dear internet friends.  One of them turned me on to IRC, and well...the
rest is history.  The first "Millionaire" story came from my husband's
obsession with the TV show, and my editor informed me that I couldn't just
let it end.  I HAD to follow through, so I did.

Most of my pieces are just fun romps that explore the relationship between
two people so in love.  The "Ten Minute Challenge" was a real hoot; it was
such fun to just let my mind wander in and out of the gutter and see just
how silly this normally-reserved mother could get.  The silly revelations
were just that -- silly.  One of my SR's, however, took a little darker
turn, and with the encouragement of folc's on IRC, it became a serious
story.

And that brings me to the subject of feedback.  I agree with Ann.  I get a
real warm, fuzzy feeling when I get feedback from a writer whose work I
admire.  It just feeds the fire, so to speak.  And all feedback is
encouraging, whether from another writer or someone who is a reader only.
At age 49, I've been through enough of life not to let negative feedback
get to me too badly.  Though I agree also with _____________ (sorry, I
forgot who wrote this) that constructive criticism isn't really negative.
I look upon it as a tool for growth and improvement.

So, Wendy, I suppose I write because all the pieces finally fell into
place.  Does that make sense?

SuperMom
AKA Marilyn
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:13:16 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Dede <chickadee@AALWEB.NET>
Subject:      Re: fun snippets & vignettes
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Greetings to all.  I just joined the list (thanks Wendy for posting the =
info on the message boards). =20

Beverly wrote: And, finally, what about posting these types of snippets =
and
vignettes to the list, just for the "fun" of seeing peoples reactions to
them?

Please do post them.  While I love reading the longer stories, the =
shorter ones provide a nice break and distraction.

Dede
chickadee@aalweb.net=20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#c0e0c0>
<DIV>Greetings to all.&nbsp; I just joined the list (thanks Wendy for =
posting=20
the info on the message boards).&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Beverly wrote: And, finally, what about posting these types of =
snippets=20
and<BR>vignettes to the list, just for the "fun" of seeing peoples =
reactions=20
to<BR>them?<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Please do post them.&nbsp; While I love reading the longer stories, =
the=20
shorter ones provide a nice break and distraction.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Dede</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"mailto:chickadee@aalweb.net"><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>chickadee@aalweb.net</FONT></A> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:05:35 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kath Roden <kmroden@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Actually, I think it was also in VD.  Lois was saying that they were going
to save on airfare "thanks to Superman express"

Kath

>On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT, Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
>wrote:
>Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
>>show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
>>Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
>>screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.
>
>OK, this is when we need Zoom. <g>  Maybe if I send her a copy of this
>post,
>she'll be able to answer. <g>
>
>Kathy

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:05:50 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Dede Lienau <chickadee@AALWEB.NET>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:45:14 -0700, Irene D. <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>What is your favourite type of story and why?  What
>ones do you skip over and why?
>
While I have enjoyed reading many different types of stories since finding
the message boards and the archive, I do find that the revelation stories
are my favorite.

To me Lois and Clark stories are about Lois and Clark.  For that reason I
am not a big fan of the next-generation stories, however, I have read some
pretty good ones that I came close to missing.  Irene=92s Firestorm (I=92m
working on the sequels), Jenny=92s Red Sky (I=92m waiting for the next part
Jenny <g>) and Cindy Leuch=92s stories are just a few.

I tend to stay away from deathfic (though I don=92t think I have actually
read one yet) and any that our favorite characters get maimed in (seems I
read Tank has one out there that maims Clark pretty bad =96 sorry Tank, I
can=92t read that).

I do like the re-writes, but I much prefer the original stories and
original ideas (Pam=92s Tryst is one of my favorites so far!).

I don=92t really care for crossovers unless I know the story it=92s being
crossed with.  I happened to find Lois and Clark fan fiction because of
Becky Bain=92s Timeless story.  I was reading it because of being a B&B fan
also.

Now I wonder if I could ask a question of my own.  Is it a pre-requisite of
FOLC to never get any sleep?  I know Irene has commented that she believes
Wendy never goes to sleep, but Irene, from the times you seem to be posting
here and on the message boards, I think you never sleep either <vbg>!

Dede
chickadee@aalweb.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:12:15 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Nicole Wolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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Interesting question Irene :-)
I think I like most types of stories. I guess it's easier to say what I
don't like as what I like!

Generally I must say, I tend to loose interest in the a-plot pretty
quick and most of the time I just read over it, without really
registering. Therefor my all time favorites are stories that have
wonderful b-plots and if you ask me about the a-plot I probably have
shrugg my shoulder and won't be able to really tell you.

What I don't read are stories that keep Lois and Clark apart in the end.
In case I get the feeling the story could not end with the "happily ever
after" I turn in one of those horrible readers, who reads the ending of
a
story first. I *never* read a story where I know that Lois&Clark won't
be together in the end. There's just  no excuse for that in my L&C
universe <g>. I must say though that I just started Tank's Future-series
(after reading the ending of part three) and think I might make an
compromise in this special case. I can't read Becky's new story though
(no offense, Becky), even if I believe everyone of you who praised it
here on the list and even if I *am* curious!.

I also don't like crossovers. I think I don't ever read one, except if
there was really nothing else to read.

I really hate lyrics of songs in a story and never read them. There're
exceptions for that rule, too, though. For example did I like "Fly me to
the moon" in Demi's "Heaven's Prisoners". It's a special song in Lois
and Clark's relationship and it was worked wonderfully in the story.

I'm not a big fan of kiddie-stories. I like Lois and Clark's children
when they're old enough to talk and to fall in love (I loved Crystal's
"Full circle" for example), but when they're just so small and just so
cute, it's not my cup of tea. There are exceptions to that rule though.
I liked Sandi McDermin's "Little Man Super" very much for example.

I tend to skip over New-Krypton stories, too. I think it's because most
of the time they're too a-plot orientated for my taste. I do read them,
but they're never my first choice.

Finally, I think Elseworlds and Alt-stories are my favorite kind of
stories as a writer and as a reader. The writers don't have so many
limits there and they can abdcut you in a total new world of L&C and
still remain true to the characters.

Nicole
--
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de

Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain?
And don't you have the time to go and find them?
Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page"
http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:09:50 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kath Roden <kmroden@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>From: Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>

>As Zoom used to say, I'm a low-maintenance fan.  I will read almost
>anything
>on the archive if it is well written.  (one can usually tell within a few
>paragraphs if it is worth the read).  I will read anything from an author
>that I know I like, and anything recommended by this list, because I trust
>your judgement.

Yep, I agree with you Kate!  I will read just about anything related to Lois
and Clark!  But I have to admit that I'm *not* a fan of deathfic, especially
where Lois and Clark are concerned.  And I prefer that they get together,
not find someone else.  But that's just me.

My favorite type would be in the "falling in love" catagory, whether in
"our" world or the "alt" world.  Although I have to admit that I absolutely
loved the seasons...

Kath

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:31:10 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         James Tull <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
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Irene wrote:
I don't particularly enjoy cross-overs as much of the time, I have no idea
what the other show is all about.  Again, there are exceptions as in the
excellent 'Timeless' by Becky Bain.
[hmmm...doesn't like Crossovers]

Wendy wrote:
Actually, apart from crossovers with programmes like Star Trek (which I
dislike intensely) or others I may never have watched, my main criterion
for=

enjoyment of a story is 'is it well written?'
[Indifferent]

Dede wrote:
I don=92t really care for crossovers unless I know the story it=92s being
crossed with.  I happened to find Lois and Clark fan fiction because of
Becky Bain=92s Timeless story.  I was reading it because of being a B&B fan
also.

[2 for doesn't like Crossovers]

Nicole Wolke wrote:
I also don't like crossovers. I think I don't ever read one, except if
there was really nothing else to read.
[3 for doesn't like Crossovers.  I think I smell a trend...]

0 for liking Crossovers
1 Indifferent
3 for dislikeing Crossovers

Now I realize that this is not a representative cross-section of the list
but I am begining to suspect that I picked one of the hardests kinds of
story to sell to a not quite hostile audience.

Would that be a fair summation or am I really off base?

I realize now that I picked a show that is on the UPN network, which is
actually a network wanna be, so that is probably my worste mistake.

I'm sure it didn't help that I killed Clark in the first 3 pages either,
but I do bring him back.

James
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:44:21 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
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I like crossovers (James, tally that on your list :)), especially if I've
seen the other show being used! I've enjoyed the crossovers with X-files and
Star Trek (sorry, Wendy! ;)), Becky's with B&B, and especially with Quantum
Leap, because that's one of my all-time favorite shows.

However, I agree with what the others have said:  any story that I enjoy has
to be well written. Nothing turns me off faster than poor phrasing, grammar
or spelling, and I will usually stop reading then and there if it bothers me
so much that I can't get beyond that to focus on the story.

I love Alt stories, revelation stories, and many of the next-gen stories
that I've read. I'm not fond of deathfics, but some have been really
wonderful, so I'm willing to read a few paragraphs first to see if I want to
read the entire fic. I love it when humor and wit are used well in a story.
If Lois and Clark have great banter going on, I'm hooked.

To make what could be a really long post short, if the dialogue and
characterizations are realistic for Lois, Clark, Jimmy, Perry, Martha,
Jonathan (sorry), if there is humor and action, if there are WAFFS and some
angst (some is fine, but a ton drives me nuts!), and most importantly, the
entire story is written really well, I'll enjoy it.

Vicki (who would really like to try writing one of her own some day but is
still a bit nervous about starting)

Vicki Krell
Sponsored Projects Officer
Office of Research and Creative Activities
Arizona State University
(480) 965-2171
(480) 965-1703 - fax
Vicki.Krell@asu.edu

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of =
story?)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I like crossovers (James, tally that on your list =
:)), especially if I've seen the other show being used! I've enjoyed =
the crossovers with X-files and Star Trek (sorry, Wendy! ;)), Becky's =
with B&amp;B, and especially with Quantum Leap, because that's one of =
my all-time favorite shows. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>However, I agree with what the others have =
said:&nbsp; any story that I enjoy has to be well written. Nothing =
turns me off faster than poor phrasing, grammar or spelling, and I will =
usually stop reading then and there if it bothers me so much that I =
can't get beyond that to focus on the story. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I love Alt stories, revelation stories, and many of =
the next-gen stories that I've read. I'm not fond of deathfics, but =
some have been really wonderful, so I'm willing to read a few =
paragraphs first to see if I want to read the entire fic. I love it =
when humor and wit are used well in a story. If Lois and Clark have =
great banter going on, I'm hooked. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>To make what could be a really long post short, if =
the dialogue and characterizations are realistic for Lois, Clark, =
Jimmy, Perry, Martha, Jonathan (sorry), if there is humor and action, =
if there are WAFFS and some angst (some is fine, but a ton drives me =
nuts!), and most importantly, the entire story is written really well, =
I'll enjoy it. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki (who would really like to try writing one of =
her own some day but is still a bit nervous about starting)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki Krell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sponsored Projects Officer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Office of Research and Creative Activities</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-2171</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-1703 - fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki.Krell@asu.edu</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:06:35 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-F178YkdavN3qlj00001827@hotmail.com>
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Hi all!

First of all, I have to say how very excited I am about all of these
posts!!!!!  How wonderful to see all these discussions going on after the
list
has been quiet for so long.  :)

>From: Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
>
>As Zoom used to say, I'm a low-maintenance fan.  I will read almost
>anything
>on the archive if it is well written.  (one can usually tell within a few
>paragraphs if it is worth the read).  I will read anything from an author
>that I know I like, and anything recommended by this list, because I trust
>your judgement.

Agreeing with you too, Kate!  I remember pouring through the fanfic Archive
when I stumbled across it early second season, and I didn't sleep much those
first several nights.  <g>  But as time passed, I did find myself leaning
toward certain types of stories, and even to this day, there are stories and
permises that I'm more eager to read than others, though I'll still read any
well-written story (deathfic excluded) regardless of the premise.

I think my very favorites are revelation stories (as you can probably tell
since half of my stories are revelations in one form or another <sg>).  I
can
never seem to get enough of  them, and I guess it's no surprise that my
favorite episode is 'WHALTTA.'  I just love seeing the angst that comes from
a
revelation, and then having LNC see through the conflict to realize they
still
love each other, and end up working things out.  I know there are other
stories that follow a similar conflict/resolution premise, like Demi's
'Heaven's Prisoners,' among others, and I absolutely love those, too.  So
I'm
not really sure why the revelation aspect appeals to me since other stories
can offer the same angst and WHAMs and WAFFs, but for some reason, there's
just something different about revelation stories that appeals to me.
(Don't
ask me to explain myself, darn it! I just can't do better than that. <g>  :)

I also know that there are a lot of readers in FoLCdome who are sick of
revelation stories, but I hope that won't stop them from reading my fanfics
just because there's a revelation in there.  I promise, my fics aren't
*just*
revelations...there's a whole lot of other stuff in there, as well.  ;)

As far as other stories I like, I love the stories based in first/second
season, and deal with LNC pre-relationship, or early in their relationship.
I
also like dramatic stories, as long as they're not really heavily A-plot
oriented.  I just can't seem to get into those stories that are action
packed,
with little or no relationship plot worked in.  I guess I'm just a
relationship oriented reader.  <g>

I don't usually go for stories about next gen, or for New Krypton stories or
crossovers, but I'm finding there are definitely exceptions.  Like I said
before, if they're well written and someone recommends them, I'll read them.
For the most part, I'm pretty low maintenance, too.

The most disappointing thing to me this past year or so is that I *haven't*
been able to read much for pleasure with all that's going on in my life, and
I'm positive I'm missing out on so many wonderful, wonderful stories.  It
seems like the only ones I don't feel guilty about reading lately (with my
sinkful of dishes, piles of laundry, and demanding kids) are the ones that
Kathy sends me to edit for the Archive.  So keep those stories coming to me,
Kathy!  <bg>

Anyway, I want to thank all of you writers out there for your fabulous
stories, because I'm still very much in love with Lois & Clark (my hubby
still
rolls his eyes playfully and shakes his head when I put up a new pic of LNC
on
my wall, or refuse to take off my ever-present silver S-shield ring <g>),
and
without all of your stories, it wouldn't be as easy to keep LNC alive.

Now that I've neglected my kids long enough by writing this post, I guess
I'll
sign off and return to mom duty before they demolish my 2yr old daughter's
bedroom (which it sounds like they're doing :P)

Bye for now!

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:12:45 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <B6426E926476D411B8E800B0D03D5C1A8DD916@mainex2.asu.edu>
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>>Vicki (who would really like to try writing one of her own some day but is
still a bit nervous about starting) <<

Start, Vicki, start!!  You can see from this list that we love new writers,
and I promise we don't bite!

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:20:06 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <MPSL27@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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Hey:)

OK I'll say it.  I LOVE next-generation and early years fanfics.  I'm a
little behind on my reading right now, but I crave them and I am getting to
the point where I will beg people to keep writing them :)  I first found the
Archive when I was 15, and even though I adored the show (and still do), it
was the third season and Lois & Clark were roughly twice my age!  (LOL)  So
it was really great being able to read fanfics where the main characters
were
around my age (or a little younger) because I could relate to them, and, at
the same time, read about Lois & Clark.  :)  Back then, there weren't a
whole
lot of nextgen/early years fics, but I do remember one called "One Big Happy
Family" (I think) and its sequel, which were both very funny.  And there
were
a few stories about young Clark (which I thought were awesome), and maybe a
couple of pregnancy stories.  I really prefer light, funny next gen/early
years over sad ones, but you know what?  I've read a lot of the serious ones
(Full Circle, for example) and I LOVED them.  Just keep them coming, as long
as the plots and characters are interesting. :)

Aside from those, I love short stories!!

Mols
:D
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:23:49 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
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In a message dated 08/29/2000 10:17:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a concussion.   >>

nausea and headaches, for sure. But I'm sure someone with better medical
knowledge will respond.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:27:40 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Okay, I'll give it a shot...

I love romantic revelation stories, I admit.  It's such a defining,
important moment in their relationship, and there are hundreds of ways
to do it.  The show had to pick only one, but in fanfic we have the
freedom to do it as many different ways as we want, which I think is
fabulous.

I love alt-universe and elseworld stories ... much as I love the
original characterizations, I also have a great deal of fun playing with
variations.

Episode rewrites can be either fabulous or terrible, depending on the
author.  I do really like it when a good author "fixes" one of the many
weak points from the show.

I'm not so fond of next-gen (with some significant exceptions, like
Irene's series, which is about grown-up kids) or Krypton/NK stories ...
Kryptonians bore me, and I read fanfic to get *away* from my kids <g>  I
tend to avoid deathfic (there have been some very sweet retrospective
stories that I liked), and I try to avoid violence in fic.  Crossovers
can be fun but it's very hard to balance the story between two sets of
characters ... often times it seems like L&C aren't there to do any of
their own growing, they're just there to facilitate another couple (like
in Timeless, which I really did like, because I like Catherine &
Vincent, but still).

Actually, the kind of story that irks me the most is *any* story in
which the characters are stupid.  If they're agonizing over a problem
when the solution seems obvious to me -- or if the problem itself seems
way too contrived -- I get very annoyed, no matter what the category.
Same with tear-jerker stories (or overly angsty ones) ... I resent being
manipulated.  I don't require them to be mathematical geniuses or
anything <g> but if they're lost to common sense, or endure months of
misery rather than have one simple conversation, it just irks me.  And
that's pretty subjective, I know.

Looking forward to seeing what the rest of you say... (hint, hint ;)
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:27:06 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
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Other symptoms, I think, can be blurred vision or ringing in the ears?

V

Vicki Krell
Sponsored Projects Officer
Office of Research and Creative Activities
Arizona State University
(480) 965-2171
(480) 965-1703 - fax
Vicki.Krell@asu.edu

 -----Original Message-----
From:   No Name Available [mailto:Larus2407@AOL.COM]
Sent:   Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:24 AM
To:     LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:        Re: Medical Question

In a message dated 08/29/2000 10:17:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a concussion.   >>

nausea and headaches, for sure. But I'm sure someone with better medical
knowledge will respond.

--Laurie

------_=_NextPart_001_01C011DE.5ABE5990
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: Medical Question</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Other symptoms, I think, can be blurred vision or ringing in
the ears?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>V</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Vicki Krell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sponsored Projects Officer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Office of Research and Creative Activities</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(480) 965-2171</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>(480) 965-1703 - fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Vicki.Krell@asu.edu</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: &nbsp; No Name Available [<A HREF="
mailto:Larus2407@AOL.COM">mailto:Larus2407@AOL.COM</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:24 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Re:
Medical Question</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 08/29/2000 10:17:42 AM Eastern Daylight
Time,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&lt;&lt; What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a
concussion.&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>nausea and headaches, for sure. But I'm sure someone with
better medical</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>knowledge will respond.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>--Laurie</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C011DE.5ABE5990--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:37:20 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well, James, you might just be facing a tough room :)  But there are
people who love crossovers, so don't despair!  Just keep on writing 7DOS
for your fans... :)
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:43:49 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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I know when my teenage son had a suspected concussion, I was supposed to
wake
him up several times in the night and ask him a question to make sure he
could think clearly.  When I asked him who the president of the United
States
was and he said Darth Vader, I said, "close enough" and went back to sleep.

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:44:31 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)

James, you have to remember that just because someone likes Lois and Clark,
that doesn't automatically mean that they will like other TV programmes
which you or I might like. I know a lot of FoLC also like X-Files and Star
Trek (and its numerous variations); the first leaves me cold and the second
I avoid like the plague. So I'm not going to read crossovers with
characters from those series.

In addition, not all US TV programmes make it to other countries. Some, if
they are shown in the UK, are on minority channels or only on satellite -
and the vast majority of UK homes don't have satellite. US imports are
competing against home-grown drama, comedy etc, and there's only space for
a certain amount. It is difficult to read a story which has characters the
reader is *supposed* to be familiar with, where these characters have
interests, habits, abilities and so on which are important to the story,
when you haven't a clue what's going on.

I know you're writing a crossover with a programme called Seven Days (?) -
I have to admit that I've never heard of that. I've recently GEd a story
for the Archive which, I now realise, is a crossover with a programme
called Forever Knight: never heard of it, never heard of the character. Not
a bad story, though, once I figured out what was going on! ;)  I had
difficulty with Elaine Gustainis' stories last year, because they were
crossovers with about four or five different programmes, none of which I
had watched and some I had never heard of; her stories were good and well
written, but there were parts which left me lost.

Becky Bain's Timeless was easier for me, because I remember watching Beauty
and the Beast; however, I suspect that one would have been intelligible to
anyone who never saw B&tB.

And finally, since I've written a crossover myself it would be hypocritical
and crass of me to dismiss crossovers as a genre! (Not that I'd want to).
My very tongue-in-cheek crossover was done in response to the very US-
centric crossover stories we tend to get: I thought that it was about time
those of us based in the UK got a crossover story which *we* understood and
maybe left US fans a bit perplexed. <g>

Wendy

--------------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:47:38 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
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Yvonne wrote:
>Do I have difficulty coming up with story ideas?  I always think I'm going
>to run dry of ideas, but somehow, usually towards the end of writing one
>story, something else pops into my head and I'm sucked in again.

I know what you mean, Yvonne!  Just a year or so ago, I was ready to call my
fanfic writing "career" quits and set aside my laptop, doubting seriously
that
I could come up with any more fanfic ideas.  I was even going through the
process of deleting my 'fanfic ideas' file when I stumbled across a file
that
had some deleted scenes in it from a couple of my previous fanfics.  I
quickly
scanned through it, and one scene in particular jumped out at me.  It's now
the cell scene in Trask's basement from 'Darkest Hour.' <g>
So what started out as one rejected idea turned into a 600+k story.  :)

So what about you writers out there?  Do many of you start out with one
single
scene idea for a story and then start the ball rolling from there, like I
tend
to do?  Or am I the weird one?  :)  I find it fascinating to hear how
writers
write, and how they form their ideas and develop their stories.

>What *can* be difficult is fleshing out an idea into a story worth writing,
>because sometimes my ideas are single scenes, or even just a style of
>writing.

So *how* do you guys flesh out your ideas into stories?  And when do you
find
yourself coming up with your ideas the most?  Mine come when I'm doing the
stupidest things:  showering (eyeliner and tissue have been a desperation
notepad and writing utensil for me on occasion, I have to admit <sg>), while
shuttling kids around or writing errands, while lying in bed at night...it
seems like any time when my mind is drifting and not concentrating on any
task
in particular is when I get most of my ideas.  How about you?  When do your
story ideas surface?

I hope you don't mind me asking, even though some ppl have touched a bit on
this in recent posts already.  I just have always marvelled at the way a
fabulous story started from nothing and turned into something amazing.

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:12:23 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         James Tull <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
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On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:44:31 -0500, Wendy Richards
<wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote:

>>James, you have to remember that just because someone likes Lois and
Clark, that doesn't automatically mean that they will like other TV
programmes which you or I might like. I know a lot of FoLC also like X-
Files and Star Trek (and its numerous variations); the first leaves me cold
and the second I avoid like the plague. So I'm not going to read crossovers
with characters from those series.<<

I would never hold that against you.  I have come to the conclusion that
L&C is vastly superior to Star Trek, but will probably never reach the cult
status ST has.

Unless we write more=85

>>In addition, not all US TV programmes make it to other countries. Some,
if they are shown in the UK, are on minority channels or only on satellite
-=

  and the vast majority of UK homes don't have satellite. US imports are
competing against home-grown drama, comedy etc, and there's only space for
a certain amount. It is difficult to read a story which has characters the
reader is *supposed* to be familiar with, where these characters have
interests, habits, abilities and so on which are important to the story,
when you haven't a clue what's going on.<<

Like I said, UPN is a minority channel over here as well.  You may never
see it.  I have tried to write the story in such a way that it would not be
necessary for the readers to know the other show.  However, some of
Tank=92s=

comments lead me to believe that I haven=92t done a good job of that
either.=

>>Becky Bain's Timeless was easier for me, because I remember watching
Beauty and the Beast; however, I suspect that one would have been
intelligible to anyone who never saw B&tB.<<

Beautiful story.  I could read it over and over.  I was a big B&B fan until
it got weird in the last season or two.

>>And finally, since I've written a crossover myself it would be
hypocritical and crass of me to dismiss crossovers as a genre! (Not that
I'd want to).  My very tongue-in-cheek crossover was done in response to
the very US-  centric crossover stories we tend to get: I thought that it
was about time those of us based in the UK got a crossover story which *we*
understood and maybe left US fans a bit perplexed. <g> <<

And a wonderfully entertaining story it was!  Dr. Who is really big over
here so most of us were not lost on that aspect.  And you wrote the East
Enders[??] so well that we didn't need to really know it that well.

The rest of you non-US netizens, write crossovers with your favorite
shows!  Give us a taste of what we are missing over here!!

James
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:29:14 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         James Tull <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:43:49 EDT, Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:

>>I know when my teenage son had a suspected concussion, I was supposed to
wake him up several times in the night and ask him a question to make sure
he could think clearly.  When I asked him who the president of the United
States was and he said Darth Vader, I said, "close enough" and went back to
sleep.<<

HMSROTFLMBO (Holding My Sides, Rolling On The Floor, Laughing My Butt Off)

Truer words were never spocken (ST Slip?) spoken.

So this is what I have so far:

Headache
Nausea
Blurred vision
Ringing Ears
Dizziness

None of these will last long.  By the time Clark gets to the beach, his
recuperative powers should have kicked in.

Thanks!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:46:44 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Dede Lienau <chickadee@AALWEB.NET> wrote:

> Now I wonder if I could ask a question of my own.
> Is it a pre-requisite of
> FOLC to never get any sleep?  I know Irene has
> commented that she believes
> Wendy never goes to sleep, but Irene, from the times
> you seem to be posting
> here and on the message boards, I think you never
> sleep either <vbg>!
>

LOL, Dede!  Sometimes it just seems that way.  It's
called insomnia. :(  I get it about 2 or 3 times a
month when I've eaten something I shouldn't have or
had too much caffeine.

Not true that I never sleep.  To prove it, I'm going
to go have a nap.  That two hours I got last night
just isn't enough! :D

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:47:13 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      That terrace...
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Hey guys!

Hot in the middle of writing Lonesome, my fingers suddenly paused mid =
sentence as something occurred to me.

Namely...where is the entrance to Clark's terrace from his apartment? In =
BGDF, from the terrace looking in, Clark saw Lois sitting at the dining =
table. That would make the entrance off the bedroom, wouldn't it? Or =
would it? I've always gotten the impression from episodes that the =
bathroom is en suite, but I've never seen another door there.=20

I've never been very good at piecing these things together. I know that =
there's a video tour of Clark's apartment, but although I've dl it =
several times I've never actually managed to make it play.

So, if anyone has any ideas, I'd receive them gratefully. =
Meantime...Clark is stuck trying to find the door to the terrace so he =
can have a waffy heart to heart with Lois. <G>=20

Thanks!

LabRat :)

------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C011C8.04D9FC20
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hey guys!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hot in the middle of writing Lonesome, =
my fingers=20
suddenly paused mid sentence as something occurred to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Namely...where is the entrance to =
Clark's terrace=20
from his apartment? In BGDF, from the terrace looking in, Clark saw Lois =
sitting=20
at the dining table. That would make the entrance off the bedroom, =
wouldn't it?=20
Or would it? I've always gotten the impression from episodes that the =
bathroom=20
is en suite, but I've never seen another door there. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've never been very good at piecing =
these things=20
together. I know that there's a video tour of Clark's apartment, but =
although=20
I've dl it several times I've never actually managed to make it=20
play.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, if anyone has any ideas, I'd =
receive them=20
gratefully. Meantime...Clark is stuck trying to find the door to the =
terrace so=20
he can have a waffy heart to heart with Lois. &lt;G&gt; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LabRat :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C011C8.04D9FC20--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:54:58 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: That terrace...

Hey Rat!

>From what I understand, Clark's apartment also underwent a few changes over
the years - remember the scene in DTOSC when they're in his apartment and
Lois tries on Clark's glasses? Suddenly - for the convenience of the
script, which has that remote-controlled helicopter shooting at Clark - the
large picture window which is actually in Clark's bedroom ended up in the
living area.

For most of the series, Clark seemed to get out onto his balcony through a
door leading from the kitchen - remember ILTY, among others? But it
wouldn't surprise me if, for convenience, that entrance was shifted for
particular episodes.

Wendy
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:08:20 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L%2000082911311115@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey! I like crossovers. But it usually has to be with one of my other
eleven shows or I get lost. Well, okay, if I don't watch the other show,
but have a passing familiarity with it, that's okay too. Like, I enjoyed
Becky's B&B crossover even though I really haven't gotten into B&B. I loved
Hazel's Star Wars crossover. And, as soon as I have time I'm gonna read -
agh, sorry Wendy, what was the name of your story that crossed with Dr Who
and Eastenders? That one. I don't know anything about Eastenders but I've
watched Dr Who once in a while. So, besides the fact that it's a Wendy
story (which is one reason why I would make an exception to any rule :), it
looks promising... Tara, I'm gonna read the Voyager cross just as soon as I
get the chance, I promise. And if there are any other crosses between LnC
and B5/Crusade, XF, any of the ST incarnations, MASH, or JAG, let me know :)

I, too, am not fond of deathfic, especially when it is Lois and Clark in
their prime. I'll make exceptions for if it's set a long time in the future
and they are getting old - or if it's one of the more minor characters. Or
if you bring 'em back fairly soon on.

As far as what I like - well, just about anything else, I guess. I really
*really* like stories that take a dogleg on an episode, exploring what
might have happened if such-and-such had happened instead. I like stories
about LnC's kids, as long as we get lots of LnC in it too. (And just to
tantalize you all - I am toying with writing a series dealing with LnC's
kids and LnC married, which I'm tentatively calliing Bedtime Stories. But
first I have to finish Truth or Consequences and my first XFiles fic.
Grrr...)

Anyway, two posts from Melisma in one day, after months of lurking. Oy!

Melisma (watching the listmembers fainting from the shock of it, from under
her rock)

At 11:31 AM 29/08/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Irene wrote:
>I don't particularly enjoy cross-overs as much of the time, I have no idea
>what the other show is all about.  Again, there are exceptions as in the
>excellent 'Timeless' by Becky Bain.
>[hmmm...doesn't like Crossovers]
>
>
>Wendy wrote:
>Actually, apart from crossovers with programmes like Star Trek (which I
>dislike intensely) or others I may never have watched, my main criterion
for
>enjoyment of a story is 'is it well written?'
>[Indifferent]
>
>Dede wrote:
>I don’t really care for crossovers unless I know the story it’s being
>crossed with.  I happened to find Lois and Clark fan fiction because of
>Becky Bain’s Timeless story.  I was reading it because of being a B&B fan
>also.
>
>[2 for doesn't like Crossovers]
>
>Nicole Wolke wrote:
>I also don't like crossovers. I think I don't ever read one, except if
>there was really nothing else to read.
>[3 for doesn't like Crossovers.  I think I smell a trend...]
>
>0 for liking Crossovers
>1 Indifferent
>3 for dislikeing Crossovers
>
>Now I realize that this is not a representative cross-section of the list
>but I am begining to suspect that I picked one of the hardests kinds of
>story to sell to a not quite hostile audience.
>
>Would that be a fair summation or am I really off base?
>
>I realize now that I picked a show that is on the UPN network, which is
>actually a network wanna be, so that is probably my worste mistake.
>
>I'm sure it didn't help that I killed Clark in the first 3 pages either,
>but I do bring him back.
>
>James
>
>
Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:11:33 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <B6426E926476D411B8E800B0D03D5C1A8DD916@mainex2.asu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh, forgot to mention that one of my other regular shows that I will read a
crossover of, is Quantum Leap...

Melisma (wondering where her head is today, off to look for it, here under
her rock)

Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:15:38 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

James, I haven't responded to this particular subject, yet, but I,
personally, love well-written x-overs.  In the case of your story, it helps
that I already know a lot about 7 Days, but it's not really necessary
because of how well you have written it.  (Oh, and I trust you to not
permanently kill Clark off! <g>)

I do agree, though, that crossovers are very hard to get across here.  My
story, ToC, didn't have anywhere near as many readers and responses as my
other Maggie stories (or Cat's Paw--I'm working on it, I promise!).  I get
the feeling that not a very high percentage of folc's read or watch science
fiction (probably mostly because they think it's all about the technology
and not the people).  Oh well.

Tara
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Tull" <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:31 AM
Subject: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)

Irene wrote:
I don't particularly enjoy cross-overs as much of the time, I have no idea
what the other show is all about.  Again, there are exceptions as in the
excellent 'Timeless' by Becky Bain.
[hmmm...doesn't like Crossovers]

Wendy wrote:
Actually, apart from crossovers with programmes like Star Trek (which I
dislike intensely) or others I may never have watched, my main criterion for
enjoyment of a story is 'is it well written?'
[Indifferent]

Dede wrote:
I don't really care for crossovers unless I know the story it's being
crossed with.  I happened to find Lois and Clark fan fiction because of
Becky Bain's Timeless story.  I was reading it because of being a B&B fan
also.

[2 for doesn't like Crossovers]

Nicole Wolke wrote:
I also don't like crossovers. I think I don't ever read one, except if
there was really nothing else to read.
[3 for doesn't like Crossovers.  I think I smell a trend...]

0 for liking Crossovers
1 Indifferent
3 for dislikeing Crossovers

Now I realize that this is not a representative cross-section of the list
but I am begining to suspect that I picked one of the hardests kinds of
story to sell to a not quite hostile audience.

Would that be a fair summation or am I really off base?

I realize now that I picked a show that is on the UPN network, which is
actually a network wanna be, so that is probably my worste mistake.

I'm sure it didn't help that I killed Clark in the first 3 pages either,
but I do bring him back.

James
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:17:57 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, please, Vicki!  New writers are always welcome!

Tara
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erin Klingler" <erink@IDA.NET>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)

> >>Vicki (who would really like to try writing one of her own some day but
is
> still a bit nervous about starting) <<
>
> Start, Vicki, start!!  You can see from this list that we love new
writers,
> and I promise we don't bite!
>
>
> Erin  :)
> __________________
> erink@ida.net
> Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
>              *****
> "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
> __________________
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:20:00 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Chipmunks <chipmunks@GMX.NET>
Subject:      "Perry Knows" (part 1 of 2)
In-Reply-To:  <39ABE0DF.6222C73A@t-online.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This story is my first completed work except for the fanzine story. I
started writing it fairly soon after I discovered online fandom back in
1997. It started by having Debby Stark throw a few lines at me on irc and
then send me home to do my homework. <g> (This comes from asking a seasoned
fanfic writer how to go about writing a story ... <g>) Thus a big thanks
goes to Debby for givbing me a shove in the right direction.

Completion of this fic was delayed by almost three years as real life
intervened and I lost my sight. first I could not go on writing as I had
temporarily lost use of my computer, and then when I had adaptive equipment
to once again access it, a block remained at which might have had to do
with my writing reminding me of what I had lost. I am indebted to my
friends, especially my friend lena, who coaxed my various story beginnings
out of me and then urged and pleaded with me to take up my writing again.
She even went so far as to help me pick out one of fanfic's finest to help
me edit this beastie and making the connections there.

I want to thank the the two people who helped me work and edit this fic. it
was Debby Stark whowent over a few of the early portions of this story even
though she doesn't remember doing so anymore now. <g> And now as I
considered making this story available to you, gentle readers, Labrat
beta-read and edited the story.

Since I am writing without being able to see the screen, having editors is
essential for me since even the best spell checker won't catch misused
homophones and my ears can't either. I especially thank labrat for making
accommodations with her editing that took my special needs into account.
Thank you, I could not have done this without you!

I hope you will enjoy reading this story as much as I had fun writing it.
Your comments are welcome. You can reach me at  doris.schmill@berlin.de

Perry Knows (part 1 of 2)

Perry White stumbled on to Superman's secret identity quite by accident.
One day he was walking into the men's room at the Daily Planet and saw a
pair of red boots underneath the door in one of the stalls.

Perry realized he had entered quietly, deep in thought, so whoever it was
in the stall, whoever was wearing those very characteristic red boots,
probably didn't know he was there. He slipped quietly towards the stall to
get a closer look.

Just as he was about to bend down to peek, the door opened and a blue and
red blur flew out the window.

"Good thing we didn't have the screen and the bars put back in that yet,"
Perry thought. Then again, maybe the Man of Steel was just making a pitstop
at the Planet. Nah, Perry thought, it can't be--Lois would have told me,
she would be the first to know if Superman was around. He could picture the
front page article in his mind. "Superman Uses Daily Planet Restroom."

"You know," Perry thought, "Now that I think of it, Superman always does
seem to use the same aftershave that Clark does... They're buddies, but now
it looks like..." Where was Clark? Perry hadn't seen him on the way to the
restroom.

Perry quickly did his business and ran back out to the news room... slowing
to a stroll before anyone noticed and thought something was wrong. He
looked around. No Clark. Damning evidence. Then he spotted Lois...

He walked over to her desk. "Have you seen, Clark?" he asked casually.

"Well, he... just went to... drop a tape off we rented last night..." *Boy,
I am getting as bad at these excuses as he is* she thought.

Perry gave her a mild mannered look. "Which videos did you watch?" *I'll
ask Clark and if they don't match... I was seeing what I thought I was
seeing?*

Lois blushed. "Well actually, Perry, we never got around to watching
them..."

"Surely you got a look at them... then again, maybe not. What could you be
watching that would lead you to have a little..." he smiled. "Come on, you
can tell me. Maybe *Alice* will like the same videos."

"Well, it was that video about France... Clark has been to France..."
*Since when was Perry interested in what kind of films they watched?*

"France? That's good. I think Alice would like to go to France... maybe a
second honeymoon." He smiled, then pointed at what Lois was working on. "I
hope I get to see that finished up in... five minutes? Good."

He turned away, thinking about how he would ask Clark which video he and
Lois had supposedly watched the night before. He would watch for Clark to
return and grab him before Lois could.

*****

Lois had a feeling something was off here. Perry was a friend, but she
couldn't shake the feeling that there was something different tonight. She
would need to ask Clark about it when he came back. Where was he anyhow? He
SHOULD have been back.

She watched the elevators, hoping to see her errant husband. Instead, the
first one to come into her view was Jimmy. "Hey, Jimmy!" she waved. He came
over. She asked, "Jimmy, how are Alice and Perry getting along these days?"
After all, maybe Perry WAS just looking for some inspiration for his
renewed relationship with Alice.

"He's been trying to think of ways to get all romantic, you know? I
suggested some good videos, but he didn't seem to think that 'Speed II' was
romantic. Have you seen CK? Last time I saw him he was heading into the
men's room, but I guess he slipped out."

Slipped out was the right word. Or flown out would be better. She would
need to tell Clark to be more careful leaving the newsroom. "Well, Clark
went... to drop something off." She'd better be careful, too. At that
moment, the elevator doors opened and Clark sauntered in.

*****

Perry had been lurking just inside the door of his office. He saw Lois
rise--and then saw Clark. He stepped out. "Clark? Over here for a moment,
please? I have a new assignment for you." Clark, adjusting his tie, nodded,
smiled at his wife, and headed for his editor's office. "Yes, Chief?"

"Clark, we haven't had any good headlines on Superman for a while. We don't
want this paper to lose the exclusives there. Now I know that you guys are
really... close. I want you to take this up. And take Jimmy with you to get
some good pictures."

"Sounds good, Chief... ah, but what's the assignment?"

"To head down to that video store you rented the video from, the one you
and Lois watched. You remember which one it was, don't you?"

Clark blinked. "Ah..." He turned to look at Lois, but Perry jerked him back.

"Oh, yes, the video." What video? And what did that have to do with
Superman?* "Yes, Chief. But the assignment was on Superman, wasn't it?"

"Well, you could start by asking about him at that video rental. He might
have dropped off a tape there." You could almost see Clark sweat under his
suit, Perry thought... if Superman did sweat... He hadn't noticed that
before. Maybe, just maybe, the boy would slip enough that he could nail him
down and get him to admit what was REALLY underneath that suit.

"Dropped off a tape?" Clark peeped--then cleared his throat. "I... don't
think he watches tapes..."

"But you do, son, Lois said you watched one last night and it turned her
right on." He winked. "Maybe it would work on Alice. Lois couldn't remember
what the tape was though. Do you?"

"Ah... It was something... romantic."

"Uh-huh? You got a title for it?"

"Oh, the title. It was nothing special... Something like "You and I"... I
really don't quite remember."

Perry frowned. "Son, I really need some help with Alice..."

Clark felt for his boss. "Well, I always like romantic French movies...
although sometimes movies like, oh, Speed II can turn on some women."

"Well, son, have you seen any French movies lately that you would
recommend. I understand you have been to France yourself."

"Yeah, I was... I traveled a lot... I like to see them in the original, but
Lois doesn't like French...Well, Chief, I like any movies with Catherine
Denueve...though I haven't seen any recently... Okay, so, what's the
assignment?"

"Clark, I think someone's found out Superman's secret identity and it's our
job to help the man out."

"Oh." The alarms were going off in Clark's head. Now, where had he slipped?
Was Lex back from the abyss? "That is terrible, Chief. When... I mean...
how did you find out. Do we have a source... or any clues... yet?"

"Actually, Clark, I think Lois has the clues on this one." He turned Clark
bodily around and shoved him gently out the door. "Go talk to her... and
let's all have dinner tonight."

Clark found himself standing on the landing, looking at his wife. She was
looking back at him, questions in her eyes. She noticed immediately that
Clark was tense, VERY tense. Clark walked over to her and perched on the
edge of her desk, trying to look casual. He bent down to kiss her, taking
hold of her hand. "Something is wrong, honey. Perry said someone found out
about Superman's secret identity, and you would be the one to ask."

"Well, we better hope it's not true," she whispered back, "because you know
how most of those who find out die horrible deaths..."

"Yeah..." Clark gulped. "I hope it's a bad guy...--no, I don't. I just
hope... who is it?"

"It's..." Lois looked down, sighing. "I *think* it's..."

She hesitated. She knew he was worried already. She was, too. Maybe she WAS
just imagining it. "Well, I'm not sure. But here is not the best place to
talk about it. I have wrapped up my story. If you don't have anything else,
maybe we can get off early tonight."

"Oh, Lois, Perry said he wanted to have dinner with us tonight..."

Lois blinked. Uh-oh...

"There seems to be something with Alice..."

"Hey, guys! I luv yas!" Ralph said as he appeared out of nowhere and gave
them both big hugs.

Ralph...? Clark thought. Could he be the one, maybe...? We'd miss him
but... nah... I guess it could be worse... He said, "Hi, Ralph. Seen any
good videos lately?"

"Yeah, you know, I saw that film about that really great French chick..."

"'Speedette'? Jimmy likes that one."

Lois was still trying to get rid of Ralph without becoming too obvious. He
was off on a detailed description of French babes' "hooters." Hooters,
right. Keep this up, and you are not going to live long. She stole a
sideward glance at Clark, noticing how he was clenching the desk. No time
to pursue it now, though. They needed to get out of here before the desk
gave way. "Oh, that sounds really interesting, Ralph." Forgive me, Jimmy,
she added silently. "You know, Ralph, I think Jimmy is a real fan of those
movies, too. If I remember correctly, he told me earlier that there was a
sequel out."

"Oh, yeah? Has he seen it? I haven't heard of one yet. But if you like, I
could lend you and Clark the videotapes I have. But then, with you
around... Clark might not need those..." he said, leering at her.

"Well, I think Jimmy already has a copy of that new one," Lois said,
crossing her fingers that Ralph would go for the bait. If you knew what was
at stake, I know you'd understand, Jimmy.

"He does...?" More of that grin. "Where is he?"

"Oh, I think he went downstairs to the archive. If you hurry, you might
still catch him there."

"Well, thanks! I'll mention to him that you like the movie, too. You have a
wonderful day now, okay?"

Gee, thanks, Lois thought. Then pasting a polite smile on to her face, she
said. "Any time, Ralph..." as he turned and headed for the elevator.

"Let's get out of here, Clark!" As she opened her drawer to get her purse,
she looked toward where Clark had been sitting. He was oblivious to what
she had said. "Clark...?"

His superhearing seemed to have deserted him for the moment.

*****

What did everybody have about French movies tonight? Clark wasn't listening
any longer. Superman's identity might have been discovered. When...?
How...? By whom...? He would have broken into a sweat if he could have.
Without knowing, he was clutching the edge of the desk, his knuckles
turning white. He had always known that the secret identity thing was a
risky business. It gave him a chance to have the private life that he
wanted... needed. There had been an occasion or two when he had been ready
to reveal his identity for the greater good, but wiser heads than his had
prevailed. But he was well aware of what he would have been risking and
giving up. He and Lois had become really careful about it. He had sworn he
would make every effort to avoid slipping again. How had it happened...?
His mind was running in circles, trapped.

And when somebody did find out... Clark had to make an effort to fight down
the panic as he remembered the worst time. He could feel the agonizing pain
of the atomizer on his chest, cutting through his protection, searing his
flesh, immobilizing him. The gloating expression on Lex Luthor's face as he
first threatened to kill him, then decided to torture him further instead.
Luthor knew exactly where he could get him, knew his every weak spot. He'd
already had Lois. Then he took his mother with him, too. Clark remembered
the utter helplessness he had felt then, being condemned to watch idly as
he lay on the floor, weak as a kitten and momentarily deprived of all his
powers. He had lain there and had been forced to listen as Luthor taunted
and threatened him. There had been no doubt in his mind that Luthor
wouldn't hesitate one moment to make true on his threat and let on about
Superman's true identity and how to get to him. It was a curse that he
wouldn't be able to escape.

He had had to rely on Lois' clone for help, sending her to her death. She
would have died within the next couple days anyway and it had been her
choice, but he still felt responsible. Who was to know what she could have
experienced in the time left to her still? She was like a child in many
ways, had but begun to live her life. He wouldn't have been able to change
her fate, but they might have been able to make her days count. She hadn't
been Lois, but in the end, she had come closer to the original, and in her
own way, had become close to him. She was a friend, a younger sister...
again somebody close to his heart that had been hurt... killed because of
being associated with Superman.

The hours till his powers had rebuilt sufficiently for him to go in pursuit
of Luthor had been about the worst in his life. His father had been there
with him, trying to look confident and reassuring as he looked after him,
trying to nurse him back to strength. But his father was no good at
covering up the concern he felt. They had both been so helpless. That
helplessness and not knowing about the fate of their loved ones had been
worst.

When Jonathan had thought he was sleeping, Clark had seen him cry. It had
cut through his heart to see his dad like that and know that he was
responsible for it. His mother and father shared a bond as special as his
and Lois'. His concern for his parents had been one of the determining
factors when he originally decided to hide his powers. He had grown up with
the possible threat of "being taken to a lab and being dissected like a
frog." By the time he had reached puberty, Clark had become well aware that
the possible threat was not only to him, but to his parents as well.

>From time to time, strangers had shown up in Smallville, investigating. His
parents were always questioned, and while they were not openly suspected or
physically harmed in any way at the time, even as a little boy Clark had
picked on the fear and the upset that caused his parents to sometimes talk
privately in a hushed voice and then later as his superpowers began to
develop, urged him not to let any of them show. .

He had almost lost the real Lois in the final confrontation with Luthor as
well. He had been haunted by nightmares of the scenario for weeks and
months to follow. Luthor had actually set her up to kill him. She couldn't.
That much of her personality and their bond had remained in spite of Lois'
amnesia. But Lois HAD been lost to him for weeks. While he had rationalized
that this loss had been born of Luthor's really sick and perverted mind,
the fear would not go away completely.  he could not bear the thought that
the one person who had come to know the all of him and loved him for who he
was might once again be just a colleague and friend.

He had had to live through the first weeks afterwards without Lois' aid. He
still wasn't sure how he had made it.

Then the Kryptonian interlude. Superman was the reason for that, too, in a
way. Being away from Lois, having to desert her like that when he knew only
too well how she felt. At least they had made that choice together. His
parents and all the people in Smallville didn't have a choice when they
were taken hostage by Lord Nor and his followers. People had suffered and
died because of him then. At least Lois had been with him through the
better part of the Smallville affair. Again, they had lived through it
somehow.

Finally then, when they got married, the ride got a little less rough for
them for a while. They had been able to pick up the pieces. The fear of
Luthor's knowing was always there. They couldn't be sure of what had
happened to Luthor, if he was indeed gone for good this time. And they had
both seen Luthor's servant escape. Until the final confrontation, there had
been plenty of time for Luthor to spread the word. It was another threat
they needed to accept and learn to live with. Over the months, while they
could never put the fear away completely, the curse was no longer lurking
behind every corner. Eventually, Clark had begun to hope that maybe, just
maybe, they had been lucky that one time and Luthor had taken the knowledge
into his grave with him.

That was when Fate struck again and Luthor's son had shown up, being every
bit as evil, but also as resourceful as his father had been, even sharing
his father's perverted idea of "loving" Lois. As far as Lois was concerned,
Luthor Junior had been worse. He had gotten into Lois' head somehow and
hadn't hesitated to torture her to get what he wanted. There was no way of
telling how they could have resolved this one if, in the end, Leslie hadn't
come to their aid.

And now... had Lex gotten the knowledge out amongst the criminal world
after all... How many knew...? Was the person who found out fiend or foe?
Would they threaten him or be threatened...? Either way, Clark felt weighed
down by the enormous responsibility. At times like these, Superman felt
like a curse almost. And yet it was his chance of fighting a small portion
of the evil that threatened not just him and the ones he loved, but every
citizen of the city he had made his home, every breathing soul under the
sun...

continued in part 2
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:19:25 -0400
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Subject:      "Perry Knows" (part 2 of 2)
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Continued from part 1

He was brought out of his reverie when Lois touched the hand that was
clutching her desk still and tried to pry his fingers loose. Her touch
finally registered and he looked at her. "Sorry, what...?"

"I got rid of Ralph, but he could be back any minute. Let's just get out of
here."

"Yeah, sure." He rose from the desk.

At that there was a loud crashing noise from the street. Immediately,
Clark's attention was back. "Car wreck. Sounded bad."

"Go."

"Perry... The dinner appointment..."

"I'll talk to Perry. Meet you at home," she said, then adding a "Be
careful!" after his retreating figure.

*****

Perry had been watching the whole interchange from the door of his office.
As he saw Lois rise, he waved her over. When he had talked to her earlier,
he had mainly wanted confirmation for his suspicion. By now his manner had
softened. It had not gone unnoticed by him how tense... how scared even,
his top reporter team appeared. If they could just get this whole thing out
in the open between the three of them ...

The little bathroom episode had just been the final piece in the puzzle
that he had slowly been putting together these past four years since Clark
had started at the Planet. So many things had finally fallen into place,
details like Clark's always rushing off and never being there when Superman
appeared. Well, almost never. He would still need to explain those few...
The car wreck just now was just another example.

Lois walked up to him, and he gave her a warm smile. "Are you taking off
early for once? I talked to Clark earlier. I think we three should talk.
Over dinner."

He noticed she tensed immediately. So, trying to look as harmless as
possible, he said, "Well, haven't a nice long talk in a while. You kids
have been married now for... five months, isn't it? I'd like to know what
you have been up to..." He grinned. "You know, Alice and I... She enjoys
watching you two lovebirds, and frankly, I need to get back in practice if
she and I are going to stay together this time...But, she has different
plans for tonight. So it will just be me."

God, let it be just that. "Sure, Perry," she tried to give him a smile, not
feeling entirely successful.

"You and Clark have had a busy day," he continued. "So why don't I just
come by your house tonight and we can order out for dinner?"

Something about his demeanor told her that he wouldn't take no for an
answer. She had seen that look on his face before. Perry was still up to
something. He wasn't so obvious now, but she could still feel the old
news-hound trying to pick up the trail underneath.

"Sure, Chief. That will be fine."

"Right, I'll come by around seven then." No, wait, he remembered, the car
wreck. Never know how long that kind of thing takes. The kids needed a
little time to unwind. Not too much, though. "No, make that eight. I still
have that meeting with Mr. Stern's new accountant tonight."

Lois forced another smile. "Sure, Chief. We'll see you then." With that she
turned and headed for the elevators.

*****

When Lois got home, she found Clark sitting on the sofa looking up at her.
Of course, he had heard her coming. From the way he sat, she could tell
that he had been sitting with his head cupped in his hands. He looked
tired, got up and met her halfway across the room, though.

"Perry...?"

"Perry...?" Lois replied. "The poor man's stuck with the accountant... Oh.
I couldn't tell what he was thinking..."

He sighed, shrugging his shoulders. "I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Knowing Perry..."

They smiled at each other briefly.

"How bad was the accident? It looked like it was right in front of the
building; the streets were all blocked off and I couldn't get out of the
parking structure for almost half an hour..."

"Drunken driver. One dead, five people hurt including one pedestrian. Two
are in critical condition. The cars went up in flames. If only I could have
gotten there a few moments earlier, I might have prevented the explosion,
the guy might have lived."

"But you couldn't." She reached out and gave him a hug.

They stayed like that for a long moment. Then he straightened up and
squared his shoulders. He renewed their embrace, kissing her. "How about
Perry?"

"He is coming over for dinner about eight."

"Let me help you with this." He took her coat from her. "Did he say
anything further? Is Alice coming, too?"

"No, just him." She sat down on down on the sofa heavily, and after hanging
her coat, he seated himself next to her.

For a moment, they just looked at each other. The issues at hand couldn't
wait. "Perry said you were the one to ask on the Superman issue, and you
said you may have an idea who knows."

She nodded slowly. "I think Perry is the one who knows."

"Perry...? Are you sure?"

"Well, I can't be 100% sure, but he asked some questions after you left
that don't make much sense otherwise. He might have seen you slip into the
rest room and not come out again. He went to the men's room himself, and
after he was done, he came out and asked me where you were. That's too much
of a coincidence for me...."

"What did you tell him?"

She gave him a rueful smile. "That you were returning a video we had rented
last night."

"Oh. He asked me about videos, too, which one we had seen last night. But
he wanted to find something to impress Alice with. It might just be that
after all."

"Well, I hope that that is the reason. But we shouldn't underestimate
Perry. He was a topnotch reporter in his day, and he still has that
instinct and a very sharp mind. I used to wonder why he hadn't figured you
out already. Even though..." She reached over and took his glasses off. "It
took me two years to see through that elaborate disguise of yours. And I
was working closely with you all the time."

He ran a weary hand over his eyes. "That's great, but you, you know what
his knowing about me could mean to his safety. Boy, I wish I needn't be so
secretive about it. I want my friends to know... You know I wanted you to
know... because it's me... part of what and who I am..."

She knew how he felt about it, not being able to be as straightforward and
open as he wanted to be and was by nature. She knew it had isolated him all
these years. She was grateful that he had had his parents and that they now
had each other. But he still suffered from having to live with... maybe not
a "lie", but a hidden truth that he couldn't afford to share with the
world. He had high moral standards about the need to be truthful, and
ironically those very standards seemed to tear him apart sometimes...

"The people closest and most precious to me, the people who know, have a
tendency to get into trouble, to get hurt, and I might not be able to do
anything about that."

It wasn't news. She had lived with that knowledge ever since she found out
who he was, and his parents had lived with it ever since they had found him.

They both knew it and had accepted the risk.

But she had been in tight places before, when she just knew him simply as
Clark, her colleague, and Superman, her hero. She had taken risks then and
had taken them before Clark had entered her life. Clark knew that. It was
just part of the package deal he'd gotten when he'd fall in love with her.

It was the wood she was made out of, "the oak" that made her the ace
reporter she was. Yet she felt he needed to be reminded of that truth.

"Clark, we take risks. We wouldn't be investigative reporters if we didn't.
Perry is carved from the same wood. He was constantly taking risks in his
days as a reporter, and he's taking risks now. Being the editor in chief of
a paper like the Planet is bound to put you in the limelight. You know
you've gotten him out of a tight place more than a few times... not more
than me, to be sure, but... but the thing is, he enjoys getting into
trouble just as I enjoy it. If somehow he put himself into the position to
find out about you, then he did so of his own free will. You don't have to
blame yourself for it."

Clark looked at her, gave her a half smile and a hug. "Thanks. I know. But
knowing doesn't make it any easier."

She squeezed his shoulder. "I know, too. But we're in this together. And if
it really is Perry, then I am not that worried, not really, anyway. This is
*Perry* we're talking about."

Together. That togetherness helped. There were there for each other, giving
and taking. They had had more than their share of difficulties, probably
already more than enough for a lifetime, but they had always pulled through
together, somehow. He felt himself begin to relax. If it was really Perry
who had found out his secret...well, at least it wasn't someone like Lex
Luthor. Perry was a friend, a mentor, someone who could be trusted. They
had known far worse people. Lois was right. Perry was certainly able to
take care of himself... well, most of the time.

Still, Clark didn't want to endanger the people around him. And would that
new knowledge change the relationship with his boss and mentor-friend?
Would Perry be angry at him for keeping the secret from him? Lois had been
mad as hell for a while. He felt confident enough in his work at the Planet
and his reputation as part of the best reporting team ever that he did not
fear for his job. But would Perry still want to be close...?

"We still have about an hour till Perry comes over. I guess we'll find out
what he has to say then. Why don't you freshen up a bit while I get this
place into some semblance of order? You smell a little like gasoline."

"Oh." So much for his supersenses. But not noticing the way you smelled
sometimes was something normal. There is hope for you yet, Kent. He smiled
wryly at the thought and then at her. "I can help you. I'll only be two
minutes."

"Oh, no, you don't!" She grinned. "There is plenty of time for you to take
a shower at normal speed. It'll help you relax. And you know I like the way
you smell fresh out of the shower."

The atmosphere having lightened considerably, he grinned back at her.
"Well, I could think of a few dozen other ways to relax, the majority of
them involving my beautiful wife."

He placed a lingering kiss on her lips. When she drew away, she whacked his
chest playfully. "We'll come to that part later. Go wash that gasoline off,
or you might catch fire too soon."

*****

When Perry came to dinner, his earlier inquisitiveness had been replaced by
the jovial spirit they were used to seeing from him. After a little while,
his hosts had relaxed enough that they really enjoyed the Mexican food they
had order while Perry entertained them with a story of how Elvis had
obtained his Federal Marshal's badge. Although they had heard it at least a
dozen times before, they were content to let Perry do the talking.

Boy, I'm glad that he didn't want to see that French movie tonight. By now
Clark was actually seeing some humor in the situation. And Perry really
didn't seem to want to pursue the matter.

When they were done eating, Clark helped clear the table and bring the
coffee in. Then all of them having settled with their coffees around the
table, Perry cleared his throat. "You know, we have been thinking about
some minor restructuring of some of the facilities at the Planet while
we're renovating the building. I've been talking to the brass and given
them some sketches. I wonder if you could help me with this one."

With that, he spread a paper in front of him on the coffee table and
started to explain the roughly drawn sketch. "Well, you see, these are the
rest rooms just off the newsroom. Now, we have been thinking about redoing
the stalls altogether. We are going to make them a little more spacious..."

Perry wanted their opinion on the new restroom design? Clark wondered.
Pressure from management must really be getting to him...

"We'll gain the additional space needed by having a stall in front of the
big window. With the rooms as high as they are, we'll still get enough
light from above. We will put new screens in the window, too. Some you can
push up and pull down as need be. Oh, and the new doors of the stalls will
go down all the way to the floor to insure privacy when you want to change
your boots."

Boots...?

"Pardon, sir?"

"I said you might like the new design when you change your boots, Clark.
You know, red is... a fairly bright color."

Clark's mouth hung open, and Lois took in a sharp breath.

There was a long silence while Perry sat back and eyed them curiously.
"Well, what do you say? After all the good you had done for this city, I
figured the Planet should at least chip in and make things a little easier
for you."

There was no use denying it. Perry was watching the two of them and
obviously expecting an answer.

"How...?"

"When...?"

They both started at the same time, then felt silent again.

"'How long have I known?" Perry prompted. "Well, I wasn't sure until I saw
your boots underneath the door in the restroom this afternoon, Clark. But I
have been wondering for a long time. Superman was never far when you were
around, although I hardly ever saw the two of you together. I didn't want
to press it before I could be sure. Plus, whatever you did didn't affect
your work at the Planet. And you obviously have your reasons for keeping
this quiet. But since I got confirmation with my own eyes today, I wanted
to hear it from you. Just once: Clark Kent, the mild-mannered reporter is
Superman. Whatever else you choose to share with me won't leave this room."

"Chief..." Clark was fumbling for words. "I'm sorry. I... didn't mean to
trick you. I've always felt bad about not being able to tell you the whole
truth... It's just... it's dangerous... dangerous for those who know and
dangerous to those close to me..."

"That's all right, son. I understand. You don't have to explain any
further... Although I would be curious to learn how you pulled it off,
those few times that you were there at the same time as Superman."

Clark gave a tiny grin at that. He explained about his mother's
experimenting with laser sculptures, then about different time lines and
parallel universes, and finally launched into his whole story. He didn't
stop until Perry was in on the whole picture. The older man did not
interrupt him once, only whistling softly to himself a few times in
surprise. Even Lois just sat back and smiled proudly.

When Clark was finally done, Perry let out a breath. "That would make one
heck of a story or even a TV show, son!"

"Chief...?"

"Don't worry, son. Maybe one day the world will be ready to handle a story
like that, but not in my time, and probably not in yours, either. As I
said, your little secret is as safe with me as it is with Lois." He looked
at his watch. "It has gotten really late, and a news-hound like me needs
his beauty sleep."

With that he straightened and got up.

"Chief, thank you. Thank you for understanding." Clark and Lois got up
likewise, grasping his hand at the same time, all three of them starting to
laugh at the tangle of hands.

"Sure thing. Nothing has changed. You won't get any favors from me because
of that suit. I expect to see you bright and early in the morning."

After they had seen him to the door, the couple sat down on the couch
again. Clark let out a breath. "That was... something."

"Yeah. That's Perry for you."

"I'm glad he knows."

"Me, too." She smiled at him. "This wasn't so bad, was it?"

"No." He shook his head. "I feel relieved... but also drained..." He sighed
and put his arm around her. "Perry expects us in on time tomorrow. I guess
we ought to call it a night."

She turned to kiss him, then nudged him in the side gently. "Yeah, let's.
Remember all those different ways to relax..."

THE END
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:23:42 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kate Crane" <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Medical Question

> I know when my teenage son had a suspected concussion, I was supposed to
wake
> him up several times in the night and ask him a question to make sure he
> could think clearly.  When I asked him who the president of the United
States
> was and he said Darth Vader, I said, "close enough" and went back to
sleep.
>
> Kate
>

ROTFLMAO!  I was wondering about that!  <eg>

Tara
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:28:00 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20000829120820.0080e6d0@pop.intergate.ca>
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>Melisma (watching the listmembers fainting from the shock of it, from under
>her rock)

LOL!  Great to see you out from under that rock, Melisma.  :)

>And if there are any other crosses between LnC
>and B5/Crusade, XF, any of the ST incarnations, MASH, or JAG, let me know
:)

M*A*S*H, hmmm?  <thinking seriously>  I'm a *huge* M*A*S*H fan, but had
never
really thought about writing a crossover between the two.  It might be a
kick
to write some fun little whimsical story regarding the mix and match
characters.  (Yes, even after I just recently posted that I don't usually
like
crossovers <sg>)  I'd be game to try, although a premise escapes me at this
point.  If you can give me a good idea, I'll give it a go.  :)

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:43:13 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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Lois and Clark was our 'date' night.  We didn't have a lot of spending
cash and there was little to actually go spend money on, so we sat down
and watched L&C.

We didn't get married until July of 94 and for the first 7 months of our
marriage we where on opposite shifts.  I slept in the afternoons and
evening and she slept when most normal people did.  She later confessed
that she had watched the program off and on during the what would have
been the second season.

God blessed us with moving to St. Louis just before the second season
ended and I got a job change.  So she introduced me to the show when a
couple of episodes before the second season ended.  It was then it became
our date night.

As the show was coming to an end and 'that network' kept moving around the
time slot, bouncing our date night all over the place,  we found that
really wanted more.

After it was canceled, I found TUFS.  We were estatic!  Then we found
Season 5 and that is when we found the Archive and the Kerths and Zoom's
board.  We used up so much in we started buying it in bulk!

All that said, we thought we could write a story or two, and thus was born
30 days hath September and Between a rock and a Dark Place.  Originally
they were two seperate stories but we thought they would work well
together and combined them.  Then we found out we were pregnant and so we
shelved the story in favor of becoming professionally pregnant.

That lasted for about 6 months and I got bored so I wrote the outline of 7
Days of Superman.  The rest is history, no pun intended. ;)

My primary reason for writing is that I love the show and I love the
FanFic Authors that write about it.  You all inspired Elisabeth and I to
write.

Which reminds me, if I don't finish 7 Days of Superman soon the only
offering I will have on the Archive is Not On Your Life and I doubt that
will get me a New Author slot in K2K1.

James

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
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Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:55:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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Irene asked:

> What is your favorite type of story and why?  What
> ones do you skip over and why?

What attracted me to L&C in the first place was the relationship between the
2 main characters and those are the stories I like best.  A-plots don't
interest me a lot which is strange since I'm a long time fan of Alistair
McLean,  Robert Ludlum etc... (And since I'm about to embark on writing a
story that emphasizes the A-Plot)  Although I like love and angst, I'm not
fond of stories that consist primarily of  run-on thoughts.  I find that
they tend to be repetitive. I prefer stories that are told through dialogue
and action.

Because of my vision, I read very slowly, so, with this limited consumption,
I select my reading material very carefully.  If it doesn't end with L&C
together, I don't want to read it.  At my age, I just want a happy ending
every time. I don't read death-fics or cross-overs.  I realize that this
cuts out many very good writers, so I will occasionally stray into forbidden
territory when a lot of people are enthusiastic about something.

The character that fascinates me most is Lois.  I was never a Comic book
reader even as a kid.  I would read an occasional Batman and Wonder Woman at
a friend's house and I read Superman in the 'funny papers' but he wasn't a
big hero to me.  'Lois Lane, Woman of the Nineties' as Teri developed the
character will always be a favorite because of the many facets of her
personality we're allowed to see. So I like stories where Lois is an
essential part of what happens, not ones full of Superman heroics.

Stories about New Krypton are not on my list and next gen are not what I
select first.  I do like revelation stories, softie that I am, and I'm
fascinated with the alt-universe Lois and Clark.

Finally, I won't read anything that is serialized, or not well written or
full of grammatical errors.  So I rarely read anything from the boards or
that is posted on the list unless it's fairly short.  I want to read the
entire story after it's been completed and polished.  I recall a story I
started to read from a posting here and in the first 2 paragraphs there were
5 grammatical errors and 3 really worn-at clichés.  That was all I read.  I
prefer my stories to be creative and written by people who know how to put
words together to make a story full of energy and fascination with a plot
that is logical and doesn't require an impossible suspension of disbelief.
(Okay, impossibility is what suspension of disbelief is about, but some
impossibles are more impossible than others.)

I discovered the fan-fic websites through TNT.  I had been a member of the
old Metropolis  and Krypton Clubs but lost contact when they changed their
mailing lists.  The first fic I read was on an old website of Zoom's
writings and I was ecstatic.  Then I found TUFS and moved on to the Archive
and S5 and S6.  I will never read everything available but there's more than
enough here to keep me hog-wallow happy. Now you know more than you ever
wanted to know about what I like and don't like. And like Erin, I long for
that perfect world where I have time to read  AND write.
  :)  Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:01:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Being ADHD my ideas usually never come the same way twice.

Between a Rock and a Dark place developed from a desire to introduce a new
superhero in Metropolis based on a Supers Character I made.

7DOS came to me in a fit of insomnia.

Not Even came to me when I had the stomach flu.

Apocolyps (??) came to as a single scene.

It also means that I have a hard time focusing on one thing at a time.

Currently I am:
Humming Ray Stevens - In the Mood/Thus Cacked Hennretta in my head.
Ignoring my daytimer reminder that I need to be unlocking the corporate
database for maintenance.
Writing this letter.
Ploting the first meeting between Tempus and Frank Parker.
And chewing a Star Burst.

And I am doing this all at the same time.

Now you know why it is taking me so long to get the blankety blank story
written.

James

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:09:55 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>From Elisabeth

I'll read just about anything as long is it is spelled write an is
grammatically good.

Elisabeth

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:15:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wanda McCants <WLCME7@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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James asks "What are the symptoms of a concussion?"
Most medical experts agree that sure signs include but are not limited to:
drowsiness, nausea,vomiting,changes in vision, blurred or double. Sluggish
behavior, and a loss of consciousness
                                         Wanda
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:10:05 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Slightly OT:  ARGH!  I feel rejected <g>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a bit off topic, but it does have something to do with writing.  :)

Okay, all you potentially published hopefuls out there...cheer me up!!  :)
If
I get one more rejection notice from an agent for the book I'm trying to get
published, I'm going to give up writing all together. (JK <g>)  The
depressing
part is that most of the copies of the manuscripts I sent out that are
returned don't even look like they've been read.  It sure seems like a 'who
you know' type of world.  <sigh>  All those of you who have had books
published, do you have any words of wisdom for me that'll cheer me up?  :)

Sorry for off topic, but I had to vent.  :)

Erin  (off to go look for some really rich chocolate ice cream <g>)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:16:42 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I read a Quantum Leap and M*A*S*H* Crossover someplace, but I can't
remember off hand where.

James
--- Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET> wrote:
> >Melisma (watching the listmembers fainting from the shock of it, from
> under
> >her rock)
>
> LOL!  Great to see you out from under that rock, Melisma.  :)
>
> >And if there are any other crosses between LnC
> >and B5/Crusade, XF, any of the ST incarnations, MASH, or JAG, let me
> know :)
>
> M*A*S*H, hmmm?  <thinking seriously>  I'm a *huge* M*A*S*H fan, but had
> never
> really thought about writing a crossover between the two.  It might be a
> kick
> to write some fun little whimsical story regarding the mix and match
> characters.  (Yes, even after I just recently posted that I don't
> usually like
> crossovers <sg>)  I'd be game to try, although a premise escapes me at
> this
> point.  If you can give me a good idea, I'll give it a go.  :)
>
> Erin  :)
> __________________
> erink@ida.net
> Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
>              *****
> "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
> happen."
> __________________

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:17:51 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joy Sowell <jsowell@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I'll read cross-overs.  I like them more if I like the other show, but
knowledge of that show isn't critical if the story is well written.  I only
saw B&B a time or two, but i enjoyed Becky's "Timeless".  If anyone wants to
post a JAG croos over, I'll read it. (That's a hint to Felix and Melisma).

JOY :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:20:35 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <20000829201642.6220.qmail@web209.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:16 PM 29/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I read a Quantum Leap and M*A*S*H* Crossover someplace, but I can't
>remember off hand where.
>
>James

You are probably thinking of Q*U*A*N*T*U*M*L*E*A*P, which was the first
crossover I ever read - maybe even the very first fic period that I ever
read. I've got it saved on my hard drive, if you want me to send it to you
privately. There are a couple others that I have, too, but that's the one
everyone I've ever talked to thinks of first when you say Quantum Leap/MASH
crossover :)

Melisma (under her rock, amazed at all the posting she is doing today...)

Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:25:03 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <384643698.967580271460.JavaMail.root@web307-mc.mail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 04:17 PM 29/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
>I'll read cross-overs.  I like them more if I like the other show, but
>knowledge of that show isn't critical if the story is well written.  I only
>saw B&B a time or two, but i enjoyed Becky's "Timeless".  If anyone wants
to
>post a JAG croos over, I'll read it. (That's a hint to Felix and Melisma).
>
>JOY :)

Hehe, Joy, how's my JAG-lists pal? :) I've wanted to write a JAGfic for a
while now, but I don't feel as confident with my own knowledge of the show
as I do with Star Trek, XFiles and Lois and Clark. Perhaps now that I have
all the old eps on tape (thanks Nancy Nissen :) that will change. I still
have too many other fics in the works or planning, but I guess I could
start thinking of a plot idea for a JAG/LnC cross...

Melisma (feeling devious, here under her rock)

Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:29:21 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hey, James!  I got curious about your question and did a little searching.
(<g> You've gotta love meta-search engines!)

Here you go:

Difficulty in remembering events just prior to concussion, irritability,
confusion, blurred vision, dizziness, and vomiting are among a concussion's
immediate symptoms. More serious concussions are characterized by longer
periods of unconsciousness, and the symptoms just listed tend to last
longer. Most concussion symptoms cease within a few days. Treatment includes
bed rest, and restrictions on driving and playing sports to prevent repeated
blows, which can lead to more serious conditions, like slurred speech and
impaired thinking.

This was from here: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1104.html  and seemed
to be almost exactly like the info on the other pages.  Hope this helps!

Tara
----- Original Message -----
From: "JaT" <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:15 AM
Subject: Medical Question

> What are the symptoms of someone suffering from a concussion.  Say
> striking a force field at 20 times the speed of sound...
>
> James, who has some ideas on the next 7 parts except for the one that is
> supposed to be next, argh!
>
> =====
> The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
> Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14
>
> Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:34:15 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Medical Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/29/00 2:29:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM
writes:

<<
 Headache
 Nausea
 Blurred vision
 Ringing Ears
 Dizziness >>

There can also be projectile vomiting and double vision ( a sidebar to
blurred vision, I suppose.)

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:01:11 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: That terrace...
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Wendy wrote:
>
> From what I understand, Clark's apartment also underwent a few changes
over
> the years - remember the scene in DTOSC when they're in his apartment and
> Lois tries on Clark's glasses? Suddenly - for the convenience of the
> script, which has that remote-controlled helicopter shooting at Clark -
the
> large picture window which is actually in Clark's bedroom ended up in the
> living area.

[Aha! I knew it! I knew it! LOL. Remember that conversation, Becky? <G> I
could have sworn those darn windows moved. And then I became convinced I was
imagining the entire thing. ]

>
> For most of the series, Clark seemed to get out onto his balcony through a
> door leading from the kitchen - remember ILTY, among others? But it
> wouldn't surprise me if, for convenience, that entrance was shifted for
> particular episodes.
>
[Oh, well...I'll make it up as I go along then. <G> Won't be the first
time.]

Laurie wrote:

It looked to me like it was off the bedroom sort of. Remember in "Man of
Steel Bars" when he goes off to stop the train, he goes out the door to the
terrace (I think). Bathroom? In a Hollywood set? Not likely unless they are
filming a scene in one. There probably wasn't one at all and I'd bet they
never even thought of making sure we could see where one was. <g>

[Well, we did get a glimpse of Clark's bathroom - in Small World. But it was
in isolation, which doesn't really tell me anything. Nice shot of Clark in
the shower though, so it was worth it. ;)

--Laurie (looking forward to your story)

[Thanks, Laurie. I hope it will be out soon and worth the wait when it is.
:)]

[Thanks for the help as always, guys. ]

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:31:57 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Lorie Y. Crisp" <SuperLorie@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hmm......good question.
I like most of the types of stories that you FoLCs write. Except deathfics.
And the ones where Lois and Clark don't get together in the end (I know
they're out there). And I stay away from New Krypton stories. I don't know
why. I guess I'll have to venture into those, because most of those end
happily. Don't they???

And I"m partial to Nfic Revelation stories. Call me frisky :)

I think the stories are most fun when Lois and Clark aren't married yet, or
she's just found out that he's Superman. Or the ones where they ARE married,
but have kids that don't know that he's Superman and are finding out. But
I'm
babbling.

I like this thread that Wendy started. Someone sure is getting their wish
about the list not being slow anymore. At least for now :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:33:10 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Lorie Y. Crisp" <SuperLorie@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
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In a message dated 08/29/2000 5:17:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
KCrane1865@AOL.COM writes:

<< Kate
 who is patiently waiting the continuation of Red Sky.....subtle hint.....
>>

AHEM! I SECOND THAT COMMENT!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:38:51 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>0 for liking Crossovers
>1 Indifferent
>3 for dislikeing Crossovers
[snip]
>I'm sure it didn't help that I killed Clark in the first 3 pages either,
>but I do bring him back.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, James ;) I thought it was
deathfic that was the most repellant to readers, but maybe I was wrong. I
suppose, though, that a combo (semi)deathfic/crossover is the hardest to
sell.

As for my favorite types of fic, I like anything that's well-written. I
don't
have an aversion to any particular type, but there are types I think are
closer to exhaustion than others: revelation, for example. I like good
revelation fics, but revelation is a category where I tend to think that,
unless you've got a really new idea, you're probably better off doing
something else. That said, I'll admit my hypocrisy and say that I have a
partial revelation fic finished. Sure, I think the approach is new, but I
could be wrong...

I'm not a huge fan of crossovers, but that's only because I don't usually
know
the other TV show involved. I've read and enjoyed a few Quantum Leap
crossovers, but I've seen and like that show. I don't think I've ever seen
an
episode of Star Trek in its entirety, I don't like X-Files, etc. Maybe
someday
someone will write a West Wing crossover :)

Christy
kubitc@kenyon.edu

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:40:28 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Lorie Y. Crisp" <SuperLorie@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
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In a message dated 08/29/2000 11:31:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< 0 for liking Crossovers
 1 Indifferent
 3 for dislikeing Crossovers >>

I like Crossovers!! Most of the shows they cross L&C over with I watch
anyway, just 'cause those are kind of shows i like (like Star Trek , there
were some with Quantum Leap that i liked, etc) So keep doing the crossovers!

Oh, and i like the ones with Batman, the Flash, or Spiderman. Haven't seen
one with the Incredible Hulk though. That would be interesting.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:36:16 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Subject:      Re: Medical Question
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On 29 August 2000 18:44, Kate Crane [SMTP:KCrane1865@AOL.COM] wrote:
> I know when my teenage son had a suspected concussion, I was supposed to
wake
> him up several times in the night and ask him a question to make sure he
> could think clearly.  When I asked him who the president of the United
States
> was and he said Darth Vader, I said, "close enough" and went back to
sleep.
>

LOL, Kate!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:06:58 -0500
Reply-To:     msberard@earthlink.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Brazil Red <msberard@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
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I think the reason that most people do not like crossovers is that they
are actually one of the hardest to write. You have to be very careful in
your pairing, (because some shows just don't go together ever if other
factors seem to favor them). An example of a bad (or rather very
difficult  to maintain pairing would be Night Court and Beauty and the
Beast. Both occur in the 80's in the New York judical system. But one
was a screw-ball comedy and the other romantic/drama. It would be
*extermely* difficutly to accurately protray each show because of these
differences.

This is also also why 'Timeless' did so well as it was also a
romatic/drama. There was action every week but the show really revolved
around the couple. Thus it was easier to be true to each character, and
to really 'hear' the voices of each character in the story.

That's why most crossovers fail. You only hear the 'voice' of one set of
characters, the others you don't and when you don't--it's not a good
story.

Brazil <I know, I know, grammer and spelling *grin*> Red
James Tull wrote:
<snip>
>
> Now I realize that this is not a representative cross-section of the list
> but I am begining to suspect that I picked one of the hardests kinds of
> story to sell to a not quite hostile audience.
>
> Would that be a fair summation or am I really off base?
>
> I realize now that I picked a show that is on the UPN network, which is
> actually a network wanna be, so that is probably my worste mistake.
>
> I'm sure it didn't help that I killed Clark in the first 3 pages either,
> but I do bring him back.
>
> James
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:49:35 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jacalyn Sue Newman <jacalynsue@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
In-Reply-To:  <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L%2000082910140491@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Why breathe?

Seriously, I write because I can't NOT write. Even if the words never
hit the page, my mind works on the story. I write because I can't
help myself. I've been writing fanfic since I was ten or so, long
before I knew there was such a thing as fanfic. I just got fed up
with wonderful stories being ruined by stupid directors/actors/The
Powers That Be etc. So pen went to paper and here I am.... still
writing.

No, I have not published anything for L&C, though there is as story I
work on from time to time. But I have published in two other fandoms,
and the motive is always the same- I write, therefore I am!

Jackie
Jacalyn S. Newman
jacalynsue@earthlink.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:32:39 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: "Perry Knows" (part 1 of 2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Doris, it is very good to see you writing again and
participating on the list once again.

Just wanted to say - my favourite part of this was the
scene with Ralph.  You did a good job on his
characterisation.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:34:31 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)

On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:38:51 -0400, kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU> wrote:

> Maybe someday someone will write a West Wing crossover :)

Christy, yes, please!!!

Wendy (who loves The West Wing)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:10:46 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Budmayes2@AOL.COM
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I just bought a copy of Terminator 2 Judgement Day the Ultimate Edition DVD.

This thread has inspired a thought:

How would Lois & Clark handle something like a Terminator 2000?
Has Tempus found THE Ultimate weapon to destroy Superman and Utopia?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:24:12 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I just got back from Vegas yesterday after watching Catch 22 for 5 days!
(BTW, Roger Cain is such a sweetheart!)  Anyway, i felt this topic that
Wendy
brought up was a very interesting one.

I agree with her, when it comes to the length of time Lois and Clark has
been
off the air.  I'm not loosing interest in the show, but it's definately not
my top priority...meaning I don't think about it 24/7 like I used to!  I was
so mad about Lois and Clark being cancelled in 1997 that, that was all I
could think of!  I went to the internet in hopes of finding people who could
keep the spirit alive.  That drive has sorta died...I mean don't get me
wrong, I LOVE LOIS AND CLARK AND I LOVE FANFIC about it, it's just that I've
finally faced the music.  There is no way Lois and Clark can be renewed and
find a new life on tv.  I've also moved on to other things...I mainly follow
Dean's career.  When Lois and Clark was on the air on ABC, all I could think
about was Superman.   It has been 3 years.  Dean has moved on and I have
too.
 I am an all-around Dean fan.  I also have moved on to Catch 22.  I love
music and their music rocks!  Who cares if "Superman's brother" is in the
band. I don't look at it like that.  I look at the members in this band as
individual people.

I feel like I'm getting off topic here, so I will go back to what i was
talking about.  As my "strong" ties to LnC go away, so does my fanfic
interests.  As well as LnC fanfic I'm writing other fanfic based on other
Dean projects. In fact, right now I'm in the midst of writing a sequel to a
Dean movie I did not like.  If Dean was not in this movie, then obviously I
would not have watched it.

On the subject of MBs, well I don't know what to say.  I don't visit those
because I don't like them.  I don't like them because of my own personal
prefences.  I enjoy it when people post their stories on this list, but I
never have time to read them, let alone leave FDK.  I get so busy with going
to school, work, or hanging out with friends or even writing my own stories
that i tend to ignore others.  They just sit in my harddrive and gather up
cyper dust!  That's one thing I'm going to try to work on.  I want FDK from
people for my work so it only makes sense that I should do the same for
others.  I think I'm going to try to set aside some free time that will only
be reserved for reading fanfic/commenting on it.  I miss doing that anyway.

Alexis ;-.)
{sorry so long...but i had a lot to say since i've been gone for a week!}

"Don't fall for me farmboy, I don't have time for it."
(Lois) {"Pilot", LnC}
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:24:14 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/26/00 8:00:19 AM EST, KCrane1865@AOL.COM writes:

<< So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative
feedback
 comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
 understand your experience first hand? >>

As much as I'd like to say that I would welcome all sorts of FDK, in all
honesty I would value the advice of someone who has written fanfic or is
writing fanfic, then from someone who has never written it!  The people who
are writing and or who have written it, or looking at it from experience.
The readers are only looking at it from an entertainment point of you.  All
they can say is whether they like it or not.  While they may hate it, it may
be different from someone else.  It would be the same as getting a guy off
the street, and telling him to take over Perry's job at the Planet! If you
really want valuable FDK or advice on how to fix up a story, you need to
talk
to an expert.

Alexis ;-.)

"Don't fall for me farmboy, I don't have time for it."
(Lois) {"Pilot", LnC}
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:24:16 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 8/26/00 8:29:33 AM EST, Aerm1@AOL.COM writes:

<< There is an author who posts to this list who has rebuked just about
 everyone who has ever offered any constructive criticism, even if the
 criticism was sent via private email rather than the list.  This particular
 individual appears to be incapable of accepting any negative comments, even
 if making changes based on said comments would greatly improve her writing.
>>

I figure you are talking about me.  I always seem to come up, when I'm gone
on vacation or something like that.  Oh well...Since I have a right to
defend
myself, I will say only this.  Yes, I have rebuked a lot of FDK but it's
only
because it doesn't make sense!  People want to spend their time flaming your
work instead of pointing out a section of your story that might need more
clarification.  They waste their breath talking about how immature one is
because they don't take their advice, when in turn they are the ones being
immature.  What I have learned from my writing class, is that along with the
negative criticism comes a possitive one.  That way you can be re-enforced
about something before you go fix it.  I have yet to hear one good piece of
FDK from these people Ann has referred to.  I can't blame myself for
ignoring
them when all they want to do is flame me and or shut me up!  I'm not going
to take any of that crap for inconsiderate people who call themselves FoLCs.
Whenever I am gving FDK if there is anything negative, I always add a
positive.  I just wish others would give me the same respect.  That is one
of
my MAJOR reasons for not posting as much as I did around here.  Too many
people have actually told me to shut up, so I've guess I''ve finally reached
my limit of what I can tolerate.

Alexis ;-.)

"Don't fall for me farmboy, I don't have time for it."
(Lois) {"Pilot", LnC}
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:30:36 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Laurie Dunn <DUNNFOUR@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT:  ARGH!  I feel rejected <g>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Erin-  Read "The Circle of Quiet" by Madeleine L'Engel.  She tells about the
countless rejections she received from publishers before "A Wrinkle in Time"
was published.  As you know, it went on to win awards.  Keep trying!
LaurieD
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:39:56 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

Alexis, I can only assume that you imagine you have some reason for posting
so rudely in response to Ann. I do remember you saying on the nfic list
that you received one feedback email about your nfic which was obscene;
that's unacceptable. But I would be amazed if Ann, or anyone else, sent you
feedback which was entirely negative. In fact, I am aware of people who did
try to be helpful in connection with your story, including pointing out an
often-repeated grammatical error, and who received a very rude reply for
their trouble.

And yet you say in your other post that you welcome feedback, in particular
constructive criticism.

Wendy

------------------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:51:28 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Alexis wrote:
>
> As much as I'd like to say that I would welcome all sorts of FDK, in all
> honesty I would value the advice of someone who has written fanfic or is
> writing fanfic, then from someone who has never written it!  The people
who
> are writing and or who have written it, or looking at it from experience.
> The readers are only looking at it from an entertainment point of you.
All
> they can say is whether they like it or not.  While they may hate it, it
may
> be different from someone else.  It would be the same as getting a guy off
> the street, and telling him to take over Perry's job at the Planet! If you
> really want valuable FDK or advice on how to fix up a story, you need to
talk
> to an expert.
>
I've been enjoying this thread, but haven't had much to say on the subject,
because everyone else got there first. <G>

But I have to leap in and disagree with this one, Alexis! IMO, FDK isn't
something you need experience for or need to take an exam for. As writers we
write for readers. No matter who they are. Take, just as an example, Ray
Reynolds. Ray doesn't write fic. Ray, as far as I'm aware, has never written
fic. But I'll be willing to bet that there is hardy a writer on this list
who hasn't been delighted to benefit from his wonderful, encouraging,
insightful fdk when he's sent it to them. I certainly know he's brightened
up my mailbox with his in depth analysis and interesting comments and
opinions on more than one occasion and I certainly hope to see him in there
again, in the future. :)

You don't have to write fic yourself to know when a plot just doesn't hang
together. Or to recognise that a character you love and care about has been
written out of sync. All you have to know is that you either enjoyed a fic
or you didn't. And that is all the experience most of us expect or require
when we receive fdk, I think.

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:06:42 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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> << There is an author who posts to this list who has rebuked just about
>  everyone who has ever offered any constructive criticism, even if the
>  criticism was sent via private email rather than the list.  This
particular
>  individual appears to be incapable of accepting any negative comments,
even
>  if making changes based on said comments would greatly improve her
writing.
> >>
> I figure you are talking about me.  I always seem to come up, when I'm
gone
> on vacation or something like that.  Oh well...Since I have a right to
defend
> myself, I will say only this.

[Never figure, Alexis, or assume. You will invariably turn out to be wrong.
I don't know if you were or weren't on this occasion, or who was being
referred to, but I think it might have been wise to find out first, before
launching into your 'defence'. The result of not finding out first has been
that you are the one flaming fellow FoLCs on the list - and the impression
is given - at least from this side of the keyboard - that it's entirely
without justification or reason as I certainly didn't find anything in what
was said previously to lead you to believe you were being referred to at
all.]

LabRat :) who is aware that was a very long sentence at the end there, but
it's very late...no, early...and I'm tired, so excuse the incoherence.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 03:18:45 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Alexis wrote:
> As much as I'd like to say that I would welcome all sorts of FDK, in all
> honesty I would value the advice of someone who has written fanfic or is
> writing fanfic, then from someone who has never written it!  The people
who
> are writing and or who have written it, or looking at it from experience.
> The readers are only looking at it from an entertainment point of you.
All
> they can say is whether they like it or not.  While they may hate it, it
may
> be different from someone else.  It would be the same as getting a guy off
> the street, and telling him to take over Perry's job at the Planet! If you
> really want valuable FDK or advice on how to fix up a story, you need to
talk
> to an expert.

Expert? Alexis, I'm not sure any writer on this list would consider
themselves 'experts'. Besides, a reader, whether he or she writes fanfic on
his/her own or not, is above all a *reader*. And feedback from *readers* is
the best kind you can get, IMHO, because it means someone has feel moved
enough by your story to tell you that they liked it, or even better, what
they liked and what they think needs improvement.

I've recently stopped being 'only a reader', but I certainly hope that
authors won't view my feedback differently just because I've been writing. I
hope I'm keeping this reader's point of view :)

Do you think that writing L&C fanfic makes authors any more of  professional
critics than just reading it?

Helene :)
kaethel@club-internet.fr
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:21:24 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
In-Reply-To:  <001c01c0121c$6f8d7660$cbc730d5@l8s6k5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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LabRat wrote:
> IMO, FDK isn't
>something you need experience for or need to take an exam for. As writers
we
>write for readers. No matter who they are. Take, just as an example, Ray
>Reynolds. Ray doesn't write fic. Ray, as far as I'm aware, has never
written
>fic. But I'll be willing to bet that there is hardy a writer on this list
>who hasn't been delighted to benefit from his wonderful, encouraging,
>insightful fdk when he's sent it to them. I certainly know he's brightened
>up my mailbox with his in depth analysis and interesting comments and
>opinions on more than one occasion and I certainly hope to see him in there
>again, in the future. :)

Amen to that!  Ray is definitely on my good side with all the wonderful,
insightful feedback he's sent me over the years!  Just seeing an email in my
box from him after I've finished a story is enough to make it feel like
Christmas morning.  :)

>You don't have to write fic yourself to know when a plot just doesn't hang
>together. Or to recognise that a character you love and care about has been
>written out of sync. All you have to know is that you either enjoyed a fic
>or you didn't. And that is all the experience most of us expect or require
>when we receive fdk, I think.

Agreed!  I want to hear want the "experts" think, but more than that, I want
to hear what the *reader* thinks, whether they're an "expert" or not.  After
all, I'm writing for the readers.  I think it's a lot like movie critics.
How
many movies have I totally *loved* that one of them has hated?  Too many to
count, that's for sure.  And they're supposed "the experts."  And I think
any
movie producer will want to know what--are *care* about--what their audience
thinks because that's who's going to be making them their money!!  The
critics
aren't going to be giving them a red cent, so who cares about them.  <g>
Other than the initial reviews generating buzz.  But once word of mouth
starts
to get around that a certain movie is great, who's going to give a fig about
that critic's review?

Just MHO, though.

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:26:49 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Yay!  :) We've hit the list's daily limit!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wow!  How *great* it was to receive a notifcation back on my post from the
automated thingy (I know, technical word ;) saying we've reached the list's
daily limit!  I'm thrilled to see this kind of volume generated from the
list
again.  When's the last time this happened?  Anyone know?

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:58:55 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT: ARGH! I feel rejected <g>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I've never been published, but a little fact about my favorite author of all
time, LM Montgomery -- "Anne of Green Gables" was rejected about 20 times
before finally being accepted, and now it's an absolute phenomenon!  That's
what encourages me when I feel a little down after a short story gets
rejected. . .Hope you're cheered. :) (what kind of book are you writing, if
you don't mind my asking?)

Randi (aka Emily)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:55:14 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Hi, everyone. :)  I believe this is my first time posting here, though I've
been lurking for awhile and enjoying it. :)

Most of my ideas come at silly times -- walking, doing dishes, sweeping. .
.but never when I've actually set aside time to think about my next story!
;) And sometimes as I'm writing one story an idea will just come to me, and
I have to hurry over to a new file and abandon my now "old" story. :) One of
my stories was inspired by a dream I had.

And fleshing them out -- that really is the hard part! I get ideas for one
scene, sometimes just one *sentence* that haunts me until I make a story out
of it. . .but even then, I'm so used to short story writing that I make a
skeleton of a story without really expanding.  I'm still working on that. :)

So, hope it's ok that I'm posting to this. . .I'll be posting a little more
here now, I think. (Lots to talk about now!:))

Randi (aka Emily)
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:13:09 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>From: Jacalyn Sue Newman <jacalynsue@EARTHLINK.NET>:
>Why breathe?
>
>Seriously, I write because I can't NOT write.

Yeah, I feel the same.  I have to write my stories, especially when I feel I
have a good idea in my head. (Though, LOL, it doesn't always transfer to the
page.:))  It was just this incredible icing on the cake that I could

a) write about my favorite TV show and favorite characters of all time; and

b) get feedback!  It's so important to me -- and not just the "I enjoyed it"
variety, though I really love that too. ;) I'm very glad there are FOLCs out
there who tell me how I can fix a story, because that helps me be a better
writer (sometimes!) in all my writing, not just fanfic.  (It's just too bad
I subject unpolished stories to the 'gentle readers'! <g>)

Randi (aka Emily)
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:21:15 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>because it doesn't make sense!  People want to spend their time flaming
>your
>work instead of pointing out a section of your story that might need more
>clarification.

Personally, I have never been flamed on the boards, and can't really imagine
it happening on the list(here, anyway, I don't subscribe to the nfic list so
I couldn't say. :)).  All the feedback has been very helpful and encouraging
there, and the same spirit seems to prevail here.

Randi (aka Emily)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:16:51 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>
>In a message dated 8/26/00 8:00:19 AM EST, KCrane1865@AOL.COM writes:
>
><< So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative
>feedback
>  comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
>who
>  understand your experience first hand? >>
>
>As much as I'd like to say that I would welcome all sorts of FDK, in all
>honesty I would value the advice of someone who has written fanfic or is
>writing fanfic, then from someone who has never written it!

I have to totally disagree! Feedback from any reader, writer or not,  is
usually invaluable, after all, who are we writing for?  The readers! Anyone
who reads a story can have an opinion on it, and I love it when people share
their opinions!  Like I said in my other email, it helps me be a better
writer.  IMHO. :)

Randi (aka Emily)
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:23:25 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT: ARGH! I feel rejected <g>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Oooh, I've never heard of "The Circle of Quiet"!  I'll have to rush to the
library tomorrow.  (BTW, have you ever read "A Ring of Endless Light"? It
was so incredible. . . :))

Randi (aka Emily) --something of a L'Engle fan. :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 02:33:39 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Randi (akaEmily)" <emily_starr@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Recommendation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Ah, something I really appreciate about this list is the recommendations!  I
usually feel overwhelmed about how much fanfic is out there, and I never
know what to read.  But I just finished Becky Bain's "Ad Astra Per Aspera"
and really enjoyed it!
>
>
>
S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E
>
>
>
People talked about crying at the *end*.  Are you kidding?  I was bawling by
the second paragraph!  Seriously, though, when I read about assigning a new
reporter to Clark's desk and Lois's reaction, I was teary.  By the end of
the story, waterworks!  It was really good, though (even if I did stay up
way too late reading it!).  Tom was a great character, who I never expected
to like, but there you go.  Becky made me like him. :) (Darn it!)

Randi (aka Emily)
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:46:25 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

There is a current comic book storyline going on in a DC prestige miniseries
that pits Superman against the Terminators.  I haven't purchased it because
I'm waited for it to be collected into a trade paperback.
Tank
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:09:00 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Demona (Angel Of The Night)" <nightangel@HOME.COM>
Subject:      DEBATE, DISCUSSION & CRITIQUE IN A PUBLIC FORUM
In-Reply-To:  <39AC3401.2234@earthlink.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Time for a repost...

THE PEACEKEEPING MISSION OF DEBATE,
DISCUSSION & CRITIQUE IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

A FAQ intended to be distributed to LOISCLA-GENERAL-L and
the Lois & Clark Fanfiction Archive.

Created:  04/18/99

TABLE OF CONTENTS
-------------------

      I.   Introduction to Debate/Critique
      II.  Essential RULES of Discussion and Critique
      III. Fanfic Criticism: Who Should Do It & When?
      IV.  Define "Fair Play"

I. INTRODUCTION TO DEBATE/CRITIQUE

Disagreement in a public form is GOING to happen.  Whether we
choose to fortify ourselves with 'thick skins' or to attempt to sit in
on the sidelines and watch the action flow by, praying to our own
personal deities that it'll never get near ourselves, any number of
otherwise civil discussions can quickly escalate into an all out cyber-
tomato tossing contest if folks aren't careful.  By careful, we mean
TACTFUL about the way they advance their thoughts, suppositions
and critical analyses.

There are rules of engagement for every different kind of
circumstance.  For the purposes of a fan creative writing and/or
discussion forum, we're going to suggest what *we* feel are the
most all-round fair and considerate, (under these said conditions)
rules for what can probably aptly be termed a 'literary leisure play
area'.

Let us start with some basic facts of FAN FORUM communication.

II. ESSENTIAL RULES OF DISCUSSION & CRITIQUE

      A.   There is no such thing as a PROFESSIONAL FAN --
      Likewise, there is no such thing as a PROFESSIONAL FAN
      (fiction or editorial) WRITER.  No matter what is being
      written, whether a creative piece of prose, or someone's
      editorial take on a discussion, it is wrong to assume that the
      person writing:   i) wants to be a paid professional writer or
      ii) cares whether or not s/he misspelled the word 'anecdotal'
      in paragraph four of their article/story.

      B.   BE COURTEOUS & RESPECTFUL.  The person you're
      debating with DOES have feelings.  Never assume that just
      because a computer screen and 50,000 miles of ocean
      separates you from another writer, you have been given
      licence to treat that person as if they were a machine, instead
      of a person *using* a machine to communicate their very
      human ideas.

           ASK before you offer negative (even constructive)
      criticism on their creative work; is the person willing to
      receive it?  This isn't Random House Books -- No one is
      being monetarily compensated to share their mind as
      either an editor OR an author.  Likewise, there's nobody
      out there compensating folks for hurt or abused feelings
      because a self appointed critic has decided to be 'brutally
      honest' with a fan's creative work.   'Brutally Honest' is
      usually  'Brutally Selfish'.  Be considerate of others, first
      and foremost.

      The following is an excerpt from Peg Robinson's
      "MANNERLY ART OF CRITIQUE"
      (originally posted to ASC  c. 1997)

           "There are two basic approaches to crit, and one of them
      doesn't work well in an environment like [a fan creative
      forum]:  That's the approach of the professional critic
      reviewing and evaluating the professional artist.   The
      attitude of the pro critic is 'anything goes;' his persona is that
      of the Watchdog, defending the purses of the consumer and
      the high ideals of art; and his motto is "I calls 'em as I sees
      'em...and if you don't like it, take a hike."  The professional
      critic is loyal to the consumer, and to the world of art as a
      whole, and he or she owes no particular consideration to the
      artist.  The critic is there to protect the world from trash,
      shoddy craftsmanship, and trivial sensationalism.  It's an
      unpleasant but honorable calling when practiced by an ethical
      and competent master of the art.  Granted, there are a lot of
      vicious, pompous, meshugenah schmucks plying the trade;
      but many a critic, be he or she ever so spiny and ill-tempered,
      is hoping to ensure a better and brighter world.  But for all
      his or her curmudgeonly virtues, a pro critic is a BAD
      THING to set loose on a band of amateurs -- particularly
      unprepared amateurs who are honorably trying to pursue
      their education in the safe shallows of a supportive and
      interested community of peers.  When amateurs finally
      decide to make the break and go pro they'll  be appropriate
      game for the Big Game Hunters-- in the meantime it's best to
      treat them as a protected species, and let them develop some
      size and scope before cutting them down to size."

           "That leads us to the second approach to criticism.  This is
      the approach of the teacher, the editor, the workshop
      director, the dramatic director, the friend, and the peer.

           "The idea is that the work and the artist are both still 'In
      Progress.'   Comments are intended to help and support the
      artists, give them insight into their own work, provide a clear
      and accurate view of the responses the artist has generated,
      to make suggestions on areas of potential improvement, and
      provide information regarding the standard assumptions,
      skills, and craft of the trade.   Negative comments are as
      appropriate as positive ones, but they should be expressed
      politely, they should probably come in moderate doses, and
      they should be aimed at specific and clear-cut problem spots
      in a story or consistent patterns of failure in a series of
      stories.  The idea is to make it easier for the writer to see her
      own work clearly -- not to hurt her, make her ashamed, or to
      confuse the heck out of her."

      C.   BALANCE every negative comment you offer with a
      POSITIVE counterpoint.  Every author craves feedback, and
      sometimes that feedback may entail a few points of
      constructive criticism.  However, the old adage "If you can't
      say something nice, don't say anything at all." DOES apply!
      No matter how many 'constructive' points you may wish to
      bring up with the author, always preface these with at least a
      few points of what's GOOD about the piece of work.  Don't
      assume the author already knows, or it would be a waste of
      bandwidth, TRUST US, it's always a good idea.  Arguably,
      you should have at least ONE good point for every ONE
      criticism you offer.  If you find you have nothing good to say
      about the piece of writing at all, then ask yourself WHY
      ARE YOU WRITING to the author about it?  It can't be to
      help them improve, when you've got nothing good to say
      about their work as it is.  No one is that generous.

      D.   DO NOT CRITIQUE SIMPLY TO DISPLAY YOUR
      OWN ELOQUENCE.  No one likes an arrogant know-it-all.
      If you don't really care about whether the author improves
      his/her work at all, or if you're more concerned with
      showing off to a few hundred people just how much you
      know about the semi-colon, DON'T BOTHER.   Reread
      your critique BEFORE you send it off to the public forum.
      If it's more about you than it is about the author, everyone
      will know, and you won't make any new friends by it.

      E.   ALLOW DISAGREEMENT.  The person you're having a
      discussion with can and does have the right to disagree with
      your point of view.  Disagreeing with another person should
      NOT in any way, shape, or form, constitute an AD
      HOMINEM attack.  For those unaware, the definition of ad
      hominem from the Webster's English dictionary is: "marked
      by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an
      answer to the contentions made."  In other words "NO
      FLAMES OF ANY KIND."    If you attack another
      person's character, ethnicity, personal intellect, background,
      or social standing in any way, you may be removed from the
      list/discussion without warning.

      F.  EDITING vs. FEEDBACK - what does it all mean?

      "CRITIQUE", in it's purest form, has become almost an
      arcane practice, and certainly an esoteric one. A true
      critique is what you'll find in creative writing classes and
      on technical/creative writing forums in cyber space that are
      there mainly for writers who hope to improve their skills
      enough to become professional writers. However in the "fanfic"
      arena, they're all but nonexistent. Mainly because not every
      fanfic writer wants to become a pro, and because fanfic itself
      with so many shortcuts built in, doesn't always make the best
      stepping stone to pro writing. "Feedback" should not and is not
      an opportunity to reedit and rewrite someone's finished work.

           For the purposes of this FAQ, we wish to define a
      difference between what is to be considered FEEDBACK
      and what is otherwise EDITING.  The primary
      adjudicating factor is INTENT.

           Are you commenting on an author's overall story or any
      portion thereof, as a reader?  Or are you attempting to
      assist the author with their style, grammar, punctuation,
      etc...?

           What's the difference?  To do the former, one may almost
      always email the author privately and let them know how
      their story made you feel.  However, to do the latter, one
      should ALWAYS ask permission FIRST.  Even for
      private EDITING.  You may find that  without
      permission, an author is either hurt, or insulted (or both)
      by your attempt to edit their work  in an unsolicited
      manner.

           NEVER EDIT without permission.  And offer
      FEEDBACK, only if you feel you have something of
      constructive use to say.

           You may find that, while most authors on this list enjoy
      receiving FEEDBACK and will indicate as much on their work,
      whether they choose to receive their feedback publicly or privately,
      MOST authors on this list are NOT likely to enjoy an EDIT of their
      story, in any format, unless they've specifically REQUESTED as
      much, first.

      G.   FACTS vs. OPINIONS.  2+2=4 is a FACT.  Dean Cain is
      HOT is an OPINION.   Facts are generally not disputed.
      Opinions ARE.  Do not assume that simply because 95% of
      the rest of the forum may share your *opinion*, it is alright
      to berate or use an ad hominem attack against another
      person.

           Likewise, if you are stating an opinion, a good idea is to
      always preface it with some form of qualifier.  "It has been
      my experience that.." or "IMHO (in my humble opinion)" or
      "I believe that.."   all of these are examples of an individual
      putting forth their OWN thoughts and ideas.  Simply because
      we're all on a LOIS & CLARK discussion list, does not
      mean we must all believe that Dean Cain is HOT, for
      example.   The issue may be up for debate, but the integrity
      of those who are involved in the debate is NOT.

      H.   A DEAD THREAD is a thread which is closed by the LIST
      MODERATOR (Mom), at which point posting further on
      the subject may be grounds for your immediate removal from
      the list without notice.  Know when to concede an issue.
      There comes a point in time in ANY debate when further
      discussion is moot, and only leads to repetition.  It is NOT
      that important that you have the last word!

           Bow out gracefully with something like: "I'm afraid we'll
      simply have to agree to disagree."    We guarantee you, if
      you handle yourself that way, people will RESPECT you for
      it.

           If you still feel there is more to discuss, it is then your
      prerogative to email the debate participants PRIVATELY
      and continue without subjecting the public forum to the
      thread any farther.  A list moderator will not close a thread
      unless it becomes tiresome (to everyone), repetitive, or
      otherwise antagonistic.  Any form of direct attack will be cut
      off without warning.

           I.   POSTING FORMAT.  In the interest of clarity, we would
      like to distinguish FANFIC  posts from DISCUSSION. In
      order to do that, we ask that you please include an
      appropriate subject line with your stories in the form of:

      NEW: Story Title (1/24) [PG13]

           In this way, we hope to bring a little order to an otherwise
      fairly arbitrary configuration.  Additionally, within each
      chapter or part of your story, please include a short header
      at the top of EACH SEGMENT so that posts which do not
      appear in sequence, or may appear several days apart, are
      still recognizable.  The header should look like this:

      TITLE: My Story
      PART: (12/24)
      AUTHOR: Bob Smith
      RATING: (No greater than PG-13 please)
      FEEDBACK: Comments welcome PUB/PRIV.
                              No Editing please.
      SUMMARY:  blah blah blah

      J.   POSTING SIZE LIMIT.  Try to limit the size of your posts
      to the list to around a 20K maximum.  If you are unsure how
      to find out how large your post is before you mail it out, do
      some reading up on your own email program.  Don't be lazy
      about it, or assume it won't matter.   If you send off a huge
      post to the list, it will end up as an ATTACHED FILE in the
      mailboxes of some users and YOU will end up with a
      mailbox full of hate-mail because of it!  Attached files of any
      kind are NOT to be posted to the discussion group.
      Ignorance is bliss, but it's not an excuse.  Know Thy Email
      Program! ;)

      K.   POSTING RATING.  This is an ALL AGES list as it reflects
      a great deal of the content on the fanfiction archive as well.
      We maintain a PG-13 maximum rating on this list and within
      the Fanfiction Archive (http://lcfanfic.actwd.com/)
      Generally speaking, that means that if you'd see it on prime
      time TV, or if you could pull it from a supermarket grocery
      store shelf, you can probably post it here.

           Instances of explicit romantic/sensual content which border
      or cross the NC-17/R barriers are not shared in this venue.
      Failure to adhere to this guideline will result in your removal
      from the list.  Your work will not be posted to the archive,
      either.

           There ARE other venues for more explicit content in creative
      work, however we will not address them here.  Suffice it to
      say that if you are looking for these venues, they're not
      difficult to locate.

      L.   SPOILER SPACE.  When giving FEEDBACK, always include at least
      10 lines of space at the top of any email containing specific
      remarks or excerpts from a story which may reveal elements of
      it's plot.

        In this way, people who have not yet read the story, are
        far less likely to be 'spoiled'.  Something like this will
        suffice:
        s
        p
        o
        i
        l
        e
        r
        s
        p
        a
        c
        e

      M.   How do I get my work on the FANFIC ARCHIVE?  The
      answer is simple.  Visit: http://lcfanfic.actwd.com/ and read
      up on procedure in the Archive FAQ.  If you still have
      questions, send them to:  LCStories@cryogen.com

III.   FANFIC CRITICISM: WHO SHOULD DO IT & WHEN.

      A.   AUTHORS:  Please INDICATE on your creative work, if
      you intend to post it to a public venue, whether or not you
      desire criticism, constructive or otherwise, and to what
      extent.  An example might be:

           "All forms of comments and/or criticism are welcome
      PRIVATELY at bobsmith@hotmail.com"

      or

           "Comments welcome PRIVATELY at
      bobsmith@hotmail.com, please no negative remarks or
      flames."

      or

           "Comments, suggestions, criticism, welcome PUBLICLY or
      PRIVATELY.  Email me at sandrabrown@hotmail.com"

           If you DO NOT indicate your preference on your story, we
      will assume that it is OPEN to public remarks of any kind!
      Please be aware of this, and please mark your work
      accordingly.

      B.   ANYONE may offer comments.  Don't assume that only the
      seasoned pros out there are able to intelligently comment on
      a piece of writing.  If you feel you have a suggestion or
      comment to offer any given discussion, even a newbie can
      add their voice and enrich the debate.  We welcome all new
      input, so long as it is courteous and respectful to the rest of
      those in the forum.  Please make sure your comments will be
      welcomed by the author, and if so, post away!

      The following is an excerpt from Peg Robinson's
      "MANNERLY ART OF CRITIQUE"
      (originally posted to ASC  c. 1997)

           "Only crit those who have INVITED crit, or who have given
      you permission when you ask.  If they impose limits, like
      "I'm new at this, go easy, " respect those limits.  If they ask
      you to avoid particular types of crit, or conversely to pay
      particular attention to an area they are working on, respect
      those requests, too.  It's not a bad idea to consider writing
      and asking permission to do a serious public crit even if the
      writer HAS asked for that kind of feedback...and be prepared
      to at least give some idea of what you want to say.  It isn't
      that the writer lied when she asked -- but people change their
      minds, and even the most sincere find themselves quivering
      when the reaction they get is worse than they had really
      expected, so try making the extra effort in the interests of
      peace."

           "...try to be sure not to leap out of the shrubby and ambush a
      writer who was not expecting crit, or not expecting 'serious'
      crit.  No matter how naive that lack of expectation may
      appear to you, the fact is that there are two very different
      schools of thought as to what one can and should expect
      when making a public posting -- and it's best to assume the
      worst and compensate, rather than reduce a writer to tears or
      rage because she was not prepared for crit.  Treat it as a
      'multi-cultural' issue, and know that the two schools of
      thought are not in agreement, and need to work hard not to
      hurt each other inadvertently.

           "The point is not to 'win out' over the writer.  It's to help.
If
      you make a point, and it becomes clear that the writer can't
      use it, either through her failing or yours, or just because it
      doesn't fit at the time, and it isn't merely a matter of her
      misunderstanding what you were saying, then  *stop pushing
      it.*  I'm serious.  More damage has been done in crit by "I'm
      going to win you over or go down trying" attitudes than by
      anything else short of true malice."

      C.   DO NOT ASSUME CONTROL of another writer's piece of
      work.  By that we mean, do not send that writer criticism in
      the form of a laundry "to do" list, and do not rewrite their
      story for them "better" and send it back.  Doing so  will only
      rob the writer of his/her artistic input in the piece of work,
      and that is not the objective of constructive criticism.  Offer
      questions, advice in a subjective manner, and support in ideas
      only when asked to do so.

      D.   WORK with the writer only in so far as s/he WANTS the
      assistance.  If you begin with a writer who invites the critical
      help, and that writer then begins to waffle, or suggest that
      they no longer appreciate the input.. STOP.  Never assume
      that a *yes* in the beginning gives you absolute free rein to
      do as you see fit from that point on.  As difficult as it may be,
      if the author lets you know s/he doesn't want the advice
      anymore... back away and let it be.

IV. DEFINE "FAIR PLAY" IN CRITICISM & DEBATE

      Aside from the obvious (and everything else we've managed to
      impart thus far), there are certain tenants of fairness in discussion
      and feedback which we wish to address not only in terms of how
      a person should conduct THEMSELVES while participating in list
      discussion, but in terms of how we must deal with the occasional
      (unforseen) act of random rudeness and/or e-terrorism.

      A.   RUDENESS/INSULTS are bound to happen from time to
      time. There will always be those who don't care, or don't
      know any better, who choose to converse with others in a
      negative and/or abusive manner.  Profanity and personal
      insults will NOT be tolerated on this list or within the
      context of any discussion/creative piece of work.  There are
      other ways to communicate clearly and effectively, and there
      is no reason for us to employ vulgarity in order to get our
      opinions across.

           When someone FLAMES another person, or disregards the
      rules of engagement set forth in this FAQ, s/he will be
      removed from the list without notice.

      B.   DEALING WITH RUDENESS is simple.  Ignore it.  Do not
      respond to it, do not strike up a counter attack on the list.

           It is easy for people to become insulted and/or affronted by
      the appearance of profanity, spamming, flames or other sorts
      of negativity violating the rules of this list, however,
      responding to it will only FEED the aggressors.  Silence is
      golden.  Pretend the offenders aren't there and they will be
      far more affected than any 100 angry response posts might
      make them.  If we are to band together and defend our own,
      let us show that solidarity by shutting out the problem in the
      best possible way.  IGNORE THE OFFENDER.

      C.   HURT FEELINGS are bound to happen from time to time.
      Some people have thicker skin than others, and some people
      are offended by phrases as simple as: "I completely disagree
      with that."   So how do we decide what's 'fair' and what
      isn't?

           First of all, a DEBATE ISSUE stands on its own.  Even if it
      is YOUR idea, the fact that someone or a group of
      someone(s) may disagree with your IDEA does NOT mean
      that these persons are disagreeing with your right to exist on
      the planet.

           Try to take each comment with a grain of salt.  People's
      points of view are fallible, and by no means are they able to
      set you on the course of the rest of your life without your
      very participatory consent.  By that we mean, YOU decide
      what gets to you personally and what doesn't.  And no one
      can (or will) protect you from dissenting points of view.
      These are a part of life and a lively part of any public
      discussion forum.

           Generally speaking, if you KNOW you are easily hurt (and
      you should know that about yourself, if you're honest), then
      the best course of action is to AVOID DEBATE and request
      as little critical feedback on your creative work as you feel
      you will be able to accept.  You may also opt to only request
      positive feedback.

      D.   DEFENDING FRIENDS in a debate situation is iffy at best.
      Make certain, when you enter the debate, that you are
      prepared to become a very active participant if you defend
      another person's ideas.  People WILL think that you have
      something of value to add to the discussion and they WILL
      address you directly.

           Be prepared to BACK UP what you say.  If you have only
      entered the debate to make your best friend feel better, then
      you've entered for the wrong reason.

            Individuals may take care of themselves.  If they cannot take
      care of themselves, or are easily hurt, they should not enter
      into public discussion.  It is NOT your responsibility to
      bodyguard anyone else or their point of view.  We discuss
      IDEAS and CREATIVE CONCEPTS here, not people
      specifically.

           Critique and Debate are tag team competitive sports, and
      you will be drawn in, like it or not, if you make your voice
      heard on the issue.  Posting about the issue is an invitation to
      enter the discussion.

      E.   SPAM.  No chain mail, FWD: mail or petition mail of any kind
      will be allowed on this list.  Failure to adhere to this rule
      WILL result in your immediate removal from the list and your
      subsequent inability to resubscribe.

      F.   CAVEATS on messages must be used when posts are not of
      specific interest to the purpose of the list: Lois & Clark.
      While OFF TOPIC posting is generally frowned upon, there are
      sometimes instances where an off topic idea becomes of interest
      to more than a few members of the list and posting it would then
      be condoned.  In those instances, you MUST preface your SUBJECT
      heading with OT: for off topic posting, TAN: for posts
      which are offshoots of another thread and may deviate slightly
      from topic, and SPOILER: if you are going to spoil either your
      own story, or some other L&C related piece of media before it
      becomes widely available.

In a nutshell, use common sense, tact, and diplomacy and you'll be
fine.  Fan discussion forums are about like minded individuals
getting together and sharing their ideas, stories and creative muse
collectively.  They are not about making everyone into professional
authors, or automatons.

While there may be those individuals out there for whom
professional aspirations are their ultimate concern, the goal of the
fan discussion and creative writing forum is not to create such
individuals, nor to cater to their form of critical feedback.
Individuals who wish such critical feedback should get together
with others who feel similarly and do so PRIVATELY.

That said.. HAVE FUN!  That's what it's all about in the end. No
judgements, and no expectations other than mutual respect and
consideration for your fellow discussion partners.

=====================

This FAQ was compiled on 04/18/99, with the input and assistance
of  Demi, Farah Meitzen Chisham, Kathy Brown, the administrators
of the former LOISCLA, and the many varied voices of the members
of the Lois & Clark Fanfiction Listserver.

It is intended for posting on the LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
Fanfiction List and the Lois & Clark Fanfiction Archive.

Excerpts from Peg Robinson's "MANNERLY ART OF CRITIQUE"
(originally posted to ASC  c. 1997) have been cited with permission
by the author to freely distribute her words as necessary.  The
complete essay may be located by visiting the alt.startrek.creative
newsgroup and looking up: "THE MANNERLY ART OF
CRITIQUE".
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:33:01 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Grammar Question (and her own question :)

>> On another topic - can this list accept attachments?

As people have mentioned, it is against the rules to send attachments to
this
listserv.  As far as I know, we have actually disabled this function of this
list, so even if someone tried, they would be unable to.  I don't want to
send one out to test it (would I have to kick myself off? <g>), but this is
what Farah told me she did, after we discussed it. So I assume it's the
case.
I hope so! Prevents problems. :)

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:47:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT:  ARGH!  I feel rejected <g>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>Erin-  Read "The Circle of Quiet" by Madeleine L'Engel.  She tells about
the
>countless rejections she received from publishers before "A Wrinkle in
Time"
>was published.  As you know, it went on to win awards.  Keep trying!

I'll second Laurie's recommendation, and wanted to add that her last name is
spelled L'Engle, in case you do read the book, and look for it by her last
name. "Circle of Quiet" is one in a series of autobiographical works, but
L'Engle also writes wonderful fiction, both for kids (A Wrinkle in Time) and
for adults.

I've never published anything, so I can't offer any good advice, but as
someone who's hoping to be published one day, I wanted to recommend another
book, "The Novel & Short Story Writer's Market." I believe it's published
yearly (I have the 1997 copy and it's edited by Barbara Kuroff). It's a
useful
guide to anyone who wants to publish fiction, and includes large & small
presses, magazines, and publishers which specialize in certain markets, such
as sci-fi or romance. Good luck :)

Christy
kubitc@kenyon.edu

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:55:13 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kristin <superkris77@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (and Hey Melisma!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey!  OK, I never post here, I'm a major lurker, but I just wanted to add
that I
do like crossovers.  :)  And for Melisma (I'm also on the JAG list) I am
actually
working on a Lois and Clark/JAG crossover, but I'm stuck, so if you'd like
to try
to work together (or even read what I have so far) that'd be cool.
(Actually,
I'd appreciate constructive feedback, so if anyone wants to read what I have
so
far, that would be great.)

Kristin (superkris77@home.com)

Melisma wrote:

> At 04:17 PM 29/08/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> >I'll read cross-overs.  I like them more if I like the other show, but
> >knowledge of that show isn't critical if the story is well written.  I
only
> >saw B&B a time or two, but i enjoyed Becky's "Timeless".  If anyone wants
to
> >post a JAG croos over, I'll read it. (That's a hint to Felix and
Melisma).
> >
> >JOY :)
>
> Hehe, Joy, how's my JAG-lists pal? :) I've wanted to write a JAGfic for a
> while now, but I don't feel as confident with my own knowledge of the show
> as I do with Star Trek, XFiles and Lois and Clark. Perhaps now that I have
> all the old eps on tape (thanks Nancy Nissen :) that will change. I still
> have too many other fics in the works or planning, but I guess I could
> start thinking of a plot idea for a JAG/LnC cross...
>
> Melisma (feeling devious, here under her rock)
>
> Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:11:45 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback & crossovers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>> As much as I'd like to say that I would welcome all sorts of FDK, in all
>> honesty I would value the advice of someone who has written fanfic or is
>> writing fanfic, then from someone who has never written it!  The people
> who are writing and or who have written it, or looking at it from
experience.
>> The readers are only looking at it from an entertainment point of you.
>> All they can say is whether they like it or not.  While they may hate it,
it
>> may be different from someone else.

Like Labrat, I have to disagree with this as well. I value feedback by both
writers and non-writers, but I value it in a different way. If I receive
feedback from a writer whose stories I've enjoyed, it makes me feel like I
must have done something right, if someone whose stories I enjoy, likes
mine!

But I think feedback from non-writers (and from people whose fic either
isn't
my style, or I haven't read not) is important as well. After all, if you
have
aspirations to publish any writing, the majority of your audience will be
non-writers, and they will likely have very strong, valid opinions on what
you
have written. Non-writers can also see your writing in a different way. For
example, when I'm reading a story I sometimes wonder what I would have done
different (better or worse) if I was writing it; this can sometimes get in
the
way of my enjoying the story. I also sometimes wonder if I become too
critical
of other people's writing, since I've written a few stories myself.
Non-writers see stories in different ways; if they don't like a story,
there's
usually a reason, something that can be fixed such as poor characterization
or
a weak plot point.

Also,
>> Maybe someday someone will write a West Wing crossover :)

>    Christy, yes, please!!!
>    Wendy (who loves The West Wing)

Thanks, but I wish I could! The dialog in The West Wing is so precise and
distinctive, I could never even begin to know where to start writing it. As
a
small aside, Allison Janney, who plays CJ Cregg on the show, graduated from
the same college I did, and she came back last spring to give a talk. She
mentioned that Aaron Sorkin, who writes all West Wing eps, has such a set
way
of writing dialog, that, once when she removed a word, he stopped her and
reminded her of the word she'd left out. After trying it her way without the
word, she agreed that it sounded better with it, since Sorkin's writing has
such a set style and pace. (His characters all speak quickly, intelligently,
and have a very distinctive banter.)

Christy
kubitc@kenyon.edu

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:18:47 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <KathyBrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: "Perry Knows" (part 2 of 2)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Doris,

Thanks for posting your story.  I'm glad you are back to writing!

I liked, in your story, the fact that by part two, you have Perry
backing off on his method of putting Clark on the spot, trying to
"nail him" with the secret.  In part one, his attitude made me
uncomfortable, because I thought Perry, of all people, would
understand the necessity of Clark keeping such a secret.  So I was
really glad to see, at the beginning of part two, Perry realizing
that he had made Clark very tense and scared, and he felt guilty
about that.  Good characterization there.

The only thing that I wasn't sure about, though, was why it was
important to Perry that Clark tell him, why Perry felt it was even
his business.  Was it that he wanted to help Clark out in his job as
Superman, and felt that his being officially in on the secret would
do that?  Or was it more out of pride, that he felt he had earned the
right to know, by being a good friend and boss over the years?

I did get a smile on my face, though, when Perry started talking
about renovating the bathrooms to give Clark an easier place to exit
the newsroom. LOL.

All in all, a good story, Doris.  I haven't seen a Perry Revelation
story in awhile, and it's nice to see something different. :)

Kathy
--
______________________
Kathy Brown
kathybrown91@home.com
kathyb@lcfanfic.com
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:54:12 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/29/00 7:40:34 PM EST,
wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes:

<< But I would be amazed if Ann, or anyone else, sent you
 feedback which was entirely negative. In fact, I am aware of people who did
 try to be helpful in connection with your story, including pointing out an
 often-repeated grammatical error, and who received a very rude reply for
 their trouble. >>

I was not trying to flame Ann if that's what you think I was doing.  If it
came off that way then I apologize.  I was just saying I have yet to see
anything positive about anything I've written from her and other people
who've sent me FDK.  I have received positive FDK but a lot of it is so
terrible that it would make most people throw their hands up in frustration
and say FORGET IT!  I for one, don't let it bother me anymore.  If I enjoy
writing that's all that matters.  You either like it or you don't.  I have
some fans of my writing that I really appreciate and i think that this point
that's all i need.

Alexis ;-.)

"I don't mind people calling me a hunk, but it can mean a lot of things, if
it means a good looking, attractive person-that's fantastic.  If it means an
idiot in a nice package, it's not." -Dean Cain
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:20:43 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
In-Reply-To:  <20000829120312.6012.qmail@web902.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Irene said:
>Ack!  Of course, Becky's story isn't a deathfic!  I
>can't believe that I wrote that it was.

<g>  Well, I didn't think of it as one, but there =is= a death that happens
sort of off-camera, so I thought that's what you were thinking of.

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:52:51 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT:  ARGH!  I feel rejected <g>
In-Reply-To:  <a3.abde4cd.26ddafac@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 08:30 PM 8/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Erin-  Read "The Circle of Quiet" by Madeleine L'Engel.  She tells about
the
>countless rejections she received from publishers before "A Wrinkle in
Time"
>was published.  As you know, it went on to win awards.  Keep trying!
>LaurieD

Laurie!  I was gonna tell that story!  <g>

The MS was rejected =17= times before it was accepted.  It then went on to
win the Newbery Medal, which is =the= award in children's
literature.  Madeleine tells with great relish of being at a
publishing-type party one night after winning, and being approached by a
publisher who said, "I wish you'd sent that to =us=."  She was able to
answer, with no small measure of glee, "I did."  <g>

So hang in there, Erin.

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:10:14 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

WRITE IT!  WRITE IT!

--- Budmayes2@AOL.COM wrote:
> I just bought a copy of Terminator 2 Judgement
> Day the Ultimate Edition DVD.
>
> This thread has inspired a thought:
>
> How would Lois & Clark handle something like a
> Terminator 2000?
> Has Tempus found THE Ultimate weapon to destroy
> Superman and Utopia?

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:15:12 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Katie Johnson <BenFrog00@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? And Re: Why write? (LONG!)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Firstly, I want to apologize for not replying to your post sooner, Wendy.
You
raised some excellent points about what we as a fandom want from this list.
However, RL has been biting me in the buns so to speak lately, and I have
been forced to passively read (and sometimes not even that) the very
interesting discussion that has taken place.

I can't speak for others, of course, only myself, and imho, interest in Lois
and Clark has not waned. In fact, I think that the interest generated by the
show is growing, if anything. For example, there are new people showing up
on
Zoom's boards every day. I think that there are so many there because it is
accessible to a large amount of people, and a common search engine will pull
it up, whereas this list won't be. I like the boards, but lately they have
become a home to mud slingers and people who want to foist their opinions
onto everyone else, so I don't frequent many of the forums, except for the
fanfic one, and that one only when a certain story is recommended to me. I
don't feel as 'at home' on the boards if you will- to me, this list has a
feeling of family. Of course, I'm one of the wet-behind-the-ears newbies ;)
and probably am not one of the best judges of these things.

Re: FDK

I recently posted a fanfic I wrote, to Zoom's fanfic board and to this list.
I received fdk much faster from the boards than I did here. In fact, I
received no feedback from this list. Am I insulted? No. As Wendy said, fdk
is
much thinner on the ground here than it is on the boards.

 If I write again, I will probably post to the boards, because I like
getting
feedback- I want the criticism so I can improve my story or stories and my
skill as a writer. Granted, I know I will never be as good as most of you,
(Labrat, Wendy, Irene, Pam, Tank, the list is staggering) but I don't want
to
stagnate as a writer simply because my ability to write an a-plot stinks.

As for why I wrote, well, I wanted to create a release for both Lois and
Clark's emotions in BGDF as well as the entire NK arc. The idea sprang from
a
letter I read on this list, from Clark to Lois, and I am so sorry but I
can't
remember the author, however it was very, very well written. Jessi, are you
guilty? <g> Clark's emotions were portrayed very convincingly and
realistically, and I wanted to capture that, albeit in a different setting.

I don't find that ideas are difficult to come by, but I do believe in not
rewriting something that another author has done better.

Oh, I have to stop now, or I'll go on forever <g>
If you got this far, here's your merit badges for bravery and perseverance
;)

Katie Johnson
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:50:04 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Phillip Atcliffe <Phillip.Atcliffe@UWE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
In-Reply-To:  <20000830131014.10572.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

--- Budmayes2@AOL.COM wrote:

> This thread has inspired a thought:
> How would Lois & Clark handle something like a Terminator 2000? Has
Tempus found THE Ultimate weapon to destroy Superman and Utopia? <

I seriously doubt it. Although I know very little about the
capabilities of the Terminators (haven't seen the films), I can't help
feeling that, once he got into a straight fight with one, Superman
would have the thing on toast (think what happened to Metallo, only
worse). Of course, the trouble would be getting the beastie out in the
open where he could cut loose at it, and therein could lie a decent
story.

Phil, who has several crossovers of his own to write...
--------------------------------------------------------------
"If you let a smile be your umbrella... you'll get wet teeth!"
   -- a forgotten comedian, quoted by me: Phil Atcliffe
                                (Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:57:48 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Alexis wrote:

> I was not trying to flame Ann if that's what you think I was doing.  If it
> came off that way then I apologize.  I was just saying I have yet to see
> anything positive about anything I've written from her and other people
> who've sent me FDK.  I have received positive FDK but a lot of it is so
> terrible that it would make most people throw their hands up in
frustration
> and say FORGET IT!  I for one, don't let it bother me anymore.  If I enjoy
> writing that's all that matters.  You either like it or you don't.  I have
> some fans of my writing that I really appreciate and i think that this
point
> that's all i need.
>
Alexis, obviously I've never seen any of the fdk which you refer to. But,
like Wendy, and as someone who knows Ann well and counts her a friend, I
have to say that I'm finding it rather difficult to imagine that she would
send you fdk that wasn't intended to be helpful in pointing out errors.

I could be entirely wrong, but I'm sensing some confusion from you as to
what constitutes positive fdk. Positive fdk isn't solely 'This fic is great!
Write more!' - although it's definitely part of it and most welcome in any
author's mailbox. It's also constructive criticism, the pointing out of
potential plot glitches, grammatical errors and supposed character flaws.
Provided this is done politely and with due consideration for the author's
feelings, this is not negative criticism for the sake of it. This is
generally what is intended when an author asks for constructive criticism or
'any comments welcome'. And it is generally what can be expected from
readers if you place this on your fic when you post.

No one would force you to accept fdk. If you indicate that you would like
constructive criticism though I don't think you can complain when you
receive it. I know that I have seen authors' comments on Archive fic which
ask for 'ILTF' fdk (I Like This Fic!) only and no constructive criticism, so
perhaps you could choose that option when posting your fic in the future.
That way you will receive exactly what you want and there will be no
confusion in the minds of your readers as to whether they are wasting their
time in sending anything more robust or critical.

LabRat :) (who prefers the term constructive criticism to negative fdk,
which seems so...well negative. ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:56:02 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Reynolds, Raymond H." <REYNORA@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite type of story
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Since we all agree that we make of this list what we put in I feel more
inclined to contribute lately, and with interesting questions like this it
makes it so much easier.

I am a lot like another reader, Kate, as I too am a low maintenance fan.
I'll read just about anything as long as the writing isn't so bad that I get
turned off by reading it. But I have to say that long stories of almost any
type are my favorites. I really enjoy it when a writer takes the time to
explore the situation or the characters they have decided to work with.
Whether it is an intricate A plot like Nan's or a lot of introspection and
angst like Wendy's, I love em as long as they're LONG!

I don't have too many types of stories that I won't read. I can handle
deathfic if the author deals with the subject in a respectful manner, after
all death and dying are a natural part of the life process so I would think
it would affect our heroes. The kind of story that I have the hardest time
reading is one where, because of his departure for New Krypton, Lois marries
someone else. The currently recommended story "Ad Astra Per Aspera" by Becky
Bain is one that I have purposely put off reading due to that subject
matter. I don't mind a story that makes one cry, I've read enough of those
and enjoyed them,Demi's "Heavens Prisoners" comes to mind here, but not
seeing Lois and Clark together is my bugaboo. The only other story I can
remember that did that to me was "Three Grandmothers" but I forget the
author. I read that not knowing the subject matter and I was really sad
about that whole thing so I don't know if I'll give Becky's story a try or
not, but certainly not for a while.

I hope I haven't bored everyone to tears with another long post, but this is
a very interesting topic and I tend to get wordy at times.

Ray
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:09:30 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Recommendation
In-Reply-To:  <F19voFOAmEaJswFCHOz00002622@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Randi said:
>But I just finished Becky Bain's "Ad Astra Per Aspera"
>and really enjoyed it!

Thanks!

>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
>
>S
>P
>A
>C
>E
>>
>>
>Tom was a great character, who I never expected
>to like, but there you go.  Becky made me like him. :) (Darn it!)

<g>  A friend of mine, one of my beta-readers, wants to marry him!  (Though
what she's going to do with the husband she already has, I'm not sure!)

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:08:13 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have only one further comment at this time.

This question has generated more comment than I've seen in a long time.

And that has to be good!

Thanks, Wendy.

It's two days later and I just caught up on the earlier hundred odd emails,
only
to find even more in my box - the bulk of them from this listserv.

What a great group we are.  Intelligent, articulate, interested in many
aspects of writing and life in general.  Keep it up.  I'll work my way out
of
the deluge somehow.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:08:52 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 8/26/00 8:54:42 PM !!!First Boot!!!,
kathybrown91@HOME.COM
writes:

<<
 What I'd like to see more of, given that not as many people have been
posting
 their stories here, is feedback on Archive stories.  This was quite common
in
 the early days of this listserv.  Why has it stopped?  I do see several
 recommendations for stories on the Archive, but almost zero commentary or
 discussion about them. Why? >>

I can answer this one for me.  I may be completely wrong, but I used to
think
that once a story is posted to the Archive it's not going to be changed, so
why make suggestions for improvements and an author at this point certainly
doesn't need negative criticism.

Am I wrong?  Please advise, Kathy.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:11:28 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I don't know about the comics, but It's also used
in the Dawning series by Debbie Stark,
but since I got to both series late, I don't know which came first.

But for me it was Debbie's stories

Charlotte - who has to admit
that she didn't like the whole Murray Brown agent idea
and so takes the tack in her LnC engaged series that Superman
decided against Brown's offer at the end of ILTY.

<<
Actually, I think it is canon ... I believe that the show set it up in
"I'm Looking Through You", the one where that guy wanted to be his
agent... not my favorite episode, so I haven't rewatched it in, oh,
years, but that's my theory..>>
--
BTW as to it being show cannon,
didn't anyone notice
that in WWW,
one of the lawyers suggests
going after the people making money from Superman
Doesn't that kind of
negate it being show cannon?

PPS.  I love Dawning and
Debbie uses the idea well so this is all
MHO and is not to be construed to tell anyone
how to write their fiction.

Charlotte - who'd better shut up before she get herself
in trouble.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:11:44 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/28/00 1:32:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM
writes:

<< Elisabeth and I were riveted the entire time reading it  >>

That's all very well James, but don't you have a fiction to finish. (BG)

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:16:47 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Charlotte wrote, re. Superman Foundation and Murray Brown:

> BTW as to it being show cannon,
> didn't anyone notice
> that in WWW,
> one of the lawyers suggests
> going after the people making money from Superman
> Doesn't that kind of
> negate it being show cannon?

No; what it does show is the writers again ignoring continuity. When
Superman agreed to Murray Brown becoming his agent at the end of ILTY, he
insisted that all profits went to charity. So there wouldn't be a lot of
money being made from merchandising (some, because I'm not fool enough to
imagine that any manufacturers would make toys, clothing etc and not get
some return). But everything being produced would be produced under license,
therefore manufacturers would have Superman's permission. That would flow
from Superman using Murray Brown, regardless of whether or not a Foundation
was established.

> PPS.  I love Dawning and Debbie [snip]

Err... Charlotte, you know Debby hates having her name mis-spelled! <g>

Wendy

--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:36:52 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT:  ARGH!  I feel rejected <g>
In-Reply-To:  <4.3.2.7.1.20000829235001.00b063d0@pop.clsp.uswest.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Becky wrote:
>The MS was rejected =17= times before it was accepted.  It then went on to
>win the Newbery Medal, which is =the= award in children's
>literature.  Madeleine tells with great relish of being at a
>publishing-type party one night after winning, and being approached by a
>publisher who said, "I wish you'd sent that to =us=."  She was able to
>answer, with no small measure of glee, "I did."  <g>

LOL!!  Wow, what a great story!  I bet it felt *great* for her to be able to
say that.  <g>  Thanks for cheering me up, guys.  I guess I'll just keep
plugging away.  :)

Erin (who is feeling much better today about this ;)
__________________
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             *****
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:45:31 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Coming late on this one, sorry <g>.

Irene asked:
> What is your favourite type of story and why?  What
> ones do you skip over and why?

The straightest answer I could give to this question would be:
'If it's angsty, then I'm happy' <G>.

Seriously, and without an ounce of hesitation, I'd say my favourite genre
has always been long-pre-revelation-falling-in-love-angsty stories <g>. I'm
fascinated with Lois's growing feelings for Clark, and her own surprise that
she would fall in love with her partner even more than with Superman. I'm
also very interested in reading about Lois and Clark's fear to get involved
in a romantic relationship together, whether it's because of past federal
disasters, or because of a secret identity that constantly gets in their
way. Whether the actual revelation is included in the fic or not doesn't
really matter to me: for example, LabRat's 'Burnout' is one of my very
favourite fanfics, and it's not a revelation story (btw, Labby, when will
you release 'Second Degree Burns'? ;)).

Basically, what I'm looking for in a story is angst (and the angstier the
better <g>), mixed with some humour, lots of waffy moments, loads of
introspection, and sensuality (and it doesn't need to be nfic to be
sensual)... I want each story to evoke a special emotion within me. If it
gets me tearful, makes me shiver, makes me cry, or makes me laugh, then I
love it (and if it's all of that at the same time, I'm in heaven),
regardless of the genre. For example, I've never been a huge fan of
post-marriage fanfics, but Wendy Richards's 'For the Greater Good' and
LabRat's 'Caped Fear' both made me cry buckets, proving to me that there are
always exceptions. So I can't really say what categories I don't like, since
every time I've decided that there was one style that I couldn't enjoy,
there has been at least one fanfic that would prove me wrong and reconcile
me with the genre.

Helene :)
kaethel@club-internet.fr
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:58:09 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hey Erin! Great question!

> > So what about you writers out there?  Do many of you start out with one
single
> scene idea for a story and then start the ball rolling from there, like I
tend
> to do?  Or am I the weird one?  :)

For me it varies. Sometimes the premise comes to me first, and I then have
to work out the elements of the story which get me this premise - for
example, what if Lois was pregnant with Superman's baby without knowing that
S=CK, and if Clark didn't remember sleeping with Lois? That idea turned into
It Happened One Super Night. Or - a later idea - what if HiM was taken a
step further and L&C had to pretend to be lovers in front of Lois's family
for a weekend? That's the story I'm currently writing.

But sometimes it is a scene: I woke up one morning with a vivid picture, as
if I'd seen it on TV, of an old and invalid Perry White asking Clark to kill
him so that he couldn't reveal Clark's secret. That was my motivation for
writing a story called A Love So Long In The Making; I had to find somewhere
to put that scene. Another time, I visualised Lois and Superman trapped
somewhere, Superman without powers, and Lois saying to him that since he
really *was* an ordinary man, with no powers at all, how could he refuse to
believe that she loved him? That became An Ordinary Man, which I know some
people would have preferred a different ending to... ;)

> So *how* do you guys flesh out your ideas into stories?

Oh... that's the question, isn't it? Mostly, I just think about them until I
find a way to make them fit, and usually it's not too difficult (for some
reason, I don't seem to have a HD with lots of unfinished story ideas,
although there are a couple which I might never write). With one called
'When Lightning Strikes Twice,' there were several ideas I wanted to
include: the Super-powered Lex was only one of them. I'd toyed with the
notion of an angry revelation for some time, and it seemed to fit here, and
I'd also wanted to write Clark thinking that Lois was afraid of him because
of his powers - again, that fitted in this premise.

There's another story which I've just resurrected from my hard drive after
about eighteen months; I've finally worked out a way to turn the initial
idea into a story, but until recently I'd thought that was one which would
ultimately end up in the recycle bin.

> And when do you find
> yourself coming up with your ideas the most?

When don't I? <g> Well, okay, probably not when I'm teaching or in
departmental meetings, which is just as well - though sometimes immediately
after something work-related I'll think that this is something which would
go well in a story! Anyone who's read When Lightning Strikes Twice might
remember a really awful business dinner near the end: I went to that
dinner... :(

I get ideas... when I wake up, while I'm driving to work (I once wrote an
entire story in the car on the way to work, and then had to work late to
make up for the time spent typing it up!), while walking around, when
talking to other FoLCs, when watching TV or reading books, when reading
other fics, you name it! Sometimes it's the premise which comes to me - a
very brief 'what if such and such happened,' sometimes it's a scene; either
way, once I have the idea I can't wait to start writing it!

On another matter, reverting to my mini-whinge of last week <g> it's great
to see lively chat here again! I've really missed the way this list used to
be. It's amazing that we went over quota - and what a nice surprise it was a
couple of hours ago when the list 'burped' and 22 items of held-over mail
arrived in my inbox. Long may it last!

Wendy

--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:23:50 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:08:52 EDT, Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM> wrote:

>I may be completely wrong, but I used to think
>that once a story is posted to the Archive it's not going to be changed, so
>why make suggestions for improvements and an author at this point certainly
>doesn't need negative criticism.
>

I'll take this one, Charlotte! Yes, *that* story may be finished, but
there's a good chance the author may write more fics. And s/he will write
better fics if people who read that fic and thought 'But what about...?'
actually tell that writer what worked and what didn't. That's both
encouragement and help. It tells the writer that you actually want them to
write more and to write better.

Last year, I wrote a series called Big Boys Do Fly, which (a novelty for
me) had something of an A-plot, though without realising it I concentrated
far more on the B-plot, the relationships between the characters. Sheila
Harper, a writer whose talent I am in awe of, wrote to me some time
afterwards explaining that I had neglected the A-plot by the way the story
was constructed, and with the aid of the examples she quoted me from the
story I could see her point very clearly. The pacing was wrong in quite a
lot of the third part of the trilogy. I didn't rewrite the story - neither
she nor I saw the point in doing that. But I remember her advice, and have
tried to take it on board in other stories since.

So, yes, it is definitely worth giving constructive criticism to a
completed story! No author's work is perfect, and we can all do with being
told the elements which readers liked or didn't like, felt worked or felt
did not work. Okay, we might not always agree: I haven't always agreed with
everything a reader has said about my story, but I still welcome the
comments, because it makes me think about *why* I chose the particular plot
direction in question. I should be able to justify my choices within a
story; if I can't, then that suggests I haven't thought it through clearly
enough. If someone says that my characterisation is out, then if I can't
justify that, perhaps I haven't reconciled my characters sufficiently well
with their TV versions.

For all those reasons, Charlotte, can I suggest that it's definitely not
too late to comment beyond 'great story, liked it' once a story is on teh
Archive.

Wendy
----------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:27:47 CDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Crossovers (Was Re: What is your favourite type of story?)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>Maybe someday
>someone will write a West Wing crossover :)
>

Ooh, that's weird, Christy.  I'd just said about ten minutes before that one
L&C crossover I didn't think anyone would ever write is West Wing.  For some
reason, the two universes just don't seem to mesh.  Maybe because the
majority of the leaders on L&C were either evil or idiots.  But, you know,
maybe Lois and Clark could show up in the West Wing universe and be
surprised that the leaders aren't either one. <g>

Anyway, if you were to write one, I'd be first in line to read.

Jessi
jessi914@hotmail.com
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:49:47 CDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? And Re: Why write? (LONG!)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Katie said:
>As for why I wrote, well, I wanted to create a release for both Lois and
>Clark's emotions in BGDF as well as the entire NK arc. The idea sprang from
>a
>letter I read on this list, from Clark to Lois, and I am so sorry but I
>can't
>remember the author, however it was very, very well written. Jessi, are you
>guilty? <g> Clark's emotions were portrayed very convincingly and
>realistically, and I wanted to capture that, albeit in a different setting.

Yeah, that would be me. <g>  And thanks.

Jessi
(who took the idea for that one in the first place from Irene's Spying Game
<g>)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:55:13 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Okay, here are more questions for the writers on this
list.

How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?  Do
you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
do you edit every sentence as you write it?  Do you
struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
you make haste to get it all down on paper?  How much
input do you give your beta-readers?

Again, I'll start with my response.  (I get to do that
when I'm the one who asked the question! [g])

I will jot ideas down longhand if I'm AFK, but I can't
write unless I'm at the keyboard.  Most days, I let it
flow.  Once I've written a scene or two, then I go
back and edit.  And edit.  And edit some more.  I used
to struggle to get the characters to do what I wanted,
but now I sit back and let them do their own thing.
The results tend to be much better that way.

I give my beta-readers (and I include those who read
works in progress on Zoom's boards, too) quite a bit
of input, as I have found that their suggestions
really help things flow better.  I've made innumerable
changes resulting from these suggestions.  (Of course
I've got great beta-readers in Wendy, Laurie, Karen
and the board denizens)

Time for someone else to answer.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:49:19 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Alexis wrote:
> I have
> some fans of my writing that I really appreciate and i think that this
point
> that's all i need.

Alexis, believe me, as a new writer, I can tell you that one of the best
feedback you can get is constructive criticism (like LabRat, I much prefer
this term to the 'negative feedback' one), precisely because it tells you
what you can do to improve not only the story you're writing, but also your
style in general. The people who are sending you comments like those are
just trying to help. Sure, there's the occasional flame, and I don't think
that's something you can really avoid, unfortunately, but most of the FoLCs
on this list are very helpful whenever they send comments, and they don't
only tell you 'this story is bad'.

And being a fan of a writer doesn't mean praising them only. There are
several authors whose writing I admire very much, on this fandom, some of
them I'm lucky enough to be a beta-reader for, but when I send them comments
about the latest part of their work in progress, I don't send praise only. I
try to tell them what I like and also what I think needs reworking, or
tweaking, and I try to make suggestions to that effect.

The same goes the other way around. When I get fdk from other FoLCs, it's
not necessarily praise, but it's always very helpful, and it always makes my
day. Even if I don't always follow their suggestions (I'm stubborn <g>), I
do pay attention to them, and I always tell them the reasons why I'm not
keen on changing the line or scene they're challenging. At least that's what
happens with my beta-readers (whether they write stories on their own or
not, btw - one of them isn't a writer and she's made wonderful suggestions),
but I think it's almost the same with people who send you fdk when you post
on the list or the MBs (maybe less detailed, but very helpful, and always
worth giving it a thought).

No-one is asking you to accept everything you're suggested. But FoLCs who
are sending you feedback have taken some of their time to do that, and that
shows they care. That alone, IMHO, deserves respect.

Helene :)
kaethel@club-internet.fr
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:58:20 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Melisma <melisma@INTERGATE.CA>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
In-Reply-To:  <20000830195513.18877.qmail@web903.mail.yahoo.com>
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At 12:55 PM 30/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Okay, here are more questions for the writers on this
>list.
>
>How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?  Do
>you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
>do you edit every sentence as you write it?  Do you
>struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
>want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
>you make haste to get it all down on paper?  How much
>input do you give your beta-readers?

How do I write? One letter at a time... I combine those letters to make up
words - oh... how do I *write* write? :::slaps forehead as she gets it:::

I sometimes compose at the computer, but usually I write longhand, at least
for the rough draft. That's 'cause I tend to get ideas when I'm not at the
computer, and I have to flesh it out right away or I forget them. So I
carry at least one notebook with me wherever I go (and my parents wonder
why I have to carry a backpack :) just in case inspiration strikes. Writing
is very laborious for me. I get blocked really easily. I tend to write my
drafts double-spaced 'cause I cross out so much even in just the first
little bit I get down. Depending on how soon I get to the computer after
drafting, I may edit a lot in the notebook before I transfer the text to a
textfile on my laptop. In any case, as I type I'm also editing what I'm
entering. And then I edit some more. I've been criticised that I overedit
myself, that I could get more done if I edited everything after I finished.
But I'm a Melancholy temperament, and that's the way I do things :) I
welcome beta readers, and value their input. I do pretty well with grammar
and puntuation and mechanics like that, so the most value I get from my
betas is with plot holes and inspiration (read a kick in the butt when the
muse is being recalcitrant...) - but recently someone cricized the way I
always vary the 'he said' parts of conversation, for eg. That made me think
about how I write conversation, and so I'm trying to take that person's
advice into consideration from now on... And sometimes my beta will point
out a recurring spelling or punctuation error, so I know I'm not perfect on
that either :)

Sorry I haven't jumped into the earlier threads - I'm really swamped with
RL, what else is new? But I'm really happy to see the list picking up
again. Kathy, any way we could set the list so it doesn't shut down the
conversation after 75 posts in a day?

Melisma (crawling back under her rock to continue cataloguing all the board
fics she has yet to save onto her hard drive to read later...)

Visit my rock at http://www.intergate.ca/personal/melisma/index.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:23:08 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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In a message dated 8/30/00 8:54:17 AM EST, kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR writes:

<< Do you think that writing L&C fanfic makes authors any more of
professional
 critics than just reading it?
  >>

Like I told Lab in a private email, it's not that I'm completely ruling out
non-writers, it's just that I'm a newbie writer when it comes to all of
this,
so I tend to go towards the "veteran" writers.  I have too many questions
that need to be answered.  I welcome all FDK from anyone.  I guess my post
just came out the wrong way.  I want to write professionally so that's why I
tend to gravitate towards advice from the "veterans."

No matter who one goes towards for advice, I don't see why my views would
have to be ripped apart.  We can take and ignore any piece of advice we get!
That's what makes writing so unique!

Alexis ;-.)

"Don't fall for me farmboy, I don't have time for it."
(Lois) {"Pilot", LnC}
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:26:16 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am the opposite of Melissma,  I much prefer to
compose on screen.  Whenever I write longhand, it
usually never reaches the screen the same way I
wrote it.

I love to tweek things to death, or at least I
used to until I started posting on the UBB.  The
first several installments of 7DOS was murder to
let go.  And even then I later went back and
changed them.

Usually I will also let an idea brew in my brain.
 Most times that is good,  as I will work out all
the details ahead of time before I lay finger on
a keyboard.

Then there was Part 23 that most people said
'Uh-uh.  Ain't gonna happen.  Change it or lose
readers.'  (actually the sentement was not quite
that strong but even Elisabeth sided with UBBers!
 What's a writer to do but bow to the wisdom of
the readers. Sigh.)  It was late and I was
thinking nasty things about certain divisions
that were supposed to send us data transmissions
12 hrs earlier and had not come in yet.  Yes, I
stay until they all come in!

Anyway that is my two cents.
James, who is still brewing part 24 in his head.
Mix a concussion with a liberal dose of sunlight
and an hormonealy driven pregnant woman and stir
vigorously...

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:33:29 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Melisma wrote:

> At 12:55 PM 30/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >Okay, here are more questions for the writers on this
> >list.
> >
> >How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?  Do
> >you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
> >do you edit every sentence as you write it?  Do you
> >struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
> >want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
> >you make haste to get it all down on paper?  How much
> >input do you give your beta-readers.

Well, I'm sure I'll disappoint all five of my fans, but I usually write the
first draft out longhand.

Normally, I have an outline of the plot and where I want to go with it
before I
start writing, even if it's only a few general notes, and I sketch the
scenes
in outline before I write them, although now and then a scene will pop into
my
head and I'll just write it, and see where it goes.   Inside the scenes, I
allow my characters a lot of latitude to do and say what they want, although
I
try to keep it within the parameters of the scene itself.

The funny thing is, when I'm writing the initial rough draft, I just can't
be
as creative on a computer as I can writing the whole thing by hand.  Then,
depending on when I can get back to the computer, I may or may not make a
lot
of edits, also by hand.  This is probably a habit caused by the fact that
when
I started writing, I did it all in longhand.  In the evening, also, it gets
pretty chaotic around here and sometimes I just have to take a notebook and
a
pen and retreat to my bedroom where I can write in relative peace. Later,
when
I transfer it to the computer, I often edit and revise as I'm typing, and
sometimes then an idea will occur to me that didn't before, and I'll end up
doing a big part on the computer, but at least the first draft is always
handwritten. (You have no idea how much written-on notepaper gets thrown
away
around here after I've finally gotten a story onto the computer).  Later I
go
back and read it over again and edit some more.

I usually rely on the readers on the message boards and their feedback to
catch
little glitches and to sometimes make suggestions for things that I hadn't
thought of.  If I think they tie in well enough they end up in the story,
which
is why I often acknowledge their help on a story when it hits the Archive.
I
read it over two or three times more after it's finished before it gets sent
to
the Archive, too, and usually make more edits at that time.

After I'm finished with a story, I usually go through a period when I have
absolutely no ideas at all, which can last anywhere from a few days to
several
weeks.  That's when I feverishly read everything I can by other writers,
trying
to get my brain to settle down into writing mode.  Eventually it does, and
the
ideas start popping up again.  (Okay, so my writing style is strange.  You
asked <g>)

Nan
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:31:35 +0100
Reply-To:     dom-mel@dial.pipex.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Dom Melaragni <dom-mel@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Subject:      Lots of answers.....
In-Reply-To:  <04ff01c0129b$186e8160$916105a0@hrm.keele.ac.uk>
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Good to see so many posts on this list again.  I've lurked for a long
time but as I've finally started writing fic again, it's probably a good
time to write a post too.

Favourite fics
I used to read everything that went onto the archive.  I remember
saving the fics that Rhen sent out back in early 95 to disk so I
could take them with me when I left University.  Now, I don't have
time to read everything so I tend to read the longer fics.

Like many people, I tend to prefer those early fics where Lois &
Clark aren't quite together but come together during them.  I rarely
read next generation ones - particularly ones that deal with L&C's
descendants entirely.  Perhaps when I have more time, I'll go back
and try to get into them.

I also tend to dislike New Kryptonian ones although I'm in the
middle of writing one.  It's probably because I don't like the idea of
New Kryptonians at all so perhaps writing this fic will be therapeutic!

Why write and where do ideas come from?
My first fic was 'Twas the Night Before Christmas'.  I was on my
way to London on a train to meet some FoLCs and wave at Teri,
when I figured that planning an LnC Christmas (it was late
November) was a good way to spend a 4 hour journey.

Whisky Galore arrived because I was on a very crowded train in
Scotland.  There was a very attractive guy sitting opposite me with
his girlfriend (sadly) but his legs kept touching mine under the table
(accidentally, I'm sure!).  I thought how interesting it would be if you
were there with someone you knew *but* as I'd never been on an
American train at that point, I had to find a reason for Lois and
Clark to be in Scotland.  Oh yes, the urge to have Clark in a kilt
came into it too!

As far as my reputation for slotting Flakes into my fic, I have to
confess that it was entirely accidental!  The first Flake was an
afterthought inserted into 'Twas the Night' because I couldn't see
Lois eating vanilla icecream without some chocolate on it.  I quite
honestly thought that the chocolate body paint in that story would
make far more of an impression.  The feedback I received (aside
from allowing me to create a mental map of every outlet around the
world selling Flakes) suggested otherwise and Flakes made an
encore appearance in the next three fics.  It was good to see a new
Flake on the market - perhaps I'll manage a Snow Flake fic this
winter.

Feedback...
Like all authors, I love it!  It makes the effort spent in writing
worthwhile when someone tells you they enjoyed it etc.  Feedback
which asks questions about a fic is also very useful.  Depending on
how contradictory it is, it gives an author very helpful insights to
which sections might need clarification or strengthening.  'Whisky'
has various versions in both general and nfic and each revision has
elements of readers' comments and views included.

Lastly....how do I write?
It entirely depends on the story although I do tend to write in
storybook order even although I might have a scene in mind for
later in the fic.
Whisky wrote itself - I'm still fairly surprised at myself when I look
back and realise that I completed it in about 4 days.
Since then, I've planned a little more.  My current project is planned
out in some detail on paper (longhand) which I did on buses/trains
to work etc.  I also tend to imagine roughly how a scene might play
out while on public transport etc.
Writing I do on PC.  I find it much easier to edit, change my mind
and move text around.  I also like to get the fic out to beta readers
and an audience as soon as possible so writing long hand only to
type it all into a PC would irritate me!

This monster post was more than I intended on writing....back to
lurking and writing under my rock.

Dom
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:49:30 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

Alexis wrote:

>I have received positive FDK but a lot of it is so
> terrible that it would make most people throw their hands up in
frustration
> and say FORGET IT!

Out of curiosity, exactly what is "terrible positive feedback"?  I can
easily
figure out useless positive feedback -- when you are stuck on a point, and
you *know* it's wrong, yet the person you asked tells you "I have no
suggestions; it's perfect".  But I would never call that terrible ... just
not helpful at that moment.

So what is terrible positive feedback?

To answer the other questions that have been raised on this great thread,
yes, I agree that "constructive criticism" and flames/"negative feedback"
are
not the same thing -- there is a big difference between being told "I don't
think Clark would do this because X, Y and Z" and "you are the worst writer
ever!!" ;)

As for commenting on stories already on the Archive, yes, they may be
considered completed by their authors and for that reason, an author may not
be interested in editing (grammar, punctuation, etc.), but that *doesn't*
mean the author doesn't deserve to know what the reader reaction was.  Where
is it written that once a story is sent to the Archive, it is off limits for
anything other than 100% positive feedback?  You never send a private email
to an author telling them what you liked and didn't like about a story?

This list is made up of people who love to read and write fanfic, and
discussions about plot choices, characterization and other such things are
exactly what holds many people's interest.  Telling an author you didn't
like
something about a story isn't the same thing as telling them "I demand you
rewrite this!"  Rather, it is an opening for a discussion, a way to ask
questions about why the made the choices they did, and to debate different
views on those choices.

Most authors I know *love* discussing their stories, and that includes
explaining their views on the character.   The point is not to make the
author change anything (unless a point is raised which really hits them, in
which case, they might want to rewrite) but to enter a discussion about the
story, and how it made you feel.

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:02:57 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      From List Mom -- List Volume, Critique info

Hi everyone,

1) List Volume:  As many of you noticed, we hit out maximum number of daily
posts yesterday, and it froze the list up.  I cannot release the list
myself,
but I wrote Farah, and she did it this morning.  Our daily max is 75 posts,
and although I did ask Farah if it was possible to increase that number, I'm
not really sure it will be needed.  I honestly can't remember the last time
we hit that many posts in one day, so I'm not sure yet whether this was a
fluk or not.  If we continue to bump up against it, though, we definitely
will try to increase it.

In the meantime, keep posting everyone!  But please keep in mind the simple
listserv rules of courtesty that we all should have learned long ago --
don't
send "me too" posts, don't send what amounts to a private "hello" message to
the entire list ... in essense, think before you hit send.

But I have to say this has been a lot of fun.  I can't believe how many
posts
have been coming through, and they are almost all wonderfully thought
provoking.  Keep up the great posts, everyone.

2) Critique info -- Thanks, Demi, for reposting the critique info from last
year.  Just FYI for everyone, a new Listserv FAQ is being
finalized/uploaded,
and the information in this post (updated with new URLs, revised a bit for
content) is linked to in the new document.

Thanks everyone,

Kathy -- List Mom
kathybrown91@home.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:21:12 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <MPSL27@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hey;)
I write all my ideas down on paper.  When I don't have access to a computer,
I write down entire scenes.  Otherwise, I use the computer because I'm
always
making changes.  Some days I'll just write and write and write.  The next
day, I'll take out about 90% of what I wrote, because I decide it's not very
good.  ("What WAS I thinking when I wrote that?!"<g>)  On those days, I'll
do
a lot of editing and try to fill in little pieces of the story here and
there.  Whenever I get a new idea, I'll write it down.  Then I'll look at
all
the ideas on my paper and pick a few and try them out.  Some of them make
the
story better, and others must be discarded.  After about 5,326,012 revisions
or so<g>, I might decide I'm finished.  Two days later, I'll think of
something I should change or add.  It's an incredibly long process.  (It
doesn't help that I'm a procrastinator.)  It always makes me wonder how some
people can actually send out more than two or three fanfics a year.  HOW do
they DO that??  How do they have the time?  (That's my other problem--I have
a lack of free time.)  ;)

Mols
:D
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:54:39 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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More questions guaranteed to produce interesting answers, Irene!

> How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?

-----I usually start writing in my head.  I walk 3 miles almost every
morning and as I walk, I write.  I create scenes and rework them until I can
find time to get to the computer to set them down.  Writing in longhand is
too slow for me because I can't keep up with what my brain is telling me. I
have, however,  written in longhand while sitting waiting for my husband as
he checks out ham-radio or kayaking or marine equipment. I started composing
at a keyboard on an old portable Smith-Corona  typewriter when I was in
college. (Yes, children that was a lo-o-ong time ago.)

 Do
> you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
> do you edit every sentence as you write it?

-----When I put a scene into a computer, I just let it flow, Occasionally
stopping  to get the words just right.  Once it's down, I spend a lot of
time editing and revising. I'm never completely  finished with a scene until
it has finally gone to the Archive, so I'm constantly twitching and
tweaking.  I don't write in sequence, but instead work on what my brain
insists on producing.  Usually everything links together eventually.  Then I
spend a lot of time polishing, changing, correcting and correlating. I  can
agonize for a week to get a paragraph just right.

Do you
> struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
> want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
> you make haste to get it all down on paper?

-----When I write dialogue, I always begin with what I want them to say, but
Lois, especially, has a way of going her own way and she and Clark have
taken me in directions I never expected.  I love it when that happens.

>  How much
> input do you give your beta-readers?

-----My Beta readers have carte blanche to tell me anything.  I don't always
agree and we will discuss and I will think it over.  Sometimes I stick with
my idea, sometimes I go with theirs--whatever I think will make a stronger
story.

>Where do your ideas come from?

----Anywhere they want to.  That Peanuts Gang of Mine came full-blown in the
early hours (4:00 a.m.) of a Sunday morning after I had read that Charles
Schultz had died.  Of course, Tara's scoffing at the idea of a Peanuts/L&C
crossover was a huge spur to my imagination.  Revelation Anyone? was also an
early morning revelation and  came into my head almost complete.  I did have
to work on it for about 2 weeks, which is fast writing for me.

The Circle Game was really accidental.  I was going to write the story of
Liz and her Captain, which I had brainstormed when the show was still going
on and we were waiting to find out what Lois's answer to Clark's proposal
was going to be.  How that story from the past became a story in the future
is very involved and amazing to me.

I have only just figured out that Married, With Children is the result of
re-reading Judith Tylke's marvelous And If We Had But One Chance, Part II,
plus the visit of my daughters and the ensuing reminiscences about their
childhood.

I'm praying that ideas for Secrets will come, because I'm about to start
writing it, and right now, I don't have much.

I've rambled enough to bore even the most rabid lister.  I'm gone.   Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:36:37 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I seem to have missed the original post, so I'll steal the quote from
Melisma (thx, Mel!):

> At 12:55 PM 30/08/2000 -0700, you wrote:
> >Okay, here are more questions for the writers on this
> >list.
> >
> >How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?  Do
> >you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
> >do you edit every sentence as you write it?  Do you
> >struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
> >want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
> >you make haste to get it all down on paper?  How much
> >input do you give your beta-readers.

I write any way I can ... by preference, on the computer, 'cause by this
time I can type faster than I can write (five years working as a word
processor have some perks <g>) but if that's not an option, I will write
longhand (printed, not cursive, btw -- even I can't read my cursive
writing, later).  I keep a notebook in my purse at all times (it's 7 3/4
x 5" - small enough to carry, large enough to write in) and will note
down scenes or notes.  One scene from Tryst was written in the bathroom,
as I delayed going to bed until I could get my ideas unloaded ("Yes, I'm
fine, honey, I'll be out in a minute...").  My S5 story benefitted from
my son's long bath times -- while he played, I'd sit on the floor &
write a scene or two <g>

Generally, I just let the ideas flow, and I try to listen to the
characters, to see where they want to go ... but recently, I've found
that I benefit from having goals for a scene in mind.  So I'll write
notes to myself ... "They talk, and somewhere in there, Lois mentions X,
and Clark starts to worry about Y."  Still flexible, but the direction
helps me to keep things on track.  Especially helpful to me in my longer
stories :)

I probably don't edit as much as I should.  I'll tweak a few things
every time I read through, and when I type something in from my
notebook, I'll be editing as I type, but I don't really scrutinize every
sentence.  I have very good beta readers, so I listen to them -- if they
bring up a point, I'll generally want to do *something*, even if it's
not always exactly what they've suggested ;)  I have a weakness ... once
something's been typed, and it's been there for more than ten minutes,
it seems to "set" (like gelatin <G>) and I get real reluctant to tamper
with it.  Not a good mindset for a writer, I know.  On the other hand,
anyone who remembers the multiple re-posts of "Just Like That" will know
that I can recognize an awful section when I write one <g>  Sometimes
it's such a relief to just scrap the two pages that weren't working, and
start over fresh...

Nan Smith wisecracked:
>Well, I'm sure I'll disappoint all five of my fans,

Only five fans? <g>  LOL  I've always estimated that I had six, but I
suspect we both may be under-counting just a tad...

PJ
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:09:04 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Adrienne S. Perez" <perezas@EMAIL.UC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Slightly OT:  ARGH!  Re: L'Engle
In-Reply-To:  <4.3.2.7.1.20000829235001.00b063d0@pop.clsp.uswest.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I know we're OT but I couldn't resist adding a Madeleine L'Engle story.  A
few years ago she was interviewed on Public Radio when the novel  "A
Severed Wasp" was released.  For those of you unfamiliar  with her work,
she writes wonderful fiction for young children, young adults, and adults (
very thoughtful nonfiction as well).  I don't know exactly what the
question was but she responded that she never really set out to write a
children's book or an adult book.  Her intent was simply to tell a
story.  Sometimes the main characters in the stories were adults...and
sometimes they were children.  If you read enough of her works it becomes
very clear that her "children's" stories can be very deep and
thoughtful.  "A Ring of Endless Light" is a great example.

Good Luck Erin!

Adrienne

At 8/29/2000, you wrote:
>At 08:30 PM 8/29/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>Erin-  Read "The Circle of Quiet" by Madeleine L'Engel.  She tells about
the
>>countless rejections she received from publishers before "A Wrinkle in
Time"
>>was published.  As you know, it went on to win awards.  Keep trying!
>>LaurieD
>
>Laurie!  I was gonna tell that story!  <g>
>
>The MS was rejected =17= times before it was accepted.  It then went on to
>win the Newbery Medal, which is =the= award in children's
>literature.  Madeleine tells with great relish of being at a
>publishing-type party one night after winning, and being approached by a
>publisher who said, "I wish you'd sent that to =us=."  She was able to
>answer, with no small measure of glee, "I did."  <g>
>
>So hang in there, Erin.
>
>Becky
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:15:55 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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In a message dated 8/30/00 9:54:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LoisLane9397@AOL.COM writes:

<< I was not trying to flame Ann if that's what you think I was doing.  If
it
 came off that way then I apologize.

I accept your apology, Alexis.  I certainly felt that I was being flamed.
You took a post I made and decided that it was directed at you.  As LabRat
pointed out, you made an assumption without checking your facts.  You still
don't know if I was writing about you.

<>

If you truly believe that, then you didn't read all that I wrote you when I
sent you feedback.

Take care,

ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:32:18 -0500
Reply-To:     truitt22@flash.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         timothy truitt <truitt22@FLASH.NET>
Organization: tnt technical services
Subject:      Re: "Perry Knows" (part 2 of 2)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Doris
I enjoyed  your story.  Glad Perry knows and felt guilty about stressing
Clark.
keep writing
merry
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:42:18 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Why write? How write? & favorite types of story
In-Reply-To:  <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L%2000082810295596@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Okay, I've been itching to respond to all these questions ever since Wendy
started us off!  And haven't had time.  (Not that I have time now, but...)

I suppose I'm technically a new writer, since my first L&C story didn't
come out until last summer, and my second one only hit the archive a couple
of weeks ago, but I don't =feel= like a new writer because I've been
writing fanfic for almost twelve years.  Amazingly enough, when I started
my first fanfic story, I had no idea it was a genre, no idea anyone else
was ever moved enough by a TV show to want (want?  =need=!) to write about
it.  But all these scenes were in my head, clamoring to get out, so I
picked up a pen and some paper and off I went!  The show in question was
Beauty & the Beast, and about two months after that I found organized
fandom... and felt a lot less weird for writing stories about it!  Since a
lot of other people were, too.

And I've been writing pretty steadily ever since.  In 1997, I was kind of
in a lull... my enthusiasm for writing B&B had sort of faded (though I'll
always love not only the show, but all the things it's brought me, like
wonderful friendships and, of course, for stirring up the writing
thing!).  I'd watched the last season and a half of L&C on ABC (after a B&B
friend went on and on at a meeting one Saturday about how Lois & Clark were
getting married - little did we know!), but it was just something I
enjoyed, not something I was truly passionate about.  But when TNT started
rerunning the episodes in the fall of '97, I was interested enough to slap
a tape in the VCR.  Very soon after that, watching the day's L&C episode
became a nightly ritual for my younger daughter and I .  And shortly after
=that=, I had these scenes in my head, clamoring to get out.  <g>

As for how I write (taking the questions out of order) - I only wrote in
longhand until I was able to acquire my first computer, in 1991.  After
that it's the keyboard for me!  Writing is just too slow, and there's too
much risk I won't be able to =read= it later!  My handwriting's atrocious,
especially when I'm hurrying.  I'll jot down bits of dialogue or an idea if
it comes to me when I'm not near a computer, but I don't write longhand
otherwise.

I do try to get through a first draft of the whole story before I do too
much editing (which is another reason, besides that I go back and change
stuff, that I don't post as I write - no one sees my first drafts!), just
because telling the story tends to be the hard part for me.  Rewriting
(which I do as many as ten times, until it feels =right=) is easier, for
some reason, I suppose because I already have a general map of where I'm
going (and outlining just doesn't do that for me, I don't know why).  I add
scenes, delete scenes, rewrite and tweak and play with different ways of
saying something.  At some point, when I think it's almost ready, I start
sending it out to my trusty beta-readers.  With most stories, I send it out
to all of them simultaneously - they all tend to have different strengths,
so the feedback I get isn't too contradictory, although with "Ad Astra", I
sent it out to one or two at a time, because it wasn't =right=, and I
couldn't figure out why, and didn't want everyone's first reading of it to
be the "not right" version.  I then take all that lovely feedback and go
through the story two or three =more= times!  Some suggestions I take, some
I take under consideration and end up making changes that are entirely
different than what was suggested (but hey, at least someone said "this
needs work"!), and some I look at, think, "Hmm, interesting.  But...
no."  <g>)

Here's an example.  In my latest story, I have a line that reads:

         "It does," she assured him, her voice trembling.  "I do.  Tom."

Not one, but =two= of my readers commented on the two sentences at the end
(and I think Wendy, my archive editor, was one of 'em, which reminds me
that I don't think I've ever thanked Wendy publicly for doing that for
me!  She generously agreed to "archive edit", which is sort of limited, and
simultaneously beta-read, for this one, which I deeply appreciate!  And she
helped.  <g>).  Now, any time =two= readers make a suggestion or have a
problem, I look twice as hard, because it hardly ever happens (did I
mention they have different strengths?).  And I must have played with that
line for an hour or more, writing it a dozen different ways.  None of those
ways played out the way I "heard" Lois talking in my head, so I went back
to the original version.  But I always take the suggestions seriously.

I think that's another reason I don't post stories to this list - I'm up to
six beta-readers now, and I get six very different viewpoints from
them.  It's hard enough to assimilate and apply (or at least consider
applying) their comments - what would I do if I had dozens of
viewpoints?  I'd go mad.  <g>

As to what I read - someone else said, "anything, as long as it's angsty"
and I can go along with that!  I love angst.

Beyond that - I think I open every single story that hits the archive and
at least give it a try.  It's a Saturday night ritual - check the archive
for "What's New?"  Stories that lose me pretty quickly are ones with no
conflict (everybody's happy all the time!), or ones where the spelling,
punctuation, and grammar are so poor that they make the story too much
work.  I'm sure I've missed some good storytelling that way, but I read for
fun, and if it's too much work, then I'm not having fun anymore.

If I had to pick, I'd say I like post-revelation stories better as a rule,
but it's a very general rule, and a very slight preference!  Probably stems
from the fact that I liked third and fourth seasons better (slightly) than
first and second.  I read everything: deathfic, revelations, next gen, NK,
crossovers, you name it!

And wow, this is =way= longer than I thought it would be, and who pushed my
"unlurk" button this week?  I'm going now...

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"People say that life is the thing, but I prefer reading."
                                - Logan Pearsall Smith
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:47:53 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alexis W." <LoisLane9397@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 8/30/00 7:27:49 PM EST, kathybrown91@HOME.COM writes:

<< there is a big difference between being told "I don't
 think Clark would do this because X, Y and Z" and "you are the worst writer
 ever!!" ;) >>

Unfortunately I think I've received more of that kind of FDK mentioned
above,
than constructive FDK.  I actually had someone tell me to stop writing about
LnC because I knew nothing about them!  That was extremely rude to me since
I've been watching the show for 7 years and I definately know a lot about
the
show.  My friends don't call me the "LnC Expert" for nothing.

Anyway, I guess I might be so accustomed to receiving this nasty type of
FDK,
that I tend to take everything the wrong way.  Obviously, that's something I
will probably have to work on and it's obviously going to take time.  I need
to remember that "constructive criticism" is not there to tell you that you
suck as a writer...and the people who do say that to you, just want to get
under your skin.

Alexis ;-.)

"I don't mind people calling me a hunk, but it can mean a lot of things, if
it means a good looking, attractive person-that's fantastic.  If it means an
idiot in a nice package, it's not." -Dean Cain
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:58:09 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why I write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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I should retitle this Why I wrote? <g>, but anyhow, I wasn't going to add my
little bit on this, but after reading most of the others I guess my method
is
a little different.

First off I always found the physical aspect of writing tedious since I
couldn't type well and my longhand writing couldn't keep up with where my
mind wanted to go.  As I got better at the keyboard I found writing less of
a
chore.  In my short fic writing career (I only started last July) I've more
or less come full circle.  I started out writing things out in longhand
first, now I compose almost entirely on the computer.

I may jot down sketchy outlines on a small note pads, but mostly I keep my
general premise in my head and just dive in,  letting the story evolve as I
write it.  I tend to write in instalments, or chapters if you will.  I
generally either have a scene in mind or look to find a natural break point
in my story as I write.  I have a bit of a reputation for cliff hanger
endings of my instalments, but more accurate is that I like to end an
instalment with something that will give the reader a reason to want to read
the next instalment.

I write out an instalment, just letting it flow as I write.  After it's done
I go back and reread it once over to check it over for any obvious mistakes
and/or to assess if I've put down what I want to say.  Then I spell check it
once and send it off to the MB.  I use the MB as my beta readers.  I can
count on feedback from the gentle readers to catch my story gaffs and
glitches.  I may or may not make edit corrections then.

Once the story is done, I go back and reread all the comments from the MB on
the separate instalments and make a note of any 'problems' that the readers
pointed out.  I make whatever corrections I feel are needed at that point.
I
then send it off to the archives.  If I've made significant changes to the
story in the archived version I will mention it either in my author's note
heading, or will post a note to the MB telling folks that , or both.

That's pretty much it.

Also, as far as my story preferences, I don't think I need to get into to it
much.  I like almost anything, except stories where young children are the
focus.  I don't like kids.  I also see Perry, Jimmy, Martha, and Jonathan as
supporting cast and prefer them in those roles.  Also crossovers are harder
if I don't know the other show.

Relinquishing control of the list back to general FoLCdom

Tank
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:22:07 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "C.C. Malo" <Ccmalo@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I've been very busy with out of town visitors, etc for over 2 weeks and I've
just now found some time to catch up on the great discussion on posting,
criticism, etc.  It was enlightening to read the thoughts of so many
different people on this and I'm looking forward to reading more
constructive
criticism on this list.  But I think I'm too late to post my thoughts on
this
topic as well as the "Why write" thread. (closed thread?)

Favourite type of stories?  My favourites are ones set in the first couple
of
years because I like the exploration of the developing relationship.  I also
want L & C  ( not L / C  + some L / C substitute) to be together at the end
-- naive I know.   Although I definitely like some angst in a story, I get
impatient when there's too much; it can seem unnaturally prolonged, like
when
the monster comes back a third time in those trash horror flics.   Also, in
some stories, too much angst sometimes results in actions, emotions that are
inconsistent with the original cause of the angst.

I prefer stories where there is a solid A plot, partly because it sets up
the
circumstances which can reveal more of L & C's character or impact on the
relationship between them.  Nevertheless, it's the B plot which keeps me
interested in a story.

Since others have been saying what they don't like I will too.  Death fics!
-- unless the death of either L or C  comes when they are old.   Like many
others (Irene, Erin,   I don't care for New Krypton stories although I know
this sounds hypocritical because I sort of wrote a New Krypton story.
Crossovers, because the other show gets in the way of my appreciation of L &
C and because, often I don't know the other show.  The exception here is
Becky's wonderful Timeless.

If a story is well written, even if it's not in my *favourite* category, it
becomes a favourite -- like Jenni's Kent family series.

I don't like identifying specific stories in these posts because there are
so
many wonderful fics in nearly all the categories and it so misleading to
pick
out just a couple.  I don't want writers who I didn't mention to think I
don't enjoy their work.   Not to mention the stories which I'm still
catching
up on and which I will send feedback on.  :)

My apologies for the long post.

Carol
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:34:52 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Charlotte wrote, re. Superman Foundation and Murray Brown:
>
> > BTW as to it being show cannon,
> > didn't anyone notice
> > that in WWW,
> > one of the lawyers suggests
> > going after the people making money from Superman
> > Doesn't that kind of
> > negate it being show cannon?

Wendy responded:
>
> No; what it does show is the writers again ignoring continuity. When
> Superman agreed to Murray Brown becoming his agent at the end of ILTY, he
> insisted that all profits went to charity. So there wouldn't be a lot of
> money being made from merchandising (some, because I'm not fool enough to
> imagine that any manufacturers would make toys, clothing etc and not get
> some return). But everything being produced would be produced under
license,
> therefore manufacturers would have Superman's permission. That would flow
> from Superman using Murray Brown, regardless of whether or not a
Foundation
> was established.
>

I haven't watched any episodes for a long time (I don't get banned from the
list for making that appalling confession, do I, Kathy? ;) ) so I can't
recall the specifics of the conversation you're referring to Charlotte.
Nevertheless, in a fit of reckless abandon and without any regard whatsoever
for checking my facts before posting, I offer up the thought that occured
when I read these posts. <G>

Wouldn't the people the lawyers want to sue most likely be the illegitimate
traders, selling Superman merchandise, without the proper licence and in
breach of copyright? I'm pretty sure, as in the Real World, there must be
plenty of those in Metropolis, even if the Foundation was established.

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:51:46 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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Okay, new subject for debate coming up. Or, should I say, a tangent on a =
previous one.=20

During a discussion on some of the topics recently being discussed, =
someone mentioned to me how annoying it is for them to take the time to =
send detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back a bland =
'thanks for the fic' or, even worse, no reply at all.

Personally, I've always felt that if someone has taken the trouble to =
sit down and set out their thoughts on how a story written by me =
affected them - either positively or otherwise - then the least I can do =
is say thanks. It just seems rude not to. Besides, as Kathy pointed out =
earlier, we authors surely do love to wax lyrical about our fic. Or most =
of us do.

So, I'm curious as to why other authors wouldn't grab this opportunity =
to explore their thoughts on characters or discuss why they chose that =
particular plot line. Especially in light of the many threads now and in =
the past where we authors have tried pathetically to remind readers that =
we feel neglected and unloved if we don't get fdk. ;)=20

I've been irritated by this lack of response in the past myself when =
sending fdk. But I've usually simply assumed that the email went astray =
and the author failed to receive it. Also, I have to point out here, =
that authors who haven't responded to email fdk have been those who have =
left FoLCdom. Although it has always seemed to me that if they have left =
and no longer wish to receive fdk or email on the subject of LNC it =
would only take a few moments to disable the email link on their =
websites, rather than leaving it as an open invitation for contact and =
then ignoring what they receive.=20

I've never personally had fdk ignored by current authors. But again I'm =
curious as to whether others *have* experienced this phenomenum.=20

LabRat :)

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Okay, new subject for debate coming up. =
Or, should=20
I say, a tangent on a previous one. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>During a discussion on some of the =
topics recently=20
being discussed, someone mentioned to me how annoying it is for them to =
take the=20
time to send detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back a =
bland=20
'thanks for the fic' or, even worse, no reply at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Personally, I've always felt that if =
someone has=20
taken the trouble to sit down and set out their thoughts on how a story =
written=20
by me affected them - either positively or otherwise - then the least I =
can do=20
is say thanks. It just seems rude not to. Besides, as Kathy pointed out =
earlier,=20
we authors surely do love to wax lyrical about our fic. Or most of us=20
do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, I'm curious as to why other authors =
wouldn't=20
grab this opportunity to explore their thoughts on characters or discuss =
why=20
they chose that particular plot line. Especially in light of the many =
threads=20
now and in the past where we authors&nbsp;have tried pathetically to =
remind=20
readers that we feel neglected and unloved if we don't get fdk. ;) =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've been irritated by this lack of =
response in the=20
past myself when sending fdk. But I've usually simply assumed that the =
email=20
went astray and the author failed to receive it. Also, I have to point =
out here,=20
that authors who haven't responded to email fdk have been those who have =
left=20
FoLCdom. Although it has always seemed to me that if they have left and =
no=20
longer wish to receive fdk or email on the subject of LNC it would only =
take a=20
few moments to disable the email link on their websites, rather than =
leaving it=20
as an open invitation for contact and then ignoring what they receive.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've never personally had fdk ignored =
by current=20
authors. But again I'm curious as to whether others *have* experienced =
this=20
phenomenum. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>LabRat :)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_009F_01C01352.9AAABA60--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:54:49 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Combo: why write and how I write
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thanks for all the responses to the 'Why Write?' thread I started - and,
Carol, it is certainly not too late for contributions! I'd have liked also
to hear from new writers like Tracey and Shayne and Rose, though I don't
think the first two are on this list.

It's interesting to see how many people had never written fiction before
writing Lois and Clark fanfiction! And yet those who've said so have written
some really good and polished stories. I join the list of those who were
genuinely newbie writers: I don't count the scribbles as a teenager which
never got past about Chapter Three! I'd read lots of fanfiction - well,
okay, everything I could get my greedy little hands on! - and, one day,
thought, 'okay, I know there's no way I could write anything remotely as
good as most of the stories out there, but I'd like to *try*!' So I started
writing... and... well, um... never really learned where that 'Stop!' button
is. The wonderful, blush-inducing feedback I've got from people who read my
stories has also made me want to keep going.

(And you should probably also blame LyndaL, my first Archive editor, for
being so encouraging. She not only made me want to continue writing, but
gave me the idea for my first story to win a Kerth. Thanks, Lynda!)

As for *how* people write, I was intrigued to see so many different
approaches. Not just as regards the paper-and-pen as opposed to the PC; but
also that there are almost as many ways to approach a story in progress as
there are writers. I didn't know there were other people around who write in
layers like LabRat does, for example.

My method's simple - probably too simple! I don't write in longhand - the
last thing I ever wrote in longhand was my PhD thesis, and I think that
killed my handwriting ability! I sit at the computer and type, almost
entirely in a linear fashion: in other words, I write the beginning and work
my way through until I reach the end. I don't write an outline; I rarely
really plan, although with some stories I know exactly what I intend to do
before I start. With other stories I don't have any clear idea of where I'll
end up when I start (such as my current story <g>), but that's all part of
the fun in writing. Very occasionally I make notes to myself about things to
include, particularly where there's an attempt at an A-plot or some
technical stuff in there. And on vary rare occasions I'll write a scene from
later in the story, but I don't like doing that because I invariably end up
having to tweak it later. As for editing, unlike many who've responded, I'm
not very diligent there. The first draft is usually more or less the final
draft, though I tweak words here and there and may elaborate some things
later.

I see most of us now use beta-readers; they're invaluable! When I started
writing I just wrote and then sent the story to the Archive; now, I have
readers whose wisdom and judgement I respect enormously. They can say
anything they want to me - and as I read for them in return, I take the same
liberty. <g> I frequently agree with them, and am grateful for their
comments, but even when I disagree, as Becky mentioned, this can be a
rewarding experience. It makes me think about *why* I disagree, which forces
me to consider my premise, my characterisation and the internal logic of the
story.

I'll stop boring you all by talking about myself and just add that learning
about how writers whose work I admire actually produce their stories is
fascinating. One thing it tells me beyond any doubt is that there is no one
'right' way to write. Whether you're a pen-pusher or a keyboard-fanatic, an
obsessive editor or a 'first-draft-is-final,' whether you write linearly or
in 'mosiac-fashion,' it *works.* So keep doing it!

(And, Tank, you have *not* retired. Your fans won't let you! Isn't it time
for another 'evil vignette'?)

Wendy

--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:12:16 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Alexis wrote:

> Like I told Lab in a private email, it's not that I'm completely ruling
out
> non-writers, it's just that I'm a newbie writer when it comes to all of
this,
> so I tend to go towards the "veteran" writers.  I have too many questions
> that need to be answered.  I welcome all FDK from anyone.  I guess my post
> just came out the wrong way.  I want to write professionally so that's why
I
> tend to gravitate towards advice from the "veterans."

[And, as I responded, I can see where you're opinion is coming from and the
basis for it, but I still think that, by doing so, you're cutting yourself
from a wealth of intelligent, insightful fdk from FoLCs who could help you
achieve your aims. But it's entirely your choice. While delighted that you
consider me one of the veteran experts <G>, (excuse me while I slap my
husband out of his laughing fit. He's seen my spelling before the spelling
checker gets to it ;) ) I don't believe for one minute that any fdk I send
to an author better than that of a non writer.]
>
> No matter who one goes towards for advice, I don't see why my views would
> have to be ripped apart.  We can take and ignore any piece of advice we
get! > That's what makes writing so unique!
>
[I don't know a single author who takes all suggestions given to them by
their editors as a carte blanche reason to edit their fic. It's pretty much
a give and take process. But if several people were telling me the same
thing, pointing out the same errors, I, personally, would have to sit up and
take note. Certainly it would make me think about why I'd chosen to do
something in the way I had. I still might not make the change, but I'd
listen respectfully and thank them for their input. If it was a grammatical,
punctuation or spelling error that was being repeatedly pointed out, there
would be no question that I would take the advice. That many people can't be
wrong. ;)]

[Again, I'm not sure why you seem to have a problem with this one, Alexis.
If the fdk you're referring to is of the flame variety (I hate this fic! You
know zip about LNC. Stop writing now!), then that's a different kettle of
fish. I wouldn't even bother to reply to those. But if it's of the former
variety, then I'm puzzled as to why you see those as an attack and a
'pulling apart of your views', rather than as being fdk from someone who has
read your fic and noted a number of errors and is simply trying to alert you
to them so that you can learn from your mistakes.]

[And that isn't intended as a prod at you personally. As I've told you, I
haven't read any of your fic, so I can't make a judgement on it. But all of
us make mistakes when writing. Some of us less than others, but definitely
we all do it. We're often too involved in working out the plot and getting
the characters right to attend to the lesser details and no matter how often
we proofread our own work, a fresh eye is absolutely required to pick up
those little booboos we miss. Personally, of course, I swear that they wait
till I close down the file and then come out of lurking. It's the only
explanation for my missing some of the howlers my editors have caught, after
I've proofed the darn story six times. ;) ]

[After 30 years of fanfic writing, I'm still learning day by day things I
never knew before. Just the other day, beta reading the next part of Ann's
wonderful fic, Growing Pains (if you haven't read it yet, why not?<G>), I
found her using a word I'd never seen before, which was swiftly added to my
lexicon.  I certainly hope that never stops. It's part of the fun of
writing.]

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:47:22 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:51:46 +0100, LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK> wrote:

>Okay, new subject for debate coming up. Or, should I say, a tangent on a
previous one.
>
>During a discussion on some of the topics recently being discussed, someone
>mentioned to me how annoying it is for them to take the time to send
>detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back a bland 'thanks for
the
>fic' or, even worse, no reply at all.

This is an interesting question, Lab, and one I've never seen raised here
before.  I admit that I have been guilty of this on occasion, though I do
try
to respond to people who write me, if only to thank them for taking the time
to do so.

When I don't respond (at all or immediately), it usually falls in two
categories:

1) People who write me a short "this was a great story!" and that's it.
Well, yeah, I appreciate them writing.  But are they really looking for a
response?  I mean, anything I write back would be longer than the initial
post. <g>  It's not that I'm not glad they wrote, just that there's not much
to respond *to*.  Do people that write such short messages expect a
response?
I've always assumed not.

2) People who write really wonderful, long, detailed responses with lots of
questions and exerpts of what they liked and didn't, with commentary.
Needless to say, this is the kind of feedback that makes me jump with joy!
The only problem is sometimes I don't always have time to respond right
away.
I save the message in my in-box, then try to get rid of all the quick stuff
so I can sit down and write a really great response back.  But of course,
with all the things that I do, the quick stuff usually takes forever, and it
might be a few days -- or longer -- before I can really do the kind of
response the reader deserves.  What I have started to try, after having
feedback like this sitting on my computer for longer than I can admit
without
being humiliated, is writing a quick "thank you so much for that incredible
letter.  I don't have time to respond the way I want to right now, but I am
saving it and I *will* be writing you back in detail, just as soon as I can
give it the attention it deserves."  And then I can take my time in
responding without feeling like I've given the wrong impression to the
person
who wrote the message.  Because, even though I can't always respond
immediately to this type of feedback, it is by far the most wonderful kind
to
get. :)

The feedback I respond to most quickly are the ones in between -- the
feedback that's a few paragraphs long, with a few questions thrown in.  I
love getting these messages, too, and I will usually knock off a response
right as I'm reading, before I read all the rest of the unread stuff.  I can
answer the questions, explain what and why, and thank the person for making
my day. :)

Ironically, the friendship with one of my closest on-line friends developed
because I didn't respond right away to her great feedback letter.  It was
one
I had "saved for later", but it was a really busy time for me, and "later"
ended up being a few *months* later!  I was so embarrassed, I almost didn't
write.  Susanna, otoh, wasn't even expecting a response after all that time,
so when I did write back, she wrote me back in surprise, and we started
exchanging regular emails.  We both learned something -- she thought she was
"bothering me" by writing feedback in the first place, when instead, it was
that her letter was so good, I had to save it for when I had time.  Yet by
waiting, I had given her the impression I didn't care.

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:00:36 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
MIME-version: 1.0
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Interesting topic, Lab! And yes, I have experienced this when I've written
feedback to certain authors. The lack of response does make me wonder
whether a) my feedback is unwelcome; b) my feedback is not interesting; c)
the recipient never received it; d) the recipient didn't/doesn't have time
to respond. Kathy, the point you raised about the really short "that was
great, I loved it!" e-mail and whether or not the sender expects a response
to that was a good one:  I'm not sure. I've gotten a quick "thanks, glad you
liked it" from some, and no reply from others. If I don't get a reply to
that type of e-mail, though, it doesn't bother me.

I really like your idea of sending out a quick e-mail that says you
appreciated the response, and you will send a lengthier e-mail at some later
date, if you can:  at least the reader is then aware that you received,
read, and hopefully enjoyed the feedback. I know that we all have very busy
lives and have to prioritize our time, yet I think this would avoid hurt
feelings (if any), or at least, prevent readers from becoming hesitant about
sending feedback.  :)

Suggestions?
V

Vicki Krell
Sponsored Projects Officer
Office of Research and Creative Activities
Arizona State University
(480) 965-2171
(480) 965-1703 - fax
Vicki.Krell@asu.edu

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<TITLE>RE: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Interesting topic, Lab! And yes, I have experienced =
this when I've written feedback to certain authors. The lack of =
response does make me wonder whether a) my feedback is unwelcome; b) my =
feedback is not interesting; c) the recipient never received it; d) the =
recipient didn't/doesn't have time to respond. Kathy, the point you =
raised about the really short &quot;that was great, I loved it!&quot; =
e-mail and whether or not the sender expects a response to that was a =
good one:&nbsp; I'm not sure. I've gotten a quick &quot;thanks, glad =
you liked it&quot; from some, and no reply from others. If I don't get =
a reply to that type of e-mail, though, it doesn't bother =
me.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I really like your idea of sending out a quick e-mail =
that says you appreciated the response, and you will send a lengthier =
e-mail at some later date, if you can:&nbsp; at least the reader is =
then aware that you received, read, and hopefully enjoyed the feedback. =
I know that we all have very busy lives and have to prioritize our =
time, yet I think this would avoid hurt feelings (if any), or at least, =
prevent readers from becoming hesitant about sending feedback.&nbsp; =
:)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Suggestions? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>V</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki Krell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sponsored Projects Officer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Office of Research and Creative Activities</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-2171</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-1703 - fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki.Krell@asu.edu</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:13:41 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kathy wrote:

> When I don't respond (at all or immediately), it usually falls in two
> categories:
>
> 1) People who write me a short "this was a great story!" and that's it.
> Well, yeah, I appreciate them writing.  But are they really looking for a
> response?  I mean, anything I write back would be longer than the initial
> post. <g>  It's not that I'm not glad they wrote, just that there's not
much
> to respond *to*.  Do people that write such short messages expect a
response? > I've always assumed not.
>
[Really? Interesting. I've always responded to such messages, just on the
basis that I've never gotten beyond the courtesy rules for snail mail that
I've adhered to all those years. I know that people quite often mention in
passing that they haven't replied to this email or that, for a whole host of
reasons, but I've never been able to get beyond feeling that it's rude not
to respond. Which has gotten me into conversations I'd much rather not have,
it has to be said, along the way. Quite often long after there's nothing
left to say, but both parties obviously feel they need to reply or appear
rude. ;) So, are there different conventions for email as in other aspects
of the net? Am I needlessly replying to email, when the people receiving it
wouldn't expect a response, simply because I haven't been aware that people
understand the differences inherenet between email and snail mail
communication and don't expect the same level of response that they used to
from other forms of communication?

It's never occurred to me that someone sending that kind of fdk didn't
expect or want a response, although now that you've pointed it out, it kind
of makes logical sense! <G> Of course, you're right in that a simple one
line fdk email leaves you little to respond to other than 'Thanks for the
fdk. I'm glad you enjoyed the fic and appreciate your letting me know.' But
to be honest if I'd sent a one line fdk to an author I would like some
acknowledgement such as this that my fdk has been appreciated. Or at the
very least received.

> 2) People who write really wonderful, long, detailed responses with lots
of
> questions and exerpts of what they liked and didn't, with commentary.
> Needless to say, this is the kind of feedback that makes me jump with joy!
> The only problem is sometimes I don't always have time to respond right
away. > I save the message in my in-box, then try to get rid of all the
quick stuff
> so I can sit down and write a really great response back.  But of course,
> with all the things that I do, the quick stuff usually takes forever, and
it
> might be a few days -- or longer -- before I can really do the kind of
> response the reader deserves.  What I have started to try, after having
> feedback like this sitting on my computer for longer than I can admit
without
> being humiliated, is writing a quick "thank you so much for that
incredible
> letter.  I don't have time to respond the way I want to right now, but I
am
> saving it and I *will* be writing you back in detail, just as soon as I
can
> give it the attention it deserves."  And then I can take my time in
> responding without feeling like I've given the wrong impression to the
person
> who wrote the message.  Because, even though I can't always respond
> immediately to this type of feedback, it is by far the most wonderful kind
to
> get. :)
>
[Yes, excellent idea. At least then the writer isn't left in limbo, but
knows that their fdk has been appreciated. I remember a similiar solution
being suggested by someone in respect of finding time to send fdk and then
getting overtaking with RL and forgetting to do it. Both seem to be well
worth considering for those of us who have good intentions but busy lives
that get in the way of them. Although some of us are busier than others. <G>
I think you could be forgiven for taking months to get around to fdk,
Kathy!]

> The feedback I respond to most quickly are the ones in between -- the
> feedback that's a few paragraphs long, with a few questions thrown in.  I
> love getting these messages, too, and I will usually knock off a response
> right as I'm reading, before I read all the rest of the unread stuff.  I
can
> answer the questions, explain what and why, and thank the person for
making
> my day. :)
>
> Ironically, the friendship with one of my closest on-line friends
developed
> because I didn't respond right away to her great feedback letter.  It was
one
> I had "saved for later", but it was a really busy time for me, and "later"
> ended up being a few *months* later!  I was so embarrassed, I almost
didn't
> write.  Susanna, otoh, wasn't even expecting a response after all that
time,
> so when I did write back, she wrote me back in surprise, and we started
> exchanging regular emails.  We both learned something -- she thought she
was "bothering me" by writing feedback in the first place, when instead, it
was
> that her letter was so good, I had to save it for when I had time.  Yet by
> waiting, I had given her the impression I didn't care.
>
[It's a minefield. <G> And here you bring up another good point which I
didn't address but which also bears mentioning probably. I know that there
are FoLCs out there who think it's too late to send fdk on a story because
it's 'old' and who don't therefore bother. I can honestly say I don't know
of many authors who aren't delighted to receive fdk at any point, years
after the fic was posted or not. In fact, often it's even more wonderful to
receive it then. What could be more delightful than finding fdk in your mail
about a fic you've almost forgotten? I know that it's often made my day.
Especially as it's such a surprise. On a personal note, I'd also say that no
matter how long it has been since I sent an email to someone, no matter what
the subject, I would always rather have a reply, no matter how late, than no
reply at all. I will always understand the delay. RL bites us all now and
then.]

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:13:03 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      New printer *perfect* for fanfic!  :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone  :)

I was just so excited I had to share.  I sentenced my recent laser printer
to
death with all the fanfics I've been commanding it to print these past few
years (much to my hubby's dismany ;), so I've been without a printer for a
while.  But my kind brother called me and told me of his University's used
computer equipment sale, so I told him to scout it out and look for a
printer
for me.  He called me a while later to tell me he'd found one!  It's a
really
big workgroup laser printer that collates, has multiple paper trays, and
prints...get this... 18 pages a minute!  And it was only $35!!  So boy, am I
ever in heaven!!

Now...anyone want to recommend some great fanfics that I can print out and
read while away from my computer?  I've read hardly *anything* this year,
and
I'm dying to break it in properly.  <vbg>

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:23:29 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Yvonne Connell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...

On the question of short 'I liked it' fdk: I *always* answer any fdk email
I get, whether short, medium or long.  If I haven't answered, it's a
genuine mistake on my part - maybe I'll have set it aside for later, and
then forgotten about it because it got buried under an avalanche of emails
(but actually, I don't get so many fdk emails that I'm likely to forget
one!).  Like Rat, it feels like common courtesy to say thanks, and also, I
don't want to discourage anyone from sending fdk.  Having read many times
over of instances where people have been unsure as to whether writers
welcome fdk from non-writers, or even need it at all, I feel it's my duty
to keep dispelling that myth :).  Also, maybe that person who wrote a one-
liner first time around might send something longer next time if the person
they wrote to takes the time to thank them.

I recognise myself when Kathy mentions longer fdk emails - I feel obliged
to return them with a suitably well-considered and full response, so that
usually means I take longer to reply.

Yvonne
(who should have gone home 20 minutes ago, but made the mistake of dropping
into the archive to see what's what)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:58:47 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: New printer *perfect* for fanfic! :)

Erin, Erin, Erin... where do I start?! <g>

Well, okay, for me the starting point would have to be Chris Carr's
Learning Curves. It's set - or rather, it begins - during Strange Visitor,
and is a romantic, angsty, WAFFy, dramatic story of Lois and Clark's
relationship, with a villain thrown in for good measure. I just love
Chris's introspection and her portrayal of Clark coming to terms with who
he is. (There is a sequel: LC2: Love, Loyalty and Luthor).

Then there's Carol Malo's wonderful Connections, an alt-universe story with
several twists. I won't spoil anything for those who haven't read it, but
it's well worth reading!

If you haven't read any of Yvonne Connell's Fear of Discovery series, now's
the time to start. By the time you've read FoD1 and FoD2: Nowhere to Hide,
chances are she'll have finished FoD3: Coming Home. Right, Yvonne? <g> It's
a fantastic rollercoaster ride involving two universes, two Clarks, a Lois
and a Wanda <g> and lots of other characters we know and love... to hate.
<g>

As for others, if you can keep reminding yourself that there *is* a happy
ending, do read Tank's Future series (A Future Not Now, A Future Revised
and A Future Restored) - I remember you're a little squeamish when it comes
to non-standard endings. Tank has done a wonderful job with this story.

Then, once Pam posts her final part or parts, you can't miss Tryst. I won't
give away any spoilers, but it's poignant and funny and wonderful - and my
vote for Best Original Premise this year, I think.

That's probably enough for now. I would recommend the Epic, but I'd be
amazed if you haven't already read it. ;) There are of course other stories
well worth reading this year - the conclusion to Mobile Richard's Life in a
Different World series, more of Irene's next-gen series, and many more -
but I'll let others recommend those.

Happy reading!

Wendy
(who would love to be able to recommend a LabRat story, only LabRat missed
her Easter deadline for having two of them finished. That was Easter
*2000*, Rat! <g>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:03:37 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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In a message dated 08/31/2000 11:10:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes:

<< Am I needlessly replying to email, when the people receiving it
 wouldn't expect a response, simply because I haven't been aware that people
 understand the differences inherenet between email and snail mail
 communication and don't expect the same level of response that they used to
 from other forms of communication? >>

No, I expect you are just a well-trained rat. Is there a little Emily Post
rat running about that lab somewhere? ;)

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:03:25 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Another question - How do you write?
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Great questions; you guys have really gotten me thinking lately!

>> How do you write?  By longhand or on the computer?

After I start working ideas out in my head, I usually write by computer. In
fact, when I started writing, I couldn't write off the computer; then my
computer had to go in for repairs and I was inspired, so I had to write on
paper. Since then, I've mostly kept to the computer, but I still write a
little on paper. Sometimes I feel confined, always writing at a desk, and
sometimes I just want to write while watching a baseball game, etc. I find
it
easier, though, to edit off-computer; I usually print out sections of the
story and work them over while doing something else. (I have a hard time
doing
just one thing at once; I can't understand how anyone could *just* watch
TV!)

>> Do
>> you let it flow out of your fingers and edit later or
>> do you edit every sentence as you write it?

I usually edit later. I find that if I get too caught up in editing while
I'm
putting down new ideas, I lose the ideas. Since I'm an obsessive editor, I
usually spend more time editing a story than I did actually writing it ;)
Oftentimes, my editing involves major revisions, such as adding or removing
scenes, or adding description. Usually I write description last; for
example,
I recently began posting part 3 of my Martha Chronicles series on Zoom's MB.
The first section started with description and that I wrote after plotting
the
scene's "action."

I don't write in sequence, either, and that's something that's prevented me
(until now) allowing anyone to read in-progress stories. I'm afraid they'd
just be confusing, with beginning and ending scenes all jammed together
without any glue. For the abovementioned story, I have a few beginning
scenes
and the last two scenes finished. The middle is somewhat of a blur <g>

>Do you
>> struggle to make your characters do exactly what you
>> want them to, or do you let them do their own thing as
>> you make haste to get it all down on paper?

Usually they just do their own things. I have some rough idea of what's
going
to happen in the scene (usually) but I don't have it completely mapped out
in
my head first. I read an interview of one of my absolute favorite authors,
A.
Manette Ansay, where she said that she writes in her head almost completely,
connecting beginning words of paragraphs to make sure she doesn't forget
anything. She did this because medical problems prevent her from sitting at
the computer for long stretches, but I was fascinated anyway.

>>  How much
>> input do you give your beta-readers?

Interesting question. Compared to most others on the list, I'd assume, I
have
had a different beta reader experience. I don't have any standing beta
readers, who always read my fics first. In the beginning I actually had *no*
beta readers, then I advertised on the list to get some. That turned out to
be
a mistake since I got lots of volunteers, but they mostly said, "good story.
I
liked it," when I was expecting something a bit more critical. Since then,
I've asked one person whose writing I've admired, one person who was
recommended by another as having a similar writing style to mine, and one
who
wrote a fic that addressed a point I was trying to address, but in a very
different way. To make a long story short, I never know from story to story
who's going to beta read my story.

>>Where do your ideas come from?

Whoa, a biggie <g> Mostly they come from everyday stuff, like wondering how
a
situation I experienced, saw, or heard about would affect someone in the
Lois
and Clark world. A few ideas have been inspired by the show in that after
watching an episode, I began to wonder about something. That's how my idea
for
the Martha Chronicles arrived; I wondered if Martha was telling the truth
when
she said that Jonathan was the first and last man she'd kissed. It got me
thinking about M&J's life before Clark and even before each other... While
they aren't Mary Sue fics, my stories usually contain a personal element. I
find it hard to write about something that I *don't* personally care about;
I
could never write an action-oriented fic because there wouldn't be any
personal involvement there for me.

Christy
kubitc@kenyon.edu

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:09:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: New printer *perfect* for fanfic! :)
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In a message dated 08/31/2000 1:59:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes:

<< There are of course other stories
 well worth reading this year - the conclusion to Mobile Richard's Life in a
 Different World series, more of Irene's next-gen series, >>

Yes, Erin, I'll jump in here and say you absolutely must read these. :)
There's been so many good ones lately, it's hard to remember titles...

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:11:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Why I write
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Have really enjoyed reading the responses to this topic and wanted to add my
little contribution.  Until I started writing  The Circle Game in October of
last year, I hadn't written any fiction since a disastrous creative writing
class in college.  I didn't think I could.  When I found this list, I was
encouraged by the gentle responses to novices, so I decided to give it a
try.  My very first posted effort was That Peanuts Gang of Mine last
February, and I was really encouraged by the fdk.  Then Sheila Harper was
kind enough to give me some detailed fdk on TCG and that kept me going.

For years I have written, expository treatises, position papers, political
speeches, explanatory letters etc...but now that I've found fiction writing,
even if I don't do it well, I love the creative outlet, and I love this list
with its many talented writers who are so good to share their experiences.
Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:21:33 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Dede Lienau <chickadee@AALWEB.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:47:22 -0500, Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:51:46 +0100, LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK> wrote:
>
>>Okay, new subject for debate coming up. Or, should I say, a tangent on a
previous one.
>>
>>During a discussion on some of the topics recently being discussed,
someone
>>mentioned to me how annoying it is for them to take the time to send
>>detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back a bland 'thanks for
the
>>fic' or, even worse, no reply at all.
>
>
>1) People who write me a short "this was a great story!" and that's it.
>Well, yeah, I appreciate them writing.  But are they really looking for a
>response?  I mean, anything I write back would be longer than the initial
>post. <g>  It's not that I'm not glad they wrote, just that there's not
much
>to respond *to*.  Do people that write such short messages expect a
response?
>I've always assumed not.
>

First off, I am not a writer.  I am a reader.  I found the archive in March
and jumped right in.  While at the top of most of the stories it says
feedback is welcome I always felt that the writer was much too busy to
spend time reading a silly email from me.  It wasn=92t until Wendy
explained=

how much feedback means to writers that I realized the error in my thinking
and changed my ways.  Since then I try to write whenever I read a new story
and let the author know I read it and that I liked it (and more
specifically what part or parts I liked the best)(and since I am choosing
these stories based on the things I like I have rarely read one from the
archive that I didn=92t like).  I also read the stories posted to the
messag=
e
boards and make a point of commenting on each section (except when RL
intrudes).

The first time a writer emailed me back I was amazed.  I never expected to
receive a response back.  It meant a lot to me. (Isn=92t that funny that a
response from a writer means a lot to me and yet I didn=92t think they
would=

have the same reaction receiving a feedback email from me =96 go figure!)
However, I understand Kathy=92s position that if all the reader says
is =93Great fic=94 I=92m not sure a response is really necessary.

Dede
chickadee@aalweb.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:35:16 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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--- LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK> wrote:
> Okay, new subject for debate coming up. Or, should I
> say, a tangent on a previous one.
>
> During a discussion on some of the topics recently
> being discussed, someone mentioned to me how
> annoying it is for them to take the time to send
> detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back
> a bland 'thanks for the fic' or, even worse, no
> reply at all.
>
> Personally, I've always felt that if someone has
> taken the trouble to sit down and set out their
> thoughts on how a story written by me affected them
> - either positively or otherwise - then the least I
> can do is say thanks. It just seems rude not to.
> Besides, as Kathy pointed out earlier, we authors
> surely do love to wax lyrical about our fic. Or most
> of us do.
>
> So, I'm curious as to why other authors wouldn't
> grab this opportunity to explore their thoughts on
> characters or discuss why they chose that particular
> plot line. Especially in light of the many threads
> now and in the past where we authors have tried
> pathetically to remind readers that we feel
> neglected and unloved if we don't get fdk. ;)
>
> I've been irritated by this lack of response in the
> past myself when sending fdk. But I've usually
> simply assumed that the email went astray and the
> author failed to receive it. Also, I have to point
> out here, that authors who haven't responded to
> email fdk have been those who have left FoLCdom.
> Although it has always seemed to me that if they
> have left and no longer wish to receive fdk or email
> on the subject of LNC it would only take a few
> moments to disable the email link on their websites,
> rather than leaving it as an open invitation for
> contact and then ignoring what they receive.
>
> I've never personally had fdk ignored by current
> authors. But again I'm curious as to whether others
> *have* experienced this phenomenum.
>
> LabRat :)
>
I've never had this happen, Lab, that fdk that I've
sent out has been ignored.  And I think I've answered
every fdk email that I've ever received.

I do try and answer the detailed emails, point by
point - a prime example being Ray's wonderful emails.
Occasionally, however, it's difficult (Not with Ray
but with others) when the fdk shows me that the person
writing has *totally* missed the point of what I've
tried to say or represent.  In that case, I usually
answer with a simple 'Thanks.  Glad you enjoyed it.'

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:42:09 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Farah Meitzen Chisham <farah@CHISHAM.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback
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Okay, I haven't been here in a while and now, I'm on digest so I apologize
if I am reopening an already closed subject.

Okay, I am the queen of negative feedback. Do you want to
know why? Well, I thought you would ask. Some of you guys
know that I'm a professional musician (it isn't as glamorous
as it sounds :)). I have gotten all kinds of nasty comments,
"You're sound is bad, you'll never get a job" ; "You're too
short, you can't possibly have enough air" ; "You're rhythm
is not so good" ; well, you get the picture.

Even those those comments ticked me off to know end but
you know what?? I got BETTER. Because I combined the
'bad' comments that were said rather harshly with
'constructive' comments that were spoken by teachers
and others who respected me AND 'wonderful' comments
that were said to me by my "fans" (anyone who likes
my playing is a fan to me <double grin>). Some of the
nasty comments had a teeny-tiny amount of truth
in it, so I worked on my sound. By working on my
sound, I began working on my air (because they go
hand and hand in the art of French horn playing), and
when I did that.... so on and so forth. The comment on
"you'll never get a job" was total and utter garbage. Not
worth my time worrying about it.

Why am I bringing in a totally off-topic subject (sorry
Kathy)?? Because it has to do with any art that is
full of opinions. We have to remember, it's only opinion.
Writers, keep the stuff you like and trash the stuff you
hate. If your FDK says, "I don't like Lois's portrayal"
WHO CARES?? and hit that delete button. This is your
art. If someone else says, your sentence structure sucks,
then think--translation, "Maybe I should look at my
sentence structure and that person was a jerk for
saying it sucks and didn't give me any suggestions
on what was wrong."

Anyway, I hope my expertise on negative feedback
has helped in anyway, and if you think my information
was useless, maybe just *maybe* someone else didn't.

Farah
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:08:18 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: The shoe on the other foot
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Excellent topic, Miz Rat!

>During a discussion on some of the topics recently being discussed, someone
mentioned to me how annoying it is for them to take the time to send
detailed fdk to authors and then simply receive back a bland 'thanks for the
fic or, even worse, no reply at all.

-----When a get FDK, I always try to respond in kind to the FDKer (?).  If
it 's a short 'I liked it', I send back a short 'thank you'.  If its more
detailed, I return a more detailed response.  In a previous post LabRat
mentioned getting responses from Ray Reynolds.  I too have enjoyed his FDK
which is always thoughtful and helpful and I have responded to him in the
same way.  If I don't respond personally it's probably because I don't have
the personal e-mail address, but I always try to acknowledge everything in
one way or another.  My mama taught me it was rude not to answer nice
letters, and since I think all FDK is 'nice', I do my best to follow my
Mama's teaching.  Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:41:51 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nicole Wolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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Darn, I didn't pay attention and it happened again! Sorry, Ratty, you're
going to get this
email twice :-/

Good question, Labrat :-)
I must admit feeling disappointed when I sent feedback and didn't get a
response. That's why I vowed to respond to every feedback I got and I
hope I did so far.

Usually I don't fall in the one-line category of feedback, but most of
the time my feedback-emails are indeed pretty short. I have the excuse
though, that I'm not a native speaker and honestly, it's just too
difficult for me trying to give detailed feedback of a story in english.
It sounds crazym, but actually it's much more difficult than writing one
myself!

BTW, I face the same problem when I get really detailed feedback for my
own stories. Although I really love such feedback (which author
wouldn't?!) I must admit, that I find my responses very "lacking"
sometimes. Isn't it ironic that the writer isn't able to handle the
language as well as the reader? ;-P In my case it's only too true most
of the time <g>.

take care
Nicole
--
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de

Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain?
And don't you have the time to go and find them?
Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page"
http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:39:26 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I once received FDK that said, more or less "Great fic.  Thanks for
writing it."  So I wrote back, "Nice feedback, thanks for sending it
<g>" with their own message quoted back so that (hopefully) they got the
parallel...

I always *try* to write back, but sometimes I get buried and it doesn't
happen, which leaves me feeling guilty ... and I always resolve to do
better next time.  I do appreciate every bit of feedback I've ever
gotten ... including the note on fanfiction.net that said "A little
weird, but it was okay" which totally cracked me up... :D
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:46:14 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <MIKEY14674@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Looking For A Fanfic
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      I looking for a fanfic that I read awhile back.  It is set in an
alternate universe that has outlaw technology.  Clark works in a library and
there is no Lois.  And with the help of Alt-Clark and H.G. Wells he travels
to a universe with no Clark, and meet a Lois.  I think this story is part of
a series.  Can anyone name this fanfic.

Thanks,

Mikey
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:08:40 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Looking For A Fanfic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I think you're thinking of Roving Reporters by Cindy
Haste.  It was called Prelude and was posted on Zoom's
msg boards.  The nfic version is now at Anne Ciotola's
site and the gfic version should be hitting the fanfic
archive soon.

Hope this is the one that you meant.

Irene

--- No Name Available <MIKEY14674@AOL.COM> wrote:
>       I looking for a fanfic that I read awhile
> back.  It is set in an
> alternate universe that has outlaw technology.
> Clark works in a library and
> there is no Lois.  And with the help of Alt-Clark
> and H.G. Wells he travels
> to a universe with no Clark, and meet a Lois.  I
> think this story is part of
> a series.  Can anyone name this fanfic.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mikey

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:53:33 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What is your favourite type of story?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I would have to say that I like almost any type of story if it is: a)
well-written [nothing puts me off faster than really poor grammar and
spelling], b) has either an interesting A or B plot, c) and isn't death fic.

That said, I must admit that I'm not overly fond of New Krypton stories in
general, although some are very good, and I tend to prefer stories that
explore the relationship between Lois and Clark.  I rarely read cross-overs,
because I watch very little TV and usually don't know who the other
characters are.

I hesitate to mention favorite authors, because I have a lot of favorite
authors and I'd hate to leave one out inadvertently.  I will say that I am
frequently amazed by the quality of some of the stories by some extremely
young authors.  It's a delight to watch their styles develop as they mature
and learn more about the craft of writing.

Give me well-developed characters with some interesting angle and I'm as
happy as a clam.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:05:09 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
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In a message dated 8/29/00 1:54:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, erink@IDA.NET
writes:

<<
 So *how* do you guys flesh out your ideas into stories?  And when do you
find
 yourself coming up with your ideas the most?  Mine come when I'm doing the
 stupidest things:  showering (eyeliner and tissue have been a desperation
 notepad and writing utensil for me on occasion, I have to admit <sg>),
while
 shuttling kids around or writing errands, while lying in bed at night...it
 seems like any time when my mind is drifting and not concentrating on any
task
 in particular is when I get most of my ideas.  How about you?  When do your
 story ideas surface? >>

Sounds like me Erin.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:19:57 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 8/30/00 6:12:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR writes:

<< But FoLCs who
 are sending you feedback have taken some of their time to do that, and that
 shows they care. That alone, IMHO, deserves respect.
  >>
 Brava, Helene.  That was very well said.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:04:46 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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In a message dated 08/31/2000 2:36:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sirenegold@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< And I think I've answered
 every fdk email that I've ever received. >>

As a reader who rarely spends the time to give feedback (except when asked
to
be a beta reader), I've certainly made friends this way. Debby was first.
I'd
responded to her question at the end of Dawning 1 about would we want more.
This was not long after I'd found fanfic and online stuff for L&C (back when
the show was still on). We wrote frequently about weather and vegetables and
all sorts of odd stuff. And she'd send me the next installment of Dawning
and
I'd go through it with a red pencil and mail it back (all snail mail because
I had such a slow modem back then). Than I got to suggest to Margaret
Brignell about Alt-Clark's growing up years and see where that led!! And now
I'm a beta reader for Irene (and I think we had a brain collision this
morning <g>)!!!!!!!

Sometimes giving feedback, even if one will never be a writer, ends up
making
you new friends. :)

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:46:20 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: New printer *perfect* for fanfic! :)
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> Wendy wrote:

> (who would love to be able to recommend a LabRat story, only LabRat missed
> her Easter deadline for having two of them finished. That was Easter
> *2000*, Rat! <g>)

I refer the Right Honorable Lady to the following excus...um, reasons, which
I mentioned at the time:

a/ I was abducted by aliens and escaped too late to make the deadline.

b/ I did write two fics by Easter. I just didn't put them down on paper or
on the screen.

You mean...you didn't believe me?!

LabRat :) (shocked to the core by this lack of trust. They seemed reasonable
enough excus...reasons at the time. )
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:59:03 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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Pam wrote:

> I once received FDK that said, more or less "Great fic.  Thanks for
> writing it."  So I wrote back, "Nice feedback, thanks for sending it
> <g>" with their own message quoted back so that (hopefully) they got the
> parallel...

[Doubly interesting. The debate seems to have shifted to suggest that some
authors find fdk that isn't detailed unworthy. I have to disagree.
Personally, I'm glad to get any fdk. I don't especially care if it's
detailed or offers up opinions on what was good (or bad) about it. I won't
dispute that fdk from the Ray Reynolds School of Fdk (sorry, Ray <G>) is
even more interesting and the preferable fdk of the two. But I don't expect
all readers to give me that degree of attention. If someone who's read one
of my fic sends me a one line fdk saying 'Great. Liked it.' then I'm just as
ecstatic as I am receiving the other kind. I appreciate the time taken and
the thought behind sending it, just as much. Just to know that someone
enjoyed my fic enough to write and tell me so is a delight. Having someone
discuss the plot and characters is simply a bonus.]
>
> I always *try* to write back, but sometimes I get buried and it doesn't
> happen, which leaves me feeling guilty ... and I always resolve to do
> better next time.  I do appreciate every bit of feedback I've ever
> gotten ... including the note on fanfiction.net that said "A little
> weird, but it was okay" which totally cracked me up... :D
> --
>
[Yes, the fdk from ff.net is certainly...interesting. <G> I've gotten into
the habit of putting on the asbestos gloves and opening up one of those
emails with tongs at arm's length. Usually it's pretty benign but there have
been some beauties. Including one who offered me a pornographic theme and
demanded I write a fic to go with it. ;)]

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:00:30 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot
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Speaking for myself, I appreciate any and all feedback, whether it is a
wonderably detailed and insightful as Ray's, or just a note to let me
know that someone read and liked something I wrote.  I try to reply to
each and every one, because they did take the time to write and tell me
what they thought, after all.

Nan
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:08:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "C.C. Malo" <Ccmalo@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The shoe on the other foot
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I always reply to feedback.  It's wonderful to get. :)  Also,  perhaps it's
been easier because I've written only a few stories and there hasn't been
that much feedback to deal with.  I also have really appreciated the
constructive criticism I recieved  because it helped me later with a  story
or to understand why one story was not so good or helped with needed
revisions to a story before I sent it to the archive.  It doesn't seem to
matter whether the reader was a fic writer or non writer.

Labrat asked:  <<I've never personally had fdk ignored by current authors.
But again I'm curious as to whether others *have* experienced this
phenomenum. .>>  Yes, I've had this experience, both in the past and this
summer.  Not often though.   Labrat also wrote:  <<I've been irritated by
this lack of response in the past myself when sending fdk. But I've usually
simply assumed that the email went astray and the author failed to receive
it.>> I wondered about this, especially at one point this summer when I was
having trouble with my e-mail so I resent a feedback email.  The author had
receievded the original and wrote back a nice note -- I was very
embarrassed.
 So who knows what happens?

And thanks, Wendy, for the nice comment about Connections.

Carol
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:13:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot
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Some people, however, are going to wonder if I can spell, after that.
That's the result of trying to type while dealing with two kids both trying
to grab my attention at once. <g.>

Nan

Nancy Smith wrote:

> Speaking for myself, I appreciate any and all feedback, whether it is a
> wonderably detailed and insightful as Ray's, or just a note to let me
> know that someone read and liked something I wrote.  I try to reply to
> each and every one, because they did take the time to write and tell me
> what they thought, after all.
>
> Nan
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:16:30 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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> Pam wrote:
>
> > I once received FDK that said, more or less "Great fic.  Thanks for
> > writing it."  So I wrote back, "Nice feedback, thanks for sending it
> > <g>" with their own message quoted back so that (hopefully) they got the
> > parallel...
>
> [Doubly interesting. The debate seems to have shifted to suggest that some
> authors find fdk that isn't detailed unworthy.

Oops, that'll be my weird sense of humor kicking up.  I didn't mean to
imply (either here, or to the person who wrote) that I found the note
unworthy -- I think I managed to be a little less snarky-sounding in the
actual note than what I could dredge up today, years after the fact.  I
enjoy all feedback -- well, okay, I really only enjoy the glowing
positive kind ;) but I *appreciate* everyone who takes the time to
write.

Actually, I think non-writers sometimes don't know what else to say ...
four years ago, I wrote "Presidential Party", the third in a fluffy
little series, and at the end, I included a multiple choice quiz, with
answers ranging from "I loved it, please write a sequel" to "I'm begging
you to stop" <G>  (I think it's still on the archive version, if you
scroll to the bottom)  I was utterly *deluged* with e-mail when that
came out, and a large proportion of it was people quoting the quiz, and
indicating their answer.  A little bit of elaboration, maybe, but
basically just "I pick X".  I believe that's the most FDK I ever got on
a fic, and I *hope* it's not the best one I've written (I like to think
I keep improving!), so I think it was just the way it was so easy to
reply.  Maybe someone else should give it a try... :)  And I did try to
respond to all of them, too -- can't remember anymore if I managed it or
not.

--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:25:14 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Round Robin Fics?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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So, what's the verdict?
Do we get more?
Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:32:50 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joy Sowell <jsowell@MAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Round Robin Fics?
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I know I like them.  My vote is yes.  What do the rest of you say?

______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:37:50 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "C.C. Malo" <Ccmalo@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
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Who knows?  Sometimes I would start to write and things would happen I had
no
idea about.  Or characters would behave in a way that was not according to
the plan I had for the story.  Then I would have to readjust everything to
go
along with the new direction.  Or I would have a half-baked idea and my
trusty beta reader would tell me it needed fleshing out. (mixed metaphor but
since they're both cliches ... <g> )

I wrote my first story when I was on strike -- a very stressful time and the
story was an escape.  I used to get ideas when I was driving but now I'm
supressing them in order to concentrate on my driving -- it's safer and I
also am no longer missing exits off the highway.   It's been interesting to
read how and when people get their ideas and inspiration.  I'm amazed at
their creativity.

re sending feedback agin:
Nicole wrote:  <<I must admit, that I find my responses very "lacking"
sometimes. >>  I never thought so.

Vicky wrote: << The lack of response does make me wonder
whether a) my feedback is unwelcome; b) my feedback is not interesting;>>
No
-- I can't imagine anyone having these reactions.

I'm posting too much today.

Carol
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:36:54 -0500
Reply-To:     bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "B. B. Medos" <bbmedos@BOOKSANCTUARY.COM>
Subject:      brainstorming an idea

I have an idea for something that could play a part in one story I'm
working on. The thing is that no matter how I turn the situation around,
I'm not sure it rings true for me. So, here's the deal, I'd like to see if
anyone else comes up with (or has come up with) the same or similar thing .
. . without giving away what I'm thinking about. Here's the prime
question - under what circumstances might Superman and Luthor become true
friends?

Please note the precise way I worded that because I am not talking about
Clark here.

Beverly :-) bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Beverly's Book Sanctuary http://www.booksanctuary.com
Check out the changes beginning with Bev's Notebook!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Sep 2000 00:44:59 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Pam wrote:

> Actually, I think non-writers sometimes don't know what else to say ...
> four years ago, I wrote "Presidential Party", the third in a fluffy
> little series, and at the end, I included a multiple choice quiz, with
> answers ranging from "I loved it, please write a sequel" to "I'm begging
> you to stop" <G>  (I think it's still on the archive version, if you
> scroll to the bottom)  I was utterly *deluged* with e-mail when that
> came out, and a large proportion of it was people quoting the quiz, and
> indicating their answer.  A little bit of elaboration, maybe, but
> basically just "I pick X".  I believe that's the most FDK I ever got on
> a fic, and I *hope* it's not the best one I've written (I like to think
> I keep improving!), so I think it was just the way it was so easy to
> reply.  Maybe someone else should give it a try... :)  And I did try to
> respond to all of them, too -- can't remember anymore if I managed it or
> not.
>
[LOL. Good idea, Pam. Maybe we should adopt it as standard. <G>]

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 Sep 2000 00:48:07 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
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Laurie wrote:

> No, I expect you are just a well-trained rat. Is there a little Emily Post
> rat running about that lab somewhere? ;)
>
Oh, so *that's* who she is! We did wonder. Bicksley got fed up with her
telling him the right way to slurp from his water dish so it didn't run down
his whiskers and he punched her right in her snout. She hasn't said much
since. ;)

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:51:00 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: The Shoe Being On The Other Foot...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Pam wrote:

>I included a multiple choice quiz, with
> answers ranging from "I loved it, please write a sequel" to "I'm begging
> you to stop" <G>  (I think it's still on the archive version, if you
> scroll to the bottom)  I was utterly *deluged* with e-mail when that
> came out, and a large proportion of it was people quoting the quiz, and
> indicating their answer.

-----LOL Pam.  I was considering trying something similar next time I post.
Jude.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:30:57 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Andrew Troy Keller <ATK440@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Story Submission
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_29.9a88807.26e052c1_boundary"

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I've attached the story,that I'm submitting,to this e-mail.
The following is the information on the story.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Title:Executive Reaction
Author:Andrew Troy Keller
Fandom:Lois and Clark,The New Adventures of Superman
Rating:PG-13
Status:eg-new/complete
Archive:Please do.
Series/Sequel:None
Other Websites:None that I could think of.
Disclaimer:Lois and Clark,The New Adventures of Superman belong to Warner
Brothers and D.C. Comics.This story is not-for-profit,but I own it.
Notes:This story is an Elseworlds story,and takes place during ACTION COMICS
ANNUAL 1991.
Summary:The President and Mrs. Kent have an heir to the Presidental
throne--or,so they thought.
Warnings:None
----------------------------------------
Hope you enjoy the story,and please let me know how you like it at
atk440@aol.com!
Thank you.
--Andrew Troy Keller

--part1_29.9a88807.26e052c1_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; name="Executive Reaction.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Executive Reaction.txt"

<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10>EXECUTIVE REACTION<BR>
By:Andrew Troy Keller<BR>
Inside the living room of the White House,in Washington D.C.,President
Clark=
 Kent,his wife,First Lady Lois Lane-Kent,and his foster mother,Martha
Kent,w=
ere watching him,on tee-vee,saying,"This is the dawning of a new day for
our=
 planet.A day that,through your support and sacrifice,you--The American
Peop=
le--have made possible."<BR>
        "One of your better speeches,Clark!",said a pleased Martha.<BR>

=20=
             "I'll say it was!",said a proud Lois.<BR>
           All Clark had said,however,was,"Thanks."<BR>
                                                               "What's
wrong=
,Babe?",asked a concerned Lois."I would think you'd be happy."<BR>
                                                            "Oh,I am.I was
j=
ust thinking of all the work still to do.",answered Clark,before using the
r=
emote to turn the tee-vee off."I won't be President forever.I have to get
th=
ings set up,so that my successors will be able to keep them running."<BR>
                      And then,after he had placed a hand on his
head,Clark=20=
had added,"Disarmament conference starts next month.And then,there's
Norther=
n Ireland.I've done everything,but paint myself green and carry a
shillelagh=
,and I still can't get them to work for peace there."<BR>
                                                  "Landsakes,Child,I know
it=
's not an easy job,but look at all you've accomplished already!",said a
conc=
erned Martha,after Clark had gotten up from his chair,and walked over to
the=
 window."I wish your father had lived to see this.He would be so very
proud!=
"<BR>
                                              Then,after a short
pause,Clark=
 had let out a sigh,and said,"I know,Ma.I know."<BR>
                            Then suddenly,Lois had placed a loving hand on
h=
er husband's shoulder,and asked,"Clark,would you come with
me,please?There's=
 something I need to show you."<BR>
             But then,a worried Clark had looked at Martha--one-half of
the=20=
caring couple,who,after his arrival on Earth,had raised him as their very
ow=
n son.<BR>

=20=
                        Suddenly,after she had noticed a tear flowing out
of=
 one of his eyes,Lois had looked at Martha,and asked,"Martha,are you going
t=
o be alright?"<BR>
                                                       "Oh,I'll be
fine,Dear=
.",said a smiling Martha."Don't you worry about me."<BR>
                                            Then,after a Secret Service
Agen=
t had volunteered to stay with Martha,a happy Lois had led a relieved
Clark=20=
upstairs to their bedroom.<BR>

=20=
                          After the door was opened,Lois and Clark had
enter=
ed the room.<BR>
                                                                 And after
C=
lark was standing in the middle of the room,Lois had closed,and locked the
d=
oor.<BR>

"Uh,Lois?",=
asked a confused Clark,after he had heard the door lock with his
super-heari=
ng."What's going on?"<BR>

=20=
            "I want to do it with you,Clark.",answered Lois,who had walked
t=
owards Clark,and wrapped her arms around him."I want us to have a baby."<BR>
                                     "But,Lois.I don't know if you could
han=
dle it.",said a worried Clark."I mean,your genetic structure might...!"<BR>
                                                             But
then,after=20=
she had placed a finger on Clark's lips,a confindent Lois said,"I
know,Babe.=
I really do.Which is why I had gone to S.T.A.R. Labs,before we've left
Metro=
polis,and asked them for something that could help our structures become
one=
."<BR>
                                 Then,after she had reached into her
purse,a=
nd taken out a small vial,a smiling Lois said,"Now,I know that taking this
s=
erum,that the S.T.A.R. Eggheads had given me,would present some side
effects=
.But,you see...!"<BR>

=20=
         Suddenly,Clark had placed his finger on his beloved wife's
lips,and=
 said,"I understand,Sweetheart.I really do."<BR>

=20=
                                  "Then,we're going to do it,right?",asked
a=
 tearfull,and yet smiling Lois."We're going to have a baby?"<BR>
And suddenly,after he had let out a smile,a gleefull Clark answered,"You
bet=
ter believe it,Tootsie!"<BR>
         And even though Clark had picked up Lois,and started spinning
aroun=
d the room,they were still happy,for they were going to make a new bundle
of=
 joy.<BR>

=20=
                           Many months later,inside the delivery
room,within=
 the Lowell County Hospital,the First Lady of the United States,Lois
Lane-Ke=
nt had given birth to a healthy baby boy,whom the proud Mommy and Daddy
had=20=
named Jonathan Kent,Junior.<BR>

The=
 President,whose smile was the widest,had kissed his infant son on the
foreh=
ead,and whispered,"In the future,my son.Indeed,in the future,you'll be
able=20=
to succeed me as President of the United States."<BR>
     Five years later,however,Lois had walked towards her son's
room,opened=20=
the door,and discovered a sad-faced little J.J. sitting on the floor.<BR>

=20=
      "Are you okay,Swee-Pea?",asked a concerned Lois,after she had
entered=20=
the room.<BR>

=20=
       As soon as his mommy had sat down in front of him,a sad-eyed J.J.
had=
 looked up,and answered,"Mommy,I don't want Daddy's job.I just don't want
it=
."<BR>
                                                Then,after she had
recieved=20=
a gentle hug from her son,an understanding Lois said,"Oh,don't
worry,Swee-Pe=
a.It's just a little phase.You'll grow out of it."<BR>
               But then,as time marches on,a teen-aged J.J. Kent had
entered=
 the Oval Office,and asked,"You want to see me,Dad?"<BR>
                                                         "Yes,J.J.,I
do.",an=
swered Clark,after he had gotten up from his seat,and stepped to one
side,"H=
ave a seat."<BR>

=20=
        But suddenly,after he had noticed that his father was pointing to
th=
e chair behind the desk,a not-too-thrilled J.J. had looked at Clark,and
said=
,"Look,Dad.I've been thinking it over,and--Well--The truth is I do not
want=20=
to be President of the United States."<BR>
                                                                 "Excuse
me?=
",asked a shocked Clark.<BR>

=20=
                                        "That's right.",answered a serious
J=
.J.!"You see,what I really feel like having is a normal life.I mean,I am a
h=
uman being,after all."<BR>
                                              "You are also
half-Kryptonian.=
",answered a concerned Clark."I mean,it's time to face the facts,J.J.,that
y=
ou can not ignore what you really are."<BR>
*Oh,yeah?*,thought an upset J.J.,after he had left the office.*We'll see
abo=
ut that!*<BR>

=20=
                                    Once again,time had marched on,and
after=
 he had finally graduated high school,a smiling J.J. Kent had suddenly
reali=
zed that a certain time has come.<BR>

=20=
The next morning,it was the usual breakfast routine in the White
House,excep=
t for one thing--J.J. was not sitting at the table with the President and
th=
e First Lady.<BR>
                                                        Once they had
realiz=
ed this,a concerned Clark had ordered the White House security to search
for=
 his son,while a worried Lois had ran upstairs to J.J.'s room.<BR>
                          But once she had entered the room,a saddened
Lois=20=
had discovered a note,from her son,on his bed,which had said:<BR>
                          Dear Mom;<BR>
                          Remember the time,when I was five-years-old,<BR>
                          that you've said that I was going through a
=20=
   <BR>
                          phase,and I might grow out of it.<BR>

Well,Mom=
,I'm<BR>
                          sorry to say that I just can't do it.<BR>
                                                                      I
can'=
t be the<BR>
                          President of the United States,because even <BR>
                          though Dad might be right about not ignoring<BR>
                          what I am,I'm sure as hell going to try,in
order<B=
R>
                          to have a real life--a life outside the White
Hous=
e.<BR>
                          If I had hurt you in any way,I'm so very
sorry.<BR=
>

=20=
         But,it's<BR>
                          something that I have to do.<BR>
                                                            Give my love
to=20=
Dad.<BR>

=20=
       Hope I'll <BR>
                          see you sometime soon.<BR>
                                                        --Love,J.J. <BR>

"Lois?",as=
ked a confused Clark,after he had entered the room."Are you alright?"<BR>
                                                  Then,after she had
looked=20=
at her loving husband with teary eyes,Lois had ran up to Clark,and gave a
hu=
g like she had never wanted to let go of him.<BR>
    In order to find out the reason for Lois' behavor,Clark had picked up
th=
e note,read it,and even though he was calm on the outside,on the inside,he
w=
as mad-as-hell.<BR>

=20=
                                    *I've worked my butt off to perform my
d=
uties!*,thought an angry Clark.*And,this is the thanks I get!*<BR>
  "Clark?",asked a worried Lois,after she had looked up at him."We still
wan=
t J.J. to be President,don't we?"<BR>
                      Then,after he had calmed down,Clark had looked at
Lois=
,and answered,"Don't worry,Sweetheart.It's going to be fine.Everything's
goi=
ng to be fine."<BR>

=20=
                                    But,would that really be the case,or
not=
--Only time will tell.<BR>
                                          THE END!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>

--part1_29.9a88807.26e052c1_boundary--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:06:08 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: New printer *perfect* for fanfic! :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/31/2000 6:42:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes:

<< a/ I was abducted by aliens and escaped too late to make the deadline. >>

They weren't New Kryptonians, were they? I noticed a lot of folcs saying
they
didn't much care for New Kryptonian stories...

--Laurie ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:11:03 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: How Ideas are Formed (Was RE: Why write?)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 08/31/2000 7:38:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Ccmalo@AOL.COM writes:

<< I used to get ideas when I was driving but now I'm
 supressing them in order to concentrate on my driving -- it's safer and I
 also am no longer missing exits off the highway. >>

LOL, I can just see it now. Yes, officer, I think that was me that made that
wrong turn and was going the wrong speed, but I wasn't there mentally
because
there was this story that was being written in my head...

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:53:58 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pat <peabody@MCS.COM>
Subject:      Re: New printer *perfect* for fanfic! :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wendy wrote:
> would love to be able to recommend a LabRat story, only LabRat
missed
> her Easter deadline for having two of them finished. That was Easter
> *2000*, Rat!

I don't know how long you've been without a printer, Erin, but if it's
been awhile, I'm more than happy to recommend LabRat's Caped Fear.
It was written last year, but if you haven't read it yet, you're in
for a treat :)  And it has the added bonus of giving your new printer
a good workout--I think it printed out at 100+ pages!

Pat

peabody@mcs.com
pattijean@aol.com