From:  "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
To:    "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil"
File:  "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
LOG0008D"

=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:59:20 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Marilyn L. Puett" <no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      I highly recommend...

"Ad Astra Per Aspera" by Becky Bain.  It was an interesting twist to the
whole New Krypton arc.  I, too, like the "what if" scenario in writing and
particularly enjoyed this one.  I could not put it down.  I'll warn you now
though-- keep the tissue box handy.

=====> SuperMom
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:07:03 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: NEW:  The Darkest Hour part 43
In-Reply-To:  <96.8a6f998.26d27efb@aol.com>
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Hi Carol!

>Wonderful, Erin.  Such a wonderful (I've used the word twice, I know, but
>nothing else seems appropriate) journey through all the twists and turns of
>your story.  I was a bit surprised by the ending and then I recalled
>something you'd written in an e-mail last fall about the sedan.
>
>I'm very much looking forward to part 2 -- but let your muse relax now and
>play around with ideas.
>
>And thanks for all the pleasure that your story has given.

Wow!  Thank you so much for the glowing compliments!  I'm just thrilled to
death that you enjoyed it as much as you did.  But truth be told, I could
NOT
have written this story without you!  You helped me plot this monster, and
gave me tons of ideas and suggestions, not to mention the motivation to get
going on it.  Thank you a million times over!

I hope to be seeing a fic from YOU soon!  Especially now that I have time to
read instead of write.  <g>

Thanks again!

Your friend,

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:32:59 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Oops! <sg>
In-Reply-To:  <NDBBJNGDOLAFBFIDNGLDCEEHCLAA.erink@ida.net>
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Oops!

Sorry guys.  I could've sworn I sent that only to Carol.  I promise next
time
I'll look three or four times before sending my emails.  <sigh>

But since I've been meaning to for a while, I'd like to say a public THANK
YOU! to everyone for all their praises, suggestions and encouragement with
'Darkest Hour.'  It's meant a lot to me to have everyone's support, and I
wouldn't have kept up with any of my fanfics over these past few years
without
everyone being so great to help me and give me such terrific feedback.  You
guys are the greatest.

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:04:09 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: I highly recommend...
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In a message dated 08/22/2000 5:59:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< "Ad Astra Per Aspera" by Becky Bain.  It was an interesting twist to the
 whole New Krypton arc.  I, too, like the "what if" scenario in writing and
 particularly enjoyed this one.  I could not put it down.  I'll warn you now
 though-- keep the tissue box handy. >>

Yeah, I cried all night and into the next morning. Thanks for getting me all
depressed, Becky! I hope one day you'll write a happy story because I think
you're a terrific writer!

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:50:51 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: I highly recommend...
In-Reply-To:  <84.9dba0c9.26d47d09@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Laurie said:
>Thanks for getting me all depressed, Becky!

Um, you're welcome.  I think.  <g>

>I hope one day you'll write a happy story because I think
>you're a terrific writer!

I thought Timeless was pretty happy, all things considered.  <g>  And the
next one is supposed to have a happy ending, if all goes as planned.  (Not
that things ever go as planned when I'm writing a story, but...)

Thanks!

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:26:42 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Marnie Rowe <Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: I highly recommend...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Yay Becky is writing another story... hey when is the unveiling ? and are
you going to post it here on the fic list?

Marnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky Bain" <rbain@USWEST.NET>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: I highly recommend...

> Laurie said:
> >Thanks for getting me all depressed, Becky!
>
> Um, you're welcome.  I think.  <g>
>
> >I hope one day you'll write a happy story because I think
> >you're a terrific writer!
>
> I thought Timeless was pretty happy, all things considered.  <g>  And the
> next one is supposed to have a happy ending, if all goes as planned.  (Not
> that things ever go as planned when I'm writing a story, but...)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Becky
>
> rbain@uswest.net
>
> "It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
>                                         - Rene' Descartes
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:04:50 +0930
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jill Kaye <tjmckaye@OCTA4.NET.AU>
Subject:      Re: Dean's movies-  was "Video tapes of Lois & Clark series"
In-Reply-To:  <F219bw8b9ezf9CIElR300003ea9@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Teri was in a movie today called "All Tied Up". I taped it and I am about
to watch it so I will let you all know tomorrow if I liked it.
~Larissa~

Strangely enough- and this might be 'kill me' material- i have not
>watched ANY of Dean Cain's movies and only about one or two of Teri
>Hatcher...
>(BTW- isnt it ace having all the eps? makes one feel so good hhehehe :)
>
>Hey by the way what is Teri up to these days.. anyone know?
>
>-Luc.
>
>
>>From: Jill Kaye <tjmckaye@OCTA4.NET.AU>
>>Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
>>    <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>>To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>>Subject: Re: Video tapes of Lois & Clark series
>>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 16:48:27 +0930
>>
>>Hey, this sounds like me! Except I didn't really start taping until season
>>3 when it came back on here recently. I have all the eps now too, also
>>thanks to a nice person on another list. Now I have to get all of Dean's
>>movies. I have two and am getting one more.
>>~Larissa~
>>
>>Hi Jacomien! Welcome to the list :)
>> >
>> >I was lucky enough to begin taping L&C at the end of season 2 in
>>australia
>> >(they aired a long time ago now)- so i had seasons 3 and 4 on tape-
>> >
>> >and much to my surprise i actually found L&C tapes at an online UK store
>>and
>> >bought them! :)
>> >
>> >the address is:
>> >
>> >www.blackstar.co.uk
>> >
>> >when you do a search for the videos make sure you type "the new
>>adventures
>> >of superman", as in the UK it was not called Lois & Clark.
>> >They have tapes of all of season 1 and until S2.07 ...
>> >i was delighted :)
>> >
>> >and of course i managed to find a very kind lady on this list who i met
>>up
>> >with and taped for me the ones i did not have.. so see if you can find
>> >someone.. but in the meantime visit that site!
>> >
>> >Good luck,
>> >-Luc.
>> >
>> >>From: Jacomien Freyer <Jacomien.Freyer@NLSA.AC.ZA>
>> >>Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
>> >>    <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>> >>To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>> >>Subject: Video tapes of Lois & Clark series
>> >>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:34:32 GMT-120
>> >>
>> >>Hi FoLCs!
>> >>
>> >>It's the first time that I post an e-mail to this group - a bit
>> >>scary!
>> >>
>> >>I'm from South Africa and the 4th series of Lois and Clark is now
>> >>shown here. I am taping the series - to show to my baby daughter when
>> >>she gets older, but I missed the previous episodes.
>> >>
>> >>Could anyone tell me whether it's available somewhere?
>> >>
>> >>:)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=
=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=
=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6
>> >>=D6 Jacomien Freyer               e-pos: Jacomien@nlsa.ac.za
>> >>   Senior Bibliotekaris
>> >>=D6 Die Nasionale Biblioteek
>> >>   van Suid-Afrika
>> >>   Pretoria Afdeling            Tel: +27 12 321-8931
>> >>=D6 Posbus 397                    Faks: +27 12 325-5984
>> >>=D6 Pretoria, 0001
>> >>=D6 Suid-Afrika
>> >>=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=
=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=
=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6=D6
>> >
>> >________________________________________________________________________
>> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:39:47 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: I highly recommend...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/23/2000 12:12:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rbain@USWEST.NET writes:

<< I thought Timeless was pretty happy, all things considered.  <g>  And the
 next one is supposed to have a happy ending, if all goes as planned. >>

Yes, I like Timeless very much. "next one"???? when????? Don't make us wait
too long!!

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:02:31 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: NEW:  The Darkest Hour part 43
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Erin

The only thing disappointing is that you aren't immediately
posting all of Darkest Hour part II this weekend.

Great read and looking forward to the second part.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:00:45 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mark Weber <weberm@UAKRON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dean's movies-  was "Video tapes of Lois & Clark series"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Does anyone know where in the USA I may buy the videos of Lois and Clark.  I
looked at the website that was mentioned and they are in PAL format and I'm
not
sure we can use them in the USA.  Please let me know.

Jill Kaye wrote:

> Teri was in a movie today called "All Tied Up". I taped it and I am about
> to watch it so I will let you all know tomorrow if I liked it.
> ~Larissa~
>
> Strangely enough- and this might be 'kill me' material- i have not
> >watched ANY of Dean Cain's movies and only about one or two of Teri
> >Hatcher...
> >(BTW- isnt it ace having all the eps? makes one feel so good hhehehe :)
> >
> >Hey by the way what is Teri up to these days.. anyone know?
> >
> >-Luc.
> >
> >
> >>From: Jill Kaye <tjmckaye@OCTA4.NET.AU>
> >>Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
> >>    <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
> >>To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> >>Subject: Re: Video tapes of Lois & Clark series
> >>Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 16:48:27 +0930
> >>
> >>Hey, this sounds like me! Except I didn't really start taping until
season
> >>3 when it came back on here recently. I have all the eps now too, also
> >>thanks to a nice person on another list. Now I have to get all of Dean's
> >>movies. I have two and am getting one more.
> >>~Larissa~
> >>
> >>Hi Jacomien! Welcome to the list :)
> >> >
> >> >I was lucky enough to begin taping L&C at the end of season 2 in
> >>australia
> >> >(they aired a long time ago now)- so i had seasons 3 and 4 on tape-
> >> >
> >> >and much to my surprise i actually found L&C tapes at an online UK
store
> >>and
> >> >bought them! :)
> >> >
> >> >the address is:
> >> >
> >> >www.blackstar.co.uk
> >> >
> >> >when you do a search for the videos make sure you type "the new
> >>adventures
> >> >of superman", as in the UK it was not called Lois & Clark.
> >> >They have tapes of all of season 1 and until S2.07 ...
> >> >i was delighted :)
> >> >
> >> >and of course i managed to find a very kind lady on this list who i
met
> >>up
> >> >with and taped for me the ones i did not have.. so see if you can find
> >> >someone.. but in the meantime visit that site!
> >> >
> >> >Good luck,
> >> >-Luc.
> >> >
> >> >>From: Jacomien Freyer <Jacomien.Freyer@NLSA.AC.ZA>
> >> >>Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
> >> >>    <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
> >> >>To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> >> >>Subject: Video tapes of Lois & Clark series
> >> >>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:34:32 GMT-120
> >> >>
> >> >>Hi FoLCs!
> >> >>
> >> >>It's the first time that I post an e-mail to this group - a bit
> >> >>scary!
> >> >>
> >> >>I'm from South Africa and the 4th series of Lois and Clark is now
> >> >>shown here. I am taping the series - to show to my baby daughter when
> >> >>she gets older, but I missed the previous episodes.
> >> >>
> >> >>Could anyone tell me whether it's available somewhere?
> >> >>
> >> >>:)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>>ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ
> >> >>Ö Jacomien Freyer               e-pos: Jacomien@nlsa.ac.za
> >> >>   Senior Bibliotekaris
> >> >>Ö Die Nasionale Biblioteek
> >> >>   van Suid-Afrika
> >> >>   Pretoria Afdeling            Tel: +27 12 321-8931
> >> >>Ö Posbus 397                    Faks: +27 12 325-5984
> >> >>Ö Pretoria, 0001
> >> >>Ö Suid-Afrika
> >>
>>ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ
> >> >
> >>
>________________________________________________________________________
> >> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >________________________________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:20:27 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Dean's movies-  was "Video tapes of Lois & Clark series"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Does anyone know where in the USA I may buy the videos of Lois and Clark.
I
> looked at the website that was mentioned and they are in PAL format and
I'm not
> sure we can use them in the USA.  Please let me know.

As far as I know, commercial videotapes of L&C were never made available in
the US. So your only options are to find a FoLC who would be willing to copy
for you the episodes you're missing, or (if they're S1 and early S2) pay
Blackstar to copy the PAL tapes to NTSC.

Wendy

--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:23:03 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy <mrspeel@BLARG.NET>
Subject:      L&C Tapes Seasons 1-2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

8/23/00

Hello,

This person is selling Seasons 1 and 2 of her Lois & Clark tapes, 2 shows
per tape and recorded at the fast speed, for the cost of the tapes plus
postage:

gina
 GSmithGLS@cs.com

If anyone is interested, please e-mail her privately.

Cheers,
Nancy
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:23:39 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: I highly recommend...
In-Reply-To:  <001701c00cba$56bc3840$eb1e8d18@hala1.on.home.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Marnie said:
>Yay Becky is writing another story... hey when is the unveiling ? and are
>you going to post it here on the fic list?

I do a =lot= of rewriting before I consider a story to be finished... and
by the time I've done all that, and run it through a half-dozen generous
but stern <g> beta-readers/editors, I just want it out of here, so straight
to the archive it goes!

I stand in awe of those who post as they write... I could =never= do that,
because too many things that happen late in a story end up changing things
that happened earlier!  Tweak, tweak, tweak... story of my life.  <g>

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:17 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Seconding a Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi guys  :)

A few days ago, someone posted to the list (sorry, I can't remember who it
was...my brain cells are fried <sg>) that they loved Cindy Leuch's "What I
Did
Last Summer," the latest sequel to her "Dawn of Discovery" that was just
posted to the Archive, and I just had to chime in here and agree!  I had the
honor of editing it for the Archive, and I was completely blown away by how
wonderful it was!  It's a very fresh take on "the kids of Lois and Clark"
theme, and even though I don't usually single out next generation stories to
read, I really loved this one!

Cindy is a very highly talented and creative new writer to FoLCdome, and
I've
been very impressed with the two stories she's written so far, not to
mention
the THIRD that I'm beta reading for her right now.  It's just as
wonderful--if
not even more so!--as the first two.  But since this recent one won't be
available on the Archive for a few weeks yet, I highly recommend that all of
you looking for a great story to read, to run right over to the Archive and
read this one!  I know you'll just love it.

(Now, if only I could get her to join this fanfic list... )

TTYL,

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:42:32 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Seconding a Fanfic Recommendation
In-Reply-To:  <NDBBJNGDOLAFBFIDNGLDOEFECLAA.erink@ida.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oops!  The story is actually called, "How I Spent My Summer Vacation," not
"What I Did Last Summer."  I knew that didn't sound right when I first typed
it.  <sg>

Sorry again!  I told you my brain cells were fried.  :)

Erin  (boy, I need some sleep... <g>)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:32:43 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <Debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      A little OT note from yours truly...
Comments: To: LoisandClarkNAOS@egroups.com, lcnfanfic@onelist.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My apartment complex is installing high-speed internet service, or that's
what they told us about two months ago. It's coming, it's coming...!

I immediately started planning to join up with them and told my current
internet provider, who I've been with since September of 1994, to close
down my ftp site,

        ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/dstark/Stories

on August 31st.  If you haven't visited in a long time, well, nothing has
changed as real life has distracted me from writing anything new since the
forgetable "My Journal", though that and a few other stories (Argh rewrite)
are still on my site, though my Dawning rewrite is still, um, "in process".

If you want what's there, visit *NOW*.

Indeed, my provider seems to think I'm only paid up through July 2000, and
they want to bill me for August. This is not in my budget. Since I signed
up with them in September, *I* know I'm paid up through August.  My plan
was to remain with them through September so that I can transition my email
easily (and, of course, if this super-duper service fails miserably I can
rush back to the tried and true, if slow, service).

I'm at the moment trying to get them to see these facts ("Help!
Superman!"). However, if they refuse to see it my way--I'll shake my fist
at them and tell them to cut me loose immediately (i.e., *NOW*) and I'll
just take an x-week vacation from the Internet.

....I know I can do it, I *know* I can *gasp, gasp*...!  Well, it means no
more excuses not to write fanfic as I'll suddenly have +2 hours a weekday
free and more on weekends  :)

In any event, most likely I will have a new, whiz-bang provider some time
soon after September 19th and I can visit the various archives and all that
to catch up if need be. For Nfic group people, I'll be keeping all your
names and get back in that business as soon as I return.  Also, as far as I
know, Joyce is still actively sending out stories to qualified members on
the list.

Just to keep anyone who wondered informed.

Debby
Debby@swcp.com <--soon (when?) to change...

and still selling scripts :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:23:52 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Lorie Y. Crisp" <SuperLorie@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Seconding a Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

'Twas I who recommended it, and i'm glad someone finally seconded it! I was
wondering if any other lucky people had read the story.... :)

Lorie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:08:35 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've just come to appreciate how quiet this list tends to be these days.
Okay, maybe most of you noticed this a while ago, but two things happened
this week to make me realise. First, on Tuesday a friend commented on IRC
that she hadn't received any list-mail that day, and she wondered if the
list was down. It wasn't. Second, last night I needed to look up some stuff
which was posted to the list last summer, so I was searching through the
archives. It struck me  that the weekly collections of posts were all around
three times the size of the archived collections for the last few months.

So why is this so?

I came up with a number of possibilities, and also reasons to dismiss or at
least discount most of them as factors, so I'll list them here for other
people to comment on. I also want to finish up with a question, for
discussion, I hope.

Reason 1:  It's now more than three years since any new episodes of L&C were
shown. People are just losing interest.

I don't believe this to be a major factor. L&C is still being repeated, all
over the world, and I know from other sources that we're picking up new
members who only ever saw the series in repeats. And more fanfic is being
written and distributed now than - I believe - when the series was still in
its first run; Kathy will be able to confirm or deny this. There is clearly
still a huge amount of interest in FoLCdom.

Reason 2: This list itself has lost members, including some of those who
used to participate heavily.

Some 'old-timers' have certainly left; surfing at random through last year's
archived collections, I certainly noticed names of people who have either
left the list since or moved to lurkdom. However, although I wasn't in a
position to compare membership statistics, I know we've had new people join
the list since then, some of whom do participate in discussion or other
activity.

Reason 3: The existence of the Message Boards.

I imagine this will have been some people's first thought on reading my
question about list slow-down. I'm not so sure. First, though, in what areas
could the MBs have supplanted this list?

(a) People post stories now on the MBs instead of this list.
Well... yes and no. True: a lot of stories are posted on the MBs, and also
true: people comment on them there and not here, for those stories posted in
both places. But, although fewer stories are being posted here than a year
ago, many people are posting stories to the MBs who, in the past, would not
have posted their stories here - or, like me, would only have posted stories
here occasionally. Some people post stories in both places, and there are
also some writers who post here only: Erin, Amy, Mary, for example.

More people comment on the boards, which may be one explanation for the
diminution of story posts here. On the boards, writers can usually be
guaranteed a few feedback posts per instalment; here, feedback has always
been thinner on the ground, and now authors consider they've been really
fortunate if they get even one comment on a single instalment. (A separate
question, for anyone who cares to take this up. Why is feedback less
forthcoming on this list? A number of people have asked me this privately,
and I have been unable to come up with a plausible explanation).

(b) Those who used to participate here prefer the MBs and have moved across.
Only partly true. The MBs have actually attracted a lot of people who were
never members of this list, and only some of those have subsequently joined
this list. There are also FoLC who used to participate here and who don't
tend to post on the MBs - or perhaps not in the fic section, anyway. Perhaps
they lurk, and that takes up the time which might have been allocated to
participating in this list?

(c) The MBs have become the new community for discussion.
Well... no. This list used to have a *lot* of lively discussion, and that
does not really happen on the boards. The fic folder is busy enough without
it, for one thing, but I think the MBs are actually less suited to the kind
of discussion we used to have here than an email list with an archive system
is. With a busy thread on the MBs, the thread can start to take a long time
to download - and then you need to go to the second or even third page to
find the latest posts, as well as working out which ones you've already
read. I certainly prefer this email list as a venue for discussion.

Here, we used to discuss topics such as characterisation in fics, character
motivation, the benefits of using an editor, the nature of feedback, our
preferences in stories, what motivates people to write, how writers get
ideas for their stories, and so on. (This time last year, there were also
quizzes and challenges in progress, with lots of responses; though perhaps
list-members are tired of quizzes now). Such topics rarely tend to get
raised on the MBs.

So the MBs haven't taken over from this list as a discussion forum around
fanfic, as opposed to a place to post and comment on fanfic. That kind of
discussion seems to have disappeared, unless it's gone to IRC and private
chats between some writers.

Maybe there are other explanations; I don't know. Perhaps other members are
happy with the reduced traffic.

I do have one final question, however. What do other list-members want from
this list? Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted?
Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've
read and enjoyed? Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask
questions related to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs to
come through with an answer? Do you want all of that and some lively
discussion as well?

Okay, I'll shut up now. But I would welcome any other views on the issues
I've raised here.

Wendy

--------------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:29:15 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/25/2000 6:46:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

<< Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted? >>

YEah, darn it, Wendy, why aren't you writing stories instead of long
questioning posts? <g>

--Laurie (who does admit to enjoying some of the odd discussions that have
happened here)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:13:52 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little OT note from yours truly...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/25/00 12:49:16 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Debby@SWCP.COM
writes:

<< forgetable "My Journal",  >>

Debbie - My Journal was not forgetable.  I loved it

- enough to vote for it as my recommendation for the elseworlds Kerth.

And as I've written often enough, I want mooooorrrrrreeeee Dawning.

Hope your problems are solved soon.  My sister has fast access and ti's
great.
(sure beats dull, stodgy old AOL) so in the long run it should work out
well.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:51:59 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         alauters <alauters@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wendy, you've raised some really good questions. I remember last year, when
I'd leave town for a day, I'd come back to more than fifty messages, most of
them right from this list.

I think I've dismissed most of the lack of traffic on this list lately under
the assumption that many people have been on holiday off and on during the
summer, or have been leading lives busy with summer activities. I might be
wrong, but I suspect the winter (always, because I live in Wisconsin and
it's cold, wet, and snowy all the time) might be more conducive to indoor
activities like online discussions. I'm probably showing my newbie colors
here, but it's a thought.

As for the excellent questions you brought up at the end of your post, I
guess I use this list for any and all of those reasons. I don't often have
time to visit the MBs, and the list gives me a convenient way of keeping in
touch with FoLCs and participating in discussion in the course of checking
my daily mail. When I write fics, I like to post them here for the same
reason. I enjoy reading the quizzes and challenges, and participate when I
have any clue about any of them. (I've read most of the stories on the
Archive, but they tend to blur after awhile, and it's only when I see the
answers I go, "Aha! Of course!")

I'd love to see more writing discussions here and more feedback . . .and I'm
not certain Time Elapsed would have gotten as far as it has had, given my
harried summer, without the dedicated feedback of Merry Truitt on this list.

What do the rest of you think?

Amy
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:08:10 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little OT note from yours truly...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:14:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cdfisler@AOL.COM writes:

<< << forgetable "My Journal",  >>

 Debbie - My Journal was not forgetable.  I loved it >>

Thanks, Charlotte. I'd deleted the mail to respond to this before I realized
I needed to respond and tell her this, too. Having Debby offline for a while
makes me nervous. What if she finds another hobby and forgets us? Nah...

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:28:38 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little OT note from yours truly...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM> wrote:
> In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:14:23 AM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> Cdfisler@AOL.COM writes:
>
> << << forgetable "My Journal",  >>
>
>
>  Debbie - My Journal was not forgetable.  I loved it
> >>
>
> Thanks, Charlotte. I'd deleted the mail to respond
> to this before I realized
> I needed to respond and tell her this, too. Having
> Debby offline for a while
> makes me nervous. What if she finds another hobby
> and forgets us? Nah...
>
> --Laurie

I agree, Debby.  I enjoyed 'My Journal' very much,
too, as well as your other stories.  I hope that you
sent up a new site.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:40:49 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         -= LuC =- <hyperionx@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dean's movies- was "Video tapes of Lois & Clark series"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Im not sure whether Blackstar have a switching service (they probably do-
ive only used them twice).. but I know that 3 tapes were made available in
Australia AND the US and they were three tapes containing: The Pilot, SV,
NB, ILTY, and RFAS (not necessarily in this order on the tapes).. I got
those two shipped from the US through Borders .. so you might want to try
their online store (if the even have one) or one of their stores.

Good luck,
-Luc.

>From: Wendy Richards <w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
>Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
>    <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
>To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Dean's movies-  was "Video tapes of Lois & Clark series"
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:20:27 +0100
>
> > Does anyone know where in the USA I may buy the videos of Lois and
>Clark.
>I
> > looked at the website that was mentioned and they are in PAL format and
>I'm not
> > sure we can use them in the USA.  Please let me know.
>
>
>As far as I know, commercial videotapes of L&C were never made available in
>the US. So your only options are to find a FoLC who would be willing to
>copy
>for you the episodes you're missing, or (if they're S1 and early S2) pay
>Blackstar to copy the PAL tapes to NTSC.
>
>
>Wendy
>
>
>--------------------------
>Wendy Richards
>w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:46:12 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey guys!

Wendy wrote:
> I've just come to appreciate how quiet this list tends to be these days.
> Okay, maybe most of you noticed this a while ago, but two things happened
> this week to make me realise. First, on Tuesday a friend commented on IRC
> that she hadn't received any list-mail that day, and she wondered if the
> list was down. It wasn't. Second, last night I needed to look up some
stuff
> which was posted to the list last summer, so I was searching through the
> archives. It struck me  that the weekly collections of posts were all
around
> three times the size of the archived collections for the last few months.

I admit I've been surprised by the quietness of the list these past few
days, too... just as an example, I downloaded mail yesterday night around
midnight and got only three messages (personal emails aside) where I
generally get around 20. And I'm a member of seven L&C lists! My first
thought has been to remember we're in august and some FoLCs are still on
holiday, maybe away from keyboard or such... but a few weeks ago, the list
wasn't so quiet that I can recall.

> Reason 1:  It's now more than three years since any new episodes of L&C
were
> shown. People are just losing interest.

Even if I know of some people who have moved on, either because of RL or
because they just found interest in other shows and are more active members
on other fandoms now, I don't think it's the case for most of us. I'm just
talking for myself, here, but I know I would have probably lost interest in
the show if I wasn't a member of FoLCdom. Fanfics, particularly, have
renewed my interest in L&C because they allow us all to reflect on the
characters and put them in situations the show wouldn't have, either because
there was a lack of time (45 minutes per episode isn't that much) or because
it was destined to a wide range of people. I'm not necessarily talking about
nfics, here, but rather the plots fanfic writers come up with.

I remember one of my first memories of the fanfic archive was to go through
the
'themes' page, and read avidly the dramatic fanfics. IIRC - and someone
please correct me if I'm wrong - there was this mention saying those fics
were possibilities of what the show could have been if it had aired later in
the night. More drama, more angst, more agonising situations, more
heartwrenching scenes, all of that leading to an even sweeter and waffier
end. What fanfic allows, IMHO (and yes, I'm kind of digressing here, sorry),
is to dig deeper into the characters, find their motivations, analyse them,
confront them to themselves, sometimes... and that's what made my interest
in the show grow instead of diminishing.

This list, being a fanfic list, allows us to see works in progress. Most of
the authors who are posting here clarify that they welcome suggestions and
feedback, and sometimes they make changes in their stories because of a
comment they got. When we read stories on the archive, we see the final
product. When it's on the list, it's constructing in front of us, and that's
something I find fascinating.

> Reason 2: This list itself has lost members, including some of those who
> used to participate heavily.

I don't think I've been here for long enough to answer that one.

> Reason 3: The existence of the Message Boards.
>
> I imagine this will have been some people's first thought on reading my
> question about list slow-down. I'm not so sure. First, though, in what
areas
> could the MBs have supplanted this list?

Yeah, I admit this was my first thought, too. I tend to prefer the list to
the MBs, for technical reasons, but the MBs are becoming the main place to
post fics and receive as much fdk as possible. I've observed this recently,
and while a writer posts the same story at the same time both on the boards
and the list, they'll get, say... a dozen of comments on the MBs, and
sometimes none here.

> More people comment on the boards, which may be one explanation for the
> diminution of story posts here. On the boards, writers can usually be
> guaranteed a few feedback posts per instalment; here, feedback has always
> been thinner on the ground, and now authors consider they've been really
> fortunate if they get even one comment on a single instalment. (A separate
> question, for anyone who cares to take this up. Why is feedback less
> forthcoming on this list? A number of people have asked me this privately,
> and I have been unable to come up with a plausible explanation).

This might be a very thin reason, but fdk on the boards allows us to post
those cute emoticons <bg>... seriously, I think the main reason could be the
organisation in folders on the boards. On the list, everyone - including the
people who are not reading the story commented on - sees the posts, and
there's always the need for a spoiler space. On the boards, there's a
comment folder for each story, and those who don't want any spoiler simply
don't click on the link. No chance to read a spoiler by mistake. Not to
mention the boards allow every poster to edit their post after it's posted,
which isn't the case on this list.

Other than that, I don't really see a plausible reason. Emails are easy to
write and post to this list, and you can write them offline without having
to use a wordprocessor and copy-paste like for the MBs.

> (b) Those who used to participate here prefer the MBs and have moved
across.
> Only partly true. The MBs have actually attracted a lot of people who were
> never members of this list, and only some of those have subsequently
joined
> this list. There are also FoLC who used to participate here and who don't
> tend to post on the MBs - or perhaps not in the fic section, anyway.
Perhaps
> they lurk, and that takes up the time which might have been allocated to
> participating in this list?

Well, maybe there's something to do about that. Most of the new members I've
encountered on irc have found the boards first, and then IRC, and they
aren't aware that there's a fanfic list. When they're looking for L&C list,
they join onelist/egroups, and the fanfic list isn't hosted there. Maybe
putting a link on the most regularly visited sites would help gain new
members. Is there a link to the fanfic list and instructions on how to
register on the fanfic archive?

> (c) The MBs have become the new community for discussion.
> Well... no. This list used to have a *lot* of lively discussion, and that
> does not really happen on the boards. The fic folder is busy enough
without
> it, for one thing, but I think the MBs are actually less suited to the
kind
> of discussion we used to have here than an email list with an archive
system
> is. With a busy thread on the MBs, the thread can start to take a long
time
> to download - and then you need to go to the second or even third page to
> find the latest posts, as well as working out which ones you've already
> read. I certainly prefer this email list as a venue for discussion.

And I entirely agree with you, here. To answer a particular element in a
thread, you just hit reply where you have to copy/paste for the MBs, which
isn't really easy. But apart from such technicalities, there's the number of
members on the MBs and the number on the list. I could be wrong, but I think
there are about 290 members on this list, and 830 on Zoom's MBs... If you
launch a topic there, more people will be able to read about it. On the
other hand, when you're on the MBs, you can't read everything. There are
always some folders you never open. Here on the list, you get all the mails,
and sometimes something you wouldn't have thought interesting catches your
eye.

> Here, we used to discuss topics such as characterisation in fics,
character
> motivation, the benefits of using an editor, the nature of feedback, our
> preferences in stories, what motivates people to write, how writers get
> ideas for their stories, and so on. (This time last year, there were also
> quizzes and challenges in progress, with lots of responses; though perhaps
> list-members are tired of quizzes now). Such topics rarely tend to get
> raised on the MBs.

True. I've seen such posts on the MBs a couple of times but they generally
didn't get that much answers. Unless you discuss the show's character in the
Lois & Clark folder instead of the fanfic one (I mostly frequent the fanfic
one, so I can't be sure).

> So the MBs haven't taken over from this list as a discussion forum around
> fanfic, as opposed to a place to post and comment on fanfic. That kind of
> discussion seems to have disappeared, unless it's gone to IRC and private
> chats between some writers.

That can happen, especially when during some brainstorming sessions for
fanfics. IRC is good for that, because it allows to bounce off ideas
immediately, whereas you'd have to wait the reply on the list or the MBs.
But then again, I don't think IRC has taken over the fanfic list regarding
the discussion about the characters.

Problem is, is there still something to talk about regarding our definition
of the characters? I think there is. There are always little details we've
never talked about, or even thought about, and someday, just re-watching the
episode or discussing with another FoLC will make us aware of an element
we'd missed all along, and that requires some thinking about. Or something
in an episode that we think wasn't developed properly. But maybe we prefer
to write a fanfic about it rather than discuss it on the list, although I
don't think both are incompatible.

> Maybe there are other explanations; I don't know. Perhaps other members
are
> happy with the reduced traffic.

Not me.

> I do have one final question, however. What do other list-members want
from
> this list? Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted?
> Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've
> read and enjoyed? Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask
> questions related to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs to
> come through with an answer? Do you want all of that and some lively
> discussion as well?

Yes to your last question. I've asked a couple of questions on this list and
have always received very helpful answers. I prefer the fic list to read
fanfic than the MBs, since I don't have to be online to read all the parts.
And lively discussions are always interesting :) And why not some fanfic
challenges, like we recently saw on the fanfic boards with the 'silly
revelation challenges'?

On a last note, I wanted to say that even if the fanfic list has been
quieter recently, it's still a lot more alive than the other fandoms I've
been in. Believe me, for example I've been on a Pretender list for a year,
and I get about one mail every two weeks, although The Pretender isn't a
show that has stopped airing. Fandoms where members are so active even three
years after the end of the show aren't so numerous.

Thank you, Wendy, for bringing this up :)

Helene :)
------------------------------------------------------
Kaethel on irc / Kaethel79  on AIM
kaethel@club-internet.fr
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:08:02 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> I know the reason I haven't posted much for awhile is that I didn't have
much
> to say.  It's as simple as that.  Being that I'm in the middle of writing
a
> fanfic, I really haven't got much to post.  When it's done, I'll be sure
to
> put it here for people to see.  In the meantime, if someone else posts a
> fanfic, I'll be more than happy to send in my comments.

Nan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:51:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Basically my reason for not participating on this list is because of my 7
Days of Superman project.  I have even stopped reading fan fic so that I
have more time to write. :(  Combine that with an ever entertaining 8
month old and trying to have time for Elisabeth's need for Hubby time and
you get the picture that I and Elisabeth are in.

It's only when the Subject line is too tempting to resist, like this one,
that I delve in.

Windy...ahem, Wendy asked: (sorry, couldn't resist :D )

I do have one final question, however. What do other list-members want
from this list?

Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted?
Yes.  When all is said and done I will repost the entire 7 Days of
Superman to this list in one boatload so that those that wait will get it
all at once.

Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've
read and enjoyed?
YES!!!!  That is a subject line I always stop at.

Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask questions related
to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs to come through with
an answer?
Yes.  In fact a question asked here seems to get more information than on
the MBs, go figure :?)

Do you want all of that and some lively discussion as well?
Some day yes.

James, who is temporarily stuck in RL issues and has succeeded in writing
himself into a section of the plot he had not intended.

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:50:57 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wanda McCants <WLCME7@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little OT note from yours truly...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Re: My Journal,
I often just lurk, and forget to tell the authors how wonderful their work
really is. In case this happen to you Debby, never say forgettable about My
Journal. I enjoyed each installment.
Wanda
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:54:59 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <Debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little OT note from yours truly...
In-Reply-To:  <20000825152838.3257.qmail@web905.mail.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks to you all. My provider has decided to try to double bill me for
August,
so I'm shaking my fist and quitting them after explaining the facts of life
to
them (unfortunately, without time to unsubscribe properly, sob! I truly
regret
all the bounces!).

I'll see you some time in late September!

Debby :)

At 08:28 AM 08/25/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>--- No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM> wrote:
>> In a message dated 08/25/2000 8:14:23 AM Eastern
>> Daylight Time,
>> Cdfisler@AOL.COM writes:
>>
>> << << forgetable "My Journal",  >>
>>
>>
>>  Debbie - My Journal was not forgetable.  I loved it
>> >>
>>
>> Thanks, Charlotte. I'd deleted the mail to respond
>> to this before I realized
>> I needed to respond and tell her this, too. Having
>> Debby offline for a while
>> makes me nervous. What if she finds another hobby
>> and forgets us? Nah...
>>
>> --Laurie
>
>I agree, Debby.  I enjoyed 'My Journal' very much,
>too, as well as your other stories.  I hope that you
>sent up a new site.
>
>Irene
>
>
>=====
>sirenegold@yahoo.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
>http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:44:12 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'll start with a warning :)  People replying to my posts on this list
frequently find themselves sending email direct to my personal address
instead of the list - don't know why, but it's presumably something to do
with the way my mail program works.  So check the 'To' field if you reply
to this!

Now, on with the discussion.  Wendy, you raise some interesting and
thought-proving issues.  I have to admit that lately, I've been quietly
relieved that there haven't been as many posts to wade through from the
list.  I think, as Nan said, that it's because I'm trying so hard to finish
my very long fic that I don't have the mental energy left to read lots of
discussion emails.

That said, I was the person Wendy mentioned who pointed to the lack of list
posts on Tuesday.  I'd hate to see this list die completely, because it
offers a different dynamic to the boards, and for some people, a
much-preferred portal into the world of L&C fanfic.

I won't attempt to answer all your possible reasons, but I'll dip in here
and there <g>

> More people comment on the boards, which may be one explanation for the
> diminution of story posts here. On the boards, writers can usually be
> guaranteed a few feedback posts per instalment; here, feedback has always
> been thinner on the ground, and now authors consider they've been really
> fortunate if they get even one comment on a single instalment. (A
separate
> question, for anyone who cares to take this up. Why is feedback less
> forthcoming on this list? A number of people have asked me this
privately,
> and I have been unable to come up with a plausible explanation).
>

I remember when I first joined this list that feedback was rife <g>.  The
common practice was for people to post stories in their entirety, and then
would follow reams and reams of comments from avid readers.  Some of the
comments would spark off lively debates; some would spark off ideas for new
fics; occasionally there would be argument and dispute, but generally
people ended up still talking to each other <g>.

These days, people are more likely to post in installments, following the
practice used on the boards.  Is this a factor in reducing feedback and/or
discussion?  Does this list, in fact, support a different kind of
readership who prefer their stories in one sitting?

I think we also have to remember that although I said feedback was
previously rife, I'm not sure that if you added up all the responses, they
would come to the numbers writers get on the boards.  To take my own
current story (it's the only one I know the rough statistics for!), I'd say
I average around 10 responses per section.  At 35 sections so far, that's
350 separate pieces of feedback, an incredible quantity which I doubt has
never, and could never, be matched here.

Could another reason for the reduced traffic here be that more people have
full web access than previously, and are thus deserting the email list for
the boards?  In some ways, I prefer the boards for conducting a discussion,
because I can see the whole thing laid out in front of me - whereas here, I
have to laboriously open up each email to find out if it's something I want
to read (no, my email software doesn't allow me to switch a preview window
on!).  So for me, it's easier to miss things here because of that.  On the
other hand, I can do my reading and replying offline here, and as you say,
Wendy, the boards don't currently offer the discussion venue we have here,
although there's no inherent reason why they couldn't.

> I do have one final question, however. What do other list-members want
from this list? Do you > want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics
posted?

Alas, not important to me any more - unless that would mean I'd miss out on
the likes of Erin's work!

> Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've
read and enjoyed?

Yes.

> Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask questions related
to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs to come through with
an answer?

Absolutely!  As Kathy said the other day, this list is incredible - *two*
people knew how much a Siberian tiger weighs?  Amazing.

> Do you want all of that and some lively discussion as well?
>

I love a good discussion, when I've got time <g>.

Right - end of unstructured waffle.  I'll stop now.

Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)

> Okay, I'll shut up now. But I would welcome any other views on the issues
> I've raised here.
>
>
> Wendy
>
> --------------------------
> Wendy Richards
> w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:33:44 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:46:12 +0200, Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
wrote:
> Is there a link to the fanfic list and instructions on how to
>register on the fanfic archive?

No, there isn't, and that was somewhat intentional ... but it will change
soon.

The original FAQ on the fanfic Archive was written back in 1997 -- and it's
been due for a major rehaul for a long time.  That rehaul has just been
completed, and after we get the pages coded and tested, we will have a new,
much more comprehensive FAQ.  (Yay!)

In addition, we've created a new Fanfic Listserv FAQ -- and that *will* be
housed on the Archive.  I'm not sure exactly where we're going to place it,
but it will be on the front page somewhere.  I've often thought an FAQ
should
be easily available to listserv members, and since we can't seem to put one
on the listserv website, the Archive is the next best thing.

(I may also try to put a text version together to post on this listserv
itself, but since the FAQ contains many links -- to the ratings definitions,
the critique guidelines, the various other fanfic sites/forums -- it really
is better suited to an html version.  Any comments on that?  Are there
people
here who *wouldn't* read a listserv FAQ that was on the internet?)

As for why we've kept it separate, that was honestly a product of a few
years
ago, when the activity on this listserv was through the roof.  We had people
posting stories here assuming that we'd just magically pick them up and put
them on the Archive.  And that just wasn't the way it worked.  So we
deliberately downplayed any connection between the two.

Keeping them separate is a little harder now that I run both forums.  The
same issue came into play when I was doing S6, and also each year with the
Kerths.  Though I was in charge of both S6 and the Archive -- and I help
with
the Kerths each year while running the Archive -- they aren't technically
connected, and I didn't want people to think we were playing favorites.

FYI, there is no link to the fanfic message boards from the Archive either.
There will be, once the new FAQ goes up, as well as links to many other
places.  But up till now, we have tried to keep the Archive a distinct
forum,
alone and to itself.

Interesting thread, Wendy ... I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's
comments.  I took over this listserv last year, and I have tried very hard *
not* to stifle the discussion. (It is very rare that I would close down an
active thread, for example -- I just don't believe it in, as long as it's
labeled appropriately and people aren't flaming.)  But if there is sometihng
that we can do differently to make this forum more active, the way it used
to
be, I'd be willing to do what I could in that regard.

Kathy (who personally thinks the activity on this list went way down when
people started being over-sensitive about hearing anything other than "this
story is perfect!" at the same time other people were getting over-zealous
in
their criticism.  Although I don't believe anyone should be rude, I think we
went way too far on the "polite" side, and have effectively stifled all
discussion of stories. Sorry, FoLCs -- "This story is perfect" is boring.
:P)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:55:15 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/25/2000 7:02:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
yconnell@UKF.NET writes:

<< These days, people are more likely to post in installments, following the
 practice used on the boards.  Is this a factor in reducing feedback and/or
 discussion? >>

Yes, for me, as for the most part I've been waiting to get the whole story
to
read it. Too many in progress for me to keep separate in my mind. For
example, I FINALLY read Erin's epic last night. :) Now, I'm hoping it won't
be a year for the sequel!

I don't go to the MB's. I want my messages to just come right to me. I hate
having to search through different topics and listings and it's just darn
inconvenient if I don't want to tie up my one and only phone line forever
(no
offense meant, Zoom).

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:00:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/25/2000 7:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kathybrown91@HOME.COM writes:

<< Are there people
 here who *wouldn't* read a listserv FAQ that was on the internet?) >>

Actually, that will help us always know where to find it. Last night as I
was
searching out all the parts to Erin's Darkest Hour in my old e-mail
messages,
I realized that I was missing part 23. I had responses to this part which
mostly said,"where are the first 22 parts?" but somehow I never received
that
part myself. I looked at the old 1997 FAQ that I'd saved when I first joined
this list and there were no instructions on how to find the archived
messages--only on how to request them from the list server. It took me a bit
of searching to locate the URL and get myself the missing part. Having that
information more easily available would be nice as the first place I looked
was the fanfic archive thinking there might be a link.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:04:49 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      L&C Fanfic Brainstorming session
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone,

As you many of you know the bimonthly L&C Fanfic round robins on the IRC
have
been on hiatus for quite some time because of matters in my personal life.
Since
things have pretty much settled back into a regular routine, (more or less
;)), we want to meet to gauge the level interest in starting up the round
robins again.

We're planning on having an organizational meeting/brainstorming session on
Saturday, August 26th, 2000 at 4:00 P.M. EDT.  The meeting would be in
#l&cbrainstorm on the IRC.

Thanks again for your patience and understanding and I hope that those of
you
who are interested in the Round Robins will be able to join us on the 26th.

Cheers,
Eileen
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:08:14 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi everyone:

Wendy asked why the number of posts has fallen off and hypothesized as to
reasons.  I don't know about anyone else but I've been suffering from the
summer V's: a Vortex of Vegetation control, summer Visitors and Vacation has
had me in its grasp.  That's reason number one.

Reason 2.  Frankly, there hasn't been anything very interesting posted here.
By preference I don't read stories posted in parts over a long period of
time.  I lose track of what they are about and I have enough problems
reading something once without having to go back and re-read so that I know
what's going on.  I usually just wait for it to show up in the archive, but
I haven't had time to read from there either.

Reason 3.  When I write, it's all I can do just to read  my e-mail.
Responding thoughtfully is practically impossible and knee -jerk responses
are never a good idea.

Reason 4.  Sometimes when a discussion gets started, I have the feeling that
it's for just a certain few, a kind of in-group, and that responses from
outside that group are ignored so I just stay out of it.

Have I gone over to Zoom's Boards?  Yes, but just to post and read.  I find
a lot of juvenile rancor and flaming over there that is unpleasant.  Not on
the Fanfic and NFic Boards, though. But it really isn't a forum for
discussion of writing.
I much prefer this list as a place for discussion.  Becky posted something
earlier this week about how she writes which I thought was quite interesting
and wanted to start a discussion on it but haven't had time yet.  Maybe I'll
bring it up after we're finished with this topic.

Wendy asked: What do other list-members want from
> this list? Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted?
> Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've
> read and enjoyed?
>Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask
> questions related to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs to
> come through with an answer? Do you want all of that and some lively
> discussion as well?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.  I would also like some honest criticism about what
I've posted and what I've put in the archive.  I agree with Kathy that all
we get here is 'It's a lovely story'.  Sometimes we don't even get  that.  I
would like to know that *somebody* had read my stuff, even if it's to say
they didn't like it; and to be more helpful, why they didn't like it.  I've
had private feedback from Wendy which has been most helpful even when I
didn't agree with it and didn't follow her advice. (Sorry, Wendy!)

I would really hate to see the list die out and I know that there are a lot
of lurkers out there who feel the same way,  You should come un-lurked every
once in a while ( like now) and state your opinions.

This is much too long, so I'll stop now.  Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:58:30 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Karen Ward <ward8120@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject:      In need of more info! :)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Hey, guys! :)

Once again, I've been hard at work on my latest fic and have run into
a bit of a quandary.  I know I could easily do the research on my own
to find out the answer, but you guys are a good a resource as any . .
. ;)

This time, my question is what would happen to a person's belongings
and apartment should said person go missing for a lengthy period of
time?  My guess is that the person's next of kin would either keep
paying the bills on his/her behalf, or else terminate the lease (and
phone account, cable account, internet account, utilities accounts,
etc.) and have all of the missing person's belongings put in storage
(or else stored in someone's garage).  Does anyone know if there's
any specific protocol for such a situation?  Would the missing
person's landlord allow a certain period of grace during which the
missing person's apartment would be held in case of his/her return?
Is there some sort of law that stipulates what is to be done in such
a situation?  Does any type of insurance cover a situation such as
this?

Anyhow, it's not extremely critical to the story, but I'd feel much
better if I had all my details right. ;)

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me! :)

Take care,
Karen :)
who, personally, has rather enjoyed the lull in posts to this list
lately since it's meant she can finally keep up with it! ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:53:32 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Marnie Rowe <Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: In need of more info! :)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Karen, i have been a landlord so I know this, the appt can be vacant for
three months if there is an agreement and if there is a lease of a yr its
three months unpaid, during this time frame they are to make a logical
effort in finding the renter/leasee and then if not found they can change
the locks and place the stuff in storage if they are nice bu tfor the most
part it is considered something to sell off to recoup your losses depending
on the landlord being slum lord or nice person like me :) {says the woman
who still has belongings of old renters in attic} Hope that this helps a
bit, oh yeah that is
Canadian law, there are places on the net for the tenet landord code too if
you feel up to wandering thru the legalese...

Marnie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:08:29 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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>Kathy (who personally thinks the activity on this list went way down when
>people started being over-sensitive about hearing anything other than "this
>story is perfect!" at the same time other people were getting over-zealous
in
>their criticism.  Although I don't believe anyone should be rude, I think
we
>went way too far on the "polite" side, and have effectively stifled all
>discussion of stories. Sorry, FoLCs -- "This story is perfect" is boring.
:P)

I agree 100% with Kathy. I ask - beg, sometimes - for negative feedback
every
time I post a story, but I have rarely gotten it. Usually any feedback I do
get is along the line of "nice story." Sometimes I hear about a spelling or
similar mistake. I rarely hear something even semi-critical about anything
crucial to the story: characters, plot, etc. In the past I have sent stories
privately to list members; this tends to get me a little more criticism.
Only
once or twice have I received a full critique of a fic, and it tremendously
improved that story and my writing in general.

It also bothers me to continuously hear "this story is perfect" about other
people's fics. Not only is no story perfect, but some stories are very
definitely better than others. When I see stories that I personally think
need
more work, receive only glowing feedback, I begin to wonder whether the
positive feedback *my* fics receive is honest. Maybe others are just saying
"great story" because they say "great story," and maybe my story is actually
bad, but everyone is too polite to say so...

Until a few weeks ago, I didn't bother to read the MBs; I didn't have the
time. But, since it's summer, I thought I'd give them a chance, and last
week
I posted part of a new fic on the MBs, something I never thought I'd do. I
guess I've extended myself to the MBs looking for some critical feedback,
the
kind I think we used to have a little bit of here, but don't anymore.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about positive feedback; I just want
to hear what I'm doing wrong too. Maybe I've been spoiled by the 2 fiction
writing courses I took; we were forced to give criticism and we grew to
expect, even enjoy it, because it meant we knew what to we should fix in
that
particular story, and what to work on with our writing in general.

Christy
kubitc@kenyon.edu

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 06:36:13 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
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Having read this post, I feel that I should emerge from lurkdom to repy:

>>>I do have one final question, however. What do other list-members want=

from
this list? Do you want a forum where you'll get occasional fanfics posted=
?
Do you like to receive recommendations from other members of fics they've=

read and enjoyed? Do you want to treat it as a resource where you can ask=

questions related to a fic you're writing, and know you can trust FoLCs t=
o
come through with an answer? Do you want all of that and some lively
discussion as well?<<<

I suppose I must answer yes to all Wendy's questions:

I do use the list to post fanfic.  I am not registered on the MBs, though=
 a
friend has been kind enough to post my latest story to the boards.  At th=
e
moment with my busy life, I just don't have time to post or check the
boards regularly, though I do try to keep up.  But the fanfic list is ver=
y
easy to manage and I do check my mail every day.

I also enjoy the feedback I receive on the list, some of you still do sen=
d
fdk and it is all welcome.  Even the short 'good story' emails I look
forward to.  Now that might be because as a writer I am still fairly
uncertain of the standard of my latest work and I need the encouragement =
of
how a story is being received.  Or it might be because I appreciate peopl=
e
taking the time to make comment about my stories.  That doesn't mean that=
 I
don't enjoy constructive criticism either, though I find that people tend=

to send those kind of emails privately; keep them coming because if I do
write something in a story that doesn't gel then it's nice to have it
pointed out.

Which brings me to another point on this fdk theme:  Before I post my sto=
ry
 anywhere it usually has been read by a number of beta-readers.  When I
started writing it was normally members of my family and thank goodness
they didn't mind reading L & C stories, even if they were never true folc=
s.
 Now I have added to those who  'test run' my stories and a lot of
discussion and advice  about my plots and characterisations goes on 'behi=
nd
the scenes' so to speak.   But they are all friends and fellow folcs who =
I
have originally met through this list.  So I thank this list for bringing=

together like minded people who have a love for a wonderful TV series and=

who also like writing and reading stories about their favourite character=
s.

The recommendation question is easy to answer:  Yes and I do follow the
advice if I haven't already read one of the recommended fics.

Asking questions for a fic:  Up to this point I haven't done this as I ha=
ve
always checked my story backgrounds by searching through the Internet for=

the relevant  details, eg volcanic eruptions. <g>   However, now I've
learned by experience what a vast range of knowledge is held in the minds=

of list members, I shall probably save myself the trouble of searching
through the net. <g>  Oh and at this point I'd like to thank LaurieD for
sending me an excert from her local newspaper on the annversary of the
Mount St Helene eruption, the info was very welcome and used.  Laurie is
another folc who I originally encountered on this list.

Lastly the question of discussion:  Yes, I do want that and even if I
rarely take part I certainly do like reading the various threads and
opinions.   Many of you know the circumstances of my personal life and kn=
ow
that I have difficulty balancing my interest in writing and reading L&C
stuff and looking after my husband who had a stroke late last year and al=
so
trying to work.  Well one of these tasks is disappearing as I finish off
working at the end of this month.  So I should have more time to devote t=
o
the things that really matter in my life, my family and, of course, my lo=
ve
of L&C. <bg>

And finally my thoughts:  I expect that for a lot of the time I don't
really stop to appreciate the value of this list.  Yet when I download my=

mail and I see that there are few messages from the list I feel
disappointed; almost as if there is something wrong with the world.  I lo=
ok
upon the folcs who post here as friends, people with the same interests a=
nd
outlook in life as myself, though this doesn't mean that I agree with eve=
ry
post.  And although I might never meet any of these folcs in question (
though I have already been lucky enough to meet quite a few) I would feel=

bereft if this list and those who are members suddenly disappeared from m=
y
life.

Yours Jenni Debbage
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:30:39 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
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In a message dated 08/26/2000 6:37:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM writes:

<< I look
 upon the folcs who post here as friends, people with the same interests and
 outlook in life as myself, though this doesn't mean that I agree with every
 post.  And although I might never meet any of these folcs in question (
 though I have already been lucky enough to meet quite a few) I would feel
 bereft if this list and those who are members suddenly disappeared from my
 life. >>

Nicely said, Jenni.

So, when do we get the rest of Red Sky? I'm looking forward to reading it!

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:59:41 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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The one time I offered some negative criticism, I was soundly rebuked by the
author.  I thought I had made the suggestion politely, too!  Hence, I am
leary to do so again, although I realize most authors do appreciate the
feedback.  I don't write fics, but I hope I am wise enough to accept
constructive criticism in other areas.

Also, not being a fic author, I sometimes think that I am not justified in
offering suggestions, that I should leave it to those of you who have fanfic
writing experience.

So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative feedback
comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
understand your experience first hand?

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:28:48 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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In a message dated 8/26/00 9:00:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
KCrane1865@AOL.COM writes:

<<
 The one time I offered some negative criticism, I was soundly rebuked by
the
 author.  I thought I had made the suggestion politely, too!  Hence, I am
 leary to do so again, although I realize most authors do appreciate the
 feedback.  I don't write fics, but I hope I am wise enough to accept
 constructive criticism in other areas.>>

Well, depending on who the author was, you might have needed to consider the
source.  There is an author who posts to this list who has rebuked just
about
everyone who has ever offered any constructive criticism, even if the
criticism was sent via private email rather than the list.  This particular
individual appears to be incapable of accepting any negative comments, even
if making changes based on said comments would greatly improve her writing.

I don't think that just because you were rebuked means that you shouldn't
post comments to the list, or send them in a private email, if you are more
comfortable with that.  Generally speaking, if I have something fairly
negative to say, I'll send it privately, but that's just me.

<< Also, not being a fic author, I sometimes think that I am not justified
in
 offering suggestions, that I should leave it to those of you who have
fanfic
 writing experience.

 So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative feedback
 comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
 understand your experience first hand? >>

Just because you don't write yourself doesn't mean that you aren't capable
of
being a good judge of what you read.  Most art critics aren't artists. <G>
In fact, I think that sometimes a non-writer can offer a different
perspective than can a writer.  Sometimes a writer will be able to see what
another author intended even if it's not so clear to everyone else.

I have only written one complete fic, and am currently trying to finish my
second, but I like feedback from everyone.  And while I must admit that I'd
like to think that I, and therefore what I write, am perfect, I know that
I'm
not.  If I want to improve, I need to know what is weak; or what didn't
work.
 If no one tells me, I'll never know.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:48:20 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         alauters <alauters@CSD.UWM.EDU>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Personally, I love any kind of feedback, be it negative or positive. I've
had some very constructive criticism directed my way privately for my
current fic, and I've found it very helpful. It's always helpful to have
extra eyes -- writers and readers both -- to point out inconsistencies,
raise challenges and in other ways help improve a story.

In some ways, I think readers who don't write might be the best judges of
some fics. If a story grabs them, holds their attention and makes them want
more of it, then I'd consider that successful. Good readers also are more
likely to spot plot inconsistencies and details, too.

The key to good criticism is pointing out what might specifically be
corrected and why, as well as offering gentle opinions and suggestions. I
think people on this list have been rather good at that. :)

Just my two cents,

Amy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:02:51 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
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Here's hoping this thread hasn't been closed.  I spent some time
on my answer because I think it's an important question.

In a message dated 8/25/00 10:46:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
w.m.richards@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

<< So why is this so? >>

Just a guess Wendy, but since this is the time of year in the US at least
when
everyone is gearing up  for the fall - ( just one example getting the kids
up
to
and including college age - back to school) maybe that's what's affecting
things.
I hope so.  I miss everyones' mail and my -'oh my gosh, I have x number of
messsages to plow through.'

<<Reason 1:  It's now more than three years since any new episodes of L&C
were
shown. People are just losing interest.>>

Not me.  Still watching it daily or TV or tapes and writing stories as well.

<<Reason 3: The existence of the Message Boards.>>

???? my only comment - I don't know but I still find the boards cumbersome.

<< feedback has always been thinner on the ground, and now authors consider
they've been really
fortunate if they get even one comment on a single instalment. (A separate
question, for anyone who cares to take this up. Why is feedback less
forthcoming on this list? A number of people have asked me this privately,
and I have been unable to come up with a plausible explanation).>>

>From my experience - While feedback is thin, what I do get is absolutely
wonderful -
pertinent and insightful  - I've revised and added entire sections to my
stories based on the feedback from this listserv so I hope it continues even
if thin.

<<There are also FoLC who used to participate here and who don't
tend to post on the MBs - or perhaps not in the fic section, anyway>>

Mea Culpa - I rarely post to the MBs

<<This time last year, there were also
quizzes and challenges in progress, with lots of responses; though perhaps
list-members are tired of quizzes now>>

Ditto.  I know I should respond to the quizzes.
I love them -  but by the time I post the answers are
already available.  But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the quizzes.
I do very much so.

<<Here, we used to discuss topics such as characterisation in fics,
character
motivation, the benefits of using an editor, the nature of feedback, our
preferences in stories, what motivates people to write, how writers get
ideas for their stories, and so on.>>

And these have been if anything even more useful to me than feedback.

<>

All of the above. That's why I post here rather than to the message boards.

Charlotte  - aka Daydreamer80
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:22:23 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Regarding Wendy's Comments on the List
MIME-Version: 1.0
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HI, slipping out of lurkdom for a minute to add my thoughts to Wendy's
comments.  Personally,  I find the MBs easier to deal with for a few
reasons.
 First, since I was a fic writer for a while I found the fact that one got
more feedback on the boards gratifying.
Also, (and this is a big one for me), the message boards are accessible from
work, while the list is an email vehicle and only on my home computer.  I
tend to have more time to check on and comment while on breaks at work then
I
have while at home.  The service at work is also a lot faster.  (Of course,
for those that know me, this all becomes moot soon).  And lastly, I'm lazy.
It's easier to click on the 'post reply' button than it is to go in and
create a separate email.  (and don't give me that 'cut and piece reply'
stuff
since I'm too inept to figure that out).

I do find that I can delete a lot of the list entries just by reading the
header.  I ignore all fics posted here.  I have committed to the MBs as my
main vehicle to comment on fics in progress, and I keep current with the
archives.  I just don't have the time to read and comment on stories posted
here.  Again it's a function of time at home vs. time at work.  I do catch
up
with most of the stories once they hit the archives and I do try to comment
on any stories that appear there that I haven't already commented on if I
find the story enjoyable.

I tend to be fic oriented in my interaction, and being not terribly
interested in Dean Cain's latest actions much of the non-fic related
activity I don't even bother with.  I do find the quizzes fun, though my
guesses have been so bad that I don't actively participate .

As in anything, this list, as is true with the MBs, can be whatever you wish
to make it.  If there is a particular direction that the list has been
taking
it's because that's the way those active on it wish it to go.  If you want
it
to be more, you have to make it more.

Tank
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:59:53 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the List

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:22:23 EDT, Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM> wrote:

> First, since I was a fic writer for a while I found the fact that one got
>more feedback on the boards gratifying.
>Also, (and this is a big one for me), the message boards are accessible
from
>work, while the list is an email vehicle and only on my home computer.

> And lastly, I'm lazy.
>It's easier to click on the 'post reply' button than it is to go in and
>create a separate email.

Ah, but you're ignoring the fact that you could read from the website, the
way I do.  The website is not as "pretty" as the message boards, no fancy
colors or graphics, but it can be accessed from any computer, and to reply,
you just click on the "reply" button and type your response!  *And* it's a
lot easier to quote someone else's message because, unlike the MBs, you can
click one button to "quote original post" and then you just delete out what
you don't need, keeping what you are responding to -- and you are off.

Having done both, I actually find it easier to compose responses on the
listserv website than I do on the MBs.  For one, it's a *lot* easier to
quote
the other person's post, and second, the window you type in is a lot bigger.
<bg>

But really, to me, the point of this thread is not to explain why one likes
the MB better or worse -- but it's to try to figure out what we can do to
make this more active again.

As Wendy pointed out, for *stories in progress*, yes, the MBs seem to be the
place to be.  And that's fine!  But what has disappeared from FoLCdom seems
to be discussions of fanfic as a gendre, of characterization and motivation,
of writing and of writing fanfic in particular.  There have been a very few
of these discussions in the L&C folder on the MB, but for the most part, as
Wendy says, they disappeared.

And what about for completed stories?  Another excellent point -- why aren't
people commenting more on completed stories, the way we used to?  I've
expressed my belief -- that people got scared off during the "critique wars"
:P.  Other opinions?

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:04:39 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Negative Feedback
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Me again.  I've made my feelings known on feedback in other forums in the
past but in general I've always felt that any kind of feedback is better
than
none.  To me, even negative feedback shows me that someone read my story (or
instalment) and was moved enough to say something, even if it was negative.
Indifference is a killer.  A writer needs, more than anything, to know that
someone is reading their stuff.

That said, contructive critizism (ie; negative feedback) has to be handled
with a certain amount of common sense and consideration for the author's
situation.  As someone who has received both positive and negative comments
in the past I have to say I prefer to get positive comments, but after the
initial disappointment of seeing that I did something someone didn't like, I
am strong enough to examine what was said.  Straight flame like comments can
be ignored, comments questioning plot, characterization, grammar, etc.  can
be considered and accepted or rejected by the writer as valid or the writer
ca
n decide that he/she doesn't agree and keep it the way they originally
wrote.

BUT,  many of the stories that are getting posted in instalments are being
posted for the reason of encouragement to either write, or continue to
write.
 One has to be aware of that when posting feedback.  While I won't
necessarily back down from saying what I think is wrong with a particular
story or instalment, I make sure that the author knows that it is just my
opinion, and most importantly I try to give them something positive to hang
onto also.  I never want to discourage someone from writing.  Straight
negative feedback can kill a writer fairly quickly if they get the
impression
that what they write is no good.  While it's nice to get feedback that can
help one improve their story, they still have to feel that the story, and
their writing is worth the time and effort to improve.
Of course, that's just my opinion <g>

Tank  (who now heads back into list lurkdom)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:05:43 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]

I've been reading the responses to my original thread with interest, and
will comment more fully in due course, but I wanted, first, to thank
everyone who's responded so far and encourage others who'd like to offer an
opinion to do so.

Second, a couple of people said things similar to Charlotte's comment:

>>>Just a guess Wendy, but since this is the time of year in the US at
least when everyone is gearing up  for the fall [snip]<<<

I could understand that if the archives for this time last year also showed
a similar decline, but that's not the case, and July last year was even
busier.

One thing I'd like to clarify: my original post was not intended in any way
to suggest that individuals are being remiss in not posting more! Of course
all of us have periods in our lives when we have less time available; a few
months ago I barely had time to read list posts and would have given a
hollow laugh if someone had posted an email like mine of yesterday! But I'm
very pleased to see a number of people have commented that they value this
list; I know I enjoy being a member for all sorts of reasons.

Wendy

------------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:20:04 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:59:41 EDT, Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:

>>>The one time I offered some negative criticism, I was soundly rebuked by
the author.<<<

Ouch! That's a real shame, because it's likely to discourage you from doing
so in the future. And yet, how are writers to understand what readers (our
*audience,* remember!) like and dislike if we don't encourage and respond
to constructive criticism?!

I know there is sometimes a sort of prevailing wisdom which says 'if you
don't have anything good to say, then say nothing.' As a writer, I'd hate
to see that applied to me. I have beta-readers who read my work before it's
posted, and they know I want to hear the bad with the good. On the boards,
people do mix constructive criticism with praise; on one memorable
occasion, the comments on one story on the nfic boards were all negative,
though phrased as politely as we could manage (I won't bore anyone with the
reason why!).

But, as Kathy reminded us, as a result of particular circumstances we seem
to have arrived at a culture here where constructive criticism seems to be
unwelcome. It shouldn't be like that; most of us who post stories here now
use a format in which we indicate the kind of feedback we'd welcome. I
haven't seen anyone type 'only glowing praise requested,' so why is
everyone so reticent?

Maybe no-one likes to be seen as the person who made the negative comment
on X's story; but, on the other hand, some of us do that on the boards and
it's visible to everyone who reads them. So what's the difference?

>>>So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative
feedback comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from
folc's who understand your experience first hand?<<<

It always amazes me to see that question asked! I write for *readers,* and
I'm sure other writers would say the same. It makes sense, therefore, that
we'd want to know what readers like and dislike. Some of the very best
feedback (combining compliments and constructive criticism) comes from
FoLCs who don't themselves write; some of those non-writing FoLCs are
valued editors, precisely because they're good at giving constructive
criticism.

You don't have to be a musician to appreciate good music, or an artist to
appreciate a wonderful painting. So why would you have to be a writer
yourself to know what you like to read and why you like it?  :)

Wendy

--------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:27:22 CDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Kate said:
>So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative feedback
>comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
>who
>understand your experience first hand?
>

Oh, definitely, no.  I think most fanfic writers are addicted to feedback in
any form from anybody.  I know when I posted my "epic" (You know, the whole
40-something-kb of it. <G>) I got all sorts of feedback from all over the
place, including this list, from both writers and non-writers.  None of it
was exactly negative, but not all of it was "This story is wonderful,"
either.  And I'd say the plot of my story went much more logically for it.
So when I finally finish my other story I'm working on, I hope to get much
more "negative" feedback, from here or the message boards.

And as long as I'm posting, I'm going to bring something else up.  People
keep point out the sheer number of users on the message boards, but I don't
think that quite accurate.  Not all of those 828 registered users read
fanfic.  I read both the Lois and Clark and the fanfic folders, and I'd say
at least half of the Lois and Clark posters, never cross over to fanfic.
Besides that, not all of the registered users are still active.  You have to
be registered to post or reply on the message boards.  Some of that number
has got to be people who posted my half a dozen times and then lost
interest.  As far as I know, it's not possible to *un*-register, so they're
still included in the 828.  Heck, that number even includes that gentleman
from a Chris Reeve board who came to, um, "discuss."

Anyway, for interesting discussion, I'd much prefer the list.  Besides the
fact that something about the message boards makes me shy, no one on the MBs
ever gives fun little grammar lessons or gives out the weight of a Siberian
tiger. <g>  And the message boards don't often ramble into other interesting
topics, as this list is so prone too.  So if we went back to forty or fifty
posts a day, I'd be perfectly happy.  As it is, my spam mail often
out-numbers the lists posts, which is not a trend I'd like to keep up.

Jessi
jessi914@hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:59:23 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Chipmunks <chipmunks@GMX.NET>
Subject:      Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the List
In-Reply-To:  <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L%2000082610595424@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi, guys,

I only resubscribed to this list a month or two ago after a longer  absence

I had noticed a cutdown in list traffic but had assumed this was due to the
summer and vacation season.

One thing I miss on here is the discussion of writing and language issues.
Being a language buff and writer-wanna-be, I had always enjoyed those
tremendously and learned a lot there, too.

As for the message boards versus this list, the messsage boards are not
accessible for me because i am blind and my screen reading equipment
doesn't handle more graphic intensive things that easily. whereas I am used
to handling fairly large quantities of listmail with my email program,
sometimes over 300 messages a day. So a little more traffic on this list
would be manageable. <g>

I hope we will keep the list alive as a resource and forum  for writers and
readers alike.

cheers,

Doris
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:13:26 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Rich & Dawn <rfield@ROANOKE.INFI.NET>
Subject:      Message Board Index update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi FoLCs!

The following stories were updated in the index tables at
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/lnc.html this week:

BEGINNINGS: NAN SMITH
DEAR LOIS: SHAYNET
EXODUS , THE: THANATOS
GROWING PAINS: AERM1 (AKA ANN)
HIDING IN THE SHADOWS: IRENE DUTCHAK
JUST ANOTHER UNDERCOVER ASSIGNMENT: WENDY RICHARDS
LOVE WELL WORTH THE WAIT , A: TRACEYLYNN
MARTHA CHRONICLES 3 ,THE: ATTALANTA (AKA CHRISTY KUBIT)
OPERATION: METROPOLIS: JOMARCH
PENFRIEND: THE EARLY YEARS , THE: JOY SOWELL
SURVIVE HER: SHAYNET
UNTITLED: RCPEACHES2 (AKA ROSE COOKSON)
W&T3 - MORTIS AMORE: WENDY RICHARDS

And added to the Archive this week:

How I Spent My Summer Vacation by Leuch

Enjoy!
The Index Crew
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:43:36 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the List
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Folcs:  Me again.  I began to notice the dearth of commentary here back
at the beginning of the summer and attributed it to just that--the beginning
of summer and corresponding lack of time.  I first began noticing that
nothing was happening on Wednesdays, then Fridays too.  Then the silence
spread to other days.  I hope that the end of summer will bring more
correspondence.

Kathy wrote:

> But really, to me, the point of this thread is not to explain why one
likes
> the MB better or worse -- but it's to try to figure out what we can do to
> make this more active again.

-----IMO one of the ways to make this list active again is being illustrated
right here and now.  Ask an interesting question, make a definitive
controversial statement and people want to respond and discuss.  What's
happening here is being done objectively and with consideration for opposing
points of view.  No one is getting angry or making nasty remarks.  All of
this, I think, encourages others to participate.

Kate said:

>The one time I offered some negative criticism, I was soundly rebuked by
the
author.
Kathy said:

> And what about for completed stories?  Another excellent point -- why
aren't
> people commenting more on completed stories, the way we used to?  I've
> expressed my belief -- that people got scared off during the "critique
wars"

-----I think that's unfortunate and, I hope,   atypical of the responses
from these folcs. I've posited a completed story in the Archive, The Circle
Game, and one on this list, Married, With Children, and had almost no
feedback from this list.  I know that I would welcome even a 'I didn't like
your story and don't like the way you write because....'  It's the 'because'
part that really helps.  Of course, hearing that you did like something
helps too. <g>  And  I've been really guilty of not replying myself.  I've
had Judith Tylke's Part 2 of And If We Had But One Chance  (which is
terrific)since May and haven't done her the courtesy of the detailed reply I
want to make.

Kate wrote:

>I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative feedback
comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
understand your experience first hand?

-----I used to be reluctant to respond because I hadn't written anything,
but now that I have, I find that I want to hear from everyone.  Writers give
one perspective, readers another and they are all valuable. And if other
writers are like me, they are using their time to write and haven't had time
to read and comment.  I have really missed having the time to read what's
shown up in the Archive this year.

If the coming of Fall doesn't naturally bring back the lively give and take,
maybe we should appoint someone to bring up a 'topic of the month' to keep
things going.  People could respond any time during the month and not feel
that they had missed the boat by replying too late.  I hesitate to suggest
such regulation, since the free-wheeling spirit of this group is what keeps
it so fascinating.  But if worse comes to worse, why not give it a try.

Jude

----- Original Message -----
From: Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the List

> On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:22:23 EDT, Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>
> > First, since I was a fic writer for a while I found the fact that one
got
> >more feedback on the boards gratifying.
> >Also, (and this is a big one for me), the message boards are accessible
from
> >work, while the list is an email vehicle and only on my home computer.
>
> > And lastly, I'm lazy.
> >It's easier to click on the 'post reply' button than it is to go in and
> >create a separate email.
>
> Ah, but you're ignoring the fact that you could read from the website, the
> way I do.  The website is not as "pretty" as the message boards, no fancy
> colors or graphics, but it can be accessed from any computer, and to
reply,
> you just click on the "reply" button and type your response!  *And* it's a
> lot easier to quote someone else's message because, unlike the MBs, you
can
> click one button to "quote original post" and then you just delete out
what
> you don't need, keeping what you are responding to -- and you are off.
>
> Having done both, I actually find it easier to compose responses on the
> listserv website than I do on the MBs.  For one, it's a *lot* easier to
quote
> the other person's post, and second, the window you type in is a lot
bigger.
> <bg>
>
>
> As Wendy pointed out, for *stories in progress*, yes, the MBs seem to be
the
> place to be.  And that's fine!  But what has disappeared from FoLCdom
seems
> to be discussions of fanfic as a gendre, of characterization and
motivation,
> of writing and of writing fanfic in particular.  There have been a very
few
> of these discussions in the L&C folder on the MB, but for the most part,
as
> Wendy says, they disappeared.
>
> :P.  Other opinions?
>
> Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:44:10 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Message Board Index update

Hi Dawn,

Thanks to you and the behind-the-scenes gang for producing this! It's a
really useful resource.

Can I make one amendment, though? 'Mortis Amorae' is actually by Tank
Wilson and myself. Oh, and when it appears on the Archive it'll be called
Mori A Amor.

Thanks,

Wendy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:03:05 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:
> The one time I offered some negative criticism, I
> was soundly rebuked by the
> author.  I thought I had made the suggestion
> politely, too!  Hence, I am
> leary to do so again, although I realize most
> authors do appreciate the
> feedback.  I don't write fics, but I hope I am wise
> enough to accept
> constructive criticism in other areas.
>
> Also, not being a fic author, I sometimes think that
> I am not justified in
> offering suggestions, that I should leave it to
> those of you who have fanfic
> writing experience.
>
> So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter
> if the negative feedback
> comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to
> come only from folc's who
> understand your experience first hand?
>
> Kate

Kate, I definitely want specific feedback - both
positive and negative - from readers and writers
alike.  I do prefer my criticism to be constructive,
however, not along the lines of 'I hate this', but
more like 'this doesn't work for me because...'

I usually find that if I'm open to criticism, it
spawns ideas either for other fics or to make my
current fic better.

However, having said that, I personally find it easier
to provide that type of feedback on the boards as it's
easier to comment on one section at a time.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:54:01 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:59:41 EDT, Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:

>The one time I offered some negative criticism, I was soundly rebuked by
the
>author.  I thought I had made the suggestion politely, too!

I, too, am sorry this happened.  I have had constructive criticism rebuked
in
the past as well, and it always frustrates me.  Not that an author should
make changes just because I said so! But when everything other than "this
story is perfect" is met with whining and a defensive attitude, it makes me
wonder why the author didn't just say "compliments only" at the beginning of
their story.  In those cases, I will just stop posting comments about that
particular story -- but usually not before making a comment as list mom
reminding people that constructive criticism *is* allowed (encouraged!) on
this list.

What I'd like to see more of, given that not as many people have been
posting
their stories here, is feedback on Archive stories.  This was quite common
in
the early days of this listserv.  Why has it stopped?  I do see several
recommendations for stories on the Archive, but almost zero commentary or
discussion about them. Why?

I didn't post "When Friends Become Lovers" on this listserv because of the
length, but I did open it up for comments on the listserv.  But I got maybe
a
handful of "this was great" posts here.  Yes, many people sent private
feedback, and I am grateful for that.  But given how long the story was, I
was really expecting some real discussion -- agreement and disagreement on
characterization, for example.

There is nothing I like more than a good debate on characterization.  I may
not agree with someone's take on the characters, but I love explaining why I
made a choice that I did.  I think this kind of discussion makes people
better writers, because they really have to defend *why* a character did
something, as opposed to just glossing over it.

So, in case people think it's not allowed -- this listserv *is* the place
for
fanfic discussion, even if a story isn't posted her originally, or even if
the author isn't subscribed.  I'm not saying we should be "trashing" a story
behind an author's back.  But flaming and rude behavior isn't allowed *
anyway*, and if debate, pro and con, is done politely, any Archive story is
fair game.

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:01:53 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree with Irene.  I welcome constructive criticism to my stories.  I
did get a little defensive about one story, but that had nothing to do
with the criticism appearing on this list.  It had to do with receiving
a couple of rather nasty private e-mails on the subject, and I reacted
as might have been expected.  Constructive criticism is a good thing,
and I want it.  I've revised more than one story because of it, and I
would hope people would continue to send it to me, whether the story was
posted here or on the archive.  What I don't want to hear is "This
sucks!" with no reason why, or any idea of what the problem was. <g>

Nan

Irene D. wrote:

> --- Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:
> > The one time I offered some negative criticism, I
> > was soundly rebuked by the
> > author.  I thought I had made the suggestion
> > politely, too!  Hence, I am
> > leary to do so again, although I realize most
> > authors do appreciate the
> > feedback.  I don't write fics, but I hope I am wise
> > enough to accept
> > constructive criticism in other areas.
> >
> > Also, not being a fic author, I sometimes think that
> > I am not justified in
> > offering suggestions, that I should leave it to
> > those of you who have fanfic
> > writing experience.
> >
> > So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter
> > if the negative feedback
> > comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to
> > come only from folc's who
> > understand your experience first hand?
> >
> > Kate
>
> Kate, I definitely want specific feedback - both
> positive and negative - from readers and writers
> alike.  I do prefer my criticism to be constructive,
> however, not along the lines of 'I hate this', but
> more like 'this doesn't work for me because...'
>
> I usually find that if I'm open to criticism, it
> spawns ideas either for other fics or to make my
> current fic better.
>
> However, having said that, I personally find it easier
> to provide that type of feedback on the boards as it's
> easier to comment on one section at a time.
>
> Irene
>
> =====
> sirenegold@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:15:19 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
In-Reply-To:  <e0.9166432.26d9193d@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Kate said:
>So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative feedback
>comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
>understand your experience first hand?

I like to hear from =readers=.  That is, after all, who I'm writing
for.  If the reader misses a plot point or doesn't understand a bit of
dialogue, that means I haven't done my job as a writer (which as I see it
is translating the story in my head into words, which is an inexact process
at best!).  If those things are pointed out to me, I can try to do a better
job next time!

To me, it's often a fine line between being too subtle for the reader to
pick up cues, and   beating the reader over the head with the obvious.  I'm
delighted when someone writes to say, "I got that," and disappointed (in
myself) when they write and say, "Huh?"

In short, I like hearing from everybody!

Becky

rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:21:18 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Attention: Marci Becking

"MARCI BECKING & GORD BURT" <marcibb@home.com>

The above email address submitted a story to the L&C Fanfic Archive last
week.  There was a problem with the file, but when I tried to reply to
inform
the author, the email address does not work.

If Marci is a member of this listserv, or if you know her, can you please
let
her know that she needs to contact me regarding her story.

Thank you,

Kathy

_________________________________
Kathy Brown
Editor-In-Chief
Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive:  <www.lcfanfic.com>
kathybrown91@home.com OR kathyb@lcfanfic.com
KathyB on IRC
_________________________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:39:18 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Anne Carlson <ACdrift@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Fanfic Feedback (was Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the
List)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi All,

I enjoy reading stories in progress.  I don't often respond to them until
the
entire story is completed.  I feel the "great job" and "post more" feedback
is rather a waste of time if it isn't accompanied by some reasons as to why
a
person liked this or that.

In a message dated 08/26/2000 10:45:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET writes:

> -----I think that's unfortunate and, I hope, atypical of the responses
>  from these folcs. I've posited a completed story in the Archive, The
Circle
>  Game, and one on this list, Married, With Children, and had almost no
>  feedback from this list.

I have read and printed and reread several stories this summer.  My problem
is that I am crunched for time.  Jude, I have all the annotations and notes
on your story, "The Circle Game".  I have been meaning to write the feedback
coherently for weeks.  It's just a big deal for me to sit down and compose a
letter that I feel is valuable to the author.  That's what I envy so much
about all of you authors.  You sit down and create wonderful prose - most in
an unbelievable amount of time.  I feel that I can write well, but it takes
so long.

Also, I typically write back directly to the authors.  I remember posting to
this list last summer my feedback to Sheila about her S6 Trilogy, "Walk in
My
Shoes".  It just feels strange posting a response to the entire list that is
addressed to one person.

I enjoy reading the correspondence on this fanfic list.  I also enjoy
reading
from the fanfic postings on Zoom's Boards.  These days, this e-mail list and
the MB are the only two places that I check regularly.

Well, I'm off to pick up the kids from swim practice and do all the other
fun
stuff a mother of two youngsters and full time teacher does this time of
year!  Jude, I will get that feedback to you tomorrow.  And if you want, I
will post it here as well.

You guys are the best!
Anne (ACdrift@aol.com)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:09:28 +0100
Reply-To:     LabRat <labrat@cableinet.co.uk>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Organization: LabRat
Subject:      Re: Message Board Index update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wendy wrote:

>
> Can I make one amendment, though? 'Mortis Amorae' is actually by Tank
> Wilson and myself. Oh, and when it appears on the Archive it'll be called
> Mori A Amor.
>
Don't worry, Wendy. Dawn's update list doesn't go into specific details
(like denoting that this week's list updated part two of MA only and not
part one) - it's just a rough, general indication of which stories were
included in the list.Part nos aren't included to save time and space.

The entry in this week's update list refers only to part two, because it was
in this week's update. Part one, by Tank, isn't included because it was in
the previous week's update. That's why you are listed solely as the author.
Because the entry is for part two alone.

The list entry is correct. It lists part one as being by Tank and part two
as being by you.

Sorry for the confusion.

LabRat :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:18:37 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Feedback (was Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the
              List)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I appreciate all the supportive comments made in reply to my earlier post.
I
will try to participate more in the feedback,  definitely expressing from
the
reader's pov.

I honestly did not realize that there was a connection between the list and
the archive and that archive stories are suitable for discussion here, other
than recommendations.  Thanks for that info, Kathy.

To be blunt, I usually only read stories I think I will enjoy, unless
recommended, so the negative feedback/constructive criticsm would be minimal
anyway.   But, if all of you talented authors want more readership
critiques,
I'm game!  Please no negative feedback of my negative feedback, oh wait, I
guess if I want authors to have thicker skin, I should develop it too <g>.

What a great discussion!
Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:08:45 -0500
Reply-To:     cndcherry@mindspring.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         --- <cndcherry@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Feedback (was Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the
              List)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Since it looks like we may be on the cusp of a new dawn of fanfic=
 feedback and discussion,
I thought I would take this time to make a suggestion.  Go to

http://ljc.simplenet.com/lowerdecks/crit.html

and read an article called "The Mannerly Art Of Critique" by Peg=
 Robinson. =A9 1997

It's very long, otherwise I would post it myself, because as the=
 author says at the beginning,
"distribute freely.  The more folks who know how to give and take=
 crit ethically, humanely,
and usefully, the better."  An invaluable article about helpful=
 feedback for fanfic.

Just, hopefully a gentle and very unneeded reminder that=
 encouraging even negative
feedback doesn't mean open season on authors  :)
cerise

At 8/26/00 8:18:00 PM, you wrote:
>I appreciate all the supportive comments made in reply to my=
 earlier post.  I
>will try to participate more in the feedback,  definitely=
 expressing from the
>reader's pov.
>
>I honestly did not realize that there was a connection between=
 the list and
>the archive and that archive stories are suitable for discussion=
 here, other
>than recommendations.  Thanks for that info, Kathy.
>
>To be blunt, I usually only read stories I think I will enjoy,=
 unless
>recommended, so the negative feedback/constructive criticsm=
 would be minimal
>anyway.   But, if all of you talented authors want more=
 readership critiques,
>I'm game!  Please no negative feedback of my negative feedback,=
 oh wait, I
>guess if I want authors to have thicker skin, I should develop=
 it too <g>.
>
>What a great discussion!
>Kate
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:49:40 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:01:53 -0700, Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
wrote:

>What I don't want to hear is "This
>sucks!" with no reason why, or any idea of what the problem was. <g>

I don't think any of us does, but I always "consider the source" in those
cases.  I mean, if that's the best they can do for a comment, do I really
care what they think?? ;)

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:08:46 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Feedback (was Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the
              List)

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:18:37 EDT, Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>I honestly did not realize that there was a connection between the list and
>the archive and that archive stories are suitable for discussion here,
other
>than recommendations.  Thanks for that info, Kathy.

Well, there isn't an official connection ... in fact, we used to kind of
downplay any because, in the old days, some people used to assume that if
they posted their story here, the Archive would somehow just magically pick
it up and upload it.  And since that *doesn't* happen, we have emphasized
the
distinction.

Things have gotten a bit fuzzy now, though, since I took over this list.
They are two separate forums, but I don't see why that should impact fanfic
discussion. We don't have Archive message boards, so why not discuss stories
here? :)

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 08:55:50 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi everyone,

Coming out of lurkdom again two days running must be a record for me but =
I
have to comment on this thread.  I too welcome all fdk both positive and
negative, although I would like to think that the negative fdk back would=

also be constructive.

It is in the nature of things that not everyone will like the same story =
or
even all segments of a story and if a reader thinks that a plot line or a=

characterisation is not well defined or is wrong then I would hope that
they woudl have the confidence to let me know.

I will be honest and say that I would be quite hurt if the only fdk I
received was in the nature of this story is awful and it would probably
make me consider if it was worth my continuing as a writer but I doubt ve=
ry
much if the people on this list would be so cruel.  =

But also, if I a story which appeared on the Archive received no fdk
whatsoever, I would start to wonder whether my writing was interesting
enough to be read.   I have noticed that lately there has been little
critique on this list of stories which appear on the Archive and I'm very=

sorry for that.  =

I also regret that readers might be afraid to comment on these stories or=

feel that they are not qualified to judge.  Authors write not for just th=
e
love of writing (though that is one of the things that motivate me) but t=
o
entertain their readers; you are our audience and you are the important
ones.  We should take note of what you tell us.

So please feel confident to tell us what you think, even if it's not alwa=
ys
favourable.  And also, if all you can think of or have the time to say is=

'enjoyed this story' then that too is appreciated.

Lastly, I second Tank's post that the list is what we the members make of=

it and interesting topics like this certainly do produce the desired
results.  Thank you Wendy for starting this thread.

Yours Jenni Debbage =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:21:08 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative
feedback
> comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
> understand your experience first hand?
>

Kate, you're our audience, so of course we want to know what you think,
good or bad.  It's one of the luxuries of being a fanfic writer - the fact
that you can get feedback from those who read your work.  Out in the world
of commercially published fiction, I imagine the majority of feedback
writers get is from literary critics and publishers - ie, not their target
audience.  So keep that difference alive, and tell us what you think of our
work.  Negative feedback is as welcome as positive feedback, as long as
it's well-reasoned and kindly expressed.

Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:01:46 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nicole Wolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey Folcs,
When I got my first negative feedback, I admit that it actually *was*
hard to take at the
first moment. It was when I tried to write my first nfiction scene. I
was
very unsure about it and I tried and retried and worked over it a lot,
before showing it to anyone. When I finally did I was pretty much
crushed
when one of my beta-readers told me it seemed forced and unnatural and
that
she wasn't able to understand the pictures I used. The other
beta-reader's
opinion wasn't much better and so my first instinct was: "Okay, I can't
do
that. It's not my style. I'm going to destroy that piece and that's it."

I was hurt and disappointed. And since it was nfiction, I was also
embarrassed. But then I swallowed my pride and started to really think
about
what they told me. I took every sentence and every word and tossed them
around and I noticed they were right in many points. And in those points
where I didn't agree, I suddenly knew exactly why I wanted to have it
this
way and not another. I realized that their suggestions weren't perfect
either and that they were open for discussions, too. So I was suddenly
able
to explain my story and my intention much better and to defend what
really
mattered to me, but to accept their help where the scene indeed didn't
work.

The result was a scene that I'm still really satisfied with. Every time
I
reread it, I think it is a good scene where every word and every picture
is
exactly as I want it.

Since that day I can honestly say that I indeed love constructive
critism
and that it's not just a phrase when I ask for it.

Nicole
--
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de

Are you always searching for news about Dean Cain?
And don't you have the time to go and find them?
Here's your solution: Go to "The Dean Cain News Page"
http://members.tripod.de/CKgroupie/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:23:13 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Feedback (was Re: Regarding Wendy's Comments on the
              List)

Dana, thanks for that link. It was a very interesting essay (though I could
have done without the sports metaphors <g>). Since L&C is the only fandom
with which I am involved, I had no idea that such vigorous critiquing went
on elsewhere; I think I can understand now why some people felt that more
open critiquing should be accepted here.

I don't think I'd be able to lay myself open to what the author of that
piece described as 'tough crit'! Nor, actually, would I like to see it on
this list; that might be better suited to private (group) emails. However,
I'd echo Kathy and say that I would like to see more discussion of fanfic
here.

Wendy

----------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:37:46 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Define 'flame'
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

OK, here's a question for possible discussion (sorry it's not about
characterisation or plot choice, Kathy <g>):

Please define the meaning of the term 'to flame'.

The other day, I was complaining to Wendy privately that people seem to use
it to mean different things, so what's the general opinion?  Does it mean:

1) to send an email or post which disagrees with someone
2) to gang up on an individual with many emails or posts expressing a
contrary opinion to that individual's
3) to be rude
4) to launch a personalised attack on an individual through the use of
copious emails or posts (by personalised, I mean of the type "you're
stupid" as opposed to "I disagree with you")
5) something else?

Yours seeking enlightenment <g>,
Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)

=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:46:26 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Virtual Seasons

On a completely different topic... I've just stumbled on this site, which
provides an index of and links to several 'virtual seasons' of TV
programmes which are no longer in production:

http://www.pvtonline.com/series/

Eagerly, I checked to see whether Lois and Clark is there. It is... but
there is only one link, which leads to the Krypton Club's TUFS. Now, TUFS
was very good, as we all know, but what about Season 5, and more important,
Season 6? Perhaps those involved could contact the hosts of this site and
ask them to add S5/6 to the listing.

For anyone who is interested in other cancelled programmes, there are links
from here to virtual seasons of 24 different TV programmes.

Wendy

-----------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:04:02 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've noticed that the negative feedback thread has generalized itself
somewhat so I think I'll chime in again.

Those who have endured me on the message boards over the last year or so
will
have heard this from me (several times) before, but the fact is I don't
write
fan fic for me.  Yes there is a certain amount of satisfaction from fleshing
out and finishing some kernel of a thought or idea that you had.  But the
creative part is all done in your head, writing it down is work, and if I'm
going to work I want to get paid for it.  The coin of fanfic comes in the
form of feedback and critique.  Positive feedback and praise is a great
morale boost and really gives a person a good feeling and makes the writer
want to do it again to get more of that good feeling.  Negative critique, if
given in a constructive way, (and that means you support your opinion with
your reasoning) after the quick initial disappointment can give the writer
some 'food for thought' as it were.  If the writer cares enough about what
they wrote they will be forced to re-examine what they wrote and they can
make it better just by that process, even if they decide that the critic is
full of hooey.  At least the writer knows that the person giving negative
feedback read the story and cared enough to write.

Posting in instalments generally serves two purposes.  First, it's used as a
prod to keep writing.  It's very difficult to write some of these longer
pieces in a vacuum, then toss it out there once it's finished and hope for
the best.  It's nice to receive encouragement along the way.  Also I've used
the fact that there are people waiting to read the next instalment as a sort
of phantom 'deadline' on my next instalment.  The other natural reason has
been mentioned many times.  By posting in instalments you are tapping into
all of FoLCdom to use as Beta readers.   It's nice to find out about some
problems that you might have early on in a story that you can 'fix' before
it
effects the rest of the story.  It's really a pain to try and go back and
fix
a whole story after the fact.  Of course, none of that works if no one
comments.

The crux of this whole discussion is;  feedback (both pos. and neg.) is what
drives fanfic.  Obviously there is no money in it, nor was the time spent
writing used to advance your career or family life.  Feedback is what tells
the writer that he/she has an audience for their stuff.  We all know that
there are a myriad of excuses for not being able to comment, but the writer
can only assume that you didn't read it.  There are types of stories that we
may not like so we don't read them (Jenni Debbage is a terrific writer but I
don't generally like stories that feature young children, so I miss out on
her talents at times), everyone has their favorites.  But for the writer,
silence is indifference, and indifference is the killer.

I'm not trying to lay any guilt trip on anyone who reads fic and doesn't
comment for any of a dozen legitiment reasons, but do remember;  if you have
20-30 minutes to invest in reading a fic, is it unreasonable of the writer
to
expect you to take another 5 minutes to shoot them a comment on the story
whether it be private or through a public forum like this or the message
boards?  Writers love long well thought out feedback but even comments like;
'Loved your story, I really like the way you write Lois.' , serve a purpose
too.  It shows the writer that he/she is not writing in that vacuum but that
there is indeed an audience out there for their fics.

Sorry for the long rant.
Tank
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:32:00 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/27/00 11:04:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TankW1@AOL.COM
writes:

<< I'm not trying to lay any guilt trip on anyone who reads fic and doesn't
 comment for any of a dozen legitiment reasons, but do remember;  if you
have
 20-30 minutes to invest in reading a fic, is it unreasonable of the writer
to
 expect you to take another 5 minutes to shoot them a comment on the story
 whether it be private or through a public forum like this or the message
 boards?  Writers love long well thought out feedback but even comments
like;
 'Loved your story, I really like the way you write Lois.' , serve a purpose
 too.  It shows the writer that he/she is not writing in that vacuum but
that
 there is indeed an audience out there for their fics.
  >>

I'll second that.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:29:04 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ok, I'm anxious to give some actual feedback, so I will go read Tank's
latest
Future installment (which I was thrilled to see on the archive) and in the
meantime, hope for more from Jenni and Pam??
I will try to make constructive, intelligent remarks, and put away my horror
of hurting feelings if I need to make any negative remarks, which hopefully
will be phrased in such a way that authors will thank me for my invaluable
assistance ;).

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:31:09 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Elisabeth A. Tull" <all4_mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: In need of more info! :)

Great question, Karen!  I don't think there are any particular laws
regarding that matter, although I'm not familiar with the specific legal
code of New Troy <VBG>.  However, I don't believe the belongings would be
released if foul play were suspected.  Instead, the home/apartment would be
considered a crime scene.  I'm not sure who would pay rent, in the
meanwhile.  Perhaps the landlord would be out a month or two's worth of
rent.  Perhaps not.

As I said, I'm not an expert on New Troy law.  What about you?  (wink)

Elisabeth
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:59:12 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Define 'flame'

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:37:46 +0100, yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET> wrote:

>Please define the meaning of the term 'to flame'.

>4) to launch a personalised attack on an individual through the use of
>copious emails or posts (by personalised, I mean of the type "you're
>stupid" as opposed to "I disagree with you")

This is the definition of "flame".  Being rude is not acceptable either, but
I don't think it crosses the line into flaming.

Obvious flaming is pretty easy to identify -- "what a bunch of morons to
like
a show that was cancelled 3 years ago!" or "if you believe that, you're just
stupid!"  Swearing also is a pretty clear indication someone has lost
control
and has crossed the line.

But I think the point you were trying to make is that one person's flame is
another person's "rude comment" is another person's "discussion".  Some
people will always have thinner skins than others.  This is true in real
life
as well as on-line.

On-line, at least, we have list moms who get to have the final say. <bg>

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:15:11 -0500
Reply-To:     truitt22@flash.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         timothy truitt <truitt22@FLASH.NET>
Organization: tnt technical services
Subject:      Re: future restored
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Tank
just reread A Future Restored after seeing it posted on the archives.
loved it the second time around more than the first.
I know your situation about computer time - but you have to keep writing.
I love your stories
merry
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:21:36 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Rich & Dawn <rfield@ROANOKE.INFI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Message Board Index update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Wendy,

> Thanks to you and the behind-the-scenes gang for producing this! It's a
> really useful resource.

Thank you!  We're glad to know that folcs are using it and find it helpful.
And anything you find that needs to be updated or changed, please let me
know.

> Can I make one amendment, though? 'Mortis Amorae' is actually by Tank
> Wilson and myself. Oh, and when it appears on the Archive it'll be called
> Mori A Amor.

Thanks, LabRat, for explaining this one.  One of the disadvantages of being
on digest is I don't get posts until the next day.

Thanks!
Dawn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:36:29 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Virtual Seasons

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:46:26 -0500, Wendy Richards <
wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK> wrote:

>On a completely different topic... I've just stumbled on this site, which
>provides an index of and links to several 'virtual seasons' of TV
>programmes which are no longer in production:
>
>http://www.pvtonline.com/series/
>
>Eagerly, I checked to see whether Lois and Clark is there. It is... but
>there is only one link, which leads to the Krypton Club's TUFS.

I took a look at their FAQ and this was in there:

>>>>>>>>>>
I have a virtual series but you already have the same series on your site.
Would you consider switching to mine?

No. We support our series 100%. If you think that the series isn't living up
to its potential, try to change it from the inside. Apply for a position on
the staff and try to alter it that way. We plan to
stick with the same series until it is wrapped up. This also avoids
confusion
and inconsistency for fans.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

and

>>>>>>>>>>>>
I've seen several virtual seasons for this series. Why did you pick the one
you did? I like the other one better.

Sometimes, it is because we only knew of the one at the time. Other times,
we
made a choice to carry this series over the other. If you enjoy the other
series more, we encourage you to read it.
These episodes are created for your enjoyment, and you should read the one
that makes you happy.
<<<<<<<<<<<<

This makes it sounds to me that they only want to carry one fanfic series
per
show, for clarity, though I'm not sure if that would hold for already
completed fanfic series like TUFS and S5/6.

I do remember being contacted by someone, some times ago, about a project
like this.  I *think* it was this same name, though if I remember correctly,
they didn't want to just do links to completed sites at that time.  They
were
just getting the project off the ground and wanted to use S5/6 as a template
for other shows ... very complimentary, except they wanted to run S5/6 on
their site as if it was being run for the first time. They didn't want to
link to our sites, but rather make it look like they were sponsoring the
fanfic series themselves.  I didn't like this idea, and after a few replies,
I stopped the conversation.

>From the look of their site now, though, they've made some better choices,
and have enough new material to be willing to link to completed series
sites.

>From the FAQ above, I'm not sure they'd be willing to put S5/6 on as a link
.. but if anyone else wants to ask, I won't mind. <g>

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:47:57 -0500
Reply-To:     bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "B. B. Medos" <bbmedos@BOOKSANCTUARY.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])

On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:21:08 +0100, yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET> wrote:
>Out in the world
>of commercially published fiction, I imagine the majority of feedback
>writers get is from literary critics and publishers - ie, not their target
>audience.  So keep that difference alive, and tell us what you think of
our
>work.  Negative feedback is as welcome as positive feedback, as long as
>it's well-reasoned and kindly expressed.

Actually, one might be surprised about just how much interaction authors
have nowadays with the advent of the internet. This is especially true in
popular fiction genres like romance, sci-fi/fantasy and mystery, but I
would imagine even the rest are finding much more immediate contact with
fans to be the norm for them.

And curiously enough, when fans and authors do meet in this fast-paced
arena, they appear to face the exact same fundamental questions and
problems that are found on a "fan fiction" list like this one - how much is
too much feedback, exactly what constitutes positive and negative AND who
is qualified to sit in judgment. Believe me, having just had to hold my own
in a similar discussion on a romance list where I got caught between
reviewers and authors as just a plain old reader, I've experienced it first
hand. What distinguishes a reader from an official reviewer? On the
internet, not much. Seems like everyone and their first cousin has a review
site nowadays.

There's also a wide range of approaches out there as to what constitutes a
"real" review but basically the extremes in reviewing run in two very
distinct directions - from simple reader recommendations to intense
critical judgments - with a lot of reviews falling anywhere between those
two. Needless to say, authors AND reviewers have a considerably different
reaction to the two extremes and sometimes the results are not pretty.
Authors, for the most part, can get downright testy when someone takes it
upon themselves to "critique" their baby - imagine that - while many
reviewers think anything that only makes a "recommendation" is a cop-out
and not even honest.

Sound familiar? <G>

The thing is that both approaches are valid . . . IN THE RIGHT PLACE. The
real problem is not that they aren't valid but knowing when and where they
are useful and, more importantly, appropriate. Which brings me to the "slow
list" question and my own feelings about this list.

I do generally lurk here nowadays because of personal time constraints but,
to be perfectly honest, I'd probably post more if there was more discussion
that I was actually interested in taking part in. When it comes to
discussing fanfiction, I'm much more interested in content than I'll ever
be in the technicalities of writing. When it comes to a discussion of
grammar and language, well, I've got other things I could be doing. Nor do
I really want to read a detailed "critique" of anyone's story, including
mine. Not on a public list, at any rate, and only from personal editors in
private, thank you very much. Frankly, I've never been convinced that this
list is the right place for anything that intense so when it slides in that
direction, I lurk at the drop of a hat.

OTOH, content issues are a completely different thing and a heck of a lot
more interesting to discuss. What's more discussions of content go
hand-in-hand with pure reader recommendations in a lot of different ways.
Not only do specific and detailed recommendations - both positive and
negative - stimulate other readers to find new-to-them stories to consume,
but they also stimulate writers to look at things in ways they may not have
thought about before, both on previous and future stories. So they both
benefit.

So, yeah, I've been busy, but I've also been disinterested in
participating, too. And I'll also admit that that in turn has made me very
disinterested in writing fan fiction because I do miss the stimulus of
reading fascinating content-related discussions here . . . even if I don't
take part in all of them all the time.

Beverly :-) bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Beverly's Book Sanctuary http://www.booksanctuary.com
Check out the changes beginning with Bev's Notebook!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:55:43 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Virtual Seasons

Kathy, thanks for your reply. I admit, I was lazy and didn't read the
FAQ...

That's a shame, though, that their approach is so rigid that they will not
carry banners for more than one virtual season for a particular TV show. In
the case of Lois and Clark, the S5/S6 project gave us *two* seasons, not
just one, and it's a shame visitors to that site are only being told about
TUFS. Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed TUFS, and think there are some great
episodes in there. But there are also wonderful episodes in S5/S6.

Wendy
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:07:22 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Linda Hoffman <lindah462@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi Everyone
    I'm usually a lurker.  I think my last post was in October 1999.
I know I'm remiss in sending feeding back.  I try to send it to the
author privately.  I feel uncomfortable sending a post to the whole
list if I asking the author a question. Could I make a suggestion:
when the authors segment their stories that they put their email
address on each installment?  Each installment states the authors
preference for feedback but no address to send it to.
                        Linda

Linda Hoffman
lindah462@home.com
lindacl or IRC
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:34:08 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'd like to recommend Tank Wilson's Future series, the
last part of which arrived at the archives today.

Tank has taken an upsetting premise, a devastating
tragedy, and emotional upheaval and has combined them
to create a wonderful series of stories.

Many people will be reluctant to give them a try as
the first one is 'technically' a deathfic.  All I'd
say is hang in there and persevere because there's a
lot of enjoyment to be found in reading these!

Tank is a wonderful writer with a lyrical turn of
phrase.  This premise could have been a travesty if
handled by the wrong hands.  Tank was competent - more
than competent - and turned it into a brilliant
trilogy.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:19:39 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Very good point.  I, for one, love feedback and hadn't thought of providing
my email address in the email itself.  Take a look at my new sig file :)

Tara

---
"Because you can't cotton to evil.  No sir.  You have to smack evil on the
nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say, 'Bad evil. Bad, BAD
evil.'"      - The Tick

Senior Master Sergeant StarKitty
 Team: SG-6 - Search/Rescue
 Unit: Sorcerers of the Tau`ri
 (at www.stargatesg-1.com)
 starkitty__@hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Hoffman" <lindah462@HOME.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative

> Hi Everyone
>     I'm usually a lurker.  I think my last post was in October 1999.
> I know I'm remiss in sending feeding back.  I try to send it to the
> author privately.  I feel uncomfortable sending a post to the whole
> list if I asking the author a question. Could I make a suggestion:
> when the authors segment their stories that they put their email
> address on each installment?  Each installment states the authors
> preference for feedback but no address to send it to.
>                         Linda
>
> Linda Hoffman
> lindah462@home.com
> lindacl or IRC
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:21:41 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         StarKitty <starkitty__@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I agree!  It's too bad Tank has 'retired'.  Maybe he'll come out of
retirement soon and write us some more of his wonderful stories.

Tara
---
"Because you can't cotton to evil.  No sir.  You have to smack evil on the
nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say, 'Bad evil. Bad, BAD
evil.'"      - The Tick

Senior Master Sergeant StarKitty
 Team: SG-6 - Search/Rescue
 Unit: Sorcerers of the Tau`ri
 (at www.stargatesg-1.com)
 starkitty__@hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 2:34 PM
Subject: Fanfic Recommendation

> I'd like to recommend Tank Wilson's Future series, the
> last part of which arrived at the archives today.
>
> Tank has taken an upsetting premise, a devastating
> tragedy, and emotional upheaval and has combined them
> to create a wonderful series of stories.
>
> Many people will be reluctant to give them a try as
> the first one is 'technically' a deathfic.  All I'd
> say is hang in there and persevere because there's a
> lot of enjoyment to be found in reading these!
>
> Tank is a wonderful writer with a lyrical turn of
> phrase.  This premise could have been a travesty if
> handled by the wrong hands.  Tank was competent - more
> than competent - and turned it into a brilliant
> trilogy.
>
> Irene
>
> =====
> sirenegold@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:25:12 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm in the midst of reading Tank's new one on the archive and came across
this line (it won't spoil anything in isolation):

<<Lucy shrugged. "Well, how about letting the charity be, The
Superman Foundation?">>

This is interesting. As I recall, the Superman Foundation was first
mentioned
in Sandy's S5 ep, Charity Begins at Home. But I've seen it pop up now in
numerous fics as though it's canon.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:38:01 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Marnie Rowe <Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was positive there was mention of the superman foundation in the show,
that was where the proceeds that his agent Murray used to have to give over
th proceeds to... wasn't it?
Marnie
----- Original Message -----
From: "No Name Available" <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Superman Foundation

> I'm in the midst of reading Tank's new one on the archive and came across
> this line (it won't spoil anything in isolation):
>
> <<Lucy shrugged. "Well, how about letting the charity be, The
> Superman Foundation?">>
>
> This is interesting. As I recall, the Superman Foundation was first
mentioned
> in Sandy's S5 ep, Charity Begins at Home. But I've seen it pop up now in
> numerous fics as though it's canon.
>
> --Laurie
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:44:42 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Tank's Future
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I am enthralled with this latest edition to the series, have yet to complete
it, but want to mention a few things:
*
*
*

s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e

*
*
That Dark guy has me scared to death!!  Very good bad guy, Tank.  Love the
Ralph and Scardino references.  And bringing Lana in is a great touch too.
I LOL when Lois called Clark to ask about Dan Scardino, "Clark, Clark, are
you there?"  The characterizations are pretty much dead on for all of them.
You are a terrific storyteller, and I will sing more praises when I am
finished.

Now, the three things that concern me:  (holding my breath and taking the
plunge)

I sometimes have a hard time reading in one more fic what great friends L&C
are with Inspector Henderson.  Seems repetitive.  I guess I read too many
fics?

How much money did Clark make selling the townhouse?....I know when we sold
our townhouse, we had a mortgage and closing costs so that not only did we
not make a profit, we had to "bring money to the table".  So that the profit
was large enough that even a portion of the proceeds paid for a porsche did
not sit quite right with me.   Clark couldn't even have claimed a death
benefit that paid the mortgage, and I would be surprised if they owned it
outright at their age.

Lastly, having lost someone very close to me, and being privy to Lois and
Clark's love to end all love, I am thinking that Clark is not acting as
griefstricken as I would expect after so short a time.  When one is in deep
grief, it can take months and months to regain some semblance of normalcy
and
then years to turn the deep pain
into a buried ache.

Ok, I hope I said that tactfully enough <g>.  Now back to reading....I love
this story.  It absolutely does not suck.

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:06:04 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> So, I guess I will ask you authors, does it matter if the negative
feedback
> comes from non-fic writers?  Would you prefer it to come only from folc's
who
> understand your experience first hand?

Kate, for me the deciding factor would be the quality of the feedback
:)  If you're only writing to say either "It's perfect/It sucks" there's
very little actual information there.  If you say "I think Lois would
have acted differently in that circumstance, and here's why..." then
that's a lot more useful.  Whether you write fic or not :)  I've gotten
quite a lot of insightful comment from non-writers, so I don't have a
prejudice.

PJ
still catching up
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:57:33 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well, I personally have been quiet lately because I've been far too
distracted with Real Life (a depressing topic!).  However, I've seen the
light and fully intend to get caught up with L&Cness again as quickly as
I can <g>

Kathy speculated:
> Kathy (who personally thinks the activity on this list went way down when
> people started being over-sensitive about hearing anything other than
"this
> story is perfect!" at the same time other people were getting over-zealous
in
> their criticism.  Although I don't believe anyone should be rude, I think
we
> went way too far on the "polite" side, and have effectively stifled all
> discussion of stories. Sorry, FoLCs -- "This story is perfect" is boring.
:P)
>

And I have to say I agree.  There have been times (not many) when a
comment on the msg boards has been along the lines of "that was good,
but here's a few areas where you could improve."  On a rare occasion,
things got just a little out of hand (I myself was guilty once), but for
the most part it's all been perfectly civil, and the authors (at least
pretend to) appreciate the help :)  That's exactly the sort of thing
that got out of hand, here, and was subsequently squelched so firmly
that everyone was afraid to say anything.

As to what I expect from this list ... posted fanfic, recommended
fanfic, fanfic questions, fanfic answers <g>, quizzes, discussions, in
general, fun stuff.  No religious/political debates ('cause I know I'll
jump right in <g>), no chain letters, that's all I ask <g>
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 19:35:52 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Another fanfic recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've not been doing much L&C'ing lately, so I'm way behind on this, but
... I just today read Becky Bain's "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and it was
amazing.

Becky, you made me cry (the kiss, near the end).  I *never* cry at
fanfic, and I tend to hate it when stories try to 'tearjerk' me ... but
this story was far above that level.  I appreciated the warning on the
beginning, and I wasn't sure I'd like the story, but I liked Timeless so
much that I thought I'd give it a chance, and I'm glad I did <g>

Great job.

Now if ever I update my recommendations page ;) I'll know what to add!
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:23:30 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Virtual Seasons
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> On a completely different topic... I've just stumbled on this site, which
> provides an index of and links to several 'virtual seasons' of TV
> programmes which are no longer in production:
>
> http://www.pvtonline.com/series/
>
> Eagerly, I checked to see whether Lois and Clark is there. It is... but
> there is only one link, which leads to the Krypton Club's TUFS. Now, TUFS
> was very good, as we all know, but what about Season 5, and more
important,
> Season 6? Perhaps those involved could contact the hosts of this site and
> ask them to add S5/6 to the listing.

I'm aware of this web site, Wendy ... Kathy & I got e-mail from them,
years ago, and didn't quite know what to think of it.  They seemed to
want us to post our stories on *their* site, instead of a link, which
wasn't acceptable.  Maybe we misunderstood.  At any rate, TUFS got there
first.  I have written to the webmaster asking for a link, after I
became the S5/S6 webmaster, but nothing's happened.

Perhaps if lots of people wrote to recommend it <g>
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:33:08 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 08/27/2000 7:36:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Bumpkin@CGOCABLE.NET writes:

<< I was positive there was mention of the superman foundation in the show,
 that was where the proceeds that his agent Murray used to have to give over
 th proceeds to... wasn't it? >>

Murray wanted to be his agent. I don't believe there was mention of a
foundation---only that proceeds went to charity.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:34:57 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Organization: http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam/
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> As I recall, the Superman Foundation was first mentioned
> in Sandy's S5 ep, Charity Begins at Home. But I've seen it pop up now in
> numerous fics as though it's canon.
>

Actually, I think it is canon ... I believe that the show set it up in
"I'm Looking Through You", the one where that guy wanted to be his
agent... not my favorite episode, so I haven't rewatched it in, oh,
years, but that's my theory...
--

Pam Jernigan / ChiefPam / jernigan@bellsouth.net
http://www.geocities.com/~chiefpam
http://personal.rdu.bellsouth.net/~jernigan/

"SF had opened a whole new world to her.  A galaxy, a universe of new
worlds.  While the other little girls had played with Barbie dolls,
Sherrine played with Lummox and Poddy and Arkady and Susan Calvin.
While they went to the malls, she went to Trantor and the Witch World.
While they wondered what Look was in, she wondered about resource
depletion and nuclear war and genetic engineering.  Escape literature,
they called it."
--_Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Michael Flynn
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Laurie said:
>Murray wanted to be his agent. I don't believe there was mention of a
>foundation---only that proceeds went to charity.
>

I have no idea if Superman Foundation was mentioned on the show or not, but
I'm pretty sure it showed up before S5.  Doesn't Dawning refer to a Superman
Foundation?  Or just meetings with Murray about charity?

I can never keep straight what was on the show and what's fan invented,
though.  Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.

Jessi
jessi914@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:11:16 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pat <peabody@MCS.COM>
Subject:      Re: negative feedback (was RE: Slow list? [Long])
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It's the weekend, so I have time to respond to the posts that I've
saved all week :)

Kathy wrote
> >Kathy (who personally thinks the activity on this list went way
down when
> >people started being over-sensitive about hearing anything other
than "this
> >story is perfect!" at the same time other people were getting
over-zealous in
> >their criticism.  Although I don't believe anyone should be rude, I
think we
> >went way too far on the "polite" side, and have effectively stifled
all
> >discussion of stories. Sorry, FoLCs -- "This story is perfect" is
boring. :P)

and Christy agreed
> I agree 100% with Kathy. I ask - beg, sometimes - for negative
feedback every
> time I post a story, but I have rarely gotten it. Usually any
feedback I do
> get is along the line of "nice story." Sometimes I hear about a
spelling or
> similar mistake. I rarely hear something even semi-critical about
anything
> crucial to the story: characters, plot, etc.

You can add my name to that list, too.  I remember two very specific
situations where criticism pretty much created flame wars on the list,
and after the most recent one, an author who only wanted positive
feedback, I understood that negative feedback wasn't allowed on the
list any longer.

Apparently that last was a misunderstanding on my part.  Since then,
I've done very little posting to the list.  Occasionally, I'd send a
word of encouragement to an author, but unless I could give
*completely* positive feedback on a story, I've refrained from saying
anything at all.

There's also a time element involved for me.  I often don't have time
to write a response during the week, so I save the posts I'd like to
respond to until the weekend.  In a lot of cases, the thread has
pretty much died down by then, so I assume that people have lost
interest in it, and consequently, I don't post.

I usually print out the fanfic that appears on this list, and read it
off-line, on the commute to and from work, or over lunch, so giving
feedback isn't an instantaneous process.  Hearing that it's alright to
give constructive criticism or to question a characterization or
motivation makes it a whole different ballgame, though.  I'm more than
willing to scribble some notes on the fanfic, and post them to the
list the next time I get online, if it's likely to lead to a
discussion of the particular story.

I'm really glad that this thread was started.  I've been missing our
discussions on this or that fic, and I'm pleased to learn that it's
still okay to start them :)

Pat

peabody@mcs.com
pattijean@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:01:04 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Becky Bain <rbain@USWEST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Another fanfic recommendation
In-Reply-To:  <39A9A5D8.C09A879B@bellsouth.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 07:35 PM 8/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
>... I just today read Becky Bain's "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and it was
>amazing.

<blushing>  Thanks, Pam.

So now - (in keeping with the current discussion) - was there anything you
think I could have done better?

Becky
rbain@uswest.net

"It is not enough to have a good mind.  The main thing is to use it well."
                                        - Rene' Descartes
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:11:34 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic recomendation (Future series)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Now you all know why Irene is my PR person.  <g>
Actually I'd like to thank anyone who has commented so far.  Your feedback
is
much appreciated.
Regarding the 'Superman Foundation', I don't remember if they ever mentioned
the charity set-up that Murray was supposed to work the profits of Superman
licensing into but the idea has been used enough through out fan fiction and
it's a logical step that I just went with it.  Truth to tell I never even
questioned, in my mind, whether or not it was ever mentioned on the series.

s
p
o
l
i
e
r

s
p
a
c
e

Many people have asked me about the real estate deal I made.  I admit that
I'm no expert but I did research the prices of Porsches, and found you could
get a nice low end one for under 40 thousand.   My logic for the brownstone
was such:  east coast real estate which means it's much much higher than we
in the mid west would know.  I have friends in New York and a simple
apartment there can run over a thousand dollars a month.  So I figured that
a
venerable brownstone with at least two bed rooms nice woodwork and in great
shape could be worth anywhere from 300 to 400 thousand.  Now I allowed Lois
and Clark to get it cheaper since it was previously owned by a felon and
crimes were committed there.  I also assumed that Clark is the kind who
would
have been saving up for his own 'home'.  Both Lois and Clark were well paid
professionals and probably were able to put down a significant down payment
and make significant monthly payments.
Given all that after the fact figuring, I did presuppose that Clark would
have been able to show a significant profit from the sale even if they have
only been living there two to four years  (no time frame was given in the
story was there?).  Given my logic, even if it is actually faulty, I still
think Clark would be able to give Lois enough to buy her Porsche.  Besides,
do you think Lois would actually pay full sticker for anything?

Also regarding the grieving process.  There  is a definite camp who would
say
that Clark would never get over Lois.  That idea wouldn't work for the
story.
 I did allow Clark months of solitude to try to work through it, and
remember
he was having these unexplanable feelings for altLois.  It was a tightrope
walk to try and balance all those emotions in a reasonable manner and still
be able to bring things to the conclusion I desired.  Whether I succeeded
only you, the gentle reader, can tell.

Thanks all for your comments and support.

Tank
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:41:18 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Slow list? [Long]

I'd like to thank everyone who's replied so far to my rather long whine
about why I wasn't getting enough list posts <g> and sent it off into such
interesting spin-off threads as well. It's been great to see the return of
some recent lurkers (welcome back, Pam, Dana, Pat _at al_, we've missed
you!).

Most of all, I'm delighted to know that I'm not the only one who misses our
discussions, friendly arguments, and the other lively activities which used
to go on here. There have been some reasons suggested as to why this is so
(such as the issues surrounding critical feedback); Tank also made the
excellent point that this list is what we make it. If we want to discuss
things, we need to come up with things to discuss, and contribute to the
discussion! Now, I can't believe that, with new fans joining all the time,
we've run out of things to discuss concerning the characters,
motivation, 'what-if' scenarios and so on... so it's up to us.

I have a topic I'd like to put up for discussion, but I'll do it in another
post.

Thanks again for replying and reminding me why I love being on this list!

Wendy

-----------------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:31:38 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Recommendation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> I'd like to recommend Tank Wilson's Future series, the
> last part of which arrived at the archives today.
>
> Tank has taken an upsetting premise, a devastating
> tragedy, and emotional upheaval and has combined them
> to create a wonderful series of stories.
>
> Many people will be reluctant to give them a try as
> the first one is 'technically' a deathfic.  All I'd
> say is hang in there and persevere because there's a
> lot of enjoyment to be found in reading these!
>
> Tank is a wonderful writer with a lyrical turn of
> phrase.  This premise could have been a travesty if
> handled by the wrong hands.  Tank was competent - more
> than competent - and turned it into a brilliant
> trilogy.
>
> Irene
>
> =====
> sirenegold@yahoo.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/

I second/third/fourth...etc that recommendation!

Elisabeth and I were riveted the entire time reading it and pulling our
hair out at the same time.  It is much better to read something like this
all at once instead of in posts of indetermineant frequency.  (Yes, I have
the gall to say that considering my own work in progress is stalled right
now. :(  )

James

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:39:25 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Hey Tara - was:( Fic Feedback both Positive and Negative)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hey, Tara!  Long time no here from.  I was wondering if Nan had sent you
off to boot camp or something.  Missed you on the boards and the list.  I
really have missed your FDK on 7DOS.

Welcome back.

James, who misses all 10 of his loyal readers. :(

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:40:27 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         JaT <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

It actually comes from the comics.
James
--- No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I'm in the midst of reading Tank's new one on the archive and came
> across
> this line (it won't spoil anything in isolation):
>
> <<Lucy shrugged. "Well, how about letting the charity be, The
> Superman Foundation?">>
>
> This is interesting. As I recall, the Superman Foundation was first
> mentioned
> in Sandy's S5 ep, Charity Begins at Home. But I've seen it pop up now in
> numerous fics as though it's canon.
>
> --Laurie

=====
The D8As - AIM id is mrd8astl
Matthew 23:37-39, Romans 1:19-32, 2 Chronicles 7:13-14

Work in progress: Seven Days of Superman-Table of contents can be found at
http://www.zoomway.com/boards/ubbhtml/Forum5/HTML/003005.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:52:42 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Virtual Seasons

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:23:30 -0400, Pam Jernigan <jernigan@BELLSOUTH.NET>
wrote:

>I'm aware of this web site, Wendy ... Kathy & I got e-mail from them,
>years ago, and didn't quite know what to think of it.  They seemed to
>want us to post our stories on *their* site, instead of a link, which
>wasn't acceptable.  Maybe we misunderstood.

I'm glad you remember it this way, too, Pam.  I am positive that they wanted
to rerun our stories on a weekly basis, and I just felt that they wanted to
take over too much control for me to be comfortable -- for example, they
wanted to recreate the HTML files on their site, refusing to link to our
already existing copy.  That felt wrong to me.

As for misunderstanding, I don't think we did -- I think they've evolved and
have changed their methods.  And I'm glad they did; the site looks great.  I
did notice that when you go to the TUFS episodes, it takes you to the TUFS
site, not a recreated one within the PVT universe. So good for them.

> At any rate, TUFS got there
>first.  I have written to the webmaster asking for a link, after I
>became the S5/S6 webmaster, but nothing's happened.
>
>Perhaps if lots of people wrote to recommend it <g>

Maybe they felt we were being a bit too suspicious and decided to diss us. <
g>  But I would be curious to see if anyone gets a response.

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:56:29 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation

On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT, Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
 Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
>show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
>Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
>screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.

OK, this is when we need Zoom. <g>  Maybe if I send her a copy of this post,
she'll be able to answer. <g>

Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:08:38 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 8/28/00 7:56:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
kathybrown91@HOME.COM writes:

<< Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
 >show?   >>

Didn't Lois use that phrase in Virtually Destroyed when opening up the bed
discussion and how they were going to save money and could go anywhere for
their honeymoon?

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:15:11 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I remember "Superman Express" was mentioned in the show.  One such time was
on
"Swear To God" when Clark told Lois her parents would be coming to the
wedding
"Superman Express".

As for Inspector Henderson, he appeared a few times in the first season.
Three
appearances I can remember were in "All Shook Up" when Lois arrives at the
police station to find Clark without his memory, "Witness", and "The
Foundling".  there may have been others.

Nan

Kathy Brown wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT, Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:
>  Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
> >show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
> >Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
> >screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.
>
> OK, this is when we need Zoom. <g>  Maybe if I send her a copy of this
post,
> she'll be able to answer. <g>
>
> Kathy
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:10:47 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Reynolds, Raymond H." <REYNORA@MAIL.NORTHGRUM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Slow List
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I hope it's not too late to chime in here but I just came across this
wonderful discussion after being away this weekend.

Not being a writer, I know that for the most part I still enjoyed reading
the discussions about characters and plots and grammar, etc. I, as some of
you know, rarely send my comments on stories to this list. I feel they are
my personal communication between myself and the author and would be
inappropriate for this list. For the most part I also rarely comment on
stories in progress but I try to comment on the completed story as soon as I
can after completing it or I usually fail to comment at all. I have been
finding myself checking the message boards for stories more often than on
this list, in a lot of cases I've already seen the segment being posted on
the message board already so there is no need to look at it again.

I always found that the stories posted on this list seemed to be in a more
completed state than the ones I'm finding on the message boards. I found the
stories posted here had usually been beta read before being posted and most,
if not all, typos and spelling errors had been fixed as well as the grammar
being in reasonable shape. In contrast to that, the stories on the message
boards are in a lot of cases rather raw. Numerous spelling errors that any
decent spell check would catch, misuses of were and where and other such
errors abound. It sometimes makes it very hard to read the story because I
keep getting pulled out by the errors. I don't know if authors on the
message boards will ever post here after completing their story there and
making any suggested corrections but I think it would be a good idea to do
so as a final shake down cruise before sending it off to the archive.

With regards to feedback from the message boards, I try to ignore the
feedback folders on the boards for stories I'm reading in serial or for
those I haven't read yet because of the spoiler effect, but with few
exceptions a lot of the feedback is of the "liked this part, post more"
variety. I guess the authors do get something from that, at least they know
people are reading the story, but it seems like a complete waste of time and
storage space on the board to add another "me too" type post. Even the
feedback that is posted that gives good constructive criticism can only be
done once, when someone gets there before me with all of the points I wanted
to make there really is no need for me to repeat everything that has been
said in a previous post. At least with private feedback the only one who
knows for sure if the feedback is getting redundant is the author and that
says something in itself.

The recent exchange between a reader (sorry I forgot your name) and Tank
over his last installment in his "Future" series is a good example of what
everyone seems to be looking for with regards to feedback on the list. That
reader put forth her questions on plot points she had trouble with and Tank
responded with his reasoning in one case and his reason for compressing
Clark's grief in the other case. The exchange was handled with tact and
consideration on the part of both parties and served to enlighten everyone
without hurting anyone's feelings. I hope to see more exchanges like this in
the future.

This note has turned out a lot longer than I originally intended, I'm
usually a lurker here, but as with a lot of other members I too was
compelled to write. I guess that is what we need more of, thought provoking
questions like Wendy's, to get us all talking more. I'd hate to see this
list go away as well. I enjoy it too much to want that to happen.

Ray
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:29:55 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Why write?

In the last couple of years it seems to me, at least, that there has been
an explosion in fanfic. Now, I can understand that to a degree: there are
no new episodes of Lois and Clark, so if we want more adventures for our
heroes, we have to create our own.

But what I do find surprising is the sheer number of new authors bursting
onto the scene. Dia very helpfully listed all those eligible for the Best
New Author Kerth earlier this year, and there were 57. *57* people who
wrote an L&C fanfic for the first time in 1999!! Now, a number of those
people wrote one story, perhaps two, and weren't heard from again; many
others have become some of our fandom's most popular writers: people like
Irene Dutchak, Tank Wilson and Chris Carr, for example.

And this year it's happening again, and again many of the new writers are
producing stories which certainly make me sit up and stare. We've seen
excellent work from Rose Cookson, Ann McBride (so just why did it take you
so long to start, Ann? <g>), and over on the boards, new writers like
ShayneT and Traceylynn, whose stories 'Dear Lois' and 'A Love Well Worth
The Wait' I strongly recommend. Some of us are beta-reading a story by
Helene (Kaethel) which we hope will be out by the end of the year, and
which is simply breathtaking.

So... leaving aside the question of how it is that our new authors are just
so *good,* what I want to know is what motivates new authors to write. I
mean, here's a TV programme which has been off the air, apart from repeats,
for three years. Most people, aside from the fandom, will have forgotten
about it and moved on to the next new show. So what gave you the incentive
to start writing? Had you written in other fandoms and decided to try your
hand here? Or was this your first introduction to fanfic writing, or indeed
any fiction-writing?

And another question. We have 1400 stories on the fanfic archive, and more
in development over on the message boards. Now, there's always a new angle,
as we know, <g> but do you have difficulty coming up with story ideas?
There are hundreds of revelation stories already, dozens of alt-universe
ones, plenty of next-gen stories, lots of episode rewrites, heaven knows
how many falling-in-love ones... does the possibility that your idea might
have been done before bother you, or do you just write it anyway? (I'm not
making a judgement here; I'm simply curious).

Hoping for some interesting responses!

Wendy

------------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:33:37 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Vicki Krell <Vicki.Krell@ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Another fanfic recommendation
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Pam said:
I've not been doing much L&C'ing lately, so I'm way behind on this, but
... I just today read Becky Bain's "Ad Astra Per Aspera" and it was
amazing.

Becky, you made me cry (the kiss, near the end).  I *never* cry at
fanfic, and I tend to hate it when stories try to 'tearjerk' me ... but
this story was far above that level.  I appreciated the warning on the
beginning, and I wasn't sure I'd like the story, but I liked Timeless so
much that I thought I'd give it a chance, and I'm glad I did <g>

Great job.

Now if ever I update my recommendations page ;) I'll know what to add!
--

Pam, I'm amazed that you said almost the identical thing to Becky about
crying at this fanfic when you rarely or never do, since I wrote Becky
privately last week and said just that! I too thought this was an
intelligent, unusual, well-written story which included humor, angst and
serious topics, and wonderful new characters, as well as excellent
characterizations of old (no pun intended!) favorites.  I was reluctant to
read this story at first, but I also loved Timeless, so I decided to give it
a shot, and was thrilled with it, even if my co-worker did come into my
office just as I was reading the last paragraph, and gave me an odd look
when he noticed my red eyes and sniffling! <g>

I've been finding the comments about the lack of traffic on this list
interesting (even though I'm just getting to them now) because I've found
that while I have more of a tendency to lurk on this list, I post feedback
quite frequently on the MB's. I'm not quite sure why that is. But I have
also noticed that I am more inclined to give feedback when I receive
feedback to MY feedback (did everyone follow that?? :)). I have written
several responses to fanfic, giving examples for my opinions, only to have
them go completely unacknowledged, which I've found rather frustrating.

I like seeing fanfic posted here on this list, as well as on Zoom's MB's.
And if the posts with discussion topics get to be too huge, well, I can read
the ones I'm interested in and delete the rest. I'll also try to post
feedback here about archive stories if I can. :)

Vicki

Vicki Krell
Sponsored Projects Officer
Office of Research and Creative Activities
Arizona State University
(480) 965-2171
(480) 965-1703 - fax
Vicki.Krell@asu.edu

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: Another fanfic recommendation</TITLE>
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Pam said:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I've not been doing much L&amp;C'ing lately, so I'm =
way behind on this, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>... I just today read Becky Bain's &quot;Ad Astra =
Per Aspera&quot; and it was</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>amazing.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Becky, you made me cry (the kiss, near the =
end).&nbsp; I *never* cry at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>fanfic, and I tend to hate it when stories try to =
'tearjerk' me ... but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>this story was far above that level.&nbsp; I =
appreciated the warning on the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>beginning, and I wasn't sure I'd like the story, but =
I liked Timeless so</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>much that I thought I'd give it a chance, and I'm =
glad I did &lt;g&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Great job.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Now if ever I update my recommendations page ;) I'll =
know what to add!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>--</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Pam, I'm amazed that you said almost the identical =
thing to Becky about crying at this fanfic when you rarely or never do, =
since I wrote Becky privately last week and said just that! I too =
thought this was an intelligent, unusual, well-written story which =
included humor, angst and serious topics, and wonderful new characters, =
as well as excellent characterizations of old (no pun intended!) =
favorites.&nbsp; I was reluctant to read this story at first, but I =
also loved Timeless, so I decided to give it a shot, and was thrilled =
with it, even if my co-worker did come into my office just as I was =
reading the last paragraph, and gave me an odd look when he noticed my =
red eyes and sniffling! &lt;g&gt;</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I've been finding the comments about the lack of =
traffic on this list interesting (even though I'm just getting to them =
now) because I've found that while I have more of a tendency to lurk on =
this list, I post feedback quite frequently on the MB's. I'm not quite =
sure why that is. But I have also noticed that I am more inclined to =
give feedback when I receive feedback to MY feedback (did everyone =
follow that?? :)). I have written several responses to fanfic, giving =
examples for my opinions, only to have them go completely =
unacknowledged, which I've found rather frustrating. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I like seeing fanfic posted here on this list, as =
well as on Zoom's MB's. And if the posts with discussion topics get to =
be too huge, well, I can read the ones I'm interested in and delete the =
rest. I'll also try to post feedback here about archive stories if I =
can. :)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki Krell</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sponsored Projects Officer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Office of Research and Creative Activities</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Arizona State University</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-2171</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(480) 965-1703 - fax</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vicki.Krell@asu.edu</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

</BODY>
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:44:15 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: NEW FIC: To Face the Day (1/1)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Juli, are you ever going to send this to the Archive?  This is too good not
to put it
where others will see it.

Nan Smith

Juli Hale wrote:

> Title: To Face the Day
> Part:   1/1
> Author: Juli Hale
> Rating: PG-13
> Feedback: Public comments & editing welcome.
> Summary: Lois and Clark face a man from her past, and uncover long-kept
> secrets in the process.
>
> To Face the Day
>
> Prologue
>
>         Life was good. As the lovely brunette leaned back in her chair and
> breathed in the smell of printer's ink, she glanced over at her adoring
> husband, who was working intently on some background information for a
> story they were getting ready to sink their teeth into. The realization
> that he could finish all that work in a matter of seconds if he so chose
> brought a smile to her face, and proved again how deeply Clark Kent
enjoyed
> his life as a journalist. His activity as Superman sometimes overshadowed
> the dedication he had to his work, but Lois knew that the Daily Planet was
> as much a part of him as it was of her.
>
>         Yes, and the Planet was a major part of her life. Before Clark, it
had
> been her whole life. In the past few years, she had found a balance
between
> the thrill of the newsroom and the peaceful solid personal life that she
> shared with Clark. Lois Lane was not just a journalist anymore-she was a
> whole person.
>
>         And even thought she didn't yet know it, it would take every bit
of the
> strength she had gained to face the days ahead.
>
> ***
>
>         Perry's voice resounding through the newsroom gained everyone's
attention.
> He was waving slips of paper in the air as he began his announcement. "As
> you all know, Harvey Samuels just retired from his position on the Board
of
> Directors. Now, he was always a staunch supporter of us down here in the
> bull pen, and we'll miss him, but it was his time to enjoy a little of
that
> life he put aside to be newsman. Anyway, the Board is meeting this week to
> appoint a new member, and to vote on officers for the upcoming fiscal
> year." Perry paused to look seriously at Lois and Clark, while still
> addressing the whole assembly, "I don't have to tell you people how a
> change in the suits upstairs effects this whole paper." Lois and Clark
> looked at each other, remembering full well how personnel changes had
> effected them in the past-Lex Luthor, Franklin Stern, Leslie Luckaby...
>
>         Perry continued, "Now this is not a change in ownership, but past
> experience tells us that we do need to be prepared for anything that might
> happen. I have tickets here for a formal la-dee-da in the Banquet Hall of
> Lexor Towers-Thursday night, 7:00. It would be in your best interests, if
> you get my drift, to attend and to show your support for the new board
> member. It never hurts to play the game. And look sharp!" With that, he
> gave the tickets to Jimmy to hand out and marched back into his office,
> slamming the door behind him.
>
>         Jimmy handed the tickets to Clark for him and Lois, "Man, CK,
Perry seems
> a little out-of-whack over this whole deal, don't ya think?"
>
>         Lois interrupted, "Well, Jimmy, every change we've had, with the
exception
> of Franklin Stern, has been nothing less than a nightmare." Clark nodded
> thoughtfully as she continued, "I'll guess we'll just all have to wait
> until Friday to see what happens. Am I the only one who thinks it's odd
> that they're going to all the trouble of giving this mystery person a
> formal reception? Whoever it is, he or she must think they're hot stuff."
>
> ***
>         On Thursday evening, the night of what Perry called "the big
shindig,"
> Lois walked down the stairs of their brownstone slowly, enjoying the look
> of admiration on her husband's face. She was wearing an ankle-length black
> dress with a four upper mid-thigh slits, accentuating her long, slender
> legs. Her hair was swept away from her face in a very simple style, with a
> few stray tendrils shaping her face. The hairstyle and the
> spaghetti-strapped dress drew attention to her graceful neck and milky
> white shoulders. She needed no jewelry.
>
>         "Honey, you look absolutely perfect."
>
>         "You don't look so bad yourself, flyboy." She flashed him that
smile that
> never failed to make his super-powered heart skip a beat.
>
>         The look in her husband's eyes told Lois that they had better
leave now if
> they intended to make the reception at all, much less if they were to be
on
> time. While their colleagues were quite accustomed to Lois and Clark's
> tendency to lose themselves in each other, both doubted that a late
arrival
> would be the best first impression to make on the new board member. Not to
> mention that seeing Perry's disapproving glare was not high on their list
> of things to do immediately before their impending deaths.
>
> ***
>         Lois and Clark arrived just in time to walk into the banquet hall
with
> Perry, Alice, Jimmy, and Penny. Not failing to notice the satisfied, if
not
> surprised, once over Perry gave them, Lois remarked indignantly, "What,
you
> doubted we'd make it here?"
>
>         Jimmy laughed, "We knew you'd be here, but we had bets on how
> 'fashionably' late you'd be." Seeing Lois' stone glare, he quickly
> qualified, "Uh, well...see, we know that you always are working on
stories,
> and sometimes you get these leads that, well, uh..."
>
>         Clark chuckled, "Okay, Jimmy, just stop while you're ahead." He
motioned
> towards a table and pulled a seat out for Lois.
>
>         The group recognized many familiar faces around them, and Perry
seemed to
> be quite satisfied with the turnout. Perry felt he and Alice should go
> mingle with the 'suits,' but everyone knew that he was anxious to meet the
> newcomer and be assured that the mission statement of his paper was not
> going to be changed. The Daily Planet was not going to become some two-bit
> rag just to raise subscriptions.
>
>         For the next half-hour or so, the two younger couples engaged in
idle
> chit-chat, enjoying the time they were spending away from the office. Both
> Lois and Clark were happy to see the maturing effect that his relationship
> with Penny was having on Jimmy. They agreed that they would have to spend
> more time together outside of work, now that they could do so safely away
> from mosh pits and abandoned subways.
>
>         Finally, their attention was called to the platform in the center
of the
> banquet hall. They noted both Franklin Stern and Perry standing near the
> podium. Stern had reacquired the Planet shortly after the demise of Lex
> Luthor, Jr. In fact, in light of his criminal activity, all of Luthor's
> holdings had been first offered to their previous owners. It was Stern who
> was about to begin a speech. "Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to have
> your attention, please. I am honored to present to you this evening the
> newest member of the Planet's Board of Directors, a man who earlier today
> was also voted in as CEO of Operations. Because of his outstanding
> credentials in the field of Journalism and his vision of excellancy for
the
> Planet's future, we are proud to have Peter Alistair join our team.
Without
> further ado... Peter Alistair."
>
>         Perry began the round of applause that quickly spread around the
room,
> reaching everyone but Lois, who had paled when she heard the name,
gasping,
> "No. It couldn't be."
>
> Clark paused his applause and glanced quickly at his wife, confused by her
> reaction, "Honey, what's wrong? Are you okay?"
>
> He continued to watch her in concern as Alistair entered the banquet hall
> and began his address. "Fellow Journalists. It is an honor to become a
part
> of a world-class paper such as the Daily Planet. It has long been a dream
> of mine..."
>
> Clark repeated, whispering, "Honey, what's the matter?"
>
> At a loss for words, and not willing to try to explain, "Uh, I have a
> headache. Do you think we could get out of here?"
>
> Voicing the reason for their exit quietly to Jimmy, they silently slipped
> out of the banquet hall and made their way towards Hyperion Avenue.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:53:23 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: NEW FIC: To Face the Day (1/1)

Nan, Juli has submitted 'To Face The Day' to the Archive. It was edited
last week, so I'd guess it'll be uploaded some time in the next few weeks.

Wendy

-----------------
Wendy Richards
wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:54:48 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: NEW FIC: To Face the Day (1/1)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

That's great.  It's been so long, I was afraid she'd forgotten.

Nan

Wendy Richards wrote:

> Nan, Juli has submitted 'To Face The Day' to the Archive. It was edited
> last week, so I'd guess it'll be uploaded some time in the next few weeks.
>
> Wendy
>
> -----------------
> Wendy Richards
> wendy@kingsmeadowcr.freeserve.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:29:38 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: Define 'flame'
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I asked for a definition of the commonly used term 'to flame'.

Kathy, you said:
> But I think the point you were trying to make is that one person's flame
is
> another person's "rude comment" is another person's "discussion".  Some
> people will always have thinner skins than others.  This is true in real
life
> as well as on-line.
>

Actually, I wasn't trying to make a point; it was a genuine request for
clarification.  For example, I read posts on the message boards where
someone complains that they've been 'flamed', when all I see is a lively
discussion.  However, you've made the point which makes me realise why I
was confused, so thanks <g>.  I still think people use the term rather
loosely, but then communication through the written word is never an exact
science, so who am I to complain? ;)

> On-line, at least, we have list moms who get to have the final say. <bg>
>

And very good list moms they are too <g>.

Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:58:33 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You can tell Wendy's on sabbatical, can't you? <bg>

I can't answer the new author question, being too long in the tooth these
days <g>.  However, I'll take a crack at answering the ideas question.

Do I have difficulty coming up with story ideas?  I always think I'm going
to run dry of ideas, but somehow, usually towards the end of writing one
story, something else pops into my head and I'm sucked in again.  What
*can* be difficult is fleshing out an idea into a story worth writing,
because sometimes my ideas are single scenes, or even just a style of
writing.  For example, right now, I've got this urge to write a story in
the first person, entirely from Clark's POV, and possibly as a
retrospective, but I haven't yet come up with anything original enough to
elevate it beyond yet another rehash of the familiar story we all know.

And that, I suppose answers your question about originality, Wendy.  Yes, I
prefer to write a story which has at least one new element in it that
no-one else has explored before.  It might not be a very significant thing,
but if I just write a story which is an amalgam of lots of other stories,
then I'd feel as though I was merely plagarising instead of creating.

A question you didn't ask was whether or not authors worry about repeating
themselves.  You, for example, have written one or two <g> revelations, and
have a particular fondness for exploring L&C's relationship pre-revelation.
 Do you worry that you're repeating yourself?  BTW, I can tell you most
emphatically that you're not, because you manage to find infinite variety
within those scenarios, and you also write outside those subject areas -
but how do you view it?  And how do other authors feel about their own
stories?

Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:29:15 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Fanfic question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Does anyone know of any fanfics that changed the ending of the 3 ep
A-a-a-rgh and rewrote the extended 2 eps?  In a long ago post, Kathy talked
about what was supposed to be the original ending and I think she mentioned
some fanfic that had taken off from there.  Anybody know?  Thanks.  Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:37:57 -0500
Reply-To:     bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "B. B. Medos" <bbmedos@BOOKSANCTUARY.COM>
Subject:      fun snippets & vignettes

With regards to being motivated to write and post fanfiction, one of the
biggest problems I've had recently isn't lack of interest but frustration
over not being able to post what I am working on. I mean, finding personal
time to write IS a problem but that's only a small portion of the larger
dilemma I find myself in related to fanfiction. It dawned on me a couple of
weeks ago that I'd begun to view writing this stuff as major work instead
of the play it should be. Why? Primarily because I've got so many
stories-in-progress that I'd like to complete that it has become very hard
work whenever I do sit down to deal with it all. I mean, I'm still
interested in completing those WIP, but the fun of doing so is fast fading
away. Know what I mean?

Out of desperation, I finally gave myself permission to simply write out of
sequence on whatever strikes my mood at any one time and now I find myself
with quite a few disconnected snippets. Some of them, I do plan to include
in existing stories and some are simply ideas in development and some are
just for the heck of "what if" that have absolutely no relation to anything
I'm already working on. They're so disconnected, in fact, that I haven't
even felt right about showing them to my editors because they wouldn't make
sense. Yet, the strange thing is that a couple of them have the makings of
rather cute little vignettes that if posted with slight modifications
wouldn't give anything away about what I "might" use them for in the
future.

So, here's are some questions. Anyone else feeling the same type of
pressure that every story idea has to become a major project? Not to
mention, dealing with the feeling that any new idea has probably already
been played with before, so what's the point? Does anyone else also long
for the time when they'd watch an episode and a "what if" idea would pop
into their head and off they'd go with a scenario and no thought of where
it was going? And, finally, what about posting these types of snippets and
vignettes to the list, just for the "fun" of seeing peoples reactions to
them?

Beverly :-) bbmedos@booksanctuary.com
Beverly's Book Sanctuary http://www.booksanctuary.com
Check out the changes beginning with Bev's Notebook!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:05:07 +0200
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kaethel <kaethel@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey all!

Wendy asked what motivates new authors to write... I think it's exactly the
same as what has pushed more experienced fanfic writers to start, actually.
Okay, the show has been cancelled for more than three years now, but it
comes down to the same: sometimes, it's just a small vignette that puts Lois
and Clark (or the rest of the cast) in a particular situation, just to see
how it goes, other times it's a longer story to explore the characters in
their depth, or a theme that a family TV show didn't allow on prime time:
more drama, more angst (I can see you smile at that, Wendy... yes, I really
do love angst <bg>), and so on.

And the writing format allows you something that the TV format couldn't
give: you can write about the character's thoughts in long introspection
parts, analyse their motives and their reactions. With fanfic, you're able
to enter their mind, and you're not watching them passively. You can
intervene to put them in such or such a situation (although many times the
characters seem to have a mind of their own and don't want to obey <bg>).

What attracts me so much to fanfic writing is also that it offers so much
potential that the show didn't allow: you can rewrite the revelation the way
you'd like it to have happened, you can take a scene and change a detail
that sends you on a totally different route from the one taken by the actual
show, you can make a completely different beginning, or alter the
characters' life in a way that makes you explore a new theme. The only
barrier is that you have to respect the basis given by the show to stay in
character, but it isn't much of a restraint, because it doesn't prevent you
from giving your own interpretation of the characters. Fanfic, I think, is a
real space of freedom.

Wendy, you also asked how new authors came to fanfic writing. Well, for me,
it was with Lois & Clark. I hadn't written anything of the sort before. Oh,
there had been the odd story when I was 16; and, just before I became a
FoLC, a - luckily aborted - attempt at an awful sequel to a TV show I was
watching (but I wouldn't consider that as writing, really <g>). Actually, I
started writing fanfic about two months after having started to read other
FoLCs' work: reading stories like 'Heaven's Prisoners' by Demi, 'Meet me in
Kansas City' by Chris Mulder, or the 'Dawning' series by Debby Stark, made
me so enthusiastic about the possibilities that fanfic offered that I wanted
to try my hand at it.

Starting with a long story was probably my mistake, because it was too much
too soon, and I don't think I was able to handle a complex plot (not that
I'm any more able right now <g>). So I wrote several vignettes, with no real
intention to post, until I accepted to share them with a few online friends,
who encouraged me to post one of my short stories a few months back, and to
continue to work on my other fanfics in progress.

As for story ideas, well, I don't think it's such a problem. There are
always unexplored possibilities, IMHO, and simply watching an episode can
make you wince at something you'd have done otherwise, and there starts a
rewrite ;) I know, falling-in-love stories, for example, are very numerous.
I've always been a sucker for those, and I've probably read most of the ones
available on the archive. But I really think you can rewrite about it
thousands of times, and always bring something that hasn't been said before.
You just need a new situation, a new context, *anything* that alters the
characters in a way that will make them react differently.

Helene :) (who should really shorten her posts before she bores you all with
her rants <g>)
kaethel@club-internet.fr
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:40:28 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: fun snippets & vignettes
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Beverly wrote:

.>Anyone else feeling the same type of
> pressure that every story idea has to become a major project?

-----Yes.  And add to that my fear that the story is so involved that I'm
not sure I can pull it off, so the ideas rattle around my brain and I write
long scenes in  my head in the middle of night when I can't sleep and have
other obligations that keep me from writing them in the morning.  (Okay, so
Lois isn't the only one who babbles)

> Out of desperation, I finally gave myself permission to simply write out
of
> sequence on whatever strikes my mood at any one time

You have described my normal writing style.  I seem to have to write out of
sequence, getting down crucial scenes that are essential elements to the
story, and then writing what leads up to them.  In The Circle Game, I wrote
the first 4 sequences, then the ending and I wrote backwards from there to
the middle.

Becky Bain wrote:

>I stand in awe of those who post as they write... I could =never= do that,
because too many things that happen late in a story end up changing things
that happened earlier!  Tweak, tweak, tweak... story of my life.  <g>

-----Yep, that's me too.  As LabRat can attest, I'm still making changes
even when my editor says the story is ready to go to the Archive.  This is
what comes of being an obsessive compulsive insecure perfectionist.<g> How I
envy writers who can send it off and let it go. No peace, no peace.  Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:51:45 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Dennis Arendt <d.arendt@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject:      Re: Superman Foundation
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I remember SM express also used in Swear to God.......
And Henderson was in All Shook Up and the episodes where Clark's apt. was
robbed---name is not coming to me at the moment.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathy Brown <kathybrown91@HOME.COM>
To: <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Superman Foundation

> On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:44:29 CDT, Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:
>  Was the phrase 'flying Superman Express' ever mentioned on the
> >show?  Was anything ever LAN'd to Perry's office?  And just how often was
> >Inspector Henderson actually on?  I can barely remember seeing him on
> >screen, but he shows up constantly in fanfic.
>
> OK, this is when we need Zoom. <g>  Maybe if I send her a copy of this
post,
> she'll be able to answer. <g>
>
> Kathy
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:36:43 -0600
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Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Grammar Question
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I know some of you said you hated these grammar questions on list, but I'm
sorry, I can't help it.  <g>

When do you capitalize 'university'?  I'm thinking that it wouldn't be
capitalized if you were generalizing:  a university, which university...,
etc.
But if it has 'the' in front of it (i.e. corruption in the university...),
then it would be capitalized, right?

If anyone can help me out with this, I'd appreciate it.  :)

Erin  :)
__________________
erink@ida.net
Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
             *****
"It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
__________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:02:16 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Nancy Smith <deimos1@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Grammar Question
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I would capitalize it if it were a specifically named one, Erin, like
"Indiana
University" or "Empire State University", or something, but not just for a
generalized one, such as "the university".

Nan

Erin Klingler wrote:

> I know some of you said you hated these grammar questions on list, but I'm
> sorry, I can't help it.  <g>
>
> When do you capitalize 'university'?  I'm thinking that it wouldn't be
> capitalized if you were generalizing:  a university, which university...,
etc.
> But if it has 'the' in front of it (i.e. corruption in the university...),
> then it would be capitalized, right?
>
> If anyone can help me out with this, I'd appreciate it.  :)
>
> Erin  :)
> __________________
> erink@ida.net
> Visit my LNC/Kerth Website:  www.ida.net/users/davek
>              *****
> "It's not the years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they
happen."
> __________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:04:46 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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In a message dated 8/28/00 11:30:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
wendy@KINGSMEADOWCR.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes:

<< And this year it's happening again, and again many of the new writers are
 producing stories which certainly make me sit up and stare. We've seen
 excellent work from Rose Cookson, Ann McBride (so just why did it take you
 so long to start, Ann? <g>),

So... leaving aside the question of how it is that our new authors are just
 so *good,* what I want to know is what motivates new authors to write.>>

Blush*   It took me so long to start for a number of reasons.  One, I didn't
even start watching Lois and Clark until May, 1998.  I  was only vaguely
aware that it existed when it first came out in '93 and never once turned it
on.  I don't watch much television, and its timeslot in 1993 put it squarely
in the middle of getting the children ready for bed time.   But in May,
1998,
my two adolescent sons discovered it on TNT and were quite taken by Teri
Hatcher.  They kept telling me I'd like the show, so I finally watched it.
It was somewhere in the third or fourth season when I first saw it, and I
fell for the relationship between Lois and Clark immediately.

I'm much more of a reader than a television viewer, so at some point during
the summer of 1998, I started looking on the Internet to see if there were
any novels based on the show, such as there are for Star Trek.  Of course, I
did find the truly mediocre Cherryh novel.  What I did find, by accident,
was
fanfiction.  I had had no idea that such a thing existed.  I read
voraciously
all summer.  Over the course of the last two years, I have managed to kill
two printers by printing fanfics to read off-screen.

It never occurred to me though, to try to write a story of my own.  I hadn't
written creatively since junior high school ( way back in the sixties ) and
didn't have any ideas.  My first, and to this point only completed, story
was
inspired by Irene's "The Spying Game," this summer.  Something in her first
installment gave me the idea to write a vignette where Clark decides to date
Lois as Superman to show her that it's a terrible idea, hoping she will then
turn to Clark.  *That* is what I set out to do.  I figured maybe 6 pages.
As
those of you who have read "Triangle" know, the story took on a life of its
own, and the next thing I knew it was about 60 pages.  As Helene said,
sometimes those characters just refuse to cooperate.

As for the sequel that I'm currently writing and posting on the mbs, Wendy
deserves the credit for that.  One night on IRC she suggested that I think
of
an issue that I would like to explore, given the situation I had created in
"Triangle" and go from there.   I'd have to say that getting the initial
idea
is a challenge for me.  Once I have that, it's a lot easier to write.  I do
find that the characters tend to go off on tangents I never imagined.  It's
pretty weird.  <G>

So that is why I started writing.  Why did I do it again?  It was fun to do
something so different from what I've done for the last 35 years.  And then
there is the feedback.
When you get positive feedback from someone whose own writing you admire,
it's fantastic.  When you get feedback from anyone, it's fantastic.  So, I
would have to say to all the lurkers, if you really like a story that you
read, tell the author.  They will really appreciate it.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:38:08 -0400
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         kubitc <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Grammar Question
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Erin, I woud capitalize university if it was standing in and could be
exchanged for the name of the full name of the university. For example,
capitalize it in "He attended Princeton, but he hasn't been back to the
grounds of the University lately" but don't capitalize in "My cousin wants
to
attend university next year." The first designates a specific university;
the
second is general.

Christy

>I would capitalize it if it were a specifically named one, Erin, like
"Indiana
>University" or "Empire State University", or something, but not just for a
>generalized one, such as "the university".
>
>Nan
>
>Erin Klingler wrote:
>
>> I know some of you said you hated these grammar questions on list, but
I'm
>> sorry, I can't help it.  <g>
>>
>> When do you capitalize 'university'?  I'm thinking that it wouldn't be
>> capitalized if you were generalizing:  a university, which university...,
etc.
>> But if it has 'the' in front of it (i.e. corruption in the
university...),
>> then it would be capitalized, right?
>>
>> If anyone can help me out with this, I'd appreciate it.  :)
>>
>> Erin  :)

"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free."
-Michaelangelo
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:42:26 +0100
Reply-To:     "yconnell@ukf.net" <yconnell@ukf.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         yconnell <yconnell@UKF.NET>
Subject:      Re: fun snippets & vignettes
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> You have described my normal writing style.  I seem to have to write out
of
> sequence, getting down crucial scenes that are essential elements to the
> story, and then writing what leads up to them.  In The Circle Game, I
wrote
> the first 4 sequences, then the ending and I wrote backwards from there
to
> the middle.
>

Interesting.  I used to write in disjointed chunks - or rather, if I was
getting stuck somewhere, I'd just skip on to another part where I knew
exactly what I wanted to put down - but these days I write almost
exclusively linearly (is that a word?).  This makes for tough work, because
if you're stuck, you've just got to beat your head against a brick wall
until the words start flowing again.  Then you tweak and tweak and tweak,
and then 3 days later, you've got one paragraph <g>.  However, the
advantage is (some of my readers might say the disadvantage!) that you can
wander where you please, because you don't have two scenes waiting up ahead
to join up with.

To answer another question: no, I don't feel as though every idea I have
has to become a full-blown project.  I'll jot it down and leave it to
simmer while I'm concentrating on the main project in hand.  Very
occasionally, I'll start developing one of these ideas while I'm writing
another story, but that usually only happens near the end of a project, or
when I'm really bored with it <g>.

Yvonne
(yconnell@ukf.net)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:23:13 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Marilyn L. Puett" <no1supermom@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: fun snippets & vignettes

You wrote:  And, finally, what about posting these types of snippets and
vignettes to the list, just for the "fun" of seeing peoples reactions to
them?

I think it would be lots of fun.  And that's really what those silly
revelations were.  I took one that I posted and turned it into a full-
length story mostly due to the encouragement and feedback I got from the
readers.

SuperMom
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:24:55 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      A Future Restored
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Thanks, Tank, for your response to my questions.  I am back, having stayed
up
late last night, and waking up at dawn to finish this story.
*
*
*
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
*
*
*
(that is such a pain to do <g>)

I have been thinking all day about this fic, and how fulfilling the ending
was.  I could not understand how I would ever be able to reconcile myself to
Clark and alt. Lois making a life together and being in love.  I wasn't
ready
to accept that Clark was sufficiently through the grieving process to know
what he was doing.  But the way you ended it Tank, even though I am still
pondering the metaphysicalness of it, made me think, "ok, surprisingly, that
feels right."  I knew you wouldn't have H. G.  suddenly send everyone back
in
time to correct everything, that would have been too easy and actually, an
irritating way to end it.

I was surprised that Ralph was the only familiar victim....even though we
all
would have wished for a similar ending for that annoying person.  I expected
Superman to come upon a group of fried folk.

Interesting too, that you made Lana Lang, who we all love to hate, such a
sympathetic character. And how funny to pair her with Agent, call me Daniel,
Scardino.

So, did you always despise Jimmy Olsen and secretly want to pound him to a
pulp?

All in all, many unexpected plot twists.
Very satisfying story, many thanks Tank.
Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:39:44 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Tank Wilson <TankW1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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It's Wendy's fault.  But I'll get back to that later.

I used to write back in high school.  My buddy and I were big fans of
Alister
McLean novels, so we wrote our own spy stories.  It was almost like a
competition.  We'd basically write them chapter by chapter and show them to
each other.  We were always characters in each other's stories and would use
other people we knew  (like the really cool girl you sat behind in math but
had no time for you).  Literally there would be wars of 'You rat, wait till
you see what happens to you in my next chapter!' .  It was fun to get each
other's reactions.

The above example shows the main reason I wrote then and I write now,
feedback on my ideas and writing.  I made a half hearted effort to write
some
sci-fi short stories for some of the pulp magazines back many years ago but
it was a pathetic effort.  I was writing in a vacuum and I had no
inspiration
or encouragement to keep writing so I gave it up.

A few years back I discovered the Lois and Clark archives.  I was currently
experiencing a rebirth of my enjoyment of the series with the TNT reruns, so
the archives was like manna from heaven.  The thing that struck me, besides
the fact that there were all these stories out there, was that here was an
AUDIENCE for these stories.  Not only were there all these great stories,
but
it seemed that there was a large audience reading them.  This was truly
cemented in my mind when I discovered Zoom's message boards.

I was fairly new to the boards when Wendy issued what she called her 30
minute challenge stories.  I thought that maybe here was a way to try my
hand
at writing again without too much investment on my part, and who knows,
maybe
someone would comment that they actually enjoyed it.  I tried it and got
good
feedback, which clinched the deal.

I need to backtrack a little here.  Early on in my dabbling on Zoom's board
I
took the chance and wrote Wendy a personal email.  I had some story ideas
(and one in particular) that I had wanted to see fleshed out as a story and
I
thought Wendy's terrific style would very much suit this idea that I had.
She refused my idea just because she had about 40 wip of her own she was
working on.  She forced me to later write it myself.

For me the reason I started was because I thought Zoom's board would provide
me with a ready to read audience, and Wendy's challenges gave me the
vehicle.
 So as you can see, it's Wendy's fault that I have been inflicting myself on
the gentle readers for the last year or so.  (Zoom can take some blame too)

Sorry for the long rant (again), but like my characters, sometimes things
just take off.

Tank (who won't even get into the topic of story idea's here)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:11:21 -0700
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From:         Judith Williams <judithwilliams@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject:      Re: fun snippets & vignettes
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Yvonne wrote:
>but these days I write almost
> exclusively linearly (is that a word?).  This makes for tough work,
because
> if you're stuck, you've just got to beat your head against a brick wall
> until the words start flowing again.  Then you tweak and tweak and tweak,
> and then 3 days later, you've got one paragraph <g>.  However, the
> advantage is (some of my readers might say the disadvantage!) that you can
> wander where you please, because you don't have two scenes waiting up
ahead
> to join up with.

-----If 'linearly' isn't a word it ought to be, (my spellchecker seems to
think it is) but you can take credit for coining it.. When I write short
things I do write linearly, but for a long story, I find I have to know
where I'm going even though it means bouncing back and forth to be sure the
end  still makes sense with what goes in the middle.

Ann wrote:

> I do
find that the characters tend to go off on tangents I never imagined.  It's
pretty weird.  <G>

-----Yes those pesky characters tend to do that.  The Circle Game turned out
to be an entirely different story than the one I thought I was going to
write.  So I think you can get to where you're going in different ways.  I
suppose it's just a personality thing.  I'm a very linear person when I
write expository material, but  not when I write fiction.

Jude
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:15:25 -0700
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From:         "Irene D." <sirenegold@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wendy asked:

> So... leaving aside the question of how it is that
> our new authors are just
> so *good,* what I want to know is what motivates new
> authors to write. I
> mean, here's a TV programme which has been off the
> air, apart from repeats,
> for three years. Most people, aside from the fandom,
> will have forgotten
> about it and moved on to the next new show. So what
> gave you the incentive
> to start writing? Had you written in other fandoms
> and decided to try your
> hand here? Or was this your first introduction to
> fanfic writing, or indeed
> any fiction-writing?

I'll take a crack at answering some of these
questions, Wendy.

I never even thought of writing anything until I
discovered the fanfic archive.  I was so impressed by
it.  I think there were apr. 800 stories in it at the
time - it might have been more - and they were all
about my favourite TV show of all time.

I used to write short stories and (bad) poetry when I
was a lot younger, but I hadn't done any creative
writing for literally decades.  I still haven't
figured out why exactly I started, but I am sure that
I would never have thought of even trying if I hadn't
had the example of others to follow.
>
> And another question. We have 1400 stories on the
> fanfic archive, and more
> in development over on the message boards. Now,
> there's always a new angle,
> as we know, <g> but do you have difficulty coming up
> with story ideas?
> There are hundreds of revelation stories already,
> dozens of alt-universe
> ones, plenty of next-gen stories, lots of episode
> rewrites, heaven knows
> how many falling-in-love ones... does the
> possibility that your idea might
> have been done before bother you, or do you just
> write it anyway? (I'm not
> making a judgement here; I'm simply curious).

I always think that I'm going to have trouble with
story ideas, but then they just seem to come to me.
Remember, it happened while you were here visiting,
Wendy.  I told you that I'd had a dream and literally
woke up with a story 90% plotted in my dream, complete
with scenes and dialogue and villians.  That will
probably be my next project after my current story.

I do judge my story ideas.  If I feel that someone
else has done it better, I won't tackle the story line
unless I feel that my idea is sufficiently different.
I have trouble seeing other possibilities if someone
has done a definitive job of rewriting an episode.

On a different note, one thing that I was absolutely
not prepared for was having people like my stories and
actually ask me for more.  I couldn't believe it!
When I got such a great response for Firestorm, I
literally giggled for about a week and a half - in a
state of shock the whole time.  This has had the
interesting result of making me want to write more and
more, and to try my hand at mainstream fiction also.
I have now entered two short story contests - non LNC
of course - and am working on two novels on my own, a
young teen's novel in collaboration with my daughter,
as well as still writing fanfics.  It's wonderful.
When I get blocked on one, I move to the next.

I always said when I was a kid that I wanted to be a
writer.  The desire had been buried deep for a long
time and I seriously doubt that I would have tried
writing anything if it weren't for the wonderful
support and friendship offered by this fandom.
>
>
> Hoping for some interesting responses!

I don't know if I was interesting, but I was
definitely long! :)

Thanks for such a great question, Wendy.

Irene

=====
sirenegold@yahoo.com

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Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:23:26 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Bethy Em <jextra42@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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Wendy asked about new author motivation, so I thought I'd give my view.  I
found the TUFS site first, then found the archive (can't remember how) and
was thrilled at the amount of fanfic out there.  And the quality, wow!  I
have always preferred reading to TV, so to have the characters I loved in
written form was incredible!  (In case anyone cares, I think prose can go
into more depth of emotion, plus it doesn't have the same special effect /
time limits that the show does).

I had written some short stories, but wasn't really satisfied with my
results.  So, at first with L&C, I had vague ideas about writing, but it was
one of those, "Oh, someday I'll do it" thoughts with the inner knowledge
that I'd never *really* get around to it.  Then, I read one story,
"Doubtedly True" by LoisLane30.  Lois gets pregnant (after Dr. Klein's
bombshell in The Family Hour) and Clark decides she must have had an affair
(which, of course, she hadn't).  I thought the way the author wrote Clark's
reaction didn't mesh with what I expected from him, and so my mind started
thinking, 'what if...?'  That led me to writing my first fanfic, "A Love As
True," which I posted on Zoom's message boards.

I got some really *great* feedback (both 'positive' and 'negative,' but in
my view, constructive criticism is a positive thing, so I don't like to call
it negative.  To me, negative feedback is the rude 'this sucks' with no
explanation.  But anyway, I digress).  I am in the process of re-working
that story now, and then will post it here.  That feedback is what has kept
me eager to write, and I don't think I would have had as much fun if it
weren't a part of the process.

So, now that you've heard all the boring details... :-þ  That's how I was
bitten with the L&C writing bug, and now every time I turn around, I have
another idea.  So, slowly, but surely, I'm building now adventures.

Wendy also asked:  "Does the possibility that your idea might have been done
before bother you, or do you just write it anyway? (I'm not making a
judgement here; I'm simply curious)."  Personally, I like the cliche, "There
are no new stories, only new angles."  Part of the fun (at least for me) of
fanfic is seeing different people's takes on the same idea.  The diversity
in ideas and writing styles makes each story unique in itself, and most of
the time the repetition of the main idea doesn't matter to me.  When
writing, however, I'm a little wary of my ability to do an idea justice,
especially if I've already read a wonderful one along the same vein.  So,
like Yvonne wrote, I would like to have some new aspect, or new combination
of aspects in my stories.

Well, as this monologue is getting long, I'll sign off.  ;-þ

Bethy

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Date:         Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:24:05 EDT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why write?
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In a message dated 08/28/2000 8:16:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sirenegold@YAHOO.COM writes:

<< This has had the
 interesting result of making me want to write more and
 more, >>

Oh, I am so happy to hear this. :)

--Laurie (Irene's #1 fan)