From:  "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
To:    "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil"
File:  "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L
LOG9903A"

=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:00:10 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Always keep your bowler on in times of stress and watch out
for
              diabolical masterminds." <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: partners

I hope I'm not repeating anything that has already been said, but my e-mail
program is acting up- I'm often getting replies as far as a week before
receiving the actual message! Some of this is going off what's posted on the
archive.

<< Maybe, she just changed her mind? It has been known! <g> Most of the =
fanfic which use Lois Lane Kent that I've read are set some years in the =
future, or at least several months after the wedding. Can't recall that =
I've read any sooner than that. >>

I know I have read stories where Lois uses Kent, either alone or with Lane,
that are not set at least several months after the wedding. I can't come up
with any titles off the top of my head (which doesn't bode very well for my
case, I know), but I'm sure they're out there.

<< I don't think its outwith the realms of possibility that by then, Lois
would
have resolved a lot of her initial insecurities, remaining Lois Lane at the
office and on her byline - which is entirely sensible after all and for the
reasons she cites = herself - but becoming secure enough to add on the Kent
in
her personal = life. >>

I don't see why Lois is insecure about herself because she doesn't want to
change her last name. She likes "Lois Lane" (and, I'll admit, so do I- I
like
the alliteration ;). So does Clark. Why change?

<< At least, it always seems to me her objections in IASWAA are based =
more on last minute wedding nerves (among others - witness her babble in =
TAG,D for one) than on any real feminist principles. >>

She says she can't understand why women have to do all the changing-
changing
their names, then their bodies, when getting married then later when having
children. She doesn't cry "feminism" but she doesn't need to use the word to
get across the message that she doesn't understand why women have to change
when they get married.

<< I can see her = growing to like married life enough that she would mellow
on
the = subject.=20 >>

Maybe it's just a fundamental misunderstanding, but I don't understand why
she
should mellow on the subject. I never had any doubt (once she and Clark
started
dating) that Lois would like being married to Clark. I don't think she had
that
particular doubt either. (Though she had to work through some issues, as did
Clark, as does anyone who's married.) Changing your last name isn't a
mandatory
part of married life, even though it is tradition. But, heck, tradition
isn't
necessarily a good thing; for years, according to tradition and lots of
other
bunk, women didn't vote. Thank heavens that's one tradition that's changed
<g>

I should probably also say that I don't think there's anything inherently
*wrong* with changing your last name when you get married. But I also don't
think there's anything inherently right about it either. It's a choice and I
don't see any indication that Lois might change her mind later. I also don't
think it's any kind of disservice to any children Lois and Clark would have
for
Lois to keep her last name. I know plenty of people whose mothers kept their
last names and I don't think they're emotionally scarred.

<< Personally, I don't see much wrong with letting colleagues and
acquaintances
know that you are = married. In fact, as you point out, it seems just a
little
cruel not to! =I'd say that in a situation such as you describe the
occasional
faux pas = is unavoidable! Even if you are determined to keep your personal
and
= business lives completely separate, the *knowledge* of your married =
status
isn't the problem per se. So long as you *act* professionally = (having
taken
that decision personally I mean. If you are into PDA = that's fine too! <g>)
then you achieve the effect you want, surely? >>

I was an adament supporter of keeping your personal and professional lives
separate, but I have to clarify myself, I think, after hearing Rachel's
story.
I don't think there's anything wrong with your colleagues knowing that
you're
married. I think this is especially appropriate if your colleagues are also
people you socialize with. However, an example of a situatio where I'd have
a
problem is if a source comes to the Planet to be interviewed and (s)he'd
only
spoken to Lois previously. If Lois were to introduce Clark as her husband
instead of her working partner, I think that would be inappropriate. The
source
will not interact with Lois or Clark in a social situation, so there should
be
no chance for the kind of faux pas that could happen with friend/colleagues.
Just MHO.

-Christy
 kubitc@kenyon.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Feb 1999 21:28:14 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Rachel Ernst <dithyramb1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lane vs. Kent was re: partners
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi FoLCs

Here's my bit of input about Lois changing her name after marrying
Clark --

Having both Lois and Clark take the name Lane Kent is the coolest idea
I've heard in a long time!!

I'll admit, I'm a wee thing, just 19, so I have no marriage plans for
a while (not to mention I have not met my Mr. Wonderful yet!  Know any
young, mild-mannered, available Supermen?!).  At this point, I don't
know whether or not I'll keep my last name when I get married (does
"Rachel Wonderful" sound un-professional?).  I can totally understand
why some women, especially accomplished professionals like Lois, would
feel attached to their name.  However, I'm also looking forward to
marriage as a great bond between a man and a woman.  I personally
think that having the same last name is, in a way, symbolic of the
union.  For these conflicting reasons, I really don't know what I'll
personally do when the big "M-word" comes for me.

Here's a story that I think is really cool -- there are two married
professors at my college.  When they got married, they decided that
neither one should take the name of the other, so they invented their
own last name!  Isn't that cool?!  I think it is really special to
have that new beginning -- a marriage -- symbolized by a  new name for
both the man and the woman.

Anyway, this is why I think it is awesome for Clark to be called Clark
Lane Kent (and Lois would be LoisLK, too).  I'm not a fanfic writer
(just a very satisfied reader!), but if I were, you can bet I'd
consider having my version of Lois and Clark share each other's last
names.  I think that Clark would agree to the new name -- He's the
type of guy who would want his wife to have her individuality, but
would also want to share the family name with her.  He's traditional,
yet understanding of Lois's independence.

So, now you know the Sheriff Rachel version of the debate.

Until next time, I remain...
        Rachello

_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:27:58 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Melissa Day Hall <mhall@SOUND.NET>
Subject:      Re: Location?
In-Reply-To:  <l03130303b2ffcc001c16@[208.169.34.133]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>At 8:06 PM -0600 2/28/99, Melissa Day Hall wrote:
>> New Troy is an island in the middle of Metropolis,
>>much like Manhattan. Metropolis has six boroughs, New Troy, Queensland
>>Park, Bakerline, Park Ridge, St. Martin's Island and Hells' Gate.
>
>Great summary, Misha. I'll have to hold onto this one. Just the other day,
>I was  trying to come up with where a character in  my fanfic might be
>"from" (Kingston is one neighborhood we used in S5/6, but you need variety.
>;))

You want more? <g>

Besides the sections of New Troy, all the other boroughs have parts: Hell's
Gate holds Tealboro and Senre Ville, Uptown and East Side are on St.
Martin's Island, Newtown, Mount Royal, Pelham, North Bridge (on the south
side of town)and The Old City are in Queensland Park, Vernon and Racine are
in Park Ridge, and Bakerline holds Lafayette, Hamstead and Oaktown.

I've got this lovely map of Metropolis, but not a scanner in sight. <sigh>

Misha (mhall@sound.net)
- - - - -
"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost;
that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them."
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 01:54:22 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Nethra Ankam <nsa105@PSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and Haircuts and End of DJ and 4th season
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kathy wrote:
>When it finally came off, the new haircut wasn't all that much
>different from the old one, IMO.  And no mention was made of it on the
show.

I distinctly remember after TPvLL, the next ep (whatever it was) Jimmy
saying to Lois "Nice Haircut" and her replying something like (can't
remember exact wording) "After having my face plastered all over as a
wanted felon, I thought a change would be nice"

re: Pam's scene "answer"

Loved it! If that and your Forget Me Not, redux had been filmed, I would
have been a very happy camper! But I do think Clark was in shock that she
would even pick Lex over him, and thus couldn't move and just stood there.

re: Not liking 4th season as much

I don't know why, but I didn't like it as much either.  I know towards the
end, it was the overwhelming sense of dread I would feel everytime I
watched an ep...almost couldn't watch because I knew it was going to be
cancelled.  I still have a hard time watching the end of season four on TNT
because I remember all the stuff going on at the time. (wish I had a
vcr...can't tape the eps...wahhh!)

And the NK arc just wasn't that suspensful for me because I knew Dean Cain
was coming back, so Clark was coming back.  If I had empathized with the
NKers I might have liked it more.  And Swear to God... just left a bad
taste in my mouth (except for the end! loved the end!) BACALAC I actually
kinda liked...STP I would have liked better if Lois had saved
Clark...Brutal Youth I loved...but there was no over-all arc to the
stories...I loved the second half of second season because each ep was
building on L&C's romance and the 1st half of third season was building to
their engagement.  And then there was no focus/goal in their relationship
after Tempus, Anyone? (Loved Tempus, Anyone?)  I liked the beginning of the
arghhh, but then they lost me after the Deter thing.  Was starting to like
it again...and then NK happened...and then I guess I just thought the
writers didn't write a married couple very well at first...then I started
to get into the eps, really get into the eps, again--and then I was afraid
the series would be canceled (and it didn't help that at the time I was
trying to decide what college to go to...couldn't think about that at
all...any quiet moment was obessed with L&C...finally did get around to
making a decision though :).

Don't get me wrong...I love L&C...and I kept watching!  But somehow, I
didn't enjoy the  4th season as much as previous seasons...I loved the 8
o'clock Sunday timeslot...and it not being there was upsetting to.  I had a
routine...work on homework and then watch and then work on homework while
dreamily thinking of L&C and then go to sleep dreaming of L&C and then go
in to school the next day dreamily thinking of L&C...made Mondays so much
better.

Hope it's coherent!  It's late...decided to take a break from
studying...test tommorrow!  And it's a TV test--it's going to be hard
though, have heard from people.  (I'm taking a TV class...all the
terminology that was flying around during the time the FoLC were trying to
save the show made me intrigued) Actually my professor said he knew one of
the Assistant Directors of L&C, so said he got to see one of the first
screenings of the pilot.  I thought that was cool!  Trimble did say that
his friend said Teri and Dean had really big egos and that L&C was a set
full of tension...which I don't like to think about, so I'm not!

back to studying...

Nethra
who thinks the fanfic list discussions are amazing...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:34:49 CST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Stefanie D Slifer <cute6@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and haircuts

 Joshua wrote:
>
>>At the beginning of the 4th season I think Teri wore a wig.  During
>>the summer I saw her on Oprah and she had very VERY short red
>>hair.

Kathy replied:

>This is exactly right, Josh.  Since LOTF/BE follow almost directly from
>BGDF, they put Teri in a wig for the first several episodes, until her
own
>hair grew out a bit.

While we're on this subject, does anyone know where I can find a picture
or screen capture of Teri in the wig?  I'm in the minority that actually
thought the wig was cute, and I'm thinking of styling my hair like that.

Also, where can I find a picture of Farah Forke (Mayson Drake)?

If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would really appreciate
it.

Thanks!

Hugs,
Stefanie =)   cute6@juno.com
"I suppose now is the time for me to say something profound.
...Nothing comes to mind. Let's do it." --Col. O'Neill, SG-1
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:46:23 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Supergirl Kent <supergirl_kent@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

Yeah... I've heard - or in this case, read ;)- of that rumours. Is it
true?! Are they shooting it now?

----Original Message Follows----
From:         Carms Calvag <MSRFOLC007@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
To:           LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

Wasn't there some rumors going on that Nicholas Cage was going to do a
Superman movie? He is to be Clark and Sandra Bullock was going to be
Lois.

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:55:46 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Supergirl Kent <supergirl_kent@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

Well, I'm not the person who usually write in here, too. But I kind of
agree with Anne. I mean, Nicholas Cage is the thriller type [I hope you
know what I mean?]. CK is strong but 'soft'... ARGH! I don't know how to
explain it [:Þ] but the thing I want to say is, I don't think Nicholas
suits the character. But again, just an opinion. :)

P/S: I know this might be a dumb question but what's IMHO?

~Farah~

----Original Message Follows----
From:         Anne Simmonds <asimmonds@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
To:           LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU

You Wrote:

>Wasn't there some rumors going on that Nicholas Cage was going to do a
Superman movie? He is to be Clark and Sandra Bullock was going to be
Lois.

****
I don't normally write I just enjoy reading the discussions, but is
there anyone out there that agrees with me that Nicholas Cage wouldn't
make a good Superman. He is just to rugged and scruffy. His face anyway.
I just don't think that he would be right for the part.

In The old series you had George Reeves, Who had a smooth and clean cut
face with a good Jaw line, as well as with Christopher Reeve.  Dean Cain
was a perfect addition to the many Supermans.  But all this is just
IMHO.. I hope I didn't offend anyone?!

Back to just reading........... :)

Annobelle

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:29:15 -0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         LabRat <labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and haircuts
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Kathy wrote:

>They never claimed that Lois cut her hair after the first few episodes =
of
>4th season though.  The only time they ever made anything of a haircut =
for
>her was in Contact, early 3rd season, when she cut it short after =
having
>the medium length bob for the first 2 years.
>
>If I remember correctly, Teri wore the 4th season wig until about =
episode 8
>or so.  It was quite a while, and we were all anxious to have her real =
hair
>back. When it finally came off, the new haircut wasn't all that much
>different from the old one, IMO.  And no mention was made of it on the =
show.
>

Not surprised you didn't notice the mention, Kathy - if you're as much =
of a fan (not <g>) as I am of BOB & CAROL (I'm so little a fan that I =
can never remember the proper title, let alone the acronym. :D And even =
though, as always, it has loads of moments that redeem it, which make me =
laugh or I enjoy for the waffiness, it's still the episode I watch most =
rarely) . But a big thing is made of her new haircut at the start of =
this episode, when Jimmy's new girlfriend decides its cool and Lois says =
that she cut it short after seeing herself on the wanted posters. <g>

LabRat :)
Doc. Klein's LabRat
labrat@dircon.co.uk.

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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kathy wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR>&gt;They never claimed that Lois cut her hair after the first =
few=20
episodes of<BR>&gt;4th season though.&nbsp; The only time they ever made =

anything of a haircut for<BR>&gt;her was in Contact, early 3rd season, =
when she=20
cut it short after having<BR>&gt;the medium length bob for the first 2=20
years.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If I remember correctly, Teri wore the 4th season =
wig=20
until about episode 8<BR>&gt;or so.&nbsp; It was quite a while, and we =
were all=20
anxious to have her real hair<BR>&gt;back. When it finally came off, the =
new=20
haircut wasn't all that much<BR>&gt;different from the old one, =
IMO.&nbsp; And=20
no mention was made of it on the show.<BR>&gt;<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Not surprised you =
didn't notice the=20
mention, Kathy - if you're as much of a fan (not &lt;g&gt;) as I am of =
BOB &amp;=20
CAROL (I'm so little a fan that I can never remember the proper title, =
let alone=20
the acronym. :D And even though, as always, it has loads of moments that =
redeem=20
it, which make me laugh or I enjoy for the waffiness, it's still the =
episode I=20
watch most rarely) . But a big thing is made of her new haircut at the =
start of=20
this episode, when Jimmy's new girlfriend decides its cool and Lois says =
that=20
she cut it short after seeing herself on the wanted posters.=20
&lt;g&gt;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>LabRat =
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Doc. Klein's =
LabRat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:labrat@dircon.co.uk">labrat@dircon.co.uk</A>.</FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 05:48:15 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) --Quite Long
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In a message dated 2/28/99 10:25:55 AM Central Standard Time,
gremlino@PATHWAY.NET writes:

<< Lois crying in the
 premiere when she and Clark are tied in the warehouse, and Lois crying in
 the ep "Lois and Clarks" when she's talking to the alternate Clark about
her
 missing husband.  The first was played for laughs--we can tell Lois isn't
really crying--and the second is played for--what?--cries?  <g> Evokes a
totally different feeling.  >>

Not sure why Lois missing her husband should be played for laughs.  It's one
of my favorite scenes from any season though.  It showed how deeply she
loved
and missed Clark. In that sense, unlike Lois' "death bed" tear-fests of old,
it was totally open and honest, and thankfully not played for humor.

>>>And then there's the scene in "Twas the Night Before Mxymas" where Lois
moans to Clark that she won't be able to like Christmas as much as he wants
her to.  It could have been funny, but somehow it was pathetic instead.<<<

Lois comparing the "Seven deadly sins" to the "Twelve Gifts of Christmas"
was
not only funny to me, but *so* Lois <g>

>>>>One
*big* thing I noticed was the difference in the way Lois looks at Clark
during the fourth season and how she had looked at him during the first 2
seasons.  The starry-eyed glances she gave to first Superman, and then
Clark, in the first eps are in sharp contrast to the way she looked at him
(them?) during the later eps.  The old zing just wasn't there any more.<<<

I'm going to have to get my eyes checked (I'm tired of them being plaid ;) I
never saw so many adoring and sweet exchanges between Lois and Clark as I
did
the final two seasons.  However, as the old saying goes, one .JPG is worth a
large .TXT file ... er, well, one picture is worth a thousand words ;)  To
that end, I put up a temporary website with some of my favorite screen
captures from 3rd and 4th season.  I should say non-kissing screen captures
<g> I chose them because they seem to best illustrate the positive feelings
of
love Lois and Clark shared -- joy, contentment, happiness, playfulness and
good, old fashioned bliss ;)  I didn't put up the kissing pictures because I
wanted this to be mostly facial expressions.  Though the topmost picture
almost qualifies as a kissing picture, but the two of them are smiling too
much to actually "pucker" ;)

You're right that Lois did give Superman lots of adoring "starry-eyed"
looks,
but often they were of the "in awe" variety, as if she finally met a god
from
Mount Olympus face to face.  There was almost a "worship" quality in her
expression.  With time, Superman came a bit closer to the Earth for her, and
she began to treat him like a person. In conjunction with this, her
friendship
with Clark grew, and by the end of second season, she was in love with him.

It would be very easy to end things here, at this point.  Lois didn't know
the
truth and so nothing terribly solid or honest could grow from that, it would
be frozen in time as a great imitation romance. The kind of romance a naive
young girl might cook up in her unicorn bestrewn bedroom as her rainbow sun-
catchers clack against the windowpane. The most serious threat to the
romance
being Clark's *secret* leading to unexplained "vanishing acts".  A brief
intrusion by third parties in the persons of Mayson Drake and Dan Scardino
to
stir things up, and once they're summarily dealt with, the road is clear. Of
course they can't go far down that road because the *truth* is missing, but
if
it all remains a little girl's dream, she wouldn't go far down that road
anyway.

Me? I'll hit the road, thanks, even with the stop signs, yield signs,
roadblocks and detours (or Deters ;) Lois and Clark did hit a lot of
potholes
on their way to a happy romance and marriage, but it would be hard to take a
romance seriously or realistically if the couple never faced a more
difficult
dilemma than burgundy versus deep violet  When Lois was almost squished by
the
falling flag pole, she noticed that Clark's reaction was different from
before, that he was more urgent. Clark simply replied, "Things are
*different*
now."  He was right. Lois knew the secret, they were in love, and she was
considering his proposal of marriage, all while she was trying to get to
know
Clark for *all* he truly was.

Lois and Clark were both "babes in the woods" in that neither of them had a
clue as to how to make a relationship work.  Some of my best memories from
the
series involved Lois and Clark trying to figure it all out and make it work,
and because their situation was so unique, they didn't exactly have a guide
to
go by. What they learned was the truth, and the truth is a relationship and
marriage take a *lot* of work, compromise, disagreements, forgiving,
sharing,
crying, comforting, and most of all, never giving up no matter how tough it
gets. It's still amazing to me that a fantasy show about a guy who can fly,
cook dinner with his eyesight and wears his underpants on the outside could
have such a realistic grasp of what a relationship from strangers to
marriage
is all about.

I've put the URL for the screen captures below.  I think it will be more
liked
by those who enjoyed 3rd and 4th seaosn as much as I did, but anyone's
welcome
to take a looksee ;)

http://www.actwd.com/zoomway/worlds.htm

This other site is where I put up some Lois and Clark music videos made by
some extraordinarily talented FoLC.

http://www.acreativetouch.simplenet.com/zoomway/avi/LnC_music_videos.htm

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 04:12:04 -0700
Reply-To:     desertrat@uswest.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Desert Rat <desertrat@USWEST.NET>
Organization: DRCS
Subject:      Need some help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 I have a story that is almost ready for publication, but I would be
greatful if someone would be willing to act as editor before I put it
out for general reading.
If anyone is interested in helping out, please e-mail me at :
desertrat@uswest.net
Thanks,
Rat

--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:24:24 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic Kansas-related question
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:45 PM 2/28/99 -0600, Melissa Day Hall wrote:
>>Can anyone tell me who in Kansas/Missouri can legitimately perform a
>>wedding ceremony?  (Justice of the Peace, Minister, Judge, Lawyer, Elvis
>>impersonator, whatever?)

I think some Kansan needs to check this out.  Next door in Colorado, the
only thing required for a marriage to be legal is to buy the license and
sign it in front of the people at the county clerk's office (at least, that
was the case 5 years ago).  So, theoretically, *any*one could perform a
wedding ceremony since it's the signing of the license before witnesses that
makes the marriage legal, not any particular ceremony by any particular
person.

Sheila Harper
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:25:16 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) --Quite Long
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I think I have figured out part of why the fourth season is so depressing to
some of us ( other than the obvious like the constant victimization of Lois
and Clark and the messing around by the network).  Part of it is that the
colors are depressing.  If you look at Lois's clothes, in the first three
seasons she wears pink, red, orange, beige and blue a lot.  In the fourth
season, it seeems that she wears little but grey and brown.  Even if the
idea
that colors photographed differently than planned is true, then the
producers
or someone should have noticed and found other clothes or film or something.
The whole visual tone is depressing.  Just think of the awful outfits she
wore
in SL&V.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:36:55 +0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Pam's DJ ending
In-Reply-To:  <199902282313_MC2-6C32-E896@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

Hey Pam,

Having just re-watched DJ and Seconds yesterday, your little scene
(followed by FMN, R) would have been just perfect!!

Why, oh why, did the scriptwriters make such a mess of the
characterisations over these five episodes? Why did the actors let
them get away with it? Why was Clark turned into such a wimp? And WHY
was there no proper resolution of all of this?

Wendy
(whose brain has ever since been churning out dialogue for a
pre-IASWAL fanfic which would 'close' the AAARRGHHHH properly - why
hasn't someone invented software to transfer thoughts directly from
the brain to the computer screen without the need for me to find time
to sit down at the keyboard and type it!!)
----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:53:47 +0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Spelling [was Re: Information Please]
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.19990228132223.007f3100@mail.capitalnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:22:23 -0500 Margaret Brignell
<brignell@CAPITALNET.COM> wrote:

> At 10:13 AM 2/28/1999 -0700, Debby wrote:
> >I agree. Margaret Brignell assumes the world of Metropolis uses UK
> >spellings :)
>
> Assume?!  I'll have you know they *do* use the British spelling-- it's
> right there in the City's bylaws.  Really!  Doesn't anybody around here
> read the bylaws?  Sheesh!

LOL!! Right on, Margaret! As my General Editors are well aware, I
also follow this 'bylaw', which leads to some interesting
discussions, such as when i have to make my dislike of 'gotten'
clear!

Wendy
----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:34:58 +0900
Reply-To:     lizo@ozemail.com.au
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Liz O <lizo@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: Looking for a fanfic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi all!

I am looking for a fic set in the alt. universe. I can't remember all of
it but Clark/Superman is writing novels as "Clark Lane" when Lois comes
back from the Congo. She creates a new identity for Clark as her husband
"Clark Lane" who is blind.

Anyone able to tell me the name or author?

Thanks.

Liz
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:19:14 +0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Language
In-Reply-To:  <19990228024115.9108.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I seem to be posting a lot today... Pam's great little Lucky Leon
vignette made me think of an additional difference.

To us on this side of the Atlantic, a shop is where we buy things
(Americans refer to it as a store? To us, a store is where things are
kept - stored!). And if our cars need to be repaired, we'd take them
to a garage! Yes, I  know a garage is also a building attached to a
house where a car is parked overnight, but who says language has to
be consistent?

That's all for now - I think!

Wendy

----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:41:00 +0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Superman Lives Shelved - (was:Superman Snippet)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.1.32.19990226214437.01685528@pop.ozemail.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:44:37 +1100 Jenny Stosser
<jenerator@OZEMAIL.COM.AU> wrote:

> >"So, I guess you can all let your collective breath out, because
> >SUPERMAN LIVES, for now, ain't flyin' nowhere."

Well I, for one, and very glad that is confirmed - I couldn't stand
the thought of Nicholas Cage as Clark Kent  (yuck...eeewwww!!!) and I
wouldn't even have been able to sit through trailers, let alone see
the film. As for what I had read about the script... well, let's say
it's just as well it's not happening.

I'd rather read fanfic any day!

Wendy
----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:40:42 -0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Zing! (Was Non-Saint Lois)
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>gremlino@PATHWAY.NET wrote:
>
><< Lois crying in the
> premiere when she and Clark are tied in the warehouse, and Lois crying =
in
> the ep "Lois and Clarks" when she's talking to the alternate Clark =
about her
> missing husband.  The first was played for laughs--we can tell Lois =
isn't
>really crying--and the second is played for--what?--cries?  <g> Evokes =
a
>totally different feeling.  >>

And Zoomway answered:
>
>Not sure why Lois missing her husband should be played for laughs.  =
It's one
>of my favorite scenes from any season though.  It showed how deeply she =
loved
>and missed Clark. In that sense, unlike Lois' "death bed" tear-fests of =
old,
>it was totally open and honest, and thankfully not played for humor.

Thankfully is right! And, not to dispute in any way that the warehouse =
scene was played for laughs, but personally, in among some nice touches =
of humor, I've always found some real poignancy too. It's never seemed =
to me that Lois wasn't really crying. She may have been crying for all =
the wrong reasons, certainly - self-pity being chief among them - but =
I've always had the impression that she was genuinely upset by the fact =
that her life was about to come to an abrupt and probably nasty end =
prematurely before she'd done everything she intended to do with it. And =
Clark's wistful observations in response to her wailing over the =
injustice of it all (she tends to remind me at times of that cartoon =
chick, Callimero (sp?) I'll confess! "Eets an injusteece!" <bg>) bring a =
lump to my throat every time I watch.  ("We're only =
human.....(beat).....I guess, when you're in love with someone... it =
doesn't matter how smart you are or how many rules you've set for =
yourself. You're still vulnerable.")
BTW, as an aside, I adore the script direction for Clark here: <g>

LOIS:  (cont'd) (beat) I guess I must have been in love. Or thought I =
was. I was only twenty-one, working on my first big scoop: this =
perfectly ordinary middle-age couple -- gun runners. One night, I told =
him about it and when I woke up the next morning he was gone. So was my =
story. He won an award for it. Didn't even thank me for my... input.

Clark quickly re-padlocks himself. There's no way he wants to extricate =
himself now.

LOL!

Gremlino@Pathway.Net wrote:

>The starry-eyed glances she gave to first Superman, and then
>Clark, in the first eps are in sharp contrast to the way she looked at =
him
>(them?) during the later eps.  The old zing just wasn't there any =
more.<<<
>
And Zoomway answered:

You're right that Lois did give Superman lots of adoring "starry-eyed" =
looks,
>but often they were of the "in awe" variety, as if she finally met a =
god from
>Mount Olympus face to face.  There was almost a "worship" quality in =
her
>expression.  With time, Superman came a bit closer to the Earth for =
her, and
>she began to treat him like a person. In conjunction with this, her =
friendship
>with Clark grew, and by the end of second season, she was in love with =
him.
>

I can't help but agree. Once Lois had gotten over her 'moony-eyed =
cheerleader' worship of Superman (which, don't misunderstand me, was a =
lot of fun at the time to watch too!) and embarked wholeheartedly on a =
relationship with the real thing, I found plenty of zing in S3 and S4. =
In S4 in particular, along with the sizzling sexuality there was a new =
and wonderful undertone of warmth and humor, intimacy, friendship and =
just plain affection which was delightful to view each week. Clark's =
delighted laughter at being teased by his wife at the end of LW is a =
good example. Although I do wish those elevator doors had been just a =
tad slower to close for once so that we could have watched him pull her =
into one of those affectionate bearhugs that he does so well. Sigh.....

And, just adding a couple of cents into the pot here......although I'm =
on record as saying that I enjoy all four seasons almost equally (and I =
do!), one small thing that always disappointed me a little in S4 was it =
seemed less.......layered than the previous 3 seasons. If that makes any =
sense at all. <g> I can't really put my finger squarely on it. I missed =
all the little side issues and background antics that you never noticed =
until your fourth viewing. That staffer blinding himself with the =
photocopier in TF for instance, which is a big favorite of mine. The =
newscasters - I still LOL over that rat-infected weathercaster refusing =
to tell anyone if there's going to be snow over Christmas until he gets =
a raise. And Kent Brockman (oops, sorry, wrong show) Brock Thompson's =
newscasts in particular always made me laugh. He is wonderful as he =
gradually loses all enthusiasm over the peace treaty in TTNBM until the =
point where he gives up completely and ends up lounging across the =
newsdesk, chain smoking as he reads the latest report.

Somehow, in some subtle way, a lot of that seemed to be lost in S4. =
There were instances of it, but less of the sparkle. Half the time the =
newsroom seemed like a ghost town version of its previous self. Take a =
look at the reactions of the staffers in the background when a =
disheveled and bug-bitten Lois starts in on Clark at the end of SV (or =
NB - still can't stop confusing them in my head). They're almost as much =
fun as the conversation with Jimmy, Cat, Lois and Clark in the =
foreground. Or, in similar vein, the reactions of the staffers passing =
by to Clark's new sartorial elegance when Lois takes him back to the =
newsroom in ASU.=20

Anyway, just an observation. And not a particularly coherent one either. =
Sometimes, we love or loathe something purely on instinct, feel a subtle =
difference we can't quite pin down.....but I just toss it into the pile =
in case anyone recognizes as part of their own misgivings about S4.

LabRat :)
Doc. Klein's LabRat
labrat@dircon.co.uk.

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<BODY>
<DIV>&gt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:gremlino@PATHWAY.NET">gremlino@PATHWAY.NET</A>=20
wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&lt;&lt; Lois crying in the<BR>&gt; premiere when =
she and=20
Clark are tied in the warehouse, and Lois crying in<BR>&gt; the ep =
&quot;Lois=20
and Clarks&quot; when she's talking to the alternate Clark about =
her<BR>&gt;=20
missing husband.&nbsp; The first was played for laughs--we can tell Lois =

isn't<BR>&gt;really crying--and the second is played =
for--what?--cries?&nbsp;=20
&lt;g&gt; Evokes a<BR>&gt;totally different feeling.&nbsp; =
&gt;&gt;<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>And Zoomway =
answered:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&gt;<BR>&gt;Not sure why Lois missing her husband should be played =
for=20
laughs.&nbsp; It's one<BR>&gt;of my favorite scenes from any season=20
though.&nbsp; It showed how deeply she loved<BR>&gt;and missed Clark. In =
that=20
sense, unlike Lois' &quot;death bed&quot; tear-fests of old,<BR>&gt;it =
was=20
totally open and honest, and thankfully not played for humor.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Thankfully is right! =
And, not to=20
dispute in any way that the warehouse scene was played for laughs, but=20
personally, in among some nice touches of humor, I've always found some =
real=20
poignancy too. It's never seemed to me that Lois wasn't really crying. =
She may=20
have been crying for all the wrong reasons, certainly - self-pity being =
chief=20
among them - but I've always had the impression that she was genuinely =
upset by=20
the fact that her life was about to come to an abrupt and probably nasty =
end=20
prematurely before she'd done everything she intended to do with it. And =
Clark's=20
wistful observations in response to her wailing over the injustice of it =
all=20
(she tends to remind me at times of that cartoon chick, Callimero (sp?) =
I'll=20
confess! &quot;Eets an injusteece!&quot; &lt;bg&gt;) bring a lump to my =
throat=20
every time I watch.&nbsp; (&quot;We're only human.....(beat).....I =
guess, when=20
you're in love with someone... it doesn't matter how smart you are or =
how many=20
rules you've set for yourself. You're still vulnerable.&quot;)
<P>BTW, as an aside, I adore the script direction for Clark here: =
&lt;g&gt;</P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>LOIS:&nbsp; (cont'd) </FONT></FONT><FONT =
size=3D2>(beat) I guess I=20
must have been in love. Or thought I was. I was only twenty-one, working =
on my=20
first big scoop: this perfectly ordinary middle-age couple -- gun =
runners. One=20
night, I told him about it and when I woke up the next morning he was =
gone. So=20
was my story. He won an award for it. Didn't even thank me for my...=20
input.</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Clark quickly re-padlocks himself. There's no way he =
wants to=20
extricate himself now.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>LOL!</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Gremlino@Pathway.Net">Gremlino@Pathway.Net</A> =
wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>&gt;The starry-eyed glances she gave to first Superman, and=20
then<BR>&gt;Clark, in the first eps are in sharp contrast to the way she =
looked=20
at him<BR>&gt;(them?) during the later eps.&nbsp; The old zing just =
wasn't there=20
any more.&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR>&gt;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>And Zoomway =
answered:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>You're right that Lois did give Superman lots of adoring=20
&quot;starry-eyed&quot; looks,<BR>&gt;but often they were of the =
&quot;in=20
awe&quot; variety, as if she finally met a god from<BR>&gt;Mount Olympus =
face to=20
face.&nbsp; There was almost a &quot;worship&quot; quality in=20
her<BR>&gt;expression.&nbsp; With time, Superman came a bit closer to =
the Earth=20
for her, and<BR>&gt;she began to treat him like a person. In conjunction =
with=20
this, her friendship<BR>&gt;with Clark grew, and by the end of second =
season,=20
she was in love with him.<BR>&gt;<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>I can't help but =
agree. Once Lois=20
had gotten over her 'moony-eyed cheerleader' worship of Superman (which, =
don't=20
misunderstand me, was a lot of fun at the time to watch too!) and =
embarked=20
wholeheartedly on a relationship with the real thing, I found plenty of =
zing in=20
S3 and S4. In S4 in particular, along with the sizzling sexuality there =
was a=20
new and wonderful undertone of warmth and humor, intimacy, friendship =
and just=20
plain affection which was delightful to view each week. Clark's =
delighted=20
laughter at being teased by his wife at the end of LW is a good example. =

Although I do wish those elevator doors had been just a tad slower to =
close for=20
once so that we could have watched him pull her into one of those =
affectionate=20
bearhugs that he does so well. Sigh.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>And, just adding a =
couple of cents=20
into the pot here......although I'm on record as saying that I enjoy all =
four=20
seasons almost equally (and I do!), one small thing that always =
disappointed me=20
a little in S4 was it seemed less.......layered than the previous 3 =
seasons. If=20
that makes any sense at all. &lt;g&gt; I can't really put my finger =
squarely on=20
it. I missed all the little side issues and background antics that you =
never=20
noticed until your fourth viewing. That staffer blinding himself with =
the=20
photocopier in TF for instance, which is a big favorite of mine. The =
newscasters=20
- I still LOL over that rat-infected weathercaster refusing to tell =
anyone if=20
there's going to be snow over Christmas until he gets a raise. And Kent =
Brockman=20
(oops, sorry, wrong show) Brock Thompson's newscasts in particular =
always made=20
me laugh. He is wonderful as he gradually loses all enthusiasm over the =
peace=20
treaty in TTNBM until the point where he gives up completely and ends up =

lounging across the newsdesk, chain smoking as he reads the latest=20
report.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Somehow, in some subtle way, a lot of =
that seemed=20
to be lost in S4. There were instances of it, but less of the sparkle. =
Half the=20
time the newsroom seemed like a ghost town version of its previous self. =
Take a=20
look at the reactions of the staffers in the background when a =
disheveled and=20
bug-bitten Lois starts in on Clark at the end of SV (or NB - still can't =
stop=20
confusing them in my head). They're almost as much fun as the =
conversation with=20
Jimmy, Cat, Lois and Clark in the foreground. Or, in similar vein, the =
reactions=20
of the staffers passing by to Clark's new sartorial elegance when Lois =
takes him=20
back to the newsroom in ASU. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Anyway, just an observation. And not =
a=20
particularly coherent one either. Sometimes, we love or loathe something =
purely=20
on instinct, feel a subtle difference we can't quite pin down.....but I =
just=20
toss it into the pile in case anyone recognizes as part of their own =
misgivings=20
about S4.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>LabRat :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DGeorgia=20
size=3D2>Doc. Klein's LabRat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:labrat@dircon.co.uk">labrat@dircon.co.uk</A>.</FONT></DIV>=

<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0041_01BE63E9.19C010E0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:39:16 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nethra Ankam <nsa105@PSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and Haircuts and End of DJ and 4th season
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Kathy wrote:
>>When it finally came off, the new haircut wasn't all that much
>>different from the old one, IMO.  And no mention was made of it on the
show.
>
>I distinctly remember after TPvLL, the next ep (whatever it was) Jimmy
saying to Lois "Nice Haircut" and her replying something like (can't
remember exact wording) "After having my face plastered all over as a
wanted felon, I thought a change would be nice"
>

Whoops! I meant the ep after DLW...

Nethra
who still thinks the fanfic list discussions are amazing, but are becoming
more LOISCLA-like...
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:47:03 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Nethra Ankam <nsa105@PSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Looking for a fanfic
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>Hi all!
>
>I am looking for a fic set in the alt. universe. I can't remember all of
>it but Clark/Superman is writing novels as "Clark Lane" when Lois comes
>back from the Congo. She creates a new identity for Clark as her husband
>"Clark Lane" who is blind.
>
>Anyone able to tell me the name or author?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Liz
>
>

It's "Always Something There to Remind Me" by Zoomway.  It's a great story!

Nethra
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:37:43 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Language
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> To us on this side of the Atlantic, a shop is where we buy things
(Americans refer to it as a store? To us, a store is where things are
kept - stored!). And if our cars need to be repaired, we'd take them
to a garage! Yes, I  know a garage is also a building attached to a
house where a car is parked overnight, but who says language has to
be consistent? <<

I think we use shop and store both, perhaps using store more often
(grocery store, book store, flower shop)  I guess it kind of depends on t=
he
type of things you buy there :-)  In my vignette, when I referred to the
"shop" I was shortening "auto-body shop", which is obviously a place to g=
et
your car fixed, but we also take our cars to garages.  =

And then there's my family, which needs cars fixed so often, we just refe=
r
to the mechanics by name... <sigh>

And while we're on the language subject, I'll throw in my lil contributio=
n:
 The US has curbs instead of kerbs :-)  Pronounced the same, as far as I
know, not that that matters too much in fanfic <g>

PJ
who is also posting way too much lately <g>

!^NavFont02F0352000DMGJHHcMHeHJ53CD70
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:37:39 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: End of DJ and 4th season
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> re: Pam's scene "answer"

Loved it! If that and your Forget Me Not, redux had been filmed, I would
have been a very happy camper! But I do think Clark was in shock that she=

would even pick Lex over him, and thus couldn't move and just stood there=
.
<<

Thank you, Nethra ... and yes, you're probably right, he was just in shoc=
k.
 But that moment came on top of so many other stupid moments that I have
no patience left.  Lex was at Clark's apartment -- why didn't Clark do
something with him then?  Jimmy *told* Clark about the novel, why didn't =
he
introduce himself as "Kent"?  How the heck did Lex get to the club before=

Clark??  I don't like to think of Clark as an idiot, but the evidence her=
e
was pretty overwhelming... and that's just the stuff I remember from that=

first, and only, painful viewing of the episode.  Oh well :-)  Maybe I'll=

go rewatch Tempus Fugitive (or AKAS, just to keep the fourth season theme=
)
to cheer me up <g>

PJ

!^NavFont02F02F5000FMGJHGC9MGCBHIF6DAE7

  Pam Jernigan (jernigan@compuserve.com)
  ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
It's KERTH time!  Read all about it at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
~~~~~
Read L&C Season 6 (S6) at: http://tempus.simplenet.com/season6/
(I'd turn off the NavFont garbage if I could <sigh>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:37:42 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Pam's DJ ending
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>> Having just re-watched DJ and Seconds yesterday, your little scene
(followed by FMN, R) would have been just perfect!! <<

Well, something along those lines, anyway, I'm sure I could be improved
upon :-) but thanks...

>> Why, oh why, did the scriptwriters make such a mess of the
characterisations over these five episodes? Why did the actors let
them get away with it? Why was Clark turned into such a wimp? And WHY
was there no proper resolution of all of this? <<

It was ABC's fault; they wanted to milk the wedding for maximum
ratings (unfortunately, they milked it dry and turned a lot of people off=

-- if the ARRGH had ended with L&C being married, as originally planned,
that would have helped a lot, I think).  As for the actors, I suspect Ter=
i
was seduced by the prospect of playing all those different characters
(Wanda, of course, and then there were the three very different
characterizations of Clois - oy!)  I've no idea what Dean's excuse might
be, other than that the network suits probably didn't give them much
choice.

>> Wendy
(whose brain has ever since been churning out dialogue for a
pre-IASWAL fanfic which would 'close' the AAARRGHHHH properly - why
hasn't someone invented software to transfer thoughts directly from
the brain to the computer screen without the need for me to find time
to sit down at the keyboard and type it!!) <<

LOL, that would be so handy, wouldn't it?  If you find such a machine, le=
t
me know!! :-)

PJ

!^NavFont02F04A6002FMGJHG67MG69HGB8MGBAHH7FMH81HJ55MJ57HK5DMK5FHKA7E60E
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:32:09 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Tull, James [CORP/STL]" <James.Tull@EMRSN.COM>
Subject:      Searching for Susan Stone
Comments: cc: Mr_D8a Yahoo <mr_d8a@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi to all Lois and Clark fans,
        My wife and I have read some fan fic from Susan Stone and would like
to get a hold of her and talk with her about her work, which we think is
excellent. We have read her two stories, ALIENS AND STRANGERS & LANEY AND
THE GIANT KILLERS and want to find out if she has more.  The email address,
sstone@sas.upenn.edu, seems to be out of date.
        Does anyone know how to get a hold of her?  Thank you for your help?

MR. D8A  A.K.A.  James
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on
your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will
direct your path. NIV
Please visit and explore my house at:
http://www.geocities.com/area51/starship/7859
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:18:34 +1100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jenny Stosser <jenerator@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I guess my earlier copy of this post didn't make it thru to the list, or
else this thread would not be continuing...

I have to butt in here to say that I read a report that the Nick Cage
Superman Lives movie has now been permanently SHELVED. ie It is NOT going
to be made, let alone released.  There were all sorts of problems with the
script, let alone the casting of Mr Cage (who, though a good actor, is not
right for the part of Superman, IMHO).

Here is the copy of the report that i read:
>>This piece of info is a tad late, but I only just read it and I don't
>>think i've seen it on the group so heres a bit a blatantley snipped info
>>about SUPERMAN LIVES from Coronas Coming Attractions:
>>
>>January 4, 1999... Here comes a CA exclusive for you: info so hot most
>>Warner Bros. employees will learn about it here first. Thanks to our
>>friend 'Mr. WB', we learn that a meeting was held on Sunday that may
>>have sealed the film's fate...
>>
>>"It's me again, this time with another report from the Warner Bros.
>>publicity department.
>>
>>"This is the big news: it appears the top brass held an informal,
>>at-somebody's-house meeting yesterday (Sunday, January 3) and
>>decided a few things about WB's future schedule. It sounds like we're
>>in trouble, what with the relative and expensive failure of Soldier
>>(although people are pleasantly surprised by You've Got Mail, on its
>>way to $100). Some publicity ideas for The Wild, Wild West were
>>kicked around and approved, so work has begun en masse for that
>>flick. But here's what you really want to know: there was an order
>>on my desk this morning to destroy ALL PUBLICITY MATERIALS,
>>PROSPECTIVE OR OTHERWISE, for SUPERMAN LIVES. The
>>project has been shelved because of an unnecessarily escalating
>>pre-production budget ($103.4 million has been spent to date), and
>>the PTB are tired of delays.
>>
>>"So, I guess you can all let your collective breath out, because
>>SUPERMAN LIVES, for now, ain't flyin' nowhere."
>>

Jen.
jenerator@ozemail.com.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn
(Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM -*- ICQ: 11477318
Photos of David (6) and Megan (3) on the Stosser Family HomePage:
http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583  Please sign our guestbook!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:28:26 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Eileen Barnard <eileen@BARNARD70.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Request for Information
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I would like to thank everybody for all the vast amount of information =
they gave me for my fanfic.

I was overwhelmed with how many of you had taken the time to do this for =
me, as I have only been on the list for a couple of months.  Some of the =
replies were really funny and me and my family had a good laugh.

Thanks again and the information has been a great help to me.

Kind regards
Eileen B
eileen@freeserve70.co.uk

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1700"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I would like to thank everybody for all the vast =
amount of=20
information they gave me for my fanfic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I was overwhelmed with how many of you had taken the =
time to=20
do this for me, as I have only been on the list for a couple of =
months.&nbsp;=20
Some of the replies were really funny and me and my family had a good=20
laugh.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks again and the information has been a great =
help to=20
me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Kind regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eileen B</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:eileen@freeserve70.co.uk">eileen@freeserve70.co.uk</A></FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:01:55 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Pam,

Yes!!! That's the scene I would have liked to have seen.  Thanks for
rewriting
it for us.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:22:00 -0400
Reply-To:     ruthlg@apk.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Ruth Link-Gelles <ruthlg@APK.NET>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi

> I have to butt in here to say that I read a report that the Nick Cage
> Superman Lives movie has now been permanently SHELVED. ie It is NOT going
> to be made, let alone released.

I read in the latest issue of PEOPLE magazine that Nick Cage was quoted as
saying that if Superman Lives ever went into production he'd be there.  To
me
this sounds like there is still a chance that it will be made.

IRC:
If someone could e-mail me privatly and tell me how to get on the IRC that
would be great.
Thanks in advance.

Ruth
ruthlg@apk.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:35:54 -0500
Reply-To:     x-lander@geocities.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mark Safransky <x-lander@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject:      Re: Superman Lives Shelved
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wendy Richards wrote:

> Jenny Stosser wrote:
>
> >"So, I guess you can all let your collective breath out, because
> >SUPERMAN LIVES, for now, ain't flyin' nowhere."
>
> Well I, for one, and very glad that is confirmed - I couldn't stand
> the thought of Nicholas Cage as Clark Kent  (yuck...eeewwww!!!) and I
> wouldn't even have been able to sit through trailers, let alone see
> the film. As for what I had read about the script... well, let's say
> it's just as well it's not happening.
>

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, or good news, the messenger always
seems to get it in the end.  Anyway, word out of lala land is that the
Superman movie is in preproduction still.  Tim Burton is no longer going
to direct although Nicholas Cage is still onboard as Supes.  The script
is apparently finished and they are shopping around for a new director.
More when I get more info from my snitch on the lot.

Mark
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:39:50 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Withdrawing Kerth Stories
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 2/28/99 7:04:22 PM Central Standard Time,
JCWimmer@AOL.COM
writes:

<< So, in conclusion, I would very much like my stories to stay on the
ballot.
 While it is intimidating to be up against Sheila and Zoom and KathyB... it
is
 an honor to be considered among them. >>

Crys, *I'm* the one who's honored, you do a great job. To me, the Kerths
aren't about awards so much as a fan community event, having fun, teasing
(we
were switching our nicks last year to some variation of Susan Luci .. er
Lucci
.. Luchi? Suzanne? <g> (probably misspelling it a lot too ;) the much
nominated, but never winning, soap actress <g>  We were cheering on *all*
the
nominees, and then going crazy with scroll after scroll of congratulations
to
them (this taking place on the other channel, sort of "backstage" at the
Kerths, that channel being moderated to keep the scroll down)  However, the
whole experience last year made me understand those in "showbiz" who say the
real honor is in being nominated. It means someone saw what you did and
thought enough of it to nominate you.  It's just very touching, at least I
feel that way about it.

Zoomway@aol.com (Congratulations to the nominees, and thank you to those who
nominated my story, I'm very flattered... and honored, doggone it ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:00:12 -0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         LabRat <labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Information Please
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hey Eileen!

Tried to mail this to you personally this evening, but the message came =
back address unknown, so......
=20
Forgive me if I've gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely =
here and I have the wrong person, but from your post to the list this =
evening, can I assume that you were the UK FoLC who asked for help with =
conversion to UK-US English for her fanfic?  (I did my usual neat job of =
hitting the delete button on all my old posts long before I should have =
<g>)
=20
If the answer is yes and you're not looking blankly at the screen right =
now, wondering who this idiot is.......can I offer some advice?
=20
I started writing LNC fanfic last year and, like you, immediately =
realized that I needed some help with the logistics of life in the US. =
There are just too many differences to deal with on the list (some of =
them most surprising! I discover something new every day. Today I =
discovered that in the US glasses have temples not arms or legs. <g> =
Thanks, Becky!) - you could go on forever. And its always the little =
niggling details that you miss - the everyday things that no one who =
lives in the US ever thinks to mention because they are so common - that =
you really need to know about!
=20
So......what you need is a marvellous little invention called - a US =
proofer. <g> All that I did was post to Zoom's mb  (but the list will do =
as well) requesting that some kind US FoLC might help me out by proofing =
my fanfic before I posted them and correcting any UK-US variations.
=20
Apart from the fact that I have learned so much that I never knew about =
life in the US and the differences in our cultures - you also get your =
fanfic proofed and you meet some *really* nice FoLCs all at the same =
time.
=20
Anyway - its worked so well for me that I just thought I'd recommend it, =
if no one has volunteered offlist already.
=20
Good luck!
=20
LabRat :)
Doc. Klein's LabRat
labrat@dircon.co.uk.

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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Hey Eileen!<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DGeorgia=20
size=3D2>Tried to mail this to you personally this evening, but the =
message came=20
back address unknown, so......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>Forgive me if I've gotten =
hold of the=20
wrong end of the stick entirely here and I have the wrong person, but =
>from your=20
post to the list this evening, can I assume that you were the UK FoLC =
who asked=20
for help with conversion to UK-US English for her fanfic?&nbsp; (I did =
my usual=20
neat job of hitting the delete button on all my old posts long before I =
should=20
have &lt;g&gt;)<BR>&nbsp;<BR>If the answer is yes and you're not looking =
blankly=20
at the screen right now, wondering who this idiot is.......can I offer =
some=20
advice?<BR>&nbsp;<BR>I started writing LNC fanfic last year and, like =
you,=20
immediately realized that I needed some help with the logistics of life =
in the=20
US. There are just too many differences to deal with on the list (some =
of them=20
most surprising! I discover something new every day. Today I discovered =
that in=20
the US glasses have temples not arms or legs. &lt;g&gt; Thanks, Becky!)=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>- you could go on forever. And its =
always the=20
little niggling details that you miss - the everyday things that no one =
who=20
lives in the US ever thinks to mention because they are so common - that =
you=20
really need to know about!<BR>&nbsp;<BR>So......what you need is a =
marvellous=20
little invention called - a US proofer. &lt;g&gt; All that I did was =
post to=20
Zoom's mb&nbsp; (but the list will do as well) requesting that some kind =
US FoLC=20
might help me out by proofing my fanfic before I posted them and =
correcting any=20
UK-US variations.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Apart from the fact that I have learned =
so much=20
that I never knew about life in the US and the differences in our =
cultures - you=20
also get your fanfic proofed and you meet some *really* nice FoLCs all =
at the=20
same time.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Anyway - its worked so well for me that I just =
thought=20
I'd recommend it, if no one has volunteered offlist =
already.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Good=20
luck!<BR>&nbsp;<BR>LabRat :)<BR>Doc. Klein's LabRat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:labrat@dircon.co.uk">labrat@dircon.co.uk</A>.</FONT></DIV>=

<DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:11:23 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alicia B. Ablola" <Kismet3838@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
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I believe the phrase IMHO is
In my humble opinion
or
In my honest opinion

Kismet
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:35:45 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Eileen Barnard <eileen@BARNARD70.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Information Please
MIME-Version: 1.0
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    -----Original Message-----
    From: LabRat <labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK>
    To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU =
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
    Date: 01 March 1999 14:01
    Subject: Re: Information Please
   =20
   =20
    Hey Eileen!
   =20
    Tried to mail this to you personally this evening, but the message =
came back address unknown, so......
    =20
     Hey Labrat
   =20
    I'm posting this to the list as I can't seem to get through to you =
personally.
   =20
    Thanks for the message.  You probably got an address unknown because =
we were having huge problems with the network here for a couple of days =
and messages are only just beginning to trickle through to me.
    =20
    I have actually had an offer from somebody in the US to edit my =
fanfic and am going to take her up on her offer - thanks for the tip. =
All the FoLCs have been great and so helpful and friendly and that makes =
me feel really good.
    =20
    It was great to chat with you.
    =20
    Thanks again
    =20
    Eileen B
    eileen@barnard70.freeserve.co.uk
    =20
    =20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1700"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>LabRat &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK">labrat@DIRCON.CO.UK</A>&gt;<BR><B>To:=
=20
    </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU">LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@=
LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</A>=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU">LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@=
LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>01 March 1999 14:01<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Information=20
    Please<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>Hey Eileen!<BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
face=3DGeorgia=20
    size=3D2>Tried to mail this to you personally this evening, but the =
message=20
    came back address unknown, so......</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;Hey =
Labrat</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>I'm posting this to the list as I =
can't seem=20
    to get through to you personally.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DGeorgia size=3D2>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks for the message.&nbsp; You probably got =
an address=20
    unknown because we were having huge problems with the network here =
for a=20
    couple of days and messages are only just beginning to trickle =
through to=20
    me.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have actually had an offer from somebody in =
the US to=20
    edit my fanfic and am going to take her up on her offer - thanks for =
the=20
    tip. All the FoLCs have been great and so helpful and friendly and =
that=20
    makes me feel really good.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>It was great to chat with you.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks again</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Eileen B</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:eileen@barnard70.freeserve.co.uk">eileen@barnard70.freeser=
ve.co.uk</A></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:54:36 -0600
Reply-To:     rpickeri@isd.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Robert Pickering <rpickeri@ISD.NET>
Subject:      Re: Pam's DJ ending
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I could be absolutely wrong, but I always assumed that the TV version of the
wedding took so long to occur so that the wedding would coincide with the
comic book version of the wedding.

Pam Jernigan wrote:

> It was ABC's fault; they wanted to milk the wedding for maximum
> ratings (unfortunately, they milked it dry and turned a lot of people off
> -- if the ARRGH had ended with L&C being married, as originally planned,
> that would have helped a lot, I think).  As for the actors, I suspect Teri
> was seduced by the prospect of playing all those different characters
> (Wanda, of course, and then there were the three very different
> characterizations of Clois - oy!)  I've no idea what Dean's excuse might
> be, other than that the network suits probably didn't give them much
> choice.

--
Robert Pickering
Richfield, Minnesota
-------------------------0
-----------------------< ^-
-----------------------\/ \
-------------------------- \_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:42:24 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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In a message dated 2/28/99 4:22:36 PM Central Standard Time,
Cdfisler@AOL.COM
writes:

<< Sorry, Zoom but given the background, even if Lois does change her
attitude
in
 Season II (to give her her due, she becomes a real partner to Clark, even
 saving him a couple of times both as Superman and more important as Clark)
I
 can easily see how Clark would still be unsure of her even after her
 declaration in WWW.  So how can she blame him?  But she does, "You lied to
me
 for two years."
 This from the girl who told Perry, ("but don't you lie to him") of course,
 etc. Sorry but the girl still has a double standard and it is obviously
still
 in effect after the proposal. >>

The problem is all of this proceeds from a false beginning.  That is,
instead
of confessing his true feelings to Lois, when Clark of *all* people knew she
loved Superman, he should have had *Superman* warn her about Lex Luthor.
That
was the whole *point*.  Even Clark's mother told Clark to keep Lois away
from
Lex because of what a monster he is.  "Clark Kent" warning Lois about Lex
would have rightfully seemed ludicrous to Lois.  She had seen Lex a lot more
than Clark, and even when Clark encountered Lex, she was usually with him,
or
at the very least, as in PML, when Clark and Lex did speak without Lois
being
there, others were.  In the end, why would "Clark" know more about Lex than
Lois?  At least from Lois' point of view? Worse, when Clark did warn Lois,
he
sounded more like he was jealous of Lex rather than having any concrete
points
for backing up his accusations.

Superman, on the other hand, could have convinced Lois. Not just because she
seemed to believe him unconditionally, but due to many factors, including x-
ray vision, super hearing, Superman having to deal with the "bad buys" of
Metropolis, etc., there's just a lot more credence that could be given to
*him* warning her about Lex.  Instead, we get Clark having hurt feelings,
and
so he let's that stand in the way of Lois going off with a monster.  He lost
sight of the original goal of preventing the marriage, instead drifting into
"I love you" and since you don't love me, go ahead, get in bed with the
devil.

In turn, showing how alike Lois and Clark were, Lois had hurt feelings due
to
Superman spurning her (AKA "Clark's Revenge") and so decided to marry Lex
Luthor.  Clark stopped being a hero when she needed one most, and Lois
stopped
being a tenacious, tough investigative reporter when she needed to be one
most.  They both raised a white flag.

Now we move forward to second season, and Clark did something rather smart,
but probably not deliberately. He made Superman more of a presence in Lois'
life instead of avoiding her as Superman, thus allowing Superman to be more
of
a "person" in her eyes. So much of "Clark" started bleeding through, that in
Operation Blackout, he was bemused by her predicament with the flag pole
(only
Lois could get in that kind of jam) and teased with her about it, like Clark
would have.

In Bolt from the Blue, something pivotal happened. Something that knocked
Superman down a notch on Lois' pedestal -- he lied to her, or more
precisely,
he deliberately misled her.  Prior to that, Lois would have seen Superman as
incapable of such duplicity. Then another pivotal moment in Metallo. Lois
confessed to Clark that what attracts her to Superman is *not* his super
powers (she said this in Barbarians at the Planet too)  It's his kindness,
his
innate goodness -- "he's a lot like you (Clark)"   She also confessed (of
Clark) to Superman that "there's nothing I wouldn't do for him".  All of
this
gave Clark *realistic* hope that Lois might be agreeable to a date, and sure
enough, she was ;)  We then fast forward to the "moment of truth" episode,
Whine Whine Whine.

In Dr. Friskin's office, Lois complained that all the men in her life had
been
controlling or liars and wondered aloud, "If I *want* that kind of man and
*get* that kind of man, then why am I not happy?"  "You like chocolate,
right?" "How come everybody knows that?"  "But you know it's not good for
you,
and the older and wiser we get, the less tolerance we have for things that
aren't good for us."    Friskin tells Lois she's not a victim, and that she
knows who she wants, and she's known all along, "the problem is, he's just
as
scared as you are. So, who's going to step up and say the scary words?"
Lois
steps up to the plate ;)

Lois dumped Scardino and tearfully relegated Superman to friendship.
Tearfully because she still loved him, she always has, and she always will,
but not in the way she came to love Clark.  Clark was the one, and they both
decided to take "the next step"; a committed *exclusive* relationship.
Then,
in The Answer Is, Lois told  Superman "Tell *Clark* that I love him."  The
episode ends with Clark proposing to Lois. We then open with We Have a Lot
to
Talk About and Lois unmasking Clark. "How long have I known? Since
yesterday.
How did I find out? When you did this," she said, and placed a hand on his
cheek. "You've touched me before, *both* of you, but I guess almost dying
heightens the senses. Sort of like putting on a pair of glasses."

Here is where the argument that Clark had a right to be suspicious and to
propose to Lois without telling her the truth for fear that she might accept
only because he was really Superman falls to pieces.  First of all,
attempting
to start a marriage on an utter lie was a lousy way to begin, but also, once
Clark found out that Lois knew the truth *before* he proposed and *still*
turned him down, should have told him *right* there that she had no interest
in accepting a proposal from Superman either.

Think about it, even later in the parking lot Clark explained he needed to
know that she would marry him as Clark rather than Superman and then he'd
have
told her everything (his word for "the truth" apparently ;) Then the ironic
comment from Lois "I guess we'll never know then, will we." is compeltely
lost
on Clark because if he thought about it, wouldn't Lois, if she wanted
Superman
and knew Clark *was* Superman, have said "Yes! Of *course* I'll marry you!"
and then just "pretend" to be surprised later when he "told her everything"?
Tempus needed to pop in momentarily and shout, "How *dumb* was he?" <g>

If Clark was still *that* suspicious and untrusting of Lois, he should
*never*
have proposed in the first place.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:02:50 -0600
Reply-To:     rpickeri@isd.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Robert Pickering <rpickeri@ISD.NET>
Subject:      Seconds
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At the risk of being accused of turning this into a comic book listserv,
at the beginning of the Seconds ep, Lex lures Sman, by an
ultra-frequency message, to a park bench at the corner of Kirby and
Steranko.   Kirby and Steranko are two artists primarily known for their
work at Marvel Comics (DC Comics's rival), although both did some work
for DC as well.
--
Robert Pickering
Richfield, Minnesota
-------------------------0
-----------------------< ^-
-----------------------\/ \
-------------------------- \_
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:01:46 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:42 PM 3/1/99 EST, The Zoomway wrote:
>If Clark was still *that* suspicious and untrusting of Lois, he should
*never*
>have proposed in the first place.

Except he wasn't that suspicious and untrusting of her.  His brain just
quits functioning when Lois hurts his feelings  :P  I love Clark dearly; I
think he's as close to a perfect male as any real female could stand, but
there's no denying that he does some dunderheaded things.

Think about it:  Lois turns down his proposal of marriage in BatP, and he
immediately turns around and rejects her as Superman instead of warning her
about Lex.

When she turns down his marriage proposal in WHALTTA, he doesn't hear her
saying "Not *yet.*"  He only hears, "No."  Then he comes up with that stupid
explanation in the parking lot that he had to know that Lois would be
willing to marry *Clark,* not Superman.  And that was after she literally
laid down her life for his parents because it was the only way she could
help Clark ("Greater love hath no man, etc.")

When (as Wanda Detroit in DJ) she turns Clark down and drives away with Lex,
he lets her go off with a wanted criminal.  I don't see the issue being
whether she's in her right mind or not because (if we cut Clark the same
slack we cut the first season Lois) he doesn't know that she's lost her
memory and is living out her novel.  However, Clark is still Superman, and
he has a moral responsibility to bring Lex in.  Besides, hauling Lex in
wouldn't have forced Lois to do anything against *her* will.

Anyway, my point is that Clark's brain goes into hiding and he just reacts
to his hurt, at least when he's feeling rejected by Lois.  If he ever
actually thought about it, he would undoubtedly realize that he's acting
like an idiot, but the point is that he doesn't think.  He just reacts.

I'm glad that marriage seemed to cure that tendency of his, perhaps because
there was no reason for him to feel rejected by Lois, but whatever the
reason, he didn't act that way after he and Lois were married.  Another
reason, I guess, that I prefer to write L&C after they're married:  they
both act a lot more grown up :)

Sheila Harper
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:28:26 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and haircuts
In-Reply-To:  <005f01be63c9$b7f02ea0$2d3470c2@default>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:29 AM +0000 3/1/99, LabRat wrote:
>. But a big thing is made of her new haircut at the start of  this
>episode, when Jimmy's new girlfriend decides its cool and Lois says that
>she cut it short after seeing herself on the wanted posters.  <g>

Well, I stand (sit?) corrected!  Makes me wonder if my station cut out that
scene since I have absolutely no memory of it. LOL!

But actually, I kind of liked B&C&L&C. <g>

Kathy

______________________
Kathy Brown
kathyb@springnet1.com
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:23:37 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Wigs and haircuts
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In a message dated 3/1/99 12:07:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM writes:

<< In interviews that summer, Dean assured
 everyone that his hair would be grown back in time for LOTF, but I think he
 overestimated how fast his hair would grow if he believed that. <g> >>

Hmmm .. was he dating during this time?

I know some very interesting theories on what makes one's hair grow faster.

<VBG>
Anne ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:45:11 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kathy Brown <kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Subject:      Re: Searching for Susan Stone
In-Reply-To:  <79C7BC7656CBD21190910008C7FA82ED3ACD@mxsemrstl01.emotors.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 9:32 AM -0600 3/1/99, Tull, James [CORP/STL] wrote:
>Hi to all Lois and Clark fans,
>        My wife and I have read some fan fic from Susan Stone and would
like
>to get a hold of her and talk with her about her work, which we think is
>excellent. We have read her two stories, ALIENS AND STRANGERS & LANEY AND
>THE GIANT KILLERS and want to find out if she has more.  The email address,
>sstone@sas.upenn.edu, seems to be out of date.
>        Does anyone know how to get a hold of her?  Thank you for your
help?
>

Boy, I'm pulling out an old memory here, but I seem to remember emailing
with Susan once a long time ago -- 2 years ago maybe? And she said that she
was starting a very busy schedule (starting/graduating college maybe?), and
that she was dropping out of FoLCdom due to this lack of time, and didn't
plan to continue the series (which I agree is outstanding).  I can't swear
my memory is correct on this, but this is what comes to mind.

If you do track her down, I'd love to hear how she's doing!

Kathy

______________________
Kathy Brown
kathyb@springnet1.com
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:37:48 -1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jamee Jones <shore@MAUI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70338451: TERI
HATCHER
              One Dollar Bill
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="------------9D81EF2686F282EC815D86D4"

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Thankyou to whomever sent this to me!?  It's pretty neat!!

jme

Terry Thurston wrote:

> I saw this item for sale at eBay, i thought that you guys might like
> this
>
> Title of item:  TERI HATCHER One Dollar Bill
> Seller: chanhmle3@yahoo.com
> Starts: 02/22/99 20:17:50 PST
> Ends:   03/01/99 20:17:50 PST
> Price:  Currently $2.50
> To bid on the item, go to:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=70338451
>
> Item Description:
>
> 98degrees
>
>  Teri Hatcher
>
>  One Dollar Bill
> This one dollar bill has a picture photo of  Teri Hatcher
>
> nicely affixed over George Washington on a real, mint, uncirculated
> dollar bill-legal and negotiable. This dollar bill is permitted by the
> U.S. government. It is a very very cool collectible! Take a look for
> yourself at the picture below. This is what customers are saying about
> the Celebrity One Dollar Bills:
>
> I have received the celebrity dollar bill today...it is great! -- MJ
> My daughter loved the dollar bill I gave her.  It is a cool gift.-- SD
>
> Very unique item!  I'm satisfied! --KD
> The BRC dollar bill makes a very nice addition to my collection.
> Thanks! --SL
> I have had many satisfied customers with this product!
>
> See your favorite star on a dollar bill. It makes a great gift for
> your friend or for you. You'll have lots of fun showing it off. It is
> a fantastic and unique collector's item, so collect now. Each bill
> comes in a clear plastic currency holder.
>
> SHIPPING AND PAYMENT
> Winning bidder will prepay with CASH, CHECK, OR MONEY ORDER. Buyers
> outside of the U.S. pays with International money order or U.S. cash
> only. Check will take 7-10 days to clear before shipping. Add $1.00 to
> shipping and handling. Thank you for bidding!
>
> *****************************************************************
> Please take a look at
> my other auctions for more Celebrity Dollar Bills.
>
>         Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at
> http://www.ebay.com

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<HTML>
Thankyou to whomever sent this to me!?&nbsp; It's pretty neat!!

<P>jme
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>Terry Thurston wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I saw this item for sale at eBay, i thought that
you guys might like this

<P>Title of item:&nbsp; TERI HATCHER One Dollar Bill
<BR>Seller: chanhmle3@yahoo.com
<BR>Starts: 02/22/99 20:17:50 PST
<BR>Ends:&nbsp;&nbsp; 03/01/99 20:17:50 PST
<BR>Price:&nbsp; Currently $2.50
<BR>To bid on the item, go to:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=70338451">
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=70338451</A>

<P>Item Description:

<P>98degrees

<P>&nbsp;Teri Hatcher

<P>&nbsp;One Dollar Bill
<BR>This one dollar bill has a picture photo of&nbsp; Teri Hatcher

<P>nicely affixed over George Washington on a real, mint, uncirculated
dollar bill-legal and negotiable. This dollar bill is permitted by the
U.S. government. It is a very very cool collectible! Take a look for
yourself
at the picture below. This is what customers are saying about the Celebrity
One Dollar Bills:

<P>I have received the celebrity dollar bill today...it is great! -- MJ
<BR>My daughter loved the dollar bill I gave her.&nbsp; It is a cool gift.--
SD
<BR>Very unique item!&nbsp; I'm satisfied! --KD
<BR>The BRC dollar bill makes a very nice addition to my collection.&nbsp;
Thanks! --SL
<BR>I have had many satisfied customers with this product!

<P>See your favorite star on a dollar bill. It makes a great gift for your
friend or for you. You'll have lots of fun showing it off. It is a fantastic
and unique collector's item, so collect now. Each bill comes in a clear
plastic currency holder.

<P>SHIPPING AND PAYMENT
<BR>Winning bidder will prepay with CASH, CHECK, OR MONEY ORDER. Buyers
outside of the U.S. pays with International money order or U.S. cash only.
Check will take 7-10 days to clear before shipping. Add $1.00 to shipping
and handling. Thank you for bidding!

<P>*****************************************************************
<BR>Please take a look at
<BR>my other auctions for more Celebrity Dollar Bills.

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Visit eBay, the world's
largest
Personal Trading Community at <A HREF="http://www.ebay.com">
http://www.ebay.com</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;&nbsp;</HTML>

--------------9D81EF2686F282EC815D86D4--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:53:29 +0900
Reply-To:     lizo@ozemail.com.au
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Liz O <lizo@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: Looking for a fanfic
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nethra Ankam wrote:
Yes it is isn't it! Thanks for the help.

Liz
>
> It's "Always Something There to Remind Me" by Zoomway.  It's a great
story!
>
> Nethra
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:02:43 +1100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Louise Kendall <jem@WEBONE.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: Information Please
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As an Australian I feel compelled to clear up a serious (if you're a fan of
the sport) misunderstanding here. :)

Footie (correctly spelled Footy) is not Soccer.  Ask any soccer or footy fan
<g>  It is Australian Rules Football AKA Aussie Rules AKA Aerial Pingpong.
It involves a lot of running and kicking and something kind of like
dribbling in basketball (players running with the ball must bounce it off
the ground every few steps which is not as easy as it sounds since the balls
are the same shape as the ones used in American Football (referred here as
Gridiron to differentiate from Footy) and jumping up on the backs of other
players (usually the opposing team :) to catch or "mark" the ball.

As a little piece of side trivia, the game of aussie rules was invented to
keep the cricket players in shape during winter.  It has now evolved into a
sport with it's own leagues, it's own playoffs and it's own rabid fans. :)

As for Rugby League and Rugby Union, I'm told there is a difference between
the two but I don't know and I don't care.  The only reason I know about
footy and cricket is a brother who loves the former and a father who loves
the latter - and me with no tv of my own. :)

Here endeth the lesson...

jem
-----Original Message-----
From: The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Date: Monday, 1 March 1999 8:25
Subject: Re: Information Please

>In a message dated 2/28/99 10:19:32 AM Central Standard Time,
>sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US writes:
>
>You had me rolling on the floor, there, Sheila <G> I used to be (used to
be?
>;) on line so late at night that I'd run into Aussie L&C fans.  There was a
>sentence I remember to this day that I had to have a translation for: "Went
to
>the footie Saturday arvo. Had the sunnies and jumper and looked daggy!"
Now,
>I'm not sure I spelled all of that correctly, but it meant this person went
to
>a football (Soccer) game Saturday afternoon wearing a sweater and
sunglasses
>and felt they looked nerdy or geeky in some way.  As best I can recall the
>translation ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:53:11 -1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jamee Jones <shore@MAUI.NET>
Subject:      OH man! big oops!!!hehehe
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Jamee Jones wrote:

>  >>Thankyou to whomever sent this to me!?  It's pretty neat!! <<

I can't believe I just did that!! I have been emailing so many people on
ebay lately about certain items, I didn't realize this was from the
fanfic list!! I sat there thinking, who in the world sent this to me? I
don't know a Terry Thurston! But mommy always taught me to say thankyou!
So I did! hehehehe;)

jme......who thinks her hubby put *a little* too much brandy and cream
liquer in her milk tonight!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:57:11 -1000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Jamee Jones <shore@MAUI.NET>
Subject:      Re: Sorry.......
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Annobelle said:

> >
> >Just wanted tosay that I amsorry for asking about Deans address.  I
> >should never have done it.  I am sorry if I offended anyone.
>
> and then Karen Ward wrote:

> >>  I was the one who made the mistake by publicly
> posting the address I had discovered when I probably should have
> emailed
> you privately.<<

OH please don't feel bad! I too said something about hearing he lived
somewhere in Malibu by Paradise Cove.  sometimes we just say things and
don't think about what it involves, but we don't mean any harm by it. I
know I do this ALL of the time! Probably
why I don't post as much either!<g> Not that anyone has ever, ever made
me feel like I can't! That's just me and my little insecurities!;) But
everyone here is so incredibly nice and understanding, they have never
made me feel this way and I know they don't want you too either!:o)

jme
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:06:59 +0900
Reply-To:     lizo@ozemail.com.au
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Liz O <lizo@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: Information Please(An Australian Goes very off topic)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

To add to what Louise has said, Aussie Rules is very much like the Irish
game of Gaelic football, except with an oval ball and different goal
posts.

Unlike soccer, which does not allow players to touch the ball with their
hands (except the goal keeper), Aussie Rules relies equally on good feet
and handskills.

Followers of the game are fanatical about their teams, especially in the
states of Victoria and South Australia - it is almost a religion!
Alright, I confess to being a rabid follower of the Adelaide Crows!
(Premiers the last two years running!)

Enough cheering, "daggy" has a slightly different meaning to "nerdy" or
"geeky"

The "dag" is the dirty bit of wool at the back of a sheep around its
tail (if you get my drift). To be a dag is to be odd, eccentric, or
either dirty and slovenly or whilst neat in appearance and conservative
in manners, lacking in style and panache.

BTW in Australia we wear windcheaters - to Americans, long sleeved
sweatshirts.

I'll get back to LNC now.

Liz O

Louise Kendall wrote:
>
> As an Australian I feel compelled to clear up a serious (if you're a fan
of
> the sport) misunderstanding here. :)
>
> Footie (correctly spelled Footy) is not Soccer.  Ask any soccer or footy
fan
> <g>  It is Australian Rules Football AKA Aussie Rules AKA Aerial Pingpong.
> It involves a lot of running and kicking and something kind of like
> dribbling in basketball (players running with the ball must bounce it off
> the ground every few steps which is not as easy as it sounds since the
balls
> are the same shape as the ones used in American Football (referred here as
> Gridiron to differentiate from Footy) and jumping up on the backs of other
> players (usually the opposing team :) to catch or "mark" the ball.
>
> As a little piece of side trivia, the game of aussie rules was invented to
> keep the cricket players in shape during winter.  It has now evolved into
a
> sport with it's own leagues, it's own playoffs and it's own rabid fans. :)
>
> As for Rugby League and Rugby Union, I'm told there is a difference
between
> the two but I don't know and I don't care.  The only reason I know about
> footy and cricket is a brother who loves the former and a father who loves
> the latter - and me with no tv of my own. :)
>
> Here endeth the lesson...
>
> jem
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:46:01 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/1/99 9:02:08 PM Central Standard Time,
sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US writes:

<< Think about it:  Lois turns down his proposal of marriage in BatP, and he
 immediately turns around and rejects her as Superman instead of warning her
 about Lex. >>

Er... he didn't propose to Lois in BatP, did he?  I thought he just
confessed
that he loved her?  "You must have known." Lois is totally flummoxed. "I
guess
I did, well, I guess I knew you were attracted to me.." and then goes on to
tell him that she doesn't feel the same way about him, romantically.  She
says
she does love him as a friend and he's the only partner she could stand to
have, but I don't remember a proposal.

>>>When she turns down his marriage proposal in WHALTTA, he doesn't hear her
saying "Not *yet.*"  He only hears, "No."  Then he comes up with that stupid
explanation in the parking lot that he had to know that Lois would be
willing to marry *Clark,* not Superman.  And that was after she literally
laid down her life for his parents because it was the only way she could
help Clark<<<

I agree. Though, what makes them so alike again, is that Clark shut off his
hearing  at "No", as you said, and then wasn't going to even permit an
attempt
at an explanation or apology from Lois.  He literally recoils from her
attempt
to kiss him, won't listen to what she's saying about both of them
overreacting, and he runs out pretending to hear sirens.  It's not all too
different from Lois' "avoidance" behavior in LL.  She rambles on about the
Bath Friend and Desk Friend while he's trying to get through to her about
what
happened. She even launches him at Mayson.  For both of them, the only
coping
skill they seemed to have in their "relationship-challenged" experience, was
to .. run ;)  What's also funny, is that they can't see it in themselves.
Clark is the king of avoidance in WHALTTA, but in Just Say Noah, he talks
about making his mistake with Lois in Contact, and "Bam" the door slams in
my
face and the Supreme Court isn't hearing any appeals.  Lois probably felt
the
same way in this episode ;)

>>>>When (as Wanda Detroit in DJ) she turns Clark down and drives away with
Lex,
he lets her go off with a wanted criminal.  I don't see the issue being
whether she's in her right mind or not because (if we cut Clark the same
slack we cut the first season Lois) he doesn't know that she's lost her
memory and is living out her novel.  However, Clark is still Superman, and
he has a moral responsibility to bring Lex in.  Besides, hauling Lex in
wouldn't have forced Lois to do anything against *her* will.<<<

I'm not giving either of them a pass on their behavior, other than to say
they
both reacted similarly when taking a severe blow to the heart. They
retreated,
deflated, and felt very very hurt. If they loved each other any less, it
wouldn't be a problem, but fortunately for us, they loved each other very
much
;)

>>>Anyway, my point is that Clark's brain goes into hiding and he just
reacts
to his hurt, at least when he's feeling rejected by Lois.  If he ever
actually thought about it, he would undoubtedly realize that he's acting
like an idiot, but the point is that he doesn't think.  He just reacts.<<

What saves Clark here (not that he needs it ;) is that he almost lost Lois,
and if she had died without ever knowing why, he'd never forgive himself, as
he so eloquently said. Now, that *sounds*  to us (the audience), and to
Lois,
as if he's going to tell her the truth.  She's ready for that, obviously.
Then, to her, and our surprise, he proposes marriage.  To me, and admittedly
it's a stretch, I think Clark's heart was so full of love at that moment, he
wanted to tell Lois how much he loved her *first*. To show her he wanted her
with him for the rest of  his life. That was the *priority* message he
wanted
to send. *That* was what was important to Clark at that moment, and not that
he was Superman, not that he didn't trust Lois, but rather, what was in his
heart.

I think that's why he didn't mind at all offering the ring a second time in
the Superman costume, she now knew the secret, she should just see him as
Clark, regardless of the "suit", and that should be that.  But to Lois, it
*wasn't* that simple, and having him in the suit just made it worse.  "But
that's just it, I don't know anymore."  She went through two years of
thinking
they were two different men, and suddenly she not only knows they're the
same
man, but both of them -- him, what to marry her.  As she said, "It's just
too
much"  She was overloaded by the whole thing.  But, as you said, Clark
stopped
listening at "No".  His whole attitude, demeanor, expression, body language,
everything, changed.  Lois lashes out, "Don't get petulant with me, *I'm*
the
one who was lied too."  Clark lashes back, "Oh, so I'm not supposed to
*feel*
anything?"  To Lois it's a trust issue, and to Clark it's a rejection issue,
but both are wonderfully miserable ;)

By the parking lot scene, it's still a trust issue for Lois, and still a
rejection issue for Clark, but his weird comment "Because you found out
something about me that you just didn't like" expressed a rejection that
didn't even happen. As I've said before, it was like programming from
childhood "don't let them know you're 'different' or they won't like you"
So
no matter *what* Lois really said, Clark heard something that only existed
in
his own mind.  Then, in the next episode, Lois accepts him for that
difference, even granting that she doesn't understand it or his fear
completely, she knows it's part of  him, the *whole* him, the man/men she
loves.

I still believe that Clark, if he *truly* didn't trust Lois enough by then
to
know whether it was "Clark" or "Superman" she loved, then it was the *wrong*
time to propose, but since I think he might have proposed first simply
because
his love for her was what he was trying to convey, then he really wasn't
trying to be deceptive. ATAI really accelerated things. It started with
Clark
determined to tell her the truth, because he felt their relationship
couldn't
go any further until Lois knew the truth.  Then, when Lois went to him (as
Superman) and was so desperate, "You haven't seen him Superman, he *needs*
me,
and I have never needed you more than I do right now. You just can't turn me
down. You can't."   Of course he couldn't, he never could. Great
expressiveness from both Dean and Teri in that scene.  He looks at her as if
she's the most brave and amazing person on the planet, and he loves her so
much.

I think this changed everything for Clark in that instant.  It was no longer
necessary to play the dating game with Lois.  All he ever needed to know
about
her, or would ever need to know about her, happened in those few minutes.
He
felt this so deeply that he wanted to overshoot "the next step" of a
committed
dating relationship, and move right to a lifetime commitment with her.  It's
what makes his line at the end of Just Say Noah so poignant, "My love is
forever because... because it just is."  He didn't give a reason, because he
didn't need one.  Lois, on the other hand, took a *little* more convincing,
but it was fun watching Clark ... convince her ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:02:05 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Terry Thurston <TerryT@BC.SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70338451: TERI
HATCHER
              One Dollar Bill
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0157_01BE6472.32C6EEE0"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0157_01BE6472.32C6EEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

your welcome
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jamee Jones <shore@MAUI.NET>
    To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU =
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
    Date: March 1, 1999 11:17 PM
    Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#70338451: TERI =
HATCHER One Dollar Bill
   =20
   =20
    Thankyou to whomever sent this to me!?  It's pretty neat!!=20
    jme=20
     =20
     =20

    Terry Thurston wrote:=20

        I saw this item for sale at eBay, i thought that you guys might =
like this=20
        Title of item:  TERI HATCHER One Dollar Bill=20
        Seller: chanhmle3@yahoo.com=20
        Starts: 02/22/99 20:17:50 PST=20
        Ends:   03/01/99 20:17:50 PST=20
        Price:  Currently $2.50=20
        To bid on the item, go to:      =
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D70338451=20

        Item Description:=20

        98degrees=20

         Teri Hatcher=20

         One Dollar Bill=20
        This one dollar bill has a picture photo of  Teri Hatcher=20

        nicely affixed over George Washington on a real, mint, =
uncirculated dollar bill-legal and negotiable. This dollar bill is =
permitted by the U.S. government. It is a very very cool collectible! =
Take a look for yourself at the picture below. This is what customers =
are saying about the Celebrity One Dollar Bills:=20

        I have received the celebrity dollar bill today...it is great! =
-- MJ=20
        My daughter loved the dollar bill I gave her.  It is a cool =
gift.-- SD=20
        Very unique item!  I'm satisfied! --KD=20
        The BRC dollar bill makes a very nice addition to my collection. =
 Thanks! --SL=20
        I have had many satisfied customers with this product!=20

        See your favorite star on a dollar bill. It makes a great gift =
for your friend or for you. You'll have lots of fun showing it off. It =
is a fantastic and unique collector's item, so collect now. Each bill =
comes in a clear plastic currency holder.=20

        SHIPPING AND PAYMENT=20
        Winning bidder will prepay with CASH, CHECK, OR MONEY ORDER. =
Buyers outside of the U.S. pays with International money order or U.S. =
cash only. Check will take 7-10 days to clear before shipping. Add $1.00 =
to shipping and handling. Thank you for bidding!=20

        =
*****************************************************************=20
        Please take a look at=20
        my other auctions for more Celebrity Dollar Bills.=20

                Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading =
Community at http://www.ebay.com

      =20

------=_NextPart_000_0157_01BE6472.32C6EEE0
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        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>your welcome</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Jamee Jones &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:shore@MAUI.NET">shore@MAUI.NET</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: =
</B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU">LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@=
LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</A>=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU">LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@=
LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>March 1, 1999 11:17 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: Interesting item =
on eBay=20
    web site item#70338451: TERI HATCHER One Dollar=20
    Bill<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Thankyou to whomever sent this to =
me!?&nbsp; It's=20
    pretty neat!!=20
    <P>jme <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;=20
    <P>Terry Thurston wrote:=20
    <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE =3D CITE>I saw this item for sale at eBay, i =
thought that=20
        you guys might like this=20
        <P>Title of item:&nbsp; TERI HATCHER One Dollar Bill <BR>Seller: =

        chanhmle3@yahoo.com <BR>Starts: 02/22/99 20:17:50 PST=20
        <BR>Ends:&nbsp;&nbsp; 03/01/99 20:17:50 PST <BR>Price:&nbsp; =
Currently=20
        $2.50 <BR>To bid on the item, go =
to:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D70338451=
">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3D70338451</=
A>=20
       =20
        <P>Item Description:=20
        <P>98degrees=20
        <P>&nbsp;Teri Hatcher=20
        <P>&nbsp;One Dollar Bill <BR>This one dollar bill has a picture =
photo=20
        of&nbsp; Teri Hatcher=20
        <P>nicely affixed over George Washington on a real, mint, =
uncirculated=20
        dollar bill-legal and negotiable. This dollar bill is permitted =
by the=20
        U.S. government. It is a very very cool collectible! Take a look =
for=20
        yourself at the picture below. This is what customers are saying =
about=20
        the Celebrity One Dollar Bills:=20
        <P>I have received the celebrity dollar bill today...it is =
great! -- MJ=20
        <BR>My daughter loved the dollar bill I gave her.&nbsp; It is a =
cool=20
        gift.-- SD <BR>Very unique item!&nbsp; I'm satisfied! --KD =
<BR>The BRC=20
        dollar bill makes a very nice addition to my collection.&nbsp; =
Thanks!=20
        --SL <BR>I have had many satisfied customers with this product!=20
        <P>See your favorite star on a dollar bill. It makes a great =
gift for=20
        your friend or for you. You'll have lots of fun showing it off. =
It is a=20
        fantastic and unique collector's item, so collect now. Each bill =
comes=20
        in a clear plastic currency holder.=20
        <P>SHIPPING AND PAYMENT <BR>Winning bidder will prepay with =
CASH, CHECK,=20
        OR MONEY ORDER. Buyers outside of the U.S. pays with =
International money=20
        order or U.S. cash only. Check will take 7-10 days to clear =
before=20
        shipping. Add $1.00 to shipping and handling. Thank you for =
bidding!=20
        =
<P>*****************************************************************=20
        <BR>Please take a look at <BR>my other auctions for more =
Celebrity=20
        Dollar Bills.=20
        <P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Visit eBay, the =
world's=20
        largest Personal Trading Community at <A=20
        =
href=3D"http://www.ebay.com">http://www.ebay.com</A></P></BLOCKQUOTE>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0157_01BE6472.32C6EEE0--
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:55:57 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/1/99 4:13:45 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM
writes:

<<
 I wish you wouldn't ask these questions, Charlotte <g> because you've made
 me dash off *another* very short fanfic, and I really need my sleep!
 Anyway, in very brief dramatized form, here's my answer:
 *** >>
Great post.  Sorry to disturb your sleep - NOT.

And here I thought I was making a great personal statement instead I find
the
writers were just messing up.

Re: <<Forget Me Not, Redux" though, if you'd like more resolution <g>>>

I already read that one and loved it too.  But that does not preclude me
from
enjoying parts of the wedding arc.  As I said once before, there are
wonderful
parts in the whole thing (the Clone's sacrifice comes to mind) but since you
mentioned Forget Me Not, I will dwell on the final two episodes in this
post,
Forget me not and Oedipus Wreaks.

First off  (Forget me not) who can not love the scene in Clark's apartment
when Lois begins to remember - Clark's 'sign.'  So many wonderful things,
not
the least of which - to me personally - is the bit about the cream sodas in
the refrigerator.  I had forgotten how much I love cream sodas and after
watching have given up colas which I only tolerated in favor of cream sodas.
(Hint hint to all of you - you can see how out of step with most people I am
here)

( The former soda comment is not OT because we all bring our own experiences
to the arts and that is one thing that makes them so wonderful)

And of course the flight with Superman afterwards when Lois says he's the
strongest man in the world but he has such gentleness in his eyes. Yes!!
That's my Superman and my Lois Lane would instinctively understand that
about
him.

Other wonderful touches: Clark stands on the tree outside her hospital
window,
Lois stands inside looking into a mirror wondering who she is.  Superman
tells
Lois, when she asks about Clark, that Clark has someone he can't live
without.
Strangely enough, Lois telling Max she's always wanted to fly.  (Too bad
like
Dan Scardino he never listened to her)  Later Superman tells her she was
always meant to fly.

Lois as reporter investigating like Nancy Drew, 'whoever she is.'  During
the
interaction between the two partners in Clark's apartment, Clark complains
that she always jumps in and she responds that he's always too cautious.
(Look it up on your tapes - I don't remember the exact dialog) Just Lois and
Clark being themselves and showing how their different ways made the
partnership work. I could go on but you get the picture.

Now for Oedipus Wreaks: I like Forget Me Not Redux because it uses the media
of literature to tell the story of Lois regaining her memory.  You can do
this
easily in a literary medium because you can tell the reader what the
characters are thinking and feeling in the story.  This is not so easy to do
in film, TV, and the performing arts in general unless you use asides like
Shakespeare did.  But the LnC writers chose to make use of the strengths of
a
primarily visual media to tell the same story.

Try to explain verbally Lois' memory coming back piecemeal and in a regular
procession during the flashbacks using words.  Much more difficult if not
impossible but it works visually.  Watch them sometime, forget everything
else
and just concentrate on the flashback sequences.  They start with the
earliest, probably most vivid subconscious memories, then progress in an
orderly fashion through 'Superman saving me a lot', then Superman kissing
her
and finally Clark kissing her and asking her to marry him as she remembers
who
he is.

Absolutely the most wonderful use of visual flashbacks I ever remember
seeing.
They (writers, producers, directors, etc.) chose some of the most telling
scenes from the show - the glimpse of Superman raising his head to look at
Lois all his love showing in his face, Lois at the window after the
engagement
with flowers watching Superman fly away, etc.

By the time Deter tries to hypnotize Lois into going to France with him, he
has already lost.  Clark is justified in telling Lois he won't let her go
with
Max because he knows her memory is coming back.  (He's had sufficient verbal
hints by now - what did you think the Heston as president discussion was all
about?)   Remembering is what she needs medically now, not running away to
France with a man who is clearly betraying his own profession and his
patient
for his own ends.

Note - Clark did not grab Lois and rush her out of the hospital at the end
of
'Forget Me Not' because she wasn't far enough along in her recovery.  What's
more he never forces her - he waits until she remembers herself.

In addition, the episode makes use of actions to tell the story simply with
little verbal elaboration.  Superman says 'Don't go anywhere' when Lois is
in
the car remembering. Clark gets down on the floor and says simply "I'm here
Lois, I'm here" when she is having the flashback at the Planet and calls for
help - to the wrong man, Max.  And Lois punches Max out - that's our girl -
then points and says simply, 'I'm back' near the end.

To make a long post finally end, I love this episode because it tells a
beautiful story using pictures and actions rather than words. It's not
better
than your story simply a different way of presenting the same thing.

P.S.  I do wish they had used the alternate ending scene that you use in
your
fiction.  Ah well, you can't have everything.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:05:11 EST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <GWalden@AOL.COM>
Subject:      All or Nothing Clark ;) was ( Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;)
(was
              Re: Touching))
Comments: cc: LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR
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At 08:42 PM 3/1/99 EST, The Zoomway wrote:
>If Clark was still *that* suspicious and untrusting of Lois, he should
*never*
>have proposed in the first place.

and Sheila replied:

>Except he wasn't that suspicious and untrusting of her.  His brain just
>quits functioning when Lois hurts his feelings  :P  I love Clark dearly; I
>think he's as close to a perfect male as any real female could stand, but
>there's no denying that he does some dunderheaded things.

I agree with both Zoom's and Sheila's descriptions and rationalizations of
Clark's actions.  I'm inclined to forgive both Lois and Clark any number of
stupid things because nine times out of ten, they're things they do for
love.
The tenth time is usually ABC's fault. ;) I think it's also true that
there's
a great consistency in the kind of stupid things Clark does. <g>

In the Pilot, he totally misses the significance of Lois at first accepting
his invitation to dinner to celebrate their success at stopping Dr. Baines.
After her guarded "don't fall for me, farmboy" speech, she's saying yes to
more than a colleague's suggestion that they pick up some Chinese before
getting back to work.  His voice softens when he asks, she hesitates and
then,
with the look of someone stepping off a cliff, she says, "okay."  It's after
she remembers her appointment with Lex.  But Clark is hurt, and lets his
disappointment lead him into saying things he has no reason or right to, and
well, you know the rest. ;)

In BatP, his hurt over her rejection of his declaration of love leads him
into
dangerous behavior - dangerous for both of them.  I'd be more upset with his
stone-walling Lois' overtures of friendship (which are pretty clearly rooted
in more than friendship, or she wouldn't be so despondent without him) if I
weren't so annoyed with her accepting Lex in the first place. ;)

In Resurrection/T:JO, he assumes that one great date and one fabulous kiss
mean that "she knows how I feel, and I thought I knew how she felt."
Although
I think he's very much at fault by not talking to her when she expressly
asks
him what's going on, I also have a little bit of sympathy for his reaction
to
Scardino being in Lois' apartment at night with her.  If she weren't in her
pajamas, and if she didn't seem to be hiding his presence from Clark - he
might not have made that extremely ugly remark. (And before Zoom jumps on me
for that, yes, I know he should have known better, and he seems to have
realized it too, since the next morning when he finds Scardino at Lois'
place, he makes no accusations, he just demands to know where Lois is.) He's
so edgy that when he meets Scardino at the cemetery as Superman, even being
in
the suit doesn't prevent him from behaving like a sulky child.  It's  the
same
attitude as when Lex appeared to save Lois from Menken in RfaS and with a
lot
less justification.

So,  by the time we get to the end of ATAI, Clark is tied up in knots, and
stupid behavior isn't just understandable, it's downright to be expected. ;)
For him, telling Lois the truth, declaring his feelings, proposing - it's
all
one and the same.  It always has been.  She's the first, the only woman, in
every way possible.   For her to say "not yet" - he just can't comprehend it
at first.  What possible reason could she have?  He expected anger at his
deception, he prepared for that, but he did not expect a "no."  He'd even
considered that knowing he was Superman would be a plus.

Yes, he should have told her about being Superman first.  He should know
that
she would say yes to Clark after all she's said and done.  That excuse
doesn't
wash (and we know who gets the real blame for it <g>) but he doesn't offer
that excuse at the time of the proposal. He drags that one up later, in the
parking lot argument, after he's had a night of wallowing in his hurt
feelings.
But whether you think it makes sense the way it was done (within the context
of the story's reality) or just have to chalk it up as another smudge on
"the
big picture" caused by a interfering network ;) - there is one thing I
believe.  Even if Clark had revealed himself first, things would have gone
pretty much the same.   He still would have proposed immediately, because
for
him Lois knowing and Lois becoming his wife are  inextricably bound up in
his
mind.  The idea of  "trying dating" would have been just as unlikely to
occur
to him as when Perry suggested it to Lois. ;)  And she still would have said
"not yet" because she needed time to get to know who he really was, and he
wouldn't have understood that at first.

So we would have ended up at the same place at the end of WHALTTA:  the two
of
them  floating across the face of the moon, Lois telling Clark that she
loves
him, and Clark promising to wait as long as she needed.  That's what being a
character-driven show is all about and why Lois and Clark, despite
everything,
"just works." ;)

Georgia
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:05:37 -0500
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From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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At 05:46 AM 3/2/99 EST, The Zoomway wrote:
><< Lois turns down his proposal of marriage in BatP>>
>
>Er... he didn't propose to Lois in BatP, did he?  I thought he just
confessed
>that he loved her?

No, you're right.  Because of Lex's proposal, I always think of Clark's
confession of love as his "counter-proposal", but it wasn't.  However, the
point remains that she rejected him, so he was hurt and acted very stupidly.

>I agree. Though, what makes them so alike again, is that Clark shut off his
>hearing  at "No", as you said, and then wasn't going to even permit an
attempt
>at an explanation or apology from Lois.  <snip>  In Just Say Noah, he talks
>about making his mistake with Lois in Contact, and "Bam" the door slams in
my
>face and the Supreme Court isn't hearing any appeals.  Lois probably felt
the
>same way in this episode ;)

I'd forgotten that, but that's one thing that I noticed that the show did
fairly consistently.  It portrayed L&C as two sides of the same coin:  for
example, their behavior when they felt rejected, the way they swapped roles
as comforter and comfortee :), their insecurities over being good parents,
etc.  It's one of those things that I am stunned by, particularly since the
show was under at least 3 different (teams of) exec. producers and had
innumerable writers, all with different visions of the characters (compare,
for example, St. John in "Fly Hard" and Minear in TTNBM).  Yet somehow, the
final product far exceeded the sum of its individual parts.  It achieved, as
one of my creative writing professors in college used to say, "organic
unity," that wholeness that belongs to a living organism, the same sort of
thing that makes a human so much more than just a disparate collection of
cells.

>To me, and admittedly
>it's a stretch, I think Clark's heart was so full of love at that moment,
he
>wanted to tell Lois how much he loved her *first*. To show her he wanted
her
>with him for the rest of  his life. That was the *priority* message he
wanted
>to send. *That* was what was important to Clark at that moment, and not
that
>he was Superman, not that he didn't trust Lois, but rather, what was in his
>heart.

Zoom, I don't see that as a stretch at all.  In fact, it seems like a very
reasonable explanation for what I saw as a puzzling behavior on Clark's part
because I never *did* buy his explanation that he needed to know that Lois
would marry him as Clark, not Superman.  I'm glad you mentioned that because
I'll probably use it in a fanfic someday :)

>But, as you said, Clark stopped
>listening at "No".  His whole attitude, demeanor, expression, body
language,
>everything, changed.  Lois lashes out, "Don't get petulant with me, *I'm*
the
>one who was lied too."  Clark lashes back, "Oh, so I'm not supposed to
*feel*
>anything?"  To Lois it's a trust issue, and to Clark it's a rejection
issue,
>but both are wonderfully miserable ;)

The part I liked is that both of them are being perfectly reasonable from
their own perspectives--and totally unreasonable from the other's.  It's
hard for me to write arguments because I have trouble seeing both sides that
way, but that was great stuff in WHALTTA.  Also, I thought Dean did a
terrific bit of acting in showing that reaction:  his change in attitude,
demeanor, expression, body language, everything.  Admittedly, I don't know
anything about acting (Hi, Demi :), but it sure worked for me.

>"You just can't turn me
>down. You can't."   Of course he couldn't, he never could. Great
>expressiveness from both Dean and Teri in that scene.  He looks at her as
if
>she's the most brave and amazing person on the planet, and he loves her so
>much.

Amazing scene.  Dean and Teri were so terrific.  Here we have a
comic-book-type situation with a guy dressed in tights and a cape, whose
breath can turn a person into a popsicle.  And yet, the scene between the
woman and the man who loved her was utterly real on a level that most shows
never aspire to, much less reach:  the courage and fear and love and
admiration and desperation was so true that it transcended what we normally
think TV is capable of.  Teri and Dean's pairing on the screen was . . .
inspired :)

Sheila
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:21:04 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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In a message dated 2/28/99 8:36:09 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Eraygun@AOL.COM
writes:

<<
 Eileen
 Eraygun@aol.com (Before you ask SOLMFOLC is Society of Low Maintenance Fans
of
 Lois and Clark and TDOFS is Tireless Defender of Fourth Season ;)) >>

Thanks for a great post.

By the way, I am on the fence here.  I love some parts of the NK arc, but
the
whole does bother me because it shows a Kryptonian society which is
definitely
not my vision. I am committed to the Democratic way of life in spite of it's
problems - there has never been before such a government by the people, etc.
as the USA's

Charlotte - who cheers and tears whenever she watches 1776 the musical -
what
a great thing our founding fathers with all their human flaws managed to set
up.

And who's ancestors included both peasants and aristocracy and she's proud
of
the legacy that both branches gave to her.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:21:36 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Location?
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In a message dated 3/1/99 2:03:52 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mhall@SOUND.NET
writes:

<<
 DC Comics is pretty coy about the exact location of Metropolis. I

 Misha >>
Thank you for this data.

O.K.  I'll admit it, having grown up in NY, in spite of all the evidence to
the contrary, Metropolis to me is NYand Gotham City to me was Chicago.  I
made
that decision years ago and I'm too old to change now.

Charlotte - impossibly stubborn and opinionated as ever.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:04:46 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: being nominated
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At 04:39 PM 3/1/99 EST, The Zoomway wrote:
>However, the
>whole experience last year made me understand those in "showbiz" who say
the
>real honor is in being nominated. It means someone saw what you did and
>thought enough of it to nominate you.  It's just very touching, at least I
>feel that way about it.

I agree, Zoom.  When someone is moved enough by my story that they still
remember it when Kerth nominations roll around, it makes me feel . . . like
I really accomplished something.  And when I see my name up there with other
people whose stories I love, I feel honored.

>Zoomway@aol.com (Congratulations to the nominees, and thank you to those
who
>nominated my story, I'm very flattered... and honored, doggone it ;)

Amen.

Sheila Harper
(even if my only nominations this year are for group projects, I'm still
honored.)
sharper@cncc.cc.co.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:54:35 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: being nominated
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Shelia wrote:
<Sheila Harper
(even if my only nominations this year are for group projects, I'm still
honored.)>

Shelia,
Don't you have a few nfics eligible for this year's nfic ceremony?  I only
found
about them a little while ago, so I don't know if they are eligible this
year or
not.  They are most certainly worthy of a nomination   JOY :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:01:05 -0500
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From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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Hi Charlotte :-)

>> And here I thought I was making a great personal statement instead I
find the
writers were just messing up. <<

Well, the writers were messing up, but OTOH, you were right, too --
it's absolutely not in Clark's character to force Lois to do anything she=

didn't want to do, and I'm sure that would have been a factor there.

>>  that does not preclude me from
enjoying parts of the wedding arc.  As I said once before, there are
wonderful
parts in the whole thing <<

The great thing about L&C is that there are good moments in every single
ep, no matter how much the rest might stink <g>  As you pointed out, ther=
e
was a lot to like in Forget Me Not, it's just that the WHAM at the end
totally ruined the episode for me.  If they'd had a happier ending, I'd
have enjoyed rewatching that one for many of the reasons you mentioned --=

including the ongoing "impulsive/compulsive" argument that L&C have in hi=
s
apartment (see previous versions of the same topic in GGGoH and OP) and
Clark's buoyance the next morning - "Beautiful day, Jimbo!  Lois thinks I=
'm
a jerk!" <g>

And I do enjoy rewatching *most* of Oedipus Wrecks.  Mrs. Johnson is way
too creepy for me, but the rest of the ep is great, and I really do love
the flashback sequences... there's so much to savor there.  My personal
favorite image might be just a shot of Lois turning her head, which took =
me
a while to place -- but it's from Lucky Leon, in the warehouse, and it's
Lois frantically looking for Clark.  I'm very glad they included that sho=
t,
because I think it so nicely encapsulates the theme of the episode ... Lo=
is
trying to get back to Clark...

Anyway, most of my problems about the ARRGH are firmly rooted in the
various idiocies of Double Jeopardy and Seconds, which I prefer not to ev=
en
think about...

PJ
who's trying to watch her blood pressure <g>

!^NavFont02F05D50023MGHHGVMGXHG69MG6BHH]MH_HH85MH87HLD6BC3E

  Pam Jernigan (jernigan@compuserve.com)
  ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
It's KERTH time!  Read all about it at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
~~~~~
Read L&C Season 6 (S6) at: http://tempus.simplenet.com/season6/
(I'd turn off the NavFont garbage if I could <sigh>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:17:40 -0500
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Pam wrote:
<And I do enjoy rewatching *most* of Oedipus Wrecks.  Mrs. Johnson is way
too creepy for me,>

Yes, she was creepy, but in a comical way.  I kinda liked that character, in
the
way that I like characters who are so obviously dumb/ hopeless/ feel wronged
by
the world at large.  They absolutely crack me up.  <g>  It kinda makes you
wonder if she is that way because of "Bad Brain" aka "Ruffus", or if HE was
the
way he was because of HER.  Just a thought.  Now back to work....  JOY :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:58:20 -0500
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From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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At 05:46 AM 3/2/1999 EST, Zoomway wrote:
(re Clark's proposal in ATAI)
>To me, and admittedly
>it's a stretch, I think Clark's heart was so full of love at that moment,
he
>wanted to tell Lois how much he loved her *first*. To show her he wanted
her
>with him for the rest of  his life. That was the *priority* message he
wanted
>to send. *That* was what was important to Clark at that moment, and not
that
>he was Superman, not that he didn't trust Lois, but rather, what was in his
>heart.

Oh, I *love* this explanation!   Of course Clark would think telling about
his love for Lois was *the* important thing at that moment, he's just that
kind of guy:)

>I think that's why he didn't mind at all offering the ring a second time in
>the Superman costume, she now knew the secret, she should just see him as
>Clark, regardless of the "suit", and that should be that.

Of course it should have been;)  (from Clark's POV).  He's been Superman
for years, his skills are old news to him.  They aren't important--*Lois*
is.

>To Lois it's a trust issue, and to Clark it's a rejection issue,
>but both are wonderfully miserable ;)

You got that right! <g>

>As I've said before, it was like programming from
>childhood "don't let them know you're 'different' or they won't like you"
So
>no matter *what* Lois really said, Clark heard something that only existed
in
>his own mind.

Also, it was more than that, if they found out he was different, they
wouldn't just not *like* him...they'd "dissect him like a frog"!

That kind of childhood fear kind of sticks with a person;)

>ATAI really accelerated things. ..."You haven't seen him Superman, he
*needs* me,
>and I have never needed you more than I do right now. You just can't turn
me
>down. You can't."...
>I think this changed everything for Clark in that instant.  It was no
longer
>necessary to play the dating game with Lois.  All he ever needed to know
about
>her, or would ever need to know about her, happened in those few minutes.

I have read any number of descriptions of this scene, in discussion and
fanfic.  The scene is always looked on as the pivotal point for Lois (even
by me<g>)  It hadn't occurred to me that it was a pivotal point for *both*
of them!  Now I'll have to rewatch ATAI and WHALTTA bearing this in mind:)

Shucks, what a shame, eh?  Forced to rewatch L&C<g>

Thanks Zoom.  You brightened up my day:)

Margaret
finally over the flu, I think:)

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:49:50 -0700
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From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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At 05:39 PM 2/28/1999 -0500, Margaret B. wrote:

[Snip many right-on observations...]

>What I remember from this season is Lois and Clark doing a lot of
>miscommunicating ... They seemed to spend a lot of time being victims, ...
>or the current villain ... or some past villain whose mission seemed to be
to create as
>much havoc in L&C's life as possible (e.g. Tempus and Lex).  Throughout
>season 4 (and much of the latter part of Season 3), I didn't see them so
>much as partners as fellow victims ("you and me against the world").  It
>didn't seem in character for Lois and Clark.
>
>I guess that's why I didn't particularly find the 'on the lam' part of DLW
>all that funny.  ... (the phonebook thick printout
>of the people that might want to get revenge on Lois, for example).  I
>didn't want a comedy team, I wanted Lois and Clark!

>Maybe that's my problem with the fourth season?  I wanted the 'real' Lois
>and Clark and what I got was angst-ridden comediens?
>
>Ack!  That can't be right.

IMO, you're absolutely right. I don't mind L&C's world revolving around
L&C... but on a private, personal level. I wish the bulk of the A plots of
the shows would have involved L&C investigating. working, earning money to
pay the rent and taxes, and let Superman right most of the wrongs. The B
plots could have shown us how an earth woman with her own problems gets
used to living with a guy who can do the dishes really fast :)

>I'm still pondering.

Pondering leads to fanfic :)

>Margaret

Debby
High-Maintenance Fan

debby@swcp.com
<ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/dstark> Stories
Keeper, Lois & Clark Nfanfic List

"Life was never meant to be a struggle; just a gentle progression from
one point to another, much like walking through a valley on a sunny day."
   --Stuart Wilde
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:43:45 -0700
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From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic challenge
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At 12:59 PM 2/28/1999 -0500, Joy S. wrote:

[snip intro and story...]

>(They separate and sit back on the couch and enjoy the food, wine, movie,
and
>most of all the company).

Very nice, very adult. I appreciate your understanding and love of the
characters. Keep up the good work!

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:56:38 -0500
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
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Thanks Debby.  <vbg>  That is such a great compliment coming from you.  I
have
really enjoyed reading your stories.  From the 14 word-long story, to the
300+KB
stories, you have done an excellent job writing fanfic.  I spent two entire
days
reading the 22 part Dawning saga.  I can't wait for the next one!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:09:56 -0500
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From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: being nominated
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At 04:54 PM 3/2/99 -0500, Joy N Sowell wrote:
>Don't you have a few nfics eligible for this year's nfic ceremony?  I only
found
>about them a little while ago, so I don't know if they are eligible this
year or
>not.

Not any individual works, Joy, although I hope two of the nfic round robins
are nominated because I think they came out pretty well.  1998 seemed to be
my year for group projects, from regular and nfic round robins to the TUFS
finale, Full Circle:  A New Day.  I did write one very long individual piece
(something over 200K), but it isn't eligible because it hasn't been
"published" yet:  it's one of the stories in the L&C fanzine that's coming
out this spring.

Sheila
sharper@cncc.cc.co.us
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:14:23 -0500
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Shelia wrote:
<but it isn't eligible because it hasn't been
"published" yet:  it's one of the stories in the L&C fanzine that's coming
out this spring.>

Well, there's always next year.  BTW, those round-robins are GREAT!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:45:41 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Always keep your bowler on in times of stress and watch out
for
              diabolical masterminds." <kubitc@KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Mrs Johnson

<<<And I do enjoy rewatching *most* of Oedipus Wrecks.  Mrs. Johnson is way
too creepy for me,>>>

< Yes, she was creepy, but in a comical way.  I kinda liked that character,
in
the way that I like characters who are so obviously dumb/ hopeless/ feel
wronged by the world at large.  They absolutely crack me up.  <g> >

I thought Mrs Johnson was great! Definately one of my favorite one-time
villains. (I wouldn't want to see her in more episodes but I loved her in
OW.)
My favorite line of hers was about how she hated waiting in lines, something
like- "sometimes you get there and discover that what you were waiting for
wasn't worth the wait. Don't you think so?" And how she directed the line at
Clark- LOL!

I also generally enjoy Oedipus Wrecks (after I fast-forward through the
beginning scene where Deter and Lois kiss, of course ;) It finally gets Lois
and Clark back together, Lois gets to punch Deter, and we get to see the DP
newsroom dance- what else could you ask for? In fact, OW and (the beginning
of)
INPY are the only clone arc episodes I will actually rewatch.

-Christy  ("Would you like a lard-filled log?" ;)
 kubitc@kenyon.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:54:46 -0500
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Christy wrote:
<My favorite line of hers was about how she hated waiting in lines,
something
like- "sometimes you get there and discover that what you were waiting for
wasn't worth the wait. Don't you think so?" And how she directed the line at
Clark- LOL!>

Classic!  Of course, we all know that it WAS worth the wait.  "Clark, it was
SUPER."
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:01:12 EST
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From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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Uncloaking from lurkdom again ;)

In a message dated 2/28/99 2:42:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:

<< I guess I saw a different fourth season than you did.  >>

That's a pretty sure bet ;).

<<What I remember from this season is Lois and Clark doing a lot of
miscommunicating (e.g. Brutal Youth, Dead Lois Walking, Stop the
Presses,etc.).>>
snip>>

Funny, what I remember from Brutal Youth was the fact that Clark's and
Lois's
love will transcend youth and physical appearance; that Clark's heroic
strength is as much spiritual as physical as evidenced by his willingness to
sacrifice his life for Jimmy; and that marrying Lois has given Clark a sense
of fulfillment and completeness, as reflected in those wonderful scenes in
his
apartment and in what will become their new home. But obviously, I loved
this
episode and the 4th season, and I guess how you see them depends on whether
you see the glass as half empty or half full ;)

I'll concede that there was plenty of miscommunication in STP, but since
that
episode involved L&C's first real fight as a married couple I think it's
allowed ;). And while I can't remember any glaring examples of
miscommunication in DLW, I don't think it matters if there were any, at
least
not to me. Just because Lois and Clark love each other and are complete
partners doesn't mean they won't fight. They're both passionate people with
strong opinions and that isn't going to change because they are married. I
just hope they fight fair ;).

 << They seemed to spend a lot of time being victims, of each other(e.g.
SLV,
Stop the Presses) snip>>,

Well, since I never considered either character to be perfect it didn't
bother
me if they made silly mistakes that came back to bite them. (To quote Lois
in
JSN "People mess up" <eg>). However, it seems to me that having Lois and
Clark
deal with either self inflicted wounds, or collateral damage from a *partner
meltdown*, was a regular pastime in all four seasons ;). For example, in the
first season, Clark, in both his personas, regularly shot himself in the
foot
in dealing with Lois. And an argument could be made that in BaTP and HoL,
Lois
was as much a victim of her own naivety and stupidity as she was of Lex's
duplicity, but I digress ;). The point is it never mattered to me that they
made mistakes, what mattered was the fact that they realized it when it
happened and made a point of learning from the mistakes they made.  That's
what I saw at the end of both S, L, and V and STP and that worked for me.

<< or the current villain (e.g. TTNBM, B&C&L&C, Toy Story), or some past
villain whose mission seemed to be to create as much havoc in L&C's life as
possible snip..., I didn't see them so much as partners as fellow victims
("you and me against the world"). >>

The reality of TV is that there is only so much time available in a one hour
show and introducing other characters to be the focus either of a story Lois
and Clark were working on or the attentions of the villain would have meant
less time to concentrate on Lois and Clark. Given that kind of trade off, I
didn't mind stories where our dynamic duo were the focus, They were the ones
I
wanted to see any way ;)

In addition, I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term victim, that
implies a kind of passivity to me, someone who is powerless or incapable of
fighting back against the forces that attack him or her. I don't see either
Lois or Clark this way so I prefer the term protagonist :). Yes, Lois and
Clark may have been under attack a lot during the 4th season, but they were
never passive. They didn't just stand there and whine about it they fought
back together, and they won ;)

<<I'm still pondering.

Margaret>>

Have fun ;).

Cheers,
Eileen
Eraygun@aol.com (a member of SOLMFOLC and proud ;))
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:59:25 -0500
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From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <gwalde14@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the 4th Season ( Was In Defense of the NK
arc)
Comments: To: "Lois and Clark:The New Adventures of Superman"
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At 10:09 PM 3/2/99 EST, Margaret wrote:
><<What I remember from this season is Lois and Clark doing a lot of
>miscommunicating (e.g. Brutal Youth, Dead Lois Walking, Stop the
>Presses,etc.)...snip>>

Eraygun replied:

>Just because Lois and Clark love each other and are complete
>partners doesn't mean they won't fight. They're both passionate people with
>strong opinions and that isn't going to change because they are married. I
>just hope they fight fair ;).
>

I was struck by this exchange and realized that I had some evidence to
offer. ;) Here's one of the blends I did from 4th season:

(B&C&L&C)

Superman: I want you to rethink this interview.
LL: Look, I know what you're going to say, it's going to be something very
sensible and very -
Superman: --true. Which is this: the second you see Gendell in person, you
become a target. And I don't know if I can stop him.
LL: This is the interview of a lifetime.
Superman: And I appreciate that. LL: Which is why I know you'll understand
when I say I have to do it.
Superman: <sigh> Then I guess we're gonna have to figure out a way to stop
Deathstroke by tomorrow at noon.

(SLV)

CK: I'm trying to protect what Superman is, what he stands for.
LL: If that's the case, then you're making a mistake ... they need to
believe in that mythic truth, that is what Superman in all about and that
is what you should protect above all else!
CK: And I will protect it, Lois. Because even in this cynical world,
somebody has to stand for integrity. And if that's what I say I stand for,
then I have to mean it.
LL: All right, fine. Then I guess I have until tomorrow to figure out who's
behind this and why.

Disagreement, yes, but that doesn't sound like miscommunication to me. :)

Margaret also said:
>I didn't see them so much as partners as fellow victims
>("you and me against the world"). snip >>

How is "you and me against the world" a bad thing?  The world usually lost.
;)

Georgia

>
gwalde14@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:14:10 -0500
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From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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At 09:01 PM 3/2/1999 EST, Eileen wrote:
>Uncloaking from lurkdom again ;)
>In a message dated 2/28/99 2:42:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:
><< I guess I saw a different fourth season than you did.  >>
>That's a pretty sure bet ;).

<g>  Gee, whatever made you think that?;)

><<What I remember from this season is Lois and Clark doing a lot of
>miscommunicating (e.g. Brutal Youth, Dead Lois Walking, Stop the
>Presses,etc.).>>
>snip>>
>Funny, what I remember from Brutal Youth was the fact that Clark's and
Lois's
>love will transcend youth and physical appearance; that Clark's heroic
>strength is as much spiritual as physical as evidenced by his willingness
to
>sacrifice his life for Jimmy; and that marrying Lois has given Clark a
sense
>of fulfillment and completeness, as reflected in those wonderful scenes in
his
>apartment and in what will become their new home. But obviously, I loved
this
>episode and the 4th season, and I guess how you see them depends on whether
>you see the glass as half empty or half full ;)

I also liked Brutal Youth.  I remember the first time I saw it, when
Superman flew "old" Jimmy in through the brownstone window--in that instant
I *knew* that this would be Lois and Clark's house.  I remember the "it's
the moments" speech too, and loved it.   Other than these two scenes, the
other scene I remember is one of Clark and Lois sitting on the steps of a
neighbouring brownstone having a "fight".  I remember Lois was extremely
upset through most of the ep, because she thought Clark knew he'd live
forever and hadn't told her.  Like I said, miscommunication.

>I'll concede that there was plenty of miscommunication in STP, but since
that
>episode involved L&C's first real fight as a married couple I think it's
>allowed ;).

You don't count the one in Brutal Youth?

>In addition, I'm not sure I agree with your use of the term victim, that
>implies a kind of passivity to me, someone who is powerless or incapable of
>fighting back against the forces that attack him or her. I don't see either
>Lois or Clark this way so I prefer the term protagonist :).

No, I *don't* see Lois and Clark as "victims", that's why their portrayal
in fourth season bothered me, I think.  It seemed like the writers *were*
portraying them as victims--the helpless victims of any number of
"villains", from the wedding destroyer (which took and angel to rescue them
from) to the announcement that they couldn't bear children (which never did
get resolved).

><<I'm still pondering.
>Have fun ;).

Well, if you say so<g>

It's not that I *hate* fourth season, it's just that I don't really like
it, and I'm still trying to figure out what it is that really bothers me.

As I said before, I deliberately taped over 'Operation Blackout' back in
second season.  It wasn't that I hated the episode, it just seemed like a
kind of useless one.  I didn't remember anything about it that would make
me want to rewatch it, and anything I did remember (like the flagpole
incident, which seemed like a stray clip from the twilight zone--what with
Lois falling 25 floors from her 3rd floor apartment, and all) didn't strike
me as anything I'd want to watch again.  I did get another copy later on,
primarily because I wanted a complete set of the eps.  I think I watched it
once again when I got the new copy.  Eh!  It's okay, but I'm not sure it
was worth the effort.

I kind of feel the same way about Season 4.  I have all the eps on tape,
mostly because I want a complete set.  I don't watch them because what I
remember doesn't make it seem worthwhile to make the effort.  The details I
do remember reinforce my negative opinion.  The odd clips I see of the
fourth season when flipping channels don't grab my attention enough to make
me want to watch the whole ep.  They still strike me as melancholy.  I
guess I was hoping for a happier life for Lois and Clark once they got
together;\

I've read other people's comments about why season 4 didn't quite make the
grade.  I can see their point--but the lack of depth of the background
action or the dark costumes aren't the reason I didn't cotton to the season
(to be honest I didn't even notice those things<g>).

I'm still not sure what it is that turned me off season 4.  I think it's
too complex for me to verbalize.  I know that I've not exactly loved
specific episodes in other seasons, but season 4 was different in that I
didn't really love *any* of the episodes.  Some were less painful than
others (like Soul Mates, Brutal Youth and AKA Superman).  However, there
are 22 episodes in a season.  In most other season's I'd love, or at least
like, at least 18 or 19 of them.  That didn't happen in season 4.  Liking 3
or 4 eps, out of 22, is not a good enough ratio for me;\

Well, that's all I know about why I didn't exactly fall for season 4.  I
still don't know what the problem is, exactly.  If I ever figure it out,
I'll let you know.

In the meantime, I should probably take Debby's advice and expend my energy
on fanfic<g>

Margaret

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:52:06 EST
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From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Mrs Johnson
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In a message dated 3/2/99 9:50:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kubitc@KENYON.EDU
writes:

<< "Would you like a lard-filled log?" ;) >>
I have always wondered, what exactly is a "lard-filled log"?  That has to be
one of the all time great lines.  GIven Clark's love of junk food, it's a
wonder he didn't say "yes, please."

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 05:38:44 EST
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Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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In a message dated 3/3/99 1:44:57 AM Central Standard Time,
brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:

<< Other than these two scenes, the
 other scene I remember is one of Clark and Lois sitting on the steps of a
 neighbouring brownstone having a "fight".  I remember Lois was extremely
 upset through most of the ep, because she thought Clark knew he'd live
 forever and hadn't told her.  Like I said, miscommunication. >>

Speaking as half of an "old married couple", there are times you wait for
your
spouse to "go first" because you think the ball is in his/her court. You
want
to give your spouse the benefit of the doubt.  In this case, Dr. Klein so
casually mentioned Superman's molecular structure giving him a kind of
ersatz
immortality, that to Lois, it sounded like something Clark must certainly be
aware of as well. As it turned out, Clark had no idea what she was talking
about until she told him.

This was a great scene in a lot of ways. Clark, who was trying to comfort
Lois, seemed just as devastated as she was when he heard the news. He didn't
want to be separated from her by "time" either.  It's this moment that gives
their scene in the windowsill such impact.  In between the scene on the
steps
and the one in the windowsill, is Lois comforting the "old" Jimmy.  After he
says, "I'm not *me* anymore," Lois assures him he is, and that what's on the
outside isn't why people love him. She glances up seeing Clark (as Superman)
standing there, and looks at him tenderly. She understands. Clark loves her
>from the inside out. He always will. His love is "forever".

>I'll concede that there was plenty of miscommunication in STP, but since
that
>episode involved L&C's first real fight as a married couple I think it's
>allowed ;).

You don't count the one in Brutal Youth?<<<<

I didn't see them *fighting* in Brutal Youth.  Lois was upset, Clark didn't
know why until she told him.  Once she did, she was still upset because
there
was nothing she could do to change the reality of the situation. It was
something she had to work out, come to grips with, or continue to let bother
her, but there was no *fight*.  There's no magic salve for that kind of
hurt.
It would and did take time.  These weren't shallow or trivial issues Lois
and
Clark were facing. This wasn't Lois and Clark chanting, "Guess so!" "Guess
not" The grade school scraps were long over. It's easy not to hurt deeply
when
the love and commitment isn't there.  Deepen any relationship, and the
stakes
are raised. I'm just glad Lois and Clark finally picked up the dice ;)

>>>No, I *don't* see Lois and Clark as "victims", that's why their portrayal
in fourth season bothered me, I think.  It seemed like the writers *were*
portraying them as victims--the helpless victims of any number of
"villains", from the wedding destroyer (which took and angel to rescue them
from) to the announcement that they couldn't bear children (which never did
get resolved).<<<

Lois and Clark, by that definition, have *always* been the victims of the
villains. Most of the plots were pretty basic throughout the run of the
series. Many of them were "get Lois" or "get Superman" and on rarer
occasions
Clark was tossed into the mix. Neverending Battle, Superman was the target.
Strange visitor, Superman was the target. Requiem for a Superhero, Superman
was the target, Green Green Glow of Home, Superman was the target, Man of
Steel Bars, Superman was the target (am I sensing a pattern here? ;)

In first season alone, Lois was almost blown up, thrown out of a plane,
nearly
suffocated in a vault, kidnapped, nearly shot, held hostage, dangled over a
drum of gurgling goo, tied to a post to await a tsunami, choked into
unconsciousness, nearly drowned in a giant fish tank, put in a garbage
masher,
put in a room with lethal gas, threatened with a branding iron,  throttled
and
dropped off a scaffold, and now, what happened to Lois *after* the
commercial
break <g>   In which season were they *not* victimized by the villains?

I won't argue that in some seasons Lois, Superman and/or Clark were targets
more often than in other seasons, but even in cases where they weren't the
*primary* target, the villain either factored in the reality of getting rid
of
Superman if his/her plan was going to work (Super Mann, for example) or Lois
and Clark (but almost always just Lois in the beginning) as "nosy reporters"
got too close to the truth, and so became a threat that had to be dealt with
by the villain (Honeymoon in Metropolis, and a host of others ;) and
sometimes
they were targeted as a special bonus prize (House of Luthor, for Superman,
ATAI for Lois, for example)

>>>I've read other people's comments about why season 4 didn't quite make
the
grade.  I can see their point--but the lack of depth of the background
action or the dark costumes aren't the reason I didn't cotton to the season
(to be honest I didn't even notice those things<g>).<<<

I have to admit I got a big laugh at the idea of Lois wearing darker clothes
4th season <g> Teri herself mentioned second season that she couldn't live
without her "weekly brown basing" from list members.  For a while, the first
two seasons, you could find Lois in any color, so long as it was some
variation of brown <g> That's an exaggeration of course, but Lois wasn't
outfitted in bright colors very often in any season. Might just have been a
personal taste thing with Teri, but I *do* know when Teri tried to splash
more
color on Lois, fans howled. It wasn't really the *colors* so much as the
styles or whatever, like her "ice blue" (looked silver) satin dress, the
orange dress with the offset white stitching, etc.  When Teri got the
raspberries for wearing those, she went back to muted colors, but like you,
I
really didn't notice what she wore.  Now, Dean.... ;)

>>>They still strike me as melancholy.  I
guess I was hoping for a happier life for Lois and Clark once they got
together;\<<<

I'm not sure how they ended up having an *unhappy* life?  I love my
marriage,
but to say it was always a bed of roses all the time would be a lie, though
admittedly I don't know what's so appealing about a bed of roses anyway ;)
I
loved when Lois and Clark had to work on "prioritizing", that they had a
darn
nice sex life,  that they didn't give up on the idea of having a child, that
they were soulmates, that even among his "own people" Clark only had that
instant sense of belonging with Lois. I loved that they play strip poker
(sure
grew up from monopoly and scrabble ;) But most of all, I love that two very
lonely people found each other, fell in love, and decided to spend the rest
of
their lives together.  It wasn't easy for them, but no *real* relationship
or
marriage ever is, but when it's great, it's certainly worth fighting for.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 03:02:48 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Supergirl Kent <supergirl_kent@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thanks there for helping this new gal here! :)

~Farah~

----Original Message Follows----
I believe the phrase IMHO is
In my humble opinion
or
In my honest opinion

Kismet

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Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:01:56 -0500
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Mrs Johnson
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<I have always wondered, what exactly is a "lard-filled log"?>

I always thought that it was a Twinkie. Anyway, I'd have said, "Why yes,
thank
you," because I love junk food even more than Clark does. <g>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:17:09 -0500
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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Zoomway wrote:
<I don't know what's so appealing about a bed of roses anyway ;)>

I agree, too many thorns. OUCH!<g>

<I loved that they play strip poker (sure
grew up from monopoly and scrabble ;)>

I'd like to think that they may have even played strip monopoly.  Boardwalk
with
2 houses?  That will be $500, a shirt, and 2 socks please.  Hey all you nfic
writers out there, Hint, Hint....
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:57:34 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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Prescript:  Okay, I worked on this for two days and I am going to send it
now
and then it's on to other topics for me.

LOL Charlotte

I am going to reply to your excellent respomse, then drop what may be
essentially a fundamental difference in opinion.  Beforehand, thank you for
your insightful opinions but we still do not agree.

In a message dated 3/1/99 12:01:14 AM !!!First Boot!!!, peabody@MCS.COM
writes:

<< I believe that Superman, as Clark, had shared some of his reservations
 about Lex with Lois, but she pretty much brushed off his concerns.
 Given Lois' feelings for Superman vs. her feelings for Clark at that
 time, she would have given more weight and consideration to something
 she'd heard from Superman than to something she heard from Clark >>

That's the point.  He did tell her of his suspicions- - and she didn't
listen.
So what if it was as Clark not Superman - I doubt that even Superman would
have been able to open Lois' eyes at this point. This is Lois after all - in
love she
might be - but she's still Lois.  That's why Lex had to blow up the Planet,
etc. Note
 too none of that made her marry him in the end.
You or I or Clark or even
Superman cannot force someone to see what he or she does not want to see.
 So I still think Clark acted in the only way he could.  I know that Martha
told him
he couldn't let her marry Lex but I don't think Martha had any more right to
tell Clark
 to make the decision for Lois as Clark had.

<<At the time Clark let Lois drive off with Lex, Lex was an escaped
criminal.  He was serving two life sentences, and was considered very
dangerous.  Letting *anyone* (even Nigel or Asabi) drive off with Lex
should have been completely out of the question.>>

Point to you on this one.  He should have never agreed to work with Lex
 to find Lois in the first place. But then I actually couldn't believe Lois
didn't
call the cops on Lex in the Phoenix when he came back from the dead.

However, this discussion and the others which I've read are not about
whether
Lex was a criminal but about whether Clark should have accepted Lois telling
him
she didn't love him and wanted to go with someone else in this case Lex.
That
is what I am writing about.

<<I'm also guessing that Lois' confusion upon hearing that statement
would have been enough to convince Clark that she wasn't thinking
clearly.  Her behavior up to that point: disappearing for days, not
contacting friends or family, singing for drinks in a seedy bar, and
calling herself Wanda Detroit (BTW, I love that name <g>)

 (OT if you haven't already read the True and Amazing Adventures
of Wanda Detroit by Nekanuq - do so asap great fiction)

<<That should have been a tipoff that she wasn't quite herself.  While
Superman would
never force an innocent person to do something they didn't want to do,
I could see him insisting that Lois allow him to take her to a doctor
or hospital.  And even if Lois had refused, and gone off with Red (the
cowboy-plumber) she would have been safer than she was with Lex.>>

This just reiterates our differences of opinion.  Of course he knew but that
still didn't
give him the right to force her to make a different decision.

<<I'll agree that an adult has the right and freedom to do whatever to
themselves, if they're making a clearly-thought out decision and
thinking normally.>>

This is exactly the point.  When you make that judgement about a person's
 actions - even if you think they are not themselves - you are taking away
their freedom.
 And that is only a step away from deciding that you know what's right for
them and
 eventually for others.  If you ever read anything from the viewpoint of
slavers you would
 know they will give logical explanations to show that they are doing it for
the good of the slaves.
 "They aren't smart enough or mature enough, etc. to make their own
decisions.
They would
starve in the real world."  I could go on and on with excuses as to why you
are better off if
 **I** make **all** the decisions for **you.**

It is a hard thing to do to let someone have the freedom to screw up but it
is
better
than deciding that you know better what they should be doing. That is the
road
to totalitarianism.

 <<It wouldn't be a normal action for the Pope or the Queen of
England to do the same, because it's out of character for them and
might be a sign that they weren't thinking clearly.  (I'm using the
Pope and Her Majesty here because Lois' daydream scene in FTASV has
brought them to mind--no disrespect intended  :)>>

Not a good example - so what if it's out of character?  The Pope and the
Queen
still have the right to do it and you and I have no right to decide for them
they shouldn't
because they are doing something out of character and therefore it's not a
'normal' action.

To the rest of you, I haven't even read anymore responses yet.  I will do so
and take
your comments to heart but I doubt that my opinion will change.

I know my beliefs on individual rights and concurrently individual
responsibility
are not that of the majority but they are mine.  My dad once told me, in the
50s I think,
'You younger generation don't know even what real freedom is.  When I was
growing up,
we were free.'  And he, like me, was a law-abiding, honest, hard-working
(he-
Italian born) American.
But we are/were law-abiding because it is the right thing to do, not because
of a law that tells us to.

Charlotte - who knows full well that letting someone do the wrong thing for
the right reason (namely it is their right) is infinitely more difficult
than
taking away that right and stopping them from doing the wrong thing - but
that
is what I believe freedom is all about.

P.S.  I do appreciate everyone's comments, but I would like to go on to
other
topics.

Did anyone notice that at the end of Tempus Fugitive , when Clark is
watching
his parents holding him as a baby, his Adam's apple moves as if he is
clearing
a lump in his throat?  I never noticed that before - checked my tape twice
afterward to be sure I saw it. That's why I will watch the episodes over and
over again as long as TNT or any other station airs them. Thanks, Dean, for
the great little addition to the story.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:16:59 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;), Tempus Fugititve
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Charlotte wrote:
<I am going to reply to your excellent respomse, then drop what may be
essentially a fundamental difference in opinion.  Beforehand, thank you for
your insightful opinions but we still do not agree.>

It is these fundamental differences of opinion that make reading these posts
SO
much fun.  If everyone saw everything eye to eye with no differing views,
life
would be boring.  To paraphrase a quote on the back of an old college text
book,
"to better understand another's view that differs from your own is to better
understand your own."  (Or something like that--"Opposing Viewpoints"
series).

<Did anyone notice that at the end of Tempus Fugitive , when Clark is
watching
his parents holding him as a baby, his Adam's apple moves as if he is
clearing a
lump in his throat?  I never noticed that before - checked my tape twice
afterward to be sure I saw it. That's why I will watch the episodes over and
over again as long as TNT or any other station airs them. Thanks, Dean, for
the
great little addition to the story.>

I never noticed that particular detail, but the episode had touching
moments.
Lois telling Martha that she'd take care of Clark, Clark holding baby Clark,
etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:39:35 EST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Mar Smith <MarBrian@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Question about TNT
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Anyone know what's upo with TNT?  this morning I saw an ad for a new show
that's coming on March 15 at 5:00pm.  Anyone know if L&C is getting a new
time
or what?

mariann
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:00:46 PST
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From:         Anne Simmonds <asimmonds@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Mrs Johnson
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JOY WROTE:
><I have always wondered, what exactly is a "lard-filled log"?>
>>I always thought that it was a Twinkie. Anyway, I'd have said, "Why
yes, thank you," because I love junk food even more than Clark does. <g>
>
IT could be a twinkie or could be those chocolate roles filled with the
white whipped cream?  Just MHO

Back to reading.....

Annobelle

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:03:56 PST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Anne Simmonds <asimmonds@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Zoomway wrote:
><I don't know what's so appealing about a bed of roses anyway ;)>
>
>I agree, too many thorns. OUCH!<g>

It would be nice if it were just the petals, that would be definately
cool and soft. Plus it would smell nice tooo <VBG>

>
><I loved that they play strip poker (sure
>grew up from monopoly and scrabble ;)>

>I'd like to think that they may have even played strip monopoly.
Boardwalk with 2 houses?  That will be $500, a shirt, and 2 socks
please.

I have played Strip hearts, but monopoly.....That would be interesting.
I wonder what one would do if they landed on Free parking?.........

Back to reading,
Annobelle

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:07:56 PST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Anne Simmonds <asimmonds@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question about TNT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

Mariann wrote:

>Anyone know what's upo with TNT?  this morning I saw an ad for a new
show that's coming on March 15 at 5:00pm.  Anyone know if L&C is getting
a new time or what?

I don't know...but they have switched the shows around so much that it
is making me dizzy<G> I hope it is after 5 maybe at 6.

Post ya all later...

Annobelle

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Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:07:55 -0500
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question about TNT
Mime-Version: 1.0
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mariann wrote:
<Anyone know what's upo with TNT?  this morning I saw an ad for a new show
that's coming on March 15 at 5:00pm.  Anyone know if L&C is getting a new
time
or what?>

TNT still has L&C listed on their website as airing in the 5:00 ET/PT slot
on
weekdays, at least for this week.  :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:09:34 -0500
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Subject:      Re: Mrs Johnson
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Annobelle wrote:
<IT could be a twinkie or could be those chocolate roles filled with the
white whipped cream?  Just MHO>

Yum.  Even better than twinkies. <g>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:14:12 -0500
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Subject:      Re: fun and games
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Annobelle wrote:
<I have played Strip hearts, but monopoly.....That would be interesting.
I wonder what one would do if they landed on Free parking?.........>

>From personal experience, as in the regular board game, per the offical
rules,
Free Parking is just that, free parking.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:24:20 PST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Anne Simmonds <asimmonds@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: fun and games
Mime-Version: 1.0
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You wrote

>>From personal experience, as in the regular board game, per the offical
rules, Free Parking is just that, free parking.
>

I know that.<G> My father came in second place out of all Ontario at a
championship one year.  Anyways, when my friends and I play we use Free
Parking differently.  All the money from the taxes and those kinda
things goes in the middle of the board, and who ever lands on Free
Parking gets all that money.  Its a fun way to play, not official or
anything, but fun

Annobelle

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Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:29:31 EST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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In a message dated 3/2/99 9:23:43 AM Central Standard Time, Cdfisler@AOL.COM
writes:

<< By the way, I am on the fence here.  I love some parts of the NK arc, but
the
 whole does bother me because it shows a Kryptonian society which is
definitely
 not my vision. I am committed to the Democratic way of life in spite of
it's
 problems - there has never been before such a government by the people,
etc.
 as the USA's >>

I think that was part of the point.  The "New" Kryptonians were unlikable,
the
"not like us" syndrome in full tilt here. I think that was deliberate. It
would have been a lot easier if they had been sympathetic characters who
desperately needed "Kal-El's" help.  If a hero starts judging the worthiness
of those in trouble before he decides to help them, is he truly a hero?  I
*knew* Clark would go with the Kryptonians.  I knew that since House of
Luthor
when he attempted to save Lex after he leaped from the penthouse balcony,
but
Clark was too weak save him.  Even earlier in Fly Hard, he saves Lex's life.
Keeps him from bleeding to death. It would have been easy for Clark to let
him
die, as Lois said herself in that episode, "Relax, Clark, you're not
Superman." Who would know?  *Clark* would.  The hero.

>>>Charlotte - who cheers and tears whenever she watches 1776 the musical -
what
a great thing our founding fathers with all their human flaws managed to set
up.<<<

I agree, though men still owned other men and would for a century yet, and
women had to wait a lot longer for the same rights and freedoms.  However,
that's part of my point too. Suppose the Kryptonians had been like our
country
in 1776, and still had slaves and the Kryptonian women had no say or no
rights? Would Clark be wrong to help them?  A good form of government, like
a
good marriage, is something that takes a lot of work, and the work *never*
stops.  It's not magic, it's not handed to you, you have to *earn* it.  Lois
and Clark *earned* every happy moment and milestone in their relationship.
They weren't Arnold and Michelle Sipkowitz ("ten years and never a cross
word")  or Tim and Amber Lake ("we never fight"), but neither of those
couples' love would inspire  "Utopia" either.

Lois and Clark were two people who had to navigate Hell to reach Heaven, and
because of that, Heaven was all the more precious to them.  They would fight
to stay there, because they've *seen* the alternative, and they'd fight to
stay together, because they've *lived* the alternative.  We saw less than
one
year of their marriage, their *first* year of marriage.  That first year is
usually tough for any couple, but toss in some "super" problems, and it's
real
high maintenance ... but worth it ;)

>>>And who's ancestors included both peasants and aristocracy and she's
proud
of
the legacy that both branches gave to her. <<<

My ancestors were probably horse thieves, or worse, politicians, but if I
ever
meet them in the "sweet by and by" the first one that tells me I spent too
much time obsessing about Lois and Clark, gets a punch in the nose ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:37:37 -0500
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: fun and games
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Annobelle wrote:
<Anyways, when my friends and I play we use Free
Parking differently.  All the money from the taxes and those kinda
things goes in the middle of the board, and who ever lands on Free
Parking gets all that money.  Its a fun way to play, not official or
anything, but fun>
That does put an interesting spin on things, especially if they were playing
Strip Monopoly.  Now strip Scrabble, hmm.  Oh, I know.  Everytime the
opponent
scores, the other strips a percentage of clothing relative to the points.  I
guess "chumpy" could qualify for triple points. <g>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:22:22 -0500
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      On the Run
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Does anyone out there know if the series "On the Run" by Plan9Lives was
continued past 54F?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:42:45 -0800
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From:         Audrey Rempel <audo65@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
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---Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM> wrote:
>
> Does anyone out there know if the series "On the Run" by Plan9Lives
was
> continued past 54F?
>

hi Joy,

I believe we're up to part 58C, posted this last weekend.  I highly
recommend this series, by the way.  Very gripping, although completely
frustrating as we wait for each installment ;)  And I think Plan9 is
away this week, so there may be nothing new until next week :(  Ah
well, I guess I can be patient... or not!

Audrey

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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:35:52 -0600
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Subject:      Re: On the Run
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Currently on the lois-n-clark fanfic newsgroup it goes up to 58C :)

Mandy :)

Joy wrote:

>Does anyone out there know if the series "On the Run" by Plan9Lives was
>continued past 54F?
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:55:33 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
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Audrey wrote:
<I believe we're up to part 58C, posted this last weekend.  I highly
recommend this series, by the way.  Very gripping, although completely
frustrating as we wait for each installment ;)  And I think Plan9 is
away this week, so there may be nothing new until next week :(  Ah
well, I guess I can be patient... or not!>

THANKS!!  Where do I find the parts after 54F?  I tried Plan9's e-mail
address,
but got no response.  (Of course if Plan9 is out of town that explains it).
I
figured at least one person out there would know how I can get caught up.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:27:44 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Audrey Rempel <audo65@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
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---Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM> wrote:
>
> Audrey wrote:
> <I believe we're up to part 58C, posted this last weekend.  I highly
> recommend this series, by the way.  Very gripping, although completely
> frustrating as we wait for each installment ;)  And I think Plan9 is
> away this week, so there may be nothing new until next week :(  Ah
> well, I guess I can be patient... or not!>
>
> THANKS!!  Where do I find the parts after 54F?  I tried Plan9's
e-mail address,
> but got no response.  (Of course if Plan9 is out of town that
explains it). I
> figured at least one person out there would know how I can get
caught up.

I read them on Zoom's message board at:
http://www.actwd.com/zoomway/general/welcome_to_the_message_board_are.htm
in the Fanfic discussion folder, October 1998 to present.

You can email me if you have trouble finding them, at audo65@yahoo.com

Ciao, and happy reading!
Audrey

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:59:22 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fanfic challenge
In-Reply-To:  <85256728.00836E86.00@MetMtaG2.metlife.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 06:56 PM 3/2/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks Debby.  <vbg>  That is such a great compliment coming from you.  I
have
>really enjoyed reading your stories.  From the 14 word-long story, to the
300+KB
>stories, you have done an excellent job writing fanfic.  I spent two
entire days
>reading the 22 part Dawning saga.  I can't wait for the next one!

Thank *you*, and thank all authors who try so hard and have such terrific
courage to put their work and heart out for all to see :)

Debby
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:47:34 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
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In a message dated 99-03-03 19:43:44 EST, you write:

<<
 THANKS!!  Where do I find the parts after 54F?  I tried Plan9's e-mail
address,
 but got no response.  (Of course if Plan9 is out of town that explains it).
I
 figured at least one person out there would know how I can get caught up.
  >>
It's posted on Zoom's fanfic list.....I assume you are having trouble
accessing it?   http://acreativetouch.simplenet.com/ff4_toc.htm
 If you can take links, e-mail me and I will send you one.
Kate
KCrane1865@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:05:02 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Alicia B. Ablola" <Kismet3838@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: TV Movie Petition
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No problem
=)

Kismet
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:29:39 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         April Story <AStory2873@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dean's Address
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<<Well, I'm not sure about the accuracy of it, but I found the following
>address on a Netscape Celebrity search.  The address I found was:
>
>11718 Darrington Ct. #513
>Los Angeles, CA
>90049>>

I know this thread is pretty much dead but I wanted to clarify something for
you all <g>

First off, it is Barrington Ct.    Also, this address is a Mail Boxes Etc.
address.

And you are probably wondering how in the world I know this - well <vheg>, I
have a friend that lives on the same street and knows exactly where this
address is.......so, is this Dean's home address - nope, its not.....

Sorry guys.....but I did wanted to lay to rest any and all suspicions that
might be out there <vheg>

Hope this helps some =)

Take Care!

April
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:27:04 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Eilonwy Jamison <astro_dwarf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question about TNT
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>Mariann wrote:
>
>>Anyone know what's upo with TNT?  this morning I saw an ad for a new
>show that's coming on March 15 at 5:00pm.  Anyone know if L&C is
getting
>a new time or what?
>
>
>I don't know...but they have switched the shows around so much that it
>is making me dizzy<G> I hope it is after 5 maybe at 6.
>
>Post ya all later...
>
>Annobelle

I don't know if this is just a rumor and if it is I'm really sorry for
posting it!:) I've heard from various sources that TNT is taking LnC off
the air on weekdays and replacing it with a new show.  When I heard this
I was so ticked at TNT because this time around I was going to finally
tape the whole season.  At the end of the first season I forgot to put
the tape in and now they aren't showing it anymore.  Maybe we can try
protesting or something like ou guys did with ABC!  Sorry if my rumor
proves wrong, and nobody go slit their throat over it either.  Well,
back to finding some more evidence to prove the rumor right or wrong! :)

Bye!

~ Eilonwy ~

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:10:11 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question about TNT
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Yesterday TNT definitely showed an ad for a new show "premiering Monday,
March
15 at 5:00".  While this doesn't look good for L&C, if I recall correctly,
when TNT first showed ER, it too premiered in the time slot for L&C and then
moved to 7:00.  so maybe they are just doing that again to get L&C viewers
to
watch the show.

I know what you mean about taping.  I was taping the premier, pt. 2 and all
of
a sudden they started showing a different episode in the middle.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:17:14 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Joy N Sowell <jsowell@METLIFE.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Kate wrote:
<It's posted on Zoom's fanfic list.....I assume you are having trouble
accessing it?   http://acreativetouch.simplenet.com/ff4_toc.htm
 If you can take links, e-mail me and I will send you one.>

Thanks Kate.  Audrey sent me the correct link last night.  There was an
extra
".htm", and it was causing a file not found error.  I finished them all last
night.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:41:05 -0700
Reply-To:     erink@ida.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Kerth Voting!
Comments: cc: lnc list <LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR>
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Hi FoLCs!  ;)

Well, it's finally that time again!  Voting for the 1999 Lois & Clark Fanfic
Kerth Awards officially begins tomorrow.  Have you read all those terrific
nominated fanfics yet?  <g>  If not, you'd better hurry up, because voting
only lasts for two weeks!  :)   The official voting dates are:  Saturday,
March 6th - Sunday, March 21st (ends at midnight EST).  But if you happen to
vote today, the day before the polls officially open, I won't complain.  <g>

*MANY* thanks to Demi and the fanfic archive staff for preparing the ballot
and making space for it on their site!  It's up and ready to go at:
http://lcfanfic.actwd.com/kerth-vote.htm

BUT WAIT!!  Before you vote, make SURE you go to my Kerth site
(www.ida.net/users/davek/kerths.html) and read through the voting procedures
and the voting "Frequently Asked Questions".  If you don't, don't come back
to me later and say, "Oh, I didn't know that I couldn't do that..." because
I won't be listening.  <g>

And just so you can't say I didn't tell you, here's a quick recap on the
voting rules that are on my Kerths site:
_______________________

*CAN ANYBODY VOTE?  Yes!  All FoLCs are invited to vote for their favorite
stories using the automated voting ballot mentioned above.

*HOW DO I VOTE?

1) First of all, read all the nominees that you can.  (Great excuse to read
all those terrific LNC fics out there, huh? <g>)  Then decide which stories
you're going to vote for in each category.

2) Once you have your choices, go to the automated voting ballot on the
fanfic archive and submit your votes.  That URL is:
http://lcfanfic.actwd.com/kerth-vote.htm  BUT! -- each person will only be
allowed to submit ONE ballot.  Even if you only submit a partial ballot, you
WILL NOT be allowed to submit another one.  Anybody who submits multiple
ballots will have ALL of their votes thrown out!  If, however, you make a
mistake on your ballot, you can email me at:  erink@ida.net   and explain to
me what happened.  Other than that, you're stuck.  :)

*CAN I VOTE FOR MORE THAN ONE STORY IN A CATEGORY?       NO!  Sorry, I know
it's tough.  :)  But unlike the nominations, each person will only be
allowed to vote for one story per category.

*CAN I VOTE FOR A STORY IN MORE THAN ONE CATEGORY?  (like in "Best Drama"
and then again in "Best Overall Fic")  Yes, *IF* the story is a nominee in
both of those categories.

*WHAT HAPPENS AFTER I VOTE? During the two weeks of voting, a running total
of the votes will be kept by the members of the voting committee.  At the
end of the voting period, the vote tabulating committee will check and
double check the vote count until we're able to determine the winners.  Then
those winners will be announced on our Awards ceremony on IRC on Saturday,
March 27th at 6PM EST!!  It's going to be a TON of fun, if last year was any
indication, so be sure to join us!!

*HOW DO I JOIN IN ON THE IRC CEREMONY? If you are not familiar with IRC, go
to my LINKS PAGE (www.ida.net/users/davek/links/html) and scroll down until
you get to the section on IRC.  There you will find a link to the website
where you can download the software (called mIRC) needed to get on IRC.
After you download it and install it (a very easy task, btw :), open up the
program and double-click on an UNDERNET server from the long list available
in the "setup" folder.  Once it connects you, voila!  You're ready to join
in on the fun!  You just have to type in the channel name of the Awards
ceremony channel (not yet known for sure) in the window that pops up.  If
you want to practice using IRC before the ceremony, join us FoLCs in
#loiscla.  We hope to see you there!!  :)
_______________________

There!  ;)  I hope that answers everyone's questions.  I hope to see you all
submitting your votes over the next two weeks.  Remember, YOUR votes will
determine the winners, so make sure you participate!

Bye for now!

Erin  :)
_________________
erink@ida.net
ELK on IRC
It's Kerth Awards time!!
Visit my 1999 Official Kerth Awards Website!  http://www.ida.net/users/davek
                   *****
"No one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the years that count,
it's the moments...right now, as they happen."
_________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:45:24 -0700
Reply-To:     erink@ida.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Kerth voting-- early notice
Comments: cc: lnc list <LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Oops!  <sg>

Well, that Kerth voting email wasn't supposed to go out to everyone until
tomorrow, but I just accidentally sent ALL the emails in my outbox instead
of saving that one until tomorrow.  That's what I get for actually being
organized for once in my life and preparing that long email a couple of days
before I actually needed to send it out. <g>  Oh, well.  You all get the
news just a day early, I guess!  :)

Erin  :)
_________________
erink@ida.net
ELK on IRC
It's Kerth Awards time!!
Visit my 1999 Official Kerth Awards Website!  http://www.ida.net/users/davek
                   *****
"No one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the years that count,
it's the moments...right now, as they happen."
_________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:13:59 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: On the Run
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In a message dated 99-03-04 12:12:25 EST, you write:

<< Thanks Kate.  Audrey sent me the correct link last night.  There was an
extra
 ".htm", and it was causing a file not found error.  I finished them all
last
 night.
  >>
you're welcome, glad you were able to access our favorite serial!
Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:10:59 -0700
Reply-To:     erink@ida.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Where to read the Kerth Nominees
Comments: cc: lnc list <LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Okay...third times a charm. <g>

Since my info was sent out early, I might as well send out this reminder
early, too. ;)  For those of you who don't know, all the nominees' stories
can be accessed through Genevieve's site:
http://www.erols.com/nightsky/Kerths/kerth99.html

Thanks for getting all those on your page, Genevieve!  And for those of you
who haven't been there yet, go there to read all the nominees!

Okay, now I really *am* going to leave you all alone... <g>

Erin  :)
_________________
erink@ida.net
ELK on IRC
It's Kerth Awards time!!
Visit my 1999 Official Kerth Awards Website!  http://www.ida.net/users/davek
                   *****
"No one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the years that count,
it's the moments...right now, as they happen."
_________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:03:24 -0500
Reply-To:     x-lander@geocities.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Mark Safransky <x-lander@GEOCITIES.COM>
Subject:      [Fwd: Superman Lives Shelved]
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Subject: Re:      Re: Superman Lives Shelved
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:43:15 -1000
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Greetings , Aloha, and A Sigh,

As I lie supine with the smelling salts,  I negligently lift a hand to wipe
a bead of perspiration from my forehead.  It is finally done, superman
lives, has died.  However for those of you who want more than just a peek at
what might have been, check out the screenplay for Superman lives on the
Movierama Scripts page.  Of course it's not a kerth nominee but it seemed
pretty good to me.

And totally off the subject, Highlander 4 goes into production soon. release
date is targeted for July 2001.

I shall now console myself by logging into zoom's site and receiving my
regular fix of fan fic.  It's nice to know that some things will always be
there for you , oh the little things that bring us consolation in the face
of chaos, change, and contract negotiations.  Zoom, Cyrstal Wimmer, Dawn and
Mandy and all of you marvelous fans out there, Aloha Oe from Hawaii.

As I cuddle my 18 inch stuffed superman dolly and Zauber the wonder cat
curled at my side.

Mahalo nui loa
Jocelyn  :O) LOL ( a wink and a smile:)

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Safransky <x-lander@GEOCITIES.COM>
To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Superman Lives Shelved

>Wendy Richards wrote:
>
>> Jenny Stosser wrote:
>>
>> >"So, I guess you can all let your collective breath out, because
>> >SUPERMAN LIVES, for now, ain't flyin' nowhere."
>>
>> Well I, for one, and very glad that is confirmed - I couldn't stand
>> the thought of Nicholas Cage as Clark Kent  (yuck...eeewwww!!!) and I
>> wouldn't even have been able to sit through trailers, let alone see
>> the film. As for what I had read about the script... well, let's say
>> it's just as well it's not happening.
>>
>
>I hate to be the bearer of bad news, or good news, the messenger always
>seems to get it in the end.  Anyway, word out of lala land is that the
>Superman movie is in preproduction still.  Tim Burton is no longer going
>to direct although Nicholas Cage is still onboard as Supes.  The script
>is apparently finished and they are shopping around for a new director.
>More when I get more info from my snitch on the lot.
>
>Mark
>

--------------479426A981963A0B44C52C09--
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:34:55 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
In-Reply-To:  <199902282313_MC2-6C32-E896@compuserve.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:13 PM 2/28/1999 -0500, Pam J. wrote:
>Charlotte wrote, reacting to something Pat said about Clark letting Lois
>drive off with Lex at the end of DJ:
>
>>> I guess it's about time, I put MHO on this.  Everyone seems to think
>this was
>wrong, but I don't.  What did you want him to do? <<
>
>I wish you wouldn't ask these questions, Charlotte <g> because you've made
>me dash off *another* very short fanfic, and I really need my sleep!
>Anyway, in very brief dramatized form, here's my answer:
>***

Snip another great fanfic by Pam, one that describes a *much* better result
for the first meeting between Wanda, Clark and Lex near Bibbo's Bar.

I, too, have been thinking about the argh again lately and (not
withstanding I've rewritten it already to take into account abc's desire to
prolong the misery...) I've thought of a way that CK could have dealt with
things even sooner.  Remember back when Luthor summoned Superman to the
park?  Before Luthor found out from the clone (rhymes with groan) that
CK=Sman?

Luthor and Superman chat and Luthor shows Superman the controls to a bomb
that he will activate if Superman tries anything funny (as in tries to stop
Luthor).  My new scenes would be...

Superman looks confused, afraid, overwhelmed, defeated - just as Luthor
expects. But it's a subterfuge. Superman is waiting for Luthor to relax a
bit, which he does as he grows more confident.  Sensing the relaxation and
that Lex has removed his thumb from the switch, Superman plucks up Luthor
by the lapels and they zoom together into the sky.

"You might reconsider throwing that switch," Superman says conversationally.

"Reconsider *nothing*! Watch me!"

"No, *you* watch. We're 5,000 feet and climbing over Metropolis at the
moment," Superman says, continuing in the same pleasant tone of voice.
"Flip the switch and I'll be forced to leave you here to rush to
investigate the damage you've done."

Luthor, his thumb on the switch now... hesitates. "You wouldn't, you're a
boyscout, you'd never purposefully hurt anyone!"

"No, *you* watch *me.*" Superman looks at his arch enemy with steely calm
eyes. "It is true I will never willingly hurt anyone, but gravity might and
that's a force more powerful than I am. I also must tell you that lately
I've noticed that you are causing considerable grief for two of my good
friends and I for one have had just about enough of it. Now, if you were to
set off your bomb and I took you to the police before I dealt with the
damage, would you stay with the police? Given your record, I rather doubt
it."

"Heh..."

"So I'm simply dealing with you here and now and I'm sure the police, the
state of New Troy, the army, and the president will completely understand.
Now you will tell me where Lois Lane is."

"And if I don't..."

"We'll just stay up here at about... 10,000 feet. After a while, I'll get
bored and head higher, maybe 35, 000 feet. Did you know that I can hold my
breath a very long time?"

"You wouldn't do that..."

Superman smiles, a very slightly insane glint in his eye. "Wouldn't I?"

Luthor smiles. "I'll tell you where she is then."

"Good idea. Tell me. I'll leave you here and check. If she's okay, I'll
come back for you before you become reacquainted with the..." Looks down.
Sees tiny luxury liner. "Oh, with Hobbs Bay. If she requires help, I'll
help her as fast as I can. If she is hurt, I'll take her to the hospital.
If she is dead... I'll be grief stricken for my friend Clark and I may
forget what I've been doing. If she's not where you say she is, we'll start
all over again. Understand? It's very simple..."

"Yes... She's in a warehouse on the east side of town..." Luthor gives
Superman instructions and, true to his word, Superman leaves Lex where he
is to wait. Gravity plays with Luthor.

After the second time Superman has followed Luthor's instructions, Luthor,
having been caught at about only 200 feet above the slimy waters of Hobbs
Bay, is as white as a sheet and has lost is lunch and breakfast, too.

Superman is all smiles (with a greater hint of maniac). "This is fun! Tell
me somewhere else to check. Make it some place with bagels. I'm hungry!"

As they say, the third time is the charm. Superman finds Wanda and that she
is basically okay and can be left where she is. He catches Luthor,
handcuffs him with rebar, turns him over to Inspector Henderson, the best
cop on the force, and retrieves Lois, taking her to the nearest hospital.
After he leaves, Clark Kent turns up to keep a close guard on his
wife-to-be...

***

Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or Superman's
reaction to Gates in Contact. I think CK should have been far more
protective of his loved ones than he was shown to be... thus my preference
for Pam and my versions :D

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:14:49 -0600
Reply-To:     mfwillia@flash.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         WILLIAMS <mfwillia@FLASH.NET>
Organization: THE SKYWATCHER
Subject:      Re: Nightmare on Hyperion Avenue
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I cannogt find Nightmare on Hyperion Avenue anyplace.  Please send me a
copy.

Jacqueline
mfwillia@flash.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:38:40 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Martha Rasch <mrasch@IXC.NET>
Subject:      Re: [Fwd: Superman Lives Shelved]
In-Reply-To:  <36DF2D5B.3504542E@geocities.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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        Do you have the URL for the Movierama site where we can find that
script.
I went looking for it and was unable to find the script you mentioned.
Thanx in adavace for your help,
Martha Rasch

*Snip*
<<It is finally done, superman
lives, has died.  However for those of you who want more than just a peek at
what might have been, check out the screenplay for Superman lives on the
Movierama Scripts page.  Of course it's not a kerth nominee but it seemed
pretty good to me.>>

<<Jocelyn  :O) LOL ( a wink and a smile:)>>
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:17:53 +0000
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Debby and the Aaaargggghhhh!
In-Reply-To:  <4.0.2.19990304065421.008cba50@swcp.com>
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On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:34:55 -0700 Debby <debby@SWCP.COM> wrote:
 I've thought of a way that CK could have dealt with
> things even sooner.  Remember back when Luthor summoned Superman to the
> park?

[snip Debby's hilarious Lex-and-Superman-in-mid-air scene - I really
loved it, by the way, Debby!]

I wondered at the time why Superman didn't just freeze Lex's device.
Surely that would have rendered it inoperable, and he could then have
dealt with Lex in any way he felt appropriate.

Of course, then the aaarrgggghhh would have been over too soon for
TBTB...

Wendy

----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:20:08 +0000
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Wendy Richards <ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
In-Reply-To:  <4.0.2.19990304065421.008cba50@swcp.com>
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On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:34:55 -0700 Debby <debby@SWCP.COM> wrote:
>
> Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or Superman's
> reaction to Gates in Contact...

Gates, Debby?  Fences, surely  ;)

And I'm sure that resemblance to any real person, living or deas, was
entirely unintentional...   <G>

Wendy

----------------------
Wendy Richards
w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:30:07 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
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In a message dated 3/3/99 8:51:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Zoomway@AOL.COM
writes:

<<
 My ancestors were probably horse thieves, or worse, politicians, but if I
ever
 meet them in the "sweet by and by" the first one that tells me I spent too
 much time obsessing about Lois and Clark, gets a punch in the nose ;)

 Zoomway@aol.com >>

Thanks for the post.  I suspect there were a few of those among mine too.
Too
bad they weren't successful crooks.  If they had been,  maybe I could buy
TNT
and play Lois and Clark all day.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:44:54 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
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In a message dated 3/5/99 10:28:15 AM !!!First Boot!!!, debby@SWCP.COM
writes:

<<
 Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or Superman's
 reaction to Gates in Contact. I think CK should have been far more
 protective of his loved ones than he was shown to be. >>

Loved this.  And I don't think it would have been out of character either.

Debby. Thanks so much for all the comments.

I did read your great rewrite of the arc.  And I love all the new ideas
about
ways to correct the 'problems' in the show.  Even though I am defending this
point, I love the fanfiction alternatives, every last one.

Sigh I know the whole thing was not the best choice (? - ok maybe it was the
worst choice of sequences) but you have to give the shows writers and
producers artistic license to write the episodes as they see things or you
never get anything produced. After all fanfiction writers take that same
right
when they write fiction.

With all it's fault the arc gave us many wonderful moments - that is what
makes it something I still watch.  And that is true about every single Lois
and Clark episode IMHO.

Charlotte

P.S. I am sorry I still haven't sent you my detailed comments on the Dawning
series.   As soon as I reread the first few episodes, I had to jump to
Dawning9 and 10, then back to 8, etc. The addition overtook me and I had to
restart from the beginning and reread every single episode.  I am currently
up
to Dawning 15-16. This is IMO the hallmark of a great story/series, when you
can read it and reread it months, even years later and still get more out of
it.

Oh shut up Charlotte.  It would take another full length novel to tell about
everything that is so great in the Dawning series. But I will try.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:17:17 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         James Tull <mr_d8a@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      NK Arc:  Worst line in L&C History
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Although I personally love the NK arc (I love to cry!),  I must point
out that it includes the worst line in all of Lois and Clark.

Just as Superman is flying off with the Kryptonian people, Jonathon
Kent turns to Lois and says "Dearest, Lois..."  Now I know they're
practically family at the time, but "Dearest" seems a little bit much.
 I laugh every time I hear it (actually, the hubby and I laugh every
time we even mention it.)

You would think one of the actors would question a line like that.
What were they thinking?

Elisabeth
Visit my home at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/7859

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:50:15 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Mandy Crustner <mandyc@LCC.NET>
Subject:      Re: NK Arc:  Worst line in L&C History
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Elizabeth wrote:

>Although I personally love the NK arc (I love to cry!),  I must point
>out that it includes the worst line in all of Lois and Clark.
>
>Just as Superman is flying off with the Kryptonian people, Jonathon
>Kent turns to Lois and says "Dearest, Lois..."  Now I know they're
>practically family at the time, but "Dearest" seems a little bit much.
> I laugh every time I hear it (actually, the hubby and I laugh every
>time we even mention it.)
>
>You would think one of the actors would question a line like that.
>What were they thinking?

I'll forgive them for the 'Dearest' because we get the wonderfully WAFFy
line..." A love that risks nothing is worth nothing." :)

Mandy :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:16:14 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: NK Arc:  Worst line in L&C History
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I definitely agree....I cringe every time I hear that ridiculous line <g>
"Dearest Lois, you too will find a way."  Gimme a break, do we really think
that Jonathan, farmer that he is, would speak words like that?
My husband comes from a farming family and anyone talking so lyrically would
be laughed out of the room.
Those words were the only sour spot in a heart-breaking scene.  I found
Lois'
reaction very realistic, so why did they blow it with Pa Kent?  I would
think
he would be just as grief-stricken and unable to do more than hold up the
women folk and not know what to say.
But oh, the ending scene with Lois at the window hearing Clark's
reassurances
of love..........now that would be comforting to a grieving heart.
Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 06:51:44 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Debby and the Aaaargggghhhh!
In-Reply-To:  <SIMEON.9903051353.A@pc14.hrm.keele.ac.uk>
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At 01:17 PM 3/5/1999 +0000, Wendy wrote:

[snip gracious response to my what-if scenario showing that Lex's long-time
vexing of Superman finally paid off... much to Lex's horror]

>I wondered at the time why Superman didn't just freeze Lex's device.
>Surely that would have rendered it inoperable, and he could then have
>dealt with Lex in any way he felt appropriate.

Good question! Superman froze the love of his life twice, why not freeze
his enemy's hand? Why do we have to think of all these better solutions?
Did Superman, like Teri suspected of Dean on first site, have a great bod
but not a lot going on upstairs?

>Of course, then the aaarrgggghhh would have been over too soon for TBTB...

The Blunderers That Be, I agree. We might have gotten 5 episodes worth of
wedding planning and honeymoon... heaven forbid!

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 06:53:45 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re: Touching)
In-Reply-To:  <SIMEON.9903051308.B@pc14.hrm.keele.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:20 PM 3/5/1999 +0000, Wendy wrote:
>On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:34:55 -0700 Debby <debby@SWCP.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or
Superman's
>> reaction to Gates in Contact...
>
>
>Gates, Debby?  Fences, surely  ;)

Whoops! Yes, sorry :)  And I'm one of the few people who rather likes
microsoft products and can heartily recommend installing Win98 over Win3.11
:) (98% of my computer problems are hardware related anyhow, not program
related...)

>And I'm sure that resemblance to any real person, living or deas, was
>entirely unintentional...   <G>

Interestingly (I think...) the superstar of software is married and they
have a daughter, as in one incarnation (5th/6th season) of L&C...

Debby :)
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:32:32 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Debby & the ARRGH
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
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>> Superman is all smiles (with a greater hint of maniac). "This is fun!
Tell
me somewhere else to check. Make it some place with bagels. I'm hungry!" =
<<

ROFL, Debby!  I wouldda paid money to see that...

>> Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or
Superman's
reaction to Gates in Contact. <<

And I believe he did drop Dillinger from the roof of the movie theater on=
ce
or twice, didn't he?  With not nearly as much at stake, as I recall...

PJ

!^NavFont02F0178001DMGJHG7CMG7EHGA6MGA8HHGMHIHH79B0A0
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:28:01 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      L&C Fanfic Writing Session Saturday, March 6, 1999
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi Everyone,

Now that skip week is over, we hope you can join us week for our regular
fanfic writing session, on Saturday March 6, 1999. This week's premise:

An innocent looking artifact from Krypton begins to strip away Clark's
humanity and unless Lois can find a way to stop it she may lose the man she
loves forever.

We would still like to hear from you if you have any story premises of your
own that you would like us to explore together.  You can either email them
to
me at:

        eraygun@aol.com

Or better still, just bring your ideas with you when you join us this
Saturdayor for our weekly "story bouncing" sessions on Wednesdays
on#L&CFicOrg, starting around 9:00 PM EDT.

We generally meet Saturdays starting at 3 PM EDT and try to start writing
fairly soon thereafter.  You can come and join the fun at any time, however.
We are usually there for several hours since writing a story takes time.

Since #L&CFanfic is on occasion "invite only" please message if you want to
join us.  If an official "inviter" is designated, we will let you know.
Some
of us should be hanging out on #Loiscla.

A note on procedure here ;) : When people need to be caught up on the story
in
progress after being bounced off IRC or just joining the session late,
please
try and avoid pasting the story directly into the channel window.  Please do
that in a private message or dcc-chat window instead.

Hope to see you all there!

Cheers,

Eileen
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:29:02 EST
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
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In a message dated 3/5/99 11:08:21 AM Central Standard Time,
ida18@HRM.KEELE.AC.UK writes:

<< I wondered at the time why Superman didn't just freeze Lex's device.
 Surely that would have rendered it inoperable, and he could then have
 dealt with Lex in any way he felt appropriate. >>

I'd think Lex, of all villains, would have a device constructed with
Superman's "bag of tricks" in mind. After all, Lex is the villain who got
the
better of Superman throughout all of first season.  Not that it mattered
really since Clark/Superman had two operating modes most often with
villainous
devices. He'd either take no provocative action, as in Fly Hard,  not even
attempting to take (at super speed), freeze, melt or otherwise render the
device harmless, or, the other extreme, he'd act impetuously, not
considering
the consequences of what the device would do if he used his powers against
it.
Like arming a nuclear warhead *before* he knew it wasn't exactly a "piece of
cake" to disarm <g>

Another problem with Lex, unfortunately, is that once he proved himself
suicidal in first season, and then again in second season in The Phoenix by
trying to electrocute himself, I have this feeling that death threats
wouldn't
work on him.  However, even if they would, Lex *knew* Superman's "weakness"
(as only Lex would deem compassion) "he cares".  He knew Superman wouldn't
kill him. Besides, I have this creepy feeling if Superman ever did kill Lex,
Lex would see that as the ultimate victory over the "hero" even if it was a
victory that cost him his life.  The biggest problem, however, with
defeating
Lex was revealed in the pilot episode, he was totally nuts <g>  With an
amoral
psychotic on the fight card, "Goody Two-Boots" didn't stand a chance.  Now
*Batman* against Lex, on the other hand... <g>

For the most part, though, Clark had mere seconds to think of a way to solve
a
problem, a problem that could get hundreds if not thousands of people killed
if he chose wrong.  It's easy to be the armchair quarterback for him *after*
the fact, because we're gifted with 20/20 hindsight <g>  Probably the best
fanfic challenge would be to have one person writing Lex and the other
writing
Clark, with both having in mind the desire to *win*, because I personally
don't think a fear of death would work against Lex since death is something
he'd already defeated. Lex also had a complete contempt for life, including
his own.

I think ultimately the most endearing thing that could be said of Clark, is
that he neither possessed the deviousness nor the dark soul necessary to
defeat Lex Luthor.  I jokingly brought up Batman, but he, like The Shadow,
knew "what evil lurks in the hearts of men". Clark, on the other hand, was
guileless.  He didn't even understand "greed".  He felt there was good in
everyone.  For me, Clark was at his best when he "helped" rather than when
he
was trying to match wits with a psychotic villain.  "To help" is what Clark
told Lois when she asked why he was here, and so my favorite scene in that
category is when Superman finds the bank robber a job at the bank he was
going
to rob. Because in that episode, Clark, like the armchair quarterbacks, was
gifted with 20/20 hindsight (repeatedly! ;) in 'Twas the Night Before
Mxymas.
He got a lot of chances to get it right -- just like those of us who write
fanfic, or like Mulder in Monday Monday <g>

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:52:43 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Writing as a Hobby (was Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was Re:
              Touching))
In-Reply-To:  <c680538a.36dffbf6@aol.com>
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At 10:44 AM 3/5/1999 -0500, Charlotte wrote:

[massive snip of some very nice commentary :D]

>Oh shut up Charlotte.  It would take another full length novel to tell
about
>everything that is so great in the Dawning series. But I will try.

I'm sitting down :)  I think I'll try rereading the whole thing when I
start up again after my current new project is done and posted :)

I'm glad there are a whole lot of good fanfic writers whose work is worth
reading and rereading :) I bet a good percentage of them didn't realize
they could write, either, before they sat down to put into words what they
feel about this show.

I'd like to read some personal stories by you all out there who didn't
think they could write before they decided they had an L&C story to tell.
Me?  I wrote some stories for The Prisoner, and I have worked on several
newsletters. None of this was paid work but it was good practice.

How about your real-life stories?

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 22:35:19 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Writing as a Hobby (was Re: Back to Non-Saint Lois ;) (was
              Re:              Touching))
In-Reply-To:  <199903060301.UAA02400@kitsune.swcp.com>
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At 07:52 PM 3/5/1999 -0700, Debby wrote:
>I'd like to read some personal stories by you all out there who didn't
>think they could write before they decided they had an L&C story to tell.

I had never written anything that wasn't a) a school assignment, b) a
business letter, or c) a report for my manager,  before I wrote fanfic for
L&C.

I was fortunate, when the creative bug finally struck<g>, that Debby was
there to encourage me:)

Now, I've won two Kerth awards, and am nominated for possibly three more!
Who'd a thunk it?

Thanks, Debby:)

Margaret

******************************
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
My fanfic now available at:
http://www.capitalnet.com/~brignell/
******************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:52:01 -0500
Reply-To:     x-lander@geocities.com
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In a message dated 3/5/99 9:38:11 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
x-lander@geocities.com
writes:

<< t's nice to know that some things will always be
 there for you , oh the little things that bring us consolation in the face
 of chaos, change, and contract negotiations.  Zoom, Cyrstal Wimmer, Dawn
and
 Mandy and all of you marvelous fans out there, Aloha Oe from Hawaii.
  >>
Yes. Thanks to all the wonderful writers for this.  It's the only thing that
has kept me from going crazy trying to figure out what TNT is planning to do
with LnC after next week.  I can't believe they would end the series with
Contact.  Oh, no!!!

Charlotte

--------------554A990ACACFE4B793420723--
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 05:55:41 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Eilonwy Jamison <astro_dwarf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: In Defense of the NK Arc
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

Charlotte wrote:
>Thanks for the post.  I suspect there were a few of those among mine
too.  Too
>bad they weren't successful crooks.  If they had been,  maybe I could
buy TNT
>and play Lois and Clark all day.
>
>Charlotte
>
If only one of us were in charge, the world would be full of LnC and It
would be great.  Anybody else have some connections in high places?  If
you do run the LnC channel by them a few times and see if you can make
it happen!  Well, I'm just a desperate fan, what do you expect, a sane
post?  You won't get one, atleast not from me!  Everyone else is so good
at expressing opinions!

~ Eilonwy

Who decided to stick her foot in her mouth too late!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:49:13 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      IRC TUTORIAL
Comments: To: LOISCLA@vm.ege.edu.tr
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

I am about to make the final arrangements for the IRC Tutorial.  If you have
not signed up for it and would like to attend please notify me as soon as
possible.

I need to get a final total of those wanting to learn how to use IRC or
mIRC.

Annie Lansbury :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:49:39 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
In-Reply-To:  <f73e3455.36e084de@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:29 PM 3/5/1999 -0500, Zoom wrote:

>[mega snip] Besides, I have this creepy feeling if Superman ever did kill
Lex,
>Lex would

insert my immediate thought here  ---> be dead.

He wouldn't have thoughts.

He won't even have regrets ("I didn't get my beloved Lois, my raison de
etre, after all!").

He wouldn't say "Wow, Superman's bag of tricks was a silk bag and not the
sow's ear I assumed!"

He wouldn't say "Gosh, I should never have used a hair trigger on that
bomb!"

If Superman kills him, he'll be *dead.*

Besides, I see the little scene I wrote as more as a "whoops!" situation.
There was no intention on Superman's part to kill Lex, only to scare the
sh*t out of him like Lex had been scaring Clark. Lex would be killed and
dead only after he had done grievous, unrepairable harm to one Lois Lane,
the person CK loves most in the world (or so we were told). (Or if he
triggered the bomb and decided not to wait at 10,000 feet for Superman to
return).

In the argh, CK missed numerous opportunities to stop Luthor and save Lois.
My big rewrite gave him a lot fewer advantages and tougher choices (save
Lois or save The President?), but Clark took advantage of every opportunity
he had and, I hope, came out much more heroic than the weary,
almost-defeated-but-for-the-clone-saving-him fellow I saw in the original
Argh .

Back to death...: I was once having a gentle argument about wills or
something similar with someone who argued "If you die and leave all those
people with all the problems, how will you feel?????" All I could think to
say was, "I won't feel anything, I'll be dead..." (past life review not
withstanding :)

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
high-maintenance fan, looking for a hero, and
who, among all the other comments in Zoomway's post,
noted that one thing to chuckle about :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 06:52:37 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Debby & the ARRGH
In-Reply-To:  <199903051932_MC2-6CF0-79BE@compuserve.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:32 PM 3/5/1999 -0500, PJ wrote:
>>> Superman is all smiles (with a greater hint of maniac). "This is fun!
Tell
>me somewhere else to check. Make it some place with bagels. I'm hungry!" <<

>ROFL, Debby!  I wouldda paid money to see that...

Me, too! One way to scare a mad person is to act crazier than they can
handle...

>>> Out of character for Clark/Superman? Not given the real argh or
Superman's
>reaction to Gates in Contact. <<

>And I believe he did drop Dillinger from the roof of the movie theater once
>or twice, didn't he?  With not nearly as much at stake, as I recall...

I guess Superman reacted appropriately (intelligently?) in inverse
proportion to the threat.  The less the threat, the faster his mind worked.

As you point out, Superman toyed with Dillinger, whose friends had guns and
could kill a lot of people. He also he threatened Fences ;) who had a giant
weapon and possible access to others. On the other hand, Superman was
totally flustered by Lex (a man Superman/CK might be expected to know well
by now), who only had Lois and what he said was the remote control of a
bomb.

In another case, a giant speaker box was about to crush the musician in WWW
and Superman swooped the musician away rather than catching the giant
speaker. The fast action should have been expected to potentially damage
the frail human, as turned out to be the case (he may well have been hurt
but then went on to milk his injury for all he could). Was it the only
option Superman had in this life-threatening situation?  No. Back in
Neverending Battle, Supes stopped a big falling sign with one hand, saving
a small child and gaining a great deal of good will from onlookers and the
press. The kid didn't sue for suffering mental stress, either :)

Superman can fly very, very quickly (see Ordinary People [don't see
Resurrection]). This requires his mental processes and reflexes to be very
quick, too, or he'd be constantly running into things (see Lethal Weapon,
wherein his reflexes go haywire).

I can see how a person with these abilities would be difficult to write
for, requiring consistant, creative thinking.

...which fortunately we fans have in abundance :)

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 07:01:55 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: out of curiosity
In-Reply-To:  <009D3EE0.F1E9C9C0.143@kenyon.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Oh, late reply - but it looks like my work situation will be calming down
with the return of 1.5 critical people to the workplace on Monday(?) :)

At 04:05 PM 2/18/1999 -0500, I wrote:
><< However, I haven't been much in the mood to work on the series, having
>become deeply involved in another project that I hope you'll like when I'm
>ready to post it (I'm about half way... no, 2/5ths way through at the
>moment) (my proofers are begining to get restless). It takes a very close
>up look at one character unlike any look you've ever had before. >>

Christy replied...

>I understand getting a little tired of writing a particular story. (I've
had to
>put some away for a while and wait til I felt a compulsion to work on them
>again.) But I'm sure we're all dying to know what "another project" means.
I'm
>assuming it's something Lois and Clark related since you said you'd post
it.
>Care to give us a preview? (Like who the character is...?)

I can say that it takes place over a period of about 11 days, it has all
our favorite characters in it, it looks very deeply at one, and I want to
finish it all before I begin to post it. It will also be very slightly
multimedia as I'll have some jpgs on my site to enhance it :)

>-Christy
> kubitc@kenyon.edu
>
>who is sure she isn't the only one who was inspired to try her own hand at
>fanfic after reading Dawning

Thank you :D  I like being inspirational :)

Now... back to work ;)

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
in too-dry NM
(only 4" of snow this winter, we usually get about 12")
but a storm may hit Sunday night... wheee!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 10:29:00 -0500
Reply-To:     nightsky@erols.com
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Genevieve <nightsky@EROLS.COM>
Subject:      Re: IRC TUTORIAL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Lansbury 1 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am about to make the final arrangements for the IRC Tutorial.  If you
have
> not signed up for it and would like to attend please notify me as soon as
> possible.
>
> I need to get a final total of those wanting to learn how to use IRC or
mIRC.
>
> Annie Lansbury :)

Annie, if possible I would like to come.  Please let me know when it
will be.  THanks.

--
____________________________________________________________________
Genevieve Clemens     <mailto:NightSky@erols.com>
   Lots of great stuff on my webpage <http://www.erols.com/nightsky>

For everything you want to know about Superman: in comics, cartoons,
television, or movies; from Bud Collyer to Dean Cain -- check out
  THE SUPERMAN HOMEPAGE <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7771/>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:19:31 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Charlotte Fisler <Cdfisler@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 3/6/99 3:23:54 PM !!!First Boot!!!, debby@SWCP.COM
writes:

<< My big rewrite gave him a lot fewer advantages and tougher choices (save
 Lois or save The President?), but Clark took advantage of every opportunity
 he had and, I hope, came out much more heroic than the weary,
 almost-defeated-but-for-the-clone-saving-him fellow I saw in the original
 Argh . >>

This reminded me of a related point.  When Ching was testing Clark with the
dual bombs, he made the point that Clark would not have been able to stop
the
bombs if Lois hadn't given him the idea of 'splitting himself in two.'   One
of the reasons this incarnation of Superman is so great is that he needs
Lois
Lane.  As I wrote in my litte fanfiction ending to the Metropolis_Times
People
of Metropolis story, 'In addition, her quick wit added immeasurably to his
powers when strength alone wouldn't do.'

Clark alone is simply not as Super and he's not an all knowing all seeing
all
powerful God like person.  Rather he's a flawed, thoroughly human alien who
just happens to be the most powerful person in the world.

Charlotte
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:49:33 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Donna Burton <BURTOND@CONAN.UNION.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Debby & the ARRGH

Pam, he *threatened* to keep doing it til Dillinger remembered and gave
him quite a few seconds to think on the way down but there was only one
Supes dive off the roof that I recall.  ;-)

Donna in Schenectady
burtond@union.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:38:19 GMT
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Eilonwy Jamison <astro_dwarf@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: IRC TUTORIAL
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

>Lansbury 1 wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am about to make the final arrangements for the IRC Tutorial.  If
you have
>> not signed up for it and would like to attend please notify me as
soon as
>> possible.
>>
>> I need to get a final total of those wanting to learn how to use IRC
or mIRC.
>>
>> Annie Lansbury :)
>
>Annie, if possible I would like to come.  Please let me know when it
>will be.  THanks.
>--
> Clemens     <mailto:NightSky@erols.com>
>   Lots of great stuff on my webpage <http://www.erols.com/nightsky>

I would like to attend too.  I've always wanted to learn how to use the
software on my computer for more than just looking at it!  It would be
great if I could come!

~Eilonwy

who is very sorry, Genevieve I thought I had the list address in the
address and I was to stupid to check.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:43:01 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Gillian B Tanz <aliendove@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question about TNT

Hey FoLCs :)
Is my memory faulty, or did TNT promise to play Lois and Clark for at
least 3 years?  I thought they did.....
-Jill aka AlienDove-
AlienDove@juno.com
my webpage: http://members.tripod.com/~AlienDove/index.html
The truth is nobody knows how long they've got.   Anyway, it's not years
that count, it's the moments.  Right now, as they happen." - Clark Kent
in "Brutal Youth"  "We have to save Buffy from Hansel and Gretel." -
Giles in "Gingerbread"
On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:27:04 GMT Eilonwy Jamison <astro_dwarf@HOTMAIL.COM>
writes:
>>Mariann wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone know what's upo with TNT?  this morning I saw an ad for a new
>>show that's coming on March 15 at 5:00pm.  Anyone know if L&C is
>getting
>>a new time or what?
>>
>>
>>I don't know...but they have switched the shows around so much that
>it
>>is making me dizzy<G> I hope it is after 5 maybe at 6.
>>
>>Post ya all later...
>>
>>Annobelle
>
>I don't know if this is just a rumor and if it is I'm really sorry for
>posting it!:) I've heard from various sources that TNT is taking LnC
>off
>the air on weekdays and replacing it with a new show.  When I heard
>this
>I was so ticked at TNT because this time around I was going to finally
>tape the whole season.  At the end of the first season I forgot to put
>the tape in and now they aren't showing it anymore.  Maybe we can try
>protesting or something like ou guys did with ABC!  Sorry if my rumor
>proves wrong, and nobody go slit their throat over it either.  Well,
>back to finding some more evidence to prove the rumor right or wrong!
>:)
>
>Bye!
>
>~ Eilonwy ~
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 15:35:36 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/6/99 9:23:54 AM Central Standard Time, debby@SWCP.COM
writes:

<< insert my immediate thought here  ---> be dead. >>

Insert immediate thought here ----- >  Lex came back from the dead before,
had
his old memories, and so was capable of some cool "after death" exposition
<g>

>>>Besides, I see the little scene I wrote as more as a "whoops!"
situation.<<<

Darn, don't you hate when Superman is such a butterfingered guy? ;)  I
certainly liked it when he dropped the DA twice <g>

>>>In the argh, CK missed numerous opportunities to stop Luthor and save
Lois.
My big rewrite gave him a lot fewer advantages and tougher choices (save
Lois or save The President?), but Clark took advantage of every opportunity
he had and, I hope, came out much more heroic than the weary,
almost-defeated-but-for-the-clone-saving-him fellow I saw in the original
Argh .<<<<

I think the characters come out better in fanfic sometimes for a variety of
reasons. One of the main reasons is that the network or the comics can't
tell
us what to do, and neither can an executive producer or even the actors <g>
We have no budget worries either, that's always a relief ;)  Truthfully, I
love fanfic, but I don't have a lingering animosity towards the people who
created the show.  I know they dealt with the reality of network television
and we don't.  Lex was killed at the end of first season because the network
wanted him gone.   So, DJL killed him off.  Was she happy about it? No, she
was not.  Were the writers of 3rd season happy with having to do what the
network ordered?  No,  but they, like DJL, knew who called the ultimate
shots.

This does lead to character sabotage, it's almost inevitable.  While fans
could accept that Lois' heart was broken by Superman spurning her confession
of love in Barbarians at the Planet, it was much harder to believe that she
would become, in one episode, a woman who would marry Lex Luthor, a man she
confessed she wasn't even in love with.  As fans brought up recently "why"
did
Lois feel she had to get married at all?  Ratings! <g> So, in the name of
ratings and in conjunction with ABC's mandates, Lois agrees to marry a man
she
doesn't love, Superman walks into Lex's wine cellar, which apparently has a
giant cage hanging near the ceiling over his head that either he didn't
notice
or didn't make him suspicious, which then falls around Superman, trapping
him
with its Kryptonite bars, Lex leaves the keys to the cage on a barrel that
would be reachable from the cage if Superman had something as long as say a
... cummerbund, and so naturally Lex leaves Superman with a cummerbund <g>

It does become silly and contrived, and the characters have to act either
slightly out of character or *way* out of character to achieve what the
network ordered.  If the writers were granted a lot of advance notice from
the
network, they might have come up with something that wouldn't hit the "give
me
a break!" button so hard, but often such orders came at the last minute, and
just getting a script out at all became a miracle.  Again, I love fanfic,
but
I don't really compare it to the show.  It's like saying "the book was
better
than the movie".  Well, that's often true. A movie has a hundred pages or so
to tell a story in dialog and direction and a novel can be a thousand pages
long.  Obviously a lot can get lost in the translation <g>

>>>Back to death...: I was once having a gentle argument about wills or
something similar with someone who argued "If you die and leave all those
people with all the problems, how will you feel?????" All I could think to
say was, "I won't feel anything, I'll be dead..." (past life review not
withstanding :)<<<

Ah, but you would if some Gretchen Kelley type person put you back together
again <g> That was the annoying thing about ole Lexie Poo.  Was he dead? Or
was it Memorex? ;)

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:27:16 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois
In-Reply-To:  <4.0.2.19990306062919.008cdc70@swcp.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 07:49 AM 3/6/1999 -0700, Debby wrote:
>In the argh, CK missed numerous opportunities to stop Luthor and save Lois.
>

My instant reaction to this was "just like a soap opera".

I loathe daytime soaps.  They seem so artificial-- no one talks to the
relevant people, the main characters miss every opportunity to resolve the
problem at hand, yet take advantage of *every* opportunity to exacerbate
the problem;\   This kind of plot "development" annoys the heck out of me.
There's a difference between plot "twists" and plot torture!

I think that's part of the reason why I find the latter part of season 3
and most of season 4 less appealing.  The writers of these episodes seemed
to use this type of plot "development" more than in previous seasons.

BTW  I saw "Since You've Been Gone" at Blockbuster today.  Was that the
film Teri was working on just prior to writing IASWAA?  Since the video is
about a high school reunion, I just wondered.

Margaret

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 15:43:38 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pat <peabody@MCS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois
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Margaret asked:

>BTW  I saw "Since You've Been Gone" at Blockbuster today.  Was that
the
>film Teri was working on just prior to writing IASWAA?  Since the
video is
>about a high school reunion, I just wondered.

Teri filmed "Since You've Been Gone" during the hiatus between third
and fourth season (late June, early July)

Pat

peabody@mcs.com
pattijean@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 13:50:28 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Starfire 1138 <starfire1138@HOTMAIL.COM>
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A question for all those dedicated Lois and Clark fans:

I am looking for a fanfic story I read just a few days ago, and can't
seem to find or remember the name of it.  It's a short story and set
after Superman/Clark leaves for New Krypton, leaving Lois alone in
Metropolis.  Anyway, the part I remember most is when Lois gets out of
the shower and looks for her engagement ring on the sink, only to see
that her wedding band (which Clark has with him, of course) sitting in
place of the engagement ring.  It's a nice, waffy story, and I would
love to know the name of it, so I could read it again.  So, if anybody
out there knows what I'm talking about, let me know!  Thanks!

Starfire

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Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:30:55 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         hala yamout <hala_y@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
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A lot of the fanfic and letters that I read have to do with an episode
called "The Phoenix" in the second season. As I live on the other side
of the world and don't get to watch many reruns, can someone please tell
me what this episode is about? Thanks!

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:04:11 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      the phoenix (was Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
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In a message dated 3/6/99 4:53:36 PM Central Standard Time,
hala_y@HOTMAIL.COM
writes:

<< A lot of the fanfic and letters that I read have to do with an episode
 called "The Phoenix" in the second season. As I live on the other side
 of the world and don't get to watch many reruns, can someone please tell
 me what this episode is about? Thanks! >>

For a synopsis of The Phoenix and other facts about the episode, go to:

http://www.actwd.com/zoomway/Episodes/phoenix.htm

It's a great episode, sorry you missed it.

Zoomway@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 00:55:22 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sarah Sandberg <sarahsandberg@EBOX.TNINET.SE>
Subject:      SV:      IRC TUTORIAL
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Lansbury,=20
I couldn't get through to you, so forgive me for sending this to the =
list.   Please, count me in on the IRC tutorial
Sarah

>Hi,
>
>I am about to make the final arrangements for the IRC Tutorial.  If you =
have
>not signed up for it and would like to attend please notify me as soon =
as
>possible.
>
>I need to get a final total of those wanting to learn how to use IRC or =
mIRC.
>
>Annie Lansbury :)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:15:48 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         John Debbage <106532.433@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Kerth Nominations
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Hi,

I felt so thrilled when I saw my story nominated for two awards, especial=
ly
since the competition was brilliant.  =

Thanks to all those who nominated me.  It's a lovely way of saying that y=
ou
liked my story.

And good luck to all the nominees.

Yours Jenni Debbage =
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:02:25 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Kathy Brown <kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Subject:      Re: fanfic title request
In-Reply-To:  <19990306215028.21525.qmail@hotmail.com>
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At 1:50 PM -0800 3/6/99, Starfire 1138 wrote:

>I am looking for a fanfic story I read just a few days ago, and can't
>seem to find or remember the name of it.  It's a short story and set
>after Superman/Clark leaves for New Krypton, leaving Lois alone in
>Metropolis.  Anyway, the part I remember most is when Lois gets out of
>the shower and looks for her engagement ring on the sink, only to see
>that her wedding band (which Clark has with him, of course) sitting in
>place of the engagement ring.

That does sound really sweet and romantic, and I'm sure I've never read it
before.  If anyone does have the title of this fanfic, can they please post
it to the list?  I'd like to track it down myself. :)

Kathy

______________________
Kathy Brown
kathyb@springnet1.com
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:25:32 -0700
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Debby <debby@SWCP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Back to non-saint Lois (was re: touching
In-Reply-To:  <85603c0.36e19198@aol.com>
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At 03:35 PM 3/6/1999 -0500, Zoomway wrote:

>In a message dated 3/6/99 9:23:54 AM Central Standard Time, debby@SWCP.COM
>writes:
>
><< insert my immediate thought here  ---> be dead. >>
>
>Insert immediate thought here ----- >  Lex came back from the dead before,
had
>his old memories, and so was capable of some cool "after death" exposition
<g>

Oh. You said, "I have this creepy feeling if Superman ever did kill Lex". I
should have remembered that Superman often botched things up, without, as
Charlotte pointed out, Lois to do his thinking for him

--no, she *really* said, "When Ching was testing Clark with the dual bombs,
he made the point that Clark would not have been able to stop the bombs if
Lois hadn't given him the idea of 'splitting himself in two.'   One of the
reasons this incarnation of Superman is so great is that he needs Lois
Lane."

I wish this weren't true but for the show it was. Lois was the brains of
the outfit when she was in her right mind. (sigh) So you're right, he
probably couldn't even kill Lex if he wanted to... though I'd have him tell
Lex to "stay right there!" "there" being 10,000 feet high, knowing Lex
thought him crazy...

Besides, I hate blaming the stupid things CK did in the argh on him being
so stupid... but I guess he was. That explains everything. [It also
explains why I could no longer defend him to my friends who had laughed off
his character long before :( ]

>>>>Besides, I see the little scene I wrote as more as a "whoops!"
situation.<<<
>
>Darn, don't you hate when Superman is such a butterfingered guy? ;)

Yes, I do. I find it unbecoming in a superhero who, along with Lois, will
if Wells was right inspire Utopia.

>I certainly liked it when he dropped the DA twice <g>

Yes, that was an amusing period in Clark Kent's life.

[snip how networks make writers do silly things and writers do them instead
of... (delete what I originally wrote here) not doing them.]

>>>>Back to death...: I was once having a gentle argument about wills or
>something similar with someone who argued "If you die and leave all those
>people with all the problems, how will you feel?????" All I could think to
>say was, "I won't feel anything, I'll be dead..." (past life review not
>withstanding :)<<<
>
>Ah, but you would if some Gretchen Kelley type person put you back together
>again <g> That was the annoying thing about ole Lexie Poo.  Was he dead? Or
>was it Memorex? ;)

Were I put together again, I'd write a book about life after death and
start making the rounds of the talk shows to sell it. I would, however,
stay far away from the President and any member of Congress.

Debby
Debby@swcp.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:45:28 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: SV:      IRC TUTORIAL
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Hi,

I have you down for the tutorial.  I will let you know when the date and
time
will be once the final arrangements have been made.

Annie Lansbury :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:55:59 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: fanfic title request
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In a message dated 3/6/99 8:01:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM writes:

<< >I am looking for a fanfic story I read just a few days ago, and can't
 >seem to find or remember the name of it.  It's a short story and set
 >after Superman/Clark leaves for New Krypton, leaving Lois alone in
 >Metropolis.  Anyway, the part I remember most is when Lois gets out of
 >the shower and looks for her engagement ring on the sink, only to see
 >that her wedding band (which Clark has with him, of course) sitting in
 >place of the engagement ring. >>

This has bothered me since the subject has come up, becuase I did not
remember
it.  So I did a little searching. <g>

The Day Clark Came Back -  Pfeiffer, Amanda

On the archive <G>

Anne ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:19:13 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Rachel TenHaaf <rtenha@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: fanfic title request
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If somebody already found this, sorry, but it's called The Day Clark
Came Back. I loved it too. :)
Rachel

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:40:54 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         "K.M. de Castro" <ChoirGirl2@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Season Four, et al
Comments: To: maggie13@bellsouth.net, jenerator@ozemail.com.au,
          trish@hotkey.net.au
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Denise wrote:

<< Anyway, I`d love to be able to pinpoint why
some of us have this feeling  about the last season. >>

For me it was the lack of anticipation. For three years we were put on hold,
trying to see them together *successfully*, and, finally, when it happened,
it
went flat.

Think about it, all you die-hard FoLC's who taped the pilot on the very
first
night it aired... didn't your toes tingle on successive nights when you
wondered what they were going to deliver next week? And didn't you just hate
TPTB when the show was pre-empted for some neanderthal sporting event or
other
non-sensical *special*? What was it that drove us screaming into the night,
wishing people like Mayson Drake and Dan Scardino had jumped off the same
building Lex did? The previews for Strange Visitor had me going nuts when I
watched Lois *kiss* Clark. Really? Is she gonna do THAT?!!! Wow! What's
gonna
happen that I should know about? Granted, in the actual ep it was just a
ruse,
but hey, those people in advertising know which parts to show for the
commercial!

It seems that when the writers run out of anticipatory scripts, they resort
to
the married scripts, and those almost never have the same zing the previous
ones have. IMHO, there seems to be a time when every one in a production
just
seems to get "tired" of the project. I don't know of any specifics, but I've
heard a lot discussed about what was happening in real time when the show
hit
its fourth season. I seem to remember discussions of the actors wanting out,
ABC and Disney at odds, etc.  And with the Final episode, (you know, the one
that should wrap up EVERYTHING about the series) the writers may as well
have
left us stranded on the same island as in OP. It was heartbreaking to be
given
a bit of hope in that cradle, only to realize that there wasn't going to be
a
follow-up story next fall. To me, that was the depressing part of Season
Four.

FORTUNATELY, you can check out Crystal Wimmer's "Full Circle" and get a
really
good story, as well as the closure you need. Thanks, Crystal!

I would never want to speak for you, Margaret, but it might help you to
understand why S4 irks you so much.

Marie,
ChoirGirl2@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:06:52 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
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In a message dated 3/6/99 9:43:13 PM Central Standard Time,
ChoirGirl2@AOL.COM
writes:

<< For me it was the lack of anticipation. For three years we were put on
hold,
 trying to see them together *successfully*, and, finally, when it happened,
it
 went flat. >>

I'm not going to launch into yet one more defense of fourth season (the
crowd
cheers! ;)  Though it wasn't about "anticipation" for me in *any* season, so
much as "hope" that L&C could get through everything and make it work, and
they did. That might be why I enjoy fourth season.  I got what I'd been
hoping
for. However,  when someone said that Brutal Youth was sad where I found it
uplifting, or Lois wore darker clothes (compared to brown??? ;), when she
didn't,  or that a season that held some of the most touching moments, as
well
as the funniest for me, was relegated to "melancholy", I realized that those
of us who really enjoyed that season were looking for something a lot
different from those who did not.  That might sound like a no-brainer
assessment from me, and I guess it is, but since you brought up
"anticipation", that was a facet for *you*, but not for me.

Here was the cool thing about first season for me. Lois, slowly but surely
coming out of her armor and learning to trust and love Clark...at least as a
friend.  Then Clark, who loved Lois from the moment he saw her, learning to
temper that feeling and become the friend she needed.  They both approached
the middle from opposite ends of the room. When they got so close to the
middle, the electricity pulled them even closer. That led to Clark finally
asking Lois out on a date second season.  As their love became a reality,
the
"hurts" also became more real. When Clark used to run off with lame excuses
or
none at all, it didn't hurt Lois, but once she did love him, his "vanishing
act" hurt a lot. The truth was still missing, but It was also the season
where
both Lois and Clark stepped up and said the scary words to each other ;)

Once the truth was out in the open, it was about learning to love Clark for
"all he really is" and not the two people she had thought he was.  It was
Clark not knowing how he felt about Lois, because "there is no *one* way".
It was about Lois feeling the joys of true love for the first time, but
Clark,
trying to be noble, breaking her heart "for her own good".  Lois being
strong
and not taking him back when Clark realized his mistake, until she felt an
assurance was there that he wouldn't do the same thing again.  It was about
Lois fearing she'd only be a "hood ornament" on the Superman mobile, and
Clark
fearing Lois wanted to "be a part of the [Superman] act."  It was about both
of them fearing they wouldn't be the best parents, and *both* reassuring the
other. And yes, it was even about the reviled non-wedding arc <g>

I know it's hated, but when Clark was so kind and gentle and even forgiving
of
the "clone" despite her role in destroying the wedding, it was the truest
definition of Clark's heart. Clark wasn't about being a combination Sherlock
Holmes and Einstein to outwit the villain, he *never* was, nor did he ever
pretend to be. He wanted to "help" and do the right thing, even if that
sometimes conspired to break his heart. Even if that meant going to New
Krypton. When Clark whipped Nor's butt (have to admit I sort of love that,
as
barbaric as it sounds ;) he had the urgency and resolve to set right all the
things that had kept them apart, "Marry me, Lois. Let's not plan, let's not
wait...just marry me."  That is still one of my all time favorite scenes.
They're both so full of emotion that it's the scene that makes me feel
voyeuristic ;)

That brings this full circle to fourth season and why none of it, not one
season, was about anticipation for me. It was all about their journey
together, and not "stunt" events. I loved the pivotal moments, but it was
the
episode to episode learning and growing they went through that made such
moments worthwhile.  If there was anything "flat" about fourth season, it
might be that it was more "even" ;) Tee hee, what I mean is that it didn't
contain the acid-churning, stomach-in-knots, roadblocks that preceded
"events"
in previous seasons.  They still had to fight for each other, and their
love,
as in Soulmates, but they didn't have to do it for five solid episodes and
end
pretty much where they began.  Fourth season contained quiet victories
rather
than monumental ones, but the victories that Clark had longed for since the
pilot. I'm not sure what fourth season could have done to be less flat,
melancholy or somberly clothed  <g>

If the show had known ABC was going back on its promise of one more season,
then I'm sure the writers would have put in two events being saved for the
final season; Lois and Clark having their *own* baby and alternate Clark
finding *his* Lois. I'm very sorry these events didn't happen, but I don't
wring my hands over them either. Since Tempus Fugitive, it was clear Lois
and
Clark would become parents, and HG Wells left with alternate Clark saying he
didn't believe in the word "impossible", Alice showed up to date Perry, and
Lois and Clark found a baby. This was not and would not have been the final
episode planned for the series, but it's very ironic that all of the loose
ends, though not tied, ended on notes of hope, rather than despair.

Zoomway@aol.com (darn, I did end up defending fourth season again, didn't I?
;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:04:14 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Pam Jernigan <jernigan@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject:      Season Four, et al
Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com
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>> It seems that when the writers run out of anticipatory scripts, they
resort to
the married scripts, and those almost never have the same zing the previo=
us
ones have. <<

Well, what was frustrating to me was that "married" scripts didn't, IMO,
have to be "zing-less" and yet many of the first ones certainly were.  I
thought the writers floundered badly, trying to figure out just how to
write for a married couple, and by the time they figured out what the hec=
k
they were doing, a lot of people had already tuned out.

I do think there are two types of fans, though:  One for whom the
anticipation is all the fun, the ones who love being teased, and another
who are impatient to get past that frustrating stage to the "good stuff"
where everything comes together. While I'm definitely in the 2nd group, I=
'm
certainly not going to say that either group has the "right" perspective.=
 =

I just throw that out there as a possible reason some of us prefer the
first two or last two seasons...

Luckily for all of us, however, we have fanfic :-)  If you want a quick
fix, you can read a first season revelation story; if you like to be
teased, you can read Dawning... <g>

PJ
who does enjoy Dawning

!^NavFont02F03C6000FMGJHG8CMG8EHJC76C8F

  Pam Jernigan (jernigan@compuserve.com)
  ChiefPam on the IRC
~~~~~
It's KERTH time!  Read all about it at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html
~~~~~
Read L&C Season 6 (S6) at: http://tempus.simplenet.com/season6/
(I'd turn off the NavFont garbage if I could <sigh>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 10:04:06 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <1288efa7.36e1f546@aol.com>
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At 10:40 PM 3/6/1999 EST, Marie (ChoirGirl2@aol.com) wrote:
>For me it was the lack of anticipation. For three years we were put on
hold,
>trying to see them together *successfully*, and, finally, when it
happened, it
>went flat.

I'm not sure if "flat" exactly describes my feeling about season 4.  (But,
then again, I'm still pondering this 'life' question;)

<snip>
>It seems that when the writers run out of anticipatory scripts, they
resort to
>the married scripts, and those almost never have the same zing the previous
>ones have.

I'm not sure what you meant by "married scripts".  I don't think it was so
much lack of anticipation as a lack of character development once they'd
committed to a lifelong relationship.  It seemed like LnC:TNAOS had gone
>from a character driven show to a situation driven show.

To me there were three "givens" when L&C finally made the commitment to a
lifelong relationship:
        - their love was forever:)
        - they'd have a great sex life<g>
        - they'd do *everything* in their power to protect Superman from
being
discovered!

I think some of what I found wrong with season four was that it didn't seem
like the writers considered these "givens" as unalterable truths!  They
frequently brought each of these "givens" into question, as if Lois and
Clark had somehow not made their commitment.

For example, on at least two occasions, the writers set up the situation so
that one or the other of them would be jealous, and  it would put a
division between them.  (e.g.  Lockerby and Vixen)  To me, this was nuts.
L&C's love was forever!  There was no possibility of them being jealous,
since they both *knew* the other would never be unfaithful.  It seemed like
a lack of faith in the characters to even propose that there might possibly
be any jealousy.

On many occasions the writers went out of their way to point out what a
great sex life L&C were having (or not getting in the last <insert number
of days here>). This seemed redundant.  Of course they were having a great
sex life.  That's a "given"<g>

(Besides, I'm not much into wanting all the details of someone else's
sex-life.  If I hear Monica Lewinsky on her "sexual soul-mate" on more
time, I'm gonna *gag*;p  Switching channels doesn't help.  She's
*everywhere*!)

It seemed odd to me that Clark and Lois didn't protect Superman's identity
better in season 4.  In SLV it was sheer accident on the part of the
photographer that saved them.  Clark seemed too ready to tell the world who
he was.  It seemed odd that he wouldn't have talked it over with Lois.
He's done that kind of thing before, so I can't say it was out of
character.  However, I thought he'd learned his lesson at the end of WIEAK.
 I also thought Lois and Clark, Lois especially, were too ready to tell Mr.
Lane about who Clark was in FH.  Now *that* seemed out of character!

> IMHO, there seems to be a time when every one in a production just
>seems to get "tired" of the project.

The only instance of this I remember was one scene towards the end of STP.
Lois and Clark are sitting on patio chairs in the scene I'm thinking of.
It seemed like someone had accidently edited in the rehearsal copy, and not
the final version, of the scene.  Since this is the only unprofessional
instance I can think of, I can't say that this was much of a factor in my
feelings towards season 4.

>It was heartbreaking to be given
>a bit of hope in that cradle, only to realize that there wasn't going to be
a
>follow-up story next fall.

And, Tim Minear's spoiler about the "instant" teenager did not give me much
hope that season 5 would have been any better;\

> To me, that was the depressing part of Season Four.
>I would never want to speak for you, Margaret, but it might help you to
>understand why S4 irks you so much.

I'm still unsure of exactly what it is about season 4 that I find so
depressing.  I can identify a lot of little things that I found upsetting
or annoying or downright *wrong*, but there's no *one* big thing wrong with
the season.  I guess it's like chinese water torture, a lot of little
niggling things have joined together to give me that pervasive feeling of
melancholy about the season.

Obviously, others saw it differently<g>

I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not* like
soap opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and 4
kind of melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to
know;)

Margaret
trying to find order in chaos;)

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:14:15 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Sheila Harper <sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 10:04 AM 3/7/99 -0500, Margaret Brignell wrote:
>I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
>watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not* like
>soap opera?...  Inquiring minds want to know;)

Yuck!  I *loved* seasons 3 and 4, but I *hate* the daytime soaps!  Happiness
is an absolutely unknown quality on the soaps.  Couples don't stay together;
adultery and cheating are normal parts of life; and when a truly happy
couple can't be broken up, one of them gets killed.  *That* has nothing to
do with L&C in the last two seasons, where they proved that their love and
commitment was unshakable, despite the worst the world could throw at them.

That may be why so many 3rd and 4th season scripts had attacks made on L&C:
it gave the writers a chance to demonstrate not only that L&C's love was
forever (duh!) and that they had a great sex life (double duh!) but to show
the viewers *how* L&C overcame threats to that love (or sex life ;).  After
all (and I hope I'm not spoiling this for anyone <g>), every romance novel
ends with the hero and heroine in a completely committed relationship, with
a great sex life ahead of them.  If the only thing that mattered to a reader
was knowing that, there would be no reason to read the book.  But those
givens aren't important; what's important is the journey.  How did they
reach that point?  How did they face and (inevitably) triumph over the
obstacles to reaching that point?

What you saw as " the writers set[ting] up the situation so that one or the
other of them would be jealous, and  it would put a division between them,"
I saw as the writers putting L&C in a situation where many of *us* would be
jealous--but L&C weren't.  Jealousy implies mistrust and a fear that the
other will leave, and I *never* saw that kind of behavior on either Lois's
or Clark's part.  Clark rightly disliked Luckabee's using Clark's absence on
a story to hit on Lois, and he was distressed because he didn't know how bad
the "hitting on" was, but he wasn't jealous.  Lois hated listening to Perry
and Jimmy talk about Superman with Vixen, especially when she couldn't say
anything to correct their mistaken assumptions (rather like any of us would
feel if we had to listen to speculation about our spouse having an affair),
but she wasn't jealous, either.

Back to your original question:  do people who like Seasons 3&4 like daytime
soaps?  Maybe your question should have been, do people who like Seasons 3&4
like romance novels?  But I know that a number of my fellow S3&4 fans have
never read romance novels, so I don't think it's that, either.  Many of us
loved Star Trek and read science fiction regularly, but being sci-fi fans
should have made us love early Season 2--which was okay, but not what I
watched L&C for.  I don't think you're going to find a pattern in our
reading or viewing tastes, but I can't imagine where else you'll find it,
either.

Sheila Harper
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:22:13 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Donna Burton <BURTOND@CONAN.UNION.EDU>
Subject:      Tim Minear's Strange World

Just a reminder, and a somewhat self-serving one at that, that Tim's
new series pilot airs Monday, March 8, on ABC (:-P) at 10pm.  Tim's
first episode as writer (he's also producing) airs the next night,
March 9, also at 10pm.  This episode, "Lullaby," is of particular
interest to me (here's the self-serving bit) since Tim, as a favor
and kindness to a fan, used my name (first in one place, last a
little later on) for a minor character. :-D  Don't leave the room
though or you'll miss it! The 3 following Tuesday's also have Strange
World taking over NYPD Blue's spot and one of these eps, "Spirit Falls"
will also be one of Tim's.  Last I'd heard ABC had yet to settle on
where SW will land for the remainder of its run.

For a recent interview with Tim see:
www.bflg.com/strange/news/tminear.htm

For the Unofficial Strange World Fan Club see:
http://www.bflg.com/strange/

and for the Strange World web site see:
http://www.section44.com/strange.html

ABC also has a site at http://abc.go.com/ (their main page) which links
to this one for the show:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/strange_world/index.html

Donna in Schenectady
burtond@union.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:58:22 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <36DDE9C100000A08@cncc.cncc.cc.co.us> (added by
              cncc.cncc.cc.co.us)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:14 AM 3/7/1999 -0500, Sheila Harper wrote:
>I don't think you're going to find a pattern in our
>reading or viewing tastes, but I can't imagine where else you'll find it,
>either.

Dang!  There goes another "fine" theory<g>

Margaret
Still pondering

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 09:00:26 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Starfire 1138 <starfire1138@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>At 10:40 PM 3/6/1999 EST, Marie (ChoirGirl2@aol.com) wrote:

>To me there were three "givens" when L&C finally made the commitment to
a
>lifelong relationship:
>        - their love was forever:)
>        - they'd have a great sex life<g>
>        - they'd do *everything* in their power to protect Superman
>>from being
>discovered!

I completely agree that these are givens when L&C finally come to their
senses and realize they are meant to be together.  However, every love
and every relationship no matter how strong has to face challenges to
these "givens," especially L&C.  The fourth season did exactly that, and
although the fouth season was not without its problems, I think it did a
pretty good job of presenting several challenges to L&C.  L&C in turn,
did a pretty good job of overcoming these challenges.

Starfire

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:07:36 -1000
Reply-To:     maeve <maeve@lava.net>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         maeve <maeve@LAVA.NET>
Subject:      Re: IRC TUTORIAL
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Greetings and Aloha Annie,

Please, do, sign me up.

Mahalo nui loa
Maeve
-----Original Message-----
From: Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Date: Saturday, March 06, 1999 2:50 AM
Subject: IRC TUTORIAL

>Hi,
>
>I am about to make the final arrangements for the IRC Tutorial.  If you
have
>not signed up for it and would like to attend please notify me as soon as
>possible.
>
>I need to get a final total of those wanting to learn how to use IRC or
mIRC.
>
>Annie Lansbury :)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:33:55 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Eileen F. Ray" <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 03/07/1999 7:04:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:

<< I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
 watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not* like
 soap opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and 4
 kind of melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to
know;)

 Margaret
 trying to find order in chaos;)
  >>

I may respond to some of your other points later but I know I can give a
quick
and simple response to this one ;).

I loved seasons 3 and 4 and I hate soap operas. I don't watch the daytime
ones, never have, and I doubt I ever will. Ditto for the nighttime ones. My
one great passion in TV prior to Lois and Clark was Star Trek and by that I
mean the original series, with the USS Enterprise under the command of
Captain
Jim (I was born to swagger and kick evil aliens' butts) Kirk ;).

So if your looking for some type of correlation between the two, I don't
thing
it will work, at least not for me.

Cheers,
Eileen
Eraygun@aol.com (who doesn't mind a little chaos now and then ;))
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:36:44 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         No Name Available <Larus2407@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
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In a message dated 99-03-07 10:04:32 EST, Margaret writes:

<< Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not* like
 soap opera? >>

me

But dont' ask me to explain. ;) I just liked that Lois was finally in on the
secret and that they were really together. Don't get me wrong--there were
lots
of things that I found disappointing, but I did like having achieved so much
in their relationship.

--Laurie
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:59:29 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Eileen Barnard <eileen@BARNARD70.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
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-----Original Message-----
From: Eileen F. Ray <Eraygun@AOL.COM>
To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
<LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Date: 07 March 1999 10:00
Subject: Re: Season Four, et al

>In a message dated 03/07/1999 7:04:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:
>
><< I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
> watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not*
like
> soap opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and 4
> kind of melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to
>know;)
>
> Margaret
> trying to find order in chaos;)
>  >>

I'm not altogether sure that the right word for Season Four is melancholy
but more to do with the fact that a lot of the anticipation has gone but is
replaced, at least in part, by more of an exploration of the adjustments
Lois and Clark have to make now that they are married.  The fact that
everything was left kind of in limbo, with the appearance fo the baby but no
follow up, made the whole season seem kind of flat and lifeless.

I often wondered if maybe there should have been more of a break in between
Season 3 and Season 4 with the writers maybe going off to do other things
and coming back with fresher minds.  What do any of you think?

I don't really have a favourite episode from any of the seasons, although
The Pilot was exciting simply because I have always loved the whole Superman
thing, comics, films etc and it is always exciting to watch a different
approach to an old story but there are many scenes I loved, too many to list
here, my favourites always being ones which really hightlighted Lois and
Clark's awareness of each other and their true feelings, whether
acknowledged or otherwise.

I'm not sure that I can quite see the connection here as I have never
watched daytime soaps (although I do know a couple of people who do) but
then again I never watch soaps of any kind.  My other favourite programme is
actually the X Files which I suspect a whole lot of people would say is
really melancholy and we have here another couple exuding as much sexual
tension as L&C and of course you are always wondering if they will ever
admit their true feelings to each other.

I'd love to know other people's feelings about the whole soap opera
connection, this could turn into quite a discussion.

Regards
Eileen B
eileen@freeserve70.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:04:44 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         NKWolke <NKWolke@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
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Hi Folcies :-)
I can't hold back any longer, I just *have* to come out of my lurking corner
and
jump into this thread!

I am one of those people who really loved fourth season. When I saw it, even
third season had not begun in Germany, but I was lucky and had a good
pen-pal in
the US who taped all episodes for me. I had no access to the net yet and
since I
lived on the other side of the ocean I had no idea about "rating troubles"
at
all. My friend who taped the episodes for me wasn't a L&C Fan herself, so
she
didn't pay any attention to what was going on in the press about my favorite
season either.

So I watched fourth season totally oblivious to any other perspectives but
my own
and I really loved it from the start. I remember that I literally "woke up"
after
the NK-arc out of some kind of trance, so deeply involved I found myself in
the
story-line. The scene when Superman first arrived in season four to "fight
for
his people", Lois and Clark happy to be together even as prisoners in
Smallville
and this wonderful, wonderful last propsal from Clark at the fire escape...
I
loved it! I laughed about the wedding destroyer (I thought it was pretty
silly,
but in a nice way) and I was appropriately touched when Lois and Clark
finally
tied the knot. "Soulmates" is still one of my favorite episodes ever. I
simply
*loved* "Brutal Youth", it has so many great scenes and the last scene is a
highlight in my Lois&Clark moments. Then came the two-parter with Lois in
prison
- I was shocked when they found her guilty, Perry's despair and Clark's
"There's
nothing there for me." made me crying. Then the happy turn of the events,
Lois
babbling, the funny remembrance to "Mad dog Lane" of first season... you can
see,
I loved these two eps, too.

Then followed a few episode that I thought were not so good. "ghosts" is
funny
and a hightlight for Teri-Fans, but it's not one of my favorites, "B&C&L&C"
was a
little bit boring. (But not as bad than a few first season or second season
eps.
I only want to point out "Illusions of Grandeur", "The source" or "Chi of
steel")
"Stop the presses" did work for me. I would have appreciated a more
enthusiastic
"make up scene" though. But then there were great eps like "Lethal wapon",
"Sex,
lies and Videotape", the two parter "Meet John Doe" and "Lois and CLarks",
"AKA
Superman" and finally "You've got me under my skin". Many great epsiodes
opposite
a few weaker episodes. It was like *every* other season!

I got access to the internet shortly before the end of fourth season and I
was
totally suprised when I realized that many fans obviously disliked fourth
season!
I still can't understand why although so many people have described their
feelings about it. I just seem to see it totally different.

Margret wrote:
>>> I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not* like
soap
opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and 4 kind of
melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to know;)<<<

Hey, I have to protest here: I *hate* soap operas! I could *never* watch a
soap
opera and actually I was happy that the writers didn't use the clichee
misunderstanding-fight-divorce-scenarios for L&C!

Nicole (who's still amazed that people didn't see fourth season like she
did. It
was so obvious for me!)
AKA CKgroupie on IRC
NKWolke@t-online.de
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:13:33 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Donna Burton <BURTOND@CONAN.UNION.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al

I don't know if it's my favorite season (it's probably a toss up
between 3 and 4--but hell, I loved 'em all) but in terms of the soap
thread.... I made a slight detour as a fan of The Young and the Restless
the summer I was a chambermaid when I could turn on the set as I cleaned
and made beds, but other than that deviation, I've never been nor currently
am a *daytime* soap fan. If you qualify night time soaps with such things
as Dallas and Sisters and Picket Fences, then yeah, I qualify as a soap
fan (or sap fan, as I almost typed).  This probably doesn't address the
speculation clearly either way....duh...

Donna in Schenectady
burtond@union.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:16:46 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <19990307170026.13935.qmail@hotmail.com>
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At 09:00 AM 3/7/1999 PST, Starfire wrote:
>>To me there were three "givens" when L&C finally made the commitment to
>a
>>lifelong relationship:
>>        - their love was forever:)
>>        - they'd have a great sex life<g>
>>        - they'd do *everything* in their power to protect Superman
>>>from being
>>discovered!
>I completely agree that these are givens when L&C finally come to their
>senses and realize they are meant to be together.  However, every love
>and every relationship no matter how strong has to face challenges to
>these "givens," especially L&C.  The fourth season did exactly that, and
>although the fouth season was not without its problems, I think it did a
>pretty good job of presenting several challenges to L&C.  L&C in turn,
>did a pretty good job of overcoming these challenges.

I think this is one of my big sticking points.  I didn't see Lois and Clark
overcoming challenges.  I saw them being "lucky".  They were bailed out
their problems by angels and other people's mistakes (a photographer
dropped her camera, someone else made a mistake in identity, and it looked
like it was going to continue with Dr. Klein's error about them not being
able to have children).  I didn't really see them working through the
challenges presented to them, except on rare occasions (like in Brutal
Youth).

I also didn't really comprehend why the "givens" had to be challenged so
often (okay, once each I can buy, but over and over?).  I guess I wanted
the "givens" to be the jumping off point from which the characters would
develop.  I didn't see that happening in season 4.

I will admit that my "disappointment" with season 4 has skewed my
perceptions.  I've only just come to realize that out of the 22 episodes in
season 4, Lois and Clark were married for *19* of them!  It didn't seem
like they'd been together for that many episodes (I'd have guessed half a
dozen eps at the most<g>).  I guess with all of the times they were in
other bodies, other minds, other dimensions, in jail, suffering from red
kryptonite poisoning, and what-have-you, they didn't seem like a married
couple for all that long;\

I'm still not exactly sure why I didn't enjoy season 4 as much as other
seasons, but I *do* know I didn't find Lois and Clark to be resolving their
own problems.

Margaret
still dazed and confused;)

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:27:53 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sheila posed the question, do people who like seasons 3 & 4 like to read
romance novels?
I don't know about anyone else, but I fall into that category.  Soap operas
on
the other hand are a total turnoff.

Brutal Youth was the episode that made me fall in love with the show.  I had
seen a few episodes on TNT prior to seeing it, but it is the one that
defined
the characters and their relationship for me.  Having discovered the show
very
late (last summer )  I saw the end before I ever saw the beginning, so maybe
my perspective is different.  Then again, I'm one of those people who reads
the last chapter of a book before I buy it, so it worked fine for me.

Ann
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 13:43:32 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Kathy Brown <kathyb@SPRINGNET1.COM>
Subject:      Re: Tim Minear's Strange World
In-Reply-To:  <990307112213.e69c@conan.union.edu>
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At 11:22 AM -0500 3/7/99, Donna Burton wrote:
>The 3 following Tuesday's also have Strange
>World taking over NYPD Blue's spot and one of these eps, "Spirit Falls"
>will also be one of Tim's.  Last I'd heard ABC had yet to settle on
>where SW will land for the remainder of its run.

ABC must be pretty confident about SW as a show to give it NYPD Blue's spot
for March. They did that recently (2 years ago?) with The Practice, which
was and is an incredible show, and one that I followed from Tuesdays to
Saturdays (the death slot), only to cheer when it got moved to Sundays (the
highest viewing night).

Let's hope SW is of similar high quality and, if it is, can attract an
audience and provide Tim a reliable paycheck for some time to come. <g>

Kathy

______________________
Kathy Brown
kathyb@springnet1.com
KathyB on IRC
______________________
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 14:54:36 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Donna Burton <BURTOND@CONAN.UNION.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Tim Minear's Strange World

I'm with you Kathy, on my hopes for the show and Tim's investment in
it but given ABC's track record with show support, I think even Tim is
a bit pessimistic about it's chances. The one rumored slot was
Saturday night and as you remarked, it's pretty much the death slot.
The reviews I've seen (People and TV) have been pretty negative and
inevitable comparisons are being made with X-Files and not in SW's
favor.  I'm crossing everything crossable...

Donna
burtond@union.edu
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:35:30 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <m10Jiqy-0003DUC@fwd09.btx.dtag.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 08:04 PM 3/7/1999 +0100, Nicole (NKWolke@t-online.de)
wrote:
>I am one of those people who really loved fourth season. When I saw it,
even
>third season had not begun in Germany,

Maybe this is the key?  Perhaps if I hadn't gone through the disappointment
of the aarrrgh first, maybe fourth season would seem less of a problem?
Maybe the whole experience of being kicked around by TPTB in third season,
culminating in yet another kick in the solar plexis at the end of the the
fourth season has coloured my whole perception of fourth season?

Nope, that doesn't sound right.  I don't remember liking many of the
episodes at the time I first watched them, they just seem worse the more I
think about them;\

For some bizarre reason, fourth season reminds me of the end of first
season and the beginning of second season.  I have absolutely no idea why.
Maybe it's the whole "TPTB have gone off on some weird tangent" feeling I
have about both?

> I was
>totally suprised when I realized that many fans obviously disliked fourth
season!
>I still can't understand why although so many people have described their
>feelings about it. I just seem to see it totally different.

Whereas I'm having a problem understanding why people actually love it.  I
guess we're flip sides of the same coin?<g>

Margaret

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:11:44 +0100
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Sarah Sandberg <sarahsandberg@EBOX.TNINET.SE>
Subject:      Looking for a proofreader
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi everybody,
I found the fanfic archive about a month ago, and dived right in.  Loved =
it!  You guys are all so talented!  Anyway, the old writing itch came =
back to me, and I started a story of my own.  I don't know if it's any =
good, so I would really like someone to give me an opinion before I go =
overboard.  I should mention that since English isn't my first language, =
I need someone to read not only for content, but also for weird word =
choice and sentence structures.
Thanks,
Sarah
sarahsandberg@ebox.tninet.se
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:23:17 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         The Zoomway <Zoomway@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 3/7/99 10:14:37 AM Central Standard Time,
sharper@CNCC.CC.CO.US writes:

<< Yuck!  I *loved* seasons 3 and 4, but I *hate* the daytime soaps!
Happiness
 is an absolutely unknown quality on the soaps.  Couples don't stay
together;
 adultery and cheating are normal parts of life; and when a truly happy
 couple can't be broken up, one of them gets killed.  *That* has nothing to
 do with L&C in the last two seasons, where they proved that their love and
 commitment was unshakable, despite the worst the world could throw at them.
>>

I couldn't have said it better, Sheila.  I love third and fourth season, but
definitely do *not* watch soap operas <g>  The last time I watched one, I
was
a teenager, and boy, was that a long time ago ;)

>>>Jealousy implies mistrust and a fear that the
other will leave, and I *never* saw that kind of behavior on either Lois's
or Clark's part.<<<

What's funny is, in early episodes like The Rival or I've Got a Crush on You
or even Church of Metropolis, is where you'd see the kind of jealousy what
was
*typical* of a soap opera. One woman spying in a window and seeing a kiss,
her
jaw dropping, looking hurt, then loud arguments, etc. How many times the
first
two seasons did Clark say, "You're jealous."?  What was telling, and like a
soap opera, was in I've Got a Crush on You, Lois weeps, "I *am* jealous."
Of
what?  Someone who destroyed her cover, threw her in the garbage and
patronizingly dismissed her anger?  That right there told me more about why
Lois' previous relationships had been "federal disasters" than anything
else.
The one story line that was most classic in the soap opera tradition, was
the
woman marrying the villain, not knowing he's evil, and the guy who really
loves her, trying to gallop to the rescue and stop the wedding.
Unfortunately
a Kryptonite cage got in his way.  Don't you hate when that happens? <g>

>>>Clark rightly disliked Luckabee's using Clark's absence on
a story to hit on Lois, and he was distressed because he didn't know how bad
the "hitting on" was, but he wasn't jealous.<<<

Exactly.  Clark had no idea what happened, and wanted more information on
how
to gauge his response to Luckabee.  Lois said, "He didn't want this incident
to harm your working relationship."  "Well, *news flash!* it has!"  Clark
was
angry *at* Luckabee not jealous *of* him.  This facet to Clark, a
frustration
being left in the dark as to what exactly happened, can also be seen in
Pheromone, My Lovely.  Lois told Clark that Lex wasn't quite himself on
their
date, but didn't expand on that.  Later, Lex arrived and  wanted to leave a
note for Lois to apologize for his behavior the night before.  Well *twoing*
Clark's suspicion meter started smoking <g>  Yet, Clark couldn't evaluate
how
he should respond with so little information.  Did he hit her? Did he
overpower her?  Was it just an argument?  All Lex would say was, "It's not
important."   Lex could have told Clark that he took Lois'  hand and spewed
poetry, and Lois could have said that Leslie was guilty of misdemeanor hair
touching, but because both Lex and Leslie made their "offenses" sound worse
than they were, it's doubtful Clark would feel much better <g>

>>>Maybe your question should have been, do people who like Seasons 3&4
like romance novels?  But I know that a number of my fellow S3&4 fans have
never read romance novels, so I don't think it's that, either.<<<

Yes, I've never read a romance novel, so that definitely isn't a factor
regarding which episodes or seasons I prefer.  However, I am a Superman
comic
book reader, and I used to actually use the comic books the first two
seasons
as an illustration of how Lois and Clark could be in love, and how Lois
could
be in on the secret (keep in mind that Lois and Clark in the comics were
engaged three years before the series debuted) and it could still be fun and
romantic.  That the show didn't have to rely on humor from phony jealousy
scenarios, Clark's lame excuses or Lois' tantrums.  That said, once Lois and
Clark hit third season, the series left the comic books in the dust, and
never
looked back <g>

I can't really call myself a comic book fan anymore, because the series
spoiled me.  The comics bore and annoy me now.  Lois is of *no* importance
there. In fact, in Elseworlds, Annuals and other "special" out of continuity
issues, Clark is paired with anyone *but* Lois (Wonder Woman, Lana Lang,
Lori
Lemaris). It used to be okay to weed through twenty pages of the comics for
two pages or even two panels of Lois and Clark interaction, but it isn't
anymore.  Even when the comics were at their best in terms of Lois and Clark
interaction, there were still issues where Lois wouldn't even make so much
as
a cameo appearance. I have no doubt that comic book "fanboys" (those who
read
the comics for super hero action, meta-human intrigue and women with huge
breasts ;) prefer Lois and Clark's first two seasons. Happily though, I've
never been a "fanboy" ;)

>>>Many of us
loved Star Trek and read science fiction regularly, but being sci-fi fans
should have made us love early Season 2--which was okay, but not what I
watched L&C for.  I don't think you're going to find a pattern in our
reading or viewing tastes, but I can't imagine where else you'll find it,
either.<<<

Agreed. I loved Star Trek (and still do ;), and most of the fiction I have
is
Science Fiction, but I never saw "Superman" fitting into the SF category
anyway.  What I did get from Star Trek that did overlap and relate to Lois
and
Clark, were the aspects of loyalty, devotion and sacrifice that tend to
relate
to "heroes" in general.  Spock reminded me of *both* Lois and Clark.  Lois,
because she hid her true feelings, which was also true of Spock. He
*controlled* his emotions, he was not *devoid* of them. "You know why you're
not afraid to die, Spock? Because you're more afraid of living. Each day
you're alive is just one more day you might slip and let your human side
peek
out."  Spock also reminded me of Clark because both men denied the whole
truth
about themselves. Spock said he was "Vulcan", ashamed of his human half and
referring to both halves as being constantly at war with each other.  Clark
referred to himself as a "regular" guy, yet he was a regular guy who fried
eggs with his vision, chilled champagne with his breath and defied gravity
to
change a light bulb.

The best comparison between Star Trek and Lois and Clark, is that both shows
allowed the characters to evolve. Star Trek was a character-driven show long
before such shows would become common, but did pave the way for shows like
Lois and Clark where the main "plot" (whether it involved a giant amoebae,
or
a guy wanting a body transplant) existed so that the characters could
interact, learn, and grow. Spock evolved from a character who decried his
human roots, hid his emotions, and spouted tenets of logic as if they were
his
faith, into a character who realized that logic was not the be all and end
all
of existence, and whose warring halves finally made peace with each other.
Also, as with Lois and Clark, the evolution of Spock wasn't "internal", but
rather his close friendship with Kirk, who accepted Spock for what he
pretended to be as well as for what he truly was, and Dr. McCoy,
confrontational and judgmental rather than unconditional in the friendship,
became fundamental to that  evolution.

The triangle of Lois, Clark and Superman was similar.  Superman, at least to
Lois' point of view, was more accepting of all that she was, including her
crazy and dangerous schemes. Clark (again, to Lois' point of view), like
McCoy, was confrontational and judgmental, but both of them, and their
attitudes, were fundamental to Lois' evolution as well, just as she was
fundamental to theirs.  In the end, if I were interested in characters who
don't evolve, I'd gravitate toward plot-driven shows. In that format, the
character you meet first season is likely going to be exactly the same
character you say good-bye to when the run of the series finishes, whether
it
runs only 4 years or 20.  I don't even think Steve McGarret's *hair* moved,
not once in a dozen seasons of Hawaii 50 ;)

Zoomway@aol.com ("Book 'em, Danno" ;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:29:43 CST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Debby & the ARRGH
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Superman can fly very, very quickly (see Ordinary People [don't see
>Resurrection]). This requires his mental processes and reflexes to be
very
>quick, too, or he'd be constantly running into things (see Lethal
Weapon,
>wherein his reflexes go haywire).
>
>I can see how a person with these abilities would be difficult to write
>for, requiring consistant, creative thinking.
>
>...which fortunately we fans have in abundance :)
>
>Debby
>Debby@swcp.com
>

    Thinking quickly and reacting quickly aren't neccasarily the same
things.  I know of plenty of people (myself included) who have no
trouble coming up with a solution fast enough, but if they've got a
soccer ball coming toward they're face, they better hope that it's not
going to hit anything too vital, because there's no way they'll react
fast enough to move.  It appears that with Clark, it's visa versa.  They
guy can react fast (How many people do you know that react fast enough
to catch bullets) but his problem solving skills seem to be right down
on our level.

Jessi
jessi914@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:39:33 -0800
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Stacy <brocks_babe@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Lois and Clark on TNT
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I just checked on www.tvguide.com  and there is no listing for
Superman on TNT after the 14th of this month. I did a search for both
Dean Cain and Lois and Clark, and the last listing that came up was
for 3/14/99.

Stacy

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:48:16 CST
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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From:         Jessi Mounts <jessi914@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
>watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not*
like
>soap opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and
4
>kind of melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to
know;)
>
>Margaret
>trying to find order in chaos;)
>

Finally I have an excuse to make a tiny post!

Yes, I hate soap operas.  I always have and probably always will.

I love seasons three and four.  They're the ones that made me fall in
love with L&C in the first place and the ones that I never get tired of
watching.

There, inquiring mind, is your answer.

Jessi
jessi914@hotmail.com

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Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:58:11 -0700
Reply-To:     erink@ida.net
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Erin Klingler <erink@IDA.NET>
Subject:      Re: Lois and Clark on TNT
In-Reply-To:  <19990307233933.20586.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
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>I just checked on www.tvguide.com  and there is no listing for
>Superman on TNT after the 14th of this month. I did a search for both
>Dean Cain and Lois and Clark, and the last listing that came up was
>for 3/14/99.
>
>Stacy

Has anybody emailed TNT to ask about this?  If so, what did they say?  If
not, who better to go directly to than the source?  ;)

Erin
_________________
erink@ida.net
ELK on IRC
It's Kerth Awards time!!
Visit my 1999 Official Kerth Awards Website!  http://www.ida.net/users/davek
                   *****
"The truth is, no one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the
years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen."
_________________
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Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:40:02 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Maggie <maggie13@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject:      Season Four & Soaps
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***********warning Looooong Rambling, Babbling, E-mail Ahead***********
************Read at your own risk. You have been warned <g>***********

What a fun thread :)

As I seem to be the only soap opera watcher in the bunch,
I feel the compulsion to chime in and babble on a bit. (or quite alot
actually!)

First of all let me say I've been a soap watcher basically
>from birth.  In Latin Countries "novelas" are the primary
format of television dramatic entertainment. When I was
a child my grandmother took care of me while my mom
worked and you could set your clock by the television set.
My grandmother always had it on, whether she was watching
it or not.  From 7 am to about midnight.

I clearly remember peeling potatoes to the news <g>
and my very first soap, Dios Se Lo Pague = sort of like God Bless You
(comes from a saying in Spanish of thanksgiving,
which roughly translated is sort of like,
may God Re-pay you --for this wonderful thing
you have done, which *I* could never repay you for, but [as usual!]
I digress!

So, anyway this was an Argentine soap opera, and right
smack dab in the middle of it the Main Hero had
some kind of problem with the production and
all of a sudden suffered a terrible accident that
left him disfigured and no longer in the running for
the love of the Main Heroine (just imagine if Dean
all of a sudden left and they brought in Scardino and kept
rolling along as if nothing had happened!)

*That* was my initiation into the soap world, so you
can understand my high tolerance for clones and why
although I *detest* Dr. Deter, I love Season 4 as much
as any of the others.

(just as an aside to all this I later found out that
what happened in that show is extremely rare --
you see Latin soaps have a beginning, middle and end
and usually you sign up for the whole thing, tape for
6 months or so, take a break and then do another one.
However that whole experience came in quite handy
when I started learning about "contract negotiations"
which Daytime Soap Opera writers are basically at
the mercy of, why did <insert your favorite character
here> suddenly move 6,000 miles away? not to visit
aunt Esther, silly! Noooooo.  She just got a
night time show, tv movie, sitcom, you get the idea <g>)

If you've gotten this far in my little babble-fest thanks!
I will get to a point, eventually! Promise <g>

In Latin soaps the way it usually works is:
Boy Meets Girl
Boy and Girl declare their eternal love
Boy does something incredibly stupid to lose girl
or Boy *thinks* girl did something she didn't do
which breaks them up
there are *always* Scardinos and Maysons waiting
in the wings
hum de dum and then in the final week, sometimes the very
last episode, Voila!
Everything gets cleared up, Eternal Love Returns

In American shows, well, Bo and Hope from Days of Our Lives
got married when I was in 6th grade.  I was 12. I am now 25.
They are still trying to get back to the Eternal Love Returns stage.

(Btw, I don't currently watch any Daytime soap.  After Hope came back
>from the dead, don't ask <g> and Bo was married to his new eternal
love, .....and....and....and....THEN  they decided Hope wasn't
really Hope, don't ask......I gave up!)

I tune out for a few, uhm, *years* then
I tune back in to see how everyone is doing, then they do
something really stupid and I tune out again.  <---my viewing
habits, feel free to dissect them ;) and while I'm at it
let me mention the last time I stopped taping Days, was when
I started watching LnC on TNT, who needs Bo and Hope when
you can have Mad Dog Lane and the Man of Steel? <g>

I must now say that I have gone back to watching Spanish
soaps and could ramble on about that forever, so I will spare
you the details.  See? I can exert self control, really, I can!

Okay now to the infamous Arc, and Season 4.
First of all, I could have handled the Arc quite nicely
if Dr. Deter had never existed-- up to that point I was
fine.  I am quite adapted to wrenches being thrown in
at the 13th hour (after recovering from the wrench
who stopped by for tea at the 11th hour and the one
who thought the party was really at noon <vbg>).

I enjoyed Teri as the clone, loved the Christmas tree lights
scene, which still cracks me up (Jonathan- Nothing happens?
Clark- nothing, J-not a flicker.....Clark- the lights are out.....)
The Deter thing though I will just be perpetually annoyed
at.

As for the 4th Season, what I remember from when it originally aired
was being worried the show got moved around (always a bad sign)
pre-empted (worse sign) and I even missed it a couple of times
cause I had no clue it was on (Big Red Flag of Impending Doom).

Anyway, for the most part I enjoyed the Season as a whole,
and I think Psychologically I was preparing for the End, so
I was just happy to have what I got.  When I saw Teri
on Rosie I really felt a kind of negative vibe that I can't
really explain other than to say when the show was canceled,
I was disappointed but not surprised.

So, basically I'd say my soap experience just gave
me a higher level of tolerance for frustration
with the arc *and* if anything heightened my
enjoyment of the married eps because that's
the part you never get to see, the *how*
the supposedly "happily ever after" part
goes.  (Zoom wrote one of her wonderfully eloquent
posts on this very topic on the loiscla list shortly after
I joined, all about the Promise of the first seasons
and the Payoff of the last one.)

And I'd like to end my little novel
(aren't ya glad I don't write fanfics?
I can see it know, Lois and Clark meet War and Peace,
General Kutuzov develops an Elvis fixation, read all
the exciting adventure! all  2, 647 pages of it!)

Now, where was I? Oh! Yeah! I found a quote from
the great Zoometh from when the last season
was actually on! these little gems of wit excite
me so! there *is* a reason I'm the Official Kerth
Groupie ya know? ;)

Here goes the zoomster:

"Lois and Clark are stagnating at the moment because it's like they threw
out a sign that said, "We interrupt the growth of these characters for an
important A plot" We aren't seeing what their married life is like, or how
it affects them. Out of the 11 aired episodes, there has only been *one*
where Lois  or Clark/Superman wasn't the direct target of the villain,
which gives them very little down time for B plots, or even being
reporters.
Maybe that's where their passion has gone, they're just too darn tired <g>"

Interesting eh?

Babble On FoLCs,

Maggie
Official Babbler of the 21st Century <g>

maggie13@bellsouth.net  (aka supermags on IRC)
"The difference between the right word and the
almost right word is the difference between lightning
and the lightning bug."  -- Mark Twain
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 19:29:49 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Kate Crane <KCrane1865@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois and Clark on TNT
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In a message dated 99-03-07 19:05:14 EST, you write:

<<
 Has anybody emailed TNT to ask about this?  If so, what did they say?  If
 not, who better to go directly to than the source?  ;)
  >>

I have e-mailed them twice and each time received the following:

"We have received your request for personal assistance and will try to
answer
it as soon as we can.  If, by chance, you do not get an e-mail after 3-7
days,
then most likely we are either unable to answer your question, or you have
posed a query that is answered by the list of questions/answers provided.
The
Frequently Asked Questions list you've seen is due for a massive
update--including separate FAQ lists for all of the series on TNT--within
the
coming weeks, so please be patient.  Take care, and thanks much for writing
to
and watching TNT. "

I don't think it would hurt to send more e-mails expressing our concern:
   tnt@turner.com

Kate
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:30:37 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         Starfire 1138 <starfire1138@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      L&C on TNT
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I e-mailed TNT on Thursday of last week and voiced my concerns about
Lois and Clark going off the air on March 14th.  As of yet, I have not
heard anything from them.  I'm not sure if they are just swamped wtih
e-mail or choosing not to reply.  Who knows?  Did anyone else try to
e-mail them?  I used the following address: tnt@turner.com.  It sounds
pretty generic, but that is the only one I found on their website.  Are
there any other options?

Starfire

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The hard is what makes it great."

     - Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

______________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:04:52 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Rachel TenHaaf <rtenha@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
>Agreed. I loved Star Trek (and still do ;), and most of the fiction I
have is
>Science Fiction, but I never saw "Superman" fitting into the SF
category
>anyway.  What I did get from Star Trek that did overlap and relate to
Lois and
>Clark, were the aspects of loyalty, devotion and sacrifice that tend to
relate
>to "heroes" in general.  Spock reminded me of *both* Lois and Clark.
Lois,
>because she hid her true feelings, which was also true of Spock. He
>*controlled* his emotions, he was not *devoid* of them. "You know why
you're
>not afraid to die, Spock? Because you're more afraid of living. Each
day
>you're alive is just one more day you might slip and let your human
side peek
>out."  Spock also reminded me of Clark because both men denied the
whole truth
>about themselves. Spock said he was "Vulcan", ashamed of his human half
and
>referring to both halves as being constantly at war with each other.
Clark
>referred to himself as a "regular" guy, yet he was a regular guy who
fried
>eggs with his vision, chilled champagne with his breath and defied
gravity to
>change a light bulb.
>
>The best comparison between Star Trek and Lois and Clark, is that both
shows
>allowed the characters to evolve. Star Trek was a character-driven show
long
>before such shows would become common, but did pave the way for shows
like
>Lois and Clark where the main "plot" (whether it involved a giant
amoebae, or
>a guy wanting a body transplant) existed so that the characters could
>interact, learn, and grow. Spock evolved from a character who decried
his
>human roots, hid his emotions, and spouted tenets of logic as if they
were his
>faith, into a character who realized that logic was not the be all and
end all
>of existence, and whose warring halves finally made peace with each
other.

>Zoomway@aol.com ("Book 'em, Danno" ;)
>
Oh my word! I'm sorry to do this, but I just wanted to say thanks to
Zoom. I never realized the comparisons between Star Trek and L&C before.
Maybe you could write a book like the one about Star Trek, only call it
'Everything I learned, I learned from L&C'. Heck, you could just put
together all your posts and make em a book. :) I've always loved Star
Trek and now I have an even better reason to watch.

Thanks,
Rachel
rae@usXchange.net

______________________________________________________
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Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:08:40 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Margaret Brignell <brignell@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <816f538c.36e30a65@aol.com>
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At 06:23 PM 3/7/1999 EST, Zoomway wrote:
In among other earlier season examples said:
>but because both Lex and Leslie made their "offenses" sound worse
>than they were, it's doubtful Clark would feel much better <g>

That's my point.  Why is Clark feeling bad?  Shouldn't he have trusted Lois
enough (or known Lois well enough) to *know* she wouldn't have encouraged
Leslie?

As for the earlier season examples, I'm afraid all that is doing is making
me wonder why I enjoyed the earlier seasons, not making me question why I
didn't like season 4;\

>Agreed. I loved Star Trek (and still do ;)

Me too<g>

Then Zoomway said:
>The best comparison between Star Trek and Lois and Clark, is that both
shows
>allowed the characters to evolve.

However, Maggie (maggie13@bellsouth.net) quoted Zoomway as saying:
>"We interrupt the growth of these characters for an
>important A plot" We aren't seeing what their married life is like, or how
>it affects them. Out of the 11 aired episodes, there has only been *one*
>where Lois  or Clark/Superman wasn't the direct target of the villain,
>which gives them very little down time for B plots, or even being
>reporters.
>Maybe that's where their passion has gone, they're just too darn tired <g>"
>

I'm in agreement with Zoomway's opinion while season 4 was actually in
progress.  The characterization was stunted in season 4.  And, to be
honest, I don't remember *ever* seeing what their married life was like in
the rest of the season.  As far as I can remember, they weren't in the same
room/dimension/body long enough to find out!

Margaret
Still pondering;\

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Margaret Brignell
brignell@capitalnet.com
Ottawa, Canada
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:29:11 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Georgia E. Walden" <gwalde14@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject:      Re: Season Four, et al
In-Reply-To:  <d335a408.36e2c693@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:33 PM 3/7/99 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 03/07/1999 7:04:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>brignell@CAPITALNET.COM writes:
>
><< I was wondering if it had anything to do with whether or not you like
> watching daytime soaps.  Does anyone who *loved* seasons 3 and 4 *not*
like
> soap opera?  And, on the other hand, does anyone who found season 3 and 4
> kind of melancholy actually *love* soap opera?  Inquiring minds want to
>know;)
>
> Margaret
> trying to find order in chaos;)

Just to add a little more chaos ;) I also love Seasons 3 & 4 (and most of 2
and a whole lot of  1 <g>) but I can't categorically say I despise soap
opera. Or at least, I didn't always.  I never watch them anymore, for all
the reasons Sheila stated so well, but when I was a teenager I would
periodically get hooked on on during the summers when I was home from
school. I was most fond of "The Edge of Night" which had great murder
mystery plots, but I sampled most of them at one time or another.  There'd
be a couple with an interesting relationship that developed for a while,
reached a climax, and then boom! As Sheila says, something horrible would
happen, usually involving a baby being fathered by someone else. ;) Anyway,
somewhere in my twenties, I swore off the soaps, and never regretted the
loss.

I'm also a long-time Trek fan (original series, of course, like Eileen <G>)
and that was also my only other true TV obsession (like Zoom.)  But unlike
them, I've read literally thousands of romance novels ;) and still
occasionally dip into the genre. At their best (and despite what you may
have heard, there are good ones <G>) they have the same qualities of
genuine emotion, humor, and a respect for the power of love that L&C
demonstrates, especially in 4th season. ;)

Georgia

gwalde14@mindspring.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:33:25 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Annette Ciotola <AMCiotola@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Lois and Clark on TNT
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In a message dated 3/7/99 7:30:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KCrane1865@AOL.COM
writes:

<< "We have received your request for personal assistance and will try to
answer
 it as soon as we can.  If, by chance, you do not get an e-mail after 3-7
days,
 then most likely we are either unable to answer your question, or you have
 posed a query that is answered by the list of questions/answers provided.
The
 Frequently Asked Questions list you've seen is due for a massive
 update--including separate FAQ lists for all of the series on TNT--within
the
 coming weeks, so please be patient.  Take care, and thanks much for writing
to
 and watching TNT. " >>

Wow, this is a long way from the immediate and what seem like personal
answers
we were first getting from TNT before LnC started it's initial run with
them.

Anne :/
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:06:46 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Lansbury 1 <Lansbury1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Writer's Showcase
Comments: To: LOISCLA@vm.ege.edu.tr
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Hello,

The Writer's Showcase has a new Featured Writer of the Week.  She is an
Irish
Floc who now lives in England.  She, also, is a talented writer who gave a
very interesting interview.

The URL is............
http://www.simplyorganized.simplenet.com/showcase.html.

I hope you have time to drop by and read her interview.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:02:07 PST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Starfire 1138 <starfire1138@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      NIGHTMARE
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain

I also could not find "Nightmare on Hyperion Avenue" anywhere so could I
also be sent a copy?  Thanks!! :o)

Starfire

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The hard is what makes it great."

     - Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:26 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Sharon L. Gilbert" <sgilbert@DDYNE.COM>
Subject:      The Power to Forgive 1/8
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This is only my 2nd attempt at putting a story "out there", so please be
kind. These characters, of course, are not mine. I just enjoy thinking about
them and what I'd like to see them do.

The set up for this story is different from what occurred in the show. Clark
has been away on New Krypton for about a year. During that time, Lois has
spent more time with the Kents. I apologize in advance to any fanfic writers
who may recognize elements of their stories in this one. I have read so many
great stories on the different sites that I fear I've blurred the line
between what is mine and what I read. If I have copied you, please consider
that imitation is the highest form of flattery and not that I was attempting
to plagiarize.

The story and songs quoted are enclosed by asterisks and credited at the end
of the story.=20

And now, please to begin.

Martha and Jonathan Kent sat on the front porch, swaying slightly in the
swing. It was a comforting way to bring the day to an end, sitting close and
listening to the sounds of the night in the country. The peace was disrupted
by the barking of the farm's dog. Jonathan looked towards the barn. Into the
circle of light cast from the porch, a shadow of a man appeared. He was
thin, almost painfully so. His hair was cut very close to his head and he
limped slowly forward, bearing much of his weight on a cane. The image
reminded Jonathan of newsreels he had seen of survivors of war camps. The
tensing of Jonathan's body alerted Martha, and she too, looked out into the
yard. What she saw was her adopted son, Clark Kent. She wanted to call to
him, but her breath caught in her throat and she could only whisper his
name. At that, both parents leapt to their feet in a race to greet their=
 son.

Martha wholeheartedly embraced her son while Jonathan stood close by,
patting his son on the back. She relinquished Clark briefly to allow his
father a chance to greet him properly. Clark mustered a smile for his
parents and drew a shaky breath. "Mom? Where's Lois?"

At that moment, Lois Lane walked out of the house drying her hands,
oblivious to the drama unfolding in the yard. "Dishes are done." she
directed towards the swing, where she expected to see Martha and Jonathan.
When she saw that it was empty, her eyes were drawn to the yard.

Martha and Jonathan moved aside, allowing Clark and Lois to see each other
for the first time in almost a year. Clark stood frozen to the spot, his
knees shaking and threatening to not hold him upright. Uncertainty was
evidenced in his body language. It seemed to Clark that Lois stood and
stared at him for an eternity. She took in his gaunt figure,  a shadow of
the vibrant man he used to be.

For Lois' part, the only struggle she was experiencing was to reconcile
within herself the reality that Clark was actually here in the flesh, not
just haunting her dreams. The dish towel slipped from her hand as she raced
>from the porch, across the yard, to throw her arms around Clark's neck.

The reality of having Lois close caused Clark to hesitate before wrapping
his arms around her. He could not deny his body's automatic response. All
his senses became alert to her scent, the sounds she made, the whole feel of
her. Having her body pressed against his was sweet torture. He squeezed her
tightly and then pulled her away from him so that he could see her, face to
face. Clark swallowed to move the lump down his throat and asked in a small
voice, "Do you still love me?"

Lois couldn't believe the question and that it had come from Clark. She said
simply, "Yes." And before she could reassure him more, Clark pulled her to
him again, holding onto her as if she were his life itself. Lois sensed a
desperation in Clark and she did her best to soothe him with her touch,
stroking his hair, shoulders, any part of him she could reach.

Jonathan and Martha had moved into the house to warm dinner for Clark, and
to give the other couple time alone. But now, their own desire to care for
their son became too strong and Martha called to them to come in to eat.
Lois and Clark released one another and Lois moved to take Clark's hand and
lead him into the house. Clark hesitated, "Wait. I need=85.." and he=
 hesitated
to verbalize his need for his cane, merely looking from Lois to the cane on
the ground beside him. Lois hesitated for only a second before retrieving
the cane and placing Clark's other arm around her shoulder.

"You have me to help you now."

*******************************
Clark sat down to a full plate of pot roast with potatoes and carrots and
obviously homemade bread. After his first few bites, Clark commented, "I've
really missed your cooking, Mom."

Lois and Martha shared a smile. "I didn't make this, Clark. It was Lois'
turn to cook tonight."

Clark was not at all successful in hiding his surprise at this revelation.
Lois just smiled, happy that her cooking had passed muster.

The family made small talk as Clark ate, with most of the conversation
directed at catching Clark up on what had been happening during the time he
had been away on New Krypton. Clark seemed to purposely avoid any discussion
of what he had done during his time away.

Martha got up to cut Clark a slice of apple pie. Lois moved to the
refrigerator to pour a glass of buttermilk and Jonathan moved Clark's dirty
dishes to the sink. Martha placed the pie in front of Clark, resting her
other hand on his shoulder. Clark stared intently at his mother's hand on
his plate. Clasping her small hand in both of his larger ones, Clark brought
his mother's  hand to his cheek and said in a small voice, like a lost child
found, "It's good to be home." Martha held Clark to her breast and rocked
him. Lois saw and heard this exchange take place and had to look away, not
wanting Clark to see her cry so easily. Jonathan was fighting tears himself
and placed his arm around Lois, even as she placed her head on his shoulder.

Clark seemed to gather some control and was able to release Martha's hand.
She straightened and said something about checking the wash, wiping her eyes
as she left the room. Lois gave Clark his glass of buttermilk and sat down
to enjoy his company. Jonathan left the room to check on his wife.

CONTINUED IN PART 2
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:29 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 2/8
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*******************************
It was decided that Lois would give up the bed for Clark and take the couch.
Lois knew Clark had to be exhausted. The gaunt, sunken look to his face was
not something she was accustomed to seeing in Clark and she wanted to do all
she could to speed his recovery.

She visited Clark in his old room wanting to see him one more time before
being separated by sleep. Clark was under the covers but smiled and held his
arms out to Lois when she entered the room. Lois immediately moved to his
bedside and stretched out on top of the covers beside him, resting her head
on his shoulder and wrapping an arm around his waist.

"Are you cold?" she asked, talking note of the long sleeve t-shirt he was
wearing.

Clark hesitated, in a way that seemed familiar to Lois, and said, "Yeah, I
guess I need to get accustomed to the cool nights again."

"Here I was, hoping to see more of you." Lois teased, raising up on her
elbow to be able to see Clark. She wiggled her eyebrows to add to her
teasing remark. To her surprise, Clark didn't respond as she expected to her
comment. In fact, his mood seemed to darken.

"Clark? What's wrong? What's bothering you?"

Clark swallowed and shifted his gaze from the ceiling to Lois' face. Finally
seeing her again, having her close, seeing such hope in her eyes - Clark
began to hope, too. He framed her face with his hands, brushing her brow,
her cheeks and lips with his fingers. Lois' response encouraged him and he
drew her face to his to brush his lips along the same lines his fingers had
just touched.

Lois' body tingled at Clark's touch. Her dreams had been haunted by his
image and her body tortured by the memory of his touch. To have him here now
and to be lying in bed with him made it hard to remember all the reasons
they needed to go slow. They had agreed to wait until they weer married.
Clark was obviously weakened from his experiences on New Krypton. So much
had happened in their time apart that they needed to discuss. However, none
of that seemed as important as how she felt at the moment and she threw
herself into the kiss, exploring Clark's mouth and roaming kisses across his
face and neck.

When she realized how heavily she was breathing and the effect she was also
having on Clark, she snuggled into the crook of Clark's neck and shoulder
and took a deep breath. Clark also breathed deeply and squeezed Lois.

"Maybe it's a good thing you're wearing that t-shirt. I might have a hard
time resisting that body of yours." Lois teased.

Lois could sense a difference in Clark, a slight change in the way he held
her. "Yeah. I'm really pretty tired. Maybe we should say good night."

Lois knew something was not right but, after a year apart, she questioned
her own ability to read Clark. His time away and the things he had seen on
New Krypton had changed Clark and, thus far, they'd not had time to discuss
it. It would take time and she was grateful they'd have plenty of that here
on the farm. Lois sat up. She pulled Clark's covers up and kissed him on the
cheek. With her mouth close to his ear, she whispered, "I love you, Clark
Kent."

Clark placed his hand on top of Lois' resting on his chest. He said in a
quiet, small voice, "I love you, too."

*******************************
Lois was having trouble getting any sleep on the couch. It wasn't that the
couch was uncomfortable. She had taken many naps on it. Lois was restless
and she couldn't place her finger on the reason. Was it the fact that Clark
was finally home? Was it because she was separated from him when all she
wanted was to be beside him? She decided if she looked in on him, she could
put her mind at ease and get some sleep.

She slipped upstairs and could hear a low sound coming from Clark's room.
She hurried to the door and looked in. What she saw broke her heart.

Clark was sitting up with his knees hugged to his chest. He was rocking
slightly, banging his back against the headboard. His covers were tangled
and pushed off the bed. He was sweating and mumbling something, which had a
chant-like cadence to it. Lois chastised herself for not responding sooner
to her feeling of unease, for not sensing a problem.

She rushed across the room and crawled into his bed, wrapping herself around
Clark and holding him to her. She rubbed his back vigorously and wiped the
sweat and tears from Clark's face, holding his head to her chest. Clark
didn't immediately respond and Lois began whispering nonsense to Clark, a
desperation rising in her as she realize he wasn't waking up from whatever
dream had him in its grip. She continued rocking with him, even as he
maintained his chant under his breath. Lois could not hear what he was
saying well enough to understand him.

Martha stuck her head in the door, also having been awakened by the sounds
of Clark struggling in his sleep. When she saw that Lois was there for
Clark, she slipped out unnoticed.

Sometime during the early morning hours, Clark calmed and he and Lois
settled to sleep. He never seemed to waken fully to acknowledge Lois'
presence. However, at some level, she had reached him and he was able to
sleep. They lay together, their bodies intertwined, each comforting the
other.

Clark woke first, smiling to himself at the familiar smells - breakfast
cooking downstairs, cows and hay outside, Lois beside him. That last smell
had him opening his eyes to look at the small woman holding him close to her
breast in almost a protective way. He wondered at what point she had come to
him and if she had been witness to his recurring nightmare.

Lois began to stir and Clark moved onto his elbows to watch her wake up.
"Morning, Gorgeous."

"Hi ya', Handsome." At that response, a shadow passed over Clark's face.

"I think I'll jump in the shower before going down for breakfast. We'd
better not lay around. Mom doesn't like to serve a cold breakfast." And
Clark was up and gone.

Lois was surprised by how quickly Clark's mood changed at her comment. His
mood had also changed last night when she had teased him about his
long-sleeved t-shirt. And to top it off, Clark had not mentioned his
nightmare and had run off before she could bring it up. What was the common
denominator to her observations? What happened to Clark on New Krypton? What
hell did Clark live through that had marked him, body and soul? Lois had
noticed the scar above his eye and the one on the back of his head and the
limp, necessitating the use of a cane. Clark had never had his hair this
short before so there was some story behind that, as well. It didn't take
Lois holding Clark for her to notice how terribly thin he was. All of those
things alarmed Lois greatly but she felt Clark needed some time to
decompress before he could talk about it.

Clark had a hearty breakfast and spent the morning around the farm with his
father. Lois forced herself to let Jonathan have time alone with Clark,
although her heart's desire was to glue herself to Clark's side and never
leave him alone ever again. However, she did want some time to discuss with
Martha her concerns regarding her observations of Clark and she knew his
parents needed time alone with him, as well.

Everyone was anxious for a stretch of warm weather to allow Clark time to
soak up some sun to speed his recovery. It was unclear how much time he
would need under the Earth's sun before his powers returned and the physical
scars faded. Unfortunately, it was the gray area between the end of winter
and the start of spring and the days remained cloudy, cold, and wet. Martha
did her best to provide Clark's favorite meals to help him get back all the
weight he had lost. Soon, his face lost some of its gauntness but there was
still a guardedness to him that his loved ones were unaccustomed to seeing.
He did not talk about his experiences on New Krypton, only to say that his
responsibilities as a noble were met and he was home now. Jonathan hoped his
time with Clark would build up Clark's endurance and the physical labor
might free Clark's mind so that he could talk. Clark had reduced his
reliance on the cane and was left with only a slight limp now but Clark
avoided the topic of his year's experience and continued to carry his ghosts
alone. Lois knew the ghosts were real because she spent time comforting
Clark each night from two in the morning, when the ghosts would come, to
dawn, when the coming of light seemed to chase them from Clark's room. He
continued to struggle in his sleep with the dream, maintaining the chant,
which Lois still could not decipher.

CONTINUED IN PART 3
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:32 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 3/8
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*******************************
After two weeks of gray weather, a day came that was sunny and warm. Martha
prepared a picnic lunch for Lois and Clark and sent them in the old truck to
the back field where a grove of trees bordered a small lake. Even though it
was warm and Lois was in short sleeves and jeans, Clark continued in his
practice of wearing long sleeve shirts.

When they reached the lake, Clark suggested a walk and Lois went along.
However, she was anxious for Clark to spend as much time as possible exposed
to the sun.

"Okay, Kent, Shed the clothes. Martha sent sun block so you don't have to
worry about burning your sensitive skin." Lois hoped a light attitude would
help Clark respond positively.

Again though, Clark froze like a frightened rabbit. Lois decided she had
danced around this enough.

"Clark, what's wrong? You're scaring me."

Clark responded quickly to the panic in Lois' voice. "That's the last thing
I want to do, Lois. But I am afraid I'll scare you."

"Honey, nothing about you frightens me except living without you. You can
tell me anything but don't tell me nothing." Lois placed her hands on
Clark's chest and moved in close. "I love you, Clark." She sensed a need in
him to be reassured of that fact and vowed to tell him as often as she
could. "You can tell me anything."

He cupped her face with his hands and sweetly kissed her lips. "I love you,
too." And then he took a deep breath, as if to fortify himself for what was
to come. "Things happened to me on New Krypton. Things that changed me."

Lois reached up to outline the scar above Clark's right eye. "You mean more
than just physical scars, don't you?"

"Yes. Things I'm not sure what to do with or how to handle."

"We can handle them together, Clark. You are not alone in this. You don't
ever have to be alone again."

That comment made Clark attempt a smile but his lips were quivering and his
try only pulled up one corner of his mouth. Clark reached for the top
buttons to begin taking off his shirt.

"Let me do it?" Lois asked as she reached for his buttons.

Clark relinquished the task and rested his hands at Lois' waist, watching
her face as more of his chest was revealed.

Lois unbuttoned Clark's shirt and pushed it open at the shoulders, revealing
a circular scar on his right shoulder. With a shaky finger, she touched the
indentation. Clark could see the tears building in her eyes and he hastened
to reassure her.

"It doens't hurt any more=85.and it'll fade after I spend some time in the=
 sun."

The way Clark hesitated on that last statement made something click in Lois'
brain and she looked into his face. Instead of the guarded look he had had
on the previous occasions she had teased about his body, there was a
hopefulness there and Lois seized the moment. This was uncharted territory
for Lois. Clark had never seemed the least bit self-conscious about his
body. After all, he wore the red and blue suit. Lois felt like she'd never
been particularly successful in hiding her appreciation for Clark's body
and, since they'd become engaged, she had taken advantage of any opportunity
to familiarize herself with the feel of Clark. But now, she realized, Clark
was afraid of her response to the changes in his body brought about by his
experiences on New Krypton.

"Clark, while I adore your body=85" and she had to smile at herself and the
slight embarrassment she felt at the admission, "It's your heart and soul
and spirit and mind that I love with all my heart. That will never change.
Even if the package does."

This seemed to reassure Clark, even though Lois felt she would need to
remind him of this fact. She continued to push Clark's shirt free of his
chest and she noticed a jagged, slashing scar across his abdomen and on his
right side.

"It was an ice blade fight." he said simply.

Lois traced the scar across his stomach and felt the muscles clench and
quiver. She placed both hands on Clark's upper chest and pressed her cheek
to his sternum. Breathing deeply of Clark's scent, she sighed, "It feels so
good to be this close to you again."

Clark reached behind Lois to unbutton his cuffs and hugged Lois to him.
"Yes, it does. But there's more."

He released his hold on Lois and shrugged out of his shirt. When he did, he
placed his hands on top of Lois', still resting on his chest. It was then
that she noticed the scars circling both of his wrists. Lois moved her hands
to trace the newly revealed scars, wondering what else Clark had to reveal.
She looked up, a question in her eyes and Clark responded, "I was captured
by Lord Nor's men=85and whipped." With that, he turned his back to Lois.

Lois could not catch the sob that escaped, even as her hand flew to her
mouth. She detected the droop in Clark's shoulders and she moved immediately
to reassure him. Clark's back was criss-crossed with numerous scars, some
thin and long, some thick and jagged, many over lapping, as if he had been
whipped on more than one occasion. The scars seemed to extend below the
waistband of his sweat pants and Lois wondered if he'd been subjected to the
further indignity of being stripped naked before receiving the beatings.
Lois stroked Clark's back, gently caressing the scars and brushing them with
her lips. She wrapped her arms around him, pressing herself to his back, and
he grasped her hands in the front.

They stood that way for a time, each comforting the other, until Lois
released Clark and wiped the tears from her cheeks and eyes. "I'd better put
some sun screen on you. I don't want you to get your first sunburn since
becoming an adult."

Clark stood still and willingly gave himself over to Lois' attentions. He
watched her closely, attempting to gauge her mood. He had to admit that it
felt wonderful to have Lois' hands ministering to him.

When she had finished, Lois said, "Okay, off with your pants."

Clark smiled and teased, "All right, but that's as far as I'm going unless
you take something off, too."

Lois giggled at his remark, thankful to hear Clark finally tease her. "No, I
think I'll wait and surprise you."

Clark couldn't hide the blush that spread from his chest to his face. He,
too, had always had a potent response to Lois' body and had explored as much
as he felt proper on the occasions they'd spent together on the couch.

He removed his pants and gave a very limited description of the scars on his
legs, explaining the limp was the result of a piercing blow delivered during
hand to hand combat.

Lois and Clark spent the rest of the morning walking the fields and woods or
dangling their toes in the lake. The lunch Martha had made was delicious and
they rested under the trees, napping during the afternoon. Clark rested his
head in Lois' lap and she used the time he was asleep to refamiliarize
herself with the contours of his face. She also examined some of his scars.
Lois wondered at the horrors he had experienced and how deeply the wounds=
 cut.

By early afternoon, a chill was returning and they packed up and headed
home. Clark went upstairs to shower and Lois went to the kitchen to ask
Martha how she could help with dinner. Martha sent Lois out to the chicken
house for eggs.

CONTINUED IN PART 4
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:39 -0600
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 4/8
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*******************************
Since Lois had been with Clark all day, she had avoided thinking too much
about what she had learned. Clark had finally opened up somewhat and shared
with her some of his experiences on New Krypton. However, she couldn't help
but feel he was still holding back. She didn't need her reporter's instinct
to tell her that much. Her love for Clark and desire to know him at his very
core told her that he was still guarding something. Was he protecting her
>from the revelation or was he protecting himself from having to relive it
or
deal with it?=20

She mulled these things over as she gathered the eggs and placed them in the
basket. Holding a still warm egg in her hand, she was reminded of an
experiment from elementary school. She closed her fingers around the egg and
squeezed. Placing equal pressure on the fragile shell protected the egg and
she couldn't crack it. It was only when she exerted pressure on a specific
spot that the shell gave way. Lois desperately hoped that Clark had been
protected. Was his heart still intact? Could he face his demons and move
past them?

Lois' heart was full of anguish and fear and she had held it in all day,
making her own effort to protect the one she loved. As she approached the
house in the twilight of the day, the smell of dinner cooking and the warm
lights of the porch made her hesitate. Everything seemed in its place on the
outside but she knew that turmoil lurked in the shadows, waiting to claim
Clark under the covering of night. And now, for her, some of the demons had
faces. She stopped. Lois pulled back around the corner of the well house and
leaned against the cool stucco. A heartwrenching sob welled up in her and
such sadness gripped her that it felt like her heart was in a vice. All day,
she had been brave for Clark, not wanting him to see how much she hurt for
him but now, she had to let some of that out or she wouldn't be able to face
him. He couldn't see her cry. Not now. She needed to be strong to comfort
him and hold him.

Her tears overwhelmed her and she pressed the back of her hand to her mouth
to keep the sobs from escaping. She slid down the wall to a sitting position
and the basket of eggs slipped from her hand and spilled onto the ground.
Lois pulled her knees close and continued to try to stifle her cries, hoping
to get a grip on her emotions.

In the kitchen, Martha came to the point in her cooking where she needed the
eggs she had sent Lois for. A sufficient amount of time had passed for Lois
to accomplish the task and Martha wondered if the rooster had cornered her
again. When Lois had first been out to the chicken house, she had trouble
rousting the setting hens from their nests and had had an unfortunate run-in
with the rooster. The rooster had backed her into the feed room and,
fortunately, Martha had come and shown her how to make the rooster back
down. Martha wondered if the same thing had not happened again so she turned
off the burners under dinner and headed out the back door.=20

As Martha's eyes adjusted to the dark, she noticed some eggs lying on the
lawn. She walked briskly to the corner of the well house and stopped in her
tracks when she saw Lois, obviously distraught, curled up next to the wall.
Dropping to her knees beside Lois, she placed a hand on the younger woman's
back. Lois started at the touch, so consumed was she by her grief that she
had not heard Martha approach.=20

"Lois, Dear, has something happened?"

"Oh, Martha!" and with that, Lois fell against Martha and Martha comforted
Lois by stroking her hair and patting her back.

When Lois felt like she could speak without breaking down again, she wiped
her face and squared her shoulders. "Oh, Martha. I saw it today. I mean,
Clark showed me and I can't get the images out of my head."

Martha was confused by Lois' admission but knew that Lois must have been
rattled by the experience and would explain when she could. However, Martha
was concerned that this had everything to do with her son and wanted to know
more. "What happened today, Dear? Did something happen to Clark? Is he all
right?"

"It's not what happened today, Martha. It's what happened to Clark while he
was on New Krypton. He was=85." and Lois hesitated, realizing how hard it=
 must
have been for Clark to make the admission. "He was beaten."

Martha covered her mouth with her hand and tears welled up in her eyes.

"Martha, the things Clark must have endured and been subjected to. I cannot
even fathom how such a gentle, sweet man could face such atrocities and go
on." Lois knew Martha needed to know more and so she explained. "Clark
showed me his wrists where he had been bound, and his back, where he had
been beaten. He said Lord Nor's men did this to him when he was captured. He
has scars from fights, as well. Martha, Clark has never purposely hurt
another person in his life, even though he is the strongest man alive. And
now, he carries the scars from battles and attacks and my heart is breaking
because I know how tender his heart is. How can he endure?" and with that
Martha pulled Lois into a hug and each woman cried for a man they loved.

Martha pulled away first and took a tissue from the pocket of her apron to
wipe the tears, first from Lois' eyes and then from her own. "Yes, Clark is
gentle and tender but he has a strength that has nothing to do with his
super powers. And he has us to help love him through this."

"I do love him, Martha. But my heart is breaking and I don't want Clark to
know."

"Maybe he should know, Lois. It's one way to demonstrate your love for him,
that you hurt when he does and you rejoice when he is glad. Don't hide from
him, Lois. Be honest with him and give him the freedom to do the same. The
fact that he kept this from us by not talking about it and trying to hide
the scars is his way of protecting us. Help him to see that you aren't
afraid of what he still has to reveal because I think he is hiding more and
it may be worse than what he's already shown you."

Lois took in all that Martha had to say. She knew the older woman was wise
in the ways of her son and in matters of the heart and Lois would do
anything to help Clark be whole again.

CONTINUED IN PART 5
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:45 -0600
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 5/8
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*******************************
The evening passed uneventfully and soon it was time for bed. Lois made her
way to Clark's room to say goodnight, as was her evening ritual. She had
thought a lot about Martha's advice and how she could implement it. These
thoughts were on her mind as she sat beside Clark, who was reclining in bed.

The couple did not speak immediately, each enjoying just being together.
"It's been quite a day, hasn't it?" he began.

"Yes, it has. Clark, thank you for being honest with me today. For showing
me what you did." Even  now, Lois had trouble putting what she had seen into
words. "I know it must have been very hard for you to do but I won't ever
turn away from you=85even when it hurts."

Clark tensed at Lois' last comment. "I'm sorry, Lois. I never meant to hurt
you."

Lois hastened to reassure him. "No! Don't be afraid to tell me when it
hurts. I want to be there. And if that means hurting with you=85then I'm not
afraid. I'm not here just for the good times."

Clark remembered her family's approach to problems, the way they avoided
talking about them till the problems drove them apart. Then he thought about
his own family, how his parents talked about everything, even when it hurt.
"How did this happen? How is it you face problems head on when your parents
ran from them and I try to hide my problems when my parents taught me to
stand up to them?"

"I don't know. I just know I want us to be open about how we're feeling. I
don't want to hide and keep secrets." Lois said.

Clark smiled. "Thank you for that gift."

Lois leaned down to brush her lips to Clark's and then sat back up. "I
thought I'd read you a bedtime story tonight."

"Feeling motherly toward me, are you?" Clark teased.

"Anything but, Buster, so you be a good boy." Lois reached behind her for
the book.

"This story is Guess How Much I Love You." Lois laid down in the crook of
Clark's arm and began to read.

*He wanted to be sure that Big Nutbrown Hare was listening.=20
'Guess how much I love you,' he said.
'Oh, I don't' think I could guess that,' said Big Nutbrown Hare.

"This much," said Little Nutbrown Hare, stretching out his arms as wide as
they could go.
Big Nutbrown Hare had even longer arms. "But I love you this much," he said.
Hmm, that is a lot, thought Little Nutbrown Hare.

"I love you as high as I can reach," said Little Nutbrown Hare.
"I love you as high as I can reach," said Big Nutbrown Hare. That is very
high, thought Little Nutbrown Hare. I wish I had arms like that.

Then Little Nutbrown Hare had a good idea. He tumbled upside down and
reached up the tree trunk with his feet. "I love you all the way up to my
toes!" he said.
"And I love you all the way to your toes," said Big Nutbrown Hare, swinging
him up over his head.

"I love you as high as I can hop!" laughed Little Nutbrown Hare, bouncing up
and down.
"But I love you as high as I can hop," smiled Big Nutbrown Hare - and he
hopped so high that his ears touched the branches above. That's good
hopping, thought Little Nutbrown Hare. I wish I could hop like that.

"I love you all the way down the lane as far as the river," cried Little
Nutbrown Hare. "I love you across the river and over the hills," said Big
Nutbrown Hare.
That's very far, thought Little Nutbrown Hare. He was almost too sleepy to
think anymore. Then he looked beyond the thornbushes, out into the big dark
night. Nothing could be farther than the sky.

"I love you right up to the moon," he said, and closed his eyes.
"Oh, that's far," said Big Nutbrown Hare. "That is very, very far." Big
Nutbrown Hare settled Little Nutbrown Hare into his bed of leaves.*

Lois sat up and placed a hand on Clark's chest.

*He leaned over and kissed him good night.*=20

Which she did.

Then he lay down close by and whispered with a smile,* and Lois set the book
aside and said, *"I love you right up to the moon - and back."*

Lois drew aimless patterns on Clark's chest through his t-shirt. "Do you
think you could take this off tonight? I mean, unless you're really cold."

Clark shook his head and smiled. "I'm definitely not cold." And with that,
he sat up and reached behind his head to grab the neck of the shirt. He
pulled it off in one motion to toss it on the floor. When he lay down again,
Lois went back to stroking Clark's chest. The soft touch of Lois' fingers
and the way she bit on her bottom lip in concentration was undoing Clark's
resolve. When Lois leaned down to brush her lips across a nipple, he
couldn't keep a moan from escaping. Lois looked up at the sound and said,
"Is this okay?"

"Yes," Clark breathed and Lois continued her assault. She kissed her way to
his abdomen and trailed kisses specifically along the scar across his
stomach. Clark arched into her touch and she began to work her way back up
to his other nipple, all the while stroking Clark's sides. Clark entwined
his fingers in Lois' hair and massaged her neck, encouraging her to
continue. She reached the scar at his shoulder and placed light kisses there
before moving on to his neck. She wasn't so gentle there as she licked and
sucked her way to his earlobe. By this time, she was prostrate on top of
Clark and he had moved his hands under her shirt to stroke her bare back.
The sensation of Lois pressed against his reclining form, her mouth doing
wonderful things to his neck, and the silky feel of her skin under his hands
had Clark gasping. Clark's state of arousal finally registered to Lois. She,
herself, had been lost in the same sensations and pulled away to take a deep
breath.

She groaned. "When are you going to marry me, Kent, and make an honest woman
of me?"

"What are you doing tonight?"

"Probably taking a cold shower, after this." She replied.

"Want some company?"=20

They both had to laugh at the situation they had gotten themselves in to and
Lois sat up. "I think this is where I make my exit."

Clark cupped Lois' face in his hand and said, "'We love those who know the
worst of us and don't turn their faces away.' Thank you for loving me,=
 Lois."

Lois smiled and blinked back tears. "Sometimes I forget how different you
are from other men I've known, Clark Kent. Good night." With that, she
slipped from the room, not knowing the chain of events her comment would set
into motion that night.

CONTINUED IN PART 6

Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:04:56 -0600
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 6/8
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*******************************
It had been 17 days since Clark's return and, from the first night, Lois had
gone to him when the nightmares came. Tonight, she heard the rhythmic
thumping and she quickened her step. Although her presence had yet to keep
Clark from experiencing his
recurring dream, she had wanted to arrive before he started his nightly
rocking. She entered the room and was startled by what she saw. Clark wasn't
in bed. In fact, the bed was practically dismantled. The mattress was off
and leaning against the box springs. The sheets had been pulled off and were
lying on the floor.

Lois zeroed in on the thumping sound in the dimly lit room and found Clark
squeezed into the space between the wall and his old dresser. He was
mumbling his chant and banging his head. Lois rushed to him and was shocked
to see that his head was bleeding over his right eye from where he was
hitting his head against the dresser. Lois called to him as she pressed her
hand to his head to stem the trickle of blood. Clark continued rocking but
Lois' hand now took the brunt of the blows. In the back of her mind, Lois
was thankful Clark's super powers had yet to return.

Lois grasped Clark's forearm and tried to pull him from his hiding place but
he wouldn't budge. She was beginning to panic when she heard Martha enter
the room.

"Lois?"

"Martha! Help! I can't wake Clark up."

Jonathan entered the room with Martha and they set to work. Martha saw that
Clark was bleeding and went for a wet washcloth and some ice. Jonathan
leaned into the dresser and pushed it away from Clark. Then he moved to the
bed to set it right.

Lois squeezed in beside Clark to hold him and he seemed to calm somewhat.
Martha returned to clean Clark's cut. Once the blood was washed away, she
was relieved to see it wasn't deep. She used two butterfly Band-Aids to
close the cut. Jonathan came back to help Lois move Clark to the bed. Clark
didn't fight their help and it was obvious he was not awake.

Martha pulled the covers back so that Lois and Jonathan could put Clark to
bed. Lois lay down beside Clark and he snuggled in beside her. Martha placed
a clean, dry cloth over his eye and gave Lois the ice pack. She leaned down
to kiss Clark on the forehead, then did the same for Lois. "We'll just be
down the hall if you need anything."

Lois let out the breath she had been holding and mouthed, "Thank you."
before laying her cheek against the top of Clark's head.

Jonathan and Martha went to their bedroom and climbed into bed, moving to
the middle so that they could lie together.

"Clark and I are going fishing tomorrow, Martha. It's time we had a talk."

Martha hugged Jonathan tighter and said a prayer of thanks for her husband.

*******************************
Jonathan chose a secluded spot on the river for their morning of fishing.
The weren't likely to catch much here but fishing was the last thing on
Jonathan's mind. He knew his boy was hurting and he wanted to help. How he
would do this was another matter.

Jonathan steered clear of discussing Clark's nightmare until midmorning,
when they'd had time for the joy of fishing to do it's work of relaxing the
mind and body. Never one to beat around the bush though, Jonathan jumped
right in when he felt the time was right. "Clark, we need to talk about what
happened last night."

Clark looked somewhat sheepish. "You mean my dream?"

Jonathan couldn't help but smile at the understatement. "Yeah, but nightmare
is more like it. You're obviously dealing with something that's got you
spooked. What is it that's haunting you, Son? What is this nightmare about?"

Clark sighed in frustration. "That's just it, Dad. I don't know. I mean, I
don't remember what the dream's about. I just wake up sore and tired and I
don't remember anything."

"Nothing? You don't remember anything about the dream? Have you tried to
think about what happens when you have this dream?" Jonathan couldn't help
but think there was more.

"Don't you think I've tried to remember!" Clark was obviously upset. "I'm
sorry, Dad. I know you just want to help but I honestly don't remember. I
wish I could. It's so frustrating."

"Well, Lois has tried to wake you from the nightmare and, I know from last
night, you can't be roused. We had you up and walking and your mother used a
wet cloth on your face and that didn't wake you. Maybe we could get a
counselor who could help you remember the dream and how to deal with it."

"How, Dad? Superman's not back yet and Clark Kent never had the kind of
experiences that would cause this sort of reaction." Clark shook his head.
"No. it's been a year since I maintained two separate identities. I don't
think I'm ready to do that again with someone who's a professional at
getting to the bottom of things."

They both stared at the corks on their lines and tried to figure out a
course of action.

Finally, Clark spoke. "Dad? Have you known men who've come back from war?"

"Sure." Jonathan wasn't certain what Clark wanted to know so he waited for
him to ask more.

"What were they like when they came home? I mean, how did they deal with
their wartime experiences?"

Jonathan thought a moment and replied, "There were some fellas that seemed
to step right back into the life they had left but there were some guys who
didn't. They really struggled."

Clark forged on. "What do you mean struggled?

"Well, they had a hard time relating to their families again and holding
down any jobs."

"Why do you think there were some who made it and other who didn't?"

"Well, I suppose some of it had to do with the type of action they saw and
how much of it they saw. Another big part of it was probably their
personality. And I guess it seemed to help if they had someone or something
to come home to." Jonathan hesitated and added, "But there were some that
just never did seem to fit in again. It was like they didn't belong
anymore."

CONTINUED IN PART 7
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:05:00 -0600
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Subject:      The Power to Forgive 7/8
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****************
Martha and Jonathan made their excuses and left for an overnight stay in
Wichita. Both knew that Lois and Clark would enjoy the time alone and
probably needed it. After all, they were adults used to living on their own,
not with their parents.

Lois had insisted that Clark take a nap while she prepared dinner. She
enjoyed surprising Clark with her emerging skills as a cook. Lois arranged
the table with candlelight and china, hoping to set the mood for a relaxing
yet romantic evening. Clark was duly impressed with her efforts and took
every opportunity to shower her with sincere compliments. He commented on
her cooking, choice of menu, ambience, and looks but mostly her=
 thoughtfulness.

After they had finished dessert, Clark invited Lois into the den and, while
she sat on the couch, he went to the bookcase to retrieve a thin book.

"I want to read you something from one of my favorite poets. Guess I was
inspired when you read to me the other night."

Lois situated herself in the corner of the couch,  waiting in anticipation.
She always appreciated these glimpses into Clark's interests.

Clark sat on the edge of the couch, resting his elbows on his knees. "This
guy had a local TV show in New Orleans. I caught it one summer when I worked
down there. It was called 'Jim Metcalf's Journal'. He would introduce us to
the local flavor by taking us to visit folks in south Louisiana- just
ordinary people living extraordinary lives. He would start the show by
saying 'And now, please to begin.' And he'd finish it with one of his poems.
He really had such a way with words."

Lois raised her eyebrows, "Had?"

"Yeah, he died of cancer several years ago. I got Mom all four of his books.
I knew she'd love his work, too."

Clark opened the thin book and began.

"The title of the poem is 'Some Other Time Around'"
*I think we must have loved
before.
somewhere=85
some other time around.
but I cannot recall
the setting
or the years.

I think the part I can remember=85
the part I'm calling now is but a page=85
a line or two, perhaps,
>From a story that began
a long, long time ago;
when God was younger
and the world was newer
and we played other roles.

And when we turned to darkness,=20
when we no longer were,
the love we shared
somehow survived
and lived the centuries through.
Then we came back and claimed it
and thought that it was new.

We did not remember
that we had it for our own before.

We did not know=20
it had grown stronger
while we were away.

I look at you
and wonder
what other times
we've shared.

I might have seen your face
through midnight fog at Stonehenge.
Or seen the fires
when Rome burned,
reflected=20
in your eyes.

But I cannot recall.

I hope that if we meet again
Ten thousand years from now,
I will remember=20
how you look tonight=85
this moment=85
just before
I kiss you.*

And Clark did just that.

Lois blinked back tears. "That's beautiful, Clark. It's almost like he knows
us. Did you ever get to meet him?"

"He spoke at Tulane and he autographed a book for me. I really wish I'd had
a chance to just sit and talk with him. A book signing is so impersonal."
Clark closed the book and pushed back from the table. "Now, I'd like  you to
relax on the couch while I do the dishes."

Lois smiled. "Deal." She moved into the den and Clark called to her.

"Why don't you put some music on?"

Lois went to the stereo and found some Van Morrison. She cued up the CD to
'Moondance' and turned it up enough for Clark to hear in the kitchen. When
the music started to play, she swayed to the music, dancing her way to the
door into the kitchen. There, she stopped and leaned against the door jam, a
smile spreading across her face. Clark was also swaying to the music,
dancing as one always should - as if no one is looking. She continued to
watch and was especially intrigued by the move Clark did with his hips. She
was amazed again at how naturally sensual Clark was. The sexual tension was
broken for her, though, when Clark finished putting the dishes away and used
the whisk he was drying as a microphone, singing along.=20

*"And every.. time I touch you, you'll just tremble inside.
I know.. how much you want me then. You can't hide.=20
Can I just have one more moondance with you.. my love.
Can I just make some more romance with you.. my love."

During the interlude, Lois went to Clark and wrapped her arms around his
waist from behind. Clark grinned and turned around. They began dancing
together. The tune was conducive to swing dancing and they twirled and
swayed one another around the kitchen. Lois sang the last of the song to
Clark and he finished the song by dipping Lois. It felt good to laugh
together again and Clark pulled Lois into a hug. The next song on the CD
began, 'Crazy Love', and Clark pulled back, "May I have this dance?"

Lois looked up at Clark, love showing in her eyes and said, "Yes."

Clark moved to take Lois' hand and they began to sway. They continued to
gaze into one another's eyes, the lightness of the previous dance gone,
replaced by a smoldering sensuality. Each played with the other's hand,
stroking and intertwining their fingers.

*I can hear her heart beat for a thousand miles
And the heavens open every time she smiles
And when I come to her that's where I belong
Yet I'm running to her like a river's song=20

She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love
She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love=20

"I like this song." Clark whispered. He leaned in, brushing his cheek
against Lois'. "It reminds me of you." He whispered.

*She's got a fine sense of humor when I'm feeling low down
And when I come to her when the sun goes down
She takes away my trouble, take away my grief
Take away my heartache, I go right to sleep=20

Clark's voice close to her ear, the rumble of his chest, the way he was
holding her, the sweet message of the song --all these touched Lois. She
stroked Clark's hair and the back of his neck, nuzzling his neck with her=
 lips.

Clark released her hand, where it rested on his chest and moved to encircle
her waist. He began drawing delicious patterns on her back, alternating firm
strokes with feather light ones. He did not contain himself to her back but
stroked her sides, making Lois shift. Part of it was ticklish but most of it
was very erotic to her.

* Yes I need her in the daytime
Yes I need her in the night
Yes I want to throw my arms around her
Kiss her hug her kiss her hug her tight

And when I'm returning from so far away
She gives me some sweet lovin' brighten up my day
Yes it makes me feel righteous, yes it makes me feel whole
Yes it makes me feel mellow down to my soul=20

She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love
She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love=20

She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love
She give me love, love, love, love, crazy love=20

Lois' hands were not still either. She stroked Clark's chest and then moved
out to his arm, squeezing his biceps and then moving to his shoulder and
back. She moved from kissing his neck to his face, feathering light kisses
at the corner of his mouth and teasing his lips, pulling the bottom one into
a kiss.

Clark leaned down to deepen the kiss, moving one of his hands up to tangle
itself in her hair. His other hand moved lower, pressing her lower body into
closer contact with his as they continued to sway to the music. Lois also
moved to Clark's lower back and she slipped her hands into his back pockets,
enjoying the movement of muscle and flesh. By now, their kissing had become
quite passionate. When the music ended Clark pulled back, breathing heavily.
He looked down at Lois' lips, inviting after the attention they had
received, and said, "Maybe we should take a walk. It's pretty brisk=
 outside."

Lois swallowed to regain some of her composure and backed away from Clark.
"Yeah, brisk is nice."

CONTINUED IN PART 8
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 21:05:09 -0600
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         "Sharon L. Gilbert" <sgilbert@DDYNE.COM>
Subject:      The Power to Forgive 8/8
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**********
The walk in the cool night air helped them end the evening on a more relaxed
note. This time, Clark came downstairs to tuck Lois in and kiss her
goodnight. He had not been able to convince her to take back his bed even
though she insisted she was comfortable on the couch. Clark sat beside Lois
and made sure the covers were pulled up tight. He was playing with the lock
of hair that fell across her forehead. He smiled and said, "Good night." And
sweetly kissed her lips. "Sweet dreams." Another kiss. "I love you." The
last kiss lingered.

Lois smiled back. "Good night. Sweet dreams. I love you, too." She
remembered the first time Clark had said that to her, when he had been
particularly tired from a long rescue as Superman and she had helped him to
bed. Before turning over to fall asleep, he had mumbled, "Goo nigh,
sweedreams, I loveyou." The next day, when they met for breakfast, Lois
asked him what he had said before falling asleep the night before. She had
to mimic what she thought she had heard and Clark laughed at her
interpretation. Then he explained that, from the time he was a small child,
he and his parents had always said goodnight to one another by saying, "Good
night. Sweet dreams. I love you." In fact, they had said it each night for
as long as he could remember so that they often said it as one long phrase.
He guessed he must have done the same thing last night because he was so
tired and the phrase was such an ingrained nightly ritual.

During the night, Lois woke as usual to go to Clark. She moved to the stairs
and paused at the first step, trying to hone in on a unfamiliar sound. It
wasn't coming from upstairs, as she would have expected, but seemed to be
coming from outside. She called out Clark's name, not really expecting a
response but feeling better having said it. She turned and headed towards
the back door, grabbing her jacket on the way. Once on the porch, she could
distinctly hear the sound of someone chopping wood and speaking in a loud
voice. She recognized the voice as Clark's. Alarmed, she hurried to the
grove of trees behind the washhouse where the woodpile was. She pulled up
when she saw Clark. He was dressed in sweats and was methodically picking up
a piece of wood, placing it on the block, and splitting it with one forceful
blow of the axe. As he struck the wood, he would say something. She moved
closer, realizing Clark had not yet noticed her watching.

"My name is Clark KENT." And down came the axe.
"My PARENTS are Jonathan and Martha Kent!" With each sentence, he split
another piece of wood.
"I was raised in Smallville, KANSAS!
I LIVE in Metropolis, New Troy!
I am a REPORTER for the Daily Planet!
I LOVE Lois Lane
and she's going to marry ME!"
He picked up a bigger piece of wood and reared back.
"I DO BELONG!" he roared to the night sky as he came down hard on the wood.

Lois' heart broke to see Clark in such a state, realizing this was the
litany he had chanted each night he had been home. She called to him,=
 "Clark?"

Clark started at his name and he seemed to need a moment before he could
focus on Lois. When he looked at her, Lois could see the tears streaming
down his face. She held out her arms. "Oh, Baby." she whispered.

Clark dropped the axe and stumbled towards her. Before he reached her
though, he dropped to his knees and Lois closed the gap. Clark threw his
arms around Lois' waist and deep, wracking sobs came from him. Lois held him
with all her strength, stroking his hair and shoulders and speaking to him
in a soft but firm voice. "I'm right here, Clark. I love you. I love you so
much. We're going to get through this." She continued reassuring him and
rocking him as one would a child who's heart is breaking.

Clark began to speak through his tears. "I was wrong, Lois. I was so wrong.
I made us suffer. Everyone I loved suffered because I was dupped. I was a
fool and we all had to pay. I'm so sorry."

Lois had no idea what Clark was talking about but she sensed he needed to
pour his heart out and she didn't want to stop the flow.

Clark spoke passionately. "I went to New Krypton because I thought they were
my people, a part of my parents. I thought Zara and Ching's cause was noble
and that I had an obligation to my birth parents to live up to my
responsibilities, my birthright." Clark cried out. "But what I gave up -
what I asked you to give up - was more precious than their cause. Their
cause was selfish and wrong. I went thinking they were a utopian society,
advanced in their ways." Clark paused. "They weren't," he said with scorn.
"New Krypton's society is backwards and built on privilege or servitude by
virtue of your birth and not anything you've done. The nobles rule the land
and keep a whole group of people as their slaves with no rights and no hope
of every having anything better for themselves or their children, no matter
how hard they work."

Clark leaned back on his heels and looked up into Lois' face. He struggled
to get his emotions under control. "They didn't see it was wrong. They
didn't see that owning another man and trading his family as if they were
goods and not people was wrong. Even Zara and Ching. They just wanted to
maintain their status and they wanted me to help them accomplish this. They
tried to convince me that everyone would suffer under Lord Nor's rule but at
least some would prosper under their command. I didn't know what to do. I
was so angry that I had been fooled. That I had torn myself from you and now
I just wanted to come home. To wash my hands of the whole thing."

Lois held Clark's face in her hands and wiped the tears from his cheek's
with her thumbs. "You're no fool. You did what you thought was right based
the information you had. I believed them, too."

Clark shook his head. "No, you don't understand what I did." Clark lowered
his head, unable to look Lois in the eye. "I =85." He swallowed and pursed=
 his
lips. "I =85killed Nor."

Lois pulled Clark to her again, holding him and trying to convey her love
for him. She didn't know what to say - how to tell him all that was going
through her mind and heart at that moment. That Clark had acted out of a
desperate situation, she was sure. She knew he was gentle, even with his
immense strength. Lois wondered at what must have happened to drive him to
this point.

"I couldn't fight as Zara and the other nobles did, the Elite. They stayed
in the safety of their palaces and sent the people they owned to do their
fighting. They called them Expendables." At this admission, Clark shook his
head in disgust. "Nor, even though he called himself a Lord, was not a true
Elite and he made no pretense about hating war. I believed he loved it. He
loved the blood. It was sport for him. He joined in with no fear that he
would be killed. He had too many Expendables around him who would die=
 first."

"I decided if I was bound by my birth to be a part of this fight, then
fight, I would- right along side the Expendables. Zara and the others warned
me of the danger of my actions. If I were captured by Nor's men, he could
force an end to the war and be the victor. I was willing to take that
chance." Clark stood and led Lois to a plain wooden bench situated against
the washhouse.

They both sat down, Lois continuing to hold Clark's hands. "But you were
captured," she said.

"Yes. I was taken before Nor. He saw this as a gift, an easy way to drive
the ruling Elite to their knees in submission to his will. He planned to use
me to force their surrender. He knew their ways, that they were willing to
sacrifice Expendables but were squeamish when it came to their own." Clark
paused as if to bolster himself for the next part of the story. Lois reached
out to caress his neck and stroke his shoulders. This seemed to strengthen
him and he continued.

"Hair is part of a noble's image so my head was shaved. I was stripped and
hung by my wrists to receive my punishment."

Lois pulled Clark to her, resting her cheek against his. Who was comforting
whom at this point was difficult to tell. Clark straightened up but didn't
look Lois in the eye yet.

"The physical punishment=85I could take. It was when Nor came to me in the
middle of the night. He would kick me 'til I woke up and stood at attention.
Then he would shine a bright light in my eyes and begin his tirade." At
this, Clark stood and began pacing, his voice changing to sound like one
possessed with the cancer of evil.

"You are no man, Lord Kal-El. You are neither noble, nor Krytonian, nor
Earthling. You are a mongrel, raised by a weak people with no stomach for
battle or power or rule. Why do you persist in prolonging your suffering?
Why must you make me go to such lengths? Give up your fight and be done!
Maybe in death you will find a place to belong because you don't belong
here. The Elite use you for their purposes. The Expendables will let you do
their work. And the Earthlings=85the Earthlings fear you for your=
 differences.
You are a creature alone in the vast universe. Give up, Kal-El=85Clark Kent.
Give up." With that, Clark stopped his pacing and turned to face Lois. He
had such a look of despair on his face but he continued.

"I began to recite all the things I knew were true about myself and
home=85here. I had to hold on to that or he would win."

Lois reached out for Clark and he joined her again sitting at her feet and
resting his head on her lap. "Nor wanted me to publicly renounce my claim to
nobility and kill myself. Then he could rightfully make his claim. He could
not kill me. I had to do it myself=85.but I just wouldn't give up. Not when=
 I
thought about you and Mom and Dad and home."

"Oh, Clark." Lois was truly at a loss for words.

"Nor's punishments and speeches continued for 2 weeks. I was exhausted and
began to plan in my heart how I would kill Nor. He became the target for my
hatred of what I had become, what I had done - all the fighting and pain and
suffering. It was the 17th day of my captivity that I made my move. Nor had
become very lax in his approach to me. He was confident I would pose no
threat to him physically so I lay in wait for him that night. I grabbed him
>from behind when he entered my cell and threw him to the ground. I went
straight for his throat and began to squeeze." At this, Clark mimicked the
behavior on the ground at Lois'  feet. "Nor had a thick neck but my hands
fit so well that it was easy to apply pressure and release it, watching his
eyes grow wide and his mouth move with no sound."

Lois put her hand to her mouth, not wanting Clark to hear her cry.=20

He relaxed and rested his hands on his thighs. "But I let him go. I couldn't
do it. Not because I valued his life but because I was disgusted with
myself. He would win if I killed him. The war would be over because he would
be dead but I would be the loser for having been forced to do it. I didn't
want to bring that home to you. But it doesn't seem like I've saved you from
any of the suffering."

Lois reached out and pulled Clark to her. He rested his head on her lap
again. "How did Nor die, then?"

"It was that night that three Expendables came to free me. They came in the
door as Nor was recovering. They didn't see him and he was able to kill one
before I could warn them. I threw myself on Nor and we fought for his
weapon. It went off and he was killed. I carried him out on my shoulders to
show that the war was over. The rebel leader was dead. The ruling Elite were
only too happy to let me come home."

Clark grew quiet then and Lois held him and stroked his back and head,
attempting to communicate to him her love and acceptance of him, no matter
what he had done. She knew he took full responsibility for his actions, no
matter the circumstances that drove him to that place. But now, he had told
her the whole story of what he'd done and seen and it was up to her to help
him through it, to see that he was still loved and accepted and worthy of
that place in her heart.
"I love you, Clark, and nothing you've told me tonight changes that. I know
the man you are. I've seen your heart and your soul has touched mine. You
went to New Krypton out of a sense of duty to a people you didn't know and,
even there, you fought for those who needed your help. Not for those who
would try to own you. Nor died because he put himself in that place. He made
himself the rebel leader and he didn't want to free the Expendables. He
wanted to enslave them and more. When he died at your hands, he was trying
to kill the very people you were fighting for and you can't take the blame,
just because in your heart you wanted to kill him and even tried."=20

At this, Lois took Clark's face in her hands so that she could look him in
the eye. "You let him go and now you have to let him go again. You have to
forgive yourself. Forgive yourself for being fooled by Zara and Ching. I was
fooled by them. Forgive yourself for the part you played in Nor's death. You
didn't kill him with malice in your heart. You killed him to save another's
life." Then she paused to make sure she had Clark's full attention. "You
haven't done anything to make me love you less. That something just doesn't
exist. My love for you is forever=85just because it is."

Lois knew it would take time for Clark to work through everything but she
was confident now that he would be all right. They would both be all right.
The demons had faces now and had lost much of their power. When they could
talk about it in the light, she knew he would be free and she would be there
all along the way, helping him.=20

Clark stood and pulled Lois into his embrace, drawing life from her. "I'm
tired now." He said and then her attempted a smile. "I think I'd like to
rest." And Lois knew the healing had begun.

The end

I'd like to thank the folks who volunteered to proofread for me. You guys
were great. Don't even know ya' but you stepped right up and helped and I
appreciate it.

Here are the references for the songs, story and poems from the fanfiction.
Sorry, I don't know the dates on Van Morrison's music.

McBratney, S. (1994). Guess How Much I Love You. Cambridge, MA: Candlewick.

Metcalf, J. (1975). In Some Quiet Place. Gretna, LA: Pelican.

Morrison, V. (19??). Moondance.

Morrison, V. (19??). Crazy Love.
Sharon L. Gilbert
~~~~~~~Work like you don't need the money.
**********Love like you won't get hurt.
`````````````Dance like no one's looking
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:15:03 -0500
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
From:         Karen Ward <ward8120@MACH1.WLU.CA>
Subject:      Re: Writer's Showcase
In-Reply-To:  <dfb13cdb.36e330b6@aol.com>
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>Hello,

Hiya! :)

>The Writer's Showcase has a new Featured Writer of the Week.  She is an
Irish
>Floc who now lives in England.

Hmm . . . not that it makes a huge difference, but I'm pretty sure that
this week's featured writer has never even set foot in Europe (but she
definitely would like to someday). ;)

>She, also, is a talented writer who gave a very interesting interview.

Hmm . . . I can't say that I think she's talented either, but I'm sure she
appreciates you saying so. ;)

Thanks, Annie, for all the work you've done on the Writer's Showcase.  I've
enjoyed visiting it on nearly a weekly basis since it's inauguration, and
look forward to visiting it many more times in the future! :)

Sincerely,
Karen :)
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Date:         Sun, 7 Mar 1999 23:50:04 EST
Reply-To:     "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
              <LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU>
Sender:       "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic"
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From:         "Ann E. McBride" <Aerm1@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: L&C on TNT
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I e-mailed TNT and have yet to receive any response at all.

Ann