From: "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" To: "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil" File: "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9809C" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:50:09 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Fanfic Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone on a fanfic writers list I'm on asked a question that might interest us on the L&C fanfic list... Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:55:32 -0700 To: fanfic_writers-l@lists.io.com From: Lizard Subject: Re: Recommended Resources Sender: owner-fanfic_writers-l@lists.io.com At 09:17 PM 9/12/98 +0000, Nora wrote: >Hi, all. Decided I'd break the current zen-like silence by putting out a >request. I'm putting together a page of how-to resources for fanfiction >writers, and I'm stumped as to what sources there might be out there >*online* for folks like us. I'm citing the FWML, of course, but I can't >think of any others. Can anyone else? > Well, archives are a good place to start, since learning by example is helfpul. Ditto, the various ".creative" usenet groups. One excellent resource I've found is http://www.sff.net/people/Fan.Fiction/FanFicWeb/index.html, probably the most complete fanfic site I've seen. ***** (other replies) Actually, there seems to be a lot of good stuff online. There's Dr. Merlin's Guide to Fan Fiction, at http://www.umr.edu/~mrwilson/library/guide.txt and this site: http://patriot.net/~rjpugh/writer/index.html has a lot of good stuff, too. Lizard mentioned archives to serve as examples, so if you're looking for any of those, I'm sure we could dig some up for you. The one that comes to mind off the top of my head is the Star Wars fanfic archive at http://www.fanfix.com ***** > And for my last two cents, I'll again offer the use of my Grammar Guide web > site (recently updated) to anyone who'd like a refresher course in the basics. > It's by no means complete or perfect, but I've been it's been of great help to > many fanfic writers. > > The English Department: > > http://members.aol.com/DangerMom/guide.html > > DangerMom ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:40:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: demona Subject: OT: LCFLP Multimedia Update In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980915232208.00ad9e10@cryogen.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hiya FoLCs! :) It is with *much* pleasure that I'd like to 'officially' unveil the brand new, totally revamped image of the "Lois & Clark Fantasy Land Pages" Webserver! While the site will perpetually be under construction as it begins the process of integration with the resources of the former "L&C Webserver", and archiving a great deal more audio/visual material -- those of you with snazzy power-computers might want to take a look at what's new! ;) For FoLCs with older browsers and/or computers, the site now exists in two formats. The old format is still accessible off of the main page, should you have a 640x480 screen resolution, low RAM (memory), or require an all text version. But the brand new multimedia format is now *also* available off of the same location at: http://destinyy.com/lcfantasy Huge thanks to the great FoLCs who 'beta-tested' for me! Once again, while the old pages remain the same, the new enhanced pages are multimedia intense, I want to warn slower computers one more time... unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you'll need a fairly up-to-date system to handle the load. The good news is...I'm hoping FoLcs will enjoy what's already been done, and revisit us, since there's more to come. ;) ** You will require the shockwave plugin to view the new design. It should prompt you with a blue button to download shockwave if you need to. Best All! ~~Demi~~ LCFLP at: lnc@cryogen.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:22:26 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dearest Debby: Thank-you so much for bringing those websites to our attention! I've bookmarked them all, and as soon as I can find the time, I'll be checking them. I know that there are a ton of die-hard writers out there, and that LNC isn't the only fanfic you write. What are some of those sites? And what do you write, other than LNC? Now's the time to toot your own horns while the list is slow! And Farah, if you think it's too off-topic (since it's not strictly LNC) tell us now, and if that's the case FoLCs, please email me privately. Marie ChoirGirl2@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:39:49 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources In-Reply-To: <23d4fd8.36006452@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:22 PM 9/16/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Dearest Debby: ohhhh! :) >Thank-you so much for bringing those websites to our attention! I've >bookmarked them all, and as soon as I can find the time, I'll be checking >them. Me, too, probably :) >I know that there are a ton of die-hard writers out there, and that LNC isn't >the only fanfic you write. Me, I've written a bit for The Prisoner, but that was back in the 1980s. >What are some of those sites? And what do you >write, other than LNC? Now's the time to toot your own horns while the list is >slow! I helped with a Prisoner zine for a while and put out a one-shot "Storybook" of Prisoner stories, articles and art, by me and others, after thinking that the first such effort could have been better [well, I didn't help with the first one ;)] It's amazing what one could do with a regularly little Selectric-like typewriter back in 1985! But currently L&C's the only thing I write for. Perhaps other L&C authors have tried their hand at other stories. I think Doris wrote some Star Trek, for example. >And Farah, if you think it's too off-topic (since it's not strictly LNC) tell >us now, and if that's the case FoLCs, please email me privately. I think Farah won't mind as long as it's any topic that helps fans write L&C. Debby Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:04:45 -1000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: maeve Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Debby, "May your utterances be always with graciousness, seasoned as with salt." Thank you , Thank you , Thank you for your kind dissemination of that information. I, like many others ,have bookmarked those sites. It is the generosity of you FOLC's that keep myself and my daughter glued to our inbox to see what gem will be released next. On a side note. We are currently writing a fanfic called betrayal. It deals with the Superman accused of rape scenario. It is a little racy, as the antagonist that lex has employed is a woman who is excited by pain. She allows lex's thugs to rough her up and insert superman's sperm, which was stolen from star labs into her. In the hospital with crushed ribs, a broken arm, etc. she looks the antithesis of a willing partner. Lying in the hospital she is smiling to herself, as she has done this for the love of lex. It is very dark and goes into the psychology of abuse situations. I would appreciate anyone who would help me trim it down as well as correct some of the grammatical errors which I know exist in the manuscript. The storyline itself is overlong, I have five pages and I am not even finished writing it as of yet. This is a plea for help, information, and collaboration. Please email me and I will attach what I have written so far as a file. Criticism is always appreciated. This will be my first submission. We are a little nervous, and as I stated, can use all the help we can get. Anyone interested in helping me fine tune and finish this story, I would appreciate hearing from. Mahalo Nui Loa Emilie ( Mikki) Uyehara ( Internet Mom) Jocelyn Alohalani Mariko Uyehara ( Krypton Kid) Scherazade, Nanki Poo, and Zauberkatz ( The Krypton Kats) Just a bunch of local Folc's from hawaii with a hankering for this writing thing. -----Original Message----- From: Debby To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources >At 09:22 PM 9/16/1998 -0400, you wrote: >>Dearest Debby: > >ohhhh! :) > >>Thank-you so much for bringing those websites to our attention! I've >>bookmarked them all, and as soon as I can find the time, I'll be checking >>them. > >Me, too, probably :) > >>I know that there are a ton of die-hard writers out there, and that LNC isn't >>the only fanfic you write. > >Me, I've written a bit for The Prisoner, but that was back in the 1980s. > >>What are some of those sites? And what do you >>write, other than LNC? Now's the time to toot your own horns while the >list is >>slow! > >I helped with a Prisoner zine for a while and put out a one-shot >"Storybook" of >Prisoner stories, articles and art, by me and others, after thinking that the >first such effort could have been better [well, I didn't help with the first >one ;)] It's amazing what one could do with a regularly little Selectric-like >typewriter back in 1985! > >But currently L&C's the only thing I write for. Perhaps other L&C authors >have >tried their hand at other stories. I think Doris wrote some Star Trek, for >example. > >>And Farah, if you think it's too off-topic (since it's not strictly LNC) tell >>us now, and if that's the case FoLCs, please email me privately. > >I think Farah won't mind as long as it's any topic that helps fans write L&C. > >Debby >Debby@swcp.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:55:37 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources In-Reply-To: <01bde297$f17d4620$08c41acf@lavanet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:04 PM -1000 9/17/98, maeve wrote: > It is very dark and goes into the psychology of abuse >situations. I would appreciate anyone who would help me trim it down as >well as correct some of the grammatical errors which I know exist in the >manuscript. The storyline itself is overlong, I have five pages and I am >not even finished writing it as of yet. I'm glad to hear you are tackling this story. Should prove interesting. Good luck! Just to throw in my opinion, here, however, five pages is in no way "overlong" for this kind of story. I wouldn't worry about trying to "trim it down" yet -- wait until you are finished before deciding you need to tighten up the story. Now that's not to say that having a story editor look at sections as you finish them wouldn't be helpful. That's often a great way to keep motivated, and to clarify where you want to go. Story editors who read the story in process ("alpha readers" as one writer friend of mine calls them), can also be extremely helpful identifying plot holes before they get too big. I know how intimidating writing that first story is. You read novel length fanfics and you think "I could never do that!". But don't be afraid to take as much space as you need to tell the story properly. If you limit yourself to a set number of pages, you are shortchanging your story. What results is a cursory glance at a topic that sounds very dramatic and serious. You've taken on an ambitious project for your first attempt at fanfic, and that's great! There have been many others that have done the same thing, with outstanding results. Just don't get nervous as you see those page numbers adding up, and see the passage of time since you began writing. It's always tempting to try to finish up in a hurry, just to get the darn thing out the door, but more often than not, that leads to the plot feeling rushed as well -- usually the ending, it seems, since many writers write scenes in order. Take a look at your favorite fanfics and see how many pages they are. Many vingette fanfics seem to run about 5-10 pages. Fanfic that tell a full story, however, usually run much more -- 20, 30, 40 ... and higher. S5 episodes averaged 30-40 pages, if that gives you any indication. I'm not saying that your story should be this many or that many pages long. Just the opposite. If you can tell the full story in 10 pages, great. Adding in irrelevant detail bogs down the story. But neither should you gloss over serious issues because you are at 10 pages and that's all you think you should be writing. OK, pep talk over. >Just a bunch of local Folc's from hawaii with a hankering for this writing >thing. Good for you! Looking forward to seeing your story when it's ready to be posted. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:09:12 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-17 21:55:47 EDT, kbrown@WEBMART.NET writes: << Just to throw in my opinion, here, however, five pages is in no way "overlong" for this kind of story. >> I agree. I think 5 pages is rather short but I'm known to like long stories... So keep writing. --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:26:30 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi, This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you get a long story? Also, I recall in a post that Debby suggested that adverbs ending in LY be avoided in writing, but I can't recall why. I'm trying to eliminate them now >from something I've written and I can't get rid of them all. What I substitute seems more cumbersome. Carol ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:06:42 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Linzy Hill Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <97a3d9f3.36024366@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Carol wrote: >This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers >do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you >get a long story? I've only been editing for a little while, but most writers are pretty good! When you've been pouring over a story for a long time, it is easy to miss things, be they story holes, or bad grammar, simply because the author knows what they are trying to say. I'd recommend putting the story away for a few days and then reading it again - I'm always amazed how faults spring to light when I do this with my own writing. Obviously doing a spell check helps! And usually editing a new story is fun, no matter how long it is. I'm ambivalent about adverbs ending in -ly, as I like to use them myself. If you can't replace them appropriately, then don't! Linzy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:16:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sheila Harper Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:26 AM 9/18/98 EDT, you wrote: >Also, I recall in a post that Debby suggested that adverbs ending in LY be >avoided in writing, but I can't recall why. I'm trying to eliminate them now >>from something I've written and I can't get rid of them all. What I >substitute seems more cumbersome. The reason we avoid (NOT eliminate) adverbs in general is that they encourage writers to use weak verbs rather than strong, specific ones. And since the power of our sentences comes from three main sources--the subject, the verb, and the object--using weak verbs with adverbs drops the energy by a third. (Hmmm...sounds like an instant reply of the lecture I gave in basic comp last night :) For example, you could write, "She quickly crossed the room," which has a boring subject (she), a boring, nondescript verb (crossed), and a boring object (room). You can't do much about the subject, since it would be stupid to use "Lois" in every sentence, but there's a lot that can be done with the verb or object, depending on the emotion you want to convey (and, of course, where the scene takes place): She stormed across the newsroom. She raced across the lobby. She scampered through the dining room. She hurtled down the stairs. She bustled past Clark's desk. She fled to the bathroom. And I've barely scratched the possibilities in a simple 5 or 6 word sentence, avoiding not only adverbs but also most adjectives. There is tremendous power in specificity (and it does wonders for action scenes, which may be why I enjoy writing the Superman stuff :) You can't get rid of all adverbs that way--and you shouldn't even try--but avoiding them in favor of stronger verbs and adjectives will result in stronger, more emotional writing, while cutting away the deadwood, the lifeless words that clutter up, slow down, or bury your story. Sheila sharper@cncc.cc.co.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:25:19 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-18 07:27:40 EDT, Ccmalo@AOL.COM writes: << This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you get a long story? >> I love long stories . It does drive me nuts if spell check hasn't been used first--especially if the story is posted to the list without at least a spell check! For someone new, it is helpful to remember to always save the story in ASCII text (so don't do any fancy formatting or have "curly" quotes because all that will be lost) and to break it into e-mail sections rather than to send an attached file. Please also put the section part labels (1/3, 2/3...) in the beginning of the subject of the e-mail. I find that with long titles if those are at the end, they aren't visible on my mail list so I often open them out of order. --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:40:58 -0400 Reply-To: nightsky@erols.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Genevieve Subject: Subject lines for fanfic AND Cross-fandoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurie wrote (About posting fanfic): > Please also put the section part labels (1/3, 2/3...) in the > beginning of the subject of the e-mail. I find that with long titles if those > are at the end, they aren't visible on my mail list so I often open them out > of order. > > --Laurie Laurie, you're obviously not as far behind as I am in reading fanfic. I have a huge folder of fanfic just waiting for me to find time to read it, and I keep it sorted by Subject, which keeps all the stories together. If people did build their subject lines that way (01/12 NEW FANFIC TITLE), I'd have ten part ones at the top of the list, then ten part twos and so on. It would be impossible to sort by subject and get all the story, in order, together. And that is very important to people who want to download the story into one text file. It is nice, though, when authors remember to use the zero as a place holder for stories that are longer than 10 parts. That way, you get this: 01/11 02/11 03/11 | 10/11 Instead of 1/11 10/11 11/11 2/11 ========== Someone asked about writing in other fandoms. I'm currently co-writing a Highlander fanfiction with my sister. She came over to visit for the day, and while the kids were playing we started talking about *her* favorite show, and now I'm deep into researching 8th century Ireland in order to write the Methos flashbacks. It'll be much more her story than mine -- Janeen [my sister] does have a reputation to protect in Highlander fandom, which I do not, and she is re-writing me something terrible! She's much better than I am at imagery, but she keeps cluttering up my scenes with (IMO) unnecessary details. It's a good thing her phone was busy last night when I got the latest re-write of my scenes. I've calmed down quite a bit since then. Anyway, this is my first foray out of Lois and Clark fandom, although I have do have an idea for a Remington Steele fanfic I'd like to write someday. But I've still got ideas for three or four Lois and Clark stories I want to do first. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genevieve (NightSky@erols.com) ; And for any Tracy Scoggins fans out there -- my sister is currently posting a novel-length fanfic about Cassandra, the character Scoggins played on Highlander. It's really quite good; you can find a copy on my website -- there is a link to it way down at the bottom of my "Fanfic" page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:15:17 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Layney D." Subject: How does Supes fly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was talking to a friend of mine (he is writing a LnC fic), and he asked the question: how does Superman fly? Well, I, not being of the scientific sort, had no answers. But I offered the next best thing... I told him that I would ask the list. If anyone has any theories on how Supes can fly, I would appreciate it. Layney indiblue@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gary Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 01:15 PM 09/18/1998 -0400, you wrote: >I was talking to a friend of mine (he is writing a LnC fic), and he asked the >question: how does Superman fly? > >Well, I, not being of the scientific sort, had no answers. But I offered the >next best thing... I told him that I would ask the list. If anyone has any >theories on how Supes can fly, I would appreciate it. > >Layney >indiblue@aol.com > He doesn't fly, he floats. In order to fly you need two things: lift and thrust, since he has neither, we must conclude that he floats. Clark is a solar battery, to put it in simple terms; (that is why he is so warm and cuddly ;) By increasing his thermal output he warms the air around him and warms air rises so he moves by this method just as we balance on a two-wheel bicycle; (you don't think about shifting your weight- you just do it.) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu | | My personal FoLC/MATH website | | "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:07:45 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/18/98 12:25:48 PM Central Daylight Time, IndiBlue@AOL.COM writes: << I was talking to a friend of mine (he is writing a LnC fic), and he asked the question: how does Superman fly? >> Oh boy, time to bore you with some Superman history (I sort of love that ;) In the beginning (it's almost biblical) Superman didn't fly. He *leaped* about an eight of a mile per hop when he debuted in 1938. By the early 40s the Fleischer brothers were given the task of animating Superman so that the cartoons could accompany Paramount movies. The problem they had though, is they felt there was no way Superman looked cool 'leaping' to the rescue. They did pencil tests (rough animated sketches) of the leaping, but no matter how they tried to do it, it looked stupid. So, they asked permission to make Superman fly. They got permission. For a long time it was just assumed that Superman took a "super" leap and that launched him for quite a distance. He was "flying" in the sense that a canon ball leaving a canon flies. He was a projectile, a ... speeding bullet ;) In a sense he was still leaping to the rescue, but he stayed in the air longer. The problem with that though, is that just like a bullet, Superman couldn't increase or decrease his speed in the air and certainly couldn't change directions. I'll leave it to one of the "silver age" Superman fans to explain (if there was any) how Superman flew in that era. When John Byrne revamped the Superman myth in 1986 (this is the version the Lois and Clark series is based on) he had Superman basically defying gravity. This was done earlier than the revamp with the Chris Reeve Superman movies. You'll notice he didn't "leap" into the air for a takeoff, he just 'lifted off' easily into the air with no effort. So there must be something somewhere in the silver age comics that has this aspect unless the movies took it upon themselves to redefine how he flies (which isn't impossible ;) I'd go with the Byrne explanation of how Superman flies since it's his version of the myth that the series was based on and it is still that version of Superman currently in the comics (a variation here or there ;) His aura is seen as extending to objects he touches when he becomes weightless the objects in turn become weightless. Clark didn't power lift the shuttle from the launch pad, he became weightless while touching it and so he and the shuttle easily lifted into the air. He has more trouble with moving objects (objects under their own power). Such objects do seem to require a power/strength maneuver. He probably learned from stopping the bus abruptly in the pilot that that wasn't necessarily the best way to go since people were thrown forward and onto the floor with that type of stop, so later he seemed to slow large objects (subway train, tour tram, ferriswheel gear) with friction. The flying, the speed, direction changes, all of it, seem to be mentally controlled by Clark, or as his father said "you just will it to happen". If you want a scientific explanation, there probably isn't a good one other than it's natural for Clark to have these abilities (along with heat vision, x-ray vision, etc.), they're part of him. He probably no more thinks of flying when he's flying than we think of walking when we're walking (I can't be completely sure though, since I've never seen Superman fly and chew gum at the same time ;) Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:18:28 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Erin Klingler Subject: Re: I Only Have Oz For You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDE30F.351316E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDE30F.351316E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all! I just wanted to publicly tell the many terrific authors who write the = round robin fanfics that I soooo much enjoy reading what they write! = I'm partway through "I Only Have Oz For You", and have to say how = impressed I am at your guys' writing abilities! =20 I've had a couple of ppl encourage me to join in on these round robins, = but I am *definitely* not an off-the-cuff writer. I edit my own = *emails* to death! So I know I would be taking waaaay too long to = write my section, and you'd all hate me. =20 Anyway, I just felt compelled to write and thank all the writers who = participate in these terrific round robins, and say how much I admire = you for being able to write in such a way, and for doing such a great = job at it! =20 Thanks for the stories, guys, and keep them coming!! Erin :) aka ELK on IRC erink@ida.net =20 ******************** "The truth is no one knows how long they've got. Anyway, it's not the = years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen." ***=20 "You bet your sweet chumpy I am." ******************** ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDE30F.351316E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all!
 
I just wanted to publicly tell the many terrific authors who write = the=20 round robin fanfics that I soooo much enjoy reading what they = write!  I'm=20 partway through "I Only Have Oz For You", and have to say how=20 impressed I am at your guys' writing abilities! 
 
I've had a couple of ppl encourage me to join in on these round = robins, but=20 I am *definitely* not an off-the-cuff writer.  I edit my own = *emails* to=20 death! <bg>  So I know I would be taking waaaay too long to = write my=20 section, and you'd all hate me. <g> 
 
Anyway, I just felt compelled to write and thank all the writers = who=20 participate in these terrific round robins, and say how much I admire = you for=20 being able to write in such a way, and for doing such a great job at = it! =20
 
Thanks for the stories, guys, and keep them coming!!
 
Erin :)
aka ELK on IRC
erink@ida.net
 
************= ********
"The=20 truth is no one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the = years=20 that count, it's the moments...right now, as they=20 happen."
         &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 ***
"You bet your sweet chumpy I=20 am."
********************
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01BDE30F.351316E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:18:38 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <97a3d9f3.36024366@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:26 AM 9/18/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers >do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you >get a long story? They fail to indicate paragraphs. They don't run their work through a speller first. They don't know when to use commas and have trouble with punctuation. Sometimes a character asks a question but a question mark is missing. However, writers can learn all these things easily and usually apply them :) Another thing that makes me cringe is the use of ** or some other visual cue to let the reader know that someone is thinking. I only use * when I can't use italics. If I can't write a sentence such that the reader knows the character is thinking, then I better rewrite it. Quotes can be used, but I prefer to save them for spoken words. Yikes, she thought, I better stop complaining... then again, readers would never see **Yikes, I better stop complaining...** in a hard-copy book, would they? Nope. I *can* see the use of a visual cue for telepathic speach. >Also, I recall in a post that Debby suggested that adverbs ending in LY be >avoided in writing, but I can't recall why. I'm trying to eliminate them now >>from something I've written and I can't get rid of them all. What I >substitute seems more cumbersome. Sometimes, she said contritely, I even use them ;) (or I could say, "Sometimes, she admitted, I even use them.") If you like them, leave them in! Hey, you're not getting paid for your work--have fun! :) Debby Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:30:01 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources In-Reply-To: <01bde297$f17d4620$08c41acf@lavanet> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:04 PM 9/17/1998 -1000, Emilie ( Mikki), Uyehara ( Internet Mom), Jocelyn Alohalani Mariko Uyehara ( Krypton Kid), Scherazade, Nanki Poo, and Zauberkatz (The Krypton Kats) [one, several or all of them] wrote: >Dear Debby, > >"May your utterances be always with graciousness, seasoned as with salt." *and* green chile since I'm in New Mexico, as well as Garlic since I like it even more :) [snip] > >[re your story...] The storyline itself is overlong, I have five pages and I am >not even finished writing it as of yet. I agree with Kathy, 5 pages is probably not overlong for a story, considering how long some of our stories are ;) If by story line you mean outline, that's okay, too, because you have a guide. *I* need to outline more, I'd probably get more done faster. I can't help you in proofing at this time because I've served myself too full a plate at the moment. I hope you've had lots of volunteers :) >Just a bunch of local Folc's from hawaii with a hankering for this writing >thing. Is expect a good number of "L&C visit the beach" stories from you all :) Debby Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:22:53 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <360188F00000011C@cncc.cncc.cc.co.us> (added by cncc.cncc.cc.co.us) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:16 AM 9/18/1998 -0500, Sheila wrote: [snip some marvelous writing and advice!] >...You can't get rid of >all adverbs that way--and you shouldn't even try--but avoiding them in favor >of stronger verbs and adjectives will result in stronger, more emotional >writing, while cutting away the deadwood, the lifeless words that clutter >up, slow down, or bury your story. Yeah! What she said :) Debby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:19:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: Subject lines for fanfic AND Cross-fandoms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:40 AM 9/18/1998 -0400, Genevieve wrote: >Laurie wrote (About posting fanfic): > >> Please also put the section part labels (1/3, 2/3...) in the >> beginning of the subject of the e-mail. I find that with long titles if those >> are at the end, they aren't visible on my mail list so I often open them out >> of order. >> >> --Laurie (I have this problem, too) Genevieve wrote >Laurie, you're obviously not as far behind as I am in reading fanfic. I >have a huge folder of fanfic just waiting for me to find time to read >it, and I keep it sorted by Subject, which keeps all the stories >together. If people did build their subject lines that way (01/12 NEW >FANFIC TITLE), I'd have ten part ones at the top of the list, then ten >part twos and so on. It would be impossible to sort by subject and get >all the story, in order, together. And that is very important to people >who want to download the story into one text file. Clearly the solution is to have as a one- or two-word title,, acronym or nickname for a long piece, a title (or acronym or nn) that will stand out, a title that no one will ever forget for the rest of their lives, one that authors would die for when begging and offering a great deal of money does them no good. Works for me ;) Debby Debby@swcp.com who better get back to work... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:32:58 +1000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? In-Reply-To: <7e8f1d25.3602af81@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:07 PM 18/09/98 EDT, Zoomway wrote: >he's flying than we think of walking when we're walking (I can't be completely >sure though, since I've never seen Superman fly and chew gum at the same time >;) > >Zoomway@aol.com What about seeing Dean fly and chew gum at the same time? -- Jenny Stosser -*- jenerate@ozramp.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM & AOL -*- My ICQ# is 11477318 Photos of David (6) and Megan (3) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:08:21 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/18/98 4:27:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Ccmalo@AOL.COM writes: > > This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers > do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when > you > get a long story? > Okay... I'm gonna answer here... so please don't get mad at me ;) You asked for it... My pet-peeve when I edit is verb tense. Most stories should be written in standard prose... that's PAST TENSE. He went to the store. He thought about something. What really rankles me is when authors either stay in the present tense (He goes to the store. He thinks about it.) or bounce around (He went to the store and buys some groceries.). I realize that my grammar is less than perfect (as my editor will confirm... Hi Phil :) but verb tense is what really gets under my skin. It detracts from the story, and makes me positively nuts. That's my $.02 worth :) Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:06:02 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-18 15:08:45 EDT, Zoomway@AOL.COM writes: << He has more trouble with moving objects (objects under their own power). Such objects do seem to require a power/strength maneuver. >> Ah, this is basic physics and has to do with inertia... You know, an object at rest tends to stay at rest and an object in motion tends to stay in motion (well, execpt for friction and a Superman pushing hard on it). --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:33:54 -0400 Reply-To: x-lander@geocities.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Mark Safransky Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Layney D. wrote: > I was talking to a friend of mine (he is writing a LnC fic), and he asked the > question: how does Superman fly? > > Well, I, not being of the scientific sort, had no answers. But I offered the > next best thing... I told him that I would ask the list. If anyone has any > theories on how Supes can fly, I would appreciate it. > > Layney > indiblue@aol.com Say his powers are all psychic-powered, then it might be telekinesis. X-Lander ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <97a3d9f3.36024366@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:26 AM -0400 9/18/98, C.C. Malo wrote: >Hi, > >This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers >do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you >get a long story? Long stories are fine with me. The only time they make me cringe is if they are badly written long stories. ;) Spell checking should go without saying. I think it's rude, actually, to make someone else do your spell checking for you, unless, say, you have cleared it with them beforehand since you don't have one, etc. Now, that said, the occasional misspelled word because you added a paragraph after you spell checked and forgot to recheck is no big deal to me. Using the wrong homonym is frustrating only if the person does it constantly. We all typo "their" for "there" occasionally, or "it's" for "its". That doesn't bother me. What does bother me is when the person obviously has no clue what the proper usages are and interchanges constantly. (I once had a college educated man reporting to me who claimed to have never learned the difference between "their", "there" and "they're". When I explained how you use each one, he was shocked -- he had no idea there were three different words. Then I was shocked. ;)) Comma problems take a long time to correct, but again, are only especially frustrating for me if you explain the rules to the writer, but they keep making the same mistakes. A willingness to *learn* is important. (And in all fairness, I admit that I had major comma problems in my early stories. Sheila Harper went above and beyond the call of duty correcting them and teaching me the rules. However, to my credit, once she taught me, I committed them to memory and vowed never to make anyone go through so much work again.) Paragraph delination is my pet peeve -- for goodness sake, start a new paragraph when you change speakers, and either indent or (my preference) double space to show a new paragraph. Send me a file that is all one paragraph and watch my blood pressure rise. As for Debby's cringing over the use of *'s to show thoughts, I admit that I did that in my first story, but I've since changed over to either using single quotes, or just making it clear from the context that these are thoughts. I think this looks much cleaner. However, it doesn't particularly make me cringe if someone else does it. BTW, Sheila's instruction on adverbs was most interesting. Thanks, Sheila. I always learn so much from you. :) Kathy (a willing student :)) ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:16:45 MDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: DEBRA GRAY Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 7:26 AM -0400 9/18/98, C.C. Malo wrote: >Hi, > >This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that writers do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe when you get a long story?> I have to agree with Kathy on all of that - though I'm not a fanfic editor, I have been an English teacher, and it's not just fanfic writers who do those things. Another thing that really gets me steamed is when a writer does not make the subject and the pronoun agree. An example: "A writer (singular) must make their (plural) language as clear as possible." I know, I know - this is very common these days because we all want to eliminate gender bias, and "his or her language" is a very cumbersome construction. I really don't have a solution to that dilemma, but every time I see this usage I cringe like a Ferengi losing a lucrative deal! Sorry to be so blunt, FoLCs. Hope I didn't just wreck your day. Debra G. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:37:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Maggie Subject: Significant Detail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sheila Harper wrote: "There is tremendous power in specificity..." As I was reading this, I remembered my 10th grade English teacher, Mr. Moses. He had a personal obsession with Significant Detail. Whenever he assigned our Essays, he would always stress the importance of including Significant Details. Insignificant details are clutter. Significant details, however, can make even the simplest of stories shine. I am not a fanfic writer, but as an avid fanfic reader I can tell you what I love in a story. I love to be in the scene with the characters. I love to picture where they are (their living room, the Daily Planet, a dark alley in the middle of the night....). I imagine what the scene would look like and I go there with the writer and the characters and live we all get to live that moment together. Notice as I wrote the previous paragraph I said " a dark alley in the middle of the night". Without even noticing it, I followed Mr. Moses credo for significant detail! These types of details always help you further your story, shape your characters, or just put the reader in the right place at the right time. The great thing about Mr. Moses was that he made it so simple to learn and put in practice. He gave us a mantra composed of two words, significant details, and made us stick to it. Details just for details sake don't do anything for anyone. They don't help the writer develop the story and they don't help the reader understand it. He made us ask ourselves (over and over again!) "Is this really relevant to what I am trying to say? How does this serve my story/essay/whatever?" {here I was going to put this sentence: This is a writing tool I know I use everyday and it is so ingrained in my subconcious, I know I do not even notice it. As I reviewed, I realized it really isn't significant, doesn't further my point and was going to hit delete. This is a perfect example of what I am talking about! Just because a sentence sounds good, doesn't mean you really need it. See?} Maggie maggie13@bellsouth.net (aka supermag1 on IRC) Lois (rolls her head and smiles) "What am I going to do with you?" Clark (smugly) "You're going to love me for the rest of my life." Pam Jernigan "Crazy For You" Hmmm, "You bet your sweet chumpy I am" ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:57:51 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: demona Subject: Fanfic Archive In-Reply-To: <199809190232.WAA05115@mail.mia.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FoLCs, On behalf of the Fanfiction Archive, I want to thank all of you so very much for all of the wonderful letters of encouragement, the donations and the support you've all offered the archive. We couldn't and wouldn't be here without the FoLCs, and your generosity as always, is both humbling and heartwarming. I've been asked by "A Creative Touch" web design (Beth's company) who is housing the archive for us, to please mention to you all that we've almost hit our goal to cover the costs of the two young women who paid for our housing the past two years! That's amazing and we're so touched by the amount of people who responded, those who wrote us letters and those who sent us a couple of dollars in the mail. You've all helped tremendously. ACTWD also wanted me to mention that when you are sending your letters, and/or your donations, if you could please try and make those out to Moreen Romans and not ACTWD. The company does not wish to profit in any way off of this, and since Moreen is actually taking care of the monies received, she's better able to look after that if things don't have to go through a corporate account first. Since ACT wasn't the only person(s) sponsoring the archive, it's easier that way for everyone. :) Once again, thank you all so very much. All our best... ~~Demi~~ On Behalf Of The Lois & Clark Fanfiction Archive __________________________________________ Demi / Demona Archive Coordinator Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive http://lcfanfic.actwd.com __________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:07:31 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lori McElhaney Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/18/98 9:00:23 PM Central Daylight Time, kbrown@WEBMART.NET writes: << Using the wrong homonym is frustrating only if the person does it constantly. We all typo "their" for "there" occasionally, or "it's" for "its". That doesn't bother me. >> Add loose and lose to that list. I'm always amazed at the amount of fanfics I read that have that mistake. I guess it's because spellcheck won't find those type of mistakes. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:39:24 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:57 PM 9/18/1998 -0500, Kathy B wrote: >[snip] >(I once had a college educated man reporting to me who claimed >to have never learned the difference between "their", "there" and >"they're". When I explained how you use each one, he was shocked -- he had >no idea there were three different words. Then I was shocked. ;)) I type up a lot of things for business people and college students, and it's clear that they weren't English majors... ;) Another "there" word I hear a lot on tapes is "there're", a contraction of "there are", as in "There're half a dozen UFOs hovering over the condo those two nutty reporters live in!" >Comma problems take a long time to correct, but again, are only especially >frustrating for me if you explain the rules to the writer, but they keep >making the same mistakes. A willingness to *learn* is important. (And in >all fairness, I admit that I had major comma problems in my early stories. >Sheila Harper went above and beyond the call of duty correcting them and >teaching me the rules. When I run into someone with this problem, I'll correct the first few, usually with a [,] in the right place, using the [] to make them stand out, but then, as the hours pass correcting this problem, I'll say "Okay, now you see what I'm doing-- *you* correct them :)" I do this for other constant punctuation problems, too, because correcting each one can take a lot of time if the story is long... >Paragraph delination is my pet peeve -- for goodness sake, start a new >paragraph when you change speakers, and either indent or (my preference) >double space to show a new paragraph. Send me a file that is all one >paragraph and watch my blood pressure rise. Whenever I get an email that is one gigantic paragraph (a problem on a UFO list I'm on, where people become very passionate about wierd things), I *may* skim it if I feel I have time or the first sentence or two are interesting, but odds are good I'll just trash it. If the writer can't take the time to be sure he/she will be understood, then maybe what they're saying is worth trying to understand. Presentation, while it isn't *everything*, is very important. Also, I think some email programs will jam things together. I had a problem with Eudora Pro 4.0: it wouldn't hold on to tabs in my text. That cleared up when I downloaded the "final" 4.0.2 from Eudora's site and did a little tweeking. Eudora now works a great deal like a word processing program: it has a spell checker and drag and drop capabilities. So we may get everything right, only to find our program will thwart us without us realizing it. >As for Debby's cringing over the use of *'s to show thoughts, I admit that >I did that in my first story, but I've since changed over to either using >single quotes, or just making it clear from the context that these are >thoughts. I think this looks much cleaner. However, it doesn't >particularly make me cringe if someone else does it. I should say I'll cringe depending on how the story is written :) If I don't notice the use of * for thoughts because they flow right in--if I don't have to stop and think, "Oh, that character is thinking", then I won't cringe :) If I'm shaken out of the play the story is setting up in my mind, that can lead to a cringe ;) Debby Debby@swcp.com not cringing at the moment ;) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:54:25 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Life is a pure flame, and we live by an invisible sun within us." Subject: Re: editing & adverbs << (I once had a college educated man reporting to me who claimed to have never learned the difference between "their", "there" and "they're". When I explained how you use each one, he was shocked -- he had no idea there were three different words. Then I was shocked. ;)) >> < I type up a lot of things for business people and college students, and it's clear that they weren't English majors... ;) > This doesn't suprise me a bit. I work as a student writing assistant in my school's writing center and see a lot of what Kathy and Debby mentioned. My school is known for its English department, and many of the students who come in with papers to be edited or read over are English majors; their spelling seems to be among the worst. (Spoken, of course, by a molecular biology major, one of the two science majors working in the writing center. Okay, so I'm used to being the exception to the rule. ;) My own personal pet peeve is a comma splice- when someone creates run-on sentences by using a comma as his/her only punctuation between two separate thoughts. (Such as: I went to the store, I bought bread there.) So many people, students, faculty, & fanfic writers, do this and don't even recognize it as grammatically incorrect. -Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu Attalanta on IRC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:26:45 +1000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jenny Stosser Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:57 PM 18/09/98 -0500, Kathy Brown wrote: >Comma problems take a long time to correct, but again, are only especially >frustrating for me if you explain the rules to the writer, but they keep >making the same mistakes. A willingness to *learn* is important. (And in >all fairness, I admit that I had major comma problems in my early stories. >Sheila Harper went above and beyond the call of duty correcting them and >teaching me the rules. However, to my credit, once she taught me, I >committed them to memory and vowed never to make anyone go through so much >work again.) I'm currently re-reading an old favourite of mine (book, not fanfic), Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear. One of the things I find really irks me about her writing style is her use of commas. I know that it's supposed to indicate the way her characters think and speak (or gesticulate/signal in the case of most of them) but descriptive sentences beginning with "But, ..." really bug me. Bad enough to continually break the "don't start sentences with 'but' or 'and' - she then makes it worse by following the 'But' with a comma! I don't know for sure that it's bad grammar, but I do know that it bugs me! Anyone else have a favourite book where the author's style bugs you like this? -- Jenny Stosser -*- jenerate@ozramp.net.au -*-This message is umop ap!sdn (Jenerator or Some1Else on IRC) -*- JenerEight on AIM & AOL -*- My ICQ# is 11477318 Photos of David (6) and Megan (3) on the Stosser Family HomePage: http://geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/4583 Please sign our guestbook! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:45:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sheila Harper Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >My own personal pet peeve is a comma splice- when someone creates run-on >sentences by using a comma as his/her only punctuation between two separate >thoughts. (Such as: I went to the store, I bought bread there.) So many people, >students, faculty, & fanfic writers, do this and don't even recognize it as >grammatically incorrect. LOL Christy! That's the rule/error my basic comp students have the most trouble with. They can identify and correct fragments. They csn do the same for a zero-punctuation run-on sentence (I went to the store I bought a loaf of bread). But comma splices stump them every time because they don't recognize them as incorrect. Sort of like the kids who don't recognize that "would've" really means "would have," not "would of," or the ones whose families say "he don't," so it's almost impossible to teach them subject-verb agreement because incorrect usage doesn't sound wrong to them. In those cases, it takes a tremendous willingness to change *and* learn the correct rules, which unfortunately, most people don't have. Sheila sharper@cncc.cc.co.us ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:17:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Maggie Subject: On Writing Well... (Long Post) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone :) As I have been reading everyone's posts the past couple of days, I started thinking about my favorite book about writing called "On Writing Well" by William Zinsser. The subtitle is "An Informal Guide to Writing Nonfiction". Even though it refers to Nonfiction, I think many of you might enjoy it as much as I have. It's one of those books that I read, then re-read, and *then* highlighted my favorite parts. I feel like rambling about writing today.....Hmm, this is a writing list so what the heck? I get to revisit my friend Mr. Zinsser, and you get the Maggie version of Cliff's notes! However, I really believe anyone who likes writing would really enjoy the whole, entire, complete book. Before I proceed to my favorite parts from "On Writing Well" I would also like to ask what books about the writing process you recommend. I would love to hear what suggestions you all have...... Here goes. Words of Writing Wisdom from William Zinsser ~Simplicity~ Clear thinking becomes clear writing; one can't exist without the other. ~Clutter~ The game is won or lost on hundreds of small details....Clutter is the laborious phrase that has pushed out the short word that means the same thing...Clutter is the ponderous euphemism that turns a slum into a depressed socioeconomic area, a salesman into a marketing representative, garbage collectors into waste-disposal personnel and the town dump into the volume reduction unit.....Physicians are physicians, friends are friends. The rest is clutter. ~The Audience~ "Who am I writing for?" It's a fundamental question, and it has a fundemantal answer: You are writing for yourself......You are primarily writing to please yourself, and if you go about it with confidence you will also entertain the readers who are worth writing for..... You are who you are, he is who he is, and either you will get along or you won't......Relax and say what you want to say. ~Words~ The English language is rich in strong and supple words. Take the time to root around a find the ones you want. Writing is learned by imitation......cultivate the best models....Also get in the habit of using dictionaries....If you have any doubt about what word means, look it up.....And don't scorn that bulging grab bag "Roget's Thesaurus".....It saves you the time of rummaging in your own memory-that network of overloaded grooves-to find the word that's right on the tip of your tongue, where it doesn't do you any good. Also bear in mind, when you are choosing words and stringing them together, how they sound. This may seem absurd: readers read with their eyes. But actually they hear what they are reading-in their inner ear-far more than you realize.....Remember, then, that words are the only tools you will be given. Learn to use them with originality and care. Value them for their strength and their diversity. And also remember somebody out there is listening. ~Unity~ You learn to write by writing. It's a truism, but what makes it a truism it that it's true.....All writing is ultimately a question of solving a problem. It may be a problem of where to obtain the facts, or how to organize the material. It may be a problem of approach or attitude, tone or style. Whatever it is, it has to be confronted and solved. Sometimes you will despair of finding the right solution-or any solution. You will think, "If I live to be ninety I'll never get out of the mess I'm in." I've often that that myself. But when I finally do solve the problem it's because I have written millions of words. Like a surgeon removing his five hundredth appendix, I've been there before and have a surer instinct than the beginner about how to fix what has gone wrong. Unity is the anchor of good writing.....One choice is unity of pronoun.....Unity of tense is another choice.....Another choice is unity of mood.... Now it's possible that you'll make these prior decisions [regarding unity and what you will be writing about] and then discover the were not the right ones. The material seems to be leading you in an unexpected direction, where you are more comfortable writing in a different tone. That's not abnormal-the very act of writing often generates some cluster of thoughts or memories that you didn't anticipate. Don't fight such a current if it feels right. Trust your material if it's taking you into terrain that you didn't intend to enter but where the vibarations are good. Adjust your style and your mood accordingly and proceed to whatever destination you reach. Don't ever become a prisoner of a preconceived plan. Writing is no respecter of blueprints-it's too subjective a process, too full of surprises. ~Trust Your Material~ Organizing is the most unsung and untaught of the writing skills, but it's just as important as knowing how to write a clear and pleasing sentence. All your clear and pleasing sentences will add up to chaos if you don't keep remembering that writing is linear and sequential, that logic is the glue that holds it together, that tension must be maintained between every sentence and every paragraph, and that narrative-good old fashioned storytelling-is what should pull the reader along without his ever noticing the tug. The only thing the reader should notice, subconsciously, is that you have made a sensible plan for the trip and know where you're going. Every step should seem inevitable. Mr. Zinsser also has some very interesting notions about periods and exclamation points. Coming soon, to a mailbox near you: The Period by William Zinsser. Oh, joy, oh rapture, oh, for the love of Dean.....I think I'll go watch Lois and Clark catch some bad guys and quibble about grammar now. Class dissmissed! Maggie maggie13@bellsouth.net (aka supermag1 on IRC) Lois (rolls her head and smiles) "What am I going to do with you?" Clark (smugly) "You're going to love me for the rest of my life." Pam Jernigan "Crazy For You" Hmmm, "You bet your sweet chumpy I am" ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:53:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Christy Kubit Subject: Re: editing & adverbs & On Writing Well... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenny Stosser wrote: << I'm currently re-reading an old favourite of mine (book, not fanfic), Jean Auel's Clan of the Cave Bear. One of the things I find really irks me about her writing style is her use of commas. I know that it's supposed to indicate the way her characters think and speak (or gesticulate/signal in the case of most of them) but descriptive sentences beginning with "But, ..." really bug me. Bad enough to continually break the "don't start sentences with 'but' or 'and' - she then makes it worse by following the 'But' with a comma! I don't know for sure that it's bad grammar, but I do know that it bugs me!>> Starting sentences with 'but' and 'and' is an interesting topic of conversation. Way back in elementary school I was taught that it was absolutely inappropriate in all cases, but I've often noticed fiction writers do it. IMO, it isn't appropriate in non-fiction writing and academic papers but I don't have a problem with it in fiction writing. I even do it myself if it fits the situation and sound I'm looking for. << Anyone else have a favourite book where the author's style bugs you like this? >> One of my favorite authors is Madeleine L'Engle and I've noticed that in her earlier works she seems to overuse commas, which bothers me. (I guess I just have problems with the way a lot of people use commas. ;) However, in an introduction L'Engle wrote to a collection of her writings (Glimpses of Grace: Daily Thoughts and Reflections), L'Engle wrote, and note how she starts her sentence (paragraph, too, actually): "But language changes, or it does, and language has changed radically since my first novel was published in 1945. Punctuation has changed. We use far less..." I don't know if this is applicable to Auel's style (especially since Clan of the Cave Bear was written much more recently, in 1980 I think, but I would guess this is true in many cases. Separately, Maggie wrote: << Before I proceed to my favorite parts from "On Writing Well" I would also like to ask what books about the writing process you recommend. I would love to hear what suggestions you all have...... >> My favorite is Keys for Writers by Ann Raimes. I had to buy this book for my freshman intro English course and it's come in as handy writing for my intro to fiction class as my physical chemistry class. << Also bear in mind, when you are choosing words and stringing them together, how they sound. This may seem absurd: readers read with their eyes. But actually they hear what they are reading-in their inner ear-far more than you realize.....Remember, then, that words are the only tools you will be given. Learn to use them with originality and care. Value them for their strength and their diversity. And also remember somebody out there is listening. >> This is another thing that bothers me- when writers obviously don't read their writing out loud, or even try to "hear" the words in their mind. (My writing can be convoluted & wordy as well, but at least it makes sense *to me* when I read it aloud. ;) Especially when writing dialogue, as when a character's dialogue is in perfect English. Most people don't talk in perfect English- they use contractions more often than not, and they also use words such as "gonna" & "wanna." And people often speak in fragments rather than sentences, or use incorrect English. I think the important thing is matching speech patterns with characters, not with grammar rules. -Christy kubitc@kenyon.edu Attalanta on IRC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:20:10 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/98 8:27:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jenerate@OZRAMP.NET.AU writes: > Bad enough to continually break the "don't start > sentences with 'but' or 'and' - she then makes it worse by following the > 'But' with a comma! I don't know for sure that it's bad grammar, but I do > know that it bugs me! And, but, and or are conjunctions... to be used in the middle of a sentence. They are designed to connect two related sentences or thoughts without creating a run-on sentence. He went to the store, and he went to the bakery. It is still best separated into two sentences, however (another conjunction) it is grammatically correct. I am notorious for using commas to separate the text where a breath would come, such as here, regardless of whether the comma is really necessary. I *know* that it is grammatically incorrect, but it is a hard habit to break. I am trying to do better. I am also notorious of confusing lose and loose... and I have no excuse. Let's just say that after more than 30 people e-mailed me following my first release of Full Circle (Yes, I did warn them that it was not edited...) I haven't made the same mistake since. Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:25:52 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Okay, I see that we have a lot of terrific editors, so I would like to test their knowledge: Is *gotten* a word? Is it the past-tense of got? I ask, because I was under the impression that got was an irregular verb, and it's past tense would not be the same word, but I don't know what the word would be. I never think to ask this in the presence of an English teacher, so I thought I would throw it out to the list. He got upset. He had gotten upset. He became upset. He got the blue sweater. He had gotten the blue sweater. He acquired the blue sweater. Hmmm... none of it feels right to me... it's no wonder I purely avoid the word. Well, what's the verdict? Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:00:03 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Gotten (was Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/98 3:26:27 PM Central Daylight Time, JCWimmer@AOL.COM writes: << s *gotten* a word? Is it the past-tense of got? I ask, because I was under the impression that got was an irregular verb, and it's past tense would not be the same word, but I don't know what the word would be. I never think to ask this in the presence of an English teacher, so I thought I would throw it out to the list. >> Yes, it's a word, however, it seems mainly a North American word. It may be why you find it in Lois and Clark dialog ;) Lois: "I've gotten to the point with this ... with us, that I have to know the truth, whatever it is." I think 'gotten' is a pp of "get", but I'm not an English major, so don't quote me ;) This leads to my dumb story that I've told before, but we know how I enjoy redundancy ;) There was a British man who had spent some time in the States and had become a bit enamored of the word "gotten". So when he was about to return home to London, he sent a telegram to his wife "Will arrive tomorrow, have gotten tickets for the play, meet me at the theatre." When he arrived at the theater, he saw his wife with several neighbors and asked what was going on. She replied "You said you got ten tickets for the play" baroom ching! ;) Has he gotten over it yet? I don't think he'll ever get over it. I like the word, but even in my current fanfic I seem to only have it once in a total of 21 pages, and that is in dialog. Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:36:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sheila Harper Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since I'm also an English teacher, you've hit my field of expertise. >Is *gotten* a word? Is it the past-tense of got? I ask, because I was under >the impression that got was an irregular verb, and it's past tense would not >be the same word, but I don't know what the word would be. The base form of the word is "get," which is the present tense form, and it *is* irregular. That is, the past tense form isn't "getted" but "got." "Gotten" is the past participle form, which is used to form the perfect tenses (has gotten, had gotten, or will have gotten). "Getting" is the present participle form, which is used in the continuous tense (was getting, is getting, will be getting). Sheila sharper@cncc.cc.co.us ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:49:01 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rachel Duncan Subject: De-lurk...for just a moment. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey...here speaks a long-time silent reader... I have two questions: I lost teh (hehehe) URL to Sandy's House o' fanfic. Wondering if any of you more organzied folcs had it. also, I was listening to some Season 5 wavs and realized that I missed more of the season than I thought. Is there any way I can get/buy tapes of Season 5? I feel so out of the loop now! Regarding grammar. I think I have learned more in these past few days than I did from my VERRRRY picky English teacher. Now whether or not I have the brains to apply it is another matter. Hey well, half of it's fanfic related. Thanks a lot, Rachel. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:12:55 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-19 17:41:01 EDT, Sheila wrote: << The base form of the word is "get," which is the present tense form, and it *is* irregular. That is, the past tense form isn't "getted" but "got." "Gotten" is the past participle form, which is used to form the perfect tenses (has gotten, had gotten, or will have gotten). "Getting" is the present participle form, which is used in the continuous tense (was getting, is getting, will be getting). >> Got it! Crystal, I hope you did too! Marie, hoping Crystal doesn't lose what we've set loose in her writing style. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:39:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sheila Harper Subject: Gotten (was editing & adverbs) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The past tense form isn't "getted" but "got." > "Gotten" is the past participle form A few additional notes: "Got" is also considered the past participle form, but that appears to be primarily in British rather than American English. However, we Americans also use "have got" and "has got" in the place of "have" when we're indicating possession *and* contracting the "have" or "has." For example, we say "I've got 5 L&C T-shirts" when we mean "I have 5 L&C T-shirts" or "He's got all of the L&C eps on tape" instead of "He has all of the L&C eps on tape." Using "got" in those cases prevents awkward or ambiguous constructions like "I've 5 L&C T-shirts" or, especially, "He's all of the L&C eps on tape." Sheila (who went back to check the dictionary and Fowler after sending the previous post :) sharper@cncc.cc.co.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:15:43 +1000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: trish Subject: Re: editing & adverbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there =) Sheila wrote: Sort of like the kids who don't recognize that > "would've" really means "would have," not "would of," or the ones whose > families say "he don't," so it's almost impossible to teach them > subject-verb agreement because incorrect usage doesn't sound wrong to them. I laughed out loud when I read that. A friend of mine at Uni. was incredulous when I explained to him that what he was writing didn't make sense because of that rule. He swore to me black and blue that "would've" meant "would of" and was a little red-faced when he asked our tutor who then explained the rule to him again . It is funny though, when I am reading an essay I am very picky on grammar and spelling. With fanfic I am quite a lot more forgiving. There isn't anything that hugely bugs me unless the story clearly has not been edited because it has repeat mistakes or lots of spelling mistakes that really distracts you from the story, other than that I think that the "**" for telepathy etc don't bother me at all as I find they are quirks of fanfic. Sure, they wouldn't be in books but we're not reading them. If people want to structure their fanfics exactly like books then fine but if they dont then also fine because it is writing for fun and love of the series which is of uppermost importance here (at least that's my opinion). Have a great day people :) Trish trish@hotkey.net.au FoLCTrish on IRC "The mind is like a parachute, it only works when open" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:30:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Gotten (was Re: editing & adverbs) In-Reply-To: <3438f434.36041350@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:25 PM -0400 9/19/98, Crystal Wimmer wrote: >He got upset. >He had gotten upset. >He became upset. > >He got the blue sweater. >He had gotten the blue sweater. >He acquired the blue sweater. > >Hmmm... none of it feels right to me... it's no wonder I purely avoid the >word. All of these sound correct to me. Not to say that you couldn't find more specific words to fit your context, but all of these are grammatically correct. Interesting that you should bring this up, however, because I recently had a email conversation with a writer from the UK on this very topic. In editing her story, I suggested a dialogue change (or maybe it was narrarive, can't remember) which included the word "gotten". She replied that she would not change it because she didn't consider "gotten" a word. She added something like "Maybe it's an American word, but I don't think anyone actually uses it." Well, since that conversation, I've been paying particular attention to my use of the word. And I use it a lot. So, yes, it is commonly used in American English. Not long after this, I was working on one of my own fanfics and noticed I had used the word "gotten". Remembering the conversation, I pulled out my dictionary, just to be sure I was using it properly. This is what my dictionary said: gotten ... past participle of GET. Obsolete in British, is current in American English in the sense of "obtained": We have gotten the necessary funds. Gotten is also used in the sense of "become": He has gotten fat. This is according to Webster's Dictionary, (c) 1992 So, Crystal, all of your above sentences are grammatically correct. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:07:11 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: TAN: Eudora Pro Question (was Re: editing & adverbs) In-Reply-To: <199809191258.GAA14705@kitsune.swcp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 6:39 AM -0600 9/19/98, Debby wrote: >Also, I think some email programs will jam things together. I had a problem >with >Eudora Pro 4.0: it wouldn't hold on to tabs in my text. That cleared up >when I downloaded >the "final" 4.0.2 from Eudora's site and did a little tweeking. Eudora now >works a great >deal like a word processing program: it has a spell checker and drag and >drop capabilities. This is good to know ... I currently use Eudora Light, and like it a lot. The fact that's it's free makes it even better. I've considered spending the money to get Eudora Pro (is it like $40?) but don't know what extra features I'd be getting for that money. Is it worth it? I spend a lot of time with my email program but I don't feel the need to pay for features I won't use. So, anyone out there with experience with this program ... is it worth it? Debby mentioned spell checking, which would be very helpful (Eudora Light doesn't have it.) What is drag and drop? Moving text around with the mouse instead of cutting and pasting? What about supporting links? Like when someone puts a URL in their email message and you can click on it and automatically go to the site in Netscape? I know that Netscape mail can do this, but do other programs communicate with Netscape? Or is this something you can only do by using the browser emailer? Any other features I might find useful? Thanks for any help you can provide. :) Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:35:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: De-lurk...for just a moment. In-Reply-To: <360450FD.400F45E5@wfu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:49 PM -0400 9/19/98, Rachel Duncan wrote: >also, I was listening to some Season 5 wavs and realized that I missed >more of the season than I thought. Is there any way I can >get/buy tapes of Season 5? I feel so out of the loop now! You lost me here, Rachel. There are only 4 seasons of L&C. L&C never made a 5th season. The only 5th seasons out there are fanfic ones, written by various FoLCs groups. (Heh heh, folk groups ... ah, never mind. ) So, you haven't missed any tapes of a 5th season. Could you have meant the 4th season of L&C? Or something else? Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:51:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rachel Duncan Subject: I even passed Calculus...Re: De-lurk...for just a moment. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes...I have NO earthly (or any other planet) idea why i wrote that. I meant Season 4. Hopefully it was just a slip of the hand and nothing Freudian. Maybe I was reading S5 fic or something...hopefully. Thanks again....Doh! Rachel----who would be willing to see season 5 if it existed. Original post: << Hey...here speaks a long-time silent reader... I have two questions: I lost teh (hehehe) URL to Sandy's House o' fanfic. Wondering if any of you more organzied folcs had it. also, I was listening to some Season 5 wavs and realized that I missed more of the season than I thought. Is there any way I can get/buy tapes of Season 5? I feel so out of the loop now! Regarding grammar. I think I have learned more in these past few days than I did from my VERRRRY picky English teacher. Now whether or not I have the brains to apply it is another matter. Hey well, half of it's fanfic related. Thanks a lot, Rachel.>> Kathy Brown wrote: > At 8:49 PM -0400 9/19/98, Rachel Duncan wrote: > > >also, I was listening to some Season 5 wavs and realized that I missed > >more of the season than I thought. Is there any way I can > >get/buy tapes of Season 5? I feel so out of the loop now! > > You lost me here, Rachel. There are only 4 seasons of L&C. L&C never made > a 5th season. The only 5th seasons out there are fanfic ones, written by > various FoLCs groups. (Heh heh, folk groups ... ah, never mind. ) > > So, you haven't missed any tapes of a 5th season. Could you have meant the > 4th season of L&C? Or something else? > > Kathy > > ______________________ > Kathy Brown > kbrown@webmart.net > KathyB on IRC > ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 01:05:32 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: editing & adverbs & On Writing Well... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/98 12:49:47 PM Central Daylight Time, kubitc@KENYON.EDU writes: << Starting sentences with 'but' and 'and' is an interesting topic of conversation. Way back in elementary school I was taught that it was absolutely inappropriate in all cases, but I've often noticed fiction writers do it. IMO, it isn't appropriate in non-fiction writing and academic papers but I don't have a problem with it in fiction writing. I even do it myself if it fits the situation and sound I'm looking for. >> Using "but" and "and" to occasionally start a sentence is fairly common both in fiction and non-fiction today, and as you say, it is to convey the right thought for a given situation. In other words, they're not just conjunctions anymore Not that they were always trapped there realistically anyway. The word "but" teamed with "for" has been used for centuries to impart something that has nothing to with joining phrases and clauses (anyone else hearing the tune 'conjunction junction'? ;) As in the sentence 'But for all his great strength, Superman was left defeated by a mere mortal -- Lois Lane.' The words "yet", "though" and "however" are often substituted by those who want to assiduously avoid starting sentences with "but". As for me, I like words, their flexibility, strength, even personality ;) In dialog in particular you will find "and" or "but" at the lead, "And," she added. "But," he said ... and so on. And now for a word from our sponsors maggie13@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << ~Clutter~ The game is won or lost on hundreds of small details....Clutter is the laborious phrase that has pushed out the short word that means the same thing...Clutter is the ponderous euphemism that turns a slum into a depressed socioeconomic area, a salesman into a marketing representative, garbage collectors into waste-disposal personnel and the town dump into the volume reduction unit.....Physicians are physicians, friends are friends. The rest is clutter. >> Hee hee, this is my favorite part I hate whether it's a desire to be politically correct or just to confound, the use of idiotic euphemisms to describe something with five words that could have been better served with one or two. A short person becomes a "vertically challenged" person -- snicker! ;) >>>~The Audience~ "Who am I writing for?" It's a fundamental question, and it has a fundamental answer: You are writing for yourself......You are primarily writing to please yourself, and if you go about it with confidence you will also entertain the readers who are worth writing for.....<<< Another great point. If you're not writing to please yourself, then chances are you won't be writing something that pleases others. Have fun writing, especially if it's fanfic and it's out of love of the show and characters. Besides, we're not getting paid for it ;) Don't even fear adverbs if they really serve the best purpose in what you're trying to say. Be a little daring, or unconventional, it's not a test and there's no quiz later ;) "Riki's tail became all bottle-brushy" ;) kubitc@KENYON.EDU writes: >>Especially when writing dialogue, as when a character's dialogue is in perfect English. Most people don't talk in perfect English- they use contractions more often than not, and they also use words such as "gonna" & "wanna." And people often speak in fragments rather than sentences, or use incorrect English. I think the important thing is matching speech patterns with characters, not with grammar rules.<<< Definitely, I always 'red flag' an editor who wants grammatically correct dialog. One thing I remember when having Rhen as an editor is the time I had a denizen of Suicide Slum, whose grammar was awful, but I did slip at one point and make him sound grammatically better, and Rhen told me he needed to be slobbed up some more Now *that* is an editor ;) Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:28:49 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: I Only Have Oz For You Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/18/98 3:15:56 PM Central Daylight Time, erink@IDA.NET writes: << I just wanted to publicly tell the many terrific authors who write the round robin fanfics that I soooo much enjoy reading what they write! I'm partway through "I Only Have Oz For You", and have to say how impressed I am at your guys' writing abilities! >> I know this is late, but I'm way behind on everything ;) But on behalf of all the RR writers of the Oz story, I wanted to thank you for the kind words, Erin. I think we all had waaaaaay too much fun writing that one >>>I've had a couple of ppl encourage me to join in on these round robins, but I am *definitely* not an off-the-cuff writer. I edit my own *emails* to death! So I know I would be taking waaaay too long to write my section, and you'd all hate me.<< Ah, give it a try, it's fun and Eileen keeps a running log of the story and edits it for typos and misspellings and whatnot as we go along. Then it goes to Georgia for the *big* edit >>>Anyway, I just felt compelled to write and thank all the writers who participate in these terrific round robins, and say how much I admire you for being able to write in such a way, and for doing such a great job at it! <<< Well, we thank people like you for reading them ;) One confession I'll make is that I really enjoy stories that are connected in some way to actual episodes, as this one was connected to The Phoenix, or World Without Superman was connected to the Pilot. It's nostalgic and just plain fun to recreate scenes in prose. >>>Thanks for the stories, guys, and keep them coming!!<< Wait'll ya see what we do to Lex Luthor next Saturday, it's like Lois with silverware thanks again! Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 06:59:53 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: PJ Piasecki Subject: Re: I even passed Calculus...Re: De-lurk...for just a moment. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit And here I was thinking....'Wow, those S5 writers are even better than I thought - they made *wavs* of their stories!?! Piper ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:12:01 +1000 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Louise Kendall Subject: Re: editing & adverbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, writing people, if and, but and or are conjunctions why do people put a comma before them? In particular, I was taught never to put a comma in front of 'and'. Yet I see a lot of it, these days. For example - Zoom brought her husband, her reputation and her bright cheery attitude to the LAFFest. :) I've seen a lot of writers who would put a comma after reputation. Can someone help me with this puzzling problem :) jem (who is not actually a writer but she can always dream - and prepare, just in case :) -----Original Message----- From: Crystal Wimmer To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Date: Sunday, 20 September 1998 6:20 Subject: Re: editing & adverbs >In a message dated 9/19/98 8:27:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >jenerate@OZRAMP.NET.AU writes: > >> Bad enough to continually break the "don't start >> sentences with 'but' or 'and' - she then makes it worse by following the >> 'But' with a comma! I don't know for sure that it's bad grammar, but I do >> know that it bugs me! > >And, but, and or are conjunctions... to be used in the middle of a sentence. >They are designed to connect two related sentences or thoughts without >creating a run-on sentence. He went to the store, and he went to the bakery. >It is still best separated into two sentences, however (another conjunction) >it is grammatically correct. > >I am notorious for using commas to separate the text where a breath would >come, such as here, regardless of whether the comma is really necessary. I >*know* that it is grammatically incorrect, but it is a hard habit to break. I >am trying to do better. > >I am also notorious of confusing lose and loose... and I have no excuse. >Let's just say that after more than 30 people e-mailed me following my first >release of Full Circle (Yes, I did warn them that it was not edited...) I >haven't made the same mistake since. > >Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:16:46 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: editing & adverbs& commas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-20 07:13:22 EDT, jem@WEBONE.COM.AU writes: << OK, writing people, if and, but and or are conjunctions why do people put a comma before them? In particular, I was taught never to put a comma in front of 'and'. Yet I see a lot of it, these days. For example - Zoom brought her husband, her reputation and her bright cheery attitude to the LAFFest. :) I've seen a lot of writers who would put a comma after reputation. >> Ah well, this is different--- it's a list. According to Strunk & White a comma should be placed after that next to last item in a list (in this case, Zoom's reputation). Other style manuals disagree and don't recommend that last comma. Another editing note... Strunk & White recommends 's for all possesives even those where the "owner" ends in an s. So, this would mean that we write Lois's rather than Lois'. I know I've had this argument with writers I've edited but in the end, as long as they were consistent, I let it go. --Laurie (who is becoming self-conscious about commas) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 07:01:52 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: TAN: Eudora Pro Question (was Re: editing & adverbs) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:07 AM 9/19/1998 -0500, KathyB wrote: >[snip] I currently use Eudora Light, and like it a lot. >The fact that's it's free makes it even better. I got my first Eudora, 1.0, free when I signed up with my current provider 5 years ago (!). Eventually the program crashed for some reason, so I rushed out and bought 2.0. It took a bit of getting used to (it was a big jump) but I grew to like it a lot. When I upgraded to Windows 98 (from Win3.11), I also purchased Eudora Pro 4.0. >I've considered spending the money to get Eudora Pro (is it like $40?) Yes. It may vary by a few dollars depending on where you decide to buy it >but don't know what extra >features I'd be getting for that money. Is it worth it? I spend a lot of >time with my email program but I don't feel the need to pay for >features I won't use. > >So, anyone out there with experience with this program ... is it worth it? > >Debby mentioned spell checking, which would be very helpful (Eudora Light >doesn't have it.) What is drag and drop? Moving text around with the >mouse instead of cutting and pasting? Spell checking can save a person from making embarrassing errors :) The checker looks only at the non ">" material. Drag and drop means you can highlight words or phrases and drag (move) or copy them to a new area. Eudora 4.x is very much like a windows wordprocessing program nowadays. I had some problems initially with the storebought Eudora Pro 4.0. I don't know if it was me or if it was bugs in the program. I do know they are testing the newest version, 4.1, extensively, with quite a few beta versions announced, so when it's "golden" (done), it should be pretty good... but not free. I have upgraded my version 4.0 with a free, final upgrade to 4.0.2 (downloaded from Qualcomm's site) and now the programs to be very stable and friendly. I've gone from hating it and wishing I could find my old version 2.0 to really liking it--it does everything that 2.0 did and more, including a configurable tool bar (which could use some tweaking but it's okay in general). I don't know if the boxed version of Eudora out now is the 4.0.2 version or if it's still at 4.0, but once it is bought and registered, the 4.0 can be upgraded via the net, and when 4.1 is ready you can upgrade free to that or even help in the beta testing (which I'm not doing, I'm watching what's being said about it on a list serve dedicated to the program). >What about supporting links? If I type: mailto:Debby@swcp.com and if your current program can support it (or places like AOL can take it) that should turn into a link to me. Ditto ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/dstark It doesn't do it on screen but translates it once I hit the "Queue" button. Also links come in with mail and I can click on them and it will take me to IE4 (or Netscape) I also get on the net via Eudora: I'll be in the program and hit Control-T (transmit) or Control-M (get mail) and it will dial up for me, asking me for my password. This is in Win98 only as far as I know; I did it differently with Win3.11 >Like when someone puts a URL in their email >message and you can click on it and automatically go to the site in >Netscape? Yes. >I know that Netscape mail can do this, but do other programs >communicate with Netscape? Or is this something you can only do by using >the browser emailer? IE4 has a working relationship with Outlook, which I had considered trying out, but I've read things about Outlook that make me glad I'm sticking with Eudora. IE4 (and I assume Netscape) can be configured to use Eudora as the default mail program >Any other features I might find useful? A fairly good instruction book. It has never explained "labels" very well. I've made a tool bar button for "red" so that when there's an important message waiting for me to answer, I can turn it red on the list so it will catch my attention (the text itself isn't red though). It has a nice address book feature. I keep the Nfic list there, in batchs of about 50 or so. I like that I can make and chose from multiple sigs, though usually I default to "none". One can do a lot of formating (fonts, bolding, italics), but I usually don't send text out this way because there are plenty of email programs that still can't handle it (like I used to not be able to). When Eudora 4.0 first opens, it has a very cluttered screen, which is bad on my 14-inch monitor, but everything can be configured and moved out/turned off so one will have more room. With your experience in Eudora 3, Kathy, you should be able to move up okay. I started out with Eudora 1.0, then 2.0 and now 4.0.2 :) I grubbled a lot but am now pleased. I'll be happy to help anyone try to tweak their Eudora 4.n; I agree that feeling comfortable with ones email program is very important. Debby Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:34:45 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Regina Gilchrist Ash Subject: Superman stamps (Celebrate the Century - thru the PO) Comments: To: "loiscla@vm.ege.edu.tr" Hi, FoLC, A couple ppl had written asking for the info on ordering the Super Hero comics and/or stamps: The phone # for ordering the comics or the whole set of comics *and* the Celebrate the Century stamps is 1-800-845-0645. Hope this helps. The set of 10 comics are $14.95 and the entire set including stamps and albums runs $54.95. -- Regina Ash (rash@wncnet.net) ************************************************ "Science, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable >from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke *********************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:19:40 -0400 Reply-To: ruthlg@apk.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Ruth Link-Gelles Subject: Re: Superman stamps (Celebrate the Century - thru the PO) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi This is for anyone interested in the first day limited edition Superman stamps, posters that are limited edition, reprints of the first comic book Superman apeared in and T-shirts that are limited edition and have the stamp on them. These items are only avaliable in Cleveland. (I think) Well I happen to live in Cleveland. I have one T-shirt, one set of first day only stamps, one remake of the comic book and one poster that I would be willing to sell. E-mail me. Remember I only have one each. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:58:06 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessica Sweeney Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/19/98 7:27:23 AM, jenerate@OZRAMP.NET.AU writes: <> Okay, I'm coming out of my state of lurking to respond. ;) I was told by my Honors English teacher last year that "But" and "And" can be used to start sentences. We are just told that as children to keep us from sentence fragments. Once we grow and understand the bits and parts of a sentence it suddenly becomes okay for us to start sentences with words such as these. Most people do not understand this and it drives me crazy because most of the time the sentence turns into a run-on. (I would give you an example but it is Sunday and that would require thinking.) Another thing that bugs me are sentence contractions. I am a firm believer that unless something is being spoken you should just write out "do not" instead of "don't," or "would not" instead of "wouldn't." To me it just looks more professional. <> Margaret Mitchell's classic Gone With the Wind is one of these books. It does not really bug me, but the way Ms. Mitchell had Scarlett think was different (I thought this might be relevant due to the discussion of this topic). When she writes, she puts something like, "Scarlett thought: blah blah blah." (I do not have the book on hand right now or I would quote it.) Just a thought... Jessie~ LL3692@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:14:21 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: editing & adverbs& commas Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/20/98 7:17:03 AM Central Daylight Time, Larus2407@AOL.COM writes: << Ah well, this is different--- it's a list. According to Strunk & White a comma should be placed after that next to last item in a list (in this case, Zoom's reputation). Other style manuals disagree and don't recommend that last comma. >> This was a childhood nightmare, that I would end up the subject in an exercise of diagramming sentences (do they still diagram sentences? ;) As to the placement of commas, maybe Sheila can post the various rules on that here. I am in hopes that the "beginning writer forum" can get off the ground soon. It would be very helpful for new writers or writers who want to brush up on old, long-forgotten rules ;) The one comma that never seems to change, is the one in dialog that goes before the name of a character who is being addressed. This was something we spoke of on IRC last night. "He sucks, Lois!" "He sucks Lois!" (don't go there! ;) Zoomway@aol.com (the comma commando) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:26:33 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/20/98 11:59:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, LL3692@AOL.COM writes: > Another thing that bugs me are sentence contractions. I am a firm > believer that unless something is being spoken you should just write out "do > not" instead of "don't," or "would not" instead of "wouldn't." To me it just > looks more professional. In general I agree... but dialogue is the exception. "I cannot come to your party because you will not fix chocolate cake." People just don't talk like that... you can't "hear" it. "I can't come to your party 'cause you won't fix chocolate cake." It doesn't look as nice, but it *is* how most people talk (unless you are writing a proper character... but that get's into characterization, and that's another ballgame). There's also the use of "hmmm", "nah", "mmm hmmm", ect. They give my spell check a fit, but they also add character and life to stories... or at least I think so. I haven't received many complaints. Oh, and one final note... when I am on IRC or writing e-mails, I almost always use improper grammar... I want you to understand the personality of the writing as well as the actual message... that's just me. Please forgive me for that ;) Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:35:32 PDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Peace Everett Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <009a01bde487$7e67ed60$1f2c08d2@Louise> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jem wrote: > OK, writing people, if and, but and or are conjunctions why do people = put a > comma before them? In particular, I was taught never to put a comma = in > front of 'and'. Yet I see a lot of it, these days. For example - Zoom > brought her husband, her reputation and her bright cheery attitude to = the > LAFFest. :) I've seen a lot of writers who would put a comma after > reputation. Took a punctuation class at the company where I work (because I'm in the Word Processing department and we're expected to experts in this... snick= er). The subject of commas came up and our instructor told us a story (suppose= dly true) about a legal case: A wealthy man had three adult offspring: Bob, Mary, and John (not their = real names ;). John was married to Sue. After the father died, his will was = read: "My entire estate is to be divided equally among Bob, Mary, John and Sue.= " John and Sue assumed that this meant they would each receive a quarter = of the estate. Bob and Mary disagreed. The matter was taken to court, wher= e it was determined that, according to the way it was punctuated, the will = referred to three "entities": 1- "Bob" 2- "Mary" 3- "John and Sue" who were each to receive one third of the estate. For lack of a comma, = the estate was divided into thirds, not quarters, and John and Sue received = a great deal less money than they had expected to. According to our instructor, on the basis of that legal case, it is now = considered correct punctuation to include a comma after the next to the last item = in a list. Going back to answer Carol Malo's original question: >This is a question for fanfic editors. Are there some things that wri= ters >do that drive you nuts? What makes your task easier? Do you cringe whe= n you >get a long story? Aside from things that have already been mentioned, there are a couple = of things that bother me: who v. whom; and he/she v. him/her. Who v. Whom How do you know when to use which of these words? My company grammar class taught me a simple trick: Answer the question. If the answer is = I/he/she, use who. If the answer is me/him/her, use whom. "I confronted the professor [who/whom] would be teaching the class." [Who/whom] will be teaching the class? *She* will be teaching the class.= So the correct word is "who." "I confronted the professor who would be teaching= the class." "I confronted the professor [who/whom] I had chosen to teach the class." [Who/whom] had I chosen? I had chosen *him*. So the correct word is "wh= om." "I confronted the professor whom I had chosen to teach the class." [By the way, notice the strong, specific verb and object -- yes, I was = listening, Sheila! ] He/She v. Him/Her Something that just drives me nuts both in writing and in conversation = is the misuse of pronouns. "Him and me went to the bank." "That book was given to she and I." A trick to know when to use which is to make it singular. Would you ever= say "Him went to the bank" or "Me went to the bank"? No, probably not (IRC notwithstanding ;). So the correct sentence would be "He and I went to = the bank." Would you ever say "That book was given to she" or "That book was given = to I"? Nope. So the correct sentence is "That book was given to her and= me." Okay, I'll hush now! Peace Found me a sweet man -- wanna see the pictures? http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7137/syr/visit.html A FoLC Named Peace Come visit me, and read my Lois & Clark fanfic http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/7137 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:52:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Elizabeth Eve Davis Organization: Mississippi State University Subject: Nfic lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wondering if anyone knows how one might join the list to get Julie Mack's nfic. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:47:31 +0000 Reply-To: dom-mel@dial.pipex.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Dom Melaragni Subject: Re: Gotten (was Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <4ab9ca1c.36041b53@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > There was a British man who had spent some time in the States > and had become a bit enamored of the word "gotten". The really scary thing is that after spending so much time reading US written fanfiction etc, I find myself using it....which is fine in fanfics but not in everyday UK English where it just doesn't exist. It's gotten so that I have to change Word's spellchecker from US for fics to UK for work. Dom ================================================================= Dom Melaragni (FlakeyDom) The LnC drinking game and Fest pics http://ds.dial.pipex.com/dom-mel/index.htm ?8-)] Clark Kent smiley with the superhero squarejaw chin ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:41:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Bev Clark/Steve Gallacci Subject: Re: editing & adverbs& commas In-Reply-To: from "The Zoomway" at Sep 20, 98 03:14:21 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 9/20/98 7:17:03 AM Central Daylight Time, Larus2407@AOL.COM > writes: > > << Ah well, this is different--- it's a list. According to Strunk & White a > comma > should be placed after that next to last item in a list (in this case, Zoom's > reputation). Other style manuals disagree and don't recommend that last > comma. > >> This is called a "serial comma," to be precise. You probably don't see it very often because the style used by most newspapers and magazines (not to mention my company!), AP -- Associated Press -- Style, calls for it to be omitted in most cases. I happen to disagree with this judgment, because I think the serial comma makes the meaning more precise, so I use it in my personal writing. This does illustrate the difference between grammar and style. I worked as a professional editor (for a corporation) for several years and became all too familiar with having to explain the difference to our writers, professional and otherwise. Now I am a "professional communicator" (aka "PR flak") and I get edited myself...and when it comes to matters of style it doesn't matter whether I like house style or not, that's what all company publications use and that's how my work will be edited. Bev (trying not to get drawn into the grammar, style, and writing discussions but having a feeling that I will) bevnsag@netcom.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:43:17 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lori McElhaney Subject: Re: editing & adverbs - a funny Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Found this the other day, and thought I'd share. I didn't write this I'm just passing it along, I'm not sure of the original source Rules for Writers 1. Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects. 2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with. 3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction. 4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive. 5. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They're old hat) 6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration. 7. Be more or less specific. 8. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary. 9. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies. 10. No sentence fragments. 11. Contractions aren't necessary and shouldn't be used. 12. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos. 13. Do not be redundant; do not use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous. 14. One should NEVER generalize. 15. Comparisons are as bad as cliches. 16. Don't use no double negatives. 17. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc. 18. One-word sentences? Eliminate. 19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake. 20. The passive voice is to be ignored. 21. Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary. Parenthetical words however should be enclosed in commas. 22. Never use a big word when a diminutive one would suffice. 23. Kill all exclamation points!!! 24. Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them. 25. Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth shaking ideas. 26. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed. 27. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." 28. If you've heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times: Resist hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it correctly. 29. Puns are for children, not groan readers. 30. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms. 31. Even IF a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed. 32. Who needs rhetorical questions? 33. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement. And finally... 34. Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:35:06 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: -Audrey Howard Subject: Re: Nfic lists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm interested also. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:52:26 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Gotten (was Re: editing & adverbs Comments: To: dom-mel@dial.pipex.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-20 17:44:31 EDT, dom-mel@dial.pipex.com writes: << It's gotten so that I have to change Word's spellchecker from US for fics to UK for work. >> Geesh, can't you just add words/spellings to your spellchecker as they come up? That way no matter which way you write, it'll come through as correct. --Laurie (who long ago added "programme" and "centre" to all spell checks in use) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:56:36 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <199809200214.MAA24005@wallace.hotkey.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:15 PM 9/20/1998 +1000, Trish wrote: >.... other than that I think that the "**" for >telepathy etc don't bother me at all as I find they are quirks of fanfic. >Sure, they wouldn't be in books but we're not reading them. If people want >to structure their fanfics exactly like books then fine but if they dont >then also fine because it is writing for fun and love of the series which >is of uppermost importance here (at least that's my opinion). I agree with your opinion :) The main consideration *is* the fun of the writing. However, I say we have to write these things like books, like the stories are on sheets of typing paper, because the alternative is...? After all, there still plenty of people who use email programs, providers or both that cannot take/translate any kind of enhancements--like pictures (static or animated), .wavs, .avis, .movs, colors, different-sized fonts, bolds, italics, etc. They can't take attachments; they can't even surf the web for a variety of reasons. Were all the various available programs able to accept and display enhancements, then fanfic in this particular environment, the internet, would explode--almost literally! Think of coming across just the right picture of CK to illustrate a point in a story (I can write "Clark pursed his lips," but in this case a picture would be worth a thousand words). Or adding a wav of some sarcastic remark by lois, or changing fonts when a scene changes to help indicate the mood (and add some music as well). Such fanfic could become a cross between the written word (with handwriting fonts for notes the characters read, hmm?), comic books (with color drawings), and TV (with animated pictures). No trees would die for any of this. And that could be just the beginning. The next best thing, since email is still so limited, is to set up stories on a web site. Currently web sites are no better than ftp sites (that's why I have a perfectly adequate ftp site/closet). Take a favorite short story and "illustrate" it--animate it, help it sound off, add links that lead to character's thoughts, flash backs and explanations of tangential subjects or abstracts explaining show episodes the fanfic is referring to. Clark thinks about China? Have a link to a popular site about the country and an internal link to a story about Clark in China (ahem...). Lois can't decide who to marry? List her choices and make links: the Lex page, the Clark page, the nunnary page, the NOW page, etc :) Perry has an lot of assignments to hand out and not enough reporters? The site visitor can be a reporter by chosing links and deciding which story to commit to. This could be a build-it-yourself-type story. Actually, L&C solve a mystery *could* be done this way... hmm... Pulling back from doing a web site, some advanced wordprocessing programs offer linking, embed pictures and more, but how many readers can use and understand, say, Word 97? So... that's why when you say "If people want to structure their fanfics exactly like books..." I say, well, what choice do they have? What are readers used to? What will they tolerate when a new structure is used? And then I go off on tangents :) Debby Debby@swcp.com who, if she had time and $$, would consider some of the options above to do for herself... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:20:30 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: Nfic lists In-Reply-To: <36055CF3.B4C4F421@ra.msstate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:52 PM 9/20/1998 -0500, you wrote: >Just wondering if anyone knows how one might join the list to get Julie >Mack's nfic. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! To join the nfic list, you must be +17.99 years of age (an adult) because the reading material is written with adults in mind. You must also swear not to distribute any such fanfiction you receive through the list. If you meet the qualifications, feel free to write to me (not to this list), restating the above, confirming you are an adult and will not redistribute, and you'll learn more about the nfic list. Debby Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:19:06 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Martha Rasch Subject: Re: Nfic lists In-Reply-To: <869e7669.36059f3a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:35 PM 9/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >Mack's nfic. I would appreciate any help. Thanks!> > >I'm interested also. > Me three...I'd also like to know. Thanx, Martha (SupermaV) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:14:13 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lansbury 1 Subject: Writer's Showcase Comments: To: LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, It is that time again. I am happy to inform you there is a new featured Writer of the Week at the Lois and Clark: The New Adventure of Superman Writer's Showcase. Also, if you would like to suggest anyone or have a question you might like to see included in the interview, let me know. The URL is ...... http://simplyorganized.simplenet.com/showcase.html Annie Lansbury :) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:32:16 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: renate Subject: Re: editing & adverbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Who v. Whom >How do you know when to use which of these words? Who does things and whom has things done to him. Example: Who hit whom? That's how I remember the difference anyway. Rhen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:35:31 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessica Sweeney Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/20/98 11:26:56 AM, JCWimmer@AOL.COM writes: <> Crystal, My thoughts exactly. I must not have been clear, that is what I was trying to say. When people are speaking the use contractions is expected because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the story. Just my $.02. Jessie~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: I even passed Calculus...Re: De-lurk...for just a moment. In-Reply-To: <82746e32.3604e029@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 6:59 AM -0400 9/20/98, PJ Piasecki wrote: >And here I was thinking....'Wow, those S5 writers are even better than I >thought - they made *wavs* of their stories!?! > >Piper LOL!!!! Actually, though ... we did include the occasional wav file on the web versions of our stories. Every once in awhile, a character would use a line of dialogue they had used on the show, and we just had to include it. Those web versions were sure fun. :) Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:50:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gary Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 10:35 PM 09/20/1998 -0400, you wrote: > > My thoughts exactly. I must not have been clear, that is what I was >trying to say. When people are speaking the use contractions is expected >because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do >not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the story. >Just my $.02. > >Jessie~ > Email is dialogue. You're speaking in the above and breaking your own rule. Unless your claim is that contractions should never be written and only spoken? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu | | My personal FoLC/MATH website | | "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:25:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sheila Harper Subject: Contractions & commas (was: editing & adverbs) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:35 PM 9/20/98 EDT, you wrote: >When people are speaking the use contractions is expected >because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do >not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the story. Except that lots of times the writer is using limited third person point of view, so most or all of the narration is filtered through the perspective of a particular character. In that case, using the un-contracted word can be as unnatural as its use in dialogue. For example, in the story I'm working on now, I use the following bit of narrative: >>Clark nodded and continued across the newsroom. At 28, he'd been in the newspaper business for half a dozen years; he'd had front page stories in papers all over the world, but here he was a newcomer, and maybe from Paul's vantage point of twenty years, he *was* just a kid. He shrugged, his tweed sports jacket sliding loosely over his coarse cotton shirt.<< The above selection is so much from Clark's p.o.v. that it's almost an indirect quote of his thoughts, so the "he'd" reflects his speech patterns. BTW, I included the last sentence to point out that I, too, use -ly adverbs when I can't find a verb that gives the exact meaning I'm after :) So I hope no one assumes that my adverb advice meant fiction writers should *never* use adverbs (-ly or any other kind). And although I believe strongly in the use of strong, specific verbs, I don't always follow my own advice: notice the use of the boring "continued across the newsroom" in the first sentence. I couldn't find a single verb that created the image I was after, and I didn't want to spend too much time describing a simple transition from one scene to another, so I went for direct and boring: just get him the heck across the room. I'll pull the comma rules from one of our punctuation texts tomorrow and post them to this list. Off hand, I can recall 10 or 12 major rules controlling the comma, which explains why people have so much trouble with one little piece of punctuation and why I don't feel like tackling it at 9:30 at night . Sheila sharper@cncc.cc.co.us ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:42:20 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/20/98 11:18:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gar8434@RITVAX.ISC.RIT.EDU writes: << At 10:35 PM 09/20/1998 -0400, you wrote: > > My thoughts exactly. I must not have been clear, that is what I was >trying to say. When people are speaking the use contractions is expected >because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do >not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the story. >Just my $.02. > >Jessie~ > Email is dialogue. You're speaking in the above and breaking your own rule. Unless your claim is that contractions should never be written and only spoken? >> Did you get grounded a lot for being rude as a kid? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:57:10 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Contractions & commas (was: editing & adverbs) In-Reply-To: <360188F0000004F4@cncc.cncc.cc.co.us> (added by cncc.cncc.cc.co.us) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:25 PM -0500 9/20/98, Sheila Harper wrote: > notice the use of the boring "continued across the newsroom" in the >first sentence. I couldn't find a single verb that created the image I was >after, and I didn't want to spend too much time describing a simple >transition from one scene to another, so I went for direct and boring: just >get him the heck across the room. I think the biggest thing to remember is to use a *mix* of descriptions and parts of speech. There is nothing wrong with "direct and boring". Direct descriptions should be, IMO, the "core holdings" in your style library. Using "impact words" in every single description is a quick ticket to badfic. Kathy (who gets as distracted by flowerly round-about descriptions as I do by poorly written ones. ) ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:17:50 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Rachel Duncan Subject: To Debby - Sorry To everyone else. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BC57F671134C98CC8688243B" --------------BC57F671134C98CC8688243B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried to email you twice about your list. I'm sorry to have to send this over the fanfic list. It has been returned both times. Here is the message I got: ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.swcp.com.: >>> MAIL From: SIZE=80 <<< 553 ... Mail from 152.17.8.13 refused, see http://www.dorkslayer.com/orbs/ 501 ... Data format error Reporting-MTA: dns; f1n3.spenet.wfu.edu Received-From-MTA: DNS; DUNCRE02.computer.wfu.edu Arrival-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:09:58 -0400 (EDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; debby@swcp.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.3 Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.swcp.com Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: List Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:09:41 -0400 From: Dunc To: "debby@swcp.com" I am 18 (12/28/79). I would not distribute the fic from it to anyone. Thanks. --------------BC57F671134C98CC8688243B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried to email you twice about your list.  I'm sorry to have to send this over the fanfic list.  It has been returned both times.  Here is the message I got:
 
 ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications -----
<debby@swcp.com>  (unrecoverable error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.swcp.com.:
>>> MAIL From:<duncre02@wfu.edu> SIZE=80
<<< 553 <duncre02@wfu.edu>... Mail from 152.17.8.13 refused, see http://www.dorkslayer.com/orbs/
501 <debby@swcp.com>... Data format error
 
 
 

Reporting-MTA: dns; f1n3.spenet.wfu.edu
Received-From-MTA: DNS; DUNCRE02.computer.wfu.edu
Arrival-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:09:58 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; debby@swcp.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.3
Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.swcp.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:10:00 -0400 (EDT)
 

 Subject:
        List
   Date:
        Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:09:41 -0400
   From:
        Dunc <duncre02@wfu.edu>
     To:
        "debby@swcp.com" <debby@swcp.com>
 
 

I am  18 (12/28/79).
I would not distribute the fic from it to anyone.
Thanks.
 
 
  --------------BC57F671134C98CC8688243B-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:24:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: To Debby - Sorry To everyone else. In-Reply-To: <3605D36E.EE2C91DD@wfu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:17 AM -0400 9/21/98, Rachel Duncan wrote: > I have tried to email you twice about your list. I'm sorry to have to >send this over the fanfic list. It has been returned both times. Here is >the message I got: > > ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- > (unrecoverable error) You have the address correct, Rachel. Either Debby's ISP is down, or there is some other type of communication problem. Let's hope it's temporary. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:36:22 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessica Sweeney Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/20/98 7:45:34 PM, AMCiotola@aol.com writes: <<<< At 10:35 PM 09/20/1998 -0400, you wrote: > > My thoughts exactly. I must not have been clear, that is what I was >trying to say. When people are speaking the use contractions is expected >because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do >not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the story. >Just my $.02. > >Jessie~ > Email is dialogue. You're speaking in the above and breaking your own rule. Unless your claim is that contractions should never be written and only spoken? >>>> Thank you Anne! I'm sorry, I'm not trying to start a fight here. I have never considered e-mail conversation, but if it'll please you I'll use contractions... ;) -Jessie~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:24:55 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Erin Klingler Subject: Writing style that bugs me (was Re: editing & adverbs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0090_01BDE4E5.7EB867A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BDE4E5.7EB867A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all :) I just wanted to jump in here and contribute something to the thread = about what bugs me when editing OR reading a story. =20 Probably one of the biggest things that grates on my nerves while = editing or even *reading* a story is long paragraphs. That one thing = alone is enough to make me crazy. :) All too often, a long paragraph = is long because it seems to say the same exact thing over and over = again, or sometimes it just rambles on with irrelevant details. So when = I come across one, my mind tends to check out. =20 So, even if a long paragraph has a lot of important context within, I = find myself losing interest. Now, I have nothing against long stories. = Personally, they're my favorite. (Not that you'd know from the 228kb = fanfic I wrote ) But instead of grouping all those thoughts into = long paragraphs, separate them! Smaller paragraphs, at least in my = opinion, are tighter and will make the important thoughts you have = actually stand out. =20 Now, onto Jenny Stosser's question: << Anyone else have a favourite book where the author's style bugs you like this? >> Yeah, I'll jump in here. It's something that has been bugging me for = quite a while. ;) I've been reading several of the books from the Anne = (of Green Gables, of Ingleside, etc) series, as I am a big fan of Anne = of Green Gables (especially the movie version ). Now, I'm probably = going to get flamed for this, but her writing style can grate on my = nerves at times. NOW WAIT! Before you throw cyber tomatoes at me, let = me explain myself. First of all, she has the prettiest wording, and really does a great job = of getting into her character's dialogues. But the part that bugs me is = that she never seems to take the time to really paint a picture of what = is going on. I am a big fan of writers (especially LNC fanfic writers ) who "paint = a picture", so to speak. I LOVE to feel like I'm in the scene, seeing = the characters' hand gestures, facial expressions, and most of all, = *feel* their moods as the story progresses. The writers who make me = forget that I am reading by taking me into the scenes with their = characters have my undying devotion and loyalty. ;) So in the one book = of hers that I just read, I was very disappointed when Anne's marriage = to Gilbert took something like TWO sentences. Now come on! Such a = romantic and long-awaited scene deserves some serious (and WAFFy ) = attention. And she does tend to fall into my opening pet peeve of writing long = paragraphs. Because of them, I found myself skimming through a lot of = her books. So anyway, as much as I enjoy her stories, the lack of = scene development leaves me wanting. :( =20 But on a brighter note, thanks to all those fanfic writers here and in = FoLCdome who do such a great job with drawing me into the story by = making me feel like I'm right there with the characters. Keep it up! :) Erin :) aka ELK on IRC erink@ida.net =20 ******************** "The truth is no one knows how long they've got. Anyway, it's not the = years that count, it's the moments...right now, as they happen." ***=20 "You bet your sweet chumpy I am." ******************** ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BDE4E5.7EB867A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all :)
 
I just wanted to jump in here and contribute = something=20 to the thread about what bugs me when editing OR reading a story. =20
 
Probably one of the biggest things that grates on my nerves while = editing=20 or even *reading* a story is long paragraphs.  That one thing alone = is=20 enough to make me crazy.  :)  All too often, a long paragraph = is long=20 because it seems to say the same exact thing over and over again, or = sometimes=20 it just rambles on with irrelevant details.  So when I come across = one, my=20 mind tends to check out. 
 
So, even if a long paragraph has a lot of important context within, = I find=20 myself losing interest.  Now, I have nothing against long = stories. =20 Personally, they're my favorite.  (Not that you'd know from the = 228kb=20 fanfic I wrote <g>)  But instead of grouping all those = thoughts into=20 long paragraphs, separate them!  Smaller paragraphs, at least in my = opinion, are tighter and will make the important thoughts you have = actually=20 stand out. 
 
Now, onto Jenny Stosser's = question:
<< Anyone else have a favourite book where the author's style = bugs=20 you
like this? >>
 
Yeah, I'll jump in here.  It's something that has been bugging = me for=20 quite a while. ;)  I've been reading several of the books from the = Anne (of=20 Green Gables, of Ingleside, etc) series, as I am a big fan of Anne of = Green=20 Gables (especially the movie version <g>).  Now, I'm probably = going=20 to get flamed for this, but her writing style can grate on my nerves at=20 times.  NOW WAIT!  Before you throw cyber tomatoes at me, let = me=20 explain myself. <bg>
 
First of all, she has the prettiest wording, and really does a = great job of=20 getting into her character's dialogues.  But the part that bugs me = is that=20 she never seems to take the time to really paint a picture of what is = going=20 on.  I
 
 am a big fan of writers (especially LNC fanfic writers = <g>) who=20 "paint a picture", so to speak.  I LOVE to feel like I'm = in the=20 scene, seeing the characters' hand gestures, facial expressions, and = most of=20 all, *feel* their moods as the story progresses.  The writers who = make me=20 forget that I am reading by taking me into the scenes with their = characters have=20 my undying devotion and loyalty.  ;)  So in the one book of = hers that=20 I just read, I was very disappointed when Anne's marriage to Gilbert = took=20 something like TWO sentences.  Now come on!  Such a romantic = and=20 long-awaited scene deserves some serious (and WAFFy <g>) = attention.
 
And she does tend to fall into my opening pet = peeve of=20 writing long paragraphs.  Because of them, I found myself skimming = through=20 a lot of her books.   So anyway, as much as I enjoy her = stories, the lack of scene development leaves me wanting. =20 :(   
 
But on a brighter note, thanks to all those fanfic writers here and = in=20 FoLCdome who do such a great job with drawing me into the story by = making me=20 feel like I'm right there with the characters.  Keep it up! = :)
 
Erin :)
aka ELK on IRC
erink@ida.net
 
************= ********
"The=20 truth is no one knows how long they've got.  Anyway, it's not the = years=20 that count, it's the moments...right now, as they=20 happen."
         &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;   =20 ***
"You bet your sweet chumpy I=20 am."
********************
------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BDE4E5.7EB867A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:06:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Atcliffe, Phillip" Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? In-Reply-To: <7e8f1d25.3602af81@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:07:45 EDT The Zoomway wrote a rather good answer to Layney's question as to how Superman flies. Part of this was: > I'll leave it to one of the "silver age" Superman fans to explain (if there was any) how Superman flew in that era. < Someone may be able to quote from a Silver Age (SA) story that I either haven't read or can't remember, but in lieu of that, the only mention that I can think of in this respect was from a Super_girl_ story, in which a race of aliens were making her do all sorts of super-feats in order to measure her powers. Her flying power was measured at "50 Anti-Grav Units". Now, what an Anti-Grav Unit is, deponent knoweth not (though I could make a good guess); the important thing is that this specifically states that Kara's flight is due to some form of anti-gravity. The hows and whys of this were never explored, but that's typical for SA stuff -- never mind the science, just tell the story.... Phil, who could come up with a _lot_ of questions in this regard; for instance, what quirk of Kryptonian anatomy produces an a-g field, and why does it only work when away >from a red sun? ------------------------------------------------------------ "I think... I think I am! | I think _I_ am: Therefore I am... I think?" | Phil Atcliffe -- The Moody Blues | (Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Atcliffe, Phillip" Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <199809200214.MAA24005@wallace.hotkey.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 12:15:43 +1000 trish wrote: > Sheila wrote: >> Sort of like the kids who don't recognize that "would've" really means "would have," not "would of," or the ones whose families say "he don't," so it's almost impossible to teach them subject-verb agreement because incorrect usage doesn't sound wrong to them. << > I laughed out loud when I read that. A friend of mine at Uni. was incredulous when I explained to him that what he was writing didn't make sense because of that rule. He swore to me black and blue that "would've" meant "would of" and was a little red-faced when he asked our tutor who then explained the rule to him again . < I'd laugh, but I see so much of it that it makes me feel ill. The problem is _not_ helped by some pro authors (no names, no pack drill) deliberately using the incorrect construction in the speech of less-well-educated/lower-class characters. Thus, Harry Stow-Crat says "would've", or even "would have", but Joe Slob says "would of". Which means that people can point to their work and say, "well, _he_ does it!" B-( Now, my pet peeve, even more than their/there/they're, it's/its and loose/lose is "your" and "you're" ("yaw", which I use a lot professionally, we will not consider ). IMO (admittedly biased) the majority of people on the net, including fanfic authors, get this one wrong! Of course, the real pain is seeing my own son get it wrong in his schoolwork _and_it's_not_picked_up_by_his_teacher!_ Phil, who prefers reading fanfic, however badly-written, to some of the lab reports that I have to deal with ------------------------------------------------------------ Gravity is a Downer... So let's go flying! -- so sayeth Phil Atcliffe (Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:36:40 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:35:51 -0400 "Atcliffe, Phillip" wrote: [re. incorrect usages...] > Of course, the real pain is seeing my own son get it wrong > in his schoolwork _and_it's_not_picked_up_by_his_teacher!_ > > mutter> > Well, I teach in a middle-ranking UK university, so it might be assumed that my students are better educated than the average. Not so, at least when it comes to spelling and grammar. Yes, I get the hated 'would of' from time to time; I also get 'alot' instead of 'a lot', and a number of other similarly conflated words. And what is worse, even when I correct the usage on the students' essays, they still make the same errors the next time! I am still firmly convinced that the Irish educational system is far superior... Wendy ---------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:10:58 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: To Debby - Sorry To everyone else. In-Reply-To: <3605D36E.EE2C91DD@wfu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:17 AM 9/21/1998 -0400, Rachel wrote: > > I have tried to email you twice about your list. I'm sorry to have to send > this over the fanfic list. It has been returned both times. Here is the > message I got: > [snip!] Strange... I don't know if this is the case, but sometimes my provider gets tired of spam and cuts out certain other providers... unfortunately, in the past, this has included my brother's provider :( We're trying to work that out with that particular provider. Also, all kinds of other things can happen, like birds sitting on the phone wires, I think. Anyhow, I'll gladly process your request today :) Debby Debby@swcp.com sending this to the list to let you all know I'm still here :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:33:22 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Gotten (was Re: editing & adverbs) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:30:52 -0500 Kathy Brown wrote: > Interesting that you should bring this up, however, because I recently had > a email conversation with a writer from the UK on this very topic. In > editing her story, I suggested a dialogue change (or maybe it was > narrarive, can't remember) which included the word "gotten". She replied > that she would not change it because she didn't consider "gotten" a word. > She added something like "Maybe it's an American word, but I don't think > anyone actually uses it." > I think this was me :) 'Gotten' is not used in UK English, and although I recognise it as an 'Americanism', it is not a word I particularly like, and I would never use it myself in speech or writing. However - and this is where Kathy and I reached agreement in relation to a different (to me, unfamiliar) usage - in dialogue, in L&C fanfic, I have used it, where it seems appropriate: Perry, for example, would use it in speech. Wendy ---------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:52:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carrie Lu Sullivan Organization: MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com:80) Subject: Re: How does Supes fly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Superman is stronger than the earths gravitational pull. Thus he is weightless.. that's how he apears to fly... --- Carrie Sullivan On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:06:59 Atcliffe, Phillip wrote: >On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:07:45 EDT The Zoomway > wrote a rather good answer to Layney's >question as to how Superman flies. Part of this was: > >> I'll leave it to one of the "silver age" Superman fans to >explain (if there was any) how Superman flew in that era. < > >Someone may be able to quote from a Silver Age (SA) story >that I either haven't read or can't remember, but in lieu >of that, the only mention that I can think of in this >respect was from a Super_girl_ story, in which a race of >aliens were making her do all sorts of super-feats in order >to measure her powers. Her flying power was measured at "50 >Anti-Grav Units". > >Now, what an Anti-Grav Unit is, deponent knoweth not >(though I could make a good guess); the important thing is >that this specifically states that Kara's flight is due to >some form of anti-gravity. The hows and whys of this were >never explored, but that's typical for SA stuff -- never >mind the science, just tell the story.... > >Phil, who could come up with a _lot_ of questions in this >regard; for instance, what quirk of Kryptonian anatomy >produces an a-g field, and why does it only work when away >>from a red sun? >------------------------------------------------------------ >"I think... I think I am! | I think _I_ am: > Therefore I am... I think?" | Phil Atcliffe > -- The Moody Blues | (Phillip.Atcliffe@uwe.ac.uk) > Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:27:08 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Elizabeth Eve Davis Organization: Mississippi State University Subject: Re: Writing style that bugs me (was Re: editing & adverbs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So in the one > book of hers that I just read, I was very disappointed when Anne's > marriage to Gilbert took something like TWO sentences. Now come on! > Such a romantic and long-awaited scene deserves some serious (and > WAFFy ) attention. > I have loved those books for years, and ever since I read the wedding scene I have felt extremely cheated!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:35:03 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Re: Contractions & commas (was: editing & adverbs) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-21 03:38:32 EDT, you write: << Using "impact words" in every single description is a quick ticket to badfic. >> Ooooh! I want one of those tickets! I've been waiting for another round of badfic to hit the list! Marie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Martin Pierce Subject: Re: Nfic lists Hi, Debby--I'm WAY over 18 and agree not to distribute any Nfic. Actually, I may have gotten info on your list once before, since I have a password in my desk that I've lost track of what it goes to (how's that for a grammatically correct sentence??). But I'd like to get the info again! Thanks. Debbie mpierce0@msn.com -----Original Message----- From: Debby To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Date: Sunday, September 20, 1998 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Nfic lists >At 02:52 PM 9/20/1998 -0500, you wrote: >>Just wondering if anyone knows how one might join the list to get Julie >>Mack's nfic. I would appreciate any help. Thanks! > >To join the nfic list, you must be +17.99 years of age (an adult) because >the reading >material is written with adults in mind. You must also swear not to >distribute any >such fanfiction you receive through the list. > >If you meet the qualifications, feel free to write to me (not to this >list), restating >the above, confirming you are an adult and will not redistribute, and >you'll learn >more about the nfic list. > >Debby >Debby@swcp.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:59:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Susan Subject: Re: Writing style that bugs me (was Re: editing & adverbs) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Delurking for a momento :) You are both SOOO right on this! I loved the series and the characters but sometimes I *did* feel like something was missing...thanks for helping me understand WHY I felt that way :) Susan ---Elizabeth Eve Davis wrote: > > So in the one > > book of hers that I just read, I was very disappointed when Anne's > > marriage to Gilbert took something like TWO sentences. Now come on! > > Such a romantic and long-awaited scene deserves some serious (and > > WAFFy ) attention. > > > > > I have loved those books for years, and ever since I read the wedding > scene I have felt extremely cheated!! > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:09:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gary Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <4b313050.3605d7c6@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT At 12:36 AM 09/21/1998 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/20/98 7:45:34 PM, AMCiotola@aol.com writes: > ><<<< At 10:35 PM 09/20/1998 -0400, you wrote: > > > > My thoughts exactly. I must not have been clear, that is what I was > >trying to say. When people are speaking the use contractions is expected > >because people speak using them. However, in text it just looks like you do > >not want to take the time to write out the word. It takes away from the > story. > >Just my $.02. > > > >Jessie~ > > > > Email is dialogue. You're speaking in the above and breaking your own rule. > Unless your claim is that contractions should never be written and only > spoken? > >>>> > >Thank you Anne! I'm sorry, I'm not trying to start a fight here. I have never >considered e-mail conversation, but if it'll please you I'll use >contractions... ;) > >-Jessie~ > Who said anything about pleasing me? I'm just trying to understand what you said. Please examine definition 2, with particular emphasis on part b. What I was trying to say above, do you believe that contractions should be limited to those instances which fall under definition 1? (taken from Hotmail's dictionary) Main Entry: 1di.a.logue Variant(s): also di.a.log /'dI-&-"log, -"l@g/ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English dialoge, from Old French dialogue, from Latin dialogus, from Greek dialogos, from dialegesthai to converse, from dia- + legein to speak -- more at LEGEND Date: 13th century 1 : a written composition in which two or more characters are represented as conversing 2 a : a conversation between two or more persons; also : a similar exchange between a person and something else (as a computer) b : an exchange of ideas and opinions c : a discussion between representatives of parties to a conflict that is aimed at resolution 3 : the conversational element of literary or dramatic composition 4 : a musical composition for two or more parts suggestive of a conversation =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu | | My personal FoLC/MATH website | | "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:28:02 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Donna Hafner Subject: Re: Writing style that bugs me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit << Anyone else have a favourite book where the author's style bugs you like this? >> It's not a 'favorite' but I have been trying to slug though Tom Clancy's new book 'Rainbow Six' this last week, and let me tell you, the man never heard about maintaining a particular point of view. It's been driving me crazy. Mr. Clancy changes the POV so erratically the reader feels like an indecisive Superman whirling through multiple costume changes. Sometimes I wonder if I wasn't happier as a reader before I took some writing courses and before I became involved in editting fanfic. It's not like I was grammatically illiterate before, but both experiences seemed to turn on some 'edit mode' button in my brain so now I am unable to read non-critically. Sort of like riding in a car was less nerve-wracking before I learned how to drive. Last week I read a medical thriller that had a good plot, but some of its poorly structured sentences really bugged me and I couldn't stop rewriting them in my head. In the Tom Clancy book mentioned above, my brain froze when I spotted a typo toward the beginning. How could they charge almost $30 if they're going to allow typos! (My copy is from the library ) I know others have mentioned this problem so I know I'm not alone, but sometimes it might be nice to go back to my pre-edit days when I'm just reading for pleasure. If only my 'edit mode' button had an 'off' switch. DonnaH donnah7@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:46:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Susan Subject: Way off topic: L&C fan fic web pages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello! I would like to add a L&C fan fiction links web page on my site. I know that a lot of you put your web pages in your sig line but I would appreciate it if you could send me your links PRIVATELY also. This is a selfish endeavor...I would love to have all the links on one page for easier access for my own enjoyment and maybe it would help others as well :) Thanks much, Susan super_susan@yahoo.com (going back now into lurk mode) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:06:31 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > wrote: >> Of course, the real pain is seeing my own son get it wrong >> in his schoolwork _and_it's_not_picked_up_by_his_teacher!_ Argh! I would be screaming too! You can bet I'd be writing a letter or having a talk with his teacher. At 11:36 AM +0100 9/21/98, Wendy Richards wrote: > I also get 'alot' instead of 'a lot', Yes, that is a pretty common one, too. I'm with you; it drives me nuts. It is just plain wrong. A similar word is "alright", a word that I try not to use (it should be "all right". Now, however, I understand that "alright" has been added to some dictionaries. In mine, however, it says "a spelling of all right that is not yet considered acceptable". Now, I will concede that "alright" might be acceptable in dialogue if the author wants to argue it's a pronunciation thing ... kind of like "would of" (in dialogue only) or "there're" (for there are). However, I still change it to "all right" in my stories. Heh heh, I've got one that I use in speech that is so wrong ... how many of you have caught yourself or someone else saying "a whole nother thing". LOL, I do it all the time! At 12:33 PM +0100 9/21/98, Wendy Richards wrote: >I think this was me :) 'Gotten' is not used in UK English, and >although I recognise it as an 'Americanism', it is not a word I >particularly like, and I would never use it myself in speech or >writing. However - and this is where Kathy and I reached agreement >in relation to a different (to me, unfamiliar) usage - in dialogue, >in L&C fanfic, I have used it, where it seems appropriate: Perry, for >example, would use it in speech. Yes, it was you. :) See, that conversation made me question my word choice and even check on "gotten" in my dictionary. Was I relieved to find that I was using it correctly for my version of the language. Kathy (always learning from editors and authors. :)) ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:37:36 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Laurie Stroh Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I wasn't going to get on this bandwagon but now I just can't resist. My biggest pet peeve when either reading or listening to someone is the use of the phrase "I could care less." That is NOT the correct phrase. It is "I couldn't care less." Or for those of you who don't like contractions, "I could not care less". My second biggest pet peeve is the use of "anyways." I hear this a lot in conversation and it should not be plural. The correct word is "anyway." Laurie - who is hardly an English major but knows when something sounds wrong. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:31:23 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Writing style that bugs me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-09-21 12:48:28 EDT, DonnaH7@AOL.COM writes: << Sometimes I wonder if I wasn't happier as a reader before I took some writing courses and before I became involved in editting fanfic. It's not like I was grammatically illiterate before, but both experiences seemed to turn on some 'edit mode' button in my brain so now I am unable to read non-critically. >> LOL!! This is so true--and I'm much more self-conscious about what I write--even in e-mail to you all. I do know exactly what you mean as I can't visit museums without being critical after having courses in interpretive design and spending some of that time critiquing exhibits and presentations. --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:01:28 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jane Zhao Subject: Nfic Lists Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I swear that I'm an adult and will not distribute!! and my name is Jane. If you could please add me to the list it'll be greatly appreciated! Thanks jane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:40:00 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pat Subject: Re: editing & adverbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laurie S wrote: >I wasn't going to get on this bandwagon but now I just can't resist. My >biggest pet peeve when either reading or listening to someone is the use of >the phrase "I could care less." That is NOT the correct phrase. It is "I >couldn't care less." Or for those of you who don't like contractions, "I could >not care less". I wasn't going to jump in either, but since you've hit upon my pet peeve, Laurie, I have to join in, too. The most amazing/annoying thing about this phrase is that the first time I heard it, it came >from my high school English teacher! She was a very good English teacher in all other respects, so initially, some of us thought that she'd deliberately made the error as a way of challenge us to cite the rule of grammar that it violated. Not so; when I had a senior composition class with her, three years later, she was still using the phrase. She was convinced that it was correct! >My second biggest pet peeve is the use of "anyways." I hear this a lot in >conversation and it should not be plural. The correct word is "anyway." I'll give second place honors to the use of "yous" "you's" or "youse" as the plural form of you. I'm told this is a local error confined to the Midwest, and that it's an especially common mistake in Chicago. I don't know if that's the actual case--any comments from the rest of the world on this one? Pat peabody@mcs.com pattijean@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:46:23 MDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: DEBRA GRAY Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_VcUX0960Sil61483178" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_VcUX0960Sil61483178 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry FoLCs - I sent this off some days ago and have not seen it show up on the list. Can't imagine why, so here's a re-post. Debra G ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_VcUX0960Sil61483178 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 204.244.119.163 by mail.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Sat Sep 19 02:07:41 GMT 1998 Date: 18 Sep 98 20:07:41 MDT From: DEBRA GRAY To: owner-loiscla-general-l@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: Fanfic Resources Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Debby wrote: OOOHHHHH - another Star Trek author? I wrote a Star Trek: Next Generation story several years ago, and that's what really got me into fanfic and writing and all of this. I have often wished to find someone to help me edit my first story so I could learn to do it right and maybe get up the courage to post it, and also maybe get back into this writing thing, with other series. Well, actually, now that I'm blathering, I've recently started stories in both original Star Trek and X-Files, but haven't had much time to spend on either, because of moving and looking for a job! And now that we're getting L&C here in Vancouver, once I've refreshed my memory maybe I'll find a good Superman storyline to work with. Well, back to lurking and trying to figure out IRC so we can maybe start a beginner's roundrobin group. BTW - Anyone intersted in that, e me, or Zoom or Annie Lansbury so we know we're not just spinning our wheels, K? Thanks. Debra G dlgray@usa.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_VcUX0960Sil61483178-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:51:14 MDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: DEBRA GRAY Subject: Fwd: [roundrobin reaction - yeah, I know it's late!] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_Vczo4448Sil19007f9f" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_Vczo4448Sil19007f9f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me again. Realised that this one never got out either. What the *&%^$# is wrong with my mailer? Debra G ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_Vczo4448Sil19007f9f Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 209.52.255.22 by mail.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Sun Sep 6 23:17:34 GMT 1998 Date: 6 Sep 98 17:17:34 MDT From: DEBRA GRAY To: Folc Mailing List Subject: roundrobin reaction - yeah, I know it's late! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wanted to tell the roundrobin group how much I loved "Hickory Myxery Dock" - did I get the title right? I'm very behind in my fanfic reading, and have only gotten to it now, but I absolutely loved it! You are a very talented group, and I feel honored to be able to associate myself with you like this. Keep up the good work, guys! Debra G. dlgray@usa.net PS - Vancouver, BC and northern Washington FoLCs rejoice - TV 12 out of Bellingham is airing LC starting tomorrow. In Vancouver, that is Rogers Cable channel 12, but the rest of you will have to check the TV Guide. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_Vczo4448Sil19007f9f-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:14:02 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: editing & adverbs In-Reply-To: <007501bde5d2$4bfce640$725ffdcd@peabody> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:40 PM -0700 9/21/98, Pat wrote: >I'll give second place honors to the use of "yous" "you's" or "youse" >as the plural form of you. I'm told this is a local error confined to >the Midwest, and that it's an especially common mistake in Chicago. >I don't know if that's the actual case--any comments from the rest of >the world on this one? My cousins used to say that when I was growing up in the Detroit suburbs. They lived in Hamtramck, which is known for its large Polish community. I can remember my cousin calling out to her younger siblings when they would bug us "hey, youse guys get out of here; we're talking." Of course, that cousin now has Masters in genetics, has a successful hospital genetic counseling practice, and just married a radiologist. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:56:28 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: editing & adverbs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/21/98 5:42:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, peabody@MCS.COM writes: << I'll give second place honors to the use of "yous" "you's" or "youse" as the plural form of you. I'm told this is a local error confined to the Midwest, and that it's an especially common mistake in Chicago. I don't know if that's the actual case--any comments from the rest of the world on this one? >> Okay ... maybe I'm way off base here, but wouldn't this fall under the category of ebonies or another cultural language difference? It may be appropriate, but only in conversation, when you are trying to convey a specific personality to a character. I know that I often use "y'all" and that is definitely a geographical/cultural idiosyncrasy. Just a thought. Crystal (who just watched her spell-check pitch-a-fit over this post ;) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:59:52 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Lynda D. Love" Subject: Re: Writing style that bugs me Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What bugs me when I read/edit a story? Well, others have mentioned some of my pet peeves already (your and you're --agreed, Phil), there is one thing that I haven't seen addressed here yet: monotonous sentence structure. He went to the store. He bought a head of lettuce. He paid the cashier. He walked home. Boring! Each sentence has the same exact structure. Even if you changed one of the 'he's' to 'Clark' it would still be the same sentence structure: subject, verb, object. Sentence structure needs to be mixed up in a paragraph and in a story. I spend a lot of time when I write and edit on how a story *flows*. Does the story read smoothly or am I getting stuck on a particular phrase? Hence, many of the suggestions I make to my authors may not necessarily be mistakes, but something that helps the reader to read the story, and by extension, to stay in the involved in the story. Another pet peeve of mine is when a writer never uses a transitional word or phrase. Transitional words help the flow of a story, helping move the reader from one topic to the next without jarring changes. To keep myself in line, I still often refer to a dog-eared copy of transitional words and phrases from high school. My favorite grammar book is 'The New Well-Tempered Sentence,' subtitled, 'A Punctuation Handbook for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed,' written by Karen Elizabeth Gordon. The sentences Ms. Gordon uses to illustrate her point are both preposterous and funny. This is no ordinary grammar book! Example: She powered her nose, her body, her alibies, etc., to meet his scrutiny intact. Lynda Lynda D. Love (Rxiris@aol.com) --One of the worst mistakes you can make as a gardener is to think you're in charge. -Janet Gillespie