From: "L-Soft list server at Indiana University (1.8d)" To: "ARTF@MemoryAlpha.nil" File: "LOISCLA-GENERAL-L LOG9808D" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:52:52 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Leanne Shawler Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sandy writes: >>First of all, I want to concede that roundrobins -- if the "Lone Rider" >>is an example of them -- have gotten better, more polished and more >>enjoyable for the reader. But, I still maintain, that they are a >>better exercise for the writer, than for their audience. Writers get >>to collaborate, and they learn from each other. At least, I'm assuming >>that they do. I don't quite understand where the give-and-take is -- >>where the opportunity is to give advice and get it. I suppose it's >>during the planning session. misha responds: >Your comments on the nature of Round Robins puzzles me. If you've watched >one or participated in one, please stop me, but in my experience, the RR >isn't an exercise- it's an experience that isn't necessarily about the >writing. I'll admit, the immediate response to your section once you've >finished writing, while your palms are still damp, and your fingers are >shaking, is something that can't really be replicated, but that isn't why I >keep coming back. The social interaction with other writers is just as much >of a thrill. > I think that was what Sandy was trying to say (or perhaps I'm putting words in her mouth *grin*). Round Robins seem to be more for the writer's pleasure than that of the reader's. Of course, the reader will get a story to read out of it -- but they miss out on seeing the creation of it, which seems to be the thrill for RR writers (it terrifies me, frankly *smile*). Which you know, ain't bad for someone who hasn't (as far as I know) participated in a round robin and doesn't know the immediate effect it has on the writers involved. >>like to get a sense of an author's voice or take on a story. I think >>stories done by committee are fine but they're not the best, or we would >>have seen more masterpieces of collective writing other than the >>Bible. Writing is -- at the heart of it -- a very singular >>occupation. >Ah...the Bible. I'll assume you're speaking of the King James version (I >shouldn't, but that's the one I grew up with), which was assembled from the >various Latin and Greek versions of the early 1600's into something that >was meant to 'sound good'. And it does. But the disparate styles are even >more jarring than any round robin I've ever seen. (Try comparing >Deuteronomy and Song of Solomon ;) > It's not just the versions the Bible was written in -- they were written by many different authors with a few hundred years between them. I think Sandy's example is a little inexact. The Bible's more like an anthology of stories than a cohesive whole. >>Secondly, I wonder why you don't do a soulmates story where either Lois >>and/or Clark are unable to pursue the romance -- either by virtue of >>marriage or any other impediment. After all, they can't always be >>free. >Yes, but where's the fun in that? The idea of the round robins is to have >fun, and the idea behind the soulmates is to show the romance, and with a >serious impediment, all you have left is angst. While angst is certainly a >valid vehicle in fiction, I seriously doubt it has much of a place in >either the Soulmates Chronicles or RRs in general. > I for one would be interested in reading it. If there's no impediment (serious or otherwise) where's the conflict? Sure there's angst -- but look at the big romances: Tristan & Isolde, Guinevre/Arthur/Lancelot, Romeo & Juliet, Abelard & Heloise. Um, sure, they're also tragedies, but their love never died. And Tempus is supposed to have cursed L&C's souls after all! On a more modern note, Katherine Kerr's Deverry series does some marvelously delicious twists with her three intertwined souls. >>Well, thanks for putting up with all these posts. I hope I haven't >>annoyed anyone. Please recognize that the very fact that I wrote three >>e-mails and put so much thought into this is because I know that the >>participants care so much. In light of that, I gave my comments as much >>thought and consideration as you would want and deserve -- as *I* would >>want and deserve if I were a participant. >The participants care deeply about their work, and while I can see how you >think your comments are made respectfully, I feel that an in-depth edit, >including typos, word choice and sentence structure, is much more >appropriate to private email to the participants, preferrably prior to the >publication of the fic. As a reader, I expect a review to include positive >and negative comments about the fic, and a recommendation (perhaps with >qualifications- like a reminder that the fic in question is a RR). Well, I learnt some stuff out of this -- and not being one of the writers. I'm gonna have to go look up temporize and extemporize now! As Sandy stated at the start of her post -- in S5, an individual's edits were frequently posted to the whole group. We felt this would be a better way to learn from others' mistakes (and we all make them!) and I think that was Sandy's point in posting every little bit of it here. You could call it a writer's review, rather than a reader's review. And Sandy's past reviews have included some grammar stuff as well, so it's not exactly new, only more detailed. With a group of authors it's a little more difficult, but perhaps Sandy could run it by the author first before posting, in case the author has objections in being reviewed in that manner? Just an idea. I wouldn't mind it, but then, I have my editors editing saved for posterity on my website for the edification of others :) (which I really gotta update) Leanne Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com) Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page: http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 06:27:41 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review (Part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, I reckon as how I ought to reply (cool syntax, eh? ;) I'll only respond to the parts that were written by me and commented on. So, let's roll 'em ;) Since this was more of a reedit than a review, I should be brief (for me anyway ;). >>The older man is Wells, I assume. He wouldn't say "terrible greasy".<<< Given that I never heard Wells speak, I'll take your word for it Seriously, it's a typo, it should have been "terribly". >>>She should be equally surprised that Jeff knows what "etymology" means. He runs a telegraph. He's a half-breed. This is not the level of knowledge of vocabulary one would necessarily expect from him. (Lulu hasn't learned yet that he went all the way to college.)<<< Well, Lulu is a woman for that matter, and most women of that era were not thought of as having college educations either. Maybe Jeff is the one who should have been surprised ;) But this is one of the points where your review was confusing and often contradictory. It's as if you forgot and remember at certain points in the story that Jeff was raised and educated back east. One place you're surprised that Jeff has met a lot of beautiful women and you write "In Candelero Texas?" As if that's the only place he's ever lived. Later, however, wondering how Jeff became so good with a gun, you seemed surprised he would be given he was raised and educated back east. See what I mean? >>>This whole section needs reworking. First of all, I thought they were supposed to be quiet so as not to alert Lucas. As the very last sentence points out, they had no idea whether he was still outside. Now, let's backtrack. Second -- you're telegraphing your action, instead of just letting it happen, e.g., "Lulu was shocked at her reaction." Delete the first sentence. The action will, then, have greater<<< This will be more difficult to respond to because part of what you're commenting on, I did not write. The above sentence for example "Lulu was shocked at her reaction" was not mine, nor what preceded it. Though it does show a disadvantage to not being familiar with round robin writing. That type of sentence is often called a "setup" in round robin. The writer just before me was creating a situation that challenged me to come up with an action/reaction for Lulu. >>>Startled by his words, Lulu turned, grabbed Jeff by the front of his shirt, and rising on tiptoe, planted a hard kiss on his mouth before pushing him away. Lulu was shocked by her reaction, but Jeff was even more so. He fell against the wall. "Race ya to the stable," she whispered in challenge.<<< "..in challenge"? Is that near Candelero? Rewriting that scene you undid what I had established as a tribute to a scene in Ultra Woman. Why? Because I just wanted to>>Jeff straightened his hat as he watched Lulu race to the backdoor. 'Whoa!' he muttered, his eyes wide with excitement. Stepping out to the back porch, he looked around anxiously for Lucas and his men. They were no where in sight. Breathing a sigh of relief, << No, that makes Jeff sound like a wuss. I prefer him being a little less cautious when his mind is on Lulu. She threw caution to the wind, why make him so ... flaccid >>>If Jeff is supposed to be incognito, won't Lulu's presence give him away.<<< Did Lois chronically being with Superman give *him* away? Okay, sometimes: You buy the premise, you buy the joke ;) >>>Jeff figured Wells would be a good writer since he managed to make everything sound as if he'd actually been there. "Or maybe, I'm just feeling romantic," Jeff murmured, a little ruefully, thinking of Luisa. Luisa had promised to meet him, at the special place he had shown her, to discuss a plan for trapping Judd Lucas, and fortunately, Wells had agreed to depart when she arrived. Jeff sighed. Whatever plan Luisa had come up with, he was sure it was guaranteed to get her killed.<<< Again we get into awkwardness and a bit of redundancy with this rewritten passage. You have a sentence end and then the very next one begin with Luisa, I think "she" should have been substituted in the second sentence. Then this long drawn out part "...at the special place he had shown her, to discuss a plan for trapping Judd Lucas, and fortunately, Wells had agreed to depart when she arrived." I'm not sure why you have a comma before Wells in the sentence, but writing out "the special place he had shown her.." Just covers ground already covered earlier. I did like the dialog murmured though. >>>Would "reverend" be capitalized since it's basically being used like a proper name?<<<< I don't know. Would "captain" be capitalized in "The captain said..."? I'm not being facetious, I really don't know. Most often I see a word/title like that capitalized if "the" isn't there. As in "What's today's sermon, Reverend?" >>In any case, here's where things get a little confused with the story. What is the Reverend doing at the McCoys, and why is he playing cards (presumably for "the hand" of Lulu and for the ranch)? There's no set up to this at all. It would have been better (and more exciting storywise) to see how all this came about rather than hear about it second hand. This is partially an action story. It would be a good thing for the reader to experience that first-hand.<<<< I think you might have missed the subtle setup for this. In an earlier segment of the story when the reverend is introduced, a shady past is hinted at rather strongly, and Jeff seems to recognize him from a particular riverboat. That recognition makes the reverend nervous as if his less than spiritual past is catching up to him. Even in the Soulmates episode, he's hardly angelic when he takes a snort from a flask Having his past involve a riverboat, and since his past seems shady, then a gambler is likely what he'd been, and quite possibly a cardsharp. Mellie's exposition seemed sufficient to setup the situation. Though I've never been fond of page after page of exposition, and so I'd be the least likely to write that >>>Although the parachute idea was definitely a unique solution (and Supermanish to boot), it's an awfully risky plan. How do they know where the wind's going to blow him?<<< That's part of the point. I like to call that concept 'suspense' ;) Also it should be risky because that's just part of Lois and Clark's love for each other. "That's what you and I together are all about -- taking a chance." I also did a little tribute to a Red Buttons' scene from a movie where he parachutes into a village during W.W.II and his chute gets snagged on a church steeple. Anyway, that's the last of my writing in the story and so naturally the last of your comments on my writing For the most part, the lengthy reedit seemed a matter of taste (aside from typos) I really cringe when dialog is reedited because that's a character call on the part of a writer. Checking for grammar in that case is pointless unless the characters are all known for having perfect grammar when they speak. Lastly, having each writer's style and approach homogenized, sublimated and in some cases castigated by one person's taste creates blandness on an epic scale. No one patch in a quilt is more important than another, but if they're all the same size and color, call it a blanket and sell it at K-Mart Other than those nitpicks I pointed out, I enjoyed your review, though I should add that our concept of "soulmates" comes >from the series "two lovers destined to meet and fall in love over and over again" If you wanna make those 'lovers' brother and sister, warn me first Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 08:37:07 -0400 Reply-To: salymc@gateway.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sandy McDermin Organization: GWNET Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Melissa Day Hall wrote: > >General Points: > I'll start with a few of my own. I was tempted to edit your review of the > LR, but editting an edit of a story that has been finished and archived is > a little pointless. So I'll start with commentary on the actual review:<< But, Misha, I would have loved to have seen your comments. I don't believe I'm necessarily right on every point, so give and take would have been welcomed. Let me just make it clear. This type of exercise (that is, my posting my very specific comments) may be beside the point. Obviously, the story is already up in the archive and the authors have moved on, but it is a sample of the type of thing that was done among the S5 writers and it was fun!!! It may not have seemed that way at the time, but I think everyone -- authors and editors -- got a lot out of it, taught a lot to others, and -- most importantly -- learned a lot. I sure did. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I have been perusing other writing lists, and this is the type of thing they do as well. It's welcomed, and it's taken in the spirit of people enjoying others comments and learning from them -- learning both how to take criticism and how to defend their work. Where else are you going to get this? > >Positives: > > > >First of all, I want to concede that roundrobins -- if the "Lone Rider" > >is an example of them -- have gotten better, more polished and more > >enjoyable for the reader. But, I still maintain, that they are a > >better exercise for the writer, than for their audience. Writers get > >to collaborate, and they learn from each other. At least, I'm assuming > >that they do. I don't quite understand where the give-and-take is -- > >where the opportunity is to give advice and get it. I suppose it's > >during the planning session. > Well, starting off your positive comments with a concession doesn't bode > well. Further, I was disappointed that you made no mention of what you > actually liked about LR. If you didn't like anything, it's perhaps best to > say so, than to temporize (and no, not extemporize- I mean exactly what I > say), and end up "damning with faint praise".< I apologize for not being more positive. However, what I said in the paragraph you cite was an enormous leap for me! I admitted that the roundrobins had gotten more polished and enjoyable for the reader. These were two criticisms I had in the past, and Pam was trying to point out that I was wrong -- That they *had* gotten better, and I agreed. > Your comments on the nature of Round Robins puzzles me. If you've watched > one or participated in one, please stop me, but in my experience, the RR > isn't an exercise- it's an experience that isn't necessarily about the > writing. I'll admit, the immediate response to your section once you've > finished writing, while your palms are still damp, and your fingers are > shaking, is something that can't really be replicated, but that isn't why I > keep coming back. The social interaction with other writers is just as much > of a thrill.<< But, you see, that's my very point about rr's. Whether experience or exercise (however you want to term it), the roundrobin experience is a *writer's* experience -- if you like. It's not bad. It's just -- in my *humble* opinion -- not the best way to produce a story (as you say). I was well aware -- when I sat down and tried to rework a LR paragraph -- that I was doing it under no pressure, other than the pressure of knowing you all would be reading it. *And*, that is pressure. In any case, I was taking my time and thinking about the best way that I could get across what I wanted in that paragraph. I'm assuming that's *not* the circumstances you face when writing a rr. (I have never participated in one. I'm not opposed to it. I've just never been invited.) But, I also must admit, I wouldn't want whatever I wrote to appear in an archive "for posterity" without an opportunity to go back and rework it under no pressure. And, that's one thing that keeps me >from *inviting myself* to a rr. (I know how to gate crash.) Typically, the first thing I write is *never* the way it appears "in public". That would horrify me! I best stay away from participating in roundrobins then. Hmm? > >Negatives: > > > >As I said, the "Lone Rider" story is better than the roundrobins I read > >in the past, but I did detect changes in style and tone within the > >manuscript which can be mildly disappointing if not as jarring as they > >once were. > This is something that can't really be escaped in any round robin. Good > editing (Time to sing praises of Georgia!) can help enormously, but if the > change in style is something that annoys you enough to detract from the > enjoyment of the story, then you really shouldn't read RRs.< Bingo! > >I also noticed a continuity problem or two which, of course, > >can be just as problematic with a single author but is much more likely > >to develop within a group. Frankly, when it comes to writing, I really > >like to get a sense of an author's voice or take on a story. I think > >stories done by committee are fine but they're not the best, or we would > >have seen more masterpieces of collective writing other than the > >Bible. Writing is -- at the heart of it -- a very singular > >occupation. > Ah...the Bible. I'll assume you're speaking of the King James version (I > shouldn't, but that's the one I grew up with), which was assembled from the > various Latin and Greek versions of the early 1600's into something that > was meant to 'sound good'. And it does. But the disparate styles are even > more jarring than any round robin I've ever seen. (Try comparing > Deuteronomy and Song of Solomon ;)<< Well, I will bow to you and everyone else on this list regarding the Bible. I am very ignorant on its evolution, but I was trying to think of a classic work written by more two people and I really had trouble. > >The Soulmates Genre: > > > >As many know, I'm not a big fan of the soulmates genre, but if I were to > >write this type of story, I think I'd want to do a twist on the typical > >plot. > It may be a little late to suggest this, but if you go into a review with a > bias, perhaps it is best to acknowledge the bias at the beginning instead > of the end, so that the people who _don't_ realize it can be forewarned.< Sorry, but I have said how I feel about the soulmates concept a number of times since the soulmates episode appeared on television. I was editing myself here, because I thought that the readers wouldn't want me going off on that tangent once again. (Oh no!) However, there are bound to be people who haven't read these debates from the past. So, I apologize. > >(Perhaps, you've already done this.) For instance, I have a > >fanfic, which I don't consider a soulmates story, that has the Lois-like > >character in possession of the secret identity as opposed to Clark. > The Seahawk contains a twist similar to this. > > >This is certainly not a new idea. There was a wonderfully funny fanfic, > >which was posted to the Loiscla listerv when the show was on ABC, that > >was very entertaining. It switched the roles of Lois and Clark. (Does > >anyone remember what story that was? I'd certainly like to re-read it. > >I believe the author was a male.) > Superwoman, by Dirk Van Deun< Thank you. Very neat little story. Would love to pop it onto my writer's survey form, but I already sent it to Annie.... Can I edit my survey? > >Secondly, I wonder why you don't do a soulmates story where either Lois > >and/or Clark are unable to pursue the romance -- either by virtue of > >marriage or any other impediment. After all, they can't always be > >free. > Yes, but where's the fun in that? The idea of the round robins is to have > fun, and the idea behind the soulmates is to show the romance, and with a > serious impediment, all you have left is angst. While angst is certainly a > valid vehicle in fiction, I seriously doubt it has much of a place in > either the Soulmates Chronicles or RRs in general.< I disagree heartily -- *most* heartily. Besides, who says the story has to end on a down note. > >Thirdly, I know this has been discussed before, but, as I understand it, > >souls which travel together do not necessarily have the same > >relationship in every incarnation. It might be interesting to try > >something different. After all, doing the same soulmates story, barring > >the scenery, can become tiring. > Actually- that's what makes it so challenging and interesting for me- take > the same plot- two souls who will meet and fall in love- and change > everything else, from the physical surroundings to the cultural > assumptions, and see what happens next. Perhaps my fascination comes from > my deep interest in history and mythology, but that knowledge does nothing > to dim my enthusiasm.< Well, I don't know where my feelings come from, except that I like variety. I don't want to *know* for a fact that all will work out because than there's no suspense for me. > >Well, thanks for putting up with all these posts. I hope I haven't > >annoyed anyone. Please recognize that the very fact that I wrote three > >e-mails and put so much thought into this is because I know that the > >participants care so much. In light of that, I gave my comments as much > >thought and consideration as you would want and deserve -- as *I* would > >want and deserve if I were a participant. > The participants care deeply about their work, and while I can see how you > think your comments are made respectfully, I feel that an in-depth edit, > including typos, word choice and sentence structure, is much more > appropriate to private email to the participants, preferrably prior to the > publication of the fic. As a reader, I expect a review to include positive > and negative comments about the fic, and a recommendation (perhaps with > qualifications- like a reminder that the fic in question is a RR). > > Misha< As I said in my e-mail, I had no idea who wrote what in this story, so I really was just commenting on the story in general. Pam *did* include a list of the writers at the very end. I scanned it once and then tossed it aside -- not because I don't want to know who they are or don't want to appreciate an individual's contribution -- but because the point was the story and whether I could enjoy it in and of itself, divorced from the authors. And, I did. There were some very clever plot developments *and* I felt I was in a western town when I was reading it. The flavor of the time was captured well. Secondly, I assumed the goal with roundrobins is to eliminate the author's individual voice and coalesce the group into one. I would find this extremely difficult myself, but, in the case of roundrobins, it must be necessary. In any case, I don't agree that making comments in private e-mail is always preferable. How are we *all* going to learn that way? How are you going to get to rebut me? Why should the authors be the only one's that get a chance to debate this? (*Of course*, if someone thinks a story is horrible, then they shouldn't say anything at all.) But, I didn't think that -- *to the contrary* -- so I posted my comments. In any case, if you were publishing a story in the real world, you certainly would not be given such consideration. The criticisms would be right out in public. Not only that, if someone hated it, they'd say it -- in print. (Love when the Post's Jonathan Yardley does this, I admit.) Be that as it may, I couldn't "edit" this before it was published -- I wasn't given the opportunity. (If I had, I would have taken it.) But, as I said above, this fanfic group is also a writing group and editing is most definitely a part of the writing process. I see nothing -- absolutely nothing -- wrong with including comments about grammar, word usage, etc. (This is not an attack; it's a legitimate discussion which no one should be embarrassed about. I mean, I must get an e-mail every week telling me that the end of my story "Taken" is a complete disappointment. Boo Hoo! *And*, I wouldn't care if the e-mail writer put that on the list either.) Anyway, the only problem *I* had with including all my comments is that it would make the e-mails too lengthy. They're already too lengthy. Sandy -- I'm writing a book. I have the page numbers down.... I just have to fill in the rest. salymc@gateway.net http://www.erols.com/nightsky/Sandy/ -- Read the fanfic with the bad ending, right here. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:26:44 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.C. Malo" Subject: re Lone Rider Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit These fanfic reviews and ensuing discussions are interesting! I like hearing what others enjoyed or had trouble with in a story and whether they enjoyed the same ones that I did. The authors' responses are interesing because I often discover that I've missed a few things in their stories. Sandy's explanation of "Taken" made me reread [ and enjoy!] that story again. It's instructive, too, to find out something of the authors' motivation or perspective as they write. I expect it's a little bit more difficult for the author(s) of the fanfics being reviewed when a review is not completely postive, but a good review is a thoughtful critique and not a fan letter. It does mean that people are interested in what you have done, which is a huge compliment! The best reviews and follow-up posts have been learning experiences. They raise issues of character, plot, premise, and writing style as well as serving as an example of the type of changes that might be considered in the writing and editing process. I think they help to set standards. So, please Sandy, and everyone else , more reviews! Carol ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:28:54 -0400 Reply-To: salymc@gateway.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sandy McDermin Organization: GWNET Subject: Looking for a fanfic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Superwoman, by Dirk Van Deun< >>Thank you. Very neat little story. Would love to pop it onto my writer's survey form, but I already sent it to Annie.... Can I edit my survey?<< Hmm. It's not in the fanfic archive. Is there a webpage or does anyone have a copy? (I want to see if my memory of the story is correct.) Sandy salymc@gateway.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:15:49 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Lone Rider Review (Part 1) Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Sandy, Thanks for giving us a try :-) I know you didn't have the highest impression of round robin stories, but I'm glad to hear you were pleasant= ly surprised. I detect a few ruffled feathers from my fellow RR writers, an= d I think it's because we weren't expecting such a detailed critique. It's= well within the parameters of this list, I believe, and it can be useful,= but when it's unsolicited, well, like I said, I think feathers were ruffl= ed (how's that for a lovely unspecific passive voice ) (S5 was a very educational experience for me, and I learned a lot from your critique as well as from others', but we'd all signed up for that sort of treatment) I'll comment on your general comments and on your critique of the bits I wrote (as best I can remember which parts were mine, anyway ) >> He's seen a lot of beautiful women? In Candelero, Texas? << He's new in town, which is why Lulu hadn't met him before, but I suppose that wasn't clearly stated. >> Inappropriate for him but appropriate for her? << Inappropriate for both of them but he's the only one who worries about it= It's a characterization nuance. >> Was Clark's distrust of Lex this rapid? << No, but neither did Lois fall for Clark as quickly as Lulu did for Jeff. = The fun part of SoulMates stories is that we get to play with the variables. Plus, realistically, we only have so much time in which to write the story, so we don't get too baroque. >> I'm going to take a shot at guessing that this is the same writer who began the story. << I'm curious about that myself, but I haven't checked yet >> Well, well, well? A plethora of "wells"! I'm guilty of this myself. = << Um, yeah... guilty >> If Jeff is supposed to be incognito, won't Lulu's presence give him away. << Not if she stays hidden. Besides, they only recently met and the townsfolk won't automatically think of them as a couple yet. >> I know "temporize" is a word, but somehow "extemporize" seems more fittin'. << I think temporize is the one I wanted, but I'll look them both up and check... >> The discussion of Jeff's disguise up to this point in the story and beyond seems so lowkey.... Unremarkable, considering how important it is to this couple and their history. << Do you mean the discussion seemed so lowkey as to be unremarkable? I'm not sure what you meant here. >> *His* time with her.... (Or, are you trying to play off the concept o= f "time" by using the word "this"?) << Um... yeah, that's it The rest of your suggestions seem unexceptionable to me; if we were still editing this one, I'd look more critically at them. >> First of all, I want to concede that roundrobins -- if the "Lone Rider= " is an example of them -- have gotten better, more polished and more enjoyable for the reader. << Why thank you, my point has been proved. And I appreciate this statement coming from such a notable critic of the genre. >> But, I still maintain, that they are a better exercise for the writer, than for their audience. << Well you know what, you're quite right. We endeavor to end up with readable stories, but mostly, these sessions are meant to be fun, for the= writers and for the online onlookers. To take writers of disparate style= s and strengths and try to get them all going in the same direction is an interesting challenge, and there's a definite adreneline kick involved in= writing "live" with a time-limit. We do edit to some degree after the fact, but mostly to get the typos out and smooth over any plot holes. = Polished prose is not our main goal, and we don't generally edit each other's sections. (Georgia, our revered editor, will make gentle suggestions, but that's about the extent of it) >> Frankly, when it comes to writing, I really like to get a sense of an author's voice or take on a story. << In which case it seems obvious that round robins are not the best match for your particular reading style, which you already knew. Doesn't mean anything's wrong with either the writing or reading styles, they jus= t don't match up. >> As many know, I'm not a big fan of the soulmates genre, << Actually, I hadn't known that; when you asked about soulmates fanfic I assumed that you liked the concept. I guess that's the price I pay for not subscribing to LOISCLA >> I wonder why you don't do a soulmates story where either Lois and/or Clark are unable to pursue the romance -- << As others have said, we're constrained by the show, which pretty much established that they always fell in love, and always got together (= of course, Lois always died horribly after consumating the relationship, but= now that the curse has been prevented, we feel free to skip that development ) I did have an idea for a tale wherein our L&C were quantum leaping randomly (H.G. was fiddling with his device and didn't realize at first that L&C were actually being tossed around thru time - or that part may have been a collective idea, I can't recall) and ended up as a 70-year ol= d Clark and 20-year old Lois. They run around trying to get these two together and nearly wreck everything before realizing that they're dealin= g with *two* soulmates pairs in the same area - a 70-yr-old pair and a 20-y= r old pair. The 70-somethings had, in the original history, died early due= to the curse, leaving the way free for the 20-somethings to be born. But= when the curse was lifted, the first set lived to a ripe old age, overlapping their younger counterparts. The idea was deemed too complicated, tho and besides I could never get the physics of reincarnation to work out right... Basically, however, we have dealt with different permutations of the idea= , but as we're all suckers for romance & happy endings, the variations haven't gotten very extreme. We've only done 4 of them, after all. >> Please recognize that the very fact that I wrote three e-mails and put so much thought into this is because I know that the participants care so much. In light of that, I gave my comments as much thought and consideration as you would want and deserve -- as *I* would want and deserve if I were a participant. << I appreciate your good intentions, Sandy :-) PJ !^NavFont02F13AF00E9MGHHI91MI93HIC2MIC4HJ]MJ_HJ40MJ42HJ9DMJ9FHJC0MJC2HK8F= MK 91H KD9MKDBHLTMLVHL47ML49HL5CML5EHL9BML9DHMLMMNHM4AMM4CHM8BMM8DHNfMNhHN73= MN 75HNCAM NCCHO49MO4BHOD2MOD4HP3AMP3CHP8BMP8DHRC1MRC3HS]MS_HSF3MSF5HThMTjHT= B1 MTB3HUTMUVH Y89MY8BHZ86MZ88HZB132D6 E-mail from: Pam Jernigan jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC ~~~~~ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html Find all the IRC roundrobin fanfic -- Featuring recommended fanfics ~~~~~ "That would be me. Superman's girlfriend, Clark Kent's wife, Kal-El's concubine. Former girlscout, present reporter, future mental patient. Time traveller, dimension hopper, soul migrator..." Lois reflects on her life, in _Always Something There to Remind Me_ by Zoomway Distribution: Ficlist INTERNET:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:40:04 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward u Subject: Re: Looking for a fanfic Comments: To: Sandy McDermin In-Reply-To: <35DEC796.C0043CDB@gateway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Sandy, and others! > Hmm. It's not in the fanfic archive. Is there a webpage or does anyone > have a copy? (I want to see if my memory of the story is correct.) I believe you can find this story at Debby's site (along with several other wonderful and entertaining stories)! Here's the address (hope you don't mind, Debby, I know this one by heart): ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/dstark/Stories and it can be found in the folder "Stories by Others". Hope that helps! Sincerely, Karen :) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 19:03:23 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lansbury 1 Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sandy, As a member of the writing team of the "Lone Rider". I feel the unsolicited editing was unnecessary and cruel and went far beyond reviewing the story. You where taking advantage of a captured audience to show your disdain and disapproval of our writing process by rewriting some of the parts to suit yourself. Also, I found nothing useful or helpful in what you said about our finished product. I will not go over and/or explain to you, one who openly dislikes round robin fanfics, the sections of mine 'you' did not like. Finally, it is my opinion a writer writes for his or herself. Especially, since we are all unpaid and do it for entertainment. The bonus to it all... is in hopes someone out there may find enjoyment in what we had done and rejoice with us in our accomplishments. Annie Lansbury ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:39:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Maggie Subject: RoundRobins MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone :) I have found the discussion on the The Lone Rider very interesting. I read that story recently and found it entertaining and fun. I love to read what you all write about the more technical aspects of writing and the whole writing process. Usually, I am more interested in a story's Warm and Fuzzy Quotient than in detecting changes in writing style and things of that nature. If a story makes me smile, or touches my heart, or reflects back to me my own humanity, I am a happy camper! :) However, all the comments you make help to make me a more discriminating reader. My WFQ still comes first , but I find it truly delicious to know more and more rules that I can blatantly ignore ;-). I do love a good run-on sentence . Anyway, I found reading the Lone Rider that I enjoyed it as a whole story. For me, it was one complete experience. As I was reading, I just saw the changes in who was writing as a new chapter or new scene, but it was all one story. And a truly yummy one at that! Last weekend I had the pleasure of observing the Round Robin writers Live. I have to say, I honestly didn't expect that I would have soooo much fun. I was impressed by all of the authors' ability and creativity and couldn't quite believe the story was being created as I watched. I believe the story was truly well-written and people who read it will enjoy it thoroughly. However, I do not believe the whole concept of a RoundRobin story is meant to produce a literary work of Shakesperian proportions. To me, the idea is for the writers involved to meet a challenge and for both the writers and observers to just enjoy the experience. The writers are given certain parameters and a puzzle to solve, then it's like a relay, where the baton is handed from person to person and each author runs as fast and as well as they know how. The fun part for me is I get to cheer them on as they run. :) Furthermore, I think that participating in Round Robins is a very good experience for the writers. Surely they will have more confidence [after having written before such adoring fans :)] to take into other projects and write even more lovely stories. The RoundRobin format also gives us all the opportunity to get to know each other better, chat for hours about our favorite topics [the, uh, Trail To Paradise comes to mind ;-)], and in the end, not only have you spent a delightful afternoon with some pretty cool FoLCs, you have a new story for posterity. Maggie maggie13@bellsouth.net (aka supermag1 on IRC) Lois (rolls her head and smiles) "What am I going to do with you?" Clark (smugly) "You're going to love me for the rest of my life." Pam Jernigan "Crazy For You" Hmmm, "You bet your sweet chumpy I am" ;-) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:03:51 -0400 Reply-To: salymc@gateway.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sandy McDermin Organization: GWNET Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lansbury 1 wrote: > > Sandy, > > As a member of the writing team of the "Lone Rider". I feel the unsolicited > editing was unnecessary and cruel and went far beyond reviewing the story. > You where taking advantage of a captured audience to show your disdain and > disapproval of our writing process by rewriting some of the parts to suit > yourself. > > Also, I found nothing useful or helpful in what you said about our finished > product. > I will not go over and/or explain to you, one who openly dislikes round robin > fanfics, the sections of mine 'you' did not like. > > Finally, it is my opinion a writer writes for his or herself. Especially, > since we are all unpaid and do it for entertainment. The bonus to it all... > is in hopes someone out there may find enjoyment in what we had done and > rejoice with us in our accomplishments. > > Annie Lansbury<< Is this how you all feel? If you do, then I will be more than willing to withdraw my membership from this list. I also withdraw my answers to Annie's writers' survey which I'm sure she would not want to host at this point, in any case. If you do not feel the way she does, please post your messages publicly. I appreciate private e-mails of support but frankly it's a little tiring getting private encouragement while receiving public condemnation. Sorry for the imposition, and sorry for the harsh response but I just got back from a very pleasant dinner with friends, good food, and alcohol. I probably won't even remember what I said here. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:16:25 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: Lone Rider review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit /me calls a time out! Sandy, if you are not prepared to deal with feelings that you may have hurt, then why bother to post your "Reviews" Someone once mentioned that a "Break" is needed by the entire fanfic list. I really have to agree with this.. Sooner or later everyone is going to be offened then there wont be a list ;) This threatening to quit from people only goes so far... Sorry but that is how *I* feel.. but of course, no one needed to ask.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:32:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (1 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all! This is a story that I wrote a little over a year ago. However, I recently dug it out again and was disgusted with what I read. So I decided to do some major overhauling and here is the updated version. If you have already read my story, "Another Family Hour," then this one will likely seem familiar to you. However, the only place this story has ever appeared is in the Fanfic Archive so you may not have seen it. Hope you enjoy it! As always, contructive comments and criticisms are very welcome! FOREWORD: In the world of science fiction, one often finds it impossible to follow any laws of reason and logic. So, it's likely that there are many logical errors in this story, but I did my best to explain them away. This story is dedicated to Melanie Urbshott, my Lois & Clark buddy. Whenever I needed to vent my frustration (or elation) about an episode (or lack thereof), I could count on her to listen. Thanks, Mel! You're the best! PREVIOUSLY ON LOIS & CLARK: Lois pulled back the covers and snuggled into bed next to Clark. Resting her head on Clark's welcome shoulder, she absently reached for the warm skin covering her husband's ample pectorals and began to rub gently. "Well. . . my parents are back to normal. . . clueless that their son-in-law moonlights in tights." "It seems knowing that I'm Superman brought them nothing but unpleasantness, so now that memory is gone." "I don't think Mom remembers being mad at Dad either." "Apparently not, because I caught them kissing on the terrace." The couple giggled and snuggled closer. However, Lois' smile began to fade as her mind wandered to darker issues. "Clark, I'm sorry." Clark tilted his head to gaze at Lois in inquiry. "For what?" "I'm sorry that Daddy can't find anything wrong with Star Labs' data. He doesn't think we'll be able to have kids." As Clark began to speak, Lois shifted to face him fully. "Honey, I have not, for one second, doubted in us. We live the impossible." Clark nudged a stray lock of hair from Lois' eyes and began stroking her cheek. "A child is something brought about by love, isn't it?" Lois searched his eyes and nodded. "Well then that, above all else, has got to be possible for us." Lois smiled at her loving husband. Suddenly needing the feel of her husband's arms encircling her, the feel of his bare skin against hers, she began to pull her body onto his, only to see Clark's heated gaze falter and change into 'the look'. "What? What are you hearing?" "I'm not sure." "Well, what does it sound like?" "I can't actually believe what it sounds like." Downstairs, Lois followed Clark into the den where they were both rendered speechless at sight before them. In Clark's bassinet, a baby was tucked under a royal blue blanket embroidered with the unmistakable red and yellow emblem of the House of El. They approached the bassinet where Clark spotted and reached for a piece of paper that rested next to the child. Lois brought her hand to her heart as Clark unfolded the paper and read. "Lois and Clark, this child belongs to you." Lois let out a gasp at the paper's message and turned to peer at the bassinet's precious cargo. Lois was awed by the baby's tiny features and dumbfounded by the vulnerability of such a helpless creature. How could anyone abandon a child like this? Unconsciously, Lois pulled back the blanket and lifted the baby into her arms. If this child's parents weren't going to love it like they should, then she would. "Son? Everything all right" "Everyone okay?" "We saw the lights." "Lois?" The concerned inquiries of Lois's and Clark's parents interrupted the new parents' reverie. Clark left the den to meet their parents who were descending the stairs into the living room. "Ah. . . ah. . . yeah, yeah, everyone. Everything's is absolutely fine. Um. . . Mom and Dad. . . and ah. . . .Mom and Dad, we have something to tell you. Lois emerged from the den cradling the young baby bundled in a receiving blanket. continued in part 2 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:32:22 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (2 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" continued from part 1 * * * And now for. . . TOMORROW'S PAST Starring: Clark Kent/Superman Dean Cain Lois Lane Teri Hatcher Martha Kent K Callan Jonathan Kent Eddie Jones Mitchell Kent Tom Cruise Melanie Kent Nicole Kidman Ellen Lane Beverly Garland Sam Lane Harve Presnell Joseph 'Joey' Kent Ryan Henderson (my cute, little nephew) H. G. Wells Terry Kiser Tempus Lane Davies Jake Richard Moll Benny Danny Devito Nick Robert De Niro Carl Nicolas Cage By: Karen Ward Clark turned to Lois with raised eyebrows, drew in his breath and continued speaking. "We found this little guy in the study just now. I'm not sure where he came from. . . but I don't think we should be telling anyone about him. . . or her. . . " "Him." Lois stated matter of factly. "Okay, him," Clark continued. "Anyway, I just have this feeling that we should keep this to ourselves. . . for now." Protests rang through the group of parents while Lois and Clark exchanged knowing glances and continued to coo at the baby cuddled in Lois' arms. Finally Jonathan stepped forward, gaining everyone's attention. "Now wait a minute, Son. You don't know whose baby this is. I think it'd be best if you turned the baby over to the proper authorities. His parents are probably worried sick." "Actually, Dad," Clark countered while looking his father directly in the eye. "Sometimes, under certain circumstances, turning the child over to the authorities is not necessarily the best idea. I think, if you were in my position, you might do the same thing." Clark continued to eye his dad, trying to convey an unspoken message. "Clark, Honey," Martha piped. "I think you should listen to your father. He's got a point." Martha stepped closer to tickle the baby. "Somebody's probably missing this cute little guy." "Well," Lois interjected, "it's late. It'd be easier to contact the authorities in the morning so we might as well go back to bed and try to get some sleep. Clark and I'll keep the baby in our room to keep an eye on him. Mom, Dad, you guys have had a big day. You should get some rest." Sam and Ellen looked at Lois' pleading expression and began to protest. "Lois, there's a baby in your den and you expect your father and I to go back to bed." "Mom, please. It's just. . . " "I'm sorry, Princess, but I have to agree with you mother on this." Clark, noticing Lois struggle to get her parents from the room, attempted to come to the rescue. "I know this seems strange--having a baby show up in our house late at night, but there's no reason that you should lose any sleep over it. I assure you that Lois and I can handle the child for the night. And then, first thing in the morning, we'll figure out what to do about it. Until then, I think it'd be best if we didn't lose any sleep over this so that we can be more alert tomorrow when we're. . . working this thing out." "If you're sure. . . " "Yes, Daddy, we're sure." Lois was feeling exasperated by now. Ellen was towed reluctantly upstairs by Sam, mumbling "I should know by now not to be surprised when these rediculous things happen to Lois and Clark. . . " Clark's parents remained behind, sensing that something else was brewing. As soon as her parents were out of earshot, Lois began to explain. "Ah. . . Martha, Jonathan. There's something else you should know." "Um, Honey," Clark interrupted. "Why don't we show them?" Clark slid the door to the den open and gestured for his parents to enter. Inside the den he led them over to the bassinet. "We found him in this." Clark indicated a blanket emblazoned with the Superman shield which remained in the bassinet. Lois gently lowered the sleeping infant to his resting place and picked up a piece of paper from the hood of the cradle. "We also found this," Lois said, handing the note to Martha. Martha opened the note while shooting a quizzical look at her daughter-in-law. Tentatively, she turned her attention to the message and began to read. Her eyes widened as she reviewed the letter. Promptly, she shoved the letter at Jonathan. "Look at this!" Jonathan retrieved the letter and began to read aloud. "'Lois and Clark, this child belongs to you.' What do you suppose that means? Who would do this? I mean, who else knows about. . . you know. . . " Jonathan hesitated. "That I'm Superman and that Lois and I can't have children. Dad, no one else knows. I don't know who could have done this." Clark smiled at the sleeping child and added, "I don't know who would *want* to do this." Martha approached the bassinet and reached down to touch the blanket. She traced her fingers around the 'S' and looked up at her son. "Obviously, whoever it is, they know something they shouldn't." "I know." Lois began to pace while wringing her hands. "Which is why we have to get to the bottom of this. We've got to find this person. Someone with this knowledge could put a lot of people in danger. Namely, us. And I'm not too comfortable with that." Clark rested his hand on his wife's back in an effort to contain her pacing. "You're right, Lois. And we will. But I think you were right before when you said that the best thing we can do right now is get some rest." "You're right, son. Now are you sure you'll be all right with the baby in your room. You know your mother and I could--" "No, Dad. It's okay. We'll just--" Clark raised his head as his superhearing tuned into the sound of gunshots. "Uh. . . " The other occupants of the room immediately recognized 'the look'. "What is it, Son? What do you hear?" "It sounds like a shootout down at Clinton and Main. I'd better check it out." Clark began backing towards the window. "You guys just go to bed. I'll be back as soon as I can." Clark's departure was accompanied by a blur of red and blue and a familiar sonic boom. Lois gazed at the open window and sighed. "Look, dear," Martha said, catching Lois' attention. "If you like, Jonathan and I can go out and get some baby supplies. We'll need some diapers, baby wipes, some pablum. . . oh! And we can't forget toys! He'll need some toys to play with. . . " "Oh Martha, could you? I don't really have much experience with babies and I don't know what he needs, or what he likes, or how to feed him. . . I don't even know how to change him!" "Don't worry, Lois. Jonathan and I can help you. Lord knows Clark gave us loads of practice when he was a baby! You just stay here and watch him while Jonathan and I go and round up some supplies. There must be an all night pharmacy around here somewhere. . . " "Yeah, down the street. Are you sure you don't mind, Martha? I could wait for Clark and. . . " "No, no, dear! That's all right" Martha grabbed her husband's arm and began pulling him to the front door. "Jonathan and I will be just fine." "Okay, then. . . if you're sure." "We'll see you in a little bit, Honey." Martha and Jonathan, amused by his wife's enthusiasm, disappeared out the door. Lois picked up the bassinet and began to head toward the stairs. It'd be much more peaceful for the baby in her and Clark's room. But before she reached the bottom stair, she could hear the pitter patter of footsteps coming down the upstairs hallway, and soon her parents appeared in the stairwell. "Lois, what's--" "Shh!" Lois broke off her Dad's inquiry and used her eyes to gesture to the bassinet in her arms before continuing in a hushed voice. "Mom, Dad, I thought you guys had gone to bed." "We had," Ellen spoke in a harsh whisper, "but we thought you guys were going to bed too! What's going on? Where'd everyone go?" "Oh. . . just out to get some baby supplies. After you two went upstairs we realized we didn't have any so they just went. . . " "They went baby shopping?! Without us?! I don't believe this! Sam," Mrs. Lane turned to her husband and began nudging him to the door, "we're going too. Where were they headed, Lois?" "Uh. . . " bing too tired to argue with her parents, Lois decided to coopereate. "Just down the street, to an all-night pharmacy." "All right, your father and I will be right back." Lois' mouth threatened to form a grin as she watched her father's face form a tell-tale "We will?" expression as he was ushered out the door. After her parents' departure, the baby continued to sleep soundly, however, Lois had a feeling she wouldn't be getting any rest tonight. As if reading her mind, the sound of the doorbell interrupted her thought. As she scanned the room, searching for a spot to set the bassinet, the visitor began knocking frantically. "I'm coming, I'm coming!" Lois hollered back. The baby stirred and began to cry in response to the sudden loud noise. "Oh! Shh. It's okay," she crooned, lifting the child from the basket. The impatient knocking persisted. Lois stalked toward the door with the squawking child in one arm and yanked the door open with the other. "Do you know what time it. . . " But Lois was lost for words. H.G. Wells stood on her doormat, tipping his hat in salutation. continued in part 3 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:32:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (3 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" continued from part 2 * * * A dark-haired man dressed in a silver jump suit bolted across Clinton Street and dove behind a cluster of trash cans. Sparks marked the places where pursuing bullets ricocheted off trash cans. Pressing his athletic figure close to the ground, he began replacing the clip in his semi-automatic. His attempt was aborted when a red boot thumped on his gun, effectively smashing it into pieces. The young man on the ground stared at the foot for a second before slowly raising his head to see a figure dressed in blue tights with a red cape billowing in the wind. He instantly recognized the stylized 'S' brandishing his captor's chest and began yelling. "Superman, get down! You'll be shot!" As if on cue, a bullet grazed Superman's left shoulder and sent him sprawling to the pavement behind the stranger's temporary cover. Clark touched the blood now oozing from his shoulder and blinked at the wildly dressed stranger. "Wha..I'm bleeding!" "I tried to warn you," the man said, reaching for his mangled gun. "Those are Kryptonite bullets." Gunfire continued to pierce the relative tranquillity of night in Metropolis. "Kryptonite! What are they doing with Kryptonite bullets?!" "They're Anti-Kent Revolutionaries." The man stated, as if it should mean something to Clark. Hopelessly he tossed away his smashed weapon, groaned, and scowled at Superman. To keep under the cover of the trash cans, Clark, favouring his left shoulder, supported himself with his right forearm and crawled toward the stranger to continue questioning him. "What do you mean Anti. . . whoa! Did you say Anti-Kent?!" Clark regarded the man in disbelief, momentarily forgetting his wound. "Yeah. They're radicals bent on destroying the Lane-Kent bloodline. They think Superman committed the ultimate crime against nature by contaminating the human race." The man peered around the cans to check the enemy's position. He immediately ducked back as bullets whizzed through the spot his head had just occupied. Clark was bewildered, but the increasing sound of gunfire forced all but one of his questions to the back of his mind. "What can I do to help?" "Try not to get killed while we concentrate on getting out of here. If you hadn't destroyed my gun. . . " "Look, I'm sorry. I didn't realize--" "It's okay. I know you were just trying to help." Unsure of what to do, and perhaps overwhelmed by the stranger's confessions, Clark watched the stranger fumble with his utility belt until he produced a small black grenade, pulled the pin and tossed the grenade at the opposition. Tear gas filled the street, briefly slowing the advance of the revolutionaries. "Come on, Superman." The stranger pulled Clark to his feet and the two fled into an alley which led them over a block to another empty street. The pair stopped momentarily to choose a direction as the sound of wild gunfire roared after them in the alley behind, getting louder by the second. A silver Jeep Grand Cherokee screeched to a halt in front of Clark and the stranger. Lois stretched across and opened the passenger-side door. "Come on! Get in! Hurry up!" Clark scrambled into the passenger side while the stranger loaded into the back seat. The tires squealed as Lois raced from the curb, leaving black marks on the pavement. * * * Several men, sporting black turtlenecks and camouflage army pants, jolted to a stop as they emerged from the alley leading from Clinton Street. Their black shirts revealed the royal blue outline of the patented 'S' with the international 'no' symbol slashed in blood-red overtop. The leader, tall and lanky with rich brown hair, bore an eerie smile as he emerged from the group. A short, stout man, with a disappearing hairline, approached his superior from the right. "Hey, boss, should we snatch a car and follow them." Tempus continued to stare down the street after the disappearing Jeep Grand Cherokee. "Patience, Benny, they'll come to us. They'll most definitely come to us." Tempus turned to two of his henchmen and began to address them in a calm, confident manner. "Well, men, it appears the Kents have temporarily escaped their impending doom. Not for long, though." "What do we do now, boss?" a hefty, bald man asked from the back of the group. "Now, Jake, we retreat to our fortress to twiddle our thumbs and play ping-pong until they come. And they will come." Jake scurried to the front, next to his commander. "You mean it, boss? We get to play ping-pong? I love ping-pong!" Tempus shook his head and rolled his eyes before answering. "No, Jake, you imbecile, I was speaking metaphorically." "Well, how's I supposed to know you's speaking metamorphically." "Argh." Tempus dug into his pocket for a small communication device and pressed a button to page his other troops while mumbling arrogantly to himself. "One must wonder why the universe's most ingenious criminal would surround himself with such feeble-minded Neanderthals" "Yeah, boss?" a voice buzzed from the speaker of Tempus' miniature walkie-talkie. "Nick, we need transportation over on. . . " Tempus squinted at the nearest street sign. ". . . Bush and Main." continued in part 4 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (4 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" continued from part 3 * * * In the Jeep, Clark and the stranger, still in shock from the encounter, struggled to catch their breath. Lois finally broke the silence when she noticed the crimson stain on her husband's uniform. "Oh my god! Clark, you're bleeding! Are you okay?" "I'm okay. The bullet just grazed me. It's just a scratch." Suddenly realizing Lois had addressed him by his human name in front of the stranger, Clark's previously suppressed questions bubbled to the surface. He twisted in his seat to interrogate the stranger. "Who are you? And who were those. . . people chasing us? What are you doing here? What do you mean the 'Lane-Kent' bloodline?. . . " "Whoa! Slow down, Superman. My name is Jeff. I'm from the future, the year 2024." Upon hearing this, Clark sank back into seat and moaned. "Oh no. Not more time-travellers. This is getting ridiculous." "Ah. . . Clark. I think you should let him finish explaining." Lois jerked the wheel left and the Jeep lurched around another corner. Clark turned his attention back to Jeff. "Okay. . . Jeff. What brings you to 1997?" "Well, it all started back in 2019. . . er ahead in 2019. Anyway, after more Superheroes started to pop up around Metropolis people started to get suspicious, wondering where they were all coming from." "More Superheroes? Were they from New Krypton?" "That's what everyone thought at first, until Tempus came along. He disguised himself at first, knowing you and Lois would recognize him if he didn't. He began leaking information to the tabloids about your secret identity and how all the new Superheroes weren't from New Krypton, but were actually your children." "My children?! Wait a minute! But I thought Lois and I. . . well. . . we can't. . . " "I know, I know. I've heard the stories, but Dr. Klein was wrong." He shrugged. "You can. Anyway, Tempus started this radical group who called themselves the Anti-Kent Revolutionaries. He convinced thousands of people that Superman was destroying the human bloodline and that he should be stopped. However, very few actually decided to follow him when they learned that he wanted them to help destroy Superman and his family. Some, mostly criminals you'd put away, were scared to go up against a group of super-powered people, while others felt that execution was a little harsh seeing as neither Superman, nor any of his Super off-spring, had ever done any actual physical harm to anyone. After this conflict, the number of his followers shrank down to just a handful, including Tempus." "Whoa! Wait a minute! You mean to say Lois and I *can* have children? Wow! But, that still doesn't explain what you're doing here, in the 20th century." Jeff drew in his breath and ran his hands through his hair, reminiscent of one of Clark's compulsive habits. Lois spared a hand from the steering wheel to clasp her husband's hand as he awaited Jeff's explanation. Finally, Jeff returned his attention to Clark and began to recount his story. "Tempus and his gang have already. . . eliminated the others. I'm the last one, at least as far as Tempus is concerned." "Did you say that *you're* the last one!" Clark cut him off before Jeff could continue explaining. "Are you saying that you're my. . . that we're. . . related?" "Yes, I was getting to that. Anyway, my wife and I recently had a child, but Tempus doesn't know about him. That's why we brought him here, to preserve Superman's. . . er. . . your bloodline. You see, H. G. Wells came to me and my family last week. At first I thought he was some sort of nutcase but then I remembered all those stories you and M--. . . er Lois told us about him and Tempus. He told me that while he was visiting the future he found that the utopia established by your bloodline was gone. Tempus had become their ruler and had turned the utopia into the violent distopia he'd always wanted. Mr. Wells figured that he must have somehow destroyed Superman and his descendants somewhere along the line. That's when he came to us. My wife and I planned to just drop the baby off and return to pick him up once we'd defeated Tempus in 2024. Unfortunately. . . somehow. . . he tracked us here." Clark sat still in shocked silence as he tried to absorb this fantastic story. Lois squeezed his hand in comfort, also attempting to stimulate some sort of response from her trauma-stricken husband. "Honey," Lois prepared to explain while manoeuvring the jeep through another red light, narrowly swerving out of the path of a taxi as it crossed the intersection, "they brought us the baby in case they weren't able to. . . defeat Tempus." Clark diverted his shocked gaze to the driver's seat. "How. . . how do *you* know all this?" "H. G. Wells came to our house shortly after you left tonight. He filled me in on the important details. Seeing as you had no way of knowing about the Kryptonite bullets, I figured you'd need my help." Clark's next coherent words were about an octave too high. "Oh. Okay, Honey." He turned in his seat to once again face Jeff. "So how, exactly, are we related? Are you my. . . well considering the year you mentioned, you must be my. . . " "Son. Yes." "You said that Tempus 'eliminated the others'. Does that mean that. . . he. . . he killed our other children?" Jeff leaned forward and gently placed his hand on Clark's forearm. "I'm afraid so." Clark growled in frustration and dropped back into his seat. "Ow!" He groaned again as the sudden impact caused a sharp pain to resonate through his shoulder. "Tempus!" Lois spat the word as if it had no business being in her mouth. Clark tilted his head back, closed his eyes and began rubbing his temples. "It figures he'd be behind such a devious plot. Why can't he just leave us alone? What did we ever do to him?" Lois swerved to avoid an intoxicated pedestrian, prompting her to wave her fist at the drunkard. "Hey! Watch where you're going!" Lois turned her attention back to Clark's comment while steering the Jeep onto Hyperion Avenue. "You mean other than put him away three times? Which, by the way, is going to be four by the time we're done with him." As Lois screeched the Jeep to a halt at the curb in front of their brownstone, a revelation provoked her eyebrows to crinkle in worry. "Oh no, Clark! My parents! What are we going to tell them? Oh Clark, I'm sorry. I knew it was a bad idea to invite them to stay over tonight. I know they were still shaken about the whole ordeal with Fat Head and everything, but I should know by now to listen my gut instinct about these things. After all, I'm a seasoned investigative reporter. I, above all people, should. . . " "Lois. . . " ". . . know when to go with my gut and when not to. I've been doing it for years. I just didn't expect to have to deal with something of this magnitude tonight. If I had known I would have. . . " "Lois." "Uh. . . sorry. I didn't mean to do the manic thing again, but I can't help it. You know that's how I cope with things. . . it's not necessarily the best way, I know, but it wasn't. . . " "Lois, rel-. . . " "Don't tell me to relax, Clark! This is no time for relaxing! How are your superpowers holding up, by the way? You look like you're still bleeding." Lois leaned across to examine her husband's wound. "Oh, you *are* still bleeding. That's not good. That must mean you're powers aren't working either. . . all those Kryptonite bullets flying around I'm not surprised. Oh Clark, I'm so glad you're alive. When Mr. Wells mentioned they had Kryptonite I was so worried. I thought for sure that they were going to. . . that you'd. . . " With his good arm, Clark grabbed the back of his wife's neck and thrust his lips onto hers. Faster than a speeding bullet, the kiss turned >from awkward to passionate. After a few moments of indulging himself, Clark drew back and turned to Jeff, whose expression indicated that he was mildly amused by the incident. "It's the only way I can get her to stop when she goes off on one of her tangents." "I know. You and Mom always use that excuse." Lois returned to the topic of her parents once she recovered from her brief state of shock. "Clark, I'm serious about my parents. How are we going to explain this to them? Oh god! They probably already found Mr. Wells. This isn't good. My Mom is the worst at keeping secrets. They just got over learning it once already. I don't know if they can handle it again. What are we going to do?" Clark and Jeff exchanged knowing glances and shook their heads. "Lois, Honey. Don't worry about it. We already know we can trust your father. As for your mother. . . well. . . I'm sure that if she realized the importance of keeping this secret she'd be able to handle it. There was a time when I didn't think you'd be able to handle it, but, obviously, I was wrong about that." "I don't know, Clark. Are you sure?" "Yeah. Besides, they could be sound asleep anyway. We may still have time to come up with an excuse." "And for you to change out of your Superman garb," Jeff added, gesturing to Clark's apparel. "Actually, Clark, they're definitely not sleeping." Lois cringed. "I know that for a fact." "Oh. . . " Lois suddenly straightened in her seat as something else occurred to her. "Wait a minute! Won't Tempus and his thugs know where to find us?" Clark's brow wrinkled as Jeff diverted his attention to his hands sitting in his lap. Jeff started to speak while keeping his attention focused on rubbing his palms together. "He won't follow us," he mumbled. Confusion passed between the occupants of the front seats. Jeff turned his attention back to Lois and Clark. "He won't come after us," Jeff continued in a stronger voice, "because he knows we'll come after him." This comment only added to Lois and Clark's confusion so he continued to explain. "He's got my wife, Melanie. He captured her just before we came here. He knows I'll do anything to get her back. That's why I felt we had bring our baby to you. In case, I couldn't . . . wasn't . . . successful in rescuing my wife. He thinks you'll probably help me." "Well, he's right," Lois announced. "But, first, we need a plan." continued in part 5 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:32:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (5 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" continued from part 4 * * * Lois stalked through the entrance to her townhouse, followed closely by Clark and Jeff. "Lois! Where have you been? Your father and I've been worried sick! Hey! Who's that man with you? Why's Superman here? And who's the kook in the den claiming to be some dead writer? And why are Clark's parents in there taking care of the baby with him as if he's some old friend of theirs? Why are you giving me that look? You're not dying, are you?" "Mom. . . " Smoke seemed to emanate from Ellen Lane's ears as her brain furiously tried to organize her thoughts. "Oh my god! Maybe I'm dead! Maybe that's why I'm in the same house with a dead writer! Oh no! We're not *all* dead, are we? We must be. Why else would we all be here with a dead writer? How did this happen? I don't remember dying. It must have been when I. . . " "Mom!! You're not dead. None of us are." "Well then what's going on?" "Yeah, Princess. What's this all about?" Dr. Lane added. Lois looked at Clark, silently seeking permission to give her parents a straight answer. Ellen watched the scenario expectantly and soon became impatient. "Lois, if you keep me in the dark any longer, I think my head will explode!" Clark turned to Jeff sympathetically. "Do you mind if we talk in private for a bit. I think it'd be easier that way." "Yeah, sure," Jeff replied. "Can I see Joey. . . my son?" "Oh, yeah. Go ahead." Clark pointed to the den. "I think he's in there." Clark let the corners of his mouth drift upward as he watched his future son disappear into the den. "Ah-hem." Ellen interrupted him from his daze. Clark looked back at Lois, seeking encouragement. Lois gently rubbed his back, careful not to disturb his shoulder, and prepared to disclose the life-altering news. "Mom, Dad, the reason Superman's here is because he lives here." "What?!" Sam and Ellen sputtered simultaneously. As usual, Ellen took control of the discussion while Sam's face wrinkled in confusion. "Do you mean to tell me that you and Clark have been letting Superman live with you all this time and you haven't even told me about it? No wonder you always get those exclusives with him!" "No, Mrs. Lane. That's not exactly it. . . or should I call you 'Mom'." "What?!" Sam choked while Ellen's eyebrows rocketed toward the roof. "What he means is. . . Superman. . . well. . . he's Clark. Or rather he's what Clark can do. Clark's who he is." Sam and Ellen fixed their confuzed gazes on Superman, who nodded his confirmation. * * * Lois' parents sat on the living room couch in rapt attention as Lois and Clark tried to explain Clark's secret, and the presence of the other strangers. The easy part was explaining Clark's alter-ego, of which the Lanes seemed surprisingly understanding. It was the horrible fate of their future kin that Lois and Clark had difficulty with, however, H. G. Wells graciously took over that story and finished the explanation. At the conclusion of the stunning tale, Sam was the first to break the tension-filled silence. Though he was shocked by all these revelations, especially those concerning his son-in-law and their time-travelling visitors, one thing was certain. This was his daughter's family and dammit, alien or not, he was going to help them the only way he knew how. By being a doctor. "Super-. . . er. . . I mean Clark, that wound on your shoulder's not looking too good. Maybe I should take a look at it." "Thanks, Dr. Lane. I'd really appreciate that." "Hey, you're my son-in-law. You can call me Dad. Or at the very least call me by my first name." Clark grinned and offered his hand to Sam. "Sure thing, *Dad*." Sam took Clark's hand and, heedful of his son-in-law's left shoulder, pulled him into a firm embrace. Witnessing the heart-warming scene, Lois and her mother felt urged to place an arm around each other and another around their husbands, making the hug a group effort. * * * The fish-scented aroma of Hob's Bay flowed through the shattered windows of a condemned warehouse down on Fifth and Truman. Melanie Kent sat in a corner with her legs crossed and her elbows resting on her knees. Dried blood disappeared from her temple into a thick collection of fiery red curls. Her face exuded an air of confidence and determination. Inside she was cowering. The thug named Carl, with long chestnut hair and a receding hairline, towered over her with his uzi tucked securely under his arm. Tempus paced the concrete floor with an arrogant grin glued to his face. Every so often he would stop and chuckle to himself, obviously pleased with his latest accomplishments. "Listen up, men," he began to address his four disciples, "do you realize that you are a part of the single most outstanding event in human history? The demise of Superman." His henchmen's gazes were unwavering as they listened to their leader's spiel. "Who would have thought that it would have taken five mere mortals to eradicate the most powerful and influential family of all time? Beings who are able to crush boulders with their bare hands have been, and will be crushed by me," Tempus announced clenching his fist. Tempus noticed that his followers' expressions suggested that they weren't satisfied by his latest commentary. "With your help, of course," he amended. "Men," Tempus continued, "when we're finished with that moronic alien and that hare-brained son of his, the future belongs to us!" "You'll never get away with it, Tempus! They'll stop you!" Melanie spat from the corner. "Why looky here, we've got ourselves a feisty one boys. If you think your musclehead of a husband and his overstuffed pair of tights of a father are going to stop me. . . well, you'd better think again." "You'd better lose some of that cockiness, Tempus. They're coming for me and when they do, they're gonna kick your skinny butt." "No, my dear. You'd better watch out. You'd better hope they don't come for you because when they do. . . well, let's just say that you'll get to see a lot of the *blood* from the Lane-Kent bloodline." * * * At two o'clock in the morning, Martha and Jonathan were making funny noises and faces at their great-grandchild, now fully awake from all the commotion. H. G. Wells appeared deep in thought while Jeff was busy presenting a plot for Tempus' demise. "We know Tempus has my wife and that as long as Clark and I are still alive, he won't harm her. That means we can take time to find his hideout and plan some sort of attack where we can get her back safely, hopefully without getting us killed." "Yes. . . quite. But how do we that without his harming poor Melanie? We'll have to sneak in somehow and. . . " Silence flooded the den as the door to the living room slid open. Lois and Ellen entered the den giggling at an inside joke but abruptly stopped upon seeing the expectant faces of their audience. "It's all right, guys," Lois encouraged, "we told them." "Everything?" Jeff inquired. "I hope so!" Ellen answered sarcastically, "What more could there be?!" Ellen's demeanour changed from jovial to reverent. "Wow! I can't believe it. You're my grandson," she said focusing on Jeff. Turning to the bassinet that held Joey, she added, "And this cute little guy is my great-grandson. I'm barely old enough to be a grandmother, let alone a great-grandmother." The group smiled at Ellen's attempt at humour. Martha was the one to notice the absence of Sam and her son. "Lois, dear, where are Clark and Sam?" "Your Dad's not giving him the old third degree about an alien marrying his daughter, I hope," Jonathan added with a wink and a chuckle. "Oh, no, Jonathan. He decided to get all doctor-like instead. He's patching Clark's wound." "Clark's wound?" Martha and Jonathan were equally surprised and worried to hear of her son's injury. "Oh, don't worry. It's nothing major. He was just grazed by one of the Kryptonite bullets. I'm sure he'll be fine." "I'm sure he will too," Sam announced as he breezed into the den. Flushed with excitement, he proceeded to explain the nature of Clark's wound and the amount of time he guessed it would take for him to recover, "Not very long, considering who he is." Sporting his glasses, a pair of black boxers, and a large amount of gauze on his left shoulder, Clark appeared in the doorway. Unnoticed at first, he watched the smiling faces of his family members, both future and present, as they talked amicably among themselves. They all seemed deliriously happy. Clark realized that for the first time since meeting him, even Jeff attempted to look cheerful. He bore a distracted smile while relaying to Clark's parents and H. G. Wells several humorous tales depicting the trials and tribulations of his recent venture into fatherhood. "Leave it to Mom and Dad to bring smiles to peoples' faces, even in the worst of times," Clark thought. Continuing to scan the room, Clark saw Lois' parents cuddled on the couch, enjoying the sight of their great-grandson, Joey, nestled in Lois' arms. The infant had fallen asleep again as Lois sat engrossed in Jeff's tales. The urge to protect overwhelmed Clark's senses as he broke into the joyful chatter of the room. "Ah-hem," he cleared his throat to attract the group's attention. Gathering his resolve, he proceeded to speak in a solemn voice. "We have to find Tempus." continued in part 6 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:33:07 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"Tomorrow's Past" (6 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" continued from part 5 * * * After hours of planning and debating in Lois and Clark's den, the only thing the group could agree upon was that they all needed rest. It was early morning before Lois' parents had decided it best for them to return to their homes, while Martha and Jonathan retreated to the guest room. H. G. Wells departed in his make-shift time machine, promising to return after everyone had rested up. Jeff lay restlessly on the living room couch with Joey sleeping peacefully in his bassinet on the coffee table. After seeing everyone to bed, Lois returned to the master bedroom to find Clark slouched on the bed with his head in his right hand. Lois took a seat to his left, draped her arm across his back and began to massage his good shoulder. "Clark, what's wrong? What's on your mind?" "Oh. . . it's just that Tempus has really gotten to me. I've never felt so much hate for one man, except maybe Lex. I feel like I could actually kill him. And I think that if I confronted him. . . I think I probably would." "If you ask me, you hardly need to feel guilty for that. The man killed you, and most of your family. . . or will do it in the future anyway. It's perfectly understandable that you'd like to return the favour. I'd like to do it myself. But I'll be generous and let you do it first if you like." Clark chuckled at his wife's morbid humour, but the smile soon vanished from his face and the pained expression returned. "There something else, isn't there, Clark?" Clark rose from the bed and began to pace the room. "Honey? What is it?" Clark stopped, looked at Lois, and sighed. "It's just that. . . I kind of feel like I'm responsible for what's happenned. . . like I should have been more careful before. You know, made sure that Tempus was taken care of. . . for good. . . so that he couldn't hurt anyone else. Then none of this would have happened." Lois walked over to Clark, took his hands, and looked meaningfully into his eyes. "Oh, Clark. You can't blame yourself for Tempus' evil. It's not your fault. Look, Honey, you did what you could before. You did what you thought was right. There is absolutely no way that you can be held responsible for this madman's actions." A smile twitched across Clark's face as he reached to touch his wife's cheek. "How did I ever get to marry a woman like you?" "You got really really really lucky. That's how." The couple chuckled and Clark hugged his wife to his chest. Lois pulled back a little as her mind zeroed in on something else. "Seeing as we now know that we are able to have children, you know what I think, Clark?" "What?" Lois drew a line down Clark's jaw line with her fingertip as her voice took on a seductive edge. "I think we should hurry up and bag these bad guys so we can get back to trying to start our own family." "That sounds like a wonderful idea," Clark whispered as he leaned in to place gentle kisses on his wife's neck, "Why don't we get back to trying right now?" "Mmm. . . sounds good to me. . ." * * * "I've got it!" Lois shouted as she awoke from her fitful slumber. Rays from the mid-morning sun streamed through the window of the master bedroom in Lois and Clark's brownstone. Lois shook her husband's chest in an effort to wake him. "Clark! Wake up! I've got an idea!" "Wha. . . " Clark stretched and began rubbing his fists in his eyes. The effort seemed to bring him closer to consciousness and he continued in a groggy voice, "What is it, Honey?" "Clark, I know how to defeat Tempus! We have to see H. G. Wells!" Lois was already out of bed and rushing about the room, grabbing clothes from here and there and throwing them on. She was shoving various pieces of survival gear in a knapsack when she noticed Clark watching her. She hurried over to the bed, clutched Clark's arm and began hauling her husband to his feet. "Come on, Clark. We've gotta do this now before Tempus gets another shot at us." Clark allowed himself to be dragged about by his wife, but not without questioning her. "Well, what's your idea, Honey?" "I'll tell you about it over breakfast. . . or lunch, I mean. . . when H.G. Wells gets here. Now hurry up and get ready. . . oh wait! How's that gash on your shoulder now?" Clark peeled back the bandage to reveal healthy skin. "What gash?" Clark replied innocently. Lois scooted over and inspected his shoulder. "Wow! You can never underestimate the healing power of love, huh?" Clark gave his wife a playful smirk but was cut off when he appeared ready to retort. "Well, what are you standing around for? We've got bad guys to catch!" * * * Rays from the late afternoon sun illuminated the dust roaming around the abandoned warehouse which was Tempus' hideout. In the middle of the room Nick, a middle-aged man of medium build, stared at five cards he held in his left hand. He brushed his right hand through his dark hair, revealing streaks of grey hidden under darker strands. His brow wrinkled before he slapped his cards face down on the decrepit picnic table and announced, "I fold!" Dollar signs flashed in Benny's eyes as he reached across the table to gather up his opponent's money. "That's too bad," he drawled sarcastically in his Yankee accent, "looks like I win." "Where are they?" Tempus complained, interrupting their card game. "They should have come by now." Tempus turned to Jake and Carl guarding Melanie in the corner. "All right, guys! They should have found our hideout by now. After all, there's two of them with x-ray vision. If they're not going to take the bait then I'm going to have to show them that I mean business. If those numskulls don't show up in the next five minutes I want you to take Mrs. Kent here and. . . aah!" Tempus' instructions came to an abrupt end as a searing pain rocketed though his temples. He dropped to his knees and clutched his head. Jake rushed to his side, took his arm and attempted to help him to his feet. "What's the matter, boss?" Tempus shook off Jake's arm and continued to moan in pain. As the pain began to wane, Tempus rose to his feat, tentatively removing his hands >from his face. He blinked furiously, trying to wash the fog from his head. A look of horror took over his expression when his focus returned. As realization hit him, he flopped back down to floor and began sobbing uncontrollably. concluded in part 7 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:33:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Fanfic--"'Tomorrow's Past" (7 of 7) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" * * * Lois's and Clark's parents were upstairs entertaining, or rather being entertained by, Joey. They had been there all afternoon since Lois and Clark refused to let them be involved with the plan. "If it fails," Clark had explained, "we need you to look after Joey. Then there's still a chance that our bloodline can be restored and Utopia won't be destroyed." The parents hadn't been let in on the plan for fear that they would do something foolish in an attempt to come to the rescue. "I'd never do anything foolish!" Ellen had protested. Now, at 4:13 p.m., a tapestry of bright lights began to fade as the sleigh-like time machine of Mr. Wells' invention came to rest in Lois and Clark's living room. Clark, Lois, Jeff, and H. G. Wells scrambled from machine to implement the final stage of their plan. Lois was beginning to instruct her cohorts on the next step when the doorbell interrupted her. "I wonder who that could be?" Lois called over her shoulder as she approached the door. Out of habit, and encouraged by Lois' words, Clark and Jeff both trained their vision on the door to get a preview of their caller. At the same time, Lois was on her tiptoes, peering through the peephole. "Tempus?!" the three exclaimed in unison. Unsure of what to expect, Lois opened the door tentatively while Clark and Jeff surrounded her in defense. Once the entrance was open, Melanie appeared from behind Tempus and rushed into her husband's embrace. Tempus fell to his knees and clasped his hands before his face. "I'm so sorry!" he pleaded, "I've done a horrible thing! How can you ever forgive me? I'll do anything you want! Just say the word." Tempus spotted H. G. Wells seated on the sofa next to the time machine and hustled over to his side. "Herb, I'm an awful person. You have to take me back to the 22nd century. . . back to jail where I belong!" "Fortunately for you, Tempus, that is quite possible." "What's going on? We heard the doorbell." Martha appeared in the stairwell holding Joey's bassinet, closely followed by Jonathan, Sam and Ellen. "Why, Mrs. Kent, I was just about to escort Mr. Tempus here back to the future." Looks of confusion bombarded the faces of Lois' and Clark's parents. Lois spoke, attempting to ease their bewilderment. "Don't worry, guys. We'll explain it just as soon as Tempus is gone. It's probably best if he doesn't know what happened to him." H. G. Wells turned to Jeff and Melanie, still lost in each other's arms. "Ah-hem. . . I'm terribly sorry to disturb your. . . ah. . . reunion, but I'm afraid we should be on our way." Lois mumbled aside to Clark, "I see some things never change." Jeff and Melanie smiled and started toward the time machine only to be intercepted by Lois and Clark. Clark offered his hand to Melanie. "I'm sorry you had to go through all that, Melanie." "Oh, that's okay. I know it's just all part of being married to a superman. . . and believe me it's worth it!" "I know exactly how you feel," Lois added, wrapping an arm around her husband's waist. Jeff smiled warmly at the young version of his parents. "Thank you so much for your help. You have no idea how much it means to me. . . to us," Jeff corrected while squeezing his wife's shoulder. "We should be the ones thanking you for giving us a future to look forward to," Lois added sincerely. Jeff and Melanie gathered up their bundle of joy from Martha. With a final wave, the young family joined Tempus and H. G. Wells waiting in the time machine. A spectacular light overwhelmed the room as the time machine roared to life and soon disappeared from the living room. After a brief moment of speechlessness, Martha broke the silence. "So, Lois, Clark, tell us what happened." "Yeah, guys. Tell us what happened!" Ellen piped. "Well," Lois started. "Do you remember how we told you about the time Tempus came back in time and tried to kill Clark as a baby? Well, we kind of turned the tables on him." Clark took over the explanation. "H. G. Wells took us ahead to when Tempus was a baby, hoping that, somehow, we could influence his future." "We found out that he had been abandoned at a very young age and spent most of his youth bouncing around from orphanage to orphanage. Then Clark and I decided to go to the time just after he'd been abandoned. . . so we could find parents for him who would raise him with strong morals." "And get this," Clark added, "the couple we found to raise him turned out to be our great great great grandchildren." Their parents regarded Lois and Clark in astonishment before Ellen spoke up. "You mean to tell me that he's now a *part* of the Lane-Kent bloodline. . . so to speak?" "Yup," Lois nodded, "kind of ironic isn't it?" "I'm pretty sure he won't be trying to destroy us anymore. . . now that he's one of us," Clark assured. The ring of the phone interrupted the scattered giggles that echoed through the room. Lois answered. "Hello. . . Oh, hi, Perry. . . Yes, I realize Clark and I didn't show up for work today. . . It's a long story. . . Let's just say that it was a family emergency." Lois winked at her witnesses. "Oh, no. Everything's all right now. . . I'm sorry we didn't call, it just wasn't a priority in light of the emergency. . . Yes, Perry. Clark and I will be in to work tomorrow. . . Yes, and we'll be sure to let you know if there's another emergency. . . Thanks, Perry. . . Bye." The blinding light of the time machine filled the room once again as Lois replaced the receiver. "Mr. Wells, you're back. Is everything okay? Tempus didn't escape, did he?" "Oh, no, Ms. Lane. I assure you everything went as planned. Tempus is safely back in the 22nd century, where he belongs. Did you know that he ends up founding Helping Hand? It's an organization devoted to finding suitable parents for orphans. Quite remarkable, really." "And Jeff and Melanie?" Clark inquired. "Ah, yes. They're back in 2024 with Joey, and the rest of the Lane-Kent family." "You mean. . . they're alive?" Lois was excited. "Yes. It seems that once Tempus was returned to the time in which he belonged, everything he had disturbed, starting in 2019, returned to normal." "So. . . " Lois was expectant, "what's normal?" "Now, now, Ms. Lane. You know I can't tell you that. That's for me to know and you to find out. Now if you'll all file into the time machine. . . " "Wait a minute," Clark interrupted, "are you taking us back to. . . before this all happened?" "Why, yes, of course. We can't have you knowing your future now can we? That would spoil the surprise." One by one, Lois, Clark, Martha and Jonathan stepped into the time machine. "Wait!" Lois shouted as the machine began to hum. "Will Clark and I remember that we're able to have children?" The mystical bright light swallowed Lois' words as the machine, once again, disappeared from the living room. * * * Lois pulled back the covers to her bed and snuggled into her partner's arms. Resting her head on Clark's welcome shoulder, she absently reached for the warm skin covering her husband's ample pectorals and began to rub gently. "Well. . . my parents are back to normal. . . clueless that their son-in-law moonlights in tights." "It seems knowing that I'm Superman brought them nothing but unpleasantness, so now that memory is gone." "I don't think Mom remembers being mad at Dad either." "Apparently not, because I caught them kissing on the terrace." The couple giggled and snuggled closer. However, Lois' smile faded as her mind wandered to darker issues. "Clark, I'm sorry." Clark tilted his head to gaze at Lois in inquiry. "For what?" "I'm sorry that Daddy can't find anything wrong with Star Labs' data. He doesn't think we'll be able to have kids." Lois shifted to better face her husband as he began to speak. "Honey, I have not, for one second, doubted in us. We live the impossible." Clark nudged a stray lock of hair from Lois' eyes and began stroking her cheek. "A child is something brought about by love, isn't it?" Lois searched his eyes and nodded. "Well then that, above all else, has got to be possible for us." Lois smiled at her loving husband. Suddenly needing the feel of her husband's arms encircling her, the feel of his bare skin against hers, she began to pull her body onto his, only to see Clark's heated gaze falter and change into 'the look'. "What? What are you hearing?" "Oh, nothing. I'm sorry, Honey. It's just that. . . " "Uh-huh," Lois urged. "I've just been having the strangest feeling of deja-vu." "Really? You, too? I thought it was just me." Clark's visage gradually returned to one of desire. "You know, deja-vu's not the only thing I've been feeling." Lois began drawing figure eights around the edges of her husband's pectorals. "Really?" she purred. "So, Mr. Kent, tell me about this other feeling you've been having." "I think it'd be better if I showed you. . . " THE END Karen Ward ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:01:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Melissa Day Hall Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review In-Reply-To: <35DF6A77.2FA650A0@gateway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is this how you all feel? I've already posted my opinion of your review, Sandy. >If you do, then I will be more than willing >to withdraw my membership from this list. This, however, is a horse of a different color. I speak now to the entire list, and if you think it's a personal attack- that's your problem. This is a threat that I have seen time and again both recently on this mailing list, and in other lists and internet forae. And, quite frankly, I find it both juvenile and tiring. Stopping your subscription to a mailing list because of what you percieve as an attack (whether real or imagined) is pointless. You are letting one person's opinion stand between you and the rest of the mailing list. You cut yourself off from valuable interaction with people who share interests, if not always the same opinions. It's only a threat to the people who want you to stay, and that makes it both a plea for attention and a blatant attempt to garner sympathy and divide a list into factions. And the most disgusting part about it is that it is an empty threat. Only the list owner can see the entire list of subscribers, and I have yet to meet the list owner who pays much attention to the membership list other than to make sure it's all running smoothly. So no one really knows if the 'threat' has been carried out. More often than not, I've seen people who threatened this wait a week or a month or however long it took for the sympathy posts to die down, and then post again as if nothing had ever happened. I see this as extremely juvenile behavior. I am not the list mother, and I speak in no official capacity. But I feel that this act demeans both the originator of the threat, and the list in general- because the originator does not feel as if the content of the list is worth a few minor differences of opinion. Misha ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:24:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sandy, >> Is this how you all feel? << No. I think editing an already published story was redundant, and doing = so in public without the prior approval of the authors was rather tactless, but I didn't see anything in your posts as either cruel or disdainful. = (That's more direct than I like to be, but you did ask, and you deserved = an honest response) >> If you do, then I will be more than willing to withdraw my membership= >from this list. << I think we've had enough public resignations for one month, thanks (btw, welcome back, Leanne ) >> I appreciate private e-mails of support but frankly it's a little tiring getting private encouragement while receiving public condemnation. << That, I can understand... and hence my public response. Sandy, you and I= are not especially friends, but I do respect your writing skills. I learned a lot from you (and the other participants) during the course of S5. But I think the crucial difference here is in attitude. In offering= your critique, you were clearly operating from a very professional "we're= all in this to improve our writing" standpoint. The trouble is, writing = is a very personal endeavor, and when criticism arrives out of the blue, it can be very hard not to take it personally, which I believe is where thes= e reactions are coming from. Your reaction will probably be a muttered "gr= ow up, people" but that does nothing to soothe hurt feelings. I suspect the best course will be to refrain from public critiques of stories unless the author(s) agrees beforehand. I'm very well aware that= my stories have their faults, and I'm even interested in learning more to= improve my writing in future, but I would not want those faults laid out = & explained on this list. This is a group of people who write for their own enjoyment and to entertain others. Most of us do not have high professional standards, an= d to judge our efforts on those standards is at best inappropriate. IMO. PJ !^NavFont02F063F0030MGHHGNMGPHGdMGfHHfMHhHH66MH68HHBCMHBEHI~MI39HM41580A E-mail from: Pam Jernigan jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC ~~~~~ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html Find all the IRC roundrobin fanfic -- Featuring recommended fanfics ~~~~~ "That would be me. Superman's girlfriend, Clark Kent's wife, Kal-El's concubine. Former girlscout, present reporter, future mental patient. Time traveller, dimension hopper, soul migrator..." Lois reflects on her life, in _Always Something There to Remind Me_ by Zoomway Distribution: Ficlist INTERNET:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:35:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: demona Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review In-Reply-To: <35DF6A77.2FA650A0@gateway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, I will continue to hold onto my comments regarding Sandy's round robin review. I'd rather not go there at all. At 09:03 PM 8/22/1998 -0400, Sandy McDermin wrote: >Is this how you all feel? If you do, then I will be more than willing >to withdraw my membership from this list. I appreciate private e-mails > of support but frankly it's a little tiring getting private encouragement while >receiving public condemnation. Ouch. I hate to be the bearer of the obvious. But my goodness, Sandy, if you belittle your private encouragement that way .. tire of it publicly, as the case may be (and as enthusiastically as you've belittled many other people, writing endeavors and projects on this list), then you may not have much of even *that* form of encouragement forthcoming from now on, either. Ixnay, as they say? ;) Otherwise, while I (as Misha) found the context of your most recent post to be in poor taste, and would have worded it completely differently were I to have written a similar plea to divide the list into factions (I'll send you my revised draft in 3 parts within a few days, I'm just a little busy at present). You should know that it wasn't a total disaster. Your spelling was immaculate! (So far as I can tell, but then again I never have won any awards for spelling, myself!) Best** Demi _______________________________________________________ Demi (a.k.a) Demona or http://fantasia.simplenet.com/lcfantasy/demona.htm --- L&C Site http://fantasia.simplenet.com/lcfantasy --- You gotta dance like nobody's watching, and love like it's never gonna hurt. --- I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. ________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:52:48 EST Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: goldengrove unleaving Subject: Re: Lone Rider review Since Sandy asked for our opinions... I have to agree with Anne (and whoever said this originally) that I think we all need a break. Since this is a fanfic discussion list, there are bound to be disagreements on what constitutes "discussion." And there's going to continue to be disagreements, even if someone were to set guidelines as to what we're allowed to comment on concerning others' stories (which, btw, I'm not advocating someone do). That said, I think if you post a story to a fanfic discussion list, you have to be ready for anything, whether it's what you'd consider appropriate discussion or not. (Personally, sometimes I wonder why people send posts that say only "good story." While it's nice for the author to hear, I wouldn't consider it discussion. But I can understand that someone might, so at that point I simply hit delete & move on.) Too, if you post a review to someone's fanfic, you have to understand that it might result in hurt feelings. In fact, this is the main reason I've never posted anything I've written to the list. Recently I had someone edit a story in a way that might be considered harsh, but it's helping me a great deal. The person who edited it for me pointed out very important things (including rewriting & rewording things she found awkward) and I'm very grateful to her. (And still working on the revisions :) However, I don't know how I would've felt if her comments would've been posted to the list for all to read. So since I'm not yet ready to hear everyone's honest "discussion" about my writing, I'm not posting it to the list. As for Sandy's comment that "it's a little tiring getting private encouragement while receiving public condemnation," I hope that my initial reading of that particular part of her post was correct- that, while it's nice to get private positive comments, she wishes some of those people would act the same way publicly. I hope that you didn't mean that you actually get tired of private encouragement. In fact, Sandy knows that I have written to her privately to let her know how much I enjoyed one of her stories. Both since it was an nfic & since I thought posting a review of it to the list might spoil the ending, I sent my message privately. And I don't think that devalues my opinion of the story. -Christy (who's still gathering up enough courage to post a story to the list one day & find out what everyone, not just the few who trudged thru it via the archive, thinks of my writing) kubitc@kenyon.edu Attalanta on IRC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:57:44 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: -Audrey Howard Subject: Re: Fanfic--"'Tomorrow's Past" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Karen, What can I say about your fanfic, but, WOW!! I loved reading it. -Audrey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:01:58 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lori McElhaney Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/22/98 8:03:44 PM Central Daylight Time, salymc@gateway.net writes: << Is this how you all feel? >> No, not at all, but I "knew" what was coming, being involved in S5. In fact, I was kinda disappointed that my S5 solo effort didn't get this kind of treatment since you were busy with your episode at the time. I know the story would have been stronger for it. As far as criticism of dialogue and style - as far as I'm concerned, the author has the option of taking it or leaving it. Sometimes someone else's style and take on the characters is not yours, so you can just say "thanks for your opinion" and do what you want; but others it's "wow, yes that's exactly what I meant to say." It takes a lot of time and effort to get into the detail you did. I'm in the middle of a fanfic right now, that I hope to post to the list soon - and I'd love to hear what you say about it. As far as grammar goes - well for an archived story, it doesn't seem to matter much. I doubt that unless it has extensive problems, the author is going to reedit and rearchive. But other than that, this is what I thought this list was for: fanfic reading/writing, commenting and critiquing; not everyone will agree with everyone's opinion on a particular fanfic or writing technique, but I think everyone benefits from the discussion. Lori ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 00:30:31 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Donna Lehman <102262.2435@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Re: Fanfic "Tomorrow's Past" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Karen: Loved it!! I am not a writer or do I review but I do enjoy reading....I just enjoyed this one so much. I love anything with HG Wells in it. = I always enjoy references to TV eps and there were many of those and all the warm fuzzys...Thanks. Donna ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:20:09 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lansbury 1 Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/22/98 9:03:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, salymc@gateway.net writes: << I also withdraw my answers to Annie's writers' survey which I'm sure she would not want to host at this point, in any case. >> Sandy, I have made no bones about my disagreeing with your review. I would never let my feelings regarding this matter in anyway keep me from adding you to the Writer's Showcase. Your name was submitted and I sent you a survey. The Writer's Showcase is a different area altogether and has nothing to do with my feelings of your review of Lone Rider. But, if you want your survey deleted I will honor your request. Let me know what you decide. It will be your decision not mine. Annie Lansbury Annie Lansbury ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 01:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Review - "Tomorrow's Past" In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, first the review, then the specific comments. QUICK REVIEW - Overall a good job. Easy to read and kept my interest. Not a very "deep" story, so it didn't require a big emotional commitment, which was just what I needed at 1 am. The ending was clever, with a nice twist. SPECIFIC COMMENTS: These were written as I was reading the story, so they should mostly follow along: SPOILERS BELOW That should be enough. :) Karen, did you say that an older version was already on the Archive under a different name? The story does sound familiar, but I don't remember the ending. How much did you change? I don't remember any specifics about the first version, but I'm assuming >from your introduction that you cleaned it up a fair bit. I didn't see many problems in this version, so it looks like you did a thorough job. All in all, it kept my interest. I liked the twist of introducing Tempus in part 3; I wasn't expecting that when Supes first went to the rescue. You kept the action moving well in the gun fight scene, while still providing the necessary exposition. I would have liked to see a bit more "awe" on Jeff's part when he was introduced to his parents though. He seemed very blase about it, talking to the younger version of his dad as if nothing were unusual. Also, when L&C kissed, you wrote him as amused where I might have gone with a little "grossed out" to be funny. Based on this characterization, I'm seeing the character as very battle-weary, in that he doesn't respond to anything anymore since he's so worn out. Was that what you were going for? > Smoke seemed to emanate from Ellen Lane's ears as her brain >furiously tried to organize her thoughts. "Oh my god! Maybe I'm dead! >Maybe that's why I'm in the same house with a dead writer! Oh no! We're >not *all* dead, are we? We must be. Why else would we all be here with a >dead writer? How did this happen? I don't remember dying. It must have >been when I. . . " I liked your Ellen babble, above ... funny! Clark calling Sam and Ellen, "Mom" and "Dad" .... Personally, it's not to my tastes, but I've seen other fanfic authors do this. I don't see Clark calling anyone that but his parents, the end of "Family Hour" not withstanding. I've always felt Clark was speaking for effect there, speaking for Lois, not himself. Meaning, he was using the terms in context for that scene, but wouldn't use them in general. But that's just me. Definitely a writer's choice. :) (To wit, when I mentioned this on IRC just now, half the room disagreed with me. ) > Sporting his glasses, a pair of black boxers, and a large amount of >gauze on his left shoulder, Clark appeared in the doorway. Ooo, black boxers ... drool. > "Oh. . . it's just that Tempus has really gotten to me. I've >never felt so much hate for one man, except maybe Lex. I feel like I could >actually kill him. And I think that if I confronted him. . . I think I >probably would." I would have liked to see more pain and anger on L&C's part over what Tempus is going to do to their family. You have Clark be upset, but Lois quickly talks him down. I would think Lois would be ready to kill Tempus herself, and Clark wouldn't be so easily cheered. > Dollar signs flashed in Benny's eyes as he reached across the table >to gather up his opponent's money. Especially nice description here. You did a nice job with the Tempus stuff throughout. > Tempus' instructions came to an abrupt end as a searing pain >rocketed though his temples. He dropped to his knees and clutched his >head. Jake rushed to his side, took his arm and attempted to help him to >his feet. Oh, this is good ... got my attention. If this was in the earlier version, I don't remember the solution, so I'm definitely ready to open the next part! > "Herb, I'm an awful person. You have to take me back to the 22nd >century. . . back to jail where I belong!" LOL!! Didn't expect this! > "You mean to tell me that he's now a *part* of the Lane-Kent >bloodline. . . so to speak?" > "Yup," Lois nodded, "kind of ironic isn't it?" LOL! Very clever! Irony worthy of Tempus. Overall, a fun story, Karen. Thanks for posting it. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 03:08:13 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/22/98 10:04:14 PM Central Daylight Time, LoriMcE@AOL.COM writes: << No, not at all, but I "knew" what was coming, being involved in S5. In fact, I was kinda disappointed that my S5 solo effort didn't get this kind of treatment since you were busy with your episode at the time. I know the story would have been stronger for it. As far as criticism of dialogue and style - as far as I'm concerned, the author has the option of taking it or leaving it. >> I think the problem with the comparison here is that *private* solicitation of editing advice of *unarchived* (unposted) works-in-progress are being compared to an *unsolicited* reedit of an *archived* story. Also, S5 stories were not round robins, and since the reviewer expressed repeatedly a dislike for round robins, I'm curious as to what was to be gained by not so much a 'review' as a pastiche of grammar corrections and rewrites of authors? I mean I don't like slashfic, and so I would never dream of reviewing one. For one thing I wouldn't understand the genre well enough to assess it compared to other stories of its kind, and for another I fear my objectivity, because of my dislike for the genre, might also be in jeopardy. >>>But other than that, this is what I thought this list was for: fanfic reading/writing, commenting and critiquing; not everyone will agree with everyone's opinion on a particular fanfic or writing technique, but I think everyone benefits from the discussion.<<< A fanfic list is also about "if you dish it out, then you better be able to take it" Many of those subjected to nothing more than a red-pencil gauntlet had as much right to take issue with Sandy's comments as she felt she had a right to edit and reword their writing. But here's the difference, not one of the authors made a melodramatic threat to unsubscribe from the list. Not one of the authors demanded they be removed from the Showcase, and not one of them demanded public replies of support. When I replied to Sandy's reedit/rewrite, I did not accuse her of one thing, I just disagreed with her choices, and given she felt free to rewrite me, she did the same. It did not seem like a review at all. If I, for example, read a book review, I'd expect to hear about *that* author's style, and regardless of whether the reviewer loved it or hated it, I would *never* expect the reviewer to *rewrite* it! That's why it seemed more like an unsolicited edit and not a genuine review at all. At least with a review you can defend your choices and disagree and see things as a difference of opinion or taste, but when you're rewritten, I'm sorry, that's insulting. I could be catty here and say "especially if you're rewritten badly" but I didn't think they were bad rewrites, just totally unsolicited and showed a lack of understanding of what it's like to write a story live and having to follow the person immediately in front of you, leave a good setup for the person following you and do all of that against the clock. We do not have the luxury of carefully crafting each and every sentence. We can't sit back and ponder if 'that' would have sounded better than 'this'. It dilutes part of what live round robin is all about. It's even different from e-mail round robins where you're not against the clock. In truth, it's a genre that a percentage of fanfic readers just don't like, and a percentage of fanfic writers don't like to participate in. That's fair. That's great in fact, but having someone who has repeatedly admitted to disliking the genre review one, seemed an ill-fated choice for both sides. Round robin writers, like most other writers, don't mind comments or criticisms, but there's a difference between a 'review' (even a scathing one) and someone deconstructing a story utterly and then rebuilding it into their own image. Another round robin with be foisted on the list soon, ignore it, love it, or hate it, just please, don't rewrite it ;) Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Re: Review - "Tomorrow's Past" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >QUICK REVIEW - > >Overall a good job. Easy to read and kept my interest. Not a very "deep" >story, so it didn't require a big emotional commitment, which was just what >I needed at 1 am. The ending was clever, with a nice twist. Thanks! That's pretty much what I was going for. The story I'm working on right not is a lot more *deep* that this one. Thus, it's taking me a lot longer than I expected! >SPECIFIC COMMENTS: > >These were written as I was reading the story, so they should mostly follow >along: > > > > > > > >SPOILERS BELOW > > > > > > > > > >That should be enough. :) Ha ha! ;) >Karen, did you say that an older version was already on the Archive under a >different name? The story does sound familiar, but I don't remember the >ending. How much did you change? Yes, this story was previously known as "Another Family Hour." The old title was the first thing to go! Most of the changes I made dealt with were grammar and style. Basically what I did was rewrite the whole thing, line by line, sticking to the same plot. >I don't remember any specifics about the first version, but I'm assuming >>from your introduction that you cleaned it up a fair bit. I didn't see >many problems in this version, so it looks like you did a thorough job. It only took me a year! ;) Seriously, it means a lot to me for you to say that. I was worried that I was beating a dead horse by going back and doing all that work to a story I had all ready submitted. >All in all, it kept my interest. I liked the twist of introducing Tempus >in part 3; I wasn't expecting that when Supes first went to the rescue. >You kept the action moving well in the gun fight scene, while still >providing the necessary exposition. Thank you, again. This scene was probably the hardest, but also my favourite, to write. However, I knew exactly what I wanted to happen before I started writing it, so that made it a little easier for me. >I would have liked to see a bit more "awe" on Jeff's part when he was >introduced to his parents though. He seemed very blase about it, talking >to the younger version of his dad as if nothing were unusual. Also, when >L&C kissed, you wrote him as amused where I might have gone with a little >"grossed out" to be funny. Based on this characterization, I'm seeing >the character as very battle-weary, in that he doesn't respond to anything >anymore since he's so worn out. Was that what you were going for? That's exactly the characterization I was trying to portray. However, I probably should have gone into more detail about Jeff's on-going battle with Tempus. > >> Smoke seemed to emanate from Ellen Lane's ears as her brain >>furiously tried to organize her thoughts. "Oh my god! Maybe I'm dead! >>Maybe that's why I'm in the same house with a dead writer! Oh no! We're >>not *all* dead, are we? We must be. Why else would we all be here with a >>dead writer? How did this happen? I don't remember dying. It must have >>been when I. . . " > >I liked your Ellen babble, above ... funny! Thank you! I enjoyed writing Ellen very much. I tried be consistent with the show's protrayal of her, yet, when crunch time came, I wanted to show that she could be as strong as the rest of them (i.e. when dealing with the revelation of Clark's alter-ego and the crisis involving of her future grandchildren). >Clark calling Sam and Ellen, "Mom" and "Dad" .... Personally, it's not to >my tastes, but I've seen other fanfic authors do this. I don't see Clark >calling anyone that but his parents, the end of "Family Hour" not >withstanding. I've always felt Clark was speaking for effect there, >speaking for Lois, not himself. Meaning, he was using the terms in context >for that scene, but wouldn't use them in general. But that's just me. >Definitely a writer's choice. :) (To wit, when I mentioned this on IRC >just now, half the room disagreed with me. ) I completely agree with you on this one. Clark was definitely speaking for effect there. I couldn't imagine *anyone* calling their parents-in-law Mom and/or Dad. To me it would seem rather . . . awkward. >> Sporting his glasses, a pair of black boxers, and a large amount of >>gauze on his left shoulder, Clark appeared in the doorway. > >Ooo, black boxers ... drool. Now you know what's going on in my imagination! >> "Oh. . . it's just that Tempus has really gotten to me. I've >>never felt so much hate for one man, except maybe Lex. I feel like I could >>actually kill him. And I think that if I confronted him. . . I think I >>probably would." > >I would have liked to see more pain and anger on L&C's part over what >Tempus is going to do to their family. You have Clark be upset, but Lois >quickly talks him down. I would think Lois would be ready to kill Tempus >herself, and Clark wouldn't be so easily cheered. You have a good point here. I have never thought of that before. I guess I just figured it was Lois' turn to be the level-headed, reasonable one. > >> Dollar signs flashed in Benny's eyes as he reached across the table >>to gather up his opponent's money. > >Especially nice description here. You did a nice job with the Tempus stuff >throughout. Again, thank you! >> Tempus' instructions came to an abrupt end as a searing pain >>rocketed though his temples. He dropped to his knees and clutched his >>head. Jake rushed to his side, took his arm and attempted to help him to >>his feet. > >Oh, this is good ... got my attention. If this was in the earlier version, >I don't remember the solution, so I'm definitely ready to open the next >part! Another one of my favourite scenes to write! Thanks again, again! >> "Herb, I'm an awful person. You have to take me back to the 22nd >>century. . . back to jail where I belong!" > >LOL!! Didn't expect this! > > >> "You mean to tell me that he's now a *part* of the Lane-Kent >>bloodline. . . so to speak?" >> "Yup," Lois nodded, "kind of ironic isn't it?" > > >LOL! Very clever! Irony worthy of Tempus. Nothing makes me feel better than when I can make someone LOL! ;) >Overall, a fun story, Karen. Thanks for posting it. Thank *you* for reading it! I really appreciate that you took your time to read and comment on it! You're advice means a lot to me! Sincerely, Karen :) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:11:18 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Leanne Shawler Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing In-Reply-To: <35DF6A77.2FA650A0@gateway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is this how you all feel? Nope. Although to be fair to Annie -- I remember the first edits I received for my first episode on S5 (I think they were from Kathy and Sheila) -- my reaction? Well, you'll have to ask my husband for the full effect -- but I raged and ranted and finally broke down into tears and sobbed how hopeless I was as a writer. (This wasn't really anything to do with the edit aside >from it being a catalyst -- I'm rather successful at sending myself into a downwards spiral. It's weird - I can recognise it but not stop it -- anyway, enough of my psychoses :)) Well, once all *that* was out of the way, I realised that yeah, for *the most part*, they were right. And their edits (and others that came in) really improved my story. And not only that, but I've read again and again, that if you want to improve as a writer, you've got to take criticism. The tricky part is learning to take the criticism and know when to use it and know when it's a difference of opinion. Take Pam's criticism of my "First Impressions" (and if you thought Sandy was harsh *grin*) ... and she was right -- I really did need to get Kent's POV in earlier if I was going to finish my story where I finished it. Sandy emailed me an opposing view (which I really need to get up on my edits page) and I was like "shoot!" -- but Sandy's would work only if I extend the story instead of wrapping it up as hurriedly as I did. (Both Pam and Sandy recognised that problem too). Unfortunately, with First Impressions I'd reached the "buggrit" stage ... maybe one day I'll sit down and rewrite it yet again -- but not right now. Umm, did I have a point? Oh yeah, I'm still learning what criticism I should take under my wing and to what I should say "buggrit" to. I'm getting better, but when two writers you admire offer opposing opinions -- hoo boy :) Last night, I told Dan: "I want to write." One thing that came out of that was the fact that I would refuse to alter any story idea *just* to get published. For instance, an example from the romance genre: the male has to be so and so (certain age, attitude), the female this and that and no sex, please, we're publishers. And I'm like: but I *want* my male hero to be 46 opposite my younger female -- and I want to include something on homosexuality -- it advances the plot for pete's sake! And it's -- well, I guess I'll never get published if I'm unwilling to write the lowest common denominator. (OK, and there's this daemon on my shoulder cackling and saying, "And because you're not good enough.") Dan's response was: "I want to do music." (Anything: write, perform, etc) "So I make it a hobby." After a bit of thought, I said, "Hmm, so maybe that's why I write fanfic. It's not *really* procrastinating from other, original writing. It's not just because I learn so much from my editors and readers about improving my writing. It's not just because I get these ideas I *have* to write down. It's not just because I have a wicked soul and like Lois to give birth to Tribbles or resurrect Mayson Drake or have Lex reincarnated as Lois' new pet. It's because, in a small way, I am getting published and being appreciated (mostly) among people who like what I like." (actually, I didn't quite say all that, but I'm saying it now. Grant me a little poetic license, hmm?) Now you know I'm a brave soul, or otherwise I wouldn't have a page of edits on "First Impressions" sitting out there on the web. I think I've gotten over the sobbing into my cornflakes in response to criticism (you'll note I still rage and rant but that helps clear my thoughts *grin*). And I'm one of those who would find a typo (which I *swear* breed) or an error and go back in and fix it. I do that on my webpages whenever I browse back over my stories, and that includes stories two years old -- and I *welcome* that kind of response from my readers because if it's a valid change (and I'm not changing from my Aussie spelling for *anyone* -- well, maybe if they pay me I will *grin*) then that just makes the story better for the next reader. >Sorry for the imposition, and sorry for the harsh response but I just >got back from a very pleasant dinner with friends, good food, and >alcohol. I probably won't even remember what I said here. > Don't worry Sandy. I'm sure you've been reminded pretty well by now :) So where does this rambling leave the editing of a round robin story? Well, a coupla things: first, I know how it can affect a writer personally to have their writing critiqued; second, the method of creating a round robin story (like Zoom said) doesn't exactly allow for honing a sentence, which leads to the third; if we ignore the fact that it *is* a round robin (which is what Sandy was trying to do, aside from spotting style changes), then it was an interesting little editing exercise to be accepted or rejected as people choose; and to discuss why one author would prefer it the original way, rather than the other. On a separate note on Zoom's comments about Sandy's comments: there was something you wrote (forgive my impreciseness) about Sandy being confused with respect to what Jeff/Lulu should or shouldn't know about Jeff (education, knowledge of women, I think). You explained what was meant -- but think: if one reader was confused by what was going on, maybe another will be too. As round robin stories appear to be written merely for the pleasure of writers and onlookers and only minor editing done after, as well as the fact this story is already out there, it mightn't apply here -- but perhaps it would be worthwhile noting for future reference that such confusion occurs for a reason and considering Sandy's lengthy edits, I think we can discount careless reading. Perhaps it would be worthwhile sending the story after it's edited to someone who wasn't present at the event/performance who could spot these kinds of things. That is, if you wanna fix these little potholes -- it could be more effort than it's worth? Just an idea. Leanne (who should quit procrastinating and get back to writing) Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com) Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page: http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:13:06 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Stark Subject: Re: Looking for a fanfic In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:40 PM 8/22/1998 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Sandy, and others! > >> Hmm. It's not in the fanfic archive. Is there a webpage or does anyone >> have a copy? (I want to see if my memory of the story is correct.) > >I believe you can find this story at Debby's site (along with several >other wonderful and entertaining stories)! > >Here's the address (hope you don't mind, Debby, I know this one by heart): > >ftp://ftp.swcp.com/pub/users/dstark/Stories > >and it can be found in the folder "Stories by Others". > >Hope that helps! > >Sincerely, >Karen :) Thanks, Karen! Debby Debby@swcp.com back in the saddle again... unfortunately, my saddle bags now have +1500 pieces of unread mail in them (and here a week ago I thought I was catching up...) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:04:52 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: demona Subject: Re: wittering about writing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:11 PM 8/23/1998 -0800, Leanne wrote: >On a separate note on Zoom's comments about Sandy's comments: ... >You explained what was meant -- >but think: if one reader was confused by what was going on, maybe another >will be too. As round robin stories appear to be written merely for the >pleasure of writers and onlookers and only minor editing done after, as >well as the fact this story is already out there, it mightn't apply here -- That's exactly the point, however. It doesn't apply. Perhaps a hundred people read the round robin endeavor. *One* brought up that question, however wholly inconsequential to the actual art form of the piece. One does not a majority make. The entire process of writing a round robin story is comparable to a literary sport. It's a one time event, it occurs live without the benefit of backtracking or extensive preplanning/structuring (anyone who shows up is welcome to write), and it creates a product which is testament to the skills of the writers in integrating their many separate thoughts, minds, ideas, into one cohesive unit. The best thing I can think of to liken it to is Theatre Improvisation (a medium I have practiced extensively in, during my tenure with the art form). We are given an idea, a word, a scenario, whatever. We add a group of people skilled in the medium of that particular form of storytelling, and give them a time limit. Then -- the magic begins. Will the finished product be one which any sane director would solidify (as-is) and mount on a stage without touching it and reworking it for repeated performances? Absolutely not. What an incredible question to even ask! And never, therefore, should a critic attempt to try and analyze the work as though it were a production worthy of the months of planning, rehearsal and forethought which might have gone into an actual, mounted performance. (A finished literary work is no exception to diligent process, either). Indeed, such a critic would be laughed out of his or her profession for even attempting something that inane. Especially if s/he showed no concept in the review of the medium the piece was *actually* performed in. Ignorance is never an excuse for uninformed criticism. The fact that such a critic may have taken 3 pages (or indeed 3 400-page volumes, for that matter) to structure his/her arguments, is just as laughable as if s/he had used four letter words and two one sentence paragraphs. The lack of knowledge of the art form still glares through, and invalidates the criticism wholly. Not to mention it's hair-bristling effect upon the artists involved who know and respect their medium. To be criticized by someone who doesn't have a whit of experience or first hand knowledge therein? We can witter about writing all day and night long, so long as we have a grasp of what we're talking about. But no one appreciates a patronizing review of their work from an uninformed source. Best** Demi _______________________________________________________ Demi (a.k.a) Demona or http://fantasia.simplenet.com/lcfantasy/demona.htm --- L&C Site http://fantasia.simplenet.com/lcfantasy --- You gotta dance like nobody's watching, and love like it's never gonna hurt. --- I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. ________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:31:19 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/98 2:10:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, volterra@SD.ZNET.COM writes: << On a separate note on Zoom's comments about Sandy's comments: there was something you wrote (forgive my impreciseness) about Sandy being confused with respect to what Jeff/Lulu should or shouldn't know about Jeff (education, knowledge of women, I think). You explained what was meant -- but think: if one reader was confused by what was going on, maybe another will be too. As round robin stories appear to be written merely for the pleasure of writers and onlookers and only minor editing done after, as well as the fact this story is already out there, it mightn't apply here -- but perhaps it would be worthwhile noting for future reference that such confusion occurs for a reason and considering Sandy's lengthy edits, I think we can discount careless reading. Perhaps it would be worthwhile sending the story after it's edited to someone who wasn't present at the event/performance who could spot these kinds of things. That is, if you wanna fix these little potholes -- it could be more effort than it's worth? Just an idea. >> Actually the discussion in question had nothing to do with an editorial confusion rather it was Sandy's belief that Lulu should have reacted in a particular way at that point in the story. Zoom disagreed and explained her reasons for disagreeing. As to your suggestion for additional editing of the Round Robins, since the beginning of L&Cfanfic channel our stories have been edited by Georgia Walden. A person of wonderful ability and near limitless patience Georgia has put up with a crew of temperamental writers and has helped us to craft some really terrific stories. We're not in the market for another one. Cheers, Eileen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:23:25 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Georgia E. Walden" Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing In-Reply-To: <6e64e652.35e0b458@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:31 PM 8/23/98 EDT, you wrote: > >As to your suggestion for additional editing of the Round Robins, since the >beginning of L&Cfanfic channel our stories have been edited by Georgia Walden. >A person of wonderful ability and near limitless patience Georgia has put up >with a crew of temperamental writers and has helped us to craft some really >terrific stories. We're not in the market for another one. > >Cheers, >Eileen Thank you, Eileen. Since my shortcomings as editor have been spread out for all the list to see these last few days, it's reassuring to know I still have a job.;) But of course, I do wav requests and my price is right, which might have something to do with it. Many of the items on Sandy's list of Things That Are Wrong With The Lone Rider ;) are my responsibility so it's only fair that I take some of the heat. The writers on the channel count on me to handle the mechanics so that they can get on with the storytelling. Sometimes I mess up, but since this is a hobby for me, not a solemn undertaking, I just say I'll do better next time, and move on. I was asked to do the job by the group about a year ago, and since then it's sort of mutated into a position that's a little more than human spell-checker and a little less than co-writer. ;) I make no claims of infallibility and have no special credentials, though my 25 years as an elementary school librarian working with children aged five to ten don't hurt. Zoom and Pam have already replied to the comments on their sections, so I'll skip those. I've also deleted seventeen typos, suggested word changes, and punctuation errors. Some are a matter of taste not error. Some would have been useful if they had been offered back when the story was on the fanfic list and still subject to correction. To cite any of them now is pointless. 1) At 09:59 PM 8/21/98 -0400, you wrote: >SoulMates Chronicles: The Lone Rider -- The Beginning >Submitted March 25, 1998 > >Pam wondered if I could pick out -- without having it documented -- >where one author stops and another begins in this story. Frankly, I >couldn't tell *exactly* when it happened, but I could definitely detect >different writing styles. Yes, of course you could. If you couldn't I would wonder if you were paying attention. ;. Some readers have said that they find a story seamless and experience it as a whole, but I suspect that's due more to the way the reader approaches it than any actual homogenizing of style. If you're reading for the story, the jokes, the allusions, and the waffs, then you overlook the discrepancies that are inevitable when so many writers contribute. There is *no* attempt to mask the differences; that's why the sections are clearly labeled with the author's names and why it's silly to pretend otherwise. > In fact, I'm glad the names were deleted >because, now, I can fairly assess the writing and content without >prejudice. 2) Are you saying you would have reacted unfairly and with prejudice to the content or errors that you noted if you had known who did what? But you know who's writing an individual story, and apparently you critique it objectively, so why couldn't you in this case? 3) the various rewrites I think it's pretty clear how most people feel about being rewritten without permission in full view of the list. You referred in your introductory paragraph to 'presumptuousness' and in another to 'liberties.' If you know going in that you're being presumptuous and taking liberties, don't be surprised when you're called on it. 4) >>>"Of course, miss. If you'll just step inside, I'll help you with that." >And, he thought, I wish I had the nerve to ask you out.<< > >Oops. It just occurred to me. Shouldn't someone's thoughts be >delineated as such with -- perhaps -- a single quote mark, or >something? 'And,' he thought, 'I wish, etc. This was a decision on my part and so far doesn't seem to have caused any confusion. I remember trying out several ways of dealing with thought, and settled on the minimalist approach as the best compromise. Since we have to submit in plain text to the list and the archive, the ideal solution, a different font, isn't available. Some fanfic writers use asterisks or double asterisks to set off thoughts or dream sequences, but we already use the asterisks for emphasis and scene breaks. If we used all caps for emphasis, that would confuse the reader that the person was shouting rather than simply emphasizing, so that was out. Single quotes are often used to do quotation inside of quotation, and I thought it might not be obvious at first glance what was intended if I used them for thoughts, and also, it makes the sentences look cluttered, so I came back to nothing at all. 5) >> He wondered >momentarily if he should warn her, then decided that she most likely >knew more about the town than he did.<< > >Warn Lulu about what? That he sensed evil in the guy's eyes? Well, yes, why not? Jeff doesn't act on it, because he thinks better of his emotional reaction, but why can't he have the thought? 6) > He >crossed the road and entered the cafe to find her sorting her notes, and >clarifying her thoughts on paper with a well-used lead pencil. He >approached her carefully, still remembering how she had jumped when she >had backed into him.<< > >Jeff *saw* Lulu clarifying her thoughts? Jeff *saw* Lulu "sorting her notes, and clarifying her thoughts on paper", that is, he *saw* her writing up her interview. 7) >reason, he just didn't feel that this was the case. He didn't trust >Lucas, and nothing she could say would change that.<< > >Was Clark's distrust of Lex this rapid? Hmm, they might have been but >were wrapped up in Lois wanting to meet and have dinner with him. >Somehow, there just doesn't seem to be enough here. The shortcuts and leaps of logic in round robins are legendary. It's the nature of the beast. If they're really egregious, I sometimes suggest a little filler or rewriting is in order, but there's a point of diminishing returns in that. Some of the writers do their bits and then forget the story entirely, except to ask when it's going to be posted. They like reading the whole thing afterwards. While they're writing, they have no idea how it's working as a whole, or even recall exactly what they wrote. ;) Even if I think that something more is needed, there's no guarantee that the author will have the time or the desire to provide it, and that's her prerogative. :) There's a new story being written every other week and real lives to live besides. :) >seen some of the larger newspaper offices, but I've never really seen >one run on a smaller scale." In truth, he simply wasn't ready to part >company with her, but he also wanted to see her office.<< > >Why doesn't she question his familiarity with large newspaper offices. >They're in some small Texas town -- I assume. This would be a >curiosity. Even if they were in a bigger town, she'd want to know >how/why he had managed to see "some of the larger newpaper offices". >(Not even singular but plural.) One of the tacit assumptions about the characters in the Soul Mates stories is that they're going to resemble our Lois and Clark. It's part of the game. Clark sometimes displayed surprising knowledge for a "hack from nowheresville" and that characteristic shows up here in Jeff. >>>"And you're clearly not from around here. Where are you from? We don't >get many strangers visiting Candelero," Lulu asked, suddenly back in her >role as editor-in-chief.<< > >This immediately struck me as a continuity gaffe. In *one day*, Lulu >meets a new telegraph operator, introduces him to a new sheriff, and >meets a strange visitor. Yep, one of the biggest problems in round robins is keeping track of time. It's a miracle we didn't have the entire story play out in one day. It's been known to happen. >>Lulu considered the wisdom of the statement, and decided that he was probably right. She had no desire to be shot, and he had already demonstrated once how quickly he could draw and aim his gun. Also, she could think of worse people to be with.<< <> It would be a waste of valuable time to explain how he gained his expertise. The point is that he's demonstrated it. >>>"Well, I thought I'd just let you both know now, I am interested in >courting your daughter and expect to be marrying her later this summer. >She's just the woman to give me the sons I have always wanted. Micah, I >know you and Hattie will give me your permission and blessing."<< > >Why is Lucas speaking so formally? His speech was established earlier in the story as fairly formal. He didn't drop his g's then, so he doesn't now. >>>"How dare he think I would start courting him! If only I could get my >hands on a gun I would run that no-account off this place!"<< > >Women didn't court men. It depends on which meaning of the word 'court' was intended. To court is to engage in activities leading to engagement or marriage. My grandmother referred to dating as courting, as in "Are you courting yet?" The writer is Southern and so am I. Perhaps it's a regional usage, but it isn't necessarily wrong. >>>Jeff and Wells walked out of the small house in Candelero where they had >dropped the sheriff and his wife.<< > >But, *how is the sheriff*? How badly was he harmed? The following line is in the archived version of the story: Doc Bernard had assured them that both would be fine. Perhaps Pam sent you an earlier draft? After being distributed to the fanfic list, the stories are submitted to the archive, and given another once-over by someone on that staff. The true final version of the story is the one in the archive. >First of all, I want to concede that roundrobins -- if the "Lone Rider" >is an example of them -- have gotten better, more polished and more >enjoyable for the reader. But, I still maintain, that they are a >better exercise for the writer, than for their audience. Writers get >to collaborate, and they learn from each other. At least, I'm assuming >that they do. I don't quite understand where the give-and-take is -- >where the opportunity is to give advice and get it. I suppose it's >during the planning session. >Frankly, when it comes to writing, I really >like to get a sense of an author's voice or take on a story. I think >stories done by committee are fine but they're not the best, or we would >have seen more masterpieces of collective writing other than the >Bible. Writing is -- at the heart of it -- a very singular >occupation. Several people have commented on the nature of the round robin experience, so I won't bore you with all my thoughts on it ;). (I know, too late.) However, the primary justification for both the writer and the reader (and the editor, too, for that matter ) is that they're fun. They're not intended as workshops or writing seminars except by the way, if you want them to be. They're social experiences which grew out of fan enthusiasm for the subject matter, not from a desire to learn how to be a writer. I would never spend the time on this that I do if I didn't enjoy reading *Lois and Clark* fanfiction. The bottom line is that I'm a FoLC and this is my way of participating in the fandom. The give-and-take is subtle and unquantifiable, varying with every story. Until fairly recently, there were no planning sessions. People just showed up and after a couple of hours of kicking ideas around, they wrote a bit, in between doing laundry, tending fussy babies or husbands or getting booted by the fickle gods of IRC. Nearly all the people who participate in the round robins have also written stories alone, or are working on one. You can hear their individual voices in these solo efforts, but not all music is made that way. Remember those rounds we sang as children, like "Merrily We Roll Along"? Half the time you might trip up and sing your part wrong (at least I did ) If you get the rhythm right, with everyone joining in on cue, it makes a lovely sound, and if you don't, it was fun trying. Even Spock thought so. ;) Georgia gwalde14@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:28:14 MDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: DEBRA GRAY Subject: Fanfic reac Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----NetAddressPart-00--=_XDCo3344Sil5c1d91be" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------NetAddressPart-00--=_XDCo3344Sil5c1d91be Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry FoLCs - my mailer returned this again for some reason! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_XDCo3344Sil5c1d91be Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Forwarded Message" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from 204.244.119.172 by mail.netaddress.com via web-mailer(3.1) on Mon Aug 24 03:05:18 GMT 1998 Date: 23 Aug 98 21:05:18 MDT From: DEBRA GRAY To: FoLC Mailing List Subject: Fanfic reac Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - just wanted to let Karen know that I loved "Tomorrow's Past"! I was so FRUSTRATED with The Family Hour when it aired, I can't describe it. It felt like the first of a two or three part ep, but then they had to go and cancel the series before it got resolved - that is one of the things that bugged me about the whole end to L&C, that and that it was done so abruptly! Anyway, Karen, I finally feel a sense of closure, if not with the series, at least with the episode. And I have you to thank for that. Thank you. BTW - has anyone NOT read Karen's story? GO DO IT NOW - right now - quit procrastinating already!!!!! Karen - keep posting stories: I'll keep reading 'em. Debra G. - who really has only one complaint about the story; I can't spell "Tomorrow" worth beans, and so just about died when it came to saving Karen's story to disk because of how many times I had to type the @#^%$ word! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------NetAddressPart-00--=_XDCo3344Sil5c1d91be-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:32:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Review - "Tomorrow's Past" - SPOILERS (with no space ) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 5:09 PM -0400 8/23/98, Karen Ward wrote: >Based on this characterization, I'm seeing >>the character as very battle-weary, in that he doesn't respond to anything >>anymore since he's so worn out. Was that what you were going for? > >That's exactly the characterization I was trying to portray. However, I >probably should have gone into more detail about Jeff's on-going battle >with Tempus. Yes, I can see all sorts of backstory on Jeff, with all he's gone through, watching his family get murdered, his wife kidnapped, having to give up his son, etc. If you had been writing a deeper, more in depth story, I would think you could really do a lot here. >I couldn't imagine *anyone* calling their parents-in-law Mom and/or Dad. >To me it would seem rather . . . awkward. This is how I've always thought, but when I asked on IRC, several people told me they called their in-laws Mom/Dad ... learn something new every day. I though it was only in the movies. No one I know personally does that; it's always first names. >>I would have liked to see more pain and anger on L&C's part over what >>Tempus is going to do to their family. You have Clark be upset, but Lois >>quickly talks him down. I would think Lois would be ready to kill Tempus >>herself, and Clark wouldn't be so easily cheered. > >You have a good point here. I have never thought of that before. I guess >I just figured it was Lois' turn to be the level-headed, reasonable one. I guess it depends on how realistic you want to make a story. If you are just going for fluff (not that there's anything wrong with fluff; most of my stories are ), then you can gloss over this. But if you are going to set up a serious situation (like being the last survivor of a family, having all your relatives systematically murdered before you), then it seems somewhat jarring to have L&C just shrug it off to make happy love. One way you might have considered doing it would have been to keep the basic set up, but to have them both kind of brooding, angry, then to make love in a desperate, "afirmation of life" kind of way. This isn't nfic, of course, but setting that kind of emotion up with dialogue, etc. The general scene is the same, but the mood is very different. Think along the lines of the scene in MJD, where Clark talks about his fear and anger, and how he lost his temper with Tempus. Lois tries to console him but he won't be placated. He paces the room like a nervous cat, enable to get a grip on his emotions. Lois feels it too, and they make love to release some of that energy .. or to forget their pain for a time ... and I'll stop here since I'm really getting into nfic. Anyway, just brainstorming. :) >Thank *you* for reading it! I really appreciate that you took your time to >read and comment on it! You're advice means a lot to me! You're very welcome. :) Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:44:00 PDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Peace Everett Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980823232325.0068edc4@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Georgia wrote: >Several people have commented on the nature of the round robin experienc= e, >so I won't bore you with all my thoughts on it ;). (I know, too late.= ) > However, the primary justification for both the writer and the reader = (and > the editor, too, for that matter ) is that they're fun. ... > If you get the > rhythm right, with everyone joining in on cue, it makes a lovely sound,= and > if you don't, it was fun trying. Even Spock thought so. ;) Well put, Georgia! Although I have to admit that participating in a roun= d robin does encourage me to write "up to the level" of the other writers = in the crowd -- to write the best that I can. And a lot of the give and tak= e is in the conversation that goes on around the story as it's being written = -- people commenting on things which the current writer might pick up on and incorporate. Peace ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:19:41 -0400 Reply-To: ruthlg@apk.net Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Ruth Link-Gelles Subject: Re: Fanfic--"'Tomorrow's Past" (7 of 7) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really enjoyed your story(and i don't usually like continuations of episodes, so that means a lot) Keep on writing!!!!! Ruth ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:26:49 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Lansbury 1 Subject: Writer's Showcase Comments: To: LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, A new Featured Writer has been added to the L&C Fanfic Writer's Showcase. I hope you all enjoy reading about the new featured writer of the week. The URL is http://www.simplyorganized.simplenet.com/showcase.html Annie Lansbury ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 00:59:45 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Georgia E. Walden" Subject: One final word ;) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all interested parties, assuming there are any left by now : In case my remarks about the manner in which round robins are written have been interpreted to mean that the end products are in any way inferior to single author fanfics, let me correct that now. Just like the rest of the archive, there are good ones and bad ones. In fact, the ratio of good stories to bad is pretty high in the round robin category, and you could even say that they're *better* than other stories, because they're written under much more trying circumstances.;) With so many strikes against them, it would be understandable if none of the round robins were successful, and that is certainly not the case. Like 'em or loathe 'em, they aren't easy and so even flawed stories represent a triumph of talent and creativity by all that contribute to them. :) Georgia gwalde14@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 02:56:54 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/98 4:10:24 PM Central Daylight Time, volterra@SD.ZNET.COM writes: >>>The tricky part is learning to take the criticism and know when to use it and know when it's a difference of opinion.<< The trick is to select an editor carefully. One who understands the genre or format of a particular story. Georgia Walden is clearly the best choice for editing round robins because she understands the genre. She doesn't over edit the story because that takes away some of the "feel" the live story format has. Having someone disdainful or utterly unfamiliar with the format do the editing is like hiring a screenwriter to edit prose or vice versa. As Scotty said "the right tools for the right job" However, this also applies to fanfic in general. Find a fanfic editor from among the editor/writers whose work you enjoy and admire, and who has a like- minded grasp of the characters. I would never choose an editor, for example, who writes L&C so different from the show's characterization that I can't even see them as Lois and Clark. An editor and writer should be an alliance for the best output possible, not one person's opinion bullying you as a writer into changing things you really don't want to change. Be confident enough in your own work to stand up for it and defend it when you think the editor is wrong. If you lack confidence and just go with what an editor says, then guess what? You're not the writer anymore, the editor is. >>>As round robin stories appear to be written merely for the pleasure of writers and onlookers <<< Can you tell me a type of fanfic that *isn't* written for the pleasure of the writer? I mean let's be realistic. This isn't a job. We're writing stuff that takes time, thought, planning and execution and we're *not* getting paid for it. If any fanfic writer isn't getting pleasure out of it, then that writer is a masochist. Round robin is no different. I participate because I derive pleasure from it and enjoy interacting in a live forum with other writers who I've come to know and respect. When I write a fanfic by myself, I do it for the pleasure of writing it as well. Life is way too short to do *anything* you don't get paid for if you're not deriving pleasure from its pursuit. No one should sit in terror of posting a fanfic to the list or archive fearing it will not be liked or worse, picked to pieces. If that person enjoyed writing it, is proud of it, and knows that his or her best effort was expended in producing it, then that's all that matters. >>>then it was an interesting little editing exercise to be accepted or rejected as people choose; and to discuss why one author would prefer it the original way, rather than the other.<<< This would be okay if the story were being presented for editing, which it was not. However if we pretend that it had been, I'm afraid this gets back to what I said about *carefully* picking your editor. I enjoyed Rhen as an editor as I enjoy Georgia as an editor because both of them had a love for the show and a good memory for specific scenes. When I put in an Ultra Woman scene tribute, Georgia realized it, but it went completely over Sandy's head. Now it probably went over a lot of peoples' heads, but that's okay, they're *not* the editor, but for it to go over the editor's head would be a huge red flag for me. I love putting in references to the series' episodes, dialog reworking, etc. Not everyone will catch them, but I have to work with an editor who can and does, so thanks, Georgia ;) >>>On a separate note on Zoom's comments about Sandy's comments: there was something you wrote (forgive my impreciseness) about Sandy being confused with respect to what Jeff/Lulu should or shouldn't know about Jeff (education, knowledge of women, I think)<<< Actually no, I was the one who was confused One moment (sometimes seemingly whim inspired) Sandy remembered Jeff was raised and educated in the East, and then she'd comment on another passage and seem to have forgotten that entirely. That would be another red flag for me I have to have an editor with an appreciation for storytelling, characterization and a feel for the series itself. The rest is mechanics, and while machinery can be programmed to fix mechanics, a human being is what I need to understand story and character motive and have a good ear for dialog and know that characters are human too and so are not grammatically correct all the time when they speak. I mean one day L&C might be talking to someone who speaks in that singular Pennsylvania Dutch manner "Throw me down the stairs my shoes!" I would not appreciate an editor correcting that character's dialog grammar no matter how tempting ;) An editor who corrects dialog for grammatical errors would cause another huge red flag. Dialog *is* the voice of the character, and when it is arbitrarily hacked and honed to be mayonnaise on white bread, then all characters in that type of writer's fanfic start sounding *exactly* the same. Talk about "strike up the bland" Lastly, always go with your own instincts when you're writing. Respect your take on the story and the characters. You wouldn't have written it at all if you were writing it in hopes it would be letter perfect and written to someone else's standard of perfection. If you've written something to the best of your ability, then post it, or submit it to the archive. Fanfic readers love new stories and they're actually very forgiving of small errors and oversights. That's how it was with the series too. Viewers who wasted time worrying that Lois's engagement ring would have burned up in the atmosphere when Clark threw it into space didn't understand what the series was really all about and likely never will understand. The same deal with fanfic. Lois and Clark was a character-driven show and so the plotlines were often quite flimsy and bestrewn with convenient occurrences, holes and lapses in logic, but that didn't matter much since their best destiny was as a framework in which Lois and Clark could do their stuff ;) Don't hold back on posting something out of fear. We all had to make that first post, and I'm not saying it isn't scary, but what if Clark never got up the guts to ask Lois out on that first date? I shudder to think Don't believe your story has to be an 'epic' or 'deep' (whatever the heck that means in the realm of romantic comedy ;) It just has to be a story you wanted to tell, and chances are, a lot of people will want to read it ;) So, as Lois said "What are you waiting for?" ;) Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:51:29 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 02:58:08 EDT, Zoomway@AOL.COM writes: << I have to have an editor with an appreciation for storytelling, characterization and a feel for the series itself. >> Oy, I have to disagree with Zoom!! (Fortunately, I know Zoom doesn't mind this. ; ) ) Having been on the editing team for S5, I looked forward to Sandy's comments on many of the stories and can assure you her adeptness at grammar helped considerably. Plus, I edited Sandy's ep and I do believe that even if she doesn't match your needs, Zoom, she has an appreciation for storytelling, characterization and a feel for the series itself. In fact, I told her after reading about the first 5 sentences that her writing just reaffirmed why I don't write! I can't paint scenes with words the way she can, but I know it so I stick to reading, enjoying, and some editing. --Laurie (who would like some cool breezes or lower humidity here on the east coast) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:13:23 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Angee Chaudhry Subject: I'm leaving so take care Comments: To: lnc-uk@cnac.gov MIME-Version: 1.0 H all, I just thought I'd send a quick message to the list as I wanted to say goodbye. I have to leave because my computer has major problems that need to be corrected so I am sending it away to get fixed. I will be back soon .... thanks for being so great and keeping Superman alive for me :-) Bye Angee -- Angee Chaudhry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:18:37 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Sandra McDermin Subject: In Response to the Feedback From My Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Because my home ISP account was acting so erratically and I enjoyed the list so much that I didn't want to miss anything, I've been subscribed to the L&C fanfic discussion list from two accounts: from home and from work. The day after I received so many unhappy e-mails about my review of "The Lone Rider" I unsubscribed from my home account, and therefore, couldn't respond to you from home. Shortly after this message is posted, I will unsubscribe from my work account. In no particular order, other than the order by which I received them: Melissa said regarding my offer to withdraw: >>This is a threat that I have seen time and again both recently on this mailing list, and in other lists and internet forae. And, quite frankly, I find it both juvenile and tiring.<< Stopping your subscription to a mailing list because of what you percieve as an attack (whether real or imagined) is pointless. You are letting one person's opinion stand between you and the rest of the mailing list. You cut yourself off from valuable interaction with people who share interests, if not always the same opinions. It's only a threat to the people who want you to stay, and that makes it both a plea for attention and a blatant attempt to garner sympathy and divide a list into factions. And the most disgusting part about it is that it is an empty threat.<< I'm sorry to know, Melissa, that you find my motivations, as you've interpreted them, disgusting. In all honesty, I don't know why you would use such a harsh word. I can think of many disgusting actions but none of them involve someone indicating that they may unsubscribe from a discussion list because they are finding themselves unhappy with its evolution. In any case, I was not making an empty threat, as you term it, nor was I seeking to divide and conquer. In fact, I was not making a threat at all. I was asking if everyone else felt the way Annie did because that would clear up for me what sort of a response to a story is acceptable on this list. If my "Lone Rider" posts were not acceptable, then I have to find a forum in which in-depth analysis of writing is the norm -- both analysis of my stories and my own analysis of others. If I stayed here, pouty, unhappy, and carping about how this list isn't doing it for me, then *that* would be juvenile. Why is it juvenile to honestly ask if something is appropriate in order to discover if you are where you should be? In my opinion that's sensible and will save further misunderstandings. If I find that my ideas about what this list should be are unwelcome, I can withdraw and move on to a list which gives me what I want. Pam said, >>I think we've had enough public resignations for one month, thanks<< Answered this above. Demi said: >>Ouch. I hate to be the bearer of the obvious. But my goodness, Sandy, if you belittle your private encouragement that way .. tire of it publicly, as the case may be (and as enthusiastically as you've belittled many other people, writing endeavors and projects on this list), then you may not have much of even *that* form of encouragement forthcoming from now on, either.<< I don't belittle people who support me, but over the years -- in my ups and downs on both this list and the L&C list -- I have gotten private messages of support while being skewered publicly over controversial issues in which I've become involved. I thought it would be nice, if those who send private messages of support actually let the rest of you know that I am not the only person who feels a certain way. That may sound selfish on my part, but so be it. I certainly don't see it as an issue of belittling, but of encouragement. (As to the "many" other people, writing endeavors, and projects I've belittled on this list -- according to you -- I don't know what to say about that observation since I don't recognize its validity. This is certainly the first time I've heard about *all* of this egregious behavior. Farah has never brought it up with me nor have "many" other people. As you well know, folcs are usually not shy about letting you know when they're unhappy. But, in my case, if what you say is true, I guess they have been.) Lori said: >>I "knew" what was coming, being involved in S5. In fact, I was kinda disappointed that my S5 solo effort didn't get this kind of treatment since you were busy with your episode at the time.<< Lori, I'm sorry I didn't have time to look over your story. As you say, I was working on my own at the time, but I'd be happy to send you comments in the future on anything else if you'd like. In fact, if there is anyone who wants me to comment on their stories, please ask. If I'm able to do it, I'd like to help. At least, after reading my "Lone Rider" review, you'll know exactly what you're going to get ; ) >>As far as grammar goes - well for an archived story, it doesn't seem to matter much. I doubt that unless it has extensive problems, the author is going to reedit and rearchive.<< Funny you should mention this. Just the other day, someone sent me their comments on "Taken" including a typographical error which I was very grateful to know about. So, I asked Genevieve if we could change it despite the fact that the story has been up on the web for weeks and was "completed" last February. Fortunately, it was fine. I welcome all comments on my stories no matter when I wrote them or how long they've been posted. And, in some cases, I may change it in light of your input. Christy said: >>Since Sandy asked for our opinions... I have to agree with Anne (and whoever said this originally) that I think we all need a break. Since this is a fanfic discussion list, there are bound to be disagreements on what constitutes "discussion." And there's going to continue to be disagreements, even if someone were to set guidelines as to what we're allowed to comment on concerning others' stories (which, btw, I'm not advocating someone do).<< Christy, I couldn't agree more. This was/is a fanfic discussion list and I simply submitted my comments about "The Lone Rider" for discussion. I did not submit my personality or character for discussion, but instead of (or in conjunction with) rebutting my comments, some people felt the need to label me juvenile, cruel, offensive, disgusting, tasteless, and tactless. Perhaps, you're right. Perhaps there should be guidelines for commenting on other's work. Maybe an author needs to spell out whether they want stories, which they've submitted to a public discussion list, commented upon in detail, only generally, or not at all. Maybe they should clearly mention that any suggestions on rewording dialogue would be unwelcome. Perhaps a rule should be stated that once a story hits the archive, only certain types of comments are allowable. I received no such prohibitions, however, regarding "The Lone Rider" or any other story. >>As for Sandy's comment that "it's a little tiring getting private encouragement while receiving public condemnation," I hope that my initial reading of that particular part of her post was correct- that, while it's nice to get private positive comments, she wishes some of those people would act the same way publicly. I hope that you didn't mean that you actually get tired of private encouragement. In fact, Sandy knows that I have written to her privately to let her know how much I enjoyed one of her stories. Both since it was an nfic & since I thought posting a review of it to the list might spoil the ending, I sent my message privately. And I don't think that devalues my opinion of the story.<< Oh God, Christy, of course I appreciate private comments about my fanfic. I enjoy them just as much as anyone else, and I was very happy to receive your message. I also appreciate private messages of support when I'm involved in a hot debate on the list. But, of course, the best support in this latter case is public support, because 1) it might keep a person from feeling lonely and 2) if it's their honest opinion, then by all means, others should know about it too. Zoomway said (and Annie also made the point re lack of solicitation): >>Other than those nitpicks I pointed out, I enjoyed your review, though I should add that our concept of "soulmates" comes from the series "two lovers destined to meet and fall in love over and over again"<< I'm glad you enjoyed it and wish that had been more evident in your later posts on this topic. I read the story twice, making comments in the margins both times while reassessing others. And then, I edited it again when I typed everything into the computer. In other words, I spent a lot of time and thought on this and I loved doing it. It was a real pleasure, and I did enjoy the story. >>I think the problem with the comparison here is that *private* solicitation of editing advice of *unarchived* (unposted) works-in-progress are being compared to an *unsolicited* reedit of an *archived* story. Also, S5 stories were not round robins, and since the reviewer expressed repeatedly a dislike for round robins, I'm curious as to what was to be gained by not so much a 'review' as a pastiche of grammar corrections and rewrites of authors?<< The word unsolicited is kind of fuzzy here. I have repeatedly said that I do not read roundrobins and some roundrobin writers have asked me why -- more than once. When I recently mentioned I had read one, I was almost fested. And then, as you probably know, I was sent a story to read by Pam which was a newer version of a roundrobin. Maybe she should have checked with the rest of you, but, at no time did she or anyone else tell me not to comment on it, not to post comments, not to post detailed comments, nor give me any other instructions. I personally feel that anyone who submits their work to a public fanfic discussion list (or a public list of any kind) is acknowledging the possibility that their story is going to be commented upon -- in whatever detail the reader so desires. What if I had been overwhelmingly positive about "The Lone Rider"? Would my "unsolicited" review in all of its detail, grammatical or otherwise, become such an issue? In any case, even if something has been in an archive, I think it is fair game to be analyzed. It may very well be beside the point to you, but it isn't to me. >>A fanfic list is also about "if you dish it out, then you better be able to take it" Many of those subjected to nothing more than a red-pencil gauntlet had as much right to take issue with Sandy's comments as she felt she had a right to edit and reword their writing. But here's the difference, not one of the authors made a melodramatic threat to unsubscribe from the list.<< I answered this above. >>Not one of the authors demanded they be removed from the Showcase, and not one of them demanded public replies of support.<< Regarding, the showcase: Annie said that my comments on "The Lone Rider" were cruel and disdainful. Why would anybody want to "showcase" the thoughts, goals, and ideas of a person they find cruel and disdainful. Furthermore, why would anyone on this list want to read about the aspirations and thoughts of someone they've labeled juvenile, offensive, tasteless, disgusting, and/or tactless. More to the point, why should I -- the person in question -- want you to? Inadvertently causing an uncomfortable situation is one thing, inviting even further discomfort is another. (However, if the person who asked Annie to send me the survey wants to read my responses, I'll be happy to share it with them.) As for your second comment, I *did not demand* public replies of support. If I may reiterate, I asked if everyone else agreed with Annie, because it would give me a feel for what others wanted to see on this list and for what I can expect from it now and in the future. If the majority agreed with her regarding when and how a story should be commented upon, I would move on to another writing list. I should think that that would be the happiest solution for both this list and for myself. As Pam said in one of her posts, perhaps I'm looking for a more rigorous venue. Demi said >>Indeed, such a critic would be laughed out of his or her profession for even attempting something that inane. Especially if s/he showed no concept in the review of the medium the piece was *actually* performed in. Ignorance is never an excuse for uninformed criticism. The fact that such a critic may have taken 3 pages (or indeed 3 400-page volumes, for that matter) to structure his/her arguments, is just as laughable as if s/he had used four letter words and two one sentence paragraphs. The lack of knowledge of the art form still glares through, and invalidates the criticism wholly. Not to mention it's hair-bristling effect upon the artists involved who know and respect their medium. To be criticized by someone who doesn't have a whit of experience or first hand knowledge therein? We can witter about writing all day and night long, so long as we have a grasp of what we're talking about. But no one appreciates a patronizing review of their work from an uninformed source.<< Here! Here! I agree. No one appreciates a patronizing review of their work >from an uninformed source -- not even me. In my "Lone Rider" review, I made the comment that the end product of a roundrobin -- the story itself -- may not be the best because of the process by which it's created. I reworked a paragraph of the story and acknowledged that I had done so under no pressure of time or of audience. I admitted that I couldn't write my best under such pressures and wouldn't want to. Be that as it may, the process by which the story was created was not the issue, although I've always thought it should be. The issue was the end product. I said -- as I've said before -- that I am not a great fan of the roundrobin product, but others have insisted that the stories have gotten better and that I should read them again. One story was even sent to me personally, although I never meant it to be. However, since it *was* sent to me "masked" of its origins with the intention that I form some opinion, I read it and I commented upon it as I would any other story sent to me for my thoughts. The roundrobin process was purportedly irrelevant. Secondly -- in any case -- I don't think I'm *that* uninformed about the process, especially since I did refer to it and acknowledge its challenges. Demi said in an earlier post: >>Otherwise, while I (as Misha) found the context of your most recent post to be in poor taste,<< The context was and is a writing discussion list. As such, I was commenting on the structure, grammar, plot, dialogue, and characterization of a story. I never got personal, have never gotten personal in my comments about anyone's story, and couldn't get personal in *this* case, even if I wanted to. However, to my chagrin, many of the responses were very personal. The one thing I can say for myself is that I've never belittled anyone who sent me negative comments about my work (as you know since you sent me unsolicited comments on "Taken"). I may not have been happy about them, I may have debated a reader over their comments, but I never questioned their motives, their good opinion, or their character. In fact, I was delighted that they took the time. I was delighted to know that *you* took the time even though you didn't like everything about it. Annie said: >>Finally, it is my opinion a writer writes for his or herself. Especially, since we are all unpaid and do it for entertainment. The bonus to it all... is in hopes someone out there may find enjoyment in what we had done and rejoice with us in our accomplishments.<< I agree that the first person one must please is oneself -- that's one of my justifications regarding my ending for "Taken" -- but in order to hone a skill, feedback of all sorts is necessary. When I've liked a story, I've said so. When I've enjoyed someone's comments on the list, I let them know. However, when I thought that there were ways to improve a story, I haven't held back. I've always felt that I owed the author(s) my honest opinion about their work -- as I would want others to be honest with me about my stories. And now, I've heard all of your honest opinions about what I did, and I respect your right to hold them. I also respect myself enough to know when to call it a day. To those friends and innocent bystanders caught up in this little dust storm, I deeply apologize and hope that you made judicious use of the delete key. I wish you all good luck in your endeavors. Please keep in touch. I'm always here for a chat. Sandy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:33:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Re: Fanfic reac Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sorry FoLCs - my mailer returned this again for some reason! It's all right, Debra, I'm sure we're all familiar with this occurance! > >Hi - just wanted to let Karen know that I loved "Tomorrow's Past"! I was so >FRUSTRATED with The Family Hour when it aired, I can't describe it. It felt >like the first of a two or three part ep, but then they had to go and cancel >the series before it got resolved - that is one of the things that bugged me >about the whole end to L&C, that and that it was done so abruptly! Anyway, >Karen, I finally feel a sense of closure, if not with the series, at least >with the episode. And I have you to thank for that. Thank you. BTW - has >anyone NOT read Karen's story? GO DO IT NOW - right now - quit procrastinating >already!!!!! Karen - keep posting stories: I'll keep reading 'em. Thank you so much for the raving review! You are too kind. You should see the deep shade of red my cheeks have just turned from blushing so hard! >Debra G. - who really has only one complaint about the story; I can't spell >"Tomorrow" worth beans, and so just about died when it came to saving Karen's >story to disk because of how many times I had to type the @#^%$ word! Sorry about that, Debra. I'll try to remember that for future titles. ;) Thanks again! Sincerely, Karen :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:35:46 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Karen Ward Subject: Re: Review - "Tomorrow's Past" - SPOILERS (with no space ) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 5:09 PM -0400 8/23/98, Karen Ward wrote: > >Yes, I can see all sorts of backstory on Jeff, with all he's gone through, >watching his family get murdered, his wife kidnapped, having to give up his >son, etc. If you had been writing a deeper, more in depth story, I would >think you could really do a lot here. A good point. I'll be sure to keep that in mind when I go back and do more some final pollishing before resending it to the Archive. > >>I couldn't imagine *anyone* calling their parents-in-law Mom and/or Dad. >>To me it would seem rather . . . awkward. > >This is how I've always thought, but when I asked on IRC, several people >told me they called their in-laws Mom/Dad ... learn something new every >day. I though it was only in the movies. No one I know personally does >that; it's always first names. Interesting . . . I guess it's got a lot to do with how you were raised. >I guess it depends on how realistic you want to make a story. If you are >just going for fluff (not that there's anything wrong with fluff; most of >my stories are ), then you can gloss over this. But if you are going to >set up a serious situation (like being the last survivor of a family, >having all your relatives systematically murdered before you), then it >seems somewhat jarring to have L&C just shrug it off to make happy love. > >One way you might have considered doing it would have been to keep the >basic set up, but to have them both kind of brooding, angry, then to make >love in a desperate, "afirmation of life" kind of way. This isn't nfic, of >course, but setting that kind of emotion up with dialogue, etc. The >general scene is the same, but the mood is very different. > >Think along the lines of the scene in MJD, where Clark talks about his fear >and anger, and how he lost his temper with Tempus. Lois tries to console >him but he won't be placated. He paces the room like a nervous cat, enable >to get a grip on his emotions. Lois feels it too, and they make love to >release some of that energy .. or to forget their pain for a time ... and >I'll stop here since I'm really getting into nfic. That's a good idea. Actually, I have a scene something like this in my next story (not in too much detail, of course ). Being my first fanfic, I wanted to keep it nice and light so I could get it finished, over with, and submitted to the Archive. But, it's a year later and look what's happened! I'll certainly consider taking your advice when I do my *final* final edit. >Anyway, just brainstorming. :) . . . and I appreciate it very much! Yours, Karen :) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 12:25:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: An editor's thoughts on editing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:51 AM -0400 8/24/98, No Name Available wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-24 02:58:08 EDT, Zoomway@AOL.COM writes: > ><< I have to have an editor > with an appreciation for storytelling, characterization and a feel for the > series itself. >> > >Having been on the editing team for S5, I looked forward to Sandy's comments >on many of the stories and can assure you her adeptness at grammar helped >considerably. I consider there to be two types of editing, what I call "General Editing" and "Story Editing". General Editors go through the story correcting typos, punctuation mistakes, and grammar mistakes. They also might suggest rewording dialogue or descriptions to make things more clear. Story Editors go through the story and say "explain this more" or "you lost me here, what do he want?" or "there's a huge plot hole here." Some people do both types of editing extremely well; others excel in one area or the other. (I'm deliberating not commenting on Sandy's ability in either area because I think this thread has gone on too long already. Thus, I'm going to follow by example and divert the thread. ;)) Both types of editing are very important, and sometimes you have to seek more than one person to give you everything you need. This is why I always suggest to fledgling writers that they get at *least* two people to edit their work. I work with some amazing editors who can proof for both grammar/punctuation and content, but even then, I almost always have two or three of them review my stories. I agree with Zoom that it's ideal when you find someone that you are in synch with to edit. For example, Sheila Harper and I edit each others stories and there have been countless times when one of us has made a suggestion and the other one said "yes! that's exactly what I was going for but couldn't quite get there!", or "oh, that's a good idea; I hadn't thought of addressing that before." This is invaluable, to have someone that can help you in this way. That isn't to say that getting comments from someone that sees things differently can't be helpful, but when you don't agree on characterization or the nature of the relationship, the writer is going to spend too much of their time saying no to the editor. In those situations, the author is better off going into the edits with the self-knowledge that they will give more weight to that editor's grammar comments, and less to their story comments. For example, I'm in the camp that believes Lois and Clark have a "perfect love". They will fight and have problems, but neither will ever leave the other, consider divorce, stop talking to each other for long periods in anger, etc. If I'm writing a story where Lois and Clark have a fight, and an editor suggests having Lois refuse to talk to Clark for days because he was so wrong, it's not going to help me. In my "world-view", Lois and Clark can't stay away from each other. They would, say, deliberately seek one another out to continue the fight if they aren't ready to forgive, but they could never ignore each other. On the flip side, if someone believes that L&C would consider divorce during times of difficulty, my admonision that this would never happen will fall on deaf ears. I am wasting my time trying to edit this story, and the writer is wasting his/her time getting my comments. Now, that's not to say that all differences are bad. If everyone saw things the same way, then editors would be useless because no one could contribute anything new. For example (gotta love these examples ), in S5, we had a lot of discussion on what to name L&C's baby in the final episode. We even conducted a poll on the website to see what the fans could come up with. (We didn't, however, promise to use those names, which is good because some were positively odd ... Leonardo DiCaprio Kent???) One popular girl's name was Lara, after Clark's bilogical mother. I was orginally in the camp that thought this would be a good choice. However, several other S5 members didn't like it, and one made the point that Clark has never shown a fascination with his Kryptonese background, and especially after the NK disaster, he would want to distance himself >from this part of his history, and instead reaffirm his "human" side (like he did at the end of BE). This made complete sense to me, and I changed my vote. (The name the majority ultimately chose, Laura, was explained in the story to be in honor of an aunt of Martha's who was supportive when the Kents adopted what their families believed to be an illegitimate child.) This was a situation where the story benefited from different opinions. It was a difference of opinion over a relatively minor characterization point, rather than a major one. Well, I have to go move the sprinkler (new grass seed, don't you know) so this is probably a good point to end this babble. Kathy (who could talk about editing all day :)) ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Gary Subject: The Unalone Writer: Boys Rules v. Girls Rules MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gee, I visit the 'rents over the weekend and all you-know-what breaks out on the fanfic list (for the umpteenth time)... I think it may be time for some "reflection" as Dr. Friskin might say. Sandy and, previously, Leanne played by Boy's rules and Misha and Beth judged them by Girl's rules. I think we all need to see the bigger picture, and so I quote several passages from a psychologist Ph.D.: "...Boys and girls cluster in same sex groups. The play within these groups differs considerably. Boys tend to engage in active, competitive games. Girls, on the other hand, tend to play cooperatively in smaller groups. Boys enjoy structured games, with set rules and procedures. Taunting, boasting, and jousting with one another is part of the fun. Boys argue often during games, but their arguments seldom end the game. When they can't agree, they resort to the rule book or just repeat the play. They seem to value the rules and procedures that govern the game and make it fair for all participants. They learn, as one teacher told us, 'to argue and hold no grudges.' In other words, boys seem to be good at 'agreeing to disagree.' Their friendships are resilient, surviving even the roughest play and disagreements." "...Girls' play usually centers more on talking and socializing within a small circle of friends. Girls' friendships solidify through shared confidences. Girls are more likely to discuss quietly than to yell and taunt. When a conflict does arise, girls often stop the game until the problem can be resolved to each player's satisfaction. Girls will generally talk it out before they consult the rule book. THEIR FRIENDS' FEELINGS ARE OF GREATER CONCERN THAN CONTINUING THE GAME. Research shows that when girls are asked what makes them feel good about themselves, they tend to recall a time when they helped a friend. Overall, where boys care more about fairness and following and enforcing rules, girls worry more about their standing among friends. Girls are especially concerned with whether they are well liked and will be included in their friends' activities." Sound familiar? I hope so. My point is that in this post-women's liberation era, you gals have two rules books to choose from. This list is essentially a girl play group and you need to make sure that the rules are understood. Gary (Or I'm leaving this list right now! ;-) I mean it this time... I am leaving... I'm unsubscribing... and resubscribing on a different address... so technically it's not an empty threat... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Gary A. Rudick mailto:gar8434@rit.edu | | My personal FoLC/MATH website | | "What's done to children, they will do to society." - Karl Menninger | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:20:36 -0800 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Leanne Shawler Subject: Round Robin Editing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I didn't get around to replying to this last night -- but I never meant to imply that Georgia's editing was anything less than sound. I'm of the firm opinion that typos breed anyway -- in S5, with just about every episode, typos were spotted by one that weren't by another, and we were a group of about 16 people looking at it! This goes beyond the scope of Round Robin editing, but a writer can be so familiar with the work that such things are missed, hence the need for editors, or even a different editor to look at the polished edition. That's why the GEs on the archive are wonderful -- they can take a work you've already had edited to death -- and find something new. Leanne Leanne Shawler aka Volterra on IRC (volterra@sd.znet.com) Web Design: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/design/webdesign.html Home Page: http://www.znet.com/~volterra/leanne.html Midnight Dreaming: The Original Anthony Warlow Home Page: http://www.zweb.com/volterra/anthony.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:48:13 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 13:25:45 EDT, kbrown@WEBMART.NET writes: << I consider there to be two types of editing, what I call "General Editing" and "Story Editing". General Editors go through the story correcting typos, punctuation mistakes, and grammar mistakes. They also might suggest rewording dialogue or descriptions to make things more clear. Story Editors go through the story and say "explain this more" or "you lost me here, what do he want?" or "there's a huge plot hole here." >> OK, Kathy, and how do you define Perry's role as editor in chief? Remember that even the great writers Lois & Clark get their stories edited whether they want it or not. It's part of submitting the stories to be printed. --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:53:42 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Lone Rider Review -- well, wittering about writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/98 6:52:27 AM Central Daylight Time, Larus2407@AOL.COM writes: << << I have to have an editor with an appreciation for storytelling, characterization and a feel for the series itself. >> Oy, I have to disagree with Zoom!! (Fortunately, I know Zoom doesn't mind this. ; ) ) >> Actually we're not in disagreement I think a writer must find an editor who sees the characters, series and a particular genre the same way for the perfect 'harmonicity' to take place. One person on the list, for example, stated that she saw Ellen Lane as a tragic, abused character, but I see Ellen as someone who doesn't know what "let it go" means Ellen wants to whine and complain because it gets her the spotlight. That doesn't keep me from reading or enjoying that person's fanfic, but it would keep me from wanting her as an editor. By the same token, I can't imagine her wanting *me* to edit her work and she'd be right. We just don't see the characters or the series the same. Another example is someone on this list who doesn't like nfic. She just doesn't, and so if she is also an editor (I don't know if she does editing) she would be the wrong editor to approach with an nfic, and she'd probably be the first person to tell you that This then comes full circle to Sandy. She has stated many times she doesn't like the round robin genre and she is in disagreement with the series' depiction of soulmates (which the SoulMates Chronicles stories use) and so right there, no matter how good a writer she is, that was a writer/editor match that shouldn't have happened. I think you're a good editor Laurie, even though, as you admit, you're not a writer, but if you were presented with a genre you really couldn't stand, I'd hope you would tell the author to choose someone else just to be fair to that author. That's all I was driving at in the post. It wasn't that Sandy isn't a good writer, far from it, it's that having a built-in dislike for a genre and a dislike for an element from the series, like the depiction of soulmates (which the round robin writers try to be faithful to) created a total mismatch between writer and editor. Um, not to mention the story was already edited for the list and then edited once again for the archive, and so the re- reediting was superfluous Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:25 +0200 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: NKWolke Subject: Re: The Unalone Writer: Boys Rules v. Girls Rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi Folcs, Gary wrote: > Gary > (Or I'm leaving this list right now! ;-) > I mean it this time... > I am leaving... > I'm unsubscribing... > and resubscribing on a different address... > so technically it's not an empty threat... Well, honestly what Gary wrote above was the best I read in weeks! What has come over us all here? Why is everyone so ready to offend and to be offended all the sudden? I would like to return to "normal" discussions without flames, without preaching and teaching and PLEASE without unsubscribe-threats! take care all Nicole (who is a little shocked herself that she came out of her lurking-corner... but *really*...) AKA CKgroupie on IRC NKWolke@t-online.de ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:40:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Laurie asked: >> OK, Kathy, and how do you define Perry's role as editor in chief? = << He's a non-fiction editor which is somewhat different. But, since you asked, I imagine he worries most about "hard facts!" and leaves the proofreading to lesser minions. >> Remember that even the great writers Lois & Clark get their stories edited whether they want it or not. It's part of submitting the stories to be printed. << Yeah, but they're also getting paid for it. :-) That sounds flip, but it's really a key difference. They're professionals, and they accept editing, rewriting, etc as part of their job, even when they don't like i= t. (Remember how happy Lois was when Clark pointed out the correct spelling= of acquifer? ) = And most important of all, when L&C are edited by Perry or anyone else at= the Planet, it's at least from someone on their own team. The relationship between writer & editor is crucial. The round robin group accepts all sorts of editing suggestions from Georgia without quibbles, because Georgia is on our team, she's one of us. When you and I were involved in S5, we took edits from all the other members of our team in good part (mostly ) because we knew that we all wanted the same thing:= the best possible end result. = When Sandy (a noted critic of the roundrobin genre) offered edits, the round robin team reacted badly, primarily because she was an outsider, an= d a critical one at that. To give an L&C example, imagine how Lois would feel if Linda King re-wrote one of Lois' articles. No matter what the merits of Linda's edits, Lois would still be furious, because the edit would be in context of a generally adversarial relationship. I don't thi= nk our emotions run quite that high, but that's the general idea. PJ who is sorry that she had any part in precipitating this latest brou-ha-h= a = and who hopes Sandy will find a forum for the sort of vigorous critique she enjoys (may I suggest rec.arts.sf.written?) !^NavFont02F0644001FMGVHG47MG49HGDBMGDDHH5CMH5EHM45CCC4 Distribution: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of S INTERNET:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:43:48 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Cristin J Whitley Subject: A *New* type of Round Robin Hey, FoLCs! Here is my way of drawing attention away from the negative threads..... Recently, I heard of an idea for a new type of Round Robin. This would be a RR written by only teenagers. Before you hate, it let me explain. Apparently some of us younger FoLCs are quite intimidated by the idea of participating in the RRs held Saturdays on IRC. Now, we all love you *wonderful* authors out there! I don't mean to ruffle any feathers or hurt any feelings. The thing is, you all are so outstanding in both your writing and FoLCyness that some of us younger FoLCs are intimidated by your greatness. Personally, I felt this way when I first started IRCing. Now I am used to how great ya'll are, and I enjoy writing with you *very* much. The idea of this new teen RR is to give the younger ones of us a chance to become accustomed to the way a RR works. This way we will be more likely to join in the RRs on Saturdays. Myself and a friend of mine will run these RRs (and would certainly welcome any suggestions from those of you running the original ones!). I would like to try the first teens only RR on Friday, September 4th at 5:00 EST time. If any of you out there are 18 or younger and would like to participate please email me at CKandLL4ever@Juno.com for more information. Any of you FoLCs (any age) that have a suggestion or complaint or (this is the best one!) story ideas, please feel free to contact me. Remember, the FoLCs who aren't allowed to participate, ya'll have nfic. This teenfic could be the counterpart to nfic. People who are old enough to write/read nfic aren't allowed to write this (though they are certainly welcome to read it). Since we are unable to do nfic, I think this idea is perfectly fair. As you can most likely tell, I am very excited and enthusiastic about this. Thanks, Cristin Whitley ***Cristin Whitley :o)***CKandLL4ever@Juno.com*** SUPERfan on IRC Join my Dean Cain mailing list at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/deancainfans ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:57:17 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: A *New* type of Round Robin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/98 3:43:07 PM Central Daylight Time, ckandll4ever@JUNO.COM writes: << Recently, I heard of an idea for a new type of Round Robin. This would be a RR written by only teenagers. Before you hate, it let me explain. >> No, Cristin, actually I think that's a great idea! If I were a teen writer of fanfic, I'd love to be a part of a group of writers in my age group and who might see L&C from that perspective. We have had teens who write on the RRs, and one cute incident was when one said "I've gotta go, my dad says I'm using the computer too long and should work on my homework :P" Admittedly we do end up writing late into the night, and so we older (ancient ;) writers don't have to worry about parents yelling at us or preset bedtimes, though some of us do have to leave to fix dinner, do laundry or take care of children (or yell at teenagers ;) Anyway, I think you have a brilliant plan, Cristin, go for it! Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:36:13 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Jessica Sweeney Subject: Re: I'm leaving so take care Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bye Angee, hope to see you soon!! Jessie~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:42:42 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Re: In Response to the Feedback From My Review Comments: To: SMcDermi@NAS.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 12:34:38 EDT, you write: << I personally feel that anyone who submits their work to a public fanfic discussion list (or a public list of any kind) is acknowledging the possibility that their story is going to be commented upon -- in whatever detail the reader so desires. What if I had been overwhelmingly positive about "The Lone Rider"? Would my "unsolicited" review in all of its detail, grammatical or otherwise, become such an issue? >> Good point, Sandy: Are we hypocritical in our need for feedback? What I mean is, when I asked a while back about whether or not it was appropriate to send comments to the author about an archived story that had been there for some time, (As I did this weekend, Hi Wendy!) I was told that comments are still welcome, years later. I had wondered also if a public list was the forum for such comments. I assume *not* by the way emotions of late have been tossed into disarray. We need to examine ourselves, our writing, and exactly why we do the things we do. If praise is the only reason we write, fine. But be careful what you wish for when asking for feedback, which, I thought, was a general invitation to all readers on this list. I *do* realize that this was an *un*solicited occasion, but really! Do I *have* to be in the majority (as someone stated) to be right about my own opinions? Personally, I don't have the finesse, or the time, to seriously analyze each fanfic I read. But I admire those who do. I am an escapist at heart, and so I immerse myself in the fantasy world (Horrors! You mean they aren't real?) of Lois and Clark. Others on this list are *very* analytical and also editor-minded. I don't have a problem with their responses, either. Sandy made a good point about personal attacks, too: < I never got personal, have never gotten personal in my comments about anyone's story, and couldn't get personal in *this* case, even if I wanted to. However, to my chagrin, many of the responses were very personal. The one thing I can say for myself is that I've never belittled anyone who sent me negative comments about my work (as you know since you sent me unsolicited comments on "Taken"). I may not have been happy about them, I may have debated a reader over their comments, but I never questioned their motives, their good opinion, or their character. In fact, I was delighted that they took the time. I was delighted to know that *you* took the time even though you didn't like everything about it.> I know that writing is a deeply emotional, personal, and often cathartic experience. But the truth is, if an author (or group of authors) decides to send an end product of that nature to a list such as this, naked, before everybody, there are going to be people that don't share that sort of love for the way those words came together. Example: In Crystal's "Full Circle", there was what she termed a serious WHAM in the plot. After reading through it, I wasn't as WHAMmed as others were. (Did I use that correctly?) But I know that for Crystal, it was a heart- wrenching plot and I respect that. Her experience as a writer will never be what my experience as a reader is. BTW, Crystal, you already know that I loved your story! Sandy, I haven't read "Taken", but want to. Please reply to me privately. All other comments may be made to the list. Marie ChoirGirl2@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:42:44 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Re: The Unalone Writer: Boys Rules v. Girls Rules Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ROTFL! Thanks for the levity, Gary. And then Nicole wrote: Marie, Who isn't leaving at all... What was that, honey? You're missing dinner because I can't get through all these posts tonight? ChoirGirl2@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:46:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Ali Tavakoly Subject: This is classic Try this out!!! Comments: To: "bsg-fanfic@eyrie.org" , "dbzml@catbox.com" , Eric Garant , "escaflowne-ml@unixg.ubc.ca" , Gundam List , "hvo0@sm.saddleback.cc.ca.us" , Robert Woolley , "tiorr@asde.com" , "toriyama@lists.x-philes.com" , "VienPhuong@aol.com" , Vinh Hoang MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is good, follow the directions. Does Bill Gates have a problem we don't know about? 1. Open a new document in Word 2. Type "Unable to follow directions" (without the quotes) 3. Highlight the entire sentence you just typed 4. Click Tools; Language; Thesaurus (or hit shift-F7 to open the thesaurus) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:46:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Farah Meitzen Chisham Subject: NO MORE: This is classic Try this out!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I think this is a good time for the rules: 1) NO FLAMING.. this is a flame retardant list, if I catch you flaming at all, I will take the appropriate measures and put you out. 2) NO CROSS-POSTING like this one. Don't pick our address and about 10 of your other friends (or ten other lists just to tell us about "cute" things. (example is shown below). 3) NO NAUGHTY FICS.. by naughty I mean with more than two or three four letter words *and* any of the stuff that may look like it should go on the Debby Stark's nfic list. -- that's where the authors describe more than what clothes Lois is wearing in a particular scene. 4) Please try to keeps things L&C related or Dean/ Teri/K Callan/Justin related is okay. I really don't want to hear anything more about Afghanastan here on the list .. I get enough of that from CNN. 5) KEEP THE "ME TOO" posts to a minimum. If you want to tell someone congrats for having a baby or for graduation or its their birthday, do so via private email. This rule is subject to bending. 6) Watch that relpy button, it may cause trouble. that's all I have for now. Any comments? Please direct them here: farah@chisham.com At 04:46 PM 8/24/98 -0700, you wrote: >This is good, follow the directions. > > >Does Bill Gates have a problem we don't know about? > >1. Open a new document in Word >2. Type "Unable to follow directions" (without the quotes) >3. Highlight the entire sentence you just typed >4. Click Tools; Language; Thesaurus (or hit shift-F7 to open the >thesaurus) > > farah :) fchisham@indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:19:36 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: A *New* type of Round Robin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 16:43:07 EDT, ckandll4ever@JUNO.COM writes: << some of us younger FoLCs are intimidated by your greatness. Personally, I felt this way when I first started IRCing. Now I am used to how great ya'll are, and I enjoy writing with you *very* much. >> Uh-huh, and Cris still faints when someone like KathyB comes onto the channel . Just imagine what she'd do if the "famous" (or is that infamous?) Zoom appeared? --Laurie (who figures Cris set herself up for this tease and will get back at me on IRC...) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:28:06 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: In Response to the Feedback From My Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 19:43:17 EDT, you write: << We need to examine ourselves, our writing, and exactly why we do the things we do. If praise is the only reason we write, fine. But be careful what you wish for when asking for feedback, which, I thought, was a general invitation to all readers on this list. I *do* realize that this was an *un*solicited occasion, but really! Do I *have* to be in the majority (as someone stated) to be right about my own opinions? >> I need to comment on this. Let me just say that *everyone* has a right to an opinion! All we are simply saying (and I think Zoom already tried to drive this point home!) that if this had been a 3 post REVIEW saying how much Sandy *hated* it all would have been fine. But, Sandy took it upon herself to FULLY edit and already edited fanfic. To me that was a slap in the face.. and I didn't even write on this round of fanfic. This was telling me that Sandy felt she could have done better. Perhaps she can, then let her try. But not by ripping this fanfic apart in front of the entire list. I may not be the best writer on this RR team, but I am apart of it. I see what these *very* talanted people do souly for the enjoyment it brings to them. Again everyone is entitled to thier opions, but this wasnt an opinion, it was a total rewrite of a fiction they had worked hard on. And being a part of the SoulMates series, alot of research went into the backround of the ear they wrote on to make sure *everything* was correct in what the charaters said, how they would react and even the way they would use a drawl in they way the spoke. I think a little more than *that* goes into the editing of this particlar fic. Thank You, Anne ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:09:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing In-Reply-To: <8c5e5f59.35e1b56e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:48 PM -0400 8/24/98, Laurie asked: >OK, Kathy, and how do you define Perry's role as editor in chief? LOL, well, in the Archive, I don't act exactly as Perry. I probably would if I could get away with it, but since I don't sign paychecks for all my generous volunteers, it's harder to threaten them. Seriously, though, *my* job as EIC of the Archive involves processing the submitted stories, assigning them onto an editor, following up periodically to make sure the editor is working on it, then, once I get a final copy, assigning the finished file to one of the archivers for uploading. I also format each story with the proper title/author/rating/date submitted info and ensure that a short description has been written. I use a spreadsheet to track each submission and each GE's workload, trying to make sure that no one editor is getting all the long/difficult stories. I let each author and editor know when a story has been sent to the Archive. I also act as a clearinghouse for corrections that need to be made, and track the stories sent to the archivers to make sure each of those has been uploaded. Oh, and when I have some extra time and there's a backlog, I edit some stories myself. Sometimes I think Perry has it easier. >Remember that even the great writers Lois & Clark get their stories edited >whether they want it or not. It's part of submitting the stories to be >printed. Very true, and I think that applies when you are paying someone for the work. In fanfic, it's pretty hard to muscle anyone, since we all do this as a hobby (as a few people astutely pointed out). In S5, the lines blurred somewhat, since by signing on to that project, authors were agreeing to write a directed storyline and to fit their work into an established continuity. Sometimes this caused problems for writers. For example, a few writers wanted to end their episodes with the villian, almost as a mini-cliffhanger or foreshadowing. But, in the show "Lois & Clark", episodes *always* end with a L&C scene. Even the multi-part cliffhanger episodes would show Clark walking away desponded (DJ) or L&C communicating telepathically (BGDF). The show's format dictates that an episode always end with the main characters. This led to the question 'are we writing episodes or fanfics?' We certainly weren't writing scripts; yet at the same time, our overall goal was to write fanfics that would flow like episodes. In this case, these writers were asked to reorder their ending scenes. In those situations (as Laurie will remember, since she was an editor for S5), like with the baby's name, we usually went with "majority rule". Alternatively, we went with "Leanne rule" since she was our coordinator. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:14:38 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: A *New* type of Round Robin In-Reply-To: <19980824.164352.2894.0.CKandLL4ever@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:43 PM -0400 8/24/98, Cristin J Whitley wrote: > I would like to try the first >teens only RR on Friday, September 4th at 5:00 EST time. Good idea, Cristin. And good for you for organizing it. I hope you guys have a blast, and I'm certainly looking forward to reading your stories. :) Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 06:38:32 -0400 Reply-To: lindah46@erols.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Linda Hoffman Subject: Donation for archive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morning All, Does anyone have the address for A.C.T.W.D.(for the archive donations)? I must have copied it wrong for the Post Office returned my envelope with the msg: No Such Number. I sent it to: 418 Greenwood Drive Bethleham,Pa 18020 Thanks, Linda Linda C. Hoffman lindah46@erols.com lindacl on IRC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:29:02 -0400 Reply-To: NightSky@erols.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Genevieve Subject: Choosing an editor WAS: wittering about writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Zoomway wrote: > I think a writer must find an editor > who sees the characters, series and a particular genre the same way for the > perfect 'harmonicity' to take place. One person on the list, for example, > stated that she saw Ellen Lane as a tragic, abused character, but I see Ellen > as someone who doesn't know what "let it go" means Ellen wants to whine > and complain because it gets her the spotlight. That doesn't keep me from > reading or enjoying that person's fanfic, but it would keep me from wanting > her as an editor. By the same token, I can't imagine her wanting *me* to > edit her work and she'd be right. We just don't see the characters or the > series the same. That would probably be me, right, Zoom? Saying you and I don't see the characters or the series in the same way is probably an understatment; the two of us are a prime example of how two people can look at the same thing differently. It's a credit to the show that we can both walk away satisfied. And it's certainly led to some interesting, if long-winded, discussions on both lists. However, I'm not sure that just because a person doesn't see the series in the same light that they wouldn't make a good editor. It is just that kind of person who is likely to find your most glaring problems. I use a number of editors, generally sending my stories to at least four people for comments. One of them doesn't see "Lois and Clark" my way at all. Do you all remember when someone on the list took a survey of your ten favorite and your ten least-favorite episodes? I think it was right after the third season. Anyway, Patty and I shared our lists with each other and had to laugh -- six of my least-favorites were on her "best" list, and vice versa. (Basically she liked the Waffy episodes that left you smiling tenderly, happy for our two favorite charaters, whereas I liked the episodes with big WHAMs -- the ones that left me sitting on the edge of my chair, biting my lip in happy anticipation, wondering what would happen next.) We used to jokingly start posts to each other with "Well, I really liked this episode, so I suppose you were rather bored by it," and for the most part, we'd be right! But it was just because of that that she made a great editor! I'd internalized these characters my way, and it was *obvious* to me how Clark would react to something. But she'd internalized the characters differently, and it wasn't obvious to her at all! "Clark would *never* do that!" she'd tell me. And I'd have to think, and go back, and put in more of Clark's thought processes, more justification for his actions. Except that sometimes, of course, I'd realize she was right, and that Clark never would do that, and I'd end up reworking the whole scene. I may be more concerned with explaining motivations because I feel like I'm writing the minority view. I'm *very* aware that not everyone sees the series in the same way I do. But I'm just not interested in writing about "perfect love" or "soulmates." Reading about it -- that's different. I love a good fanfic, and I enjoy reading it no matter what -- even if it's about [shudder] soulmates. But my daydreaming just doesn't run in that direction, and so, of course, neither will my stories. I'd love to write a story, for instance, where Clark kills somebody. I know, I know, Clark would *never* kill anyone, but that's not the point. It's seeing how he (and Lois) would react to it, how he would deal with the guilt, how it would it change him, and how he would get himself back on an even keel, that fascinates me. Bouncing ideas of people who are like-minded can be enjoyable, and bouncing ideas of people who disagree with you can be challenging. You can learn a lot and get great ideas for your stories by finding both kinds of people. ___________________________________________________________________ Genevieve (NightSky@erols.com) ; For everything you want to know about Superman: in comics, cartoons, television, or movies; from Bud Collyer to Dean Cain -- check out THE SUPERMAN HOMEPAGE ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Raymond, Melody" Subject: SoulMate Chronicles Comments: To: listserv-Indiana posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDD052.73C430D8" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD052.73C430D8 Content-Type: text/plain I have being reading all the SoulMate Chronicle stories and have just finished. I just want to tell everyone involved in the writing of these that I thoroughly enjoyed all four of them. I was great fun traveling back in time with H. G. Wells especially when it involves my favorite characters. I think you all did a terrific job in writing these and researching the history. Keep up the good work. I noticed that Lois's counterparts in past lives seemed to be smarter and able to guess Clark's due persona a lot quicker than in the present and didn't seem to think he was lying or hiding anything from her. I was wondering whether or not any of you thought of trying to do one or more stories on future lives? That might be interesting and involve some sci-fi imagination. Also, I would like to tell Karen I read "Tomorrow Past" and loved it. Keep on writing. 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I must have copied it wrong for the Post Office returned my >envelope with the msg: No >Such Number. > > I sent it to: 418 Greenwood Drive You missed just one number. :) Try again to this address: ACTWD 4180 Greenwood Drive Bethlehem, PA 18020 Thanks for your contribution. We all appreciate it. :) Kathy _________________________________ Kathy Brown Editor-In-Chief Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive <------- please note new address! kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC _________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:44:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Cristin J Whitley Subject: Re: A *New* type of Round Robin Hey, all you FoLCs :o) I'd like to say thanks to those of you who contributed ideas or yourself to the teen RR. Also, I am still prefectly happy to take ideas or questions. We are also still looking for particpants for the RR. So far I have 4 definite authors, 1 definite editor, and a few who are interested. Now I just need to decide what we will write. I also would like to reply to some posts on this thread (Hmmm, that sounds like I am going to say bad stuff, but I'm not!)...... Laurie (I'm still debating over *which* one :o)) wrote: <. Just imagine what she'd do if the "famous" (or is that infamous?) Zoom appeared? --Laurie (who figures Cris set herself up for this tease and will get back at me on IRC...)>> Laurie, Laurie, Laurie!!! Don't you know that I reserve my faints for mentions of Dean? I used to faint for the famous all-knowing FoLCs, but now I try and act normal and try and keep the fainting to a minimum. However, I might have to shake in my boots every once in a while! And *THE* Zoomway ::shake, shake:: wrote: < Admittedly we do end up writing late into the night, and so we older (ancient ;) writers don't have to worry about parents yelling at us or preset bedtimes, though some of us do have to leave to fix dinner, do laundry or take care of children (or yell at teenagers ;) Anyway, I think you have a brilliant plan, Cristin, go for it! Zoomway@aol.com>> I'm glad you like the idea, Zoomster. I was a tad bit afraid ya'll might be offended that we would do a fic without you. Hmmm, I do find myself unable to stick around for the whole story sometimes. Yep, I'm the one who comes in the beginning, takes her turn, and checks back in a few times (ocassionally on my turn! ). Seriously, I am glad you support the idea. Although we may find you and your cohorts ::shake, shake:: intimidating at times, we most certainly value your opinions and trust your judgement. :o) Then Kathy ::shake:: wrote: <> Thanks, Kathy. While I did not come up with the idea, I am having a blast setting things up. I hope we come up with a story good enough to post it for all to read! :o) OK, I must run now. I have homework to do (but my dad doesn't need the computer!! ) Keep those ideas and questions coming, FoLCs. I hope to see some of you on September 4th!!! Cristin (who will now try and stop shaking so the French teacher can read her writing . ) ***Cristin Whitley :o)***CKandLL4ever@Juno.com*** SUPERfan on IRC Join my Dean Cain mailing list at: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/deancainfans ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:00:40 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-24 22:51:07 EDT, you write: << >OK, Kathy, and how do you define Perry's role as editor in chief? >> Well, i was wondering if you considered Perry a story editor or a general editor... As for my worst editing experience--lucky you--it wasn't a FOLC! Some years ago a young man was supposed to write a 1/2 -3/4 page column for each issue of a journal I edit. He's bright, interesting, has unusual insights and is a very gentle person, but I thought he was a horribly awkward writer. His sentence structure was awkward and he tried to use a lot of big words that didn't really fit properly. I edited his column once and he hit the roof! (You heard Leanne tell us how she ranted and raved, well this guy was worse.) He tended to write too much and his column usually needed cutting for length, too. He insisted that I fax back to him my "suggestions" which he would then rework. I had to fight with him over spelling! (He was sure he was right, but I had spell-check and a dictionary on my side ). When I mentioned his awkward style to others, no one seemed to notice! After one of our "arguments" about sentence structure, he told me he wanted his pieces to have a certain style. So, naturally, I asked him to define or describe that style so I could use that to help edit. Never got an answer . He left that position a couple years ago (totally unrelated to our editing arguments) and has gone on to finish medical school. We don't hate each other at all--in fact, there's not a bit of animosity. :) --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:31:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:00 PM -0400 8/25/98, No Name Available wrote: >In a message dated 98-08-24 22:51:07 EDT, you write: > ><< >OK, Kathy, and how do you define Perry's role as editor in chief? >> > >Well, i was wondering if you considered Perry a story editor or a general >editor... I think Perry would be a considered a story editor, since his job is to make sure the content is appropriate, that the sources check out, etc. Persumably, L&C are talented enough writers to not need extensive grammatical or punctuation assistance. Isn't there also a specific person/dept at a newspaper that edits for punctuation, typos, etc? Copywriter? And it's done at the copydesk? (Someone out there has to know newspapers. ) I think Perry probably gives final approval on stories and from what we've seen on the show, determines the general placement of articles on the page, but I doubt he does extensive typo editing. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:49:51 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.M. de Castro" Subject: Clark's Anguish Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Genevieve wrote: << I'd love to write a story, for instance, where Clark kills somebody. I know, I know, Clark would *never* kill anyone, but that's not the point. It's seeing how he (and Lois) would react to it, how he would deal with the guilt, how it would it change him, and how he would get himself back on an even keel, that fascinates me. >> Yeah, but the out could be a story that Wells has to go *fix*: ie: Clark kills someone by mistake. Let him explore all the anguish (just to get it out of *your* system!) and then have Herb pop up and tell us that it was all part of the *wrong* past that someone else had messed up and that it has to be fixed so that the *real* timeline could happen. And no, I'm not going to write it. But it would solve your problem, Genevieve. Marie ChoirGirl2@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:16:09 -0400 Reply-To: NightSky@erols.com Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Genevieve Subject: Re: Clark's Anguish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I wrote: > > << I'd love to write a story, for instance, where Clark kills > somebody. And K.M. de Castro responded: > > Yeah, but the out could be a story that Wells has to go *fix*: > ie: Clark kills someone by mistake. Let him explore all the anguish (just to > get it out of *your* system!) and then have Herb pop up and tell us that it > was all part of the *wrong* past that someone else had messed up and that it > has to be fixed so that the *real* timeline could happen. > I've thought about that. Or about having it turn out to be a robot or a clone or something, so that at the end Lois can say, "It doesn't matter. You didn't really kill anybody!" But doesn't that seem like it would be a real -- cop-out, somehow? All that angst for nothing? I've never been real pleased with the end of TF. "Ooh, sure, just say it all didn't happen!" And apparently a number of people felt the end of Sandy's story "Taken" was a disappointment, myself among them. Perhaps it's better to leave it as an Elseworld, a "what if" story, than to try to force it into our continuity. In the comics, of course, Superman *has* killed. Deliberately and cold-bloodily he executed three really nasty villains. Then he came home and sat in a dark room for hours, had a nervous breakdown, tried to exile himself into space because he wasn't fit to be around people. Eventually, he managed to forgive himself, resolved never to kill again, and came home. But he's still haunted by it. All of that gives a character some depth, IMO, something you can get your teeth into. By the way, Marie, all of Sandy's fanfic, including "Taken," is up on my website at . -- Genevieve (NightSky@erols.com) ; For everything you want to know about Superman: in comics, cartoons, television, or movies; from Bud Collyer to Dean Cain -- check out THE SUPERMAN HOMEPAGE ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:34:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Georgia E. Walden" Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:31 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: > >I think Perry would be a considered a story editor, since his job is to >make sure the content is appropriate, that the sources check out, etc. >Persumably, L&C are talented enough writers to not need extensive >grammatical or punctuation assistance. I don't know, Kathy - remember Operation:Blackout and Lois' white-out? ;) Clark, though, knows how to spell "aquifer" which I had to look up before I sent this post. > > >Isn't there also a specific person/dept at a newspaper that edits for >punctuation, typos, etc? Copywriter? And it's done at the copydesk? >(Someone out there has to know newspapers. ) I don't know anything about newspapers, but Lois definitely says "Clark, that's why we have editors" when he corrects her. I don't think she meant Perry.:) Georgia gwalde14@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:12:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Mary Cudmore Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sandy, I haven't read "Taken", but want to. Please reply to me privately. >All other comments may be made to the list. >Marie >ChoirGirl2@aol.com Where can I find "Taken"? I appreciate all the hard work that goes into the writing of fanfics. Until recently I didn't know about all the other hard work that must be done before we your grateful readers get to do what we do best, read and enjoy. Along with the hard work I thank you for the "heart" work. All of your efforts come from your hearts. Mary C. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:38:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980825203443.0069d1d0@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:34 PM -0400 8/25/98, Georgia E. Walden wrote: >I don't know anything about newspapers, but Lois definitely says "Clark, >that's why we have editors" when he corrects her. I don't think she meant >Perry.:) Good point. As Editor-in-Chief, he must supervise all the other editors. Typos are probably their problem. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:07:22 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Mocha Kat Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 8:40:06 PM, and Kathy Brown wrote: <<>I don't know anything about newspapers, but Lois definitely says "Clark, >that's why we have editors" when he corrects her. I don't think she meant >Perry.:) Good point. As Editor-in-Chief, he must supervise all the other editors. Typos are probably their problem. >> As a journalism student (and a former copy editor), I could tell you that by "editors" Lois probably meant copy editors or section editors (even though the Daily Planet didn't really seem to have any). I haven't followed the entire thread, but I just wanted to clarify that The chain of command, as far as editing goes, is usually reporter, to section editor (city, business, sports, op-ed, etc.), to copy editor, to copy chief (sometimes called "the slot man," or "slot woman" I guess ). The editor in chief, especially in LARGE papers, usually don't see the final product (can you imagine?!). I was always told by journ teachers, "The copy editors are the last line of defense" because they are the last to see the copy before the paper goes to print. Kat's two cents of the year: My copy-editing experience has made me extremely attentive to detail, so I'm good at pointing out misplaced commas as well as continuity holes, especially when it comes to fanfic. In fact (and Jeff Brogden, if he's on the list, can attest to this ), I have probably ruined a fanfic or two because of the "Hey, didn't this happen like this?" or "She already knew about this since " comments when I'm asked to edit. However, I'm probably better on the grammar side than I am at characterization and such. Anyway, that really made me mad about L&C ... no section editors. How was Perry supposed to get anything done?! I digress. I apologize. Back to lurkdom ... Kat ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:06:16 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Grace Wong Subject: What do you do while writing RRs? (Was: A *New* type of Round Robin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Cristin J Whitley wrote: > > Hey, FoLCs! > Here is my way of drawing attention away from the negative > threads..... > Recently, I heard of an idea for a new type of Round Robin. This > would be a RR written by only teenagers. Before you hate, it let me > explain. > Apparently some of us younger FoLCs are quite intimidated by the > idea of participating in the RRs held Saturdays on IRC. Now, we all love > you *wonderful* authors out there! I don't mean to ruffle any feathers or > hurt any feelings. The thing is, you all are so outstanding in both your > writing and FoLCyness that some of us younger FoLCs are intimidated by > your greatness. Personally, I felt this way when I first started IRCing. > Now I am used to how great ya'll are, and I enjoy writing with you *very* > much. > The idea of this new teen RR is to give the younger ones of us a > chance to become accustomed to the way a RR works. First, I want to tell Cristen this is a good idea, and reading this made me think of something. I had the chance to witness a RR about two weeks ago, a group of ten writers were writing about the big move from Clark's old house to their new brownstone, which, I have to ask here: Is it done editing yet??? (/me can't wait to finish reading it ) I remember Eileen, I think, handing out lists of things they wanted mentioned in the fic to writers and then... (drum roll ) one by one, the writers started to write/compose the story! :) I was really surprised and wondered, did any of the writers had written an outline before they started to type? I know some writers would write an outline before they begin their fanfics, and I believe that fanfics with more A-plots would need this method, but what happens during a round robin? would the RR authors even have time to write an outline first? And if you don't, how do you know what to write? Grace == lois1979@yahoo.com Zepher on IRC ~Superman will never use a little buzz-buzz to cheat on cards.~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:36:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Grace Wong Subject: Re: Donation for archive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm sorry if this fills up your mailboxs, but I *really* don't know how to cut and paste with yahoo! ---Kathy Brown wrote: > > You missed just one number. :) > > Try again to this address: > > ACTWD > 4180 Greenwood Drive > Bethlehem, PA 18020 > Kathy, do we write ACTWD as the receiver or if I remember correctly, we were suppose to write someone else's name...? Grace (who is thinking fo sending donations...but it might be around Christmas when I really do it...I'm not Scrooge, just not enough time...and it's too hot to go out anyway...I'll definitely wait till it's winter :-) == lois1979@yahoo.com Zepher on IRC ~Superman will never use a little buzz-buzz to cheat on cards.~ _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:11:41 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: What do you do while writing RRs? (Was: A *New* type of Round Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/26/98 1:13:49 AM Central Daylight Time, lois1979@YAHOO.COM writes: << I remember Eileen, I think, handing out lists of things they wanted mentioned in the fic to writers and then... (drum roll ) one by one, the writers started to write/compose the story! :) I was really surprised and wondered, did any of the writers had written an outline before they started to type? I know some writers would write an outline before they begin their fanfics, and I believe that fanfics with more A-plots would need this method, but what happens during a round robin? would the RR authors even have time to write an outline first? And if you don't, how do you know what to >> Nope, no outline In fact, even though we were given a random list of items to include in the story, the lineup of writers would change if one dropped out or a new one joined, and so there wasn't much planning ahead we could do. The thing with round robin is you're pretty beholding to the person who writes just before you. You have to segue from their part and get your own part in gear and hope within the twenty minute time limit that the items you were given to use (the use of random items is a 'challenge' fic) can be covered. Round robins with A plots don't have outlines either (yeah, yeah, I know what you're whispering ;). In that case, the job of the RR writers is to advance the main plot and character plot as much as possible during each turn. It's why empty exposition (doesn't advance either the plot or characters) is avoided if possible since we try very hard to get a story done by midnight (Eastern time) Before there were time limits, exposition could get out of hand There was also the problem that if one writer took up to an hour or two hours writing a segment, some of the other writers would start to lose interest. It started looking like a single-author story. It also created a lot of scrollback and rereading just to find out what the writer prior to the current one had written. After two solid hours of exposition that was not germane to the plot, it became necessary to find the last writer who had addressed the plot and segue from them instead of the endless exposition. The two most helpful elements to the live round robins have been the time limits, mentioned above, and meeting on Tuesday to create a premise for writing on Saturday. Before that we had to decide on a premise *and* write the story the same day. When it gets to be three in the morning and the story still isn't finished, you start wishing AOL would kick you off line This Saturday will be a little unusual because there will be some preproduction writing. Misha will write the beginning of the story. It involves time travel (not soulmates this time) and so the technobabble beginning will be gotten out of the way ahead of time Misha's start to the story will be pasted to the channel, and then the writers will start from there. Just hop by and join us in Metropolis .. a couple of hundred years ago ;) Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:24:56 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Choosing an editor WAS: wittering about writing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 11:28:39 AM Central Daylight Time, NightSky@erols.com writes: << That would probably be me, right, Zoom? Saying you and I don't see the characters or the series in the same way is probably an understatement; the two of us are a prime example of how two people can look at the same thing differently. It's a credit to the show that we can both walk away satisfied. And it's certainly led to some interesting, if long-winded, discussions on both lists. >> True ;) How we perceive the characters can also have a lot to do with who we are. Though if the characters get too far afield from what the series even remotely intended, then they become Lois and Clark in name only. >>>However, I'm not sure that just because a person doesn't see the series in the same light that they wouldn't make a good editor. It is just that kind of person who is likely to find your most glaring problems.<< More likely what they'd find are *perceived* problems based on their opinion or point of view. My basis for characterization and motive comes from the series. If any editor wants to say I'm wrong, then he or she will have to show me evidence from the series and prove it >>Basically she liked the Waffy episodes that left you smiling tenderly, happy for our two favorite charaters, whereas I liked the episodes with big WHAMs -- the ones that left me sitting on the edge of my chair, biting my lip in happy anticipation, wondering what would happen next<<< For me this is all subjective. The best 'waffs sometimes came after a 'wham'. One of the most powerful and realistic "couple" scenes the show produced (and this is a big nod to Dean and especially Teri) was the end scene to When Iris Eyes Are Killing. Forget the Druid, stay for the angst Lois is so incredibly strong in that scene, and Clark is incredibly vulnerable. It's what made Just Say Noah fun, funny and yet poignant. The waffs were worth the wait, and well-deserved. However, a writer who writes a 'wham' story, drags it on and on, and then ends the whole thing tragically, I will have an assassin sent after them as soon as I can scrape the funds together I don't mind anyone wallowing in endless soap opera suds if that's what they want, but I'd prefer a warning "unremitting tragedy" and I'd know to pass the thing up ;) >>>It's seeing how he (and Lois) would react to it, how he would deal with the guilt, how it would it change him, and how he would get himself back on an even keel, that fascinates me.<<< Most of us who read the Superman comics have read a story line where Clark (Superman) was forced to kill. Lots of guilt and even blackouts where he dons the persona of a Batman-like vigilante. He then exiles himself in space, has some adventures, does some soul-searching and then returns to Earth. As far as Clark from the series killing .. hm, well, I wouldn't rule it out entirely, I guess. "This is a warning. You stay away from her or I promise you will see my ethics disappear." Clark became very strong 4th season. With Lois by his side in every sense, he seemed quite unstoppable, decisive and focused. However if someone killed Lois, and Clark was right there just an instant too late to save her, his rage might be such that he'd kill without it even being a conscious act. Now cold-blooded murder, as in Lois having been killed and then finding the murdered days or weeks later, the temptation might be great, but I don't think he could do it. Accidentally killing someone is a possibility, but one that most could relate to. Not that we've all gone out and accidentally killed someone, but if we drive a car, a child dashes into the street ... it could happen. If Lois's murder isn't the catalyst for Clark killing, then the only way I could see him killing is by accident. That's just my view of it though. >>>Bouncing ideas of people who are like-minded can be enjoyable, and bouncing ideas of people who disagree with you can be challenging. You can learn a lot and get great ideas for your stories by finding both kinds of people.<<< All I learn from people I disagree with is better debating techniques ;) On the subject of editing and fanfic though, Susan, who managed to get through to me earlier today before my dedicated phone line decided it wasn't terribly dedicated after all, suggested a beginning writers' forum, and I thought that was a *super* idea ;) This would be a forum wherein those who might have a story already written, one in progress, or just entertaining the idea of creating a fanfic, could join and get some tips from the more experienced fanfic writers. This could be anything from grammar tips to the mechanics of fiction writing. Since submitting that first fanfic can be a sweaty-palm nightmare, I think the idea of a beginners forum has a lot of potential. Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 06:11:00 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: ARTISTS WANTED Comments: To: LOISCLA@VM.EGE.EDU.TR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Flamethrowers down pleases *both* listmoms have said this is okay :) Hi, FOLCs :) We all know that FOLCs are a pretty creative bunch. We write stories, poetry, songs, etc., and many of us are also into other art forms. I am looking for people to illustrate a hardcopy fanzine that I am coordinating the production of. (I posted about this project to the Loiscla list back in the spring of this year) Several of fanfic's finest authors as well as newcomers to the world of FOLC fanficdom have committed to write stories for this fanzine, including: Zoomway; Chris Mulder; Sheila Harper; Kathy Brown; and Erin Klink. We would like to include illustrations in the fanzine so now we need artists to illustrate some of those stories as well as to submit original artwork they would like to be featured in this fanzine .Those illustrating stories would be provided with a synopsis of the scene the author thinks suitable for illustration. We would appreciate any form of illustration, whether you draw, paint, or use the computer to produce your artwork. There are only three things you need to keep in mind: 1. Your artwork will be reproduced in black/white. therefore, color artwork should not be too dark so it still comes out when reproduced in the fanzine. 2. The fanzine does not feature any stories that go beyond PG13 in tone. Therefore, artwork should abide by the same. (Sorry, I know this means we will need to keep some of the most interesting parts covered ;-) ) 3. Since this is a charity fanzine, it would be unpaid work (like our authors) but you'd have the satisfaction of having your work in print. The deadline to submit artwork would be around October 15, which would give you just about 7 weeks. I know that this is pretty short notice, but I have been behind on the zine planning and hope to have the fanzine ready for mailing out in time for Christmas. If you are interested in submitting artwork or need further information, please contact me at eraygun@gmx.net I hope to hear from the aspiring artists among you soon. Cheers, Eileen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:29:09 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: An editor's thoughts on editing & my worst editing experience Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-26 02:08:08 EDT, Kat5107@AOL.COM writes: << Anyway, that really made me mad about L&C ... no section editors. How was Perry supposed to get anything done?! >> Must be why he never got home to Alice--he was trying to do it all --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:08:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Em-bop Hanson Organization: gURL mAIL (http://mail.gurlmail.com:80) Subject: G'day Comments: To: Fanfic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, sorry if you get this twice, my puter did something funny while i was sending the first msg..anyway just wanted to introduce my self... If you're wondering about my nick, yeah I like (love) the band Hanson and my names Emily so I'm em-bop =) Well I've read like every single Lois and Clark fanfic ever, so I thought i'd join this to get the inside goss. I've written a few Lois and Clark fanfic's but I ususally get bored halfway through and start another hehe. Catch ya later Em-bop =) get your free gURLmAIL at http://www.gURLmAIL.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:41:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Pam Jernigan Subject: What do you do while writing RRs? Comments: To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What do I do while writing RRs? Panic We usually have an idea of where we want the story to go, thrashed out the previous Tuesday and possibly in e-mail as well (Eileen's good at making that info available to a writer if she missed anything). Some of the stories, like the Tai, were worked out a *lot* in advance, some aren'= t. The fun part is that you as a writer don't know what's going to be happening *during your turn* until it gets there; you're at the mercy of the previous author. During the Lone Rider, for instance, I ended one tu= rn with Lulu turning around to see "an older man" entering the room. The ne= xt author got to decide who that was, but to a large extent, that one senten= ce of mine determined what she could do. And you really can't prepare for th= at in advance. When the previous author says NEXT, you have a 5-minute grace period to get your thoughts together (and panic which I still usually do) and plan your scene. You've only got 20 minutes to write (btw, Cristin, you don't have to use these rules; we've found them useful, but the teenfic R= R can come up with any rules you like) so you don't want to attempt anythin= g too involved. Generally we just try to advance the plot a point or two, = or maybe have a nice character moment. It's interesting to see what various writers gravitate towards. I tend to like writing little WAFFy moments if I can shoehorn them in whereas Zoomway is terrific at humor, Misha shines at action, etc. But t= he point of groupfic is that we're all a team, so we do all try to advance t= he story, one way or another. To wander a bit over to the teenfic area... Cristin, I think it's a terrific idea :-) and I wish you great success (and more importantly, ton= s of fun). For story ideas, I recommend that you choose something with som= e movement but not too complicated. If you decide to do a whodunit, decide= in advance who done it so that all the writers know where to throw th= e clues The "Around the World" fic that we did was a good loose premis= e: L&C just travelled randomly around to wherever the next writer wanted to take them, and did anything they pleased. That sort of premise could be done a hundred times and be different each time. Or you could rewrite an= episode - how would ATAI have played out differently if Clark had managed= to fess up in the opening scenes like he wanted to? = But mostly, don't be too hard on yourselves. I remember some of the firs= t RRs we wrote (well, it was before I joined the group, so I probably shouldn't say this ) and some of them were just a mess. We'd get off = on weird tangents about leprechauns or rats or have characters appear in one= scene and disappear in the next and we'd have to trash the whole thing. = We got better with practice, and so will you. PJ who is glad to have something to distract her from the imminent hurricane= :( !^NavFont02F090C0006MGHHPU3972 E-mail from: Pam Jernigan jernigan@compuserve.com / ChiefPam on the IRC ~~~~~ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jernigan/folc.html Find all the IRC roundrobin fanfic -- Featuring recommended fanfics ~~~~~ "That would be me. Superman's girlfriend, Clark Kent's wife, Kal-El's concubine. Former girlscout, present reporter, future mental patient. Time traveller, dimension hopper, soul migrator..." Lois reflects on her life, in _Always Something There to Remind Me_ by Zoomway Distribution: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of S INTERNET:LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:34:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Donation for archive In-Reply-To: <19980826063614.19200.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:36 PM -0700 8/25/98, Grace Wong wrote: >> ACTWD >> 4180 Greenwood Drive >> Bethlehem, PA 18020 >> > Kathy, do we write ACTWD as the receiver or if I remember correctly, >we were suppose to write someone else's name...? You may send cash well wrapped in the envelope (which probably would be easiest for smaller contributions). If you write a check or purchase a money order, please make it out to Maureen Romans. (Can someone else on the Archive verify that I've spelled that right? I'm going from memory here.) Thanks very much. Kathy _________________________________ Kathy Brown Editor-In-Chief Lois & Clark Fanfic Archive <------- please note new address! kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC _________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Susan Subject: Beginner's Fan Fic Forum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oh my-my name was mentioned! EEK :) I must come out of lurkdom...I just joined this list a week ago... Zoomie wrote: >All I learn from people I disagree with is better >debating techniques;) On >the subject of editing and fanfic though, Susan, who >managed to getthrough to >me earlier today before my dedicated phone line >decided it wasn'tterribly >dedicated after all, suggested a beginning writers' >forum, and Ithought that >was a *super* idea ;) This >would be a forumwherein >those who might have a story already written, one in >progress, or just >entertaining the idea of creating a fanfic, could >join and get sometips from >the more experienced fanfic writers. This could be >anything fromgrammar tips >to the mechanics of fiction writing. Since >submitting that firstfanfic can >be a sweaty-palm nightmare, I think the idea of a >beginners forum has alot of >potential. Thanks Zoomway...if anyone would like to help me work on this idea, please let me know privately on my AOL addy...thanks :) Susan casusan@aol.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:54:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Would Clark kill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:24 AM -0400 8/26/98, The Zoomway wrote: >As far as Clark from the series killing .. hm, well, I wouldn't rule it out >entirely, I guess. "This is a warning. You stay away from her or I promise you >will see my ethics disappear." Clark became very strong 4th season. With Lois >by his side in every sense, he seemed quite unstoppable, decisive and focused. >However if someone killed Lois, and Clark was right there just an instant too >late to save her, his rage might be such that he'd kill without it even being >a conscious act. Now cold-blooded murder, as in Lois having been killed and >then finding the murdered days or weeks later, the temptation might be great, >but I don't think he could do it. Here's a question, based on a story line from the comics ... The incident that launched Lois and Clark's broken engagement in the comics (other events followed, but this seemed to be the thing that got Lois thinking first) was that Lois was given a fatal poison by a villian. The villian told Superman that there was an antidote -- but he would have to kill the villian to get it. The villian had antibodies in his own blood that could be processed into an antidote, but only if the villian was dead. Thus was Superman's quandry. Did he commit cold-bolded murder to save his fiancee? Or did he let Lois, the love of his life, die a meaningless death, while a horrible villian lived? In the end, Superman decided *not* to kill the villian and to let Lois die. He decided that Lois wouldn't want him to kill for her, and that by doing so, he would be letting the villian win. Ultimately, as Superman grieved by her side, Lois recovered -- the villian had lied. The poisen mimicked a fatal one, but was temporary. The villian had set it up so he won either way -- either Superman refused to kill and had to live with the fact that he would let his fiancee die, or Superman did kill and would have to live with the fact that it was a meaningless murder (since the poisen wasn't really fatal.) Either way, Superman is guilt-stricken and the villian is triumphant. When Superman explained to Lois what had happened, she was stunned. Although she verbally agreed with him that "I knew you wouldn't want me to murder anyone to save you", you could see in her eyes that she was terribly hurt that he would let her die. (Thus started the whole "I need you, but you don't need me" concern that ultimately led to the break up.) The question that immediately came to my mind was "What would the show's Clark do in this situation?" Would he kill to save Lois? Would he be driven to a nervous breakdown if he did? (like the comics' version was when he killed) My personal feeling is that our Clark would have killed in this situation. Clark said it himself, "if I lost you, I would be losing myself". I don't know that he would be able to let Lois die as long as there was anything he could do to save her. She is his number one priority, above all else, even his own sanity, even above Superman. "Stay away from her, or watch my ethics disappear." I just never felt this sort of passion, this all encompassing bond, between the comics version of L&C. As for the nervous breakdown, I think our Clark would be more likely to suffer one if he let Lois die and didn't do everything he could to save her. Murdering a villian would bathe him in all sorts of awful emotions, but I think the two of them would ultimately be able to work through it. Our Clark seems to be able to get through just about anything as long as Lois is by his side. They would have some rough times, but ultimately, Clark would be able to rationalize what he did and move on. (He's so good at rationalizations, after all. ) Well, that's my opinion. Others? Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:13:41 +0100 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Wendy Richards Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:54:42 -0500 Kathy Brown wrote: [snip] > The question that immediately came to my mind was "What would the show's > Clark do in this situation?" Would he kill to save Lois? Would he be > driven to a nervous breakdown if he did? (like the comics' version was when > he killed) > > My personal feeling is that our Clark would have killed in this situation. > Clark said it himself, "if I lost you, I would be losing myself". I don't > know that he would be able to let Lois die as long as there was anything he > could do to save her. She is his number one priority, above all else, even > his own sanity, even above Superman. "Stay away from her, or watch my > ethics disappear." I just never felt this sort of passion, this all > encompassing bond, between the comics version of L&C. Kathy: This all sounds like a fascinating premise for a fanfic! How about writing it? Or someone else - Genevieve, perhaps? Wendy ---------------------- Wendy Richards w.m.richards@hrm.keele.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:49:36 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 6:13 PM +0100 8/26/98, Wendy Richards wrote: >> My personal feeling is that our Clark would have killed in this situation. >> Clark said it himself, "if I lost you, I would be losing myself". >This all sounds like a fascinating premise for a fanfic! How about >writing it? Or someone else - Genevieve, perhaps? Not me; I've too many other stories unfinished. (/me hides from Demi. ;)) However, I am working (slowly, very slowly) on a story which describes Clark's experiences during the New Krypton war, and his reaction to the violence he sees/participates in. It's a prequel to my nfic Winners. Winners takes place around the same time as LOTF/BE, early fall of 4th season, but the continuity is much different, given that in my story, Clark had spent the summer on NK. These TV summer breaks really wreck havoc with timelines when the show has BGDF in May and LOTF in Sept, but supposedly no time passed in between. Ultimately, I want to make Winners into a three-part series, with the prequel (working title Coming Home) telling about Clark's return to Earth from NK and his recovery from his war-time experiences, and the sequel (working title Winners 2, now isn't that creative? ) which would bridge the continuity difference by ending with the October 6 wedding that the show gave us. I have about 40 pages written on each of these stories, but neither is anywhere near finished. Sigh. Too many stories, too little time to work on them. Coming Home has more than enough emotional trauma to keep me busy. I think it would be years before I could find the time to write a "murder" story. But if anyone else wants to take a crack at it, go for it. :) Kathy (if anyone can think of a way to get my husband to take our daughter on vacation for a month and leave me home alone to write, I'd love to hear it. That might help me finish some of these stories ... course I'd have to unplug the modem, too. I lose more time that way. ) ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "B.B. Medos" Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Okay, my first impulse here is to quip "Is this a trick question, sort of like would he lie?!?" But maybe that wouldn't be a quip at all. At 11:54 AM 8/26/98 -0500, Kathy Brown wrote: >My personal feeling is that our Clark would have killed in this situation. >Clark said it himself, "if I lost you, I would be losing myself". I don't >know that he would be able to let Lois die as long as there was anything he >could do to save her. She is his number one priority, above all else, even >his own sanity, even above Superman. "Stay away from her, or watch my >ethics disappear." I just never felt this sort of passion, this all >encompassing bond, between the comics version of L&C. I think two things are interesting here. One, how the distinction keeps being made in several posts between Clark and Superman and, two, between the series and the comics. Both are crucial aspects because I'm not sure one can compare either with any satisfaction. I think we have to chose one, stick to it and forget the other. I chose the series. The comic Superman is so far past any form of reality in terms of what we're talking about that it's sometimes difficult for me to understand why Lois would want to be married to him in the first place. Our Superman on the other hand has made committment to being married, or rather to being part of a relationship. There is such a big difference between the two, I'm not sure we can compare them and make sense of things. I can't. Then there's the distinction between him acting as Clark and acting as Superman. It's apparently acceptable for the series Superman to kill to save the world - witness Lord Nor - but questionable whether he'd kill to save Lois. Why is that? Judged with the same criteria for justice as everyone else, in certain situations, it would be completely acceptable for any other man to kill in self-defense to save his spouse or his family. Would we penalize him because he's Superman? Yes, and it's the image thing again, not simply a question of morality. As long as he isn't in the suit, or as long as he doesn't use the powers to do it, as long as he's simply Clark - why shouldn't he kill if the situation truly called for it? The power of the series is that the lines between when he's one and when he's the other have been blurred, almost beyond recognition. There are times on the series when he is most definitely both at the same time - witness the threat to Tempus about losing his ethics. Tempus KNEW and was threatening THEIR future world through Lois and they both knew it, so was it Clark speaking or Superman? Or both. That is where the series leaves the realm of the comic book far behind, because that blurring of lines of responsibility is exactly the kind of problem everyday people face. Everyday of their lives. The series took a character who'd always been able to hide behind the mask of heroic self-sacrifice and never had to face the problem of making a committment and pushed it well past that into the realm of having to deal with facing up to his responsibilities once he made his choice between solitude and family. This Superman didn't get the option of being able to say he was no longer Superman once married. He has to live with his choices and make the best of them - as both. Why is it always assumed that if 'he' had to chose between his family and the world, his family would lose? Is that really the values we expect in a hero of today when some of the greatest challenges in our society are within the family unit? What I mean is that the lines have also been blurred on who or what exactly his world is now - humanity or family, symbolized in Lois. I'm not sure we can answer whether he would kill or lie or any of those other morality questions until we first define who he is now and why he'd do any of those things in the first place. Beverly :-) Who probably shouldn't even be posting on general principle but couldn't resist. Shame on you, Kathy, for tempting me past my endurance. ****************************************************************** B.B. Medos Beverly's Book Basket: Beverly's Book Sanctuary: ****************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:00:09 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: The Zoomway Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/26/98 11:56:04 AM Central Daylight Time, kbrown@WEBMART.NET writes: << In the end, Superman decided *not* to kill the villian and to let Lois die. He decided that Lois wouldn't want him to kill for her, and that by doing so, he would be letting the villian win. >> Oh yeah, I hated that comic I remember it well. >>>When Superman explained to Lois what had happened, she was stunned. Although she verbally agreed with him that "I knew you wouldn't want me to murder anyone to save you", you could see in her eyes that she was terribly hurt that he would let her die. (Thus started the whole "I need you, but you don't need me" concern that ultimately led to the break up.)<<< Don't remind me The only good issue in the whole break-up arc was the Mxyzptlk issue ;) >>>The question that immediately came to my mind was "What would the show's Clark do in this situation?" Would he kill to save Lois? Would he be driven to a nervous breakdown if he did? (like the comics' version was when he killed)<<< What's funny is, I think Clark would not only kill the villain (though be sorry it would come to such a point) but have a rational and ethical reason for doing so, even if it wasn't Lois we were talking about. The main thing that marks the difference between Superman and say police officers (other than he's working more in the realm of citizen's arrests than 'official' arrests) is that unlike police officers, Superman almost never faces a situation where he has to use deadly force. Sometimes police officers do find that they have to kill a suspect to save themselves or the potential victims of the suspect. The scenario the comic book set up ,and botched so badly, is a scenario in which Clark would have been preventing a murder if he killed the bad guy. Not killing the bad guy, he allowed him to get away with *murder*. Not very Supermanish in my opinion ;) When a SWAT sniper takes out a gunman holding hostages, he doesn't have a crystal ball, he can't say for certain that if he didn't kill that man, the gunman would have killed those people, but he can't take that chance when all other avenues have failed. Deadly force becomes necessary to save the potential victims. I could see Clark telling a villain who had poisoned Lois and who had said that his death would be the only way to save her, "I'll try and make your death as painless as possible." The villain would initially believe he had won "You're putting your love for Lois above your morals and ethics, Superman." Clark could easily reply, "No, I'm using deadly force to prevent a murder. If I just stood by and let Lois die and did nothing to prevent her murder, I'd be just as guilty of her death as you are, therefore, I'm going to have to use deadly force to prevent her murder." At this point the villain better fess up that he was just testing Superman and that Lois would recover regardless. He'd better say it pretty quick too Zoomway@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:12:57 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Georgia E. Walden" Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit <> Beverly :-) I snipped just this last part just to identify it, since I don't have time to really go into all the ramifications right now, but I just had to say how much I agree with Bev's entire post. Her analysis of the central problem in comparing the series and the comics, the blurring of the two aspects of the character on the show, and most important, the *honesty* of the show is, to me, exactly right. I think the decision of the comic writers to resolve the "poisoning of Lois" storyline the way they did was understandable from their point of view (their audience and their comic book vision is totally different) but after it happened, I could never again think of the relationship in the comics between Superman and Lois again in the same way. I thought he should have been willing to risk tarnishing his oh-so-perfect moral self-image for Lois - for any innocent, for that matter. After all, it's the only place he can be hurt, so it's the bravest thing he could ever do. On the show, in "Sex, Lies, and Videotape", Clark didn't want to tell a white lie, a harmless lie, because it went against everything he stood for and smudged his personal integrity, and I honored him for his willingness to sacrifice himself for that integrity. But the need for the lie to avoid damage which could have been done to him and others *in the long run*, which he finally realized, was also a powerful argument. It came down to a compromise, and it's never easy to know when a compromise is right and when it's merely expedient. Clark wasn't happy that he had to lie, even a little bit, but he accepted his discomfort as the price he paid for maintaining his marriage and his privacy, because they were more valuable to everyone than a lily-white conscience. Naturally, a lie and a death aren't moral equivalents but a small example can sometimes illustrate a point. There are no easy answers. In Home Is Where the Hurt Is, Sam tells Lois, "Now that you're grown up, you know miracles have a price." I think the Clark Kent/Superman of "Lois and Clark" grew up. Georgia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:48:17 PDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "K.C. Boyd" Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist Content-Type: text/plain >>As far as Clark from the series killing .. hm, well, I wouldn't rule it out entirely, I guess. "This is a warning. You stay away from her or I promise you will see my ethics disappear." Clark became very strong 4th season. With Lois by his side in every sense, he seemed quite unstoppable, decisive and focused. However if someone killed Lois, and Clark was right there just an instant too late to save her, his rage might be such that he'd kill without it even being a conscious act. Now cold-blooded murder, as in Lois having been killed and then finding the murdered days or weeks later, the temptation might be great, but I don't think he could do it. << You said Clark got very strong with Lois by his side. I think he would kill for her, but what if it was the other way around. And I don't mean Lois killing for him. I don't know if any of you watch 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer,' but at the end of last season Buffy had to kill her boyfriend to save the world(long story). Do you think that Clark could kill Lois? If he had to be the one to make the choice and had to do it with his own two hands? Lois or the world. How would that effect him? K.C. (who hopes nobody gets to mad at her for this) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:26:17 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-26 13:50:14 EDT, you write: << However, I am working (slowly, very slowly) on a story which describes Clark's experiences during the New Krypton war, and his reaction to the violence he sees/participates in. It's a prequel to my nfic Winners >> ooooooooo, /me locks Kathy in a room with just her, her computer, and her fav drink... Anne ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:28 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC: " IT'S US" Part 1 of 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From Brutal Youth: LOIS: You didn't... CLARK: You seemed to really like the place. I mean-it's in the city. It's got character. And a secret compartment-which is hard to find in a building this style. All you have to do is say the word. It's ours if you want it. He looks for her reaction --finally... she smiles. LOIS: Well... you know I love it. But is it really you? CLARK: No. It's us. ************************************************************ IT'S US A challenge round robin by zoomway (zoomway@aol.com); SUPERcat - SUPERfan (CKandLL4ever@juno.com)& CiceroCat; carrielu (carrielu@mailexcite.com); PeaceEv (peace9@worldnet.att.net); Misha (mhall@sound.net); Mackteach (Mackteach@aol.com); Lansbury (Lansbury1@aol.com); Eraygun (Eraygun@aol.com); chrispat (cp13607@aol.com) __________________ Lois's stuffed animals and Clark's neckties Clark sat in a chair that was staying behind with his old apartment. He watched Lois carrying the last box into the center of the all but deserted living room. She glanced at him. "Thanks, Superman. Don't get up." Clark laughed weakly. "I'm sorry, honey, but you're fun to watch. That bending over thing you've got going--" "Clark." "Okay, okay," he said, rising reluctantly. He looked at the most recent box addition to what was becoming the Lois and Clark warehouse. "Stuffed animals?" "Yes," Lois said, the edge of a defensive tone creeping in. "Honey, I *promise* to keep you warm at night." "I don't sleep with them, Clark ... well ... not anymore." Clark smiled. "Do you need *all* of them, honey? I mean I really don't want to sleep in a girl's bedroom." Lois folded her arms. "Most guys dream of that." "You know what I mean," he smiled and opened the unsealed carton. "You have a stuffed anteater?" "That's Horace." "Uh huh ... oh, and a stuffed .. what *is* that?" Lois grabbed the animal in question. "That's an echidna." "It looks like a sea urchin with hose," Clark continued as he rummaged through the box. He smiled. "I remember this guy." Lois touched the teddy bear. "Clarkie." "Clarkie?" Lois sighed. "Don't make that face. I slept with him two years before I slept with the *real* Clarkie." "Honey, I promised not to call you 'Stretch', please don't call me 'Clarkie'." "Deal," she said, and started placing the animals back in the box. "They're all cute, Lois, but maybe *some* of them could be donated to the Coates orphanage?" Lois walked over to another box and opened it. "Think they could use sixty-one neckties?" Clark raised his eyebrows. "Sixty-one? Really?" "Clark you have enough neckwear to open a specialty shop at the mall." "But they at least serve a function." "Well," Lois said after a moment. "If you and I have a fight, the stuffed animals can replace you for the evening." "Ah," Clark sighed. "Yep, we sure do need all those animals." The bed and Lois's Ultra Woman costume "Hmmm, Lois, where will you sleep with your animals? My bed or yours?" Clark asked. "*Our* bed, lunkhead!" Lois replied, swatting Clark with the stuffed bear. "Fine. I like that," Clark went on, "but we'll be keeping your bed, right?" "No, Clarkie-- sorry, *Clark*," she said as he shot her an irritated look, "we're keeping *your* bed." "Honey, I donated it to the Salvation army. They'll be here to get it at 1:00 o'clock along with the chair and some spare bookcases. I thought we'd use yours." "You did WHAT?" "I donated --" "But, Clark, I gave my bed to Lucy. She needed it for her new roommate!" Lois interrupted. "They'll be here to get it at 1:30!" "Then... we don't have a bed?" Clark asked, confused. "I thought we might have two and have problems deciding which one!" "Where are we supposed to sleep?" Lois said. She was obviously a bit worried. "Well, we could try out other surfaces..." Clark said, eyeing the kitchen counter. "We could." Lois started to move towards him, then turned and walked away as she realized something. "If we start trying *other* surfaces, we might never get packed." Clark followed Lois with disappointment in his eyes. "What are you doing? he asked as she picked up a box. Clark's eyes widened as the lid fell back and he saw her UltraWoman suit. "I like that," he grinned. "Why don't you try it on?" "Why, Clark?" "Um... just to see if it still looks right. There might be a tear in it or something..." "I'll try it on, but only if we can... test drive some new beds when we go mattress shopping tomorrow," she smiled. "Tomorrow? What's the matter with now?" an email and a white rose Clark leaned over to kiss Lois when suddenly the phone rang. Lois rolled her eyes. Clark pecked Lois on the lips and turned to answer the phone. "To be continued later," he said with a grin. Lois smiled. "Hello?" "Uh.. hello, CK?" Jimmy replied. "Am I interrupting anything?" "No, Jimmy. Lois and I were just packing some things." He turned to see Lois looking through one of his boxes. Jimmy continued, "I just sent you an e-mail." "Yeah, what's so important about an e-mail?" Clark said. "You remember the story you and Lois did on a brownstone?" "Yeah. Lois and I investigated the murder of a real estate agent," Clark answered. Lois took a white rose out of the box and smelled it. She walked over to Clark. "Well, the guy who killed the real estate agent, Tom Colby, broke out of jail." "What? You're kidding me?" Clark said, annoyed.. Clark hung up the phone and turned to Lois. "Clark, who was that?" Lois questioned him. "Tom Colby just broke out of jail" Clark answered her. Continued in part 2 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:40 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC: "iT'S US" Part 5 of 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's Us continued from part 4 ______________ Clark came up behind her and read the note over her shoulder. "Mom knows I love down pillows. It was nice of them to get us a new set for a wedding present." He lifted them out of the box and was headed upstairs with them as the phone began to ring. "You go on up. I'll take care of this one." Lois began looking around the room for the ringing phone. She moved box after box until she finally found what she was looking for. "Hello." The person on the other end said in a perky voice, "I'm with the Metropolis Star and we're offering you free home delivery of our newspaper as a 'welcome to the neighborhood' gift." Lois cut the person off before she could continue. "We aren't interested in your offer. We're getting the Daily Planet instead." The voice on the other end moaned, "You mean the Planet beat me again? How do they do it? Do the people in circulation hire Superman to fly around looking for new tenants or home owners?" She was getting testy the longer she spoke, but Lois remained calm as she told her again she wasn't interested. Then the woman made a fatal mistake when she said, "You know, you can't believe a word you read in the Daily Planet. Not with reporters like Lois Lane and Clark Kent reporting for them." Lois looked at the receiver, "Lady, I wouldn't subscribe to your flea-bitten, rat-trap of a daily for any amount of money. The only good use for it is to wrap three day old fish or line a birdcage" Lois was taking a deep breath to continue when she heard a gasp of surprise. "There's no reason to be insulting," the woman said. "No one, not you or anyone, will insult my husband, and you can quote Lois Lane on that." Lois put the phone back on the hook with a slight bang. "Hey, what's happened?" Clark said from behind her. "Nothing at all. We just got our first obscene phone call." "Obscene phone call? What did he say to you?" "It wasn't a him, it was a her. And she wanted us of all people to subscribe to the Star!" Clark laughed and hugged her. He placed his chin on top of her head. "Such blasphemy!" The neighborhood deli, towels and the godzilla doll Clark swayed Lois in his arms. "It's getting late," he whispered. "The comforter is spread out, the pillows are in place. We're the only thing missing." Lois smiled her crooked grin. "You're a minimalist, Clark Kent. We're also missing a bed frame, box springs, mattress and a headboard." She turned in his arms. "What about unpacking stuff so that you can make us breakfast in the morning?" "You're not going to *do* breakfast .. ever?" Lois placed her arms around his neck. "Not a ghost of a chance," she said and then kissed his chin. "The deli next door delivers." *********** Lois sat down ... hard. "Ouch. They call that a 'comforter'?" Clark opened a box. "Maybe now we can find a use for your menagerie of stuffed animals. They can serve as a mattress." Clark began fetching plush creatures >from the box. Lois rose to her feet and rushed over. "Don't you dare! We are not sleeping on my friends." Clark watched as Lois snatched the animals from the box like a protective mother. "Friends?" "Well," Lois hesitated. "I'll make a deal. You can put your sports trophies next to the Kerth awards if we use towels under the comforter instead of my fr .. stuffed animals." Clark laughed and patted the teddy bear. "Okay, fair enough. Give me your 'friends' and I'll put them carefully back in the box." Lois smiled and handed them back, and opened the box marked "bathroom linen". Clark stopped and set the animals aside and reached in to retrieve the last item in the box. "I don't believe it," he whispered as he pulled out a Godzilla doll with an S painted on its chest. "You *kept* this?" Lois started placing folded towels under the comforter. "Sure," she smiled. "It was my first lesson in humility. I found it disturbing, but ... exhilarating." Clark removed his glasses and set them next to the box. He took a seat on the now nicely padded comforter. "I never meant to humiliate you, honey," he said softly. Lois sat next to him and leaned against his shoulder. "I told you I hate it when you edit my copy. I said "humility" not "humiliation'. Besides," she smiled at the distant memory, "I thought you earned seeing me all bedraggled and filthy going on that wild goose chase." He put his arm around her and laid his head against hers. "You looked beautiful to me, Lois. Filth, rips, tears and broken heel." "Uh huh," she laughed softly. "It's the truth. What made you so beautiful is that you could have gone home, changed, and no one would have known what you went through." He put a hand on her chin and turned her face to his. "That was beautiful. Lois couldn't resist his lips so close to hers, and his voice gone all ice cream soft with emotion. She kissed him and tasted the pizza and chocolate. She pulled away just an inch or so. "I think it was the first time I knew I was doomed," she whispered against his mouth. "This upstart from Kansas had class. I was in *big* trouble." "The upstart from Kansas was very impressed with the Mad Dog of Metropolis," he said and kissed her again. "Was he?" "Honey," he said, pulling them both down on the comforter. "He *still* is." a waffy ending ;) Lois smiled as his face loomed over hers. "So's Mad Dog." Clark chuckled softly before his lips met hers in a tender kiss that conveyed all of the love he felt for her. Her lips moved under his, her head slanting to one side to allow for a more complete seal between their mouths. They both sighed into the kiss, leaving each other breathless. Clark rolled onto his back, bringing Lois along with him. She broke off the kiss and opened her eyes slowly. As they focused, she heard Clark's soft sigh and chuckle. "What?" "Oh ... nothing. Just remembering that look on your face when you found out that I was behind your wild goose chase." "Oh." "Not exactly a tender look of love, honey." Lois smiled as she remembered. "Well, you have to understand ... I had an image to uphold at the time." "Uh huh ..." "Hard-bitten news reporter and all that." "You looked more like a *mosquito* bitten news reporter ... and all that." Lois began to laugh. "But I loved you anyway." At his words, her laugh softened and her eyes grew moist with tenderness and love. "I'll have to admit, I did start looking at you differently after that." Clark's eyes widened just a bit at her admission. "Really?" "Really. I figured that one good turn deserved another. And I certainly wasn't going to let you get the last word ..." Her voice trailed off and her eyes twinkled with remembered mischief. Clark came to a sudden realization. "So it was *you* who ..." "Nailed your desk drawer shut ..." "... re-arranged my computer's desktop," Clark finished. "Oh. Yeah. That too." They stared at each other for a moment before collapsing onto the comforter in a fit of laughter. As their laughs subsided, they both sighed and reached for the other's hand. Lois squeezed Clark's and smiled as he returned the pressure. "We were something back then, weren't we? Partners, but not. Friends, but not." "In love, but not," Clark added. Lois sighed. "Yeah." She turned her head to study his profile. "But now ..." Her voice trailed off as she thought of "now" and all of its implications. Clark turned to her and raised onto his side. "Now ..." He released her hand and gently traced her profile with his finger, his light touch teasing and tickling Lois from her forehead to the tip of her nose to her lips and finally to her chin. "Now," he said, "we are." His hand went to the side of her face, pulling her to him. She sighed. "Yes. We are." THE END ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:37 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC: "IT'S US" Part 4 of 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's Us continued from part 3 _________________ Without waiting for an answer, he grabbed the nearest box, dug out his pocket knife, and cut the tape open. Lois couldn't see the label on that particular box, and she held her breath. Clark quickly X-rayed it, letting out a quiet sigh of relief to see that it was magazines. As Jimmy pulled open the box, he exclaimed in dismay, "Oh, no! the knife went too deep!" He picked up the top magazine -- half of its cover and several pages slid to the floor, slit through by his knife. Ralph, following Jimmy's lead, had grabbed another box, and was fishing for his own pocketknife. Clark X-rayed that box too, and saw it was his suits. "Ralph, Jimmy, Perry -- we really appreciate your help, but I think we can handle it from here," he said quickly. Jimmy looked with dismay down at the magazine in his hands. "I'm really sorry, CK -- and it was the swimsuit edition too," he mourned. "I promise I'll be more careful!" "It's okay, Jimmy, I think those Sport Illustrated magazines were packed by accident anyway. Weren't they, honey," Lois said, and Clark quickly picked up on her cue. "That's right -- I'd meant to throw them out! So no harm done!" He began shepherding their helpers to the door. "We *really* appreciate your help, and we don't want to *keep* you any longer! I'm sure you've got *a lot* of things to do this evening! Thank you *so much* for helping us with this!" By the time he stopped talking, the three men were out on the sidewalk, staring at each other in bewilderment. A second later, the door opened again, and Clark thrust the empty pizza boxes into Jimmy's hand. "Would you mind taking these to the dumpster for me? Thanks!" Perry shook his head, chuckling. "Newlyweds!" Jimmy looked at him. "You think-" "Sure, why else would they push us out like that?" "Did you see the look Clark was giving Lois? That was definitely a come hither look!" Ralph dug into his pocket and pulled out a bag of peanuts. "Well, I gotta get this truck back -- you guys coming?" He tossed a handful of peanuts in his mouth and got in the truck. a box of contraceptives and the chicken suit from the metro club Clark closed the door and leaned back against it. "Whew. That was close." He pretended to mop his brow as Lois giggled. She approached Clark and wrapped her arms around him. "Alone at last in our new home," she sighed, nuzzling his neck. "Yeah. So shall we celebrate?" He rubbed his hands over Lois' back and bent his head to kiss her gently. Lois sighed again, but pulled away. "Let's get some of this stuff put away first. Besides, we need to find the sheets." She slapped him playfully on the butt and went to the box Ralph had started to open. Clark let her go regretfully and opened the secret compartment. Lois lifted the suits out and hung them up carefully. "This is fun," she said. "If the National Whisper even suspected - "Lois..." Clark groaned. "Don't even think about it." Lois laughed. "Don't worry. Your secret is safe with me." They both went to open another box. Clark grabbed the nearest one, hoping it would be sheets, but was surprised when he found a box of miscellaneous stuff. When Lois saw what box he had opened, she gasped. "I'll get that one." "Why?" "Um, because --" "Too late, " Clark laughed, as he lifted out the Chicken Suit. " I didn't know you saved this. And what's this?" He pulled out a box of contraceptives that had been hidden under the suit. Lois blushed and launched into full babble mode. "Well, I bought those when we got engaged. I didn't know if you would have thought of them, and then you told me you were a v...very patient man, and I didn't want you to know I bought them, and... Clark chuckled and silenced the babble with a kiss. "You are amazing," he murmured against her lips. "There I was, worrying about putting too much pressure on you, and you were all prepared." Lois pulled back a little and gazed into his eyes. "Are you sorry we waited?" she asked, a bit anxiously. "When I bought those, I thought that you would be like most men and expect more. I'm really glad you were so patient with me." Clark cupped her cheek with his palm in the way that she loved. "No, honey. I'm not sorry. It made our honeymoon much more special. Although...." He grinned wickedly. "Now that I know what we were missing out on all that time...." He bent his head and recaptured her lips with his own. Cable TV problems and a picture of Lex hidden in a box As nice as Clark's kiss was, Lois was focusing her attention on the box behind him. If I can just reach a little further, she thought. She stretched her arm as far as it could reach... Clark pulled away. "Why are you going for that box? Is there something else interesting in there?" Clark started reaching for the box. Lois jumped in front of him and slowly eased him away from the box. "Clark, my TV is messed up. The cable is coming in wrong. All I can get is VH1, and they're doing MadonnaRama. Could you fix it?" Lois was pulling him further and further away from the mysterious box Just as she discreetly pulled a framed photo from the box, Clark came back. "There you go. Now you can watch all the CMT you want, Lois. There's a Mindy McCready video on-- Lois what *are* you hiding?" Clark asked. He was starting to x ray when she ran to the other side of the room. "You can run, but you can't hide!" Clark announced as he hopped in front of Lois with the help of superspeed. He kissed her before she could start talking. Clark slowly slipped his hands around Lois' waist while she was distracted and grabbed a picture of "Lex?!?!?" "Lois, what is this doing in our home?" Clark asked. "I can deal with Jimmy interrupting us, but Lex?" he said. "Well, you see, Lex gave that to me a long time ago. It was back when we were going to be mar- um, when we were together, and when the police thought he died, they returned it to me. I didn't know what to do with it and --" "Lois, calm down." Clark grinned. "It's not that big a deal. You can have a picture of Lex collecting dust bunnies under your bed as long as I'm the one in the bed." Where to place the computers and a salt shaker collection "Clark..." She traced his hairline with a finger. "...I don't want Lex or his picture anywhere near us or our bed." She smiled shyly up at him. "Besides, now that we're married, I don't have to use his picture as a dart-board anymore." Clark looked a little closer at the large picture. The glass that normally protected the portrait was missing, and the face and shoulders were speckled with tiny holes. Lex's eyes, especially, had been peppered with enough darts to be worn through to the paperboard backing. Clark couldn't hold back a wry grin. "What can I say?" Lois shrugged and smiled. "I got a little frustrated while you were being patient." Clark grinned at that, and glanced at the box of contraceptives still in his other hand. Lois followed the track of his eyes. "Oh, no!" Despite her protest, she was smiling. "Can we at least unpack the sleeping bags first? We don't even have a bed!" Clark glanced around, then refined his vision so he could see inside the boxes. Lois watched him scan the room once quickly, then again, much slower. "Blast." "What?" "I lent them to Jimmy last week when he and his friend wanted to go camping for the weekend." Lois sighed. "Well, I guess we'll just have to keep unpacking." She reached for the nearest box. Clark picked up an extra large one. "Try this one, honey." Lois watched him with a skeptical look on her face as he slit the tape with a fingernail. "What's in this one?" "Our computers." He pulled out a mouse wrapped in a flyer advertising a salt- shaker collection for sale. "And..." He lifted a large monitor out, revealing the padding underneath. "Our blankets and comforter." Lois smiled. "Clark, just for that, I get to decide where your...hardware goes." "All of it, or just the input devices?" Lois pulled out a pillow from the box and threw it at him. "Put the computers upstairs in the guest room, and then we can discuss sleeping arrangements." "Sleep? Who said anything about sleep?" Clark zoomed upstairs with the computers before Lois could throw anything more breakable at him. Bed Pillows and a newspaper subscription solicitation Lois scanned the roomful of boxes. "What gets opened next?" She moved to a tall box near her and as she started to lift the box flaps, she was surprised when the whole box moved. It was incredibly light. "Hmmm...what's in you?" she said. She moved away a dust ruffle to find two queen-size down pillows still in their plastic wrappers. A note was attached to the top of one. To: Lois and Clark. May your heads always rest on clouds of softness. Love, Mom and Dad. Continued in part 5 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:34 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC: "IT'S US" Part 3 of 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's Us continued from part 2 ___________________ "And lucky for them, you were there." Clark nodded. "Yeah. The entire village was grateful. They wanted me to stay. I had become their 'lucky charm' I guess." "So, the statue ..." "Was a gift of appreciation from her father and the village." "And the picture?" "Her gift of appreciation." "How remote was this village?" "Not very. The closest town and photography studio was just a jitney ride down a bumpy road." Lois closed the photo album and pushed it toward Clark. "Put this in a safe place, sweetheart. I want to hear more about your travels and the other pictures ... later." Clark stood up and walked to an open box. "What about the statue?" "Who am I to say no to an entire village? We'll find a place for it ... somewhere." Clark grinned as he heard her low mutter. "Like in the guest room." a box of chocolate cookies and something red (not the cape) Clark looked inside the open box and a huge smile spread across his face. How can one tiny woman eat all of these chocolate cookies? he thought. He laughingly took a package out of the box. Carefully he opened it and took out three cookies. He was about to eat the last cookie when Lois came back into the room. "Chocolate! I smell chocolate." Lois looked around the room to find what only her nose told her was there. She began sniffing until she made her way to Clark and the now closed box. "Clark, I know I smell chocolate. Double dipped chocolate chip cookies to be exact." Clark had quickly stuffed the last cookie in his mouth as he saw her come towards him. He began chewing faster the closer she got. "''oney, I dn't mell any hocolat." Lois stared at her husband as he mumbled the words. A playful expression passed over her face as she leaned against him. "So, you don't smell anything chocolate, hmmm? Let me see what you have in your mouth." Lois reached up and pinched at his chin to open his mouth, but she felt his jaws begin to move at superspeed. "See, nothing there." Clark opened his mouth and Lois peeked inside. All she could see was his red tongue wiggling to and fro. "Well? Do you see anything?" he asked her. Lois took a step back and put her hands on her hips. "You know, I couldn't see anything after you chewed at superspeed. The only thing I now know to do is the taste test." A wicked glint passed from each as she raised both hands to place one on each of his cheeks. She pulled his head down until their lips met. Her soft lips closed over his. Her tongue began to move slowly across and over his, savoring the taste of him. A soft moan from deep in his throat escaped as she drew away. "I thought I loved double dipped chocolate chip cookies just as they are but I love them even more now. You added something even more to their delicious taste." They both smiled and were about to embrace when Jimmy and Perry came back into the room.. "Hey, break that up, you two!" something wicker and cooking utensils "Oh, come on, chief, give them a break. After all, they're newlyweds," Jimmy said as he walked over to the kitchen area and picked up a large wicker basket filled with spatulas, slotted spoons, and other cooking utensils. " Besides," he continued with a sly grin, "interrupting them is my job." Lois smirked in response, "Yes, and you're entirely too good at it if you ask me." "Look, you two lovebirds, I hate to hurry you along but I've got a truck half loaded with your stuff outside and a meter maid who keeps circling the block like a vulture. Maybe we can continue this at your new place?" "Sure, chief," Clark replied. "Just a few more things, I think. Who's watching the truck while you and Jimmy are up here?" "Ralph." "We'll be down in a minute." "Or less," Lois added. "I thought that might give you a little incentive," Perry said with a wink. "Come on, Jimmy." As Perry and Jimmy returned downstairs, Clark turned to Lois. "We'd better get down there. I can pop back a little later," he said, making the hand signal for flying, "and pick up everything else. Are you ready?" "I guess. We just need to pack up my fish tank in the jeep." "Why can't it go on the truck?" "Clark, it's practically a family heirloom. I inherited it from my Great-Aunt Hilda." "The fish too?" "Clark --" "I'm just teasing, honey. Let's finish loading the truck." living room decor and something broken After the short ride to Hyperion, Jimmy, Perry and Ralph gazed admiringly at Lois and Clark's new digs. "You kids have your work cut out filling this old place," Perry observed. "I feel like I'm at the bottom of a big empty." Jimmy smiled. "It's so cool, CK. Check it out, there's a banister!" "My sliding days are over," Clark laughed. Ralph looked around. "Needs painting." "We have some wallpaper picked out, Ralph, and thanks for noticing," Lois said. "Compromise wallpaper," Clark added. Perry smiled. "Ah, sounds familiar." "Perry, as much as I love muscle cars of the 60s, I didn't want to see that for the next five or ten years on the wall." Clark leaned on the mantle. "Lois said if I wanted that wallpaper she'd put it in a separate bedroom and I could have a bed shaped like a race car." "I have a bed ... um, had a bed like that," Ralph said, and then wandered quickly out of the room. Jimmy laughed. "So what was wrong with the wallpaper Lois picked out, CK?" "Nothing," Lois quickly interjected. "It was a black and white pattern." "It looked like the exterior of a Jersey cow," Clark smiled. "And the compromise?" Perry asked. "It looks like corrugated cardboard," Clark mumbled. Lois folded her arms. "But *nice* corrugated cardboard." "Speaking of which," Perry said. "We'll go get some more of the boxes and bring them up." The few small boxes that had been carried in Clark set to the far wall in anticipation of the new ones being brought up. Lois opened one marked simply "the stuff". "Clark, there's something broken all to pieces in here." "I know," he said softly. "It's a telephone." "You mean it *was* a telephone." "It was a telephone I smashed out of frustration when I tried to phone you and I got a busy signal." Lois looked up at her husband. "Remind me to put the alarm on my side of the bed." He knelt next to her. "It's when you were trying to decide between me, Superman, and Scardino. I wasn't in the best of moods at the time." Lois smiled and stroked his face. "It was always you. Dan didn't enter into it. Unfortunately, I have no tales of an island prince to regale you with. All my past loves were only royal pains." Clark finally laughed. "You were the only woman, royalty or not, worth all the frustration, honey." "Good," Lois said dipping back into the box. "Causing frustration is one of my best things." She pulled out a restaurant receipt with the words 'Forget it!' written on it. "I remember this." She shook her head. "You were good at that frustrating thing, too." Lois looked at the name tag he'd kept from her class reunion, the restaurant check from their first date, a flattened carton from Ralph's Pagoda, and .. "A penny?" "It's the one you didn't pick up when I teased you about checking the phone coin slot. I felt bad about that so I came back and got it. I knew I could give it to you one day. a stack of Sport Illustrated magazines and a bag of peanuts Lois laughed softly. "I can't believe you kept it all this time... you sentimental softie, you," she teased. Clark rolled his eyes. "Come on," he said simply, "we have a truck to unload." With five of them working, it didn't take long to get all the boxes and furniture moved from the truck into the brownstone. At some point along the way, Lois called and ordered pizzas and drinks, which they ate sitting on the living room floor or perched precariously on boxes. As they finished up the last of the pizzas, Jimmy said, "Well, guys, you need some help unpacking?" Continued in part 4 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:31 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC: "IT'S US" Part 2 of 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's Us continued from part 1 ___________ Color of the living room walls and Batman comics Lois rolled her eyes in disgust. "Oh for crying out loud," she said. "Clark, we're in the middle of moving -- we don't have time to deal with villains or clones or amnesia or Lex or-" Clark grinned and stopped her babbling with a quick kiss. "It'll be okay, Lois," he assured her. "Why would he want to come back here?" "Famous last words..." growled Lois, only partially appeased. She picked up another box and began pulling books off a shelf. After a moment of packing in grumpy silence, she mumbled, "Sorry, Clark... I just... I just don't want anything to interrupt today, you know?" "I know." He smiled at her. "So have you decided what color we want to paint the walls?" "Well...." Lois hesitated. "What?" Clark prodded her. "I was thinking maybe we could do wallpaper instead of paint...." "I thought we decided that painting the walls was safer after our discussions about wallpaper," Clark said with a quizzical look. Lois shrugged, "I know but---" Clark nodded easily. " That's okay. It should take me about two minutes to do the whole place. So all we ha--" "No, Clark!" Lois interrupted. "I want us to do it together. Slow." "Slow." Clark stared at her as if she'd grown a second head. "Why?" Lois scuffed her foot around sheepishly. "Well, I was reading this book-" she poked through the box she'd just packed and pulled one out to wave at him, "and it talks about couples doing stuff together in their first place - " "Lois, I can think of a lot more interesting things to do with you than wallpaper," Clark grinned. Lois made a face at him. "You have a one track mind, did you know that, Clark?" "Do you really object?" "No," she grinned back at him. Clark headed for the bedroom. Lois watched him suspiciously. "Clark, where are you going? We don't have time for that *now*!" she protested. "Heh! now who has the one track mind? I'm going to get some stuff out of the closet!" "Oh.... sorry...." When Clark returned from the bedroom, he noticed Lois pulling a stack of slim volumes from the bottom shelf of the bookcase. "Whatcha got there, Lois?" he asked. "I don't remember noticing those before...." Lois blushed. "Just.... stuff..." she mumbled. "Come on, Lois, give!" She glared up at him. "It's my Batman comics, okay? Are you happy now?" Clark's eyebrows shot up to his hairline. "Batman comics?" As Clark started to chuckle, Lois glared at him some more then suddenly grinned. "That's right, just laugh at me! Your turn's coming!" *the suits* and Video tapes of the Ivory Tower "Oh really?" Clark's smile changed into a challenging grin. "Oh, yes..." Lois sashayed towards him. "But not now." She veered towards the front door at the sound of knocking, trotting lightly up the steps. She found Perry standing there, Jimmy hot on his heels. "You're early." "I didn't take..." Perry began. "Well, I was wrong about..." Jimmy blurted out "...that...guy..." He trailed off. "Sorry, Chief." Perry eased off his glare at Jimmy, and turned his attention back to Lois. "I've got the van out front, if you're ready to start loading." "Thanks, Perry." Lois smiled. "We've only got a few more boxes to tape up and then I think we're set." Perry walked over to the nearest full box, clearly labeled "Clark's Stuff", and peered in. He stared at it for a moment, then, "You sure you want this, Clark?" Clark peered in and blushed. "Gee, CK, I didn't know," Jimmy piped up. "That's an old box!" Clark started to protest. "Aw, c'mon, Clark, you know you love 'The Ivory Tower'!" Lois held onto an escaping giggle by the skin of her teeth. "It's your favorite show!" Lois lost hold of the giggle and it slipped out as Perry and Jimmy caught on. Jimmy grinned at Clark's exasperation. "Say, CK, y'know when I called to tell you about Tom Colby?" Clark nodded. "Well..." Jimmy suddenly couldn't look Clark in the eyes. "I was wrong--the guy who told me about it said Tim Colby, and well..." "That's ok, Jimmy." Before Clark could get too understanding and sympathetic, Lois shoved a box at Jimmy. "Here. As lovely as all this cardboard is, I'll bet it's prettier at our new place." "And you..." she whispered to Clark as Perry and Jimmy exited with their boxes, "need to pack your suits before they see them!" a photograph of an old boyfriend or girlfriend and the statue from Borneo Clark looked toward the door and saw that Perry and Jimmy were already outside. He tossed a quick wink at Lois and swooshed around the kitchen, returning before Lois could finish her giggle, with a box in his hands. It was firmly sealed against prying eyes. "There. All done." Lois shook her head and smirked. "You do come in handy once in a while." Clark grinned. Placing the box with the others, he walked over to Lois, intent on taking that smirk off her face. He had just reached her side when she straightened up, holding an photo album in her hands. Uh oh, he thought. "Um, Lois? Let me put that away ..." His voice trailed off as Lois walked to the dining table and opened the album. She looked at the pictures. Some were dog-eared and some had the brown sepia tones that a professional photographer might use. She continued to turn the pages. Her eyes focused on one particular picture and its inscription. Lois read it aloud. "Clark, For everything that you mean to me. Always." She raised her head and looked at her husband with raised eyebrows. "Who is she, Clark? She's beautiful." Clark walked over to stand alongside his wife and looked at the picture. He let out a long sigh and touched the plastic that protected all the photographs. Turning to face Lois, he answered her question. "Someone I met in my travels, honey. A long time ago." A soft smile played on his lips. "An island princess." Lois heard the tone in his voice and smiled. There wasn't any jealousy on her part. She knew exactly where Clark's heart lay. But she was curious. This was someone from Clark's past, from his travels. She knew about Lana Lang and Rachel Harris, but she didn't know about anyone else. "Obviously, you have some fond memories of her." Clark looked at Lois. He reached out and tucked a strand of hair behind her ear. "Yeah. She was a friend in a place where I didn't have any." "Did she love you?" Clark shrugged. "Maybe. Maybe I loved her a little too." He stared intently into Lois' dark eyes. "But not the way that I love you." Lois smiled and brought her hand up to his. Holding his touch against her face, she reassured him. "I know that. What was her name?" Clark chuckled. "It's difficult to pronounce. But it translates to 'Beautiful Gift.' " "Tell me about her." They sat at the dining table and Clark began his story. "I was traveling all over the world, trying to find where I could fit in. I always seemed to gravitate to the Pacific and the islands there." He took Lois' hand. "You'd love it there, honey. The people are so warm and open. So friendly. They accepted me even though I wasn't one of them." Lois returned his smile. "I'm glad you found some peace. And even more glad that you decided not to stay there. Where in the Pacific?" "Actually, more towards Southeast Asia. Borneo to be exact." "Borneo? As in ..." Lois' gaze left Clark's face and settled on an object now leaning against a wall. Clark laughed out loud. "Yes. As in that statue." Lois' eyes returned to Clark's face. They twinkled with merriment. "This is gonna be a good story." "It's pretty short, honey. The princess and her father needed some help and ..." Continued in part 3 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:46:23 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: NEW FANFIC ALERT: IT'S US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone ;), The IRC round robin writers have finished another story and it's my pleasure to post it to the fanfic list. It's a waffy story set between 'Brutal Youth and 'The People v. Lois Lane' and it chronicles events as Lois and Clark pack and move to Hyperion Street. This story was something of a departure from our standard writing format. In addition to our standard 20 minute time limit ,each writer was randomly assigned objects, topics or situations, that had to be incorporated into the story framework. That's why we called it a 'challenge' round robin ;). We enjoyed writing this story and we hope you enjoy it too. Comments are welcome, honest , be they good, bad, or even typographical or grammatical, since the story hasn't hit the Archives ;). But please *no* rewrites. We've all been down that road before ;). Cheers, Eileen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:28:53 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Annette Ciotola Subject: OT: LnC CD Rom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hiya's again and sorry for taking up space again. I just wanted to let you all know that the MAC CDrom has been tested successfully. So those of you waiting for the OK on it here it is.. For info email me privately @ LnCCDrom@aol.com Thanks Anne :) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:33:40 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-26 17:27:25 EDT, AMCiotola@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 98-08-26 13:50:14 EDT, you write: << However, I am working (slowly, very slowly) on a story which describes Clark's experiences during the New Krypton war, and his reaction to the violence he sees/participates in. It's a prequel to my nfic Winners >> ooooooooo, /me locks Kathy in a room with just her, her computer, and her fav drink... Anne >> and lots of chocolate, Anne, don't forget that! The sugar and caffeine will help . --Laurie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:58:07 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Crystal Wimmer Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/26/98 1:50:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, miracles4me@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > Do you think that Clark could > kill Lois? If he had to be the one to make the choice and had to do it > with his own two hands? Lois or the world. How would that effect him? > I don't think he could... I can't give a long and detailed explaination, siting all the reasons from the show... but it's purely a feeling. I doubt he could survive losing her, much less being the cause of it... I just can't see it. In fact, I honestly think that if it came down to a decision between losing Lois and the end of the world... ie saving lois would cause the rest of the world to be lost... I really think Lois would be saved. I am reminded of the many times he tells her he cannot live without her... the times that he changed the rules to save her... and yet, to save her from LL Junior, he *did* kill her (granted, he was fairly certain that he could bring her back) as he had done in ATAI... lets face it, he only did it then because he had a fair shot at bringing her back (and then, his *parents* were on the line). Well... gee, this brings on a whole new line of thought... could Lois sacrafice Clark to save the world? She wasn't willing to in MOSB, but what about 4th season L&C? What do you think? Crystal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:08:22 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: No Name Available Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-08-26 22:00:06 EDT, JCWimmer@AOL.COM writes: << Well... gee, this brings on a whole new line of thought... could Lois sacrafice Clark to save the world? She wasn't willing to in MOSB, but what about 4th season L&C? What do you think? >> No, but each would sacrifice themselves to save the other and the world... --Laurie (who thinks the heat has befuddled her brain) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:54:32 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Farah Meitzen Chisham Subject: LISTSERV WEB INTERFACE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If anyone is interested in searching for previous posts, stories that was posted on this list since it was started, you may go to this URL: http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/loiscla-general-l.html If anything horrible happens, or you can't read this web page, please let me know. Thanks! farah :) fchisham@indiana.edu farah :) fchisham@indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:43:35 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" note: this does not mean I'm catching up on my mail, it means I'm reading out of order :) At 11:54 AM 8/26/1998 -0500, Kathy B. wrote: [snip] >The question that immediately came to my mind was "What would the show's >Clark do in this situation?" Would he kill to save Lois? Would he be >driven to a nervous breakdown if he did? (like the comics' version was when >he killed) > >My personal feeling is that our Clark would have killed in this situation. >Clark said it himself, "if I lost you, I would be losing myself". I agree and I'd go by his reaction in Contact. I didn't like the reaction because it was illogical and baseless, but then I don't think we had the above explanation from CK yet on which to base the agreement. The scene: Superman arrives to stop Fences's evil plan. He does so by destroying part of the machine [unlike the better solution later of simply unplugging the vibrowhammy ;)] The "solution" to stopping Fences isn't this simple, though, as Fences warns that the machine is now out of control. Everyone panics in comic slow motion. This includes Lois who has, naturally, followed to get the story and "to help." In the ensuing panic and explosion, she is knocked unconscious, she is hurt. Superman, cradling her, reacts by growling at Fences "this is all your fault!" Fences cringes. We assume Superman rushes Lois to the hospital. Well, of course, her being injured is not all Fences's fault. He didn't invite Superman or Lois to his world domination party kick off. At most he expected Superman might turn up if he wasn't distracted by Lois's hypnotic antics, but Fences did plan carefully for the distraction. As it was Lois who knowingly threw herself into danger, she must accept a great deal (+95%) of the responsibility for getting hurt. Perhaps Clark blamed himself though for this (his mind was probably full of "I should have"s), but the burden was too big for him to shoulder. He in no way could blame Lois, she was innocent of all wrong in his eyes regardless of the evidence. So he blamed Fences. His reaction told me that had Lois been killed, Fences et al. would have been next to die or at least been severely discomfitted. I'll add that I think CK would go nuts in a case like this--but not from guilt for having hurt Fences et al. but from not foreseeing that Lois would come and not protecting her. This is, after all, why he broke up with her at the end of that episode. None of it made very much sense, did it? Further based on this episode and on the deaths in Ordinary People and CK's ho-hum reaction there, I don't think he would get this upset if others died because he could not react or did not react properly. I'm not sure how to fit in his failure to react properly to Lex making off with Lois in front of him in DJ, but none of that made sense, either. Debby Debby@swcp.com whose glad no third season shows are in my own personal continuity :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:34:46 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Carolyn Schnall Subject: Re: LISTSERV WEB INTERFACE In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980827025432.00725c80@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Farah: I just wanted to publicly thank you so much for this post. As you may know, I'm fairly new here and am really delighted to have access to all this info that predates me. I'm sure there are others out there who share my appreciation. Thanks, Carolyn cschnall@mail.med.cornell.edu >If anyone is interested in searching for previous posts, >stories that was posted on this list since it was started, >you may go to this URL: > >http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/loiscla-general-l.html > >If anything horrible happens, or you can't >read this web page, please let me know. Thanks! > >farah :) >fchisham@indiana.edu > > >farah :) >fchisham@indiana.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:52:07 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Kathy Brown Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist In-Reply-To: <19980826204817.25792.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 1:48 PM -0700 8/26/98, K.C. Boyd wrote: > Do you think that Clark could >kill Lois? If he had to be the one to make the choice and had to do it >with his own two hands? Lois or the world. How would that effect him? I can't think of a situation where this would become necessary, so it's a bit hard for me to answer objectively. I can't think of anything that would make him kill her. But to answer the question, no, I don't think there would be anything that could make him kill her. I think Clark would let the world go to hell before he'd do anything to cause Lois's death, especially with his own two hands. The only storyline that might work would be a "soulmates" type story where Clark must let Lois die to save the future world or their future children (like the Star Trek episode where Kirk has to let his girlfriend be killed). Even under these conditions, I think Clark would say "we'll make our own history", protect Lois, and let the chips fall where they may. Kathy ______________________ Kathy Brown kbrown@webmart.net KathyB on IRC ______________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:58:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "C.T.YIM" Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDD20E.41EA6F60" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDD20E.41EA6F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Brown [SMTP:kbrown@WEBMART.NET] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 8:52 PM To: LOISCLA-GENERAL-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: Would Clark kill? twist At 1:48 PM -0700 8/26/98, K.C. Boyd wrote: > Do you think that Clark could >kill Lois? If he had to be the one to make the choice and had to do it >with his own two hands? Lois or the world. How would that effect him? =20 But to answer the question, no, I don't think there would be anything = that could make him kill her. I think Clark would let the world go to hell before he'd do anything to cause Lois's death, especially with his own = two hands. Kathy ---------------------------------------------------- True, but what about Lois in all this? 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I'm of two minds about this: a) happy my proofreaders find so many of them... b) appalled that there are so many to find and each proofer finds different ones...! :) Debby Debby@swcp.com who has to actually write something *soon*! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 17:13:10 -0600 Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: Debby Subject: Re: A *New* type of Round Robin In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:14 PM 8/24/1998 -0500, you wrote: >At 4:43 PM -0400 8/24/98, Cristin J Whitley wrote: >> I would like to try the first >>teens only RR on Friday, September 4th at 5:00 EST time. Will mountain time (3pm) and pacific time (2pm) Folcs be home from school yet? Will you do some stories about younger CK and Lois, as you all have a good perspective on that? Debby Debby@swcp.com not that I have time to *read* anything... but I have a great big hard drive now to store stories them on :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:38:00 EDT Reply-To: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" Sender: "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Fanfic" From: "Eileen F. Ray" Subject: L&C Fanfic Session August 29, 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Everyone, Well, skip week is over and w hope you'll be able to join us Saturday, August 29, 1998, for our fanfic session. In this week's story it's after Battleground Earth and Lois and Clark are trying to plan their wedding. But unfortunately, as Lois would say there is always something ;). *Someone* has gone back in time and changed the course of American History and in doing so has destroyed the world as Lois and Clark know it. It's up to them and H. G. Wells to set things right again. We would still like to hear from you if you have any story premises of your own that you would like us to explore together. You can either email them to me at: eraygun@aol.com or better still, just bring your ideas with you when you join us this Saturday or for our weekly "story bouncing" sessions on Tuesdays on #L&CFicOrg, starting around 9:30 PM EDT. We generally meet Saturdays starting at 3 PM EDT and try to start writing fairly soon thereafter. You can come and join the fun at any time, however. We are usually there for several hours since writing a story takes time. Since #L&CFanfic is on occasion "invite only" please message if you want to join us. If an official "inviter" is designated, we will let you know. Some of us should be hanging out on #Loiscla. A note on procedure here ;) : When people need to be caught up on the story in progress after being bounced off IRC or just joining the session late, please try and avoid pasting the story directly into the channel window. Please do that in a private message or dcc-chat window instead. Hope to see you all there! Cheers, Eileen Eraygun@aol.com